612 | What Actually Happened? | Paige's FI Journey, Nine Years Later

0:00Hello and welcome to Chooseify. Before we get started, I wanted to give you a little context for this episode. Earlier this week, I re-released one of my favorite episodes from the early days of Chooseify, episode 41 with Paige and Sam. It was one of those stories that really stuck with people. Here was someone living in LA on a modest income, embracing DIY, believing that the alley will provide, and pursuing financial independence in a way that felt accessible and real. But today's episode is the one I'm really excited about. When we first talked to Paige back in 2017, she had a plan. She had a phone number.

0:34She had a vision for what her life would look like. Now, nine years later, I get to ask the question. I almost never get to ask, what actually happened? Did the plan work? Did life go according to that plan? What surprised her? What did she get right? And what changed along the way? I think these follow-up conversations are some of the most valuable ones we can have because it's easy to talk about what we think is going to happen. It's much rarer to hear from someone who's actually lived it. FI isn't about predicting the future perfectly. It's about building a life that's resilient enough to adapt to when life inevitably surprises you.

1:08And I think Paige's story is a wonderful example of that. I hope you enjoy my conversation with Paige. And with that, welcome to Choose That FI.

1:19Before we get started, I keep this podcast entirely ad-free for two reasons. First, this is a FI podcast and I don't want to promote products that I don't want you to buy in the first place. And second, I really like the clean listening experience of a show where you don't have to fast forward ads. To keep it ad-free, all I ask of you as a listener is the next time you open a travel rewards credit card, go to choosefi.com slash cards. And with that, on to the show.

1:48Paige, welcome back to Choose Fi after nine years. This is so fantastic to have you here. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. So your episode 41 was one of those episodes that struck a chord with people. I think there were so many reasons. There was living in a high cost of living area, but doing it on a lower income and really a budget that people could look at and say, okay, look, any middle class person can do this. And DIY was another major aspect that you and Sam talked about. And of course, I would be remiss if I didn't start with the alley will provide. Right. That's one of the most amazing things we've ever heard here on 700 plus episodes.

2:28So does the alley still provide? Yes. Yeah. It still works. If you wait long enough, something inexpensive or free will show up to meet a need for whatever reason is tried and true. I love that. Okay. What are the different aspects? So I know it is literally alleys sometimes, but. Yes. We'll start at an alley. It's more not an alley now. Okay, let's hear about the 2026 version. Yes, I have two really good ones. One is we've moved into our house. We've been here a little while. I had started looking around. I wanted a couple of outdoor chairs, something cool, something retro. We're very retro. Our house is 100 years old.

3:11We wanted something very retro. And we're walking down our street and our neighbor is pulling out these two, you know, the kind of steel 1950s style outdoor furniture with the curved legs. And I'm like, oh, are you giving those away? And he was like, well, I was throwing them away. I'm like, cool, I will take them. And Sam picked up one, I picked up the other and we brought them home and cleaned them up and they look great. And they're sitting in my front yard to this day. Love them. That's cool. Yeah, that's very cool. So it's just that thing where it's like, if you're looking for something, it'll show up, you know, at least that's been our experience.

3:50Okay. Nice. My mind always goes to like college move out day where people put the most amazing stuff just literally on the curb because they don't want to cart it hundreds of miles back home or wherever they live. Are there places that somebody who's listening to this, maybe they're not in a city where there literally are allies like, and that's of course proverbial for many people, but like where would one look? So we do combo. So we do a lot of like Facebook marketplace. They have a free section and I have a garden full of bricks that Sam has gone and gotten for me that I have laid in the garden to create this little, you know, all the pathways in my garden have been with free bricks that have come from the free section of either Craigslist old days or Facebook marketplace free section.

4:40And the other thing is, is sometimes your neighborhood will have a big item pickup weekend. And then all your neighbors, like a move out day, are just pulling their stuff to the curb. In the day of Ikea, it's a little harder to find good stuff. But if you just keep your eye out, it seems to still work for us. I mean, we still end up with some really cool stuff, especially like the bricks. I mean, totally transformed my front yard completely for free. Oh, I believe it. Now, has this become like part of your identity? Like, I don't mean this in a negative way. No, no, no. In any way. I wasn't taking it negative.

