Apple robs Google, Joe Gebbia goes to the White House, and Ikea's CEO on what matters more than profit

23:56Mark Wilson:Well, Juvencio, obviously we had a chance to connect when you first took over your position as CEO. And it's still early days for you. I know you've sort of done a tour, a worldwide tour, looking at what you wanted to update with IKEA. And I guess I would love to start, though, a little farther back. Because all of us have an IKEA touchpoint. I think that's why it's such a fascinating brand to cover. I bought my first IKEA furniture when I was in college and sort of decked out my dorm, literally like it was out of the Fight Club ad. I mean, like it was a full-out IKEA catalog sort of installation.

24:33Mark Wilson:But I'm wondering, what was your first piece of IKEA furniture?

24:38Juvencio Maeztu:I was not working at IKEA, and my wife was working at IKEA. It was probably in 1994 when we got married, and I bought almost an entire home. At that time, it was a small apartment in Madrid. We didn't have too much money. And then we bought almost everything at Ikea.

24:59Mark Wilson:Do you remember specifically any particular pieces that stood out that really wooed you?

25:04Juvencio Maeztu:Yeah, I think one of the furniture I have, it is not that one, but one of the furniture has been more at home, has been the sofa hectare, the three-seater. And I still have it, not the original one, because then I sold it secondhand before I moved to another place and I bought another one. But it has been with me more than 20 years now.

25:29Mark Wilson:What do you love about that?

25:31Juvencio Maeztu:It's a speaker of the democratic design at IKEA. You know, democratic design is about five things coming together. It has to be design. It has to be the functionality. It has to be the quality. It has to be the sustainability and it has to be the affordability. And this is a fantastic speaker of this five-dimensional democratic design. But you know what I love the most? It's the siesta time for me in summertime.

26:04Mark Wilson:That is a distinctly Spanish attribute to that couch, I would say. It is. I do love that. Ektor, perfect for the siesta.

26:13Juvencio Maeztu:Yes, exactly. It's not meant to be as a sleeping function, but I use it in summertime.

26:19Mark Wilson:I love the choice of the Ektor because I say this with a lot of love. Not the coolest piece of IKEA furniture, but a very kind of classic. It's classic. This is, you know, like a very classic sofa that looks like you could sort of drop a new drop cover onto it or sort of anything else.

26:34Juvencio Maeztu:It's exactly what you say, Mark. It was five years ago. I had outdoor under a canopy in my summer house. And then the cover was a bit tired. And it was five years ago that I bought a new cover. And it's still as good as 20 years back.

26:50Mark Wilson:Oh, wow. That's fantastic. I mean, I think that's really a selling point of IKEA is that so many of your products do have this long lifespan that you can update. I mean, just to go back to my own first experience with IKEA, when I was in college, we did not have an IKEA. We had to go to Target. I went to the University of Nebraska. There was no IKEA in Nebraska at that point. But then when I moved away, I discovered what IKEA was. And it was mind-blowing to me that you could go to this one place and as a fresh out of college professional intern, really, I could afford to buy a bed. That's a pretty mind-blowing proposition, I would say.

27:32Juvencio Maeztu:Yeah. And the important thing is exactly, Liz, you go to the very essence of the business idea because we said the care vision is to create a better life for the many people. And then home, it's the most important place in the world for us. So we are in the life at home business and you can hardly achieve that if you are not affordable. So for us, the many people inspire us and challenge us to keep prices low. Otherwise, you cannot reach the many people. And this is very meaningful that everybody, regardless of the size of the wallet, has the right to have a better life at home.

28:14Mark Wilson:While we're on the affordability topic, you know, in 2024, IKEA dropped global product prices by 10%, which I believe, at least in what I've read, was the largest annual price drop in company history. I'm just curious, looking back, given where we are now with inflation, with tariffs, was that a good decision?

28:35Juvencio Maeztu:It was extremely good. It was more than 2 billion euros. And why do I say this? because for us, the way we achieve our goal is not only revenue money, it's also revenue measuring quantities. It's about how can we be present in as many homes as possible? Because that was the wish of the founder, that as many homes as possible should have IKEA. So for us, quantities, it's as important and even more as revenue in money. And that's why this last year, for example, we had a slight decrease in the revenue, but we had an increase in quantities. And this makes us really proud. And then, of course, that comes with a beautiful challenge that you have to optimize the whole P &L structure and the whole cost structure to be able to keep running the business.

