Trump Admin Under Scrutiny as Huang Resigns, Scandal Grows

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1:03Tonight, sex and scandal. Does the NVIDIA chaos expose the power a handful of billionaires have without guardrails? Plus, after J.D. Vance blames the midterm route on the war, the president removes him from war talks. Also, the new Democrats may be finding a way to get their agenda heard. Put Donald Trump's name on it in gold. That thing would have 95 % support. I dare Donald Trump to veto. And ICE touts breaking records on arrests and deportations, despite voters soundly rejecting the crackdown. Live at the table, Bill de Blasio, Brianna Lineman, Amisha Cross, Peter Meyer, and Anna Navarro. Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here they do.

1:59Good evening. I'm Lulu Garcia Navarro in New York for Abby. We begin with breaking news. A source tells CNN that Donald Trump called NVIDIA CEO Jensen Huang earlier this week, urging him to fight for his job amid an investigation into his relationship with an alleged Chinese spy. Huang stepped down today after it was revealed he was having a separate affair with a subordinate. But serious questions still loom about the timeline of the spy scandal, rocking Wall Street, Silicon Valley, and Washington. Trump insists he only learned about the plot recently, but that contradicts reporting from The New York Times that he was briefed on the intel a year ago and chose to do nothing.

2:42Even further, a source tells CNN that Marco Rubio briefed Trump again in May aboard Air Force One ahead of the China summit, but Huang traveled with him to Beijing anyway. The White House denies that timeline. Continuing his pattern of praise for Huang, in an interview with Stephen A. Smith today, Trump again downplayed the scandal, arguing Nvidia's tech is so advanced it can be copied. Listen. Well, he's a tremendous talent. He did something that nobody else, you know, you have China and these people, they copy, they pirate so much. Here's a chip that's so complex, so brilliant that you can't copy it.

3:20I mean, it's beyond copying because of their level of genius. And just a note, Stephen A. Smith will be on Laura Coates Live at the top of the hour. But before we open it up to the table here, we invite you at home to join the debate. Head to CNN.com slash Abby and weigh in. We'll get to some of your comments throughout the show. This is a scandal that just keeps growing and growing. Every time we learn something more, it has bigger implications. And today, obviously, it took the head of NVIDIA down. I just want to note a couple of things here. He apparently had this relationship with an alleged Chinese spy.

4:00And per The New York Times, he has still not received a defensive briefing, warnings sometimes given to Americans who are being targeted by foreign intelligence. And Alice Wong, the woman, no relation, that he was having this alleged affair with, we still don't understand where she is. Her current whereabouts are unknown. And everything is very much up in the air and unclear. So, Peter, I want to start with you. How does the president, who apparently knew what was happening for over a year now, continue to have a relationship with Jensen Huang, take him to China, and not at any point in time have him questioned?

4:41So Jensen Huang is one of the preeminent leaders of the tech community in not just the U.S., but the world. I mean, it's part of the Mag-7. You know, NVIDIA is one of the most valuable companies in the world today. So this isn't just some random person you can cast aside. This is somebody whose business is fundamentally underpinning the growth of our economy right now. But there's certainly someone that you can question. Well, no, the question here is, and CNN's own reporting has shown that the director of national intelligence is pushing back on the characterization that there's a Chinese, that she is a Chinese spy or that that is a term that could be used.

5:16And this is the problem. In a memo issued in May, U.S. intelligence concluded that Alice Wong was indeed a Chinese intelligence asset. Now, of course, we don't know exactly what went down here, but there's something about her that clearly raised some alarm bells, Anna. The DNI did push back on that, even as early as far as reporting today. It is opaque. This is espionage. We don't actually know. Is it opaque, or is the government trying to cover its... I mean, is the government now coming out with a different story? I'm just saying. You're suggesting a conspiracy in the federal government. I'm not suggesting a conspiracy.

5:52I'm suggesting that there are a number of different things that have come out at different times that contradict each other. Well, listen, this can all be answered. All the questions that we have can all be answered with congressional testimony. And I think there's a lot of people that should be subpoenaed and brought to testify in front of Congress in a bipartisan way. because national security is something that should be beyond partisanship. I was glad to read today that Tim Scott, the senator, has asked Huang and Whitcoff to testify in front of the banking committee. That needs to happen right away.