5:18Is there some aspect where like this is fun and accumulating stuff and just like finding ways to rehab and refurnish? Like, is that part of the fun or is it just like we are looking for something specific And when we find it, then we incorporate it into our lives or some variation thereof. I think it's kind of a variation. So I'm an artist. Sam is, I'm more of an actual visual artist and he's more of a writer type artist, a writer, musician type artist. And so some of it is, that's the way we think about curating our space is we want it to look and feel a certain way. and sometimes there's certain things that need to come along to make that happen.

6:01We sort of see our house as like a giant art collage project. And sometimes you have to have more stuff than you need, and that can be what it is in order to make that work. But in the end, you know, we've been very fortunate that when things come together, we can end up with something really lovely. And then, you know, you try to get rid of the extra that didn't work out. And that can be where conflict lies. But other than that, it works for us. And we do live a very funky, bohemian, visually lifestyle. So we are not the fine minimalists. No, nothing wrong with that. That's for damn sure. And it makes me want to see maybe sometime when I head out to L.A.

6:49Snap on by. Absolutely. so and it's just a fun spirit of adventure really is how i see you guys and which is great like and the whole concept of diy it's funny because that really was a large aspect of what we talked about in the early years on choose if i and frankly like not for any overt reason but we just we haven't had many people come on and talk about diy but you two were memorable to me in terms of like hey this can be a superpower i'm curious like what does that look like now i'm trying to thank some of our last I had taught myself to plaster walls. I don't know if I talked about that last time.

7:26And so we've saved a lot of money on kind of home improvement things. We've done pretty much everything. We handmade all of our trim that's around our windows and doors. We wanted to kind of like take it up a notch from the sort of builder. And this is 1925 builders. You know, we wanted something a little more, a little higher end looking. And so Sam was able to take all the scraps we had and like put it together to make this really lovely trim. And so we've been able to save a lot doing a lot ourselves. I will say that as you go along, that sense of what you're willing to spend money on and what you want to DIY kind of adjusts a little because the more resources you have, that aperture of things that you can do widens.

8:19So sometimes, but time doesn't widen. It's finite in the sense of like there's 24 hours in a day and that's it. And so there are things that we're a little bit more willing to, I got a camper recently, it's a 2005 Airstream. And we've done some of the things ourselves, we redid the battery system and things like that. But I'm going to take it to a place to do some other maintenance on it that we're capable of. But at some point, you just say to yourself, there's other projects that really need my skills that I want my skills that I want what I do to be a part of it. And that is not re-caulking a roof of the Airstream.

9:05And so it's not going to be important that I did that. And so we do outsource a few things now that we probably didn't in the old days out of maybe the more scarcity of resources. I think that's kind of a real thing. I would assume that's normal for people. As your journey goes on, your resources change and And then your priorities shift and you have to shift those priorities. Otherwise, you know, what are you doing? Totally agree. And yeah, I mean, I think anything taken to its extreme, even something that's laudable and good can be a negative. It can turn into a negative. Yeah, absolutely. You only have a certain finite number of hours in a week caulking a roof of an air stream.

9:48All right. Maybe that isn't exactly the highest use of your time. But that said, DIY has served you exceptionally well. And you would never look back and say like any of these amazing skills you learned were bad. It's just that, okay, I'm in a different spot right now and I'm still learning new skills and learning new things and DIYing, but maybe I don't have to do every aspect of it. And that's not a conflict. That's growth as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, I think so. And it's also just picking and choosing like what are things that it is best for us to DIY because we want them to be this unique thing that requires only us.

10:24or what could we hire someone to do? Like Sam is building a shed in our back area and someone poured the slab because that is not unique. That is just a slab of concrete. But what he is doing to build it for himself, designing it as he goes, adding as he goes, no one else could do that. He has to do it all himself and he has driven almost every nail except for when he can drag me out there to drive some nails. And I would say, I mean, at this point, we're at like 80 % of the materials being free and upcycled. It is very rewarding. And that's when it's worth it. Yeah. I love that. Like I said, it's been nine years.

