467 | The Power of Community | Amy, Diania, and Stephen

25:10And yet, Diana, that was one thing that I was really heartened by at Economy. So Economy 2023 was actually, crazily enough, the first post-COVID live event that I've been to. And in all honesty, I didn't know what to expect just generally about Economy, which I subsequently found out I've coined as the largest FI gathering in the world. It was just extraordinary in every way. But I was shocked at how many new people there were to the community who came to the event. And it just, I don't know what I feared. I think on some level, I feared that new people weren't still finding the FI community en masse, but that was quickly put to bed when I showed up at Economy and just heard these amazing stories of, I mean, by the dozens of people who were brand new.

25:57And I think what Steven said was maybe we have changed. And that's the cool thing is each of us are at a different point in our FI journey. I'm at a different point, certainly than I was in 2017 when I went to my first Camp Phi, which was called Camp Mustache back then. And I feel a little different, but it's wonderful to see all these new people. I love if you had any thoughts on just this whole evolution, but just really the fact that new people are still finding Phi. I mean, by the bucket load, it's remarkable. Yeah. Well, I think that the concept of fire attracts a really special kind of person, a really genuine, authentic kind of person, and even more so when it comes to in-person events, because it doesn't take a lot of effort to join an online forum or a Facebook group, but it actually takes a ton of effort to find childcare, to take time off of work, to buy a plane ticket, to be out of your environment.

26:53I think the kind of people that would go to an in-person event and exhibit that kind of effort are people that really care and are very intentional about the way they live their lives. I mean, think about how intentional we are about how we spend money, about what we put in our bodies and what we eat and how we exercise. But when it comes to human connection relationships, a lot of us are subject to who's conveniently around us, right? We're friends with our neighbors. We're friends with the people we went to school with or the people that we work with. But to get on a plane and very specifically seek out the kind of people you want to influence you and surround yourself with, I think is a big statement of what kind of person you are.

27:39And so I just find that I'm always wowed by the quality of people that show up to these events. They're extremely intelligent, extremely creative, and very generous. And when you combine those three things, it's like you are bound to walk away learning something new and feeling a sense of reinvigoration about your FIRE path. I always say, come to economy to fuel your FIRE because FIRE is better with friends. It just simply is. Yeah. I love also just how intelligent and creative people are. It is astonishing. You can sit at any given table at any of these events and just be blown away. Like, it's funny because I guess, obviously, on some level, I'm well known in this community because of this podcast.

28:27But I always feel like, why is anybody asking me questions? I have nothing to add compared to just the wealth of knowledge. So that's what's great. And I'm saying that, obviously, self-deprecatingly. But there is some truth to it in the sense that you get just an extraordinary, extraordinary type of person to show up to these events because, like you said, it is self-selecting. And Amy, I think I want to talk to you about self-selection because you just ran your first event in Bali, Indonesia, which takes an altogether different level of self-selection for someone to take essentially with travel and such at least a week out of their life to travel maybe halfway around the world.

29:09I'd love to hear, well, A, just a little bit about the event the last time we talked to you. So this was the very first Five Freedom Retreat. Tell us how it went. give us an update and talk about maybe that type of person who's maybe looking for something a little bit different, maybe an adventure. I don't know how you even would conceptualize it, but talk us through it. Yeah. Like Diana said, I was surprised at people coming from a distance and it was their first five events. So I had six people who'd never been to campfire economy. I was surprised. I'm like, how did you find me? A lot of people are on podcasts, but yeah, a lot of people traveled very far and I just have to hand it to them.

29:47And I did not take it lightly that they would spend their time and hard-earned money to come all the way to Bali. Sometimes they don't know me at all, but it was a great event. I really wanted people to get full value and I love Bali. I've lived in Asia for 22 years, but Bali is my chosen home and the place I've lived for many years now. So I really wanted to have a lot of pre and post events. The five-day retreat was awesome. I was really happy with all the speakers. I really wanted to honor Bali. So I brought in, you know, a Balinese speaker who's doing amazing work on the island, helping women who've been in domestic violence situation, children with disabilities.