6:29But Marco Rubio needs to testify about this supposed memo as well. Scott Besant needs to testify about this argument he had with Whitcoff. I'd like to hear what Wyckoff has to say about his son's involvement and investment in NVIDIA while they're running his old company and some of the decisions he's made. There's a lot of people that have a lot of explaining to do. And this particularly, particularly after this election, where the American people sent a very strong message saying we are fed up with the corruption. Congress needs to act, and they need to act now. Bill, is this an example of President Trump potentially, again, we don't know, protecting some of the most powerful people, not in the country, in the world, who are close to him?

7:22I mean, the New York Times reported that the president was apparently blasé about the national security implications when he was told about the intelligence community's assessments. Well, the president's been blasé about the national security ramifications of many things. And it's shocking how much I think America actually rejected that as well in the election to see a president of the United States cozies up to Putin, for example, doesn't seem to be concerned about what's happening in North Korea, wants to be friends. I think this has been a pattern that the American people got sick of. But to Anna's point about corruption, I think there's a second level to this.

7:58The tech bros, the masters of the tech community, they have been given free reign by this president. They were invited to the inauguration. They all bowed before him. And what was created was a symbiotic relationship where they have been able. It hasn't been free, free reign. OK, good point. There was a price. But the point being, there's no regulation on the tech community in the Trump administration. They run wild. That includes the unfettered development of AI to the detriment of the American people. Now, this is just another ramification to me, another example of this president is never going to challenge this class of people.

8:32He has given away the store to them. But the American people, I think the corruption point is really important. The American people do not want their destiny determined by billionaires. Here's a billionaire who's trying to get away with compromising national security, and Trump is forgiving him. He threatened to nationalize Anthropic earlier this year. I mean, we had a whole consternation about, oh, is the government kind of coming in and taking it? Can that power be trusted in the government? And now some of the questions are on the video. Essentially, should we have more oversight? And I'm sure there's going to be some.

9:01But wait, investment and oversight are two actually different things. Well, look, I think also we're leaving out the part that the FBI does routinely investigate people and not alert them to it because it's part of their investigative process. They don't want to tip someone off if they think that they're part of an espionage scenario. So maybe they had concerns. So wait, this is even more serious. So you're saying that the FBI might have thought that he was an asset, too, and didn't tell him about it? Why would you, if you're investigating someone, tell him? Sure, but then that becomes an even bigger deal than why was Trump going on a plane with him?

9:30That really makes no sense, I think. First of all, my point is that we don't know exactly why he wasn't brief, but there are many examples, including what I just said, which is that FBI investigations are different. They don't necessarily tell someone they're investigating them if that person is also under investigation. Also, to your point, alienating NVIDIA, when, again, we don't know all the facts, we don't know what he knew, what he didn't know, is dangerous. When NVIDIA is the chipmaker behind a lot of things that we do run our national security on. That said, I understand that it is our national security.

9:59I think that President Trump has actually been a little more concerned about national security than some people in the past. I remember when your party opened up the border and let terrorists over the southern border. That was a national security threat. I remember when a Chinese spy balloon flew over this country, and Joe Biden was like, there's a spy balloon. So I think that both sides have been a little lackluster. I think that this is a bigger conversation, which is that China routinely is trying to commit espionage. They send people here. They buy land near our military bases. There's a bigger conversation we have to have about what China is doing in the United States to help them and to hurt us.

10:31I think the what about isn't actually the China spy balloon in this is not the same thing. That went around. Yeah, I mean, that went a lot. That went in a lot of places. That makes it better. No, no, no. What does and should raise a level of ire, not only because you have both sides of the aisle who are coming to the heel on this, they find it problematic. You also have, and it was said in the New York Times reporting and at the top of this hour, the secretary of state also flagged this. Marco Rubio flagged it early. And to have the president still allow Wong to be on the plane, to continue that relationship and to act as though, because I've heard it from both of you across this table, to act as though NVIDIA would fall if essentially this guy wasn't running it is very interesting to me because it is a proposition, it's a business proposition, it's one that is very strong, it's one that is a leader in innovation.

11:20It is going to exist regardless of whether he leads it or not. So it's really frustrating to see sort of a protectionism of somebody who not only appears to have done something very improprietist, and even if you were just removing him or talking about it while the investigation goes on, that is legitimate if you care about national security and our national security interests, especially at the backdrop of the midterms. But even before that, because there were so many not, I would probably even say yells, not whispers anymore, of things that should be investigated under this administration. It would make sense that he would be a little bit higher of alert instead of trying to protect his friends with the acknowledgement that when all of this came out, and there's probably where there's smoke, there's fire, we're going to see something else.

12:00Hold on one second. I want to bring up actually something that Ana started with, which is where