11:10And when we last left you, it was 2017. I think you were somewhere around 47 years old, plus or minus. Yeah, it had to have been somewhere in there. But you had told me that your first positive net worth was that year. So 2017. Yes. And you, I know, had worked up to making, I think, somewhere in the high 50s in terms of salary. And this is in Los Angeles, right? Yeah, I was at 58K, I want to say, when we spoke. At least that's what, I think I even wrote that down somewhere. And that might be the only reason I remember it. So that's what's so amazing about five, right? So you found, I know Sam introduced FI to you in 2014, 2015 with Mr.

11:54Money Mustache and you started making moves. And like you said, you hit your first positive net worth in your mid to late 40s. And you had a goal back then, I think, of$350 ,000 for your FI number. Yeah, my FI number was$350 ,000 to retire age 55. Okay. And yeah, I was well on my way. I mean, I feel like I would have made it then even, but then life happens and things change. And I had to quit that job for reasons that there was a must hire situation where someone got a job that I should have gotten. But I had the ability to say, I'm not going to stand for this. I had the money and I just said, okay.

12:44I said, I'll give you the two weeks. it'll take to train this person. But, and I just quit kind of out of the blue. I had no plan, but I had this money that I'd never had before. And this was probably, I want to say 2019. So just two years after we had spoken and the person who I was supposed to train, I think she was a little self-conscious about what had happened. And she was like, no, no, no, I'm good. I don't need anything. She had never done the job before. And I was like, oh, okay, well, I get two weeks of playing around, visiting with my friends. Then I was working on the Sony lot and I was down on the main street and I bumped into a person I had worked with a couple of years earlier and she'd left to go work on shows.

13:29She was like, oh my God, it's so great to see you. I'm like, yeah. And she's like, what are you up to? I'm like, I just quit my job. Literally minutes ago. Yeah. Literally like a day ago. And she was like, oh, cool. I'm just starting a new job. I will hire you. I was like, oh, well, I technically gave two weeks. She was like, okay, the job will start in three weeks. Let's do it. And I was like, okay. And it was like a whole new chapter of my life. The door just got blown open and it's really, really been lovely. We've worked together ever since. She's a wonderful person. We're friends beyond her being my boss.

14:05and it's been a really great experience. In the beginning, I think it was a slight loss. I lost a little bit of money, but then because I was working with someone who knew me and trusted me, she trained me and I worked my way up the ladder to being a post-production supervisor. And I can't say that I'm no longer, I'm no longer like low income in a high spending area, and that really made a difference to my what my five became. So I feel like I lost out on that, you know, sort of that little bragging point, but no loss for me. No, certainly no loss. Let's be clear. But I mean, the cool thing is you had planned, like you said, 350 K was your, your fine number, which suggests your annual spending was less than$15 ,000 or thereabouts.

14:57Yeah. I mean, I'm trying to think of what the number was. I feel like, because it's also, I'm older than a lot of other people. So in the FI community, not a lot, but so I was not retiring until I was 55 and it's bigger now than it was then. Then I was very much an anomaly. And now I feel like there's more of us, you know, there's more of us than there ever has been. And I mean, older folks, but yeah, I feel like, I think my budget was 22 ,000 because I had social security coming in a relatively short period of time. So I was planning on spending at a higher percentage until my social security came in and then cutting.

15:40And lest anyone think I'm a crazy person, Big Earn did confirm at one of the five conferences that he thought I could do it too. So I feel like I had made a solid choice at that point. And then when I started working for this new person, she had her own retirement thing. She's got a bit of a golden handcuff to a union here in Los Angeles, the motion picture union. And she was like, well, I want you to stay and work through this time, which was past where I wanted to work to by three years. I was like, okay, I will do three extra years. So I actually tacked three extra years on and I am technically inside that, but she got a gig that is a consulting gig.

16:31So I can't work with her right now. So I'm taking a sabbatical year and kind of test driving my five, which has actually been really good. That first time you take money out. Tell me about that. Cause I think that's something I give some people the shakes. I've been saying it's, it's a little discomfort for maybe five minutes. But frankly, I have not done it and you have. So I'm curious what that experience was. Yeah, it was bigger than you think it's going to be. I mean, not crazy, you know, let's not be crazy, but it's something you've spent all this time, you've saved all this money. It's so important.