30:24You know, I was able to give part of my proceeds to them. And then we raised money for the center. We did a lot pre and post event biking, hiking volcanoes. We went to an island for over a week. So people came not for a week. Some people stayed for four to five weeks. And we did a lot. We went rafting, we went, you know, water temple ceremony blessings, we went to like a sustainable village tourism initiative. There was a lot of time, you know, there, of course, the speakers were awesome, the breakout sessions were great. But there was a lot of time sitting around the pool, having meals together on excursions, exploring Bali together as a group.

31:03And so it really gave people a huge opportunity to really bond, develop deeper friendships and have those conversations in a more vulnerable level because they really got to know each other in a very deep way. Yeah. I mean, that sounds remarkable. And I think what you just hit on about kind of comparing the formal portion of each of these events and the informal, right? The sitting around, the meals, the downtime. And I know it sounds like, obviously, Amy, I didn't attend, but I've attended both Camp Fi and Economy. And I know both Steven and Diana have went out of their way to add in a lot of these unstructured times.

31:42It's interesting, right? There's so much value to be had from hearing a speaker or having a workshop. But I think the magic happens, at least for me, in the downtime. So I'm curious if any of you want to jump in on that, on how do you structure this? Like, how do you think about, okay, clearly I don't want to just say here's 16 waking hours, go talk, right? Like that doesn't make for an event, but understanding that, that a lot of that unstructured time is really where the magic happens. Yeah. So early on, whenever I was looking at how I was going to sort of schedule out the weekend for Camp Fi, I did have a somewhat a template from attending a Camp Mustache in 2016.

32:26So I took that experience and then sort of tweaked it to what I would like more of. And one of those things was establishing a little bit more formal so that we could relax even more when it was off. So what I mean by that is, you know, it's good for people to have shared experiences as a group. It gives people something to talk about, something to connect with. But then you can go and sort of talk about what the speaker said. But for me, and I think for a lot of people, we don't want to go to like a conference where we're just getting fed information like a fire hose where we just can't process any of it.

33:03You know, where every minute is scheduled out and it's talk after talk after talk and everybody's writing notes and everything. And then you're just exhausted. So I think a good balance for me, and I was hoping at the time for other people would be have some good, solid, formal-ish shared experiences with some downtime where you can go and take a rest, where you can communicate with other people and bond over what you just learned. And it just seemed to work. Yeah, I would totally agree with that. Economy is structured pretty similarly in that we have something to kind of get the ball rolling, and then you let people take it from there.

33:39So like, for example, we kick off Friday night leading into the weekend with a speed friendshipping session that you co-hosted with me last time. And from my post event survey, this was the favorite activity of the weekend because many people are showing up alone, right? And they feel a little intimidated. I mean, we had over 400 people at the last economy conference. It's a little intimidating to walk into a room, especially if you're an introvert and just say, okay, I'm going to make friends. Despite how warm the environment and the crowd is, that still is a little challenging. And so we were able to facilitate group discussions where you were going to meet that first night, 14 people, that then you would probably be more likely to be comfortable going up to them the rest of the weekend during some of those more free form open times.

34:33And people pay to go to these events. Again, this is a frugal community, right? These are people that are very intentional about how they spend money. What you're paying for is to participate in the community. When it comes to a lot of the formal presentations, and I do challenge myself to really bring in provocative content that maybe you wouldn't hear elsewhere, I want people to feel like they learned something new. And that's going to happen regardless, whether it's from a formal presentation or it's just from a side conversation that you have, you're going to walk away with learning something new.

35:06But I very intentionally put all of the videos of the main stage speeches online because I feel like if that's the number one thing that you want, I will give that to you for free. Don't buy a ticket for that, right? Because I think it's so important that you're getting the appropriate amount of value for the money that you're spending. And so I want you participating in the community if you're going to attend. So that's why I give those presentations away for free. But you just... I feel like we are hitting it from so many angles. Everyone says community matters. But when you really dive into it, it's just...

