FI Service Corps | Ryan Brennan | Ep 548

0:00Hello and welcome to Choose a Fi. Today on the show we have Ryan Brennan. He's the founder of the Fi Service Corps, which is a new organization that is part of the FI community. It's by the FI community and is part of the FI community to create something special, to create events that not only are FI get-togethers, because that's all well and good, but to do good in the process, to give back, to volunteer. And I think this is such a neat intersection. I think it'd be really something special that can sweep across really America, the five community in America and across the world. This is something that is very replicable.

0:39Ryan's able to create these events and they started their pilot in December, 2024. It went so incredibly well that they now have four events on the books for 2025 and it's onward and upward from here. I think you're really going to enjoy this episode. And with that, welcome to choose FI.

1:03Ryan, I have really been looking forward to this. I'm so interested in the FI Service Corps. I'm so interested in what you've built. And I think this is going to be a really important episode for the FI community because people are crying out for this. They're crying out for connection. They're crying out for giving back. They're crying out for being able to do good in the world. So I'm really fascinated by what you've built. But before that, I just want to say, welcome. Thanks for being here. Well, thanks so much, Brad. It's awesome to be here talking to you. I appreciate you having me on. Yeah, you bet.

1:32You bet. So yeah, this is going to work out great. So, okay. You, like me, are a recovering CPA, as I understand it. Is that right? That's true. Yeah. I identify as a CPA, although I haven't practiced for over a year and a half. I left my W-2 job in September of 2023, and I didn't reach FI, and my plan wasn't to retire, never come back. I wanted to take a year off and then find a accounting job somewhere else. But now it's been over a year. It's been about a year and a half. And I am still not working in the traditional sense. I guess I could say what I've done is created a job for myself in this new venture, FI Service Corps.

2:16That is really cool. It is amazing how our FI lives can just surprise us in so many ways. And yeah, you thought you were going to go back. I mean, even just taking a sabbatical year, even taking a mini retirement for a year is remarkable. And that's something that really only a select few people in the world can have the opportunity to do. And of course, being in the five community, it certainly makes it easier. But yeah, like you said, you're 18 months in and no CPA job. And yeah, that's got to be pretty wild. So before we get into five service course certainly like how are you able to do that financially like what does your financial life look like now that you've left your cpa career so i have been drawing from my savings in order to support my lifestyle i built up a i guess i could say a financial runway of cash to feel comfortable to step away from paycheck work during my accounting career concurrently, I was a real estate investor.

3:15I did a few live-in flips where I would purchase a house, live there and renovate it over time. And then after two to three years, I would sell the place. And then I also acquired a couple of rental properties. So through these side hustle projects, I was able to build up a financial runway to feel comfortable to step away from work for a little while. Wow. Oh, that is really cool. Okay. So this really was conceptualized as a kind of like a mini retirement or a sabbatical where, okay, look, this is actually going to cost me money, but this is for the greater good of my life. So that's actually really interesting about the drawing down.

3:54So many people are curious about this. Like how do you mechanically do that? Do you have the money set aside in like a high yield savings? Do you sell investments every month? How do you personally do that? Yeah. So I have a taxable brokerage account and it has a cash balance that I've been drawing from. I have had to periodically sell some holdings to create more of a cash balance. But yeah, initially it was very difficult to change the mindset from saving to now drawing. My whole life I've been in the accumulation phase and I've had this big audacious goal of achieving FI someday. But yeah, I think, like you said, for my mental health and just to kind of recover from burnout, I wanted to take this mini retirement.

4:43And yeah, initially drawing from that taxable brokerage was, you know, it was a mindset shift, but now I've gotten pretty used to it. It's been about 18 months of drawing from it. And I think one thing that helps me with that mindset shift is thinking back to a previous mini retirement I took. I took a three-month leave of absence when I was like 27. It was in 2014. I took three months off of work. And it was also due to burnout. And I felt like I needed to travel. I felt like my 20s were slipping away. And I just kind of went from college to career and didn't really give myself a chance to get out there and travel and explore.

