Inside Superman: How do you make another superhero movie stand out?

19:17Just so if we just give it a little bit more time in the oven. What's really interesting to me is what Mark was just talking about with the colors. And you say you want to bring a comic book to life. And I remember reading somewhere that back in the day when comic books were really big, printing presses were only able to do so much in terms of colors, right? Like you, they didn't have the array of colors that maybe a digital printing press might have today. And so that lent itself to a certain palette or aesthetic. And I really agree that like this film feels like a comic book brought to life.

19:54And when it comes to the colors, what exactly do these bright, primary, poppier colors evoke for you? What are they supposed to communicate to the audience? You know, I think life, honestly, like in the most in the simplest form, there's a lot of optimism, there's a lot of spirit, a lot of heart. So I think that's what comes when you're kind of showered with bright, vivid colors, a lot of good sunlight, a lot of good, a lot of good clarity. I think it just it ends up ultimately leading to something that feels like a more upbeat experience, something that feels more, you know, more joyful, more entertaining, more, you know, a little more energy.

20:35So I think James was really looking to kind of lighten the mood and lift the spirits and fill us with with optimism and so i think right color is kind of the first and quickest and simplest way to to just show that um right out of the gate so and when you look at when you look at the all-star superman it is that actually the first thing i did was i took screenshots of i think it was about 75 pages of the series just so i could get kind of a snapshot of the palette and then i put them all together i didn't even um kind of arrange i just put them all together so I could just take a look and squint and see what were the leading colors here.

21:10It was largely primary. It was largely Superman's colors. It was red backdrops and blue backdrops and a bright, big gold page, entirely just gold filled with light. And then it was the secondary colors. A little bit of that was secondary colors, kind of the, you know, the greens and the purples and the oranges. But there really wasn't, there was hardly any of the, you know, those tertiary tones that are the kind of magentas and the aquas. And so it was really pretty quickly, you could see like, oh, we're almost kind of dealing with the rainbow palette here. And then the other thing that we saw a lot in that too, is just these like big, fun geometric shapes.

21:46You know, it was a lot of geometry, a lot of big, fun, simple graphic shapes, a big sphere, a big, you know, big triangle on the street, you know, big race stripes down the street with yellow, you know, yellow traffic, traffic lines. And so all that kind of graphic nature too, I think just all kind of led to this poppier, more vibrant visual. I just want to say I love the blue on Superman's costume. And I can't quite articulate what the blue is. So could you just tell me what is that blue that I'm looking at? It's almost like vintage and icy.

22:20Mark Wilson:She's looking to paint some rooms. Yeah, I'm looking to paint my room. The Superman blue. Yeah. You know, it almost has kind of like an aquamarine undertone to it. You know, it's not just true royal blue, you know, and it definitely doesn't veer kind of in the purple or blue. So it almost has like a little bit of an aquamarine undertone to it. And that was quite the exploration. Judy Anna Makovsky, just an absolute legend in the costume world. She really did her research on tones as well. And when she pulled out the version ended up being, I just remember at the meeting, everybody unanimously said, and James as well, like, oh, yeah, yeah, this is it.

22:59We're hitting it. And then, of course, the trunks, no trunks was an ongoing discussion. But then just as we started to know, we wanted to harken back more to the 70s, to the original version. It felt like, oh, of course, you've got to do the trunks, you know. And it also just kind of helps to hit that tone on the head, I think, that we were going for.

23:17Mark Wilson:I mean, that harkening back to the original film, too. I mean, it starts right with the credits, right? Where you have like this, you know, 19, I guess, was it 78? Like 78 to 80s, you know, inspired credit sequence. that feels just like pure homage to kick things off? Yeah, absolutely. Even all the way down to the fonts that we chose for everything. You know, none of it feels like a font that's going to be identified as 2023, 2025. Everything has a kind of a timeless quality to it. In all the decisions that kind of went across the board, timelessness was a really big, that was a really big term.

23:52We use that a lot, sense of nostalgia. We tried, we made sure that we at least tried to do that with The Fortress of Solitude. You know, we didn't want to, we didn't want to fully reinvent the wheel. And everybody remembers Superman going out in 1978, throwing the crystal and that beautiful fortress emerging. So we wanted to do something similar to that. But people have just tried lots of different aesthetics with it. And I think we just felt like there was so much in the original that really related to us. It had kind of the uplifting humor. It had just the sweet relationships and had a lot of heart to it.