35:40There's a lot of different ways to look at it. I think about when you listen to your favorite band at home. Yeah, that's great. You enjoy the music. But wouldn't we all agree that watching them live in concert in a crowd just is a different, more impactful experience. Same thing with watching a movie, right? You go and watch a movie in a packed theater, your experience is altered by the energy in the room. And every event I have gone to, I've watched maybe a TED Talk online, but then I went and actually saw TED Talks Live. It's just a completely different experience. And I think it helps you integrate what you're learning in a new and different way.

36:22Yeah. Altered by the energy in the room. That is so true. There is something deeply fundamentally true about that. And I think those examples you used are absolutely perfect. And I think what we did with the speed friendship was it gave people a home base, right? It gave people 14 others that, okay, this is my home base. When I look out on this room of 400 people, I'm going to feel comfortable going up and speaking with them. So I think that was good. And frankly, Amy, you and I hit on something, I think, in the breakout session at Economy that you were nice enough to help me with. I think what we did was we made it really about the people attending that.

37:01It wasn't a presentation. It was, okay, we're going to talk for a few minutes and give you a prompt. And then we broke everybody up into these little groups. And it was about taking action. What actions are you going to take? and we made them accountability groups. And we offered, share your information. And hopefully you're going to keep in touch with this small little group of four and make it accountability partners. And that's what I would advise anybody to do. I think that to me is like the running theme here is be open, be vulnerable, talk about real things and rely on other people and have them rely on you.

37:37This is not just show up and have a beer and talk about where you went on your last trip. You can do that with anybody on earth, right? Phi community events are special because and precisely because we're being open. We're willing to be that little bit vulnerable. And yeah, I mean, Amy, I thought, I don't know how, what the alchemy was that we came up with that, but that worked out marvelously. Yeah, and I feel like that's important. You know, I mentioned speakers earlier, but really having facilitators leading the audience through discussions. At Five Freedom, a lot of the facilitators were giving prompts to the audience.

38:18They were writing notes. They were journaling. They were turning and talking. They were in groups of four. They had accountability groups. So I think the more that we set up situations where the audience is really grappling with the information instead of passively listening, I think it's helpful as well because I know that helps me. and you know I was a teacher for a lot of years so like the more that I could get the students talking to each other or you know the more opportunities we can give in our events for people to talk to each other and learn from each other because you know as Diana says like there's so much knowledge in the room so much warmth and support yeah actually and I feel like Stephen needs a turn because I tend to talk too much um but riff off of this Stephen so it's funny Amy that you mentioned all this because literally as we're talking I get an email that comes in and I shouldn't have checked it but it just I got a notification and it's from someone who just signed up for the economy conference and she says I'm registered for the upcoming conference with my sister I'm extremely new to the idea of FI and I'm worried I'm going to be too much of a newbie to relate to everyone is there any room at the conference for someone who's just getting started How amazing for this email to pop up as we're having this discussion, because I really do think that there is room for everyone.

39:36I've seen it myself. And what I love about in-person events is I think it highlights the diversity in the movement that you may not realize when you read about it online. I know for myself, I got this perception that everyone was so buttoned up and everybody knows more than me. And so I might not fit in. But especially from seeing these case studies, I feel like I have a front row seat to how diverse the movement actually is and how the reality is this stuff is kind of messy. And when you look at online versions that are very polished, it gives you the perception that everyone is further along than you or knows more than you.

40:16But I think when you really dig into the messiness by, let's say, looking at a case study, I mean, I'm amazed sometimes at how far along people are on their path to FI and they never heard of a backdoor Roth and we blow their minds while they're presenting their numbers. It's just we're all at a different place in our journey. We've all been exposed to different information. And really, I don't think there's any right way to pursue FI, even though there's a perception that there's a way to do this. I think the only thing all of us actually agree on is to spend less than you earn and invest the difference.