5:28So I took$10 ,000 and spent three months like road tripping around the US. I got a national parks pass and explored national parks, camped, mountain biked. And looking back to this day, that$10 ,000 was the best investment I ever made. It hasn't produced more money, but it's produced memory dividends as Bill Perkins calls it in Diablo Zero. So just thinking back to how I felt about drawing that 10 ,000, you know, 11 years ago for my, that small mini retirement helped me with the mindset shifts, you know, that I live in right now where I'm drawing again to kind of support this mini retirement that I'm on right now.

6:11Man, I love that. Yeah. It's amazing how mindset shifts are really important because it's, it's hard even on a path to fi, right? Which is a very, for most of us is a very intentional decision. We're stepping off the normal hedonic treadmill of life or the keeping up with the Joneses and we're, we're doing something intentional, but I want everybody to know for certain. And I try to hit on this as often as I can, that it's not just like a set it and forget it. It's not a, Hey, I'm going to wake up. I'm going to see some numbers on a screen that tell me that I'm fi. And all of a sudden my life is going to be unicorns and rainbows.

6:46Like it doesn't work that way. It is actual work, right? Like we have to put in the work to experiment and test and do interesting things, right? Like in your case now, too many retirements in your twenties and thirties, like that's a really wonderful thing. And the amount of self-knowledge you're going to glean from that is immeasurable. And yeah, like you said, maybe another mindset shift was you had this big audacious goal to hit FI. And obviously, I think by any definition, taking 18 months off from a CPA's job is going to slow that down, right? Like it doesn't take a rocket. I am a CPA, but it doesn't take a math whiz to figure that out.

7:27But that's not to say that's a failure at all. It's the antithesis of that, right? But that said, I'm sure that wasn't easy mentally to change your entire, I don't know what you consider your son now. Are you Coast FI? Are you lean FI? Are you, is this little bit of real estate income? Like, but it's a mindset shift. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. Yeah, I think one of the beautiful things about the FI community and learning about all the different paths that people take on their FI journey is that you realize that it's not a linear path. It doesn't have to be a linear path. You don't have to work day in and day out and accumulate savings and invest and work towards this number on a screen.

8:08You know, everybody has varying degrees of risk tolerance when it comes to mini retirements or drawing from their savings or, you know, from their pot of money that's their FI number. But I would say I have a pretty high risk tolerance when it comes to that stuff, maybe from my past experience taking a mini retirement. But the thing that helps me is my accounting background, which is kind of funny. Like people think that accountants are very averse to risk and very organized and structured. But the fact that I have the CPA, the fact that I have this career creates a really comfortable backup plan where I can always fall back on it and restart my savings and accumulation.

8:54Yeah. And I mean, having a fallback plan, like there's nothing wrong with that either. And I think that's, again, because you're trying to win the mental game. For all of us, we're trying to win the mental game. And that's 95 % of the hard part, right? And there's the saying that burn the boats. And this comes with a lot of entrepreneurship and, hey, I'm going to leave from the shore. We're going to burn the boats. And there's no going back. And I don't know. That doesn't... I mean, maybe it's also my conservative risk-averse accountant side. But that is not a tenable situation for me. Like that's not a winning sleep well at night situation and having options and having multiple income streams, right?

9:34Like you said, you have a couple of rentals. Now I'm assuming based on the fact that you're drawing down that pretty obviously that doesn't cover your life expenses and that's fine, but it's still is bringing in some amount of money. And at some point those rentals will be paid off. And even if they're cashflow neutral, they'll be paid off at some point. And that's part of this overall strategy. It's, hey, how can I build in options for myself? So yeah, you've taken 18 months off your career, but you're in the process of building something. You have these rentals working for you in the background.

10:04And worst case, like you said, or alluded to, you could always just go back and your day is the same as it was a couple of years ago. And there's nothing wrong with that. Yeah, the rental properties also help with that peace of mind. Like in addition to having the fallback with going back to work, cash flow positive rental properties help with lowering my out-of-pocket expenses for life. I have a property in Washington, D.C., and that cash flows about$500 a month, the rent over the mortgage. And then same thing with the property I have in the eastern shore of Maryland. That's about a$500 a month cash flow positive property.