24:27And so it just felt like, ah, okay, if we kind of follow their footsteps a little bit, we'd probably be going in the right direction. Obviously, the way that films get made, it's changed a lot since 1978. Yes. But what hasn't changed is that you all seem to really lean into practical effects. I was pretty shocked to learn that The Fortress of Solitude was not CGI. Your team actually built the Fortress of Solitude with giant ice crystals. Can you tell us about that process? Because that's really crazy to me. The person who I was watching this movie with, I was like, that's definitely CGI. And I was wrong.

25:04Yes, thank you so much. I will say this. I literally, I cry every single time that that fortress emerges from the snow. I cry every single time we go through the doors and we go inside. I'm incredibly, incredibly honored that I had the opportunity to get to reimagine and recreate such an iconic piece of filmography. I remember telling James, hey, you know, materials have really evolved since then. I think we're going to be able to do some really great things with resins and give us a shot. Let us go and have a play. And I think we can we can really bring this to life. Then what proceeded was about 12 weeks of testing with resins where we actually couldn't nail the crystal and how to do a crystal.

25:45And so it's kind of led to it.

25:47Mark Wilson:Was it like too dull or what? Like how was the crystal off? We just couldn't get, we were drawing these crystals that were 30 and 40 feet long. That's what we were drawing for our construction drawings. And we were trying to make, we were trying to do a prototype of a crystal just six or eight feet just to see if it was working. And in order for them to be strong enough and have enough integrity to actually stand and not break, they would end up too solid and cloudy, too heavy, no translucency. So the strong ones just were basically solid. And then if we made them thin enough to get, you know, really good translucency, they would break and they brittle, they were brittle and they crumble.

26:26So it took a lot of R &D and a lot of playing with resins to figure out the system of how to do it. and ultimately kind of uh sure the very end with about eight weeks to go six or eight weeks to go um we finally did nail it with um we ended up sculpting um crystals out of foam and then making a mold out of those casting those making a mold out of those and then we would pour two halves so we'd have two halves of crystals and then we joined the two halves of crystals but you would we would actually seam them from the inside. So you would have one of the construction, you know, gentlemen going in there and crawling inside of a four foot diameter crystal and sealing it from the inside, sealing the halves together.

27:10And then we'd string our fiberglass through them and try to create some of those occlusions. And then you would end up with a freestanding crystal, which was, it was, it was a lot of testing, but we finally did nail it with about eight weeks to go, then it became, okay, we have 242 of these in our drawings. How many can we make a day in order to hit our numbers? And so we had to do the math and we ended up having a night crew and a day crew going around the clock, creating these crystals. These flatbed trucks would roll in from our crystal warehouse down the street and offload another 10 or 12 crystals that were made that morning.

27:45We'd put them into place. And yeah, we were really happy. So that's the kind of fun stuff that is doable now but wouldn't have been doable you know decades ago but yeah I was really proud when everybody walked onto the set and saw that oh no this is this is actually we're surrounded by crystals here it does seem like it is a lot more work potentially than doing something on a computer but what what do you gain I mean why go through all of that to build the fortress of solitude out of resin crystals. So while our VFX team, they are absolutely 100 % the best in the industry, there are just moments that you end up feeling like you might be in an animated world more than a tactile world.

28:29And I, for one, I really believe, and I know James really believes, that as soon as something feels like it's not a tactile world, and as soon as it feels like you're in more of an animated world, you lose the audience, or you at least lose a portion of the audience, they become divested in the story. They aren't quite along for the ride the way that they were before. So you get that, you get everybody coming along for the ride in the audience. But then also I really feel like for the actors and for the filmmakers, when you're actually standing in a real tangible world, it helps everybody buy into that story, right?

29:03You know, it helps the actors feel like, oh yeah, no, I'm not just in a soundstage surrounded by green fabric or blue fabric that's all going to be replaced. And I'm not talking to like a tennis ball, you know, I'm actually talking to a real robot. So I do think on some level, it definitely helps the performances. It just helps everybody there on the set that day get into the mood. And I really feel like that comes across.

