Book Club: 'Goodbye, Things' with Liz Gets Loaded | Ep 593

22:49If I'm going to have a cup of coffee and then I'm going to rinse it out maybe and have another cup of coffee. Listen, I'm not even going to rinse it out in between, to be honest. But But if I'm going to have a raspberry tea and then I'm going to have a coffee after that, in my mind, it needs to go through the dishwasher.

23:05Ginger:Ah, okay. So you need a couple true mugs. I will tell – okay. We have – I don't even want to say we've radically downsized. We have significantly downsized. There are two adults who live in this apartment, and I think that we own four mugs. Oh, my gosh. You're already there. Well, see, I think your husband thinks we have two too many. That's true. This is what I'm saying. It might be five. I can't remember. We have four or five bucks. We probably had 20 before. Okay. You are already a master. You've already won. So let's jump to one of the rules that you thought was helpful or that you think could be helpful to other people.

23:47Yes. I love, think of the store as your warehouse. Yes. One of the ones. Yes. That was really enthusiastic. Yes.

23:57Ginger:Yes. I'll say more, but you go first. And I'd heard it. I've heard this. I think he phrases it as think of the store as your warehouse. The thing I say often to myself when I'm standing in the aisle at the supermarket going, oh, should I buy two deodorants or one is stored at the store. Especially if you live in a populated area and it's not difficult to go to the store, right? This doesn't work for everybody. If you live, whatever, far away from a grocery store, then maybe you need to buy three. But stored at the store, I just love it. And especially the way he puts it, sorry, he's like, not only do they have a ton of what you need, but they take really good care of it.

24:39It's climate controlled. There's security. It's fresh. The inventory is turning over.

24:47Ginger:We should back up a little bit for the people who are like, what are you talking about? His idea is like, you are paying this rent to like store all of these items that you could think of Costco as storing them for you, right? They're still yours because you can access them whenever you want. But you don't have to do this like warehouse upkeep. You can leave that to Costco. Yeah. I the way I've again I've reread this book a few times and I reread it again to prepare for recording this episode and that was one thing that really stuck out that I think hasn't before the way he says not only do they have it but they're taking really good care of it it really made me chuckle yeah I was so enthusiastic about it because like you I have listened to this book on audio many times like the audio book is so soothing it is and so this was one of the parts that I remember sticking out the first time I read the book, just because, like you said, there's so many books on minimalism.

25:51Ginger:There's so many different systems and like, blah, blah, blah. So it's not that often that I really have a true like reframe of like, oh, this is a really helpful way to think about storing things, right? That access can be the way that I feel safe, not having it in my home. One of the reasons I find this specific minimalism book so effective is because he really combines higher level philosophical thinking, you know, think about what your identity is, you know, say goodbye to tying your identity to your things, which I love. And then he also just gets very practical of you could just store it at the store.

26:32He says one of his low-hanging fruit rules, one of the first thing is just get rid of any duplicates. He says you can still cut if you only have one pair of scissors. You can still write if you only have one pen. Amazing. Yes, you can. Going from – oh, man. I think we do still have two pairs of scissors. Maybe it's one. I'm not sure. I kind of want to get up and go look, but I'm not going to.

26:58Ginger:okay how about this one notice that there isn't a single item you'll regret throwing away that seemed like a very controversial thing to say to me it's not true yeah even he said he got rid of something and then he went and bought it again because he wished he still had it oh that's true yeah it was a foot massager or something can you think of anything you have gotten rid of that you regretted getting rid of? I'm sure. Oh, yeah. We used to have travel scrabble. And I went to look for travel scrabble the other day. And I said, where's our travel scrabble? And my partner was like, you think we still have travel scrabble?

27:44You think with all the downsides we did, travel scrabble made the cut?

27:48Ginger:It did not. Okay, Liz, I want you to go deep because you could go buy Travel Scrabble. In fact, Target is storing it for you right now. Is there something more, even like irreplaceable, that you regret parting with? There are, it's a good question because I think that you can miss something without necessarily, I think it can be a mixed bag, right? sometimes when I look back at photos, I'll look at a specific piece of clothing that I think I might wear again if I still had it, or maybe just had a lot of sentimental value. Like I don't, I wish I still had, I remember this one dress that I had and I wore it to some significant life events and I don't still have it.

28:38It probably wouldn't still fit me if I did, but if I still had it, I would probably put it on a hanger and hang it in my closet because it had a lot of really good memories attached to it. What do you think? Do you have examples? First of all, is that good enough or do you want me to hear like wrong again?