29:34Juvencio Maeztu:Otherwise, you cannot run a sustainable and long-term business. I think it was a right decision, and we are inspired to keep doing that because the world will require more affordability. And then the second dimension of the affordability is the sustainability because for us, the volume has to be in a sustainable way. And we are committed to the Paris Agreement. we have reduced more than 30 % in absolute terms, the scope one, two, and three, our footprint, despite of the 24 % in growth. And why do I say this, that this twin sister, affordability and sustainability has to come together? Because sustainability can never be at the scale if it is not affordable.

30:26Juvencio Maeztu:Sustainability cannot be a luxury for the few. It has to be affordable for the many, because the day that the sustainability is affordable, then we can really make good for the planet, but good for the wallet of the many people.

30:42Mark Wilson:I mean, one, I couldn't agree more that really premium and luxury sustainable objects are almost an oxymoron, right? Like, if it's something only a few people can afford, then it's never going to move the needle in a significant way. Like they might be important to prototype a new technology or to sort of move design, you know, the broader approach to design forward, right? But it doesn't really matter if 100 people buy something versus a million. I do think your perspective, you know, IKEA's perspective about moving units being as sort of as important as profitability is unique because, and it's really tied intrinsically to the fact that you're not a publicly traded company, right?

31:23Mark Wilson:Like a U.S. company couldn't talk to us like in the same way, answering to the shareholders as they have to. And, you know, I'm wondering if you could speak a bit more to that, because I feel like right now we're seeing so many companies that are doing innovative things sort of answering to Wall Street all the time and making compromises that are, I think, upsetting to consumers.

31:44Juvencio Maeztu:I think it's a good point, Mario. And I want to reflect on this because I like to say that it's good business to be a good business. And the fact that we are owned privately and we are not in the stock exchange is not at all an excuse, you know, where I mean to compromise profit or this type of things. For us, the company is designed for purpose. And what do I mean? The founder, when he was a bit younger than me, was remarkable. He donated the company to the foundation. We are privately owned by foundation. And what does it mean? That then we start with IKEA Vision to create a better life for many people.

32:21Juvencio Maeztu:Then we start with the business, as I said before, to create an affordable life at home. Then we do this with a lot of requirements. So we do this with requirement in the in the sustainability side. So we create we we are determined to create a positive impact and to reduce not only the carbon footprint, but also to create good impact, positive impact in the planet. Then the second thing is that all the standards from the social point of view is the pay gap in between gender or it's about diversity and inclusion or it is about a labor condition in the supply chain or it's about gender equality.

33:03Juvencio Maeztu:So when you go through all this, because for us, diversity is a way to make better business. So it's not only an ethical dimension. We are proving that diversity and inclusion give us better business as well. Then, of course, it's the taxes we pay. We're in the 30, 32 % corporate tax, which is also remarkable. Then 85 % last year remained in the company of the net profit. And 15 % is a dividend that goes to the shareholder. And this is a way for the Inka Foundation to support the charitable activities for the IKEA Foundation. So there is zero euro, zero, that goes to the private pocket of any private shareholder.

33:47Juvencio Maeztu:So somehow the whole system is built for purpose and is built to support the long term of the company and the IKEA vision. And what is the best? Someone asked me, yeah, but you are not in the stock exchange. You have a bit more ability to have a long-term decision. And my answer is right. And we have the big challenger in the system, which is the low price. We committed to the founder to keep low price on a permanent basis. That's why you need, you cannot have low prices, you don't have low cost. and low cost is a way to build a resilient business for the future. So it's actually very inspiring.

34:30Juvencio Maeztu:And this is why I like to say that it's good business to be good business.

34:34Mark Wilson:The idea of having the mandate to reach and affect a lot of people does feel universal too, right? Like IKEA is a brand globally appealing to low cost. I think especially now it's still an attractive proposition as it was 20 years ago or 40 years ago. What I'm curious about is actually some of these different international markets and how they are different rather than, I think, simply the same. Your career, I believe, started as a store manager in Spain. You clearly have worked your way up pretty effectively. But I'm kind of fascinated from your CV about your time in India. You were CEO of the business in India for, I think, seven years.

35:14Mark Wilson:And I believe you actually brought the IKEA. You're part of that team that brought IKEA to India. That's a fascinating market. It's a massive market. And I'm curious about, like, how did you have to tune the knobs of IKEA? How did you sort of take some of that universality? Sure, but, like, how did you have to adjust to that market? And how did you make sure you fit?