40:51That's our one mutual thing that I think we can all agree on. Everything else is up for debate. And that, I think, is what makes these events so robust and what has us keep coming back. Like I've been to 10 camp fives or 11 camp fives or something like that. Like most people would say, didn't you, you got what you needed out of it. You learned what you needed to learn, but no, it's like every time I go, I learned something new or I'm exposed to a way of thinking that alters my path. And I think that's a beautiful thing. Yeah, it is. It's remarkable that you did just get that email. That's great.

41:28I get emails like that as well, but I'll say is if you are, again, if you haven't attended one of these things and you think you might be not far enough along, then that is where you need to be. You do need to go. I want Camp Phi to be something, and I'm sure, Diana, you want Economy to be this, and Amy, you want Phi Freedom Retreat to be this, but you want something that can provide a lot of value. And in my mind, the people that can get the most value are people who are currently disconnected from the community. People who might feel anxious about their seemingly insurmountable path to financial independence.

42:07People who are just newly exposed to all of this whole FI concept. So those are the people who are going to get the most value. Now, it doesn't mean that Diana, you've been to a number of camp FIs. Amy, you've been to a number of camp FIs. I've been to a number of economies. We still get value out of these things. But to me, the most value is those people who come for that first time, because it's just like something changes and being plugged into this community and being connected, it just really does open up a ton of possibility and the feeling of possibility that you might not otherwise have received.

42:42And so you just think so much is possible. All those ideas that you've been holding off on or all those steps that you haven't taken, like now you know that it's going to be okay, most likely, if you start moving in that direction. And it's just, to me, that's just the value of what these events bring. I actually thought it would be fun to maybe go around and provide examples of things that we've seen of attendees getting a ton of value. Because that, to me, is the most exciting part of producing an event is seeing the impact, is seeing that. We all recognize that we want to spend money on what we value.

43:21We want to get the appropriate amount of value out of the money that we're spending. And when I get notes from people that are like, this far exceeded my expectations, I got so much more out of it than I thought I would. And just hearing those stories always blow me away. So I'd love to hear from you guys what you've seen come out of this form of in-person connection. Yeah, I love that. And while you're thinking of that, I just wanted to just quickly chime in on what Steven just said. It really is a judgment-free zone. I think a lot of us, Diana, like you said, everybody thinks, oh, everybody else is all buttoned up.

43:53They have it all figured out. Nobody has it figured out. We're all just imperfect humans and we're trying to just live the best life we can. And like Amy said much earlier in the conversation, the conversation you're most scared of is the one you need the most, right? So I think if that gives you that little push, that little impetus to get up off the couch and attend one of these events, it's precisely because you're scared. That's why you should do it. So anyway, that's my little interlude for the thinking break. Who has an example of something really tangible that people have taken away? I know something that I like to think about.

44:29There was an instance with Camp Fi early on, there was a woman who attended and she was more, as is often the case, whenever you have couples, there's going to be one that's sort of super gung-ho, let's do the financial independence thing. And then you have the one that might be less on board. And this was the case. And so she brought her significant other. And at the beginning of the weekend, you could tell he wasn't super comfortable. He was skeptical. He didn't know really what he had gotten himself into or what his partner had brought him to. And then by the end of the weekend, he was interacting, looking like he was enjoying himself.

45:06And later on, I crossed paths with her at a FinCon, and she stopped and told me that before that weekend, she wasn't sure they would ever see eye to eye on money and their money philosophies. And that put a potential wedge between them, like a concern that she had. She wasn't sure about long-term with their relationship. But after that weekend, she told me later on at FinCon that they got engaged. So she got comfortable enough with their different financial, I guess, philosophies to move their relationship further. So to me, I mean, I think I remember, I think I teared up when she was telling me that, because that's huge.

45:41Yeah, that's amazing. A lot of people, I guess, when they don't see eye to eye money-wise, they might have underlying tensions in their relationship that eventually cause it to end. And so to be able to find someone that you can connect with either initially or in their case, eventually through attending a camp and have confidence moving forward in the relationship and making it more serious. I think at the time she told me they were engaged. So to me, that's something I got a lot of value out of hearing it. And it appears that their relationship got a lot of value as well. Yeah. Amazing. I guess I'll chime in because I feel like I put everyone on the spot.