17:06And then you go in and you're like, okay, this is it. And I found myself like really teetering around on like, oh, how do I want to do this? And finally, I had to kind of because I was just in there and I was about to do it, just like pull the plug, do it. And I was like, no, no, no, I need to know what I'm doing. And so I sat down and I created a plan and decided that I felt more comfortable doing it quarterly because Sam does his yearly and no, I couldn't do it. So I decided to go quarterly and that has served me well. Like it really helps me feel comfortable because I always say to people who question like, well, what if the market does this or the market does that?

17:51And you say, well, you're not taking all your money all at once and you're not going to take your newest money. You're probably going to take your oldest money or older money. You know, you set it to do the best choice for your taxes, but you're not taking it all. So that's not a big deal. As a matter of fact, I just had to go and I'm at a new quarter and I had to pull the quarter. And I went in and of course it tells you like, Oh, for the day you're down X amount. Cause today the market is a little down. And I was like, Oh, okay, whatever. I just took my money. You know, you just, I think for myself, and I think I said this on the last time we spoke, it's like, you either trust the math or you don't trust the math.

18:37And I trust the math. it has served me and i've trusted the math for 10 years and it's worked like no part of it has not worked during the 10 years that i have been on my journey now given everybody's talk of like ai bubbles and things i have like a little section of my spreadsheet now that deals with like if a 30 crash happens how do i need to make my adjustments and what's this and what's that, you know, and clearly my number is higher than it was back then. Just because my income grew, there was no reason. And my lifestyle mostly stayed the same. So I was able to save a lot. Plus the market's been amazing.

19:27So, I mean, it's been an amazing 10 years to be on the FI journey. Oh, it certainly has. I mean, none of us in this 10 year cohort can complain. about. No, that is for sure. I'm curious though, your fine number more than doubled, which therefore suggests you're spending more than doubled. But I know last time we talked about your particular house and such, and that was well on its way. So I don't know if your living arrangements have changed, but like what has changed in your budget and has it made a material difference in your life in any way? Actually, not that much has changed in the budget.

20:03I would say there's like a slight looser feel of there's anything I want to buy. I put in my Amazon cart, I pop it over to save for later and I let it sit for, you know, which I think is a frugal woods trick. Yeah. Good. Yeah. 72 hour rule. She called that. I think that was episode 12 of choose a buy even before your episode. Wow. Yeah. So I still do those kinds of things. Here's a good example. When we first spoke to you, we had gone on a 10 day trip or a 12 day trip to England and Sam and I together, flights and everything. Thanks to your travel miles. One-on-one we did the whole trip on, I want to say it was under$2 ,000.

20:45And we just did a repeat of almost that same trip to England during this hiatus. And we did the whole trip all in for about$5 ,000. Okay. So yeah, more, but not a crazy amount. I mean, okay, we doubled, but it's still not a crazy amount for a trip of that kind. And I think it was closer to 14 or 15 days, but we let ourselves do things that if it came up, we did it. If it was there, we did it. And that loosening of the budget, and we know we can because we know that the numbers have shifted because I mean Sam's been on permanent sabbatical for longer than I have I mean he stopped working 2019 maybe and again another great 10 years and as we always joked he spent way less than I ever spent even with my frugal ways he made me look like a spendthrift, you know?

21:53And so, I mean, it's not the same, but it's not that different. It's just a slight tweak in the mindset of, can we, to, is this something that we're going to value later, like this trip, this, most of it was things that we did, like a ride on the Thames, a train ride someplace that was, we wouldn't have necessarily gone. You know, we went into Scotland to go to Edinburgh and things that we probably would, well, not just probably, we did kind of skip last time in order just to make more frugal choices. But they were all predominantly experiences that we look back now and like, oh, I mean, Edinburgh is magic.