35:32Juvencio Maeztu:I think it's a pretty good question. Because initially, when I said yes to India, I had not been in India before. I was a bit brave to say yes. I did a look and see with my wife. I did a look and see with my wife. But the beginning was a bit overwhelming. It was my wife and my two kids and eight suitcases. And then I had the task to open India. And that was the only thing I had in my job description at that time. And then, of course, you can see India from the differences or any country from the differences perspective. But the more I went into the depths, two things happened. First, I became more humble and then I became more determined.

36:16Juvencio Maeztu:And let me explain what I mean. I became more humble because you cannot come to any country. It doesn't matter if it is India, it's the US, it is Spain, it doesn't matter. You cannot come to a new country with your prejudgment or your pre-ideas or your biases. You have to embrace the country as it is. And then the listening is much more difficult than speaking. and coming to a new country is a deep, deep commitment of listening and listening from the heart, not only from the head. And it helped me massively. I decided not to have consultant at that time and not to have company supporting. I decided us to experience the depth of India at that time.

37:01And that meant that I chose to speak with many people and to listen to many people.

37:07Juvencio Maeztu:And then you start to see that country, in this case, India from inside, not from outside. And then you start to understand things. Remember, we set up a dark store. We imported more than a thousand articles. And not a proper store because we didn't open for the consumer. But we invited hundreds of people for one week, not to sell, but also to listen to them.

37:32Mark Wilson:So you invited people into the store with about a thousand IKEA goods and you were basically like, give us feedback.

37:39Juvencio Maeztu:Exactly. It was a temporary location.

37:41Mark Wilson:So you wanted to see what they were buying, right? Exactly. Like this is in part what this was too.

37:44Juvencio Maeztu:Yeah. At the end of the day, the IKEA product is based on deep understanding on the needs of people at home. And we love food in IKEA, so Indians. We love children in IKEA, so Indians. We love value for money, so Indians. We love multifunctional home, even more Indians. And then at the end of the day, we found that there were many similarities. And then the second thing is that we were about to launch the prices. And then I said to my team, have we done everything to secure we have low prices? Because you only have one chance to open a new market, even more such a market of 1.4 billion people.

38:28Right.

38:28Mark Wilson:So if you were perceived off the bat as sort of inexpensive or like a good value or an okay value was really critical to your long-term success.

38:38Juvencio Maeztu:It was critical because if you have little money in your wallet, you even want the product to last longer. You are even putting more demand. So it's not true that low income means low quality. You are even putting more demand on the quality of the product. And that helped us to really connect with more people. And then by listening to people, we went to different places and met different people. And then we decided at that time to launch more than 2 ,000 products of less than 200 rupees at that time, which was a remarkable effort. So I think the good thing of entering a new country, and especially if it is outside Europe, is that it helps you to be more humble and more determined.

39:26Juvencio Maeztu:And both are needed to lead companies in the future. In the future, we need to lead companies with high level of humbleness. and then we also have to be more determined to believe even deeper in the things that are critical for the future.

39:42Mark Wilson:I'm thinking a lot about our last conversation. We had talked about sort of IKEA's growth being relatively stagnant, right? Like not sinking, not growing a bunch year over year. But I guess I'm curious, you look at the market like India, you said India was one of your most important markets and China was one of your most important markets. And I'm curious from your experience incident that you've had and looking to China, are we going to see sort of a strategic shift in those countries? Or I'm curious what that would be. Like, what is the opportunity there to still be unlocked by a company as large as yours that I assume has already localized a lot of its products for the market, is already expanding quite a bit in those markets?

40:22Mark Wilson:Where do you go from here? And I guess, what's unique about those two sort of giant markets in particular to you in terms of opportunity?

40:31Juvencio Maeztu:First, I want to say, Marta, first we have a growth opportunities everywhere. So we have opportunity, of course, Europe has been our home market for many years, but we can still grow in Europe significantly. And then we can still grow, of course, in the US, which is a very important market for us, and we can grow in Asia as well. So we have opportunities to grow everywhere. And this is, of course, my focus as well. Then in the Asian markets, you have to be relevant in the range, but also you have to be relevant in the way you merchandise and you connect this and you distribute this with these products.

41:14Juvencio Maeztu:And then, of course, the power of the platform or the powers of the digital, very relevant in this market and you need to find a formula which is both physical and online. But at some point, people need still to socialize. We are operating an omnichannel company. Today, 30 % of the IKEA sales are online. And someone asked me, what is your goal? I said, I don't have a goal in online, in offline, because this is for me the outcome of interacting in an omnichannel way with IKEA. My goal is, of course, to create omnichannel capabilities and inspire many people to keep coming to IKEA.