10:44And right now, my wife and I live in a four-unit multifamily. So it's kind of like a house hack where we live in the top unit and I rent the other three. So that helps us with a very low living expense. And that also gives us a lot of peace of mind to pursue time off of work or pursue ventures into entrepreneurship. Oh, that is really cool. Okay. So I need to dive into that. So I know you're currently living in New Haven, Connecticut, and your wife is pursuing a graduate degree there. Now, I know you've only been there for around three years, as I understand it. Did you buy that four unit after you moved immediately prior?

11:29Talk me through that. How intentional of a decision was that? Because that's not like, oh, we just happened upon this. Talk me through how did that come to pass in such a short period of time? We initially moved to New Haven in the summer of 2022. And my wife began a three-year nurse practitioner program. And when we moved here, we rented an apartment for a year. And in September of 2022, I sold a house that I had flipped in Washington, D.C. So at that time, I got a windfall of cash and I started to look for opportunities to buy a place here in New Haven because I knew we'd be here for three plus years with her doing this program.

12:14So by renting for a year, it gave us a chance to get a feel for the area, learn about the real estate market, and figure out exactly where we wanted to be and what type of house we wanted to buy. And yeah, ultimately, we found this opportunity in the summer of 2023 to purchase this multifamily here in New Haven. That is awesome. So Ryan, I'm not sure after your wife finishes the program, if you plan on staying in New Haven and continuing to live there, or if you guys plan to move, would you rent this out? Would you sell it? Have you thought about that? Yeah, I've thought about different scenarios with this place.

12:54I think that's where the accounting background helps a lot. I've got spreadsheets for all my properties and I'm always doing an analysis to figure out if it makes sense to hold onto properties as rentals for the cash flow or if it makes sense to cash out on the equity and sell the house. So for this particular situation in New Haven, as long as we're living here, I think this is a great opportunity to house hack and have a rental income that pretty much covers our mortgage. If we did move on, I would try renting it and see how that felt. But yeah, I like the idea of real estate is great because you have options.

13:33You could sell and maybe invest in something more conservative, like just index funds or hold onto it, let it ride as a rental, enjoy the cash flow. So yeah, I would experiment and see what felt right. And also, I would see what makes sense from a financial standpoint. Sure. And that makes sense. But right, just doing the back of the envelope math. So the other three units pay for your mortgage. So your life, your living expenses are negligible. It's not to assume zero, but they're negligible. You have about$1 ,000 a month coming in from the two other properties, the Eastern Shore and the DC one.

14:09So I mean, that's not nothing. It's not the lap of luxury. But in terms of, hey, have we been able to cobble together a life that doesn't cost very much? you live in a city. I'm not sure how many cars you need, if any. So I mean, I'm conjuring this idea in my mind of, oh, wow, like they can make this work. And now your wife is going to start an actual paid career as a nurse practitioner here fairly soon. So that obviously will help and get you back on the point where you're starting to add to your savings as opposed to withdrawing. But yeah, it's interesting how, again, options and just being a little creative can really help.

14:47Like you, while you were living there, realized, oh, wow, I'm a real estate investor. Maybe I can figure this out. Like maybe all this house hacking thing that people have been talking about, maybe it could work for me. And it obviously, it sounds like it has. So that's really, really. Thanks for listening to Chooseify and for all your support of our mission here. The absolute best way to support Chooseify is when you sign up for your next rewards credit card to use our cards page at chooseify.com slash cards. I keep this page constantly updated. So it should always be the top resource for you.

15:18Thanks for being part of our community and for your support. So obviously your organization is called the FI Service Corps. So FI is an integral part of your life, but let's go back to the inception of that. So how did you find the FI community? I mean, again, you're a CPA, but I think a lot of people have misconceptions about CPAs that we're all like financial wizards and we know everything. We're all good at personal finance. Like, believe me, I've met a lot of other CPAs. That's not entirely true. So let's not assume anything. But I mean, Ryan, did you grow up like having a strong background of personal finance?