28:56Ginger:Wrong Liz, try harder. No, no, no. Close was something that popped up in my mind. That was one thing when he said that because of the thing I was talking about before, not because you're right. Regret is not really the right word there, but things that I got rid of that if I had just not worn for a while, right, when I kind of got sick of them, then I could have like enjoyed them again. And so that's kind of that frugal piece where it's like, oh, I don't want the thing driving me is like, oh, I'm sick of this and I want a new thing. And so I can see how some of those things that I had gotten rid of, I'm like, oh, that was cute.

29:33Ginger:I wish I had held on to that. But the bigger one, And it was so funny reading his thing about you won't regret anything you get rid of. And then he gave this example of the yearbook. And I was like, oh, yeah. First time I read this, I was inspired to get rid of my yearbook. And now I regret it. So he does give this as an example. He goes, even your yearbooks, he kind of uses it as even if you give away your yearbook, you're not going to regret it. And what he says is, because if you want to look at your yearbook, you can just reach out to someone you went to school with and they'll be happy to show you theirs.

30:09And you can have, it will actually be this really nice moment of connecting. And I thought, well, that's nice if you live in Mayberry or something right down the street from everyone you went to school with, I guess. But I can't think of anybody who I could call up and go, can I look at her? I went to a lot of different schools though, so maybe that's a different situation.

30:30Ginger:I could think of one person. And that's why I was inspired. I was like, yeah, I do know someone. She's never getting rid of her yearbook because she's more sentimental than I am. I'm like, so if I need to, like, why would you need to look at your yearbook? But I just thought if I need to, I do have access to one. And the other thing that was inspiring that is at the time we were trying to downsize because we were actually going to move and we didn't, but like there was something more than just, it would be fun to throw things away. And so now that I'm still in my big house, right? I'm like, oh, I do kind of wish that I had that.

31:08Ginger:And it's not room for that. Why did I get rid of that? Yeah. Do you regret it though? You wish that you still had it? I do regret it. Because what if I want to like look up the name of someone who I was in physics with? I don't know. I don't, I can't even say why, but it's in that category of I can't get it back. I can't go buy it. I did have a good reason because we were trying to cut back, but that reason is no longer real. I do think just saying point blank that you'll never get rid of something that you regret getting rid of is a pretty hot take. Come on, dude. That has not been my experience.

31:47Sometimes I accidentally throw away a coupon. and I want it. I mean, that happens to me. Right.

31:51Ginger:And maybe the bigger point is maybe it is around that word regret and maybe that's a translation issue, right? Like maybe I do wish that I had held onto it and it's okay that I didn't, you know? And maybe that's the bigger point. It's like, you'll be okay no matter what thing you get rid of. That's a probably, if you slightly reword that, You'll never get rid of anything that you actually needed. Yeah. One of the examples he gives is he said he got rid of his bank book, which I wasn't 100 % sure. Do you think he just meant his check register? I think it's a different thing in Japan. Okay. Okay.

32:32Yeah. It was some kind of documentation related to his bank. And he said he just threw it. This made me laugh because he goes, I threw it away. And then about 10 minutes later, I Googled, what happens if I don't have my bank book? And then he went into the bank and the teller was appropriately shocked at what he had done. But he made a point. He said, surely people lose this. Surely people lose everything in a fire and somehow they still manage. So I think that sometimes about documents, like, oh, do I need to keep this original copy of my birth certificate or my whatever? And I always think, well, surely people lose this and there's got to be some kind of process for them.

33:10Ginger:Right. Yeah. You still get to be in our society, even if you don't get shunned if you lose your checkbook. Thank goodness. I loved all the 55 or 70 or however many they were having. I mean, I think it's just a really, I'm not saying I loved them all, but I think it was a really effective way to structure the book. Yeah. Okay, here's another one I want to talk about. Okay. Although now that I know you live in your tidy little apartment, I bet this isn't an issue for you. But this is that thing that like bumps up against the frugal nature thing where he says, don't get creative. What? I just laughed so hard when I read that.

33:58Ginger:Don't get creative where he's like, don't use your old yogurt container to like store your jewelry or like make a little project. and disagree hard disagree what I mean I laughed so hard when I was reading that because not only do I do that but I'm like passing on this weird behavior to my kid and it is weird because I'm always like we could make an art project out of this old I don't do that

34:34Listen, I'm a millennial. I don't throw away an Apple box. This Apple box is where I put my chopstick by my nightstand. And this Apple box that my laptop in is where my socks get rolled up in my closet.