46:18But along the same kind of vein as Steven, again, it is all about community and relationships. And I have this belief that the person you partner up with, your spouse, is probably one of the most important decisions of your life. I think we all kind of recognize that's a big decision, right? And the idea that you could find your spouse or someone that you're going to build a life with at one of these events. I have multiple examples of people meeting this way. So there's one couple that met at the 2020 event. And then in 2021, seeing them show up hand in hand, they had just moved in together. Now they've just moved across the country together.

47:01I think about them and it makes me really proud to have created something that could facilitate that level of connection. I know of another couple that actually had their first date at a campfire and now they're traveling the world together. I don't know why. It just makes me want to crash all these weddings. Maybe I'm just a hopeless romantic, but I know it's something that is discussed a lot in the fire community. How can I find someone if I'm on the fire path How do I find someone compatible? Get on a plane and put yourself in the room with people that have this mutual interest because I just think it could go a long way.

47:41Yeah, agreed. And Amy, obviously at the time of recording, your event ended less than four weeks ago. So I don't imagine you have tons of stories, but I'm curious either A, from your event or B, just from events you've been to. You talked about getting jobs potentially from events. Do you have any story or two that might be of interest? Yeah. First, I just want to take a moment to acknowledge the three of you and what you've created. Because, you know, I mean, Stephen, like to start with you, like 42 events, it's phenomenal. And when I came to my first Campfire, I signed up for right after that.

48:15I'm going to go to Campfire Texas and I'm going to go to Campfire Florida. And, you know, the impact that you have had over 42 events over a lot of years now is profound. like lifelong friendships, relationships, romantic relationships. And it's phenomenal. And I know I tell you after every campfire, but I mean it. And Diana, I mean, when I came to economy, it was so well organized. Like the quality of the event is phenomenal. And we're talking 400 people and how you can create and design it in a way where people feel brought in and introverts can have their, you know, their home of 14 people, you know, the way you design it so intentionally is so meaningful.

48:58And I brought my friend Margaret, who had never even heard about the five hour movement. And I'm like, come do this thing with me. And she, she loved it. And then, and then what you've done, Brad, with this ChooseFI community and all the meetups, like, you know, I feel so honored to be on this podcast because I have only had one event. And so I'm just, you know, so grateful to all of you who came before me and have created this incredible community that when I joined it, I was like, I'm in. This is my family. I love it. And yeah, I mean, I feel that there is something special when we get together.

49:27And I think about a woman who came to my event. She reached out, never met me. And we had a couple of Zoom calls because she was nervous. And in fact, she almost pulled out. She said, I don't know anybody. I've never been to Asia. I feel nervous about going. And I didn't pressure her in any way. But I just said, if you feel the call and if you feel open to coming, we're going to be traveling together afterwards. And she ended up initially, she was just going to come for a week and a half. And I said, Why don't you stay for longer? She ended up asking for 90 days off work. And she's they're still traveling together.

49:58They're still in Thailand together this group for my retreat. So she's traveling around Southeast Asia for 90 days. And just to think about the fear of she said, you know, for so many years, I've been saying I want to travel more. but it was kind of scary to do it on my own. And I just had this instant ability. And now the whole world is opened. Like she sees new possibilities. She realizes that job is not really aligned for her anymore. And so, you know, she's redesigned her whole life. So it's just incredible when we go and like, as Diana said, you know, take time off, get the babysitter, you know, fly, spend the money, like being in a different environment and devoting several days to really honestly look at how are you spending your money and your time?

50:42And does it align with your values and listening to other people and learning what you don't know? Because that's what I've all the pieces I didn't know. I didn't even know how to Google that. But having those conversations around the fire at Camp Fi and in that friendship circle at economy, you know, in the meetups that I've been to as well, it's powerful. So I just encourage listeners to have the courage to go to something, find the meetup group, find the local event, whatever you can attend. But this community is super special. Amy, that was so beautifully put. And that to me is the perfect way to close out this episode on the power of community.