15:51Like, was this something learned late in life? Was it when you found FI? Talk me through this. Yeah. So thinking back, my introduction to FI and my FI journey has kind of existed concurrently or kind of next to my journey in volunteer work and giving back. You know, both of those things have been parts of my life for a long time. And I never really thought about how they could be joined together until recently with Phi Service Corps. But I guess to go back, Phi has been a part of my life for a long time, probably since I before I even knew it was a thing. I've always been kind of a saver, an accumulator.

16:31my first real exposure to the concepts was reading the book, Rich Dad, Poor Dad, pretty shortly after I graduated college. And just understanding the concept of passive income and making your money work for you really resonated with me. And shortly after reading that book, I bought my first property when I was 25. And I spent all my money to get it. I had saved a little bit of money from beginning my job and used it all for the down payment, and closing costs. And really, it was because I wanted to have a place to fix up and to own. And I was obsessed with the shows on HGTV and Flip This House.

17:13So that was as far as my thinking went with it. But that house really was the catalyst towards all the future properties I ended up purchasing. I've used home equity lines of credit on that property. And once I rented it, I got my first taste of passive income where you're bringing in rent that's higher than your mortgage. And I do remember reading a lot of Mr. Money Mustache articles and Mad Scientist articles and discovering the Choose Fi podcast while I was in my cubicle at work in my accounting job in 2017, 2018. and really got hooked on learning the ins and outs of things like the 4 % rule and 25X and index fund investing.

18:01But I never actually participated in FI events besides maybe like a local Choose FI happy hour here and there. But I never actually went to a multi-day event until September of 2023 when I left my W-2 job. I quit my job on a Friday and three days later I flew to Bali and I went to the FI Freedom Retreat. And it was probably the best thing I could have done at that time because that was a big decision to walk away from this company I had been working with for the last eight years and where I worked my way up to director of finance. So meeting these people in Bali and other members of the FI community who all had their own really interesting stories and unconventional paths, It really helped to feel reassured in this decision to take some time for myself.

18:54So Bali was my first exposure to multi-day FI events. And since then, I've gone to Camp FI. And yeah, I've made some really good friends in the FI community. And then I guess to rewind back to the other part of your question about volunteering, I never really thought about it at the time, but it's always been a part of my life. Since graduating college, I've done various volunteer projects or service trips. And one in particular that I've done on a recurring basis is build trips where I would go to areas impacted by natural disasters and just work with an organization as an individual volunteer and help with rebuilding.

19:36So through that, I made a lot of friends in the volunteer space. And also, I learned a lot of really important construction skills that I was able to apply towards my real estate projects in my own life. So I've done a handful of trips as an individual volunteer. And yeah, it wasn't until last year where this idea to kind of marry the Phi community and service and giving back kind of came together for me. So I had an interview with Megan Combs from the Everyday Phi podcast. And we talked for a while. And one of the things that she asked me was what my post-Phi life would look like. And I rambled for a while.

20:20But one of the things I said was, in Phi, I would want to dedicate more time to volunteering. And she kind of dug into that a little bit and asked me what I would do and what I have done. And yeah, I ended up talking about various volunteer work that I've done in the past and how I'd like to do more of that in Pi. And when the episode came out, Megan wrote a little description of the podcast. And one of the things that she said was, learn how Ryan navigates challenges and aligns his financial goals with his passion for serving others. And the fact that that's what she took away was really eye-opening for me.

21:02I wouldn't think to describe myself like that, but the fact that somebody who I had just met would describe me that way really filled me with a lot of pride. And that sentence kind of read my personal mission statement that I didn't know I had. So I kind of sat back and the idea to organize a volunteer trip with members of the five community just kind of hit me all at once after reading that. Okay, Ryan. So we're right at the precipice of the first trip, but I got to slow down just because there's a couple of just really important things that we need to, we need to double back to. So first, what a cool thing hearing that reflected back to you from Megan.