34:46Ginger:Okay. Well, that works because you're using it, right? His point is you think you will use it. You think you're going to make a diorama, but you're not going to make a diorama. that. To be fair to the author, when we were downsizing, I had to get rid of so many good boxes and it hurt my heart. I was like, this is a really good box. And I had kind of been saving it and I wasn't using it. It was just sitting at the top of the closet because we had so much space. There was no reason not to save a good box, but then they got recycled. Yeah. Okay. So this makes me think of some of the feedback that we got from other Choose FI, people in the Choose FI community, and someone who, they didn't leave their name, but I love this part.

35:32Ginger:She said, it's important to know thyself. As the pictures in the beginning of the book, I know for myself would make me sad, right? I got a little sad too. Like my daughter made a stuffed animal on her own tonight on the laundry room floor out of scraps. And seeing the side of her face light up by the overhead light through two inches of open doorway in full concentration. Well, this just wouldn't have happened if I had minimized to Sasaki's extent. That's a really good point. I would say overall, and I say this as a person who does not have kids, you do have to read this book with a filter, with a lens, if you do have children.

36:11I had a friend who told me, oh yeah, I read that book, but I mean, it's totally unrealistic if you have kids. And I thought, yeah, you can't just live with one towel if you have children. But the principles, the ideas still apply. You don't need a hundred towels.

36:28Ginger:But it's okay to save an egg carton and to tell them to do an art project. Oh, fully. Egg cartons are what childhood is made of. 100 % agree. We got some really good comments from, I guess, these are the people who showed up to book club and actually read the book, right? Yes. Yeah. But everyone, everyone else listening is, or the people who show up for the wine in conversation, which is totally fine. Sometimes that's me, but I love a message that we got from some sunny day and I'll just read part of it. However, Eileen maximalist and design preferences and having a variety of things and the hunting and gathering and making do with what I have brings me a lot of joy.

37:12Girl, same, same. Even having downsized so significantly, there is a color palette. Like the pillows match the art. I think this isn't part of the book, but I think we've all heard the saying, keep nothing in your house that isn't beautiful or useful. And I think that the author would very much agree with that sentiment. And so if you love beautiful things in your home, then that's serving a purpose. I don't think he would say you have to get rid of home decor if it brings you a lot of joy. Yeah. Do you agree with, do you think I'm misrepresenting him? Am I just twisting it to what I think I want him to say?

37:49Ginger:I think he is upfront about just because living in an empty room brings him joy. It doesn't, again, that's not the point. The point isn't to not have things, right? The point is to align how much time you're spending taking care of those things with something about what you value. Yeah. Let me add something else that some Sunny Day shared in the next few sentences. I also don't like living in, quote, the cloud. I'd rather look at real clouds. Also same. So the idea that I can just load things into the computer and then have to manage that inventory feels crummy. I still have my kids watch VHS and DVDs because there's a natural end.

38:36It doesn't start just playing the next thing. And it isn't the ongoing stream and prompts to stay on forever. But that does involve more stuff. I completely agreed when I read this comment. And I found myself, every time I read this book, I find myself cringing a little bit more when he talks about just putting everything in the cloud or how your smartphone can replace a book, a TV, and all the things. And this was written 10 years ago. I think that's just the downside of being a published author is your book existed in a time. And the further we get away, the more perspective we have. most of us are trying to spend less time on our phones these days and less looking at them as, wow, isn't it amazing that this one device can do everything?

39:20Ginger:Yeah. It makes me think of this idea that we talk a lot about in this community of optimization and how you can optimize for the wrong thing. And so like for your own life, right? So yes, that would be very efficient, but that might not be the thing that you value most in how your children are consuming media. You might be valuing that they can do it in the most safe way or in the most least addictive way or whatever that is, right? So it can still be that you're still optimizing. You're just optimizing for something different. Yeah, that's a really good point. And it goes back to what we said at the very top, right?

40:01Minimalism itself is not the goal. Nobody gets a trophy for owning the fewest number of DVDs. keys. Yeah. Yeah. That's not the objective. Okay.

40:12Ginger:In this community, we love to hear about a person taking action. And so I wanted to share this comment from our cost 300, who said, after reading the book, I donated four musical instruments that had gathered dust in my closet for 15 years to a wonderful charity that will use them to educate high school students. To do that, I had to confront the fact that I am not by any means a musician. It hurts to type this. And I had to let go of that identity. Musicians, generally speaking, do not let nice guitars and keyboards gather dust in closets for decades without touching them. And while my life has led to a lot of wonderful and amazing things, it has not led to being a musician.

40:54Ginger:And it was time to accept that. I loved that response, too. I think that's very, my favorite quality in any human is self-awareness and having the self-awareness and lack of ego to go to recognize that that's what you were doing. The courage to say goodbye to that part of yourself. Yeah. Yeah. I don't mean to contradict, but I will say also, one thing I didn't realize, I was just starting to learn guitar right before we moved. And when I say starting to learn, I think I had done two lessons on YouTube. And then we got here and I was like, wait, where's that guitar? Oh, you sold it. after I had nudged my partner, I don't know, a hundred times.

