The Skills That Separate CFOs from Finance Experts

0:02Technology itself should always be part of your leadership philosophy because it's at the end of the day to empower your people to get the job done, not to replace them.

0:15Megan Weis: Welcome back to CFO Weekly, where we're talking with financial leaders about how to build efficiency in their teams, create time for strategy, and ultimately get results. This podcast is brought to you by Personev, the trusted leader in finance and accounting outsourcing for over 30 years. See how Personev's customized solutions can help you streamline your operations with teams that start as small as one. Visit the website at personev.com to learn more. I'm your host, Megan Weiss. Let's jump right in. Welcome back to CFO Weekly. Today, I'm joined by Wasia Kamen, Chief Financial Officer at ACE, Access to Capital for Entrepreneurs, Georgia's largest nonprofit community development financial institution.

1:03Megan Weis: Wasia is an award-winning finance leader with more than 15 years of experience across manufacturing, technology, pharmaceuticals, and the nonprofit sector. Her career has spanned both accounting and FP &A, giving her a unique perspective on what it really takes to grow into the modern CFO role. In this episode, we'll explore the journey from controller or FP &A leader to modern CFO, the mindset shifts that matter most, and how aspiring finance executives can prepare for a role that extends far beyond the numbers. Welcome back to the show, Asya. Thank you so much, Megan. Really glad to be back.

1:43Megan Weis: Yeah, I'm super excited about this topic. I think it's going to be a fun conversation. Many finance professionals obviously aspire to become the CFO. That's probably the ultimate goal for many. So looking back, what experiences made the biggest difference in preparing you for that transition? I'll say three things. The first one was being an interim CFO for a couple months when I was controller. It really allowed me to see what else a CFO did. because then you're like, what is a CFO even doing? I can do that. And then you get it and you're like, okay, I may not be as ready as I thought. So that was definitely eye-opening experience for me because I was able to better understand the breadth of what is under a CFO.

2:31The other thing was joining a not-for-profit company as a board member. So I did that when I was director of FP &A actually at the time, And it really helped me because part of being a CFO is reporting to the board, reporting to the CEO. So being able to get those reps outside my organization really helped because you're at the table, you are able to influence the outcome, and you get to work with people that are not within finance and accounting. So that really helped change my perspective and understanding how a CEO really felt. Because CEO, I'm the hiring manager of the CFO, same as boards.

3:13And so being able to understand that perspective, understanding what are the things that typically stress out a CEO, what they expect from their teams, how they have to report to the boards, so really understanding that really helped me from that. And I'll say the last thing was working with an executive coach. That one really accelerated my career because it allowed me to really elevate how I will communicate, seeing my blind spot and being really seen as executive material from that point. So definitely the three are being an interim CFO. I had that opportunity at the company where I was when I was a controller and I felt like, oh, it would be an easy move.

3:52It wasn't. The second one was becoming a board member, actually treasured of that not for profit. And then also working with an executive coach a couple of years after that.

4:01Megan Weis: So any advice for finding a seat at the board? Like, how did you go about finding that? It was on LinkedIn. It was a not-for-profit board. It was an unpaid board at a local charity. There was a specific website, too, for volunteers, for charities. A lot of charities are looking for board members. And I highly encourage people to do that, to visit that website as well. A lot of charities are looking. And so the charity I went for was, it's called Hope. and we help single parents complete an education degree. And the reason it spoke to me was because my mom became a single mom when my parents divorced when I was 15 years old.

4:40At the time, she wanted to go for a PhD, but then there was us, the three of us. And so she had to put that on hold. And so when I saw the cause, it really appealed to me. And so when I was going through the interview process, I could see that, yes, I wanted to have the experience as a board member, But it was also a cause that really resonated with me personally.

5:02Megan Weis: Yeah, you can kill two birds with one stone, get the great experience and work for a good cause. So from your perspective, what's the biggest mindset shift someone needs to make when moving from controller or FP &A leader into the CFO seat? So definitely two different mindsets, depending on if you came through the controller route or the FP &A route. I actually did both. So I was a controller and then I did FP &A. From the controllership, I will say it's really under pressure that you see those habits that you need to change come through. So, for example, if you're a controller, you are all about making sure nothing breaks.

5:41Everything ties up. We're compliant. You see the risk before you see the opportunity sometimes. And so when you are under pressure as a controller, some of your natural instinct is to dig deeper in the weeds to understand what happened. That's how you were great at what you did. And so your first instinct when it happens to go straight into the weeds. And so maybe how helped you become a controller now will be an hindrance because you need to step out of that operator mindset in the right moment. Because you have to bring in, you have to be able to, this happened, let me rise up and see the bigger picture.

6:20So you can bring judgment to strategy conversation. You can lead your people effectively instead of spending time in the accounting system trying to find out what caused the error or what happened. You learn how you can empower your team, have the right system to get that kind of things, but really step up because the CFO requires so much more than just keeping the books together. When you come to an FP &A on the other end, you work closely with executives. You probably see the bigger picture easily, but sometimes under pressure, your natural instinct will be, okay, let me stress that's the model.