29:25Mark Wilson:I would just say, I think it's fascinating because you kind of have, you know, in the last few years, maybe even about the last decade, we've really seen this widespread return to practical sets, like on a lot of different productions. And at the same time, you have sort of Netflix releasing its first just AI-generated environments and things like that happening at once. And so I'm wondering, how are you and how, I guess, are your peers navigating these two, I think, very opposite poles at the same time? You know, I think you can look at AI as this. You could look at it as the adversary, the thing that's going to put everybody out of work.

30:01Or you could also look at it as a tool. And I've definitely chosen to think of it as it can be a creative development tool just to help us get farther and help just spitballing ideas. And I do think it'll be a tool for, you know, studios who get a great script from an unknown director, but that script's going to cost$100 million to make as it is on the page. But hey, if we use AI for these five sequences of a huge international battle that happens in some foreign territory, I think that what it will ultimately end up doing is making those films more possible to do. You know, still do a lot of it practically, just the way we've always been doing.

30:40But I think it's just going to ultimately end up opening more doors. But my brother is a filmmaker, Jim Mickle, really talented. And he and I talk about it a lot. And he had a great observation as well. He's like, I just, I think ultimately people are always going to want to return to what's original, what's handcrafted. You know, a lot of the stuff, even when you go on Pinterest now, you see all the AI generated stuff. it kind of just becomes a monotonous mush of kind of indecipherable-ness.

31:07Mark Wilson:And it's very much like to draw a parallel in Superman, like in sci-fi, like the Black goo aesthetic. Like, how do you counter the sort of like the Black goo aesthetic coming for you? Yes, no, exactly. Exactly. And I think you look at it and I think you could see, at least I believe that pretty quickly, and I think you're already seeing it, that people are kind of tired of the same AI generated type of imagery and are just going to want to see, again, more original stuff coming from humans and original creators and original filmmakers, original artists. I think we can't deny that the world's going to look wildly different five years from now.

31:42And I think it's important to be adaptable. It's, you know, the advice I give everybody, be adaptable. And it's going to be fascinating. We should have a talk. We should schedule a talk for five years. Exactly. Exactly. One thing that AI doesn't seem capable of is all of the little details that go into a film that actually make it feel like a world, right? Like I think the work of a production designer is to bring those little details to life. And one of the things about the Superman film that I really loved observing are the personal spaces of all of the characters. So Lois Lane's apartment, also Superman's apartment, which I am very curious to hear about.

32:22So how do you think about those spaces and how do you bring them to life? How do they relate to the characters? For Lois's, that was just the biggest joy to do as far as a residential interior. Talk about a character that has a lot of depths and a lot of layers. And Rachel Brosnahan is what just first, what a phenomenal actor, but then also an actor who really thinks about her space and her environment. And she came in with a lot of ideas as well and just said it was important that the space felt lived in in a way where it was clear that her work was her priority. Her work was her entire focus.

32:58And James also wanted it to feel like there was a lot of professorial clutter, he kept saying. Like, it's clear that she just comes in and her research is everywhere. Her books are everywhere. That's a great way to phrase it. Professorial clutter. I didn't have a description for it, but that's what it is.

33:15Mark Wilson:I feel so much better about my home with that. I just need a rebrand. you just need to rebrand as soon as you put that little like adjective professorial it suddenly becomes like sophisticated and forgivable you know you're like okay yes yes acceptable so then we reach out all these great notes like my character doesn't have time to go out and like find a million you know different notebooks she finds the one notebook that works for her she buys it in bulk and she uses that notebook over and over so it's like the stacks of the same notebook are in the apartment. She likes one pen. She likes one, like, you know, this ball pen 0.05, you know, line weight.

33:52So we got all of those pens and that's what's in all of the cup holders. She folds her laundry, but doesn't have time to put her laundry away. You know, she's tidy enough to fold it, but doesn't actually put it away. She's tidy enough to maybe wash the dishes and put them in the drying rack, but she doesn't put them away. And so all those little things I think really lead up to an environment that at least I can really identify with, you know, you can really see like, oh yeah, that stuff that you kind of always mean to get to, but your work is kind of what you live for and what you kind of end up turning your energy and your focus to.

34:20Mark Wilson:I have this question about that space and I really want to get to Superman space in a second, but when David, when David Kors was standing in that kitchen and he's cooking, is the kitchen intentionally made a little bit smaller to make him look big or is he just that big of a dude? Great question. Great question. It's a little bit of both. It's, it's, he's definitely just that big of a dude, but it's Also, James really wanted it to feel like a pre-war apartment in New York, you know, that anybody that lived there in the 90s and was an artist or, you know, along those lines had some pre-war apartment in Chelsea or the high upper west side.