41:46You've never played that guitar. It's been sitting in the closet gathering dust for years.

41:51Ginger:But there's more guitars. There's more guitars. That's right. The music store is storing yours for you right now. Truly, I could probably go into a guitar store and play a YouTube video on my phone and do the one lesson a year I'm going to remember to do. So it would be fun. There you go. There you go. Yeah. I think that one also, I also have a collection of musical instruments. So Liz and I talked about, hey, let's also talk on the show about things that we aren't going to get rid of or things that we're not sure if we should get rid of. I love this game. And when I read that feedback, I was like, oh, I should ask her if I should get rid of my violin.

42:35Ginger:And then I thought, no way, no way. It's going on the list of things that I'm not getting rid of. And I think I'm not ready to let go of the possibility that I might be a person who plays the violin. What would you need to do to feel good about keeping it? Or if you did just start playing it? I'm not, is that funny? No, it's just, it's funny that I'm still holding on to this violin. Because as you say that, right, the answer is take some lessons. at two different times in my life. I have, right? At two different times, I've been like, now is the time for me to learn violin. No, three. Two and a half.

43:14Ginger:Two and a half times. Okay. Yeah. You just walked out halfway through the third lesson. Gotta go. Yeah, gotta go. I got stuff to do. You're a terrible teacher. Bye. I would have to make a plan. Sweet ginger. I'm out. I think I got it. Yeah, I got it. I got it. Anyway.

43:38Ginger:as we're talking about it I'm like this is so dumb I should get rid of the violin but I'm not going to I'm not going to talk about yourself like that oh okay so let's move on because the violin thing is like so boring because I haven't really thought about it enough to understand why I need to keep it around but let's talk about some other things that we are not getting rid of? We're not minimizing. I only came up with one hard line for things that I'm 100 % not getting rid of, and they are signed copies of books. Oh. And I don't have that many, but I probably have 10, maybe 10 books that were signed by the author.

44:19They're not replaceable. They have a ton of sentimental value. I absolutely do not read them.

44:26Ginger:I have no intention of reading these books. Some of them sit on a shelf as decor. I like a little stack of maybe three books with a vase on top. Some of them serve that purpose. Some of them don't. One of them held up my laptop for a long time. But now it doesn't. I have a proper holder thingy. But they make you happy to look at. No. I mean, I don't feel joy when I look at them, I guess. But I feel they all have sentimental value. They're all books that I got signed from the author. I didn't purchase a signed copy. Like I was there and, you know, stood at the table while the author signed it for me.

45:06So they're attached to memories. I mean, I'm sure that someone could argue that I could take a picture of it.

45:13Ginger:No, no, I'm not going to tell you to do something crazy like that. But you could, you do still have the memory though, right? Of like meeting that author. Yeah, but I only think about it when I look at the book. Yeah. And this portion of the show wasn't supposed to be us like challenging each other. So you can keep those books. You can keep those books. I'll just share one of mine, which was, and to me, like the heart of this inquiry is like, what's something you're not minimizing, even though it doesn't bring you a lot of joy. Obviously, there's reasons to keep a lot of things, but why are you holding on to those things that aren't, I don't know, making you happy?

45:59Ginger:One thing I'm not going to get rid of is a quilt that my grandmother made me. Oh my gosh. No. Liz, but listen up, Liz. I don't like the quilt. Oh, no. Yeah. Like I don't like the colors. I don't like the pattern. if I saw this quilt out in the world, I would never in a million years bring it into my house. And so that's where that contradiction is. I don't have it displayed anywhere. I do use it because I use it for guests. When they come, they can have this quilt as their bedspread. So I found a way to like feel good about it having some utility. But even though looking at it doesn't bring me joy because the thing itself is not beautiful to me.

46:44Ginger:I can't let go of the sentimental value that this is like, my grandma made it for me with her hands. So I'm not interested in downsizing that, even though I really could understand the argument for, oh yeah, you could take a picture of it and you still have your grandma's memories. Yeah. I wonder, I don't think you're looking for a solution in here, but I'm just going to to offer you one anyway. So feel free to say no. Thank you. That's a terrible idea. But what if you, like, could you cut a corner of it or something and frame? I know it gets so crazy. You just, you were like, oh my, no, you want to cut my grin on this coil?