6:54You may be spending a lot of time in the Excel or whatever tool you use for FP &A to explain the variance. And again, that can make others see you just as an analyst because if you want to be an FP &A leader that becomes a CFO, you have to show that you can move beyond that model, beyond that analysis and lead your whole team, whether it's the accounting team, whether it's treasury, and be able to drive results. Not just saying here's a variant, but how are you going to influence the people who work for you, the people who do not work for you to actually get the results of business need?

7:30Megan Weis: So you just talked about strengths that become weaknesses. So how can professionals from each path round out the skills they're missing? Is there a way to do it before stepping into the role or is it just something that happens when you're in that role? So for both sides, one thing that really helped me was building a personal board of directors. And I wrote a guide on it. It's this concept I learned from a book by Janine Brown called An Unstoppable. And having a personal board of directors, you probably heard, oh, you have a mentor, you have a sponsor. A personal board director is really a network that you have.

8:07A couple of people. I currently have about 12 on mine. I grew it over a couple of years. people of diverse backgrounds that can help you see the world differently. So you want it to be as diverse as possible in terms of fields, age, gender, because what happens is as you get closer to the CFO role, you have to interact with so many people that are outside of the finance and accounting function. So, and that's something that I kind of expected, but really took me by surprise when I actually became a CFO. I'm spending way more time outside of my finance team than with my own finance team. You look at my calendar, I spend way more time with other people than my finance team.

8:53And to be able to build those effective relationships and understand what your blind spots are, whether you are coming from FP &A or controller, you need to be surrounded with people that have different perspectives. You have a friend that you can talk to that was an executive in marketing or supply chain. because when you get into the situation, it's good to have those friends that you can bounce ideas off, but it really helps to see the world from their perspective. So for a controller, for example, when you have to explain something to someone that is in marketing, you cannot just go by, okay, this is a debit, the credit, the accrual, the guidance.

9:29That's like Chinese to them, like the Mandarin. It doesn't mean anything. You have to learn to break down those ideas down. And sometimes when we have mentors and you're in finance or in accounting, the likelihood that your one mentor is from the same background is very high. How many people are in finance and accounting and have a marketing mentor or a lawyer that's one of your mentors or peers? So I think that's the number one way that either route can really grow their skill set because the role of the CFO has expanded and is expanded so fast.

10:04Megan Weis: Yeah, the CFO, I've heard it called the chief everything officer at times. Yes. So you just mentioned the importance of cross-functional relationships, but at what point should a finance professional start thinking beyond finance and start building those relationships across the rest of the business? I think from day one, as early as possible, because I realize now the title I have, being a CFO, people don't react to you the same way. They don't share information the same way. So if I was to start building those relationships today with this title, people would be on the fence. But I feel like the earlier you do it, when you're staff, when you're manager, these are the best time to really do it and get those insights, learn the language of the business, build that business acumen.

10:53because you can't just say, and I also encourage my team to do it. I'm like, block your calendar once a week, 30 minutes. I need 30 minutes for you to spend time with somebody outside of finance and accounting because I don't want you to just go to them, for example, when you need a receipt or when you need an estimate to redo a forecast. I need you to be with them, understand their realities. It's almost like a bank account. You spending time with them trying to help them is what will increase the money in your trust bank account. And whatever you ask them will be a debit. We often broke in a lot of ways as we go through our finance and accounting careers.

11:34So I think spending time as soon as possible, even if it's just one number. So let's say you're doing a reconciliation or you're FBNA and you have to start the forecast. Try to understand what is the business implications behind the number. How did that number come to be? Who recorded it? Why was it done this way? What business transaction happened? If you're analyzing sales and revenues, why do customers like you, like your company in the first place? When you read the news, you just saw that interest rates went up. What does it mean for your company? So trying to see the bigger picture and connect with other people will really help developing that business acumen that you need to really accelerate your career.

12:23Megan Weis: Whenever that kind of topic comes up, I'm always reminded of like undercover CEO, like the CEO that goes in the sky. Yeah, I agree. But it's so important to understand the business from the bottom up. Yes. And you've spoken extensively about systems, governance and team building. How important are those capabilities compared to technical accounting or financial planning expertise? To me, they're everything, especially at the CFO level, because there is no way you as a CFO, you are one person that you can close a month, do compliance, do taxes, do treasury, all that by yourself every day. You are by default leading through people.

13:04And so you need to empower those people with the appropriate authority and also equip them with the right tools to get the job done. because you cannot do it on your own. So you have to be able to lead people, make sure that they have the right tools, be able to advocate for them to have the right systems in order to do those things. You have to really prepare a bench because for me, the best way to know if you achieve that is when you can go on vacation and be off. When I joined ACE, I'm like, I want to be able to just go on vacation and hear nothing. Like, don't bother me. If this is an emergency, hang up and call 911.

13:39I don't want anything. I want my team to be so on point that this can happen.