34:55And those apartments, I lived in one on 99th Street and Riverside Drive with one of my best girlfriends. Our kitchen was, believe it or not, even smaller than that kitchen. And it was you couldn't fit two people in at once. It didn't even have the open wall to the living room. It was just like one little doorway and one little person could squeeze in. And if you turn one side, you hit the fridge. If you turn the other, you hit the oven. So we were really trying to model it after those kinds of apartments in New York.

35:21Mark Wilson:But she gets such a big living room, comparatively, I would just say. It's like a palatial, like 700 square foot living room and the 20 square foot kitchen. The tiny little kitchen. But that's how New York apartments are. I mean, you never get 700 square feet in the living room, but, you know. But you might get like 300, you know. And then if you actually look around, like her cork board, there are so many Easter eggs in there. I don't know if I don't think we actually have any shots that maybe show that text clearly enough. So I won't go into what all the Easter eggs are. But if there are any sleuths out there and want to zoom in on that cork board, there are so many D.C.

35:57Easter eggs hidden in there and references to other enterprises that are part of the D.C. world. Somebody already picked up, I think, our Stagg Enterprises article that's on the bookshelf. And then an article about Superman is on the mantle that she that actually comes right from the D.C. lore. She Lois Lane want to want to pull a surprise for an article about Superman. So we we made a little article about Superman and her little frame pull it surprises there.

36:21Mark Wilson:Contrasted to Superman's apartment real quickly. Yeah, I felt like it's like look straight out of Dubai or something. One chair, one lamp. Yep. All on purpose. I did appreciate the blue cabinetry. A little like callback to the costume. Thank you. That was purposeful. That was purposeful. Thank you. We even tried to kind of get it, you know, to really kind of be right in line with what his blue toad was. That one was really fun. The idea was that Superman probably just went into an apartment and looked at the model apartment that they were either, you know, that they were just renting. Like, here's a model apartment.

37:01And he just said, great, like, I'm just going to take this model staged apartment the way a realtor set it up. Because Superman wouldn't really have a sense of how to decorate his space and what to bring in and where to even go shop for these things. It's just not on his radar. So James just said it should feel like a realtor staged the apartment. And he just took it as is. and there were actually some really funny discussions where I was like, shouldn't we have a couple chairs? Maybe we want to have a couch in case he has guests. He's like, he's Superman. He's not like throwing parties, you know?

37:30And I was like, fair enough.

37:31Mark Wilson:He can stand 24 hours straight. It's not a big deal. Yeah, it's not a big deal. He just, he comes home. He has his one chair for him. He has his TV. The one thing James had us put in there, which you actually don't see because of the lighting, because we wanted it to be dark and be all about the outside infight, was that James said he would maybe have a set of hand weights. and because he wants to try to like fool people as to why he's so big and burly. So he probably has a set of hand weights. How heavy are they? Well, so that was the funny thing James said, but they're just like two and five pound weights.

38:02Like he doesn't understand. He's probably curling a lot more than five pounds. So we have like the daintiest little set of like girls hand weights down on the side of the console. That's hilarious. I did not notice that.

38:14Mark Wilson:He needs hip, no hand weights. He needs hip, no hand weights. so that was actually really fun to do and we kept it really devoid of personal stuff he also of course doesn't want to reveal anything about his family that's all he's trying to keep them safe so he's not revealing ma and pa and so it's just supposed to feel purposely very sterile and very um staged and then the last thing i'll say design wise which was fun on that is that we knew there was going to be this big imp fight outside that was going to be all it was going to feel like fireworks that was the idea like visually it should feel like fireworks but it's this you know It's this alien imp fight happening outside that he's not participating in.

38:52And we knew there were going to be all these big array of colors shining outside. And so I thought, okay, let's make sure the walls, the ceiling, the floor are all really glossy so that all of that color that's outside really carries inside. We did the imp on an LED screen outside. So that's actually real. It's on an LED screen outside of its windows. We designed all of that early on. And then it's actually like all the reflections along the walls. That's all real and in camera. It's all like.