41:59Mark Wilson:Speaking of China and stores in China, IKEA recently announced that it would be closing seven big box stores in China while opening 10 smaller format stores in the country. Just really curious about what this says about IKEA's broader strategy going forward in terms of what these store experiences are going to look like and if that's unique to China or if that's going to be applicable globally.

42:24Juvencio Maeztu:No, as always, we have today more than 500 IKEA stores. We welcome 736 million physical visitors and more than 4 million online. And then in our process, we will do fine tuning and we will close a store which maybe are not fit for purpose of the future. And we'll keep opening because the store is a story of growth. We'll keep opening more physical stores in different countries. And then some years ago, we only had the big IKEA blue box. And now in the last year, we have started to have inner city stores, so a store more downtown. but also we are having other formats, which is a smaller size where we can really go to location where maybe they are not big enough to have a big IKEA store, but they are big enough to have a smaller IKEA store.

43:24Juvencio Maeztu:And we are also expanding in this way. And then the important thing, of course, is the fulfillment network that comes with that behind. The good thing of the IKEA store is that they are also warehouses. And we will do more of this, not only in China or in India, we'll do in Europe, we'll do in U.S., in order to find ways to connect with the customers in the best possible way.

43:51Mark Wilson:I'd love to talk a bit about products because I do feel like just we're all drawn to products for anything, right? Like it is the exciting part of companies to me a lot of the time. What was interesting to me is this year, I believe, was IKEA's first time at the Consumer Electronics Show at CES. And especially in the U.S. press, like you made a lot of waves. You know, you released a few affordable electronics that a lot of people were talking about. There was a$10 Bluetooth speaker. The reviewers loved how it sounded. You released a USB charger that basically, you know, your stock sort of iPhone charger or something.

44:24Mark Wilson:But instead of charging $20 like Apple does, you charged four. That's very appreciative as the chargers no longer come in the boxes, as I think we all know. And this all followed a revamp of 21 different smart home products. I've followed IKEA's sort of experiments with gadgetry over the years quite a bit. And I'd say a lot of it's been a struggle, right? Like some stuff looked good on paper, some stuff didn't really work out as well as I hoped. Some stuff seemed, you know, seemed brilliant, but nothing really seemed to scale in sort of the cultural consciousness that I saw. And so I'm curious, looking at what we're seeing now, where do you want to take IKEA in terms of personal electronics?

45:03Mark Wilson:What is your vision for this category moving forward?

45:06Juvencio Maeztu:I like your commercial skills, Mark. Talking about the products, I should employ you. Everything is about life at home. So at the end of the day, an IKEA product, it has to be good in itself and it has to fit in the context of a home. and this is where we really cracked the code. For example, if I just started with the lighting, we were the first company who went fooling with the LED bulbs.

45:35Mark Wilson:That probably is the most significant sort of thing you did at scale in terms of like moving the needle and electronics.

45:41Juvencio Maeztu:Exactly, because I remember that time a normal incandescent bulb, it was three euros at that time. The normal LED was 10 and we decided we go for one euro at that time. one euro, because without scale, you cannot have sustainability. And that was a big step. Now we have the ability that you can connect the bulbs, LED bulbs, to have a more efficient home, because now we have electronic devices that you can speak to the different bulbs. And then you have the, the, and then you can connect with the app. And then you can set different lighting mode both for making your life at home better and then save money.

46:27Juvencio Maeztu:Because then you learn and we help customers to use lighting in a way that is serve a functional lighting, but also a general lighting. So we make life at home better and more efficient. Another example is the air purifier. And that started when I was in India and they would say, you know, we need to find a way that we can have a more healthy life inside the home by having cleaner air. And then I found the normal air purifier extremely expensive myself. As a customer, I said, we need to have that in that range. And then the air purifier now can set an incredible price point. And some of them are integrated into the coffee table.

47:12Juvencio Maeztu:So what you have is a coffee table, but in reality, it's an air purifier. So what I try to say is that the more that IKEA can connect with home phone machine and life at home, the better. And this is the angle that we are taking.

47:28Mark Wilson:Life at home as your filter is kind of interesting because it means to me that you would never make like a smartphone. I'm trying to think like of that line between the electronics we only use at home and the electronics we use elsewhere. And it does feel somewhat specific in terms of like the competition you'd be willing to get into.