21:42right and it's like it sounds like that literally changed your life and to hear somebody talk of you in these these terms that like you aspire to be that's just a really cool thing and isn't it fascinating sometimes and i know i can speak for someone who is or as someone who is a lifelong serial self-deprecator who uh maybe doesn't allow himself to really reflect on on all the the amazing things sometimes. And I am getting better at that, let's be clear. But it's got to be pretty cool to hear that and to know that somebody else saw this and they believe in me. Yeah, it really was. Yeah, it was very unexpected.

22:21And it really kind of turned on a light bulb for me when I saw that. And I made sure to tell Megan about this to give her some credit. But yeah, it caused me to reflect a lot about serving others and also how this could be applied to the FI community. I think there's so many socially conscious members of the FI community that want to dedicate their time and their resources to serving others. And they might not have a focused way to do that. So yeah, in that moment, the wheels really got turning on how this statement that Megan made could be developed into a real mission and something that could really harness the community to do good.

23:07Yeah. And the community is crying out for it. And yeah, that's why I'm excited to talk more about it. But just as an aside to everybody, Megan will be on the podcast in the next couple of weeks, actually. From when you hear this, she recorded an episode with Ginger. So it's a getting personal with personal finance with Megan. Her podcast, Everyday Fi, is really quite good. So it's one of the newer Fi podcasts that I really enjoy. So definitely download that. And I think just kind of final word on the Megan aspect, Ryan, is you just never know the ripple effects of just anything in life. And I think that's why like Megan didn't go out of her way to do anything special.

23:44She just called it like she saw it and she reflected something back. And like the ripple effect of that one comment is you created the five service core. And like that's a really cool thing when you reflect on that. And like then that's maybe a call to action for all of us is like when you see somebody doing something interesting. or do you just want to say something nice to somebody? Like, just say it. Like, you never know what the ripple effects are from that. I think so many of us hold back compliments and like, think about how few nice things you hear about yourself or about anything. Like in the course of a normal day, week, month, year, like just tell somebody else, you know, it's like a pay it forward kind of thing.

24:20You just never know, you never know the ripple effect. So that's my public service announcement for the day. So a couple other things, like I said, before we get back to that, the precipice of December, 2024. So you left your job and then three days later, you were on a plane to Bali. How did that come about? Because I think a lot of people want to go to these events. A lot of people want to be spontaneous, event or none. How did that happen? So you have a real estate, five rentals, it sounds like. You have a wife in New Haven. How do you just jump off and fly 10 ,000 miles to Bali? Well, I think I was looking for a benchmark or a timeline to kind of stick to where I could pull the plug on my W-2 job.

25:05And I had learned about this Phi Freedom retreat that Amy Minkley was putting on. And I decided that, you know what, September is probably a perfect timeline for me to step away from my home office and do something totally different and And yeah, meet people, have an experience and yeah, just get away from screens for a while. Like leading up to that, yeah, I was experiencing a lot of burnout with work. You know, we moved to New Haven and my job went remote. And where I was used to going into the office every once in a while and interacting with people, I was stuck in my house all day, every day in front of screens.

25:48and I was a new person in a new community and I couldn't really like get out and experience this new environment the way I wanted to. So yeah, I felt like I needed to do something drastic and make a change. And the timing of the Phi Freedom Retreat in Bali was just the perfect target to kind of place on myself for when to get away. That's very cool. Yeah, nothing like a little kick in the butt to, hey, let's do this. This is perfect timing and let's go. And yeah, I think kind of the punchline is a lot of the people who went on the first event for the five service corps are people you met in Bali, which is yet another just kind of interesting, serendipitous part of the whole story.

26:34And I guess finally, as my little sidebars here, so you talked about you volunteering in areas that are impacted by natural disasters previously. Now, of course, that actually is a large part of what you're doing with the FI Service Corps. So clearly, we're hoping that people get involved with the FI Service Corps. But like you said, this is a very generous community. This community looking to be involved. The need and the desire is far going to surpass what the FI Service Corps is available for. Or frankly, like someone might be in California and you have events in Asheville, North Carolina. Hey, how do I get involved is the short question.