39:20Mark Wilson:Yeah, I was going to say, that's why the light looks so good in that scene, because it's actual light. Yes, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. One of the reasons that I love Superman from a personal perspective is because it's about journalists, right? And it's fun to watch a journalist on screen. But I do have to ask, Beth, have you ever been in a newsroom? because the Daily Planet does not look like anything that I have been in. It might be more fantastical than the Fortress of Solitude. Like if I saw both side by side in 2025, I think the Daily Planet is less realistic. Well, a lot of that goes to actually what we were trying to do with the period stuff as well.

40:01We looked at a lot of 1960s, 1970s, 1980s newsrooms where, you know, it is stacks of papers. It's some landline telephones. That was very purposeful. We didn't want it to be, you know, we didn't want it to feel like a fully digital, fully digitally taken over new space. So all those things that can kind of help keep a little foot in a little bit of a nostalgia. So you'll see like all the desk lamps, they're all vintage desk lamps that we painted to make it look like they were all factory ordered and put into the space. The computer monitors are nowhere near the new swanky computer monitors we have now.

40:36So and the chairs, if you look at the chairs, those are like 1970s desk chairs that we reupholstered just to give it a little bit of that timeless thread. And then did all the modern did like James just said, then they have the media all around them. So like the news is always playing. So we just had monitors everywhere.

40:53Mark Wilson:So it's like the digital components are contemporary, essentially, or like the screen media components and everything else is sort of floating in time. Exactly. That's geez. I wish I could have actually had exactly your wording for when I was trying to explain this to people throughout prep, because that's that's exactly it. Like, you know, we know very modern news offices have a very different feel from what we were going for. But we just felt like we wanted it to have a classic. We wanted to have this classic feel, Woodward and Bernstein feel and looking at journalists who were breaking news back in the 70s and 80s.

41:24And what do those spaces look like? And so like there's post-its everywhere, you know, stacks of paper everywhere. And that's obviously not the way people operate this day and age. But when you look at it, you're like, well, that's the way the world operated for 50 years. So it feels a little more nostalgic than, you know, I'm sure new studios today and 2025 are going to look wildly different in 2030. So the digital age, I think, is going to be is going to just evolve every decade. It's going to look like a different world. Whereas I think that that like the paper and pen age is that's what we all knew for a century.

41:58Actually, the same just as like another example of that, like the picture cars. We were trying to figure out what the taxis and the police cars would be. And like now they're all modern chargers and they're all slick and they're compact. And but for the longest time, if you lived in any city from like the 80s to the 90s to the early 2000s to 2010, really, it was that classic Crown Vic. That's what everybody knew. So that was another example of like what feels more timeless. the 2023 Charger that we saw for these three years and they upgraded in 2026? Or is it going to be the vehicle that was there in the 80s?

42:33Also there in 2002, also in 2010. So we're kind of going for what's the thing that's going to feel like it's been the longest lasting in history. So, and then we were really lucky. We shot in the Macon train station, which just had that gorgeous architecture in Georgia. So we had some really, really great, a really great infrastructure to start with. Yeah. I mean, the space is really aspirational. I loved looking at it. I kid. I mean, obviously, if our newsroom looked like that, I would be so happy. I love those details, that timelessness, like how Mark described just sort of floating in time.

43:09We don't really know where we are. And you had said that there are no genes in the movie because the genes were considered too modern, which is so funny. I didn't notice it, although I did take note of Lois's pants. I really liked her pants. Very, very Brooklyn mom pants. But that's I mean, even down to the jeans, like it just what a fun job you have to be able to think in this way and really build out these worlds. Yeah, you know, and to create this set of rules, really, you know, like aside from the cell phones where they're getting the information dumps from, you know, about the Lex Luthor files and stuff.

43:47And aside from those, like we just didn't want to spend a ton of time looking on cell phone screens. And even that, like what are the cell phones? Like they're going to be dated in two years anyway. So just trying to find things that felt like they could last a little bit at the test of time. And yeah, and Juliana had the no genes idea. And when you look at the movie, you don't immediately know it when you're looking at a crowd. You just know that like, wow, this crowd feels a little captured in time. And only when you really start to zero in or you're like, oh, there's no like heavy, you know, like logo graphic t-shirts, which we see everywhere, you know, now.

44:19And if there is, it's like a vintage DC graphic for like Big Belly Burger or something, you know, and there are no jeans in there. So we tried to avoid even in the general picture cards, again, that you see in the background, like just try to avoid things that felt like this is going to stamp us and like the 2020 decade, let's not do that. So it's all those fun little details that you do just to try to create a little blanket of timelessness. And honestly, we talked about this the second week of prep, Judy on and I actually both had this idea about kind of creating the world this way. And we went to James with this idea.