13:44Megan Weis: I feel like that's important. Maybe some CFOs out there are threatened by that, the fact that they could be replaced. I'm not sure. Oh, I'm not. Come sit here. And we talked a little bit about boards and many first-time CFOs discovered that managing the board requires an entirely new set of skills. So what advice would you give someone preparing for those conversations who may not have had the luxury of sitting on a board? At least get a mentor that's already sitting on a board. So that's what I did. So, yeah, I joined a board, but I also had a company a couple of years ago. I approached one of the board members because I had asked my CFO at a time if I could attend one of the board meetings.

14:32She said, yes, I met one of the board members. She happened to leave here in Atlanta as well. So we went for lunch and I asked her, hey, would you be open to mentor me? She was a lawyer, but also a CEO, but she was sitting on different boards. And so I was able to, every now and then we'll connect, we'll try to meet every three months, either virtually or for lunch. Be able to ask questions like, this is what happened in a board meeting. What do you think about that? How do you work with your CFO? So trying to understand from that perspective. there's also a lot of committees, professional associations that are always looking for leaders.

15:08I would definitely get my reps in that way. To me, it's all about getting the reps. So being able to be on the board, even if it's not for profit, but a board of your local chapter of AFP or AICPA, some type of organization locally, just to get to give you those reps is very helpful.

15:28Megan Weis: And as finance becomes more technology driven, how should future CFOs think about AI automation and digital transformation without losing sight of leadership and people? I think AI is just another tool in the toolbox. It's still technology itself should always be part of your leadership philosophy because it's at the end of the day to empower your people to get the job done. Like I said earlier, it's not to replace them. So make sure they have the tool to get the job done effectively. So to me, that's really how we should be thinking about it. Definitely understand the guardrails that should be there, what should be automated, what should not be automated, where we do need a human in the loop.

16:15Because I believe as finance and accounting professionals, we are always held at a higher standard than others sometimes. So I don't see a CFO getting away with, oops, AI did it. It's the fault of the AI model that we are in this situation. That won't fly. It just won't. So you always want to make sure that the output of your team, whether part of it was AI generated or not, is what it should be for the business. And so to me, it's just another tool.

16:47Megan Weis: And just curious, do you think there's ever going to be a day where it can replace people or replace the accounting profession altogether? I don't think so. People will always be people and people will always be looking for somebody to blame. For that reason alone, I'm like, there will always be people. The end decision maker will always be a human being. AI doesn't have emotions. There's a lot of time people feel before they think. AI is all thinking and algorithm and trends and all that. So even when Chagipity tries to be nice, it feels fake to you. Because you know another human being won't say that.

17:29Good questions. You know it's not how it works.

17:33Megan Weis: That's funny. And one topic that you talk about often is avoiding burnout while leading at a high level. So what habits or leadership practices have helped you sustain performance over the long term? Oh, number one is blocking my calendar. I block my calendar in the morning for focus time. I block it at the end of the day. I'm a big, big delegating more person. Like I said, I want to be off when I go on vacation. I say it in interview. I say it to my team. I do not want to be bothered. I want to be off when I'm off. Because it's often one of the reasons we end up in burnout is when you really never take a break.

18:16And so being able to delegate more and have those systems in place really help. And lastly, just give myself grace because I feel like we all have those days where you start the day with, and your to-do list is five items. And then you work on them. You have meetings. At the end of the day, your to-do list has 10 items. And it's in those moments that you just have to go, I did my best and really turn on the computer. Just go. Great advice.

18:45Megan Weis: A lot of times easier said than done, but important for sure. Yes. Yes. So looking ahead, how do you see the role of the CFO evolving over the next three to five years? I don't even think we can look out 10 years. And what new skills or mindsets are going to be critical as CFOs become more integrated into shaping company strategy? Oh, yeah. Let's look three to five years. I agree for sure. I think more CFOs will become CEOs. I have so many CFO friends that are now doing some type of COFO roles, COOs and CFOs, like CFAO, because the role I've expanded so much beyond just finance and account, traditional finance and accounting.

19:30So the skills to me that will be important in that range would definitely be about the same skills that CEO has to go through. So a lot of strategy, a lot of communication and leading through uncertainty. because as finance and accounting, when you have that background, you like uncertainty. All we do when it comes to uncertainty is do another accrual or another estimate at a low buffer. But it's way more than that when you're leading a whole organization through change and uncertainty. It takes a whole different skill set to cast a vision, set a strategy for a company. And I think more CFOs will have to really embrace that and build that skillset, not just being good at forecasting or technical accounting.

20:18Megan Weis: Well, Sia, thank you so much for joining us on today's episode. I love this topic and truly appreciate the insight you've brought to the conversation. Thank you so much for having me. Always welcome back. It's always a pleasure. Thank you. And to all of our listeners, please tune in next week. And until then, take care. You've been listening to CFO Weekly presented by Persona. Please subscribe wherever you get your podcasts to hear all of our episodes. Want to learn more? Check out persona.com. Thanks for listening.