47:22Ginger:You know, I did think of that, but here's the problem with that is like, A, now I have to frame this ugly thing. Like, no, I don't want it framed. And I'm ruining it as like having any utility for anyone else, which maybe it doesn't matter that the whole world is full of trash. But you know what I mean? Like that part wouldn't feel good to me either. So I'm just going to hold on to it forever. It's a tough one. It's fine. I am going to have to face it. I have. So again, we have primarily moved out of our large home. You know, listen, there was a lot of, we did it the extremely expensive way. We just moved out of our house for a month.

48:04And then we took another couple of months to really move over everything that we wanted before we even had somebody else move into our house. For a long time, and even still, you could argue it, it's the world's most expensive storage unit right now. But we mostly have everything that we want. I would say in the first, we brought over an MVP, a minimum viable product. We brought over a couch and a couple of chairs and our desks and a bed and a couple of suitcases, literally. And then I would say for the first month, we went over probably at least once a week to go, oh, we don't have this. Oh, we don't have this.

48:36Here's some things that we're missing. Everything that's there now can probably be gotten rid of. But you saying that has reminded me that my mother makes quilts and she has probably gifted us three or four handmade quilts that she made with her hands. And I love one of them. Okay, easy. I love one of them. The other one I often use, we use for picnics. Actually, you know what's so funny? Okay, so it is this, we have this quilt we use for picnics all the time. It's beautiful. It's super bright colors. I had it on the ground. And people, it's so pretty. People comment often when they walk by like, oh, that quilt's so beautiful.

49:18And I say, oh, my mom made it. Can you believe? And this woman was walking by and she said, that quilt is really nice. And I said, oh, thank you. My mom made it. And she took a few steps away. And then she turned around and she goes, I don't think you should have that on the ground. And I said, oh, well, okay. But my mom knows that I put it on the ground and it's washable. So we take it home and we throw it in the wash after we put it on the ground and have a picnic on it. And she said, okay. And she turned around to leave. And then she just turned around one more time and she goes, I mean, it should really be hanging up on the wall.

49:53Like that is a handmade piece of art.

49:56Ginger:I don't like it. You should have said it can be here. It can be at the Goodwill. What are you? I just thought I'm not going to hang this up on the wall. Like I love it, but not as wall art. It's a, it's a blanket. I mean, it's a really nice blanket, but I don't know what I should do. So we'll, we'll keep one or two and then I'll have one or two that I don't want to keep. And I don't know, like, should I tell her? Should I send them back? No, don't send them back. I don't know. One of them has my name embroidered on it. I might just keep them and keep them under the bed and just be like. Yeah. That's another part of the whole like, oh, what is the goal here?

50:37Ginger:And is the goal just to get rid of things? And if you have a place to keep it and it feels good to keep it, then we don't have to follow this dude's rules. Yeah. I think it's just going to feel really awful to get rid of it. And I think that's reason enough for me to just find a space for it. Yeah. I'm not trying to own one towel. One true towel is. One true towel. I would like to own fewer things, not zero things. And I'm struggling with my Christmas decorations too. Say more because you don't feel like you have room for them now. Yeah. I mean, I could find space for them, but I don't really want to.

51:21Oh, easy. But I also, some of them are sentimental, right? Some of them are gifts or heirlooms, I guess you would say. I would like to have a big Christmas tree every year, but I don't have a place to keep it. I mean, I don't want to buy one every year and then just get rid of it.

51:38Ginger:Yeah. I don't know. Do you have a lot of Christmas stuff? I have kind of a lot of Christmas stuff because I have a basement. And so it's that same thing, right? Where it seems silly to have a storage bin for this thing that we only access for three weeks, but also I don't need that blank space in the basement either. But you saying some of that was sentimental or talking about your mom, it made me think of another comment that we got. Oh, about the griddle. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's read it for us. Okay. Heather, first of all, she said, thank you for this wonderful show, which is just nice. I think you missed too earlier when the part you were reading Ginger, someone who then ended their email with, I love Ginger so much.

52:23She's amazing. Thank you for everything that you do. I would like to echo. Plus one to that. Okay. Heather said, this reminded me of a call I had with my aunt just two days ago, my cousin needed an electric griddle, which my aunt had unused in the box in the garage. She did not want to use it or give it to my cousin because it was the last Christmas gift from my grandmother almost six years ago. However, she was okay with it being unused buried in the garage. My grandmother would not have wanted that. My aunt did let my cousin have it, but only if she takes very good care of it. I worry for the day the griddle gets broken, but for now it is at least out of my aunt's house and hopefully being used.

53:09Yeah. I would not want to have that griddle. I would be too afraid.

53:14Ginger:Yeah. What do you think my grandma would think of my dilemma?

53:21That's such a good question. How many quilts did your grandma make?