44:50He really loved it. He felt like that was the way to kind of help have this movie just be for a movie for all ages, a movie that'll last the test of time, a movie that kind of feels a little suspended in time. And it was a really fun, big, giant experiment to see if it would work. You know, if you look at all the street signs, it's there's neons, you know, that feel older. There's old can letters like we used to have in New York back in the 60s and 70s. But then there's also like new printed vinyls, just do a nice little mix. So it all kind of lives together. And it's really great having the movie come out and feel like, all right, it doesn't feel like a period piece, but nobody's ever going to look at this movie and be like, that was made in 2023.

45:27You know, it's so I feel like that's where there was success in it. So but it's fun. It's really fun to see it now and see how all the elements came together. Well, this has been great. Thank you so much for sharing all of these details with us. I had a great time learning about Superman. makes me want to watch the movie again.

45:44Mark Wilson:Yes, thank you for portraying journalists as superheroes. No, and thank you for all the really thoughtful questions. There must be a reason for you to be here. Yes, I'm here to fight for truth and justice in the American way. You're going to end up fighting every elected official in this country.

46:12Okay, we're back with Best and Worst. Still our segment that needs a new name. We're waiting for your suggestions. Please email them to us.

46:20Mark Wilson:We're talking about the best stuff in design this month and the worst stuff in design this month, but with a better name that you will come up with for us. And to assist us in the judging, as always, is our producer, Cody Nelson. He has complete power over whether Liz or I win Best or Worst. Glad to be back. Sound off in the comments with your name ideas for this segment, and we will take them. Okay, Mark, I want you to go first this time. What is the best design of the month? The best design of the month is Andy Sachs is back. Okay, can you please spell Gabbana? Hello? The lead protagonist of Devil Wears Prada 2, which is now filming.

47:03Mark Wilson:We got to see a first shot of Anne Hathaway wearing a pinstriped vest suit looking really powerful or like she has a good budget from Rent the Runway. But look, I'm like hyped for the film. I don't know where it's going. I love Devil Wears Prada. One, another great journalism story. So basically anything that comes out about the movie, I'm going to just stand for. Yeah, so I can't disagree with that. I think that's a very exciting development in my world too. But I've got one that's going to be divisive. It is Coke reimagining its recipe with cane sugar. So the company recently announced that it will be introducing a new product this fall, which is Coke made with cane sugar.

47:46Mark Wilson:No, no, you buried the lead on this one. Yeah, no, no, no, I'm getting there. Coke reimagining. Reimagining, redesigning. This is why it qualifies as a best design. No, but this happened because President Trump threw a temper tantrum on Truth Social a couple weeks back, calling for Coke to replace high fructose corn syrup with cane sugar. That's the way it's made in Mexico and in other countries. and it is objectively better, right? Like cane sugar is an export of Mexico. It's pricer in the US. I think that's a big reason why Coke doesn't use it here. So Trump called for Coke to do this. Coke just announced that it is going to be introducing this new product.

48:24It's going to be a separate product, right? They're still going to make the Coke with high fructose corn syrup, but this is going to be something else that you can buy. Listen, like, it is admittedly a gross abuse of power to bully a company into making your favorite soda with the recipe you prefer. But it is also just better. And for that reason, it is my best design of the month.

48:48Mark Wilson:I mean, look, Coca-Cola with real sugar is objectively delicious and so much better than corn syrup. However, your best design of the month is my worst design of the month. I just love this idea of like Trump reimagining Coca-Cola like Trump reimagined immigration. Well, when you put it that way. I can't do the Maca Coke. I just can't do it. Oh, my God. I didn't even think about that. It's like reimagining CBS without Stephen Colbert. That's so depressing. Too soon, Cody. Too soon. He's a rich guy. He'll be fine. What I do hate about it, like truly, is that it will be a different Coke. That they didn't just update Coke.

49:27Mark Wilson:So all Coke is just this. Like it will be an identifiable Trump Coke, like the mega Coke. And it's probably going to be more expensive. I mean, they don't have like the high fructose corn subsidies driving it. So it probably will be more expensive. But I don't know. I'm really torn here because, yes, like sugar Coke is great. I'm also just like imagining the share of Coke campaign of a child reaching through the fence to their parents. You just ruined this for me. You just ruined it with mega Coke. I'm not done yet. I, you know, like imagine an ice agent at the end of a long, hard day sitting down to a plate of tacos.