47:46Juvencio Maeztu:Yeah. And as I said, the beginning, for us, home is the most important place in the world. And we are in the business of life at home. And it's important that you make a clear choice. Because this is where you can cement your competitive advantage. We have a massive, massive knowledge and competence on how to solve the needs, the frustration, and the dreams for a better life at home. And we have to stay there.

48:14Mark Wilson:I do think IKEA is unique in that it has such immense scale that bringing technology into your product offerings can be impactful in a way that a, you know, a technology focused company alone really cannot be. I mean, you just have a completely different perspective on how to integrate technology into products, right? Like an air purifier in a coffee table. Like the average tech company might not think to do that and probably would not execute on that. They can't sell it with a straight face for sure, right? Like in a way that people actually would want to have in their home. I mean, that's a question and more a comment.

48:55Mark Wilson:And I think it just sort of speaks to the ambitions of IKEA as a technology company in addition to a furnishing company.

49:03Juvencio Maeztu:I agree. And technology, another thing that's important. It does not only apply to microchips and this type of thing. Technology also applies the way that the products are designed and the products are built. Take for example, an IKEA mattress. An IKEA mattress comes for 10 years guarantee at least, 10 years guarantee. And the way that the spring or the foam or the different layers are built, the way that is designed in such a way there's so much thinking behind. or the way that we optimize the resources to build an IKEA product and at the same time be committed to the sustainability target. Because it's difficult to combine both sustainability and affordability, and you need massive level of technology.

49:56Juvencio Maeztu:I like to have an expansive way of thinking with technology. It's not only electronics, it's about how you can develop of furniture that can have better function for the people and at the same time have lower carbon footprint for the planet.

50:14Mark Wilson:So what can we expect from IKEA in this space going forward? Anything you can share with us?

50:19Juvencio Maeztu:I think what we can expect is that, and I'm going to be generic in the answer because it's the deeper belief I have, we can expect a massive commitment with many people. And then we can expect that we will keep making a range that fits your budget. And then we can provide solution for homes today. I am traveling to many countries in the world and housing costs is not going cheaper. It's going more expensive all over the world. House size is getting smaller. And then even in many places, home for many people is just renting one single room in a big house. So this is exactly when IKEA is extremely committed, but then we can provide solutions for a better life at home, regardless of the size of your home or if it is just a bedroom.

51:19Juvencio Maeztu:So we can expect even more commitment in the future to the needs of the many people. And then, of course, the IKEA range has to always be satisfying that. At the same time, the IKEA range can be used in many different ways. I was having a nice, we had a fan the other day in an IKEA store. We are talking, there is, I don't know if you have seen, it's an IKEA bag that is used for, it's called ISTA, and it's used for food storage. because of course we are, we want to support customers to prolong the life of the food and to reduce the food waste. And then this is a fantastic, it's called ISTA. And then we are talking the other day, I said, what can you do this with this bag?

52:09Juvencio Maeztu:And then of course it's food storage. Yeah, but it's also the food when your children go to school, but it's also the toiletries when you go to the airport. And it's also the Lego pieces when you have children at home and you don't know where to save the storage. And it's also the way to keep with swimming wear when we go to the swimming pool. So what I try to say with this small example is that IKEA is about providing solutions for the many people at affordable price.

52:42Mark Wilson:It feels like through that lens, if IKEA is all about life at home and solidifying that life and a life that is growing, I think, more expensive, as you said about housing prices and everything else. Is your competition not so much other home companies as it is all life outside of the home?

52:58Juvencio Maeztu:I love that question, Mark. When I say what is your competitor, you can have a traditional way of competition, which is companies operating in the same business, in the same category. That, of course, this is a normal competition. But I say for me, the biggest competition is how much is left at the end of the month.

53:19Mark Wilson:So after somebody's core expenses, you're saying, of like housing, food, whatever else, like that expendable income, essentially, you're elbowing everybody else for.

53:29Juvencio Maeztu:Exactly. What do you use this money for? Is it dinner? Because you have a date with some person you love? Or it is 50 euros that you pay as a mortgage for a small motorbike you buy? or it is a saving to take your children to the park. So what do you use? So for me, this is really competition. How can you really compete with what is left? I am economist by profession, but I don't like to see the economy with macroeconomics. I like no GDP and so on. I like to see economics by how much is on the people's wallet and how much is left halfway in the month. And this is where really competition starts.

54:13Mark Wilson:Would IKEA ever consider life outside the home? I guess is my question.