53:28Ginger:She had a ton of grandchildren and she made each one of them a quilt for their high school graduation. Oh. So it's not like she labored over this one quilt for 10 years and it's the only one she ever made. No, but it was the one special thing that she made me. Okay. Did you pick out the colors or the design or anything? No. Does yours look like all your cousins or did you get one that was sort of bespoke for your taste? Yep. It was unique to each of us. Signed for you. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I think she would say you're a bad person for even thinking about it. No, I'm just kidding. I know. I know.

54:05Ginger:I'm like, this would be so devastating. Like, this is such a terrible hypothetical, even though my grandma has not been with us for many decades. I think she would be happy that you used it and appreciated it and loved your relationship with her. But how would you feel? What if, okay. What if you handed this quilt down to one of your kids? Yeah. And let's say they were adults and had their own home. And then you found out they got rid of it. How would you feel? Oh, fine. I mean, that's such a funny thing about decluttering or getting rid of things. Minimal, minimizing, minimizing, minimizing words.

54:49Words are hard. it's so common to feel like you don't want to just put something in goodwill. We certainly, for many reasons, don't want to just throw things in the trash, but the idea of giving it to someone else feels good. And then if they get ready, if they chuck it. Oh my gosh. I think that's not our

55:07Ginger:problem anymore. You've hit on something crucial there too, in terms of we feel responsible in a Like I was thinking, oh, what if my husband just threw it away? Oh. I mean, as I say that, I'm like, no, I wouldn't like that. But it's not the same bad feeling, right? If it were to accidentally kind of be out of my house, that would be okay. But I don't want to do that because that feels like a betrayal of love. That's really interesting. So you're saying I could just keep the quilts that my mom made me that I like, And then the ones I don't want anymore, I could just lie and say they got lost. And then if she ever came and was like, where's my other quilt?

55:50I don't think she would do that, though. She wouldn't. Oh, my gosh. I don't think she would mind. I don't think your grandmother would mind. I don't think my mom would mind. Yeah. I don't know. I had a pair of socks that my grandmother knitted. They weren't socks. They were little slipper sock kind of things. I had them for a long time, and then I got rid of them. Um, and I think part of why I felt okay about it was that she had made a lot of those. She was a very avid knitter and she probably didn't even remember specifically making that one pair for me. Right.

56:26Ginger:I feel like we've talked about the quilt for too long. So we're going to move to... This is now, the show is called Choose a Quilt. so we're gonna move to our final portion of the show where we talk about things that we are conflicted about getting rid of and then have the other person tell us what we should do i thought of three examples great keep in mind i literally just downsized all of my belongings by like 70 so the fact that i still was easily able to come up with these pretty impressive. This makes me think I still have work to do. I have a few too. All right. I'll go first. You go first.

57:07Ginger:Yep. I've had plantar fasciitis. Sharing too much on this episode. A couple times. Two times. To be clear, that's an issue with your foot. You're oversharing. It was like an intimate. It did feel too intimate. I'm like, what are you doing? What are you sharing? Okay. I've had this foot issue at two different times in my life. The last time was like, I don't know, five years ago. And the thing that fixes it is you wear this stupid boot to bed. Okay. That puts your foot in a special position, or at least that's the thing that has worked for me. It's a boot. It kind of takes up some closet space.

57:48Ginger:I haven't used it in five years. This seems bonkers to me that you still have this. Okay. But it's like$40. Do you not have$40? You're right. You're right. Just get rid of the boot. Get rid of the boot. Okay, that one was easy. That just seems like – I don't think they all seem that easy. But the quilt I grappled with, the boot, I'm like you could get it tomorrow if you needed it. Totally. It's not a one-use boot though. I mean I'm just going to keep buying this boot every time. Well, you have a user for five years. And in the meantime, you could probably post it and buy him in Nothing Group. and then somebody else could be getting use out of it.

58:29And then they wouldn't have to buy a new one. Oh my gosh.

58:31Ginger:Fine. I'll get rid of the boot. Okay. You go. That seems like an easy one to me. Sorry. Okay. Easy. Okay. Okay. I own somewhere between 15 and 20 nail polishes, but I only use probably three of them. But sometimes I think, well, I might get a wild hair. and what to use. I might want to paint my nails red, even though I usually paint them pink. Do you know why I love this segment? Because it's so easy when it's not you. Like, why are we even talking about this? Go throw them away. I should obviously keep them, right? No. All in the trash, instantly. You'll feel great. In the trash? No. I mean, I would buy nothing if nothing else.