50:03Mark Wilson:I just, I, I, I hate that like a single person doing mostly bad and wrong things can do something good. But then that's like still terrible. Yeah. All right. Sorry, Liz, I went too hard. I went too hard. No, no, no, no. We'll share a Coke. We'll share a Coke. What was your worst design of the month, Liz? I'm going to go in a different direction here. So my worst is the fashion that came out of the Allen & Co Sun Valley retreat. A few weeks back in July, many of the world's richest and most powerful business people, people like Mark Zuckerberg, Sam Altman, Tim Cook, a bunch of other business people, arrived in Sun Valley, Idaho for the annual meeting of the moguls.

50:48So media covers this event like it does the red carpet of the Oscars. but what you're getting there is very, very different than what you get at the Oscars.

50:58Mark Wilson:Understatement. Yeah, right, right. It's anti-fashion. I mean, these guys, and most of them are men, really don't give a shit about what they wear. And I just want to see the billionaires embrace it, right? Like, just try a little bit. You don't have to cosplay dad on the weekend. I am a normal person. Like, the only person who I think really brought it, and it was not good with Sam Altman with his wacky glasses. He had some like really strange sunglasses on. Statement piece though. He actually tried with a statement piece. At least it was something to talk about. And, you know, I'm just going to plug this because we just launched our best dressed in business list yesterday.

51:39And there are a lot of business people out there who do care about how they dress. And I think it's additive to their persona, to their work. And, you know, I guess I would just like to see other people try a little bit harder too.

51:50Mark Wilson:No, I'm with you on that. Like, I feel like I don't need, you know, gilded lapels, but at the same time, you can dress better than like you just like walked out of a Kohl's. Yes, amen to that. All right, Cody. Hard to choose, right? Hard to choose, isn't it, Cody? A lot of good, a lot of bad. Be the tiebreaker on Coke. I don't think the Coke is even a story because if you are someone who has been to a grocery store, which I would exclude the president from that class of people, you would know that you can get cane sugar Coke. This is a non-issue. I'm going to go for the best Devil Wears Prada 2.

52:33Mark Wilson:Easy answer. I can't wait. I forgot there was a sequel coming out, and you reminded me, and that made me really happy. I love the first one. I can't wait. I feel like Cody copping out of best and worst is the worst design decision of this month. I'm just trying to... Liz, can you back me up on this? We can have a mutiny. I have been to a grocery store, Cody. I know you have. Despite your... Where is this cane sugar Coke that you speak of? They do have cane sugar Coke in grocery stores, but it costs... I paid$2 a bottle recently, which I hate to admit. Are you talking about the glass bottle Coke?

53:12Mark Wilson:Yeah, it's like Mexican Coke. Yeah, Mexican Coke. But this is going to be, I guess, American-made Coke. Not that it really matters. I don't know what the distinction is. Liz, what's that Made in America Coke? I have no allegiance to American Coke. I want to set the record straight. Made in America Coke is such a horrible choice that it doesn't even register as my worst. It's sub-list for this week. The middest of mid. The middest of mid. I'm a fridge cigarette guy anyway. The worst I'm going to go with Liz's this week, the Sun Valley fashion. I was scrolling through the Fast Company article that we will put in the show notes so you can see some of these just absolute garbage fits.

53:58Mark Wilson:They're not even fits. They're just like poor fitting polos and like solid color t-shirts. The polos are the most insulting. They are. And I assume like whatever company they're buying these from or their like assistants are buying these from like these polos probably cost more than most people's entire like outfits on any given day but like it looks like old navy sales rack from like 20 years ago it's just there's no attempt and i think if you have that much money pay a consultant at least like you could hire a team of people to dress you and you still come out just looking like ass no thank you worse design.

54:36All right. I feel vindicated slightly.

54:39Mark Wilson:There you go, Liz. All right. We're even. We're even on that one, Liz. I'll take it. All right. Well, that's all for today's episode. Our show is produced by Cody Nelson, mix and sound design by Nicholas Torres, and our executive producer is Josh Christensen. Remember again to subscribe, rate, and review wherever you get your podcasts, and we'll see you next month.