54:18Juvencio Maeztu:That is a question that you can ask in 100 years to someone else. But for the next 100 years, for the next 100 years, it's life at home. No, but it is truly. I said to my kids the other day, we are coming. It was raining, bloody cold. and then we came home and then I was literally opening the door of my home and then I stopped and I said to my kids, they are 28 and 25, they are not small and long, but I said, pay attention to this moment, I am opening the door of the home it's such a privilege to have a home to be back you know, we take it for granted, but you cannot take this for granted, even more in the world we live in.

55:06Juvencio Maeztu:And so that's why it's so meaningful, the life at home. This is not about selling furniture. This is about better life for the many people. And home, of course, is the most important place.

55:21Mark Wilson:All right, we are back for our final segment, Hot or Not. We're going to run through some different designs from the last month, deciding hot or not. And our producer Cody will tee them up for us. Cody, what do you have? Welcome to our first segment C of 2026. Our first item is Honda 2.0. Honda is describing this new logo as a second founding for the company. And what it looks like is it eliminates the frame around the H and it widens the H into what Honda calls two outstretched hands. And as Fast Company writer Hunter Schwartz describes it, it is very Tron-esque. And I think I agree. Whether that is hot or not, I'll leave up to you two.

56:08Mark Wilson:So I actually like this because it doesn't read as overtly electric to me. I mean, it does a little bit, but not as much as other car makers who have tried to rebrand for the EVH. Its shape is slightly, I don't know, it's slightly wonky, but I kind of don't hate it. Like, I think it works, and I think it works as Honda is going to be expanding this out beyond its electric vehicle line. I'm definitely hot on this, actually. I think it's a really well-done logo update. You know, I agree about its shape. It almost has a mid-century vibe. There's a width to it, almost like a mid-century chair. I agree, it doesn't read overtly electric.

56:50Mark Wilson:I just really actually like the wider proportions in general. It has a little bit of, you know, vintage aerospace to it. I'm here for it. Hot. Hot. Double hot. Double hot. Wow. I thought we were leading tepid at first, Liz. Good for you, Honda. Next up, TurboTax's first brick-and-mortar physical retail store, I guess you can call it, opened up in Soho So in case doing TurboTax online isn't enough, you can go do your taxes in person again. It is a Japandi-styled interior, lots of plants, lots of plush sofas. There is a 30-foot long screen. There's a coffee bar. Fast Company's Diana Buds writes that it's a Gensler design space that reads more like the lobby of a wellness hotel than a tax store.

57:39Mark Wilson:What do we feel about brick-and-mortar TurboTax? I want to say not, but the truth is I just couldn't hate this thing more. Like, there's no more negative term I can offer, I guess. Look, TurboTax introduced this biophilic design to make doing your taxes calming. But TurboTax, you know, owned by Intuit, is just like the trash, like the biggest trash, terrible company there is. Like, I've longed to write like TurboTax is the worst company in America for a long time because like they actively lobby for people to not to be able to file their taxes easily. So, like, I don't care what kind of, like, star architecture crap they're building.

58:17Mark Wilson:It has nothing to do with what the company really believes in, you know, or else it would cease to exist. Okay. That is a big no for Mark. And also, it's a no for me. I mean, look, like, I will acknowledge that it is better than going into an H &R block and sitting on a plastic chair. But echoing everything that Mark says, like, don't open up a store on Soho. Make your interface better. Work with the government. Like, let people file directly and for free. You know, a pretty Soho store is not going to solve these problems. Though, you know, if you can use it as a public bathroom in Soho, I guess there is some value.

58:55Mark Wilson:I mean, you know, I'm not sure it's worth the tens of millions of dollars of sort of tax money that they have gotten to simplify taxes for us. But yeah, free public bathroom. I'm here for it. Hopefully it lasts longer than April. It's kind of giving like a Capital One cafe type of vibe. Totally. Definitely. Two of my favorite places to pee in Soho. Next up, Grazo Mayo. The iconic millennial olive oil brand, as I'll call it, is stepping into the condiment space. They've got at least three offerings, three that I could find. There's the fancy mayo squeeze. There is a garlic aioli squeeze bottle.

59:35Mark Wilson:And there's a big jar of just old school mayo. It looks like olive oil, but you are buying an egg and oil product instead. How do we feel about Graza Mayo? It makes me tired, honestly. I understand why Graza is doing this, given that one of its primary product is half of the recipe for mayo. It's a natural extension. I'm not going to hate on that. They should expand their products. I just am really tired of like the shoppy shop aesthetic. I think that, you know, like I just Dukes, right? Dukes, Hellmann's, whatever. Just buy normal mayo. Although I will say, I hate to admit this. I bought Molly Baz's Ayo mayo.