51:17I could not come up with a better way if you gave me 10 years to describe it. So let's leave it there. Like you said, there are these, the local groups. So choosefi.com slash local. You can find there, I think last count of about 350 local groups. And like I said earlier, we're really trying to make them better, to augment with case studies and other best practices from groups. And I'm taking a personal hand in this from now on. So really sign up for your, the closest local group, but let's go around and Diana, why don't you start, tell people where to find you, how to get in touch, where the conference is, et cetera.

51:53Sure. So the next Economy Conference, it's in Cincinnati, Ohio. It will always be in Cincinnati, Ohio. It is March 15th through 17th of 2024. You can go to economyconference.com. And that's economy with an M-E at the end, not an M-Y. Fun little plan words there. But economyconference.com, you can read all about the programming, the schedule, the speakers. You can sign up for our mailing list there. And if you use the discount code, choose FI one word, you can get 10 % off tickets for the next event. So looking forward to partying with you in Cincinnati. Yeah. And I will be there. So I'm very excited about my second economy conference.

52:35So yeah, that should be a ball. Steven, I know you have a bunch of events. Where can people, where's the central gathering place? Yeah. So you can go to campfi.org. So campfi.org, The schedule for 2024 is all complete and up. We'll have one in January in Florida, another one in March in Florida, Mid-Atlantic, which is Memorial Day weekend next year, end of May. We'll have two in Colorado Springs in the summer. We'll have one in Minnesota, early September Labor Day weekend. And then next October, we will have our 49th and 50th Camp Fi in Julian, California, which is Camp Fi Southwest. and then we'll finish out the year with number 50 on my birthday, October 17th in Texas, which is just in Denton, Texas, just north of Dallas.

53:21So campfi.org, you can check out the whole schedule there. That is incredible. 50 events and your eighth year. That is truly, truly remarkable. And Amy, Five Freedom Retreat number two, 2024. What are the details? Or do you have them yet? Yes, I do. Five Freedom Retreats. So listeners can go to fivefreedomretreats with an S dot com happening November 1st through 5th, 2024 in Bali. And shout out to the Singaporeans and the Australians who came last year. You know, I'm really also creating, it's wonderful to have Americans there. And I'm really wanting to create this diverse international community where we can have these conversations and people can experience the multi-day event in Asia.

54:05So I'm super excited about next year. Wow. Incredible. So five freedom retreats, plural campfi.org economy conference.com. Steven, Diana, Amy, this is incredible. Thank you all for being here. Thank you for listening to today's show and for being part of the choose a fight community. If you haven't already, the best ways to get involved are first subscribe to the podcast. So you're listening to this on a podcast player and just hit subscribe and then subscribe to my weekly newsletter. I actually sit down every Monday and write this by hand and I send it out Tuesday morning. So just head over to choosefi.com slash subscribe.

54:44And it's really, really easy to get on the newsletter list right there. And I would greatly appreciate it. It's the best way to get in touch with me. You can actually just hit reply to any of those emails and it comes directly to my inbox. So that's the way that I keep a pulse of the community and how we keep this the ultimate crowdsourced personal finance show. And finally, if you're looking to join an in real life community, we have Chooseify local groups in 300 plus cities all around the world. So head to chooseify.com slash local and you'll find a list of all of those cities in 20 plus countries all across the world.

55:18And if you're just getting started with FI or you have a family member or a friend who you think would be interested, two easy ways. Chooseify episode 100 is kind of our welcome to the FI community. and even though it's a couple years old at this point, it still stands up and it's a really great just starting point to get an understanding of what is financial independence? What are we doing here? Why are we looking to live a more intentional life where we save money and use it as a springboard to live a better life? And then Choose a Vi created a Financial Independence 101 course. That's entirely free.

55:53Just head to choosefi.com slash fi101. And again, thanks for listening. Thank you.