59:18Ginger:Okay. Sure. Sure. You have classier nail polish than me. You can keep one weird color in addition to your three. Like I have a bright pink that I only like to wear on vacation. So I might only use that one once a year. Yeah, that's your one. That's the one weird one I can keep. Okay. That doesn't seem... I think that one should... Okay. You're right. Done. Like I used a red the other day and then I only left it on my nails for two days and I took it off immediately. I was like, this is... I don't love that. I liked it for an hour and then I didn't like it after that. Okay, this one brings up a different kind of thing maybe we haven't talked about.

59:54Ginger:So mine is a footstool I don't love. But wait, here's the interesting part. If anyone is still listening. I bought it two weeks ago. Oh, can you return it? No, because I got it on Facebook Marketplace. And we're like redoing this area. And I think thought it was what we needed and I sent my husband to go get it and then he brought it back and it like wasn't really the right color and I I thought well I'm not like putting different furniture in this room so that I can have different furniture I don't super like yeah but at the same time it feels insane to get rid of it. I just got it. What? What?

1:00:43No, this is a lot easier when it's other people. No, you should definitely get rid of that. Okay.

1:00:48Ginger:All right. Okay. Done. Okay. Here's why though, because a lot of things I own specifically home furnishings are from Facebook marketplace. I love buying secondhand furniture. When I buy something from Facebook marketplace, I assume there's only like a 70 % chance I'm going to like it. And if not, you just turn around and relist it. You release it back out into the cycle. My thought was, should I reupholster it? But then this is the whole thing. I mean, are you going to? You're like, oh, do you know how to do that? No. Do you know how to do that? You're like, oh, you have a fabric you really love?

1:01:22Ginger:No. But I'm like, oh, this could be a project and I could save it. But maybe I should just sell it and go on with my life. I think you should just sell it. One of the points from this book that I thought was really great was the idea of thinking of yourself as renting your belongings rather than owning them and not actually renting them, right? Like I own this little couch I'm sitting on right here, but I know I'm not going to own it forever. And I probably paid, I don't know, two or$300 for this on Facebook marketplace. And when I sell it, if I sell it for a hundred dollars, then great. I rented it for 200 bucks for the time that I had it.

1:01:57Ginger:Cool. I just rented this for two weeks and it's fine. Exactly. And sometimes you can flip it. So I did that when I wanted to get a Peloton bike, but I didn't want to commit to the full Peloton. This is when they were expensive. And so I bought a cheap spin bike off Facebook Marketplace for$150 to make sure I would use it. And then I used it a few times a week for a month or so. And then I decided I was ready to buy the whole shebang. And I sold it for more than I bought. I made money. You could maybe sell this footstool for more than you paid for it. Yeah. I could make$5. All right. What's your last thing?

1:02:33What's your last thing? Okay. My last thing was evening wear that I haven't worn in years. Okay. Before you're like immediately now, just take it to the curb right now. Evening wear is hard. Yep. Evening gowns, right? Evening dresses, finding something that fits you, looks good on you. you feel like you have the right bra for it, all the things. But we don't often, we don't have a lot of, I would say maybe twice a year I have to go, I have to, I get to go to something where you get to get really dressed up. And I specifically have struggled since early pandemic days. There were a few years there, obviously, when we were not going to events like that.

1:03:22and I can only wear, you know, if I go to two things, I can only wear two, but I probably own five evening gowns. One of them is like a little snug, but I think it will fit again one day. It would fit now. Like I could wear it in a pinch if I needed to. It's just, I probably, if I, if I took it off the rack today and tried it on, I wouldn't buy it because I'd be like, oh, it's a little too tight. I don't, I don't want this, but I already own it and I've already put the money into it, into buying something that I like that looks good on me. So when an event comes up, I don't have to go look for something else.

1:03:57Because, for example, my sister got married last year and I was the only bridesmaid. So this is going to go against my case, but I ended up buying a new dress because none of the five gowns that I owned worked because the color didn't work. And it took me months to find a dress that I wanted to wear to this wedding. So I think I have this idea in my mind that if I let go of these dresses, I'm really going to regret it.

1:04:23Ginger:I think hold on to the dresses because the utility is not just, hey, I'm going to have something to wear, but I'm not going to have to worry about having to find something to wear. Right. You're not saying you don't like them. Yeah. No, I do like them. Yeah. Easy. I just don't have an occasion to wear them. I don't know. I'm trying to talk you out of it. You already gave me a pass. I'm trying to take the win, Liz. I feel like we should say something about the book. Okay. I feel like we should wrap up by getting back to the book. I meant to share this earlier, but can I share my favorite passage from this book?

1:05:07Yes.