1:00:23Mark Wilson:Oh, that shit's so good. Is it basically aioli? Is that essentially what it is? No, the one that I like is like this. It's called like a tangy mayo and it has like pepperoncini like chopped up into it. So you don't have to do that for your sandwiches. It's legitimately good. So like what I'm seeing here is not a value add. I will like go to the mat for the tangy AO, but generally speaking, I'm more of like just like a classic mayo person. So this is a, to answer your question, Cody, this is a not for me. Yeah, it's also not for me for every reason you said, but also just like, I mean, I'm like, you don't really need mayo.

1:01:01Mark Wilson:What? I'm anti-mayo. I'm just going to go anti-mayo on this one. Oh, you're one of those people. It's like a Chicago thing, isn't it? I mean, I don't know. I don't need whipped up egg and stuff spread all over my sandwiches. There's other stuff. There's other stuff. What about deviled eggs? What about any sort of mayo-based salad? Yeah.

1:01:27Mark Wilson:All right, fair enough. You're a fake Midwesterner. Off of the Mayo train, I want to talk about the Bic Crystal Lamp in honor of the 75th anniversary of the world's best-selling pen of all time. Bic is turning the pen into a lamp. It is apparently 12 times the size of an actual pen, so large enough to be a lamp, a floor lamp, a sconce, or a pendant lamp. you will be able to buy it for about$350 later this year in either blue, red, or black colorways. How are we feeling about the Bic Crystal lamp? I'm a strong hot on the lamp. It's kitschy, don't get me wrong, but, you know, it basically just looks like a, you know, it's an LED-based lamp, but it just kind of looks like a neon light wrapped in this somewhat whimsical Bic Crystal shell.

1:02:18Mark Wilson:I'm actually not really a fan of Bic crystal pens. I mean, like, they look okay, but it's not like I'm not really like a ballpoint guy. However, yeah, I guess it's hot. I think it's a nice, cute kind of product. Yeah, I guess I'll be hot on this one, too, with a couple caveats. Mostly that the LED light looks really harsh and unflattering. I would not want this in my home, but it's cute. I think the idea is fun. I am a ballpoint pen girl, so I'm into this because I like a big pen. It's one of my favorites. Awesome. I'm glad Bic could please. Very cool lamp. Moving on to something else that lights up, the Lego smart brick.

1:02:59Mark Wilson:Lego showed these off at the Consumer Electronics Show in Vegas earlier this month. It is part of their new smart play system where you have bricks, some figurines and any item that's affixed with the smart play tags. It basically lets Legos light up or play sounds. I think some of them can move, but the overall goal is to make Legos interactive. And I believe for one of the first times in Lego history, at least, potentially very annoying to parents. But some of the demo videos show like Lego Star Wars characters making noises from the movies, you can get an R2-D2 that beeps at you. So that's cute, objectively.

1:03:43Mark Wilson:Hot or not is the question, however. I think Mark is going to have some opinions on this one. For me, I think this is a hot, right? Like, I like that it is a new product that is quote-unquote smart, but doesn't involve a screen, right? Like, I know that my two boys, three and five, would be really into this. I'm less into it only being for Star Wars. They showed off some demos. Not only for Star Wars. Oh, it's not only for Star Wars. I thought that's... No, no, it'll be a standard for everything, but they showed off Star Wars because you got them. They're starting with Star Wars. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:04:16Mark Wilson:They're starting with Star Wars. But some of the other demos I was going to say that they showed were really fun. And I'm into it. I think it's a really great way to extend play with a toy that might get cast aside after a little while. I'm really into just like figuring out ways to make my children play with the toys that they already have. And I think this is a great way to do it. So I'm so torn on this one. It got universal praise right after the announcement. I think that's because conceptually it's very hot, right? Like it breaks free of screens. Legos really struggled with that for a while.

1:04:49Mark Wilson:They had platforms where they like wanted you to hold up your phone to play with a Lego kit to make it do stuff. Like they've tried just some really cringe stuff over the years. And this is their attempt at like a future-proof smart Lego product. I think in practice, it's probably going to be a not, to be totally honest. And that's just because, you know, I look at things like the Mario set that's already out that a lot of this is based upon. And it's kind of fun for a day. But like running one item over a sensor to make a noise, I don't think it's like a great play pattern long term. I just think it's a way to make like a Lego set make noise or light up a little bit.