22:38It is a beautiful place. Oh my God. It's just magically, it's magically beautiful. I will never regret going there. I think that that's kind of how the shift happens. And it's more than in our living life. It's in what we choose to do extra, where we probably splurge more. Our life is still pretty cheap. I mean, I remember when COVID hit, and we got unemployment, and I had always designed my life to be able to live on unemployment. And here that's like, I want to say it's$450 a week. And we got the supplemental. And I was able to save almost all of that. I mean, it's embarrassing. I mean, I feel embarrassed about it, but I was able to save almost all of that.

23:28And that includes when we were still employed right as the crash happened, the little COVID crash that happened. and it was my first I was still working out exactly when I would put money in the market and there had been all this talk of this thing going around and whether or not work was going to be suspended and when the little baby crash happened I was like oh well forget it I don't care if I'm going to end up unemployed I've took all of my money imported in the market I mean I think I have always said I'm one of those weird people who has like virtually no cash on hand And I went into unemployment during COVID with, I think, a thousand dollars in my savings account because I put the rest in the market.

24:08I was like, no, I'm not going to buy into this dip. I don't know when I'll see a dip of this size again in my lifetime. Wow. That's amazing because that's really hard behaviorally, right? Like humans, we all like to say that we're going to do that. Yeah. But man, when it comes time and it looks like the world is melting down, it's really hard to actually do that. So talk me through like your psychology and your thought process during that time. Because was it just as simple as, wow, this is the opportunity I've been waiting for and you dumped it in or like what other thoughts were swirling through your mind during that time?

24:44Yeah, for the most part, because I remember I had a conversation with a coworker and I said, oh my God, I just poured all my savings into the market. She's like, what are you doing? We're, there is an excellent chance we are going to be unemployed. and I was like yeah well I designed my life so that I could live on unemployment for a reason so that when I needed to I could do what I needed to do and this I mean you do not see a dip like this yeah often I mean I feel like it was like a 20 percent 30 percent it was a big dip yeah it was something I don't remember the exact peak to trough but it was something like 30 percent I think yeah it was a big dip and I was like I might not see this again in my lifetime I'm not going to miss out on this.

25:29What's funny is it encouraged her and she took half of her savings and put it in the market too. That's wild. Because she was like, I can't go into this with no savings. I'm not insane like you, but yeah, you're, you're kind of right. Like, why wouldn't I buy this sale? And I think that that's one of the things that fire kind of does to you. Cause at that point, I'd been on the journey for five years and you kind of see the market and the ups and downs a little bit differently, or at least I did. I don't know. I mean, I'd never been a market person before finding fire. So I guess I don't know.

26:10I shouldn't say, I don't know if it's different. It's just how I was, maybe it's how I was trained to see it. I don't know. That's incredible that you've internalized it like that. Cause I know a lot lot of people still in the five community who again like to believe that they'd be able to do that but then when the time comes they find it dramatically more difficult myself frankly included in that but that's really cool i i wanted to just also touch on so i don't want to get bogged down in the the actual unemployment part of it but i love the that you design your life to live your life basically it sounds like if you said 450 a week so that's what like 1800 a month thereabout.

26:45You basically design your life so that, okay, because people get triggered by crazy stuff, which I think is insane. So let's put that aside, the actual unemployment, but just you designed a plan where if all else went wrong, you could still live on about$20 ,000 a year, plus or minus. About$2 ,000 a month if I have to, I can. I'm just taking what I have now. What did that look like? I have a mortgage. We have a unique situation because Sam bought his half of our house himself and paid it off in full. We're weirdos. So he did that. It's funny because a few years later with the market, the way the market was, he was like, that wasn't the best financial.

27:29And I was like, well, but it was the right emotional move for you. So there you go. And he's like, yeah, I'm like, and it didn't stop you from firing. So you're fine. He's like, I know, but I think about it now. I probably should have a mortgage. And I'm like, yeah, well, because this is sub 3 % interest rate days. Okay. So I have a sub 3 % interest rate on that mortgage. I have a very small student loan, which also has a 4 % interest rate. Okay. And then all the regular things that everybody else has. I mean, we don't have a car payment, so I guess that's a little bit different. but I have a phone and computers and insurance and, you know, all the regular stuff.