1:05:07Ginger:Yes. Perfect. This is how we're going to end. Liz is going to share the favorite passage. And then there was one idea that I thought was really compelling. And so I'll share that as well. Okay. It's the same one. Oh my gosh. Whoa. Okay. Newly wed game style. We'll find out. In the first couple opening pages of the book, the author gives this example of when you're packing to go on vacation, you have to decide everything that you want and you have to put it all into a suitcase. And you walk out the door and you have this moment where you kind of think, well, if I don't have it, I'll figure it out.

1:05:41Right. When I get there, I'll buy it or, or I'll just manage without it. And he talks about this moment that when you actually get to where you're going, and this is the passage that I loved so much. He says, you aren't surrounded by all the things that usually distract you, the stuff that takes up so much of your attention. That's why travel accommodations often feel so comfortable. You set down your bag and step out for a walk around the neighborhood. You feel light on your feet like you could keep walking forever. You have the freedom to go wherever you want. Time is on your side and you don't have the usual chores or work responsibilities weighing you down.

1:06:24And that idea of you set down your bag and you step out for a walk around the neighborhood is how I feel living in my small apartment. When I get home, I set down my bag and I go for a walk around the neighborhood. And it just conjures to mind, do you feel this when you go on vacation, you've had this heavy travel day and you finally get to your hotel, you set down your bag. And the first thing you want to do is just go walk outside. It's the best. And there's no responsibilities waiting for you inside. There's nothing else that you're supposed to be doing. You set down your bag and step out for a walk around the neighborhood.

1:07:00And that is my only goal in life these days,

1:07:05Ginger:I guess. That is so lovely. And we should have ended on that. Like you've done it. Well, I think mine is kind of similar in that it was him talking about why we should choose experiences over things or why, not why we should, but why that can lead to more happiness. And he put it in a way that I hadn't, I hadn't considered before. So this is what he said. He said, it's easy to compare things with other people and feel bad if we don't have them, but hard to compare experiences. Oh, and that might have just been my summary. Okay, but here's the quote. It's a considerable amount of imagination is necessary if you want to compare your yoga class to someone's game of golf or your fishing trip to another person's camping expedition.

1:07:55Ginger:Because experiences resist comparison, we're happier with them, right? Where he says, like, if you're comparing your outfit to someone else's or your specific curse to someone else's, like that's so easy to compare. Oh. I know, but it's not easy to compare that like lived, textured existence. Right. What a lovely framing. I know. I love that. That's so, that's so interesting. So I love that idea and it makes me think about, I think this is related. I'm going to make it related. One of my favorite things I've seen on the internet in my whole life was a short video of someone saying, here's a list of things that we're billionaires can't have a better version than me.

1:08:44And she listed like, I have the newest iPhone. Like there's not some secret better iPhone that a billionaire has, or we read the same books, we watch the same movies of deliciously crisp apple. It's the same for me as it is for someone with a billion dollars. And it makes me think of the passage that you just said, because again, the experience of doing things like going to a yoga class is great. I mean, maybe you want to go to yoga class, like on the sunset at a beach or something, but in general, just being on your mat and moving and breathing, that's kind of the ultimate experience. There's not really improving on that.

1:09:21Even if you could compare your yoga class to someone else's, you would just go, cool, we both had great yoga classes. Yeah.

1:09:29Ginger:Yeah. I thought it was so interesting because, yeah, that's not a natural thing that we do. Like we might compare a hypothetical vacation or a hypothetical class, but I don't think we compare our actual experiences in the same way. Yeah. When someone tells you they just got back from vacation, you're not going, okay, well, what'd you do the first day? Yeah, exactly. I had a better mango that day than you. I had a better mango. Yeah. Exactly. Well, I tend to reread this book once a year. So we're going to get back together and book club again on the same book. Yes. Yes. And then we'll actually talk about the book.

1:10:11Ginger:No, I think we talked about the book a little bit. I think we talked about the book. And you guys, you guys, what's so important, like what you took away here is like the experience is so much more important than the object. We have so enjoyed having this experience with you. Go check out Liz's podcast. She has multiple. Liz gets loaded, the money kind. And I added that. I added that. That's not the title. And she is also a one of the co-hosts on Inside out money. I love both of those podcasts. I highly recommend both of them. Inside out money is a little more tactical. It's like a, here's how to save money on this or change your mindset on this.

1:10:49Liz gets loaded as just like an unhinged diary. It's just me going on and saying, here's, it's about money and anxiety because I have both. So it's a fun one. I'm laughing. I'm looking at the time. In the time that you took to listen to this podcast, you could have also listened to about a third of this actual audio book, But you wouldn't know anything about what kind of nail polish I have or about Ginger's plantar fasciitis. Yeah.

1:11:13Ginger:So you've really taken something away. Who wants that? And as always, go take action. Go throw away something that you have thought about throwing away at least five times. And we will catch you next time.