1:05:25Mark Wilson:But, you know, I hope I'm wrong on that. I think there's a strong chance I'm wrong on it because if you really can do unique things and sort of turn Legos into code in a way or whatever and do some advanced stuff, like I imagine some people will build some cool things. And so I'm hoping it's a hot, but I feel like it's going to be a not practically. Jury's still out on the Lego smart brick. Moving along, we have another something old that has been made new, a new logo for Gourmet magazine. You might remember Gourmet as a food magazine that existed up until 2009. Well, it is back as an online newsletter.

1:06:04Mark Wilson:And there's a really funny backstory to this that I'm going to tell. It's such a depressing, and it's back. The long, beloved food publication is back as a newsletter. And you can probably pay a monthly subscription fee, I would guess. But the backstory to this is a former LA Times writer, Sam Dean, noticed that the trademark for Gourmet Magazine had expired. And he saw an opportunity there. So he called a friend and a couple other collaborators, and they got together, purchased the trademark for a few grand and have rebooted Gourmet. So they gave it the online newsletter treatment. It will not be print as of right now, but they also gave it a new logo, which Fast Company's Grace Snelling describes as, instead of a crisp, delicate script, this wordmark is unapologetically blocky, chunky, and weird.

1:07:00Mark Wilson:And we should say all of this took place without the permission of Gourmet's former publisher, Condé Nast. Do we agree with Grace that this is blocky, chunky, and weird? Yeah, no, it's definitely blocky, chunky, and weird. And I love it. I love the story behind it. I think it is such a funny media story for 2026. Their creative director described the logo as having shit stirring energy, which is amazing. And I think we just like, we generally need more of that in media. And do I think it's like legible? Do I think it is elegant? No, but I do think it is really fun and different. And I'd like to see more magazines trying stuff like this.

1:07:44Mark Wilson:Online newsletters. Well. Asterisks. I mean. Fair enough. Yeah. Current moments in media aside. I mean, this is, it couldn't be more of a not for me. I don't know. I might hate it as much as the TurboTax store. For a few reasons. One, like shaking up food media and stuff. I mean, when a publication like David Chang's Lucky Peach launched years ago, it was quirky. It was artistically expressive. It felt analog. But it wasn't just reactionary. And, you know, it wasn't just shit stirring to get attention because something is just a trademark that was purchased. You know, in this case, I see this logo as nothing more than a reaction to the old logo, right?

1:08:27Mark Wilson:And to the old brand, to the old gourmet brand. And so it's really just like, let's light the old brand on fire to draw attention, to be like, hey, where's the new gourmet? I don't know. I'm just, I don't think it's like, I don't think it's a great piece of craft. I don't think the perspective is that good. I don't think it looks very good. I don't think it's very clever. why buy gourmet for anything other than the word then, which is what that word is probably worth its trademark. Like it probably is a good investment. But in terms of brand, like they didn't do anything with the brand. They just burned the old brand.

1:09:00Mark Wilson:I think it's okay to burn the old brand. I don't have a problem with burning the old brand. And I think you're right. It probably is a little bit of a reaction, but I think we're maybe not giving enough credit to the creative process that goes into creating a logo. I don't think, like, they're sitting there and being like, how can we do the most anti-gourmet thing possible? I mean, one of the things— I don't know if that's what they asked, but that's what they did. Well, you know, I mean, I think that if you were to talk to them, they might say that— I was reading Grace's piece, and their creative director said that they went with brown because they basically were saying, so much of the food that we eat is brown, although we have, like, this really visceral bad reaction to brown when it comes to food.

1:09:40Mark Wilson:So, like, I don't know. I mean, I think that's a fair perspective. but I also don't hate the logo. I think it works for the medium that it's in. I think it'll be interesting to see how they scale it up and across like different platforms because it is sort of a wonky looking piece of design. But I come from a background of like loving experimental graphic design. And so I am... Oh, that is like a... That's a little rude. I'm here for it. I come from an experimental film and graphic design background. No, no, no. I'm not like opposed to taste. I like championing people doing something different, like, you know, reactionary or not.

1:10:18Mark Wilson:I do too, if they have like a great artistic point of view.

1:10:27Mark Wilson:That's all for today's episode. Our show is produced by Cody Nelson. Mix and sound design by Nicholas Torres. Our executive producer is Josh Christensen. Remember to subscribe, rate, and review wherever you get your podcasts. and we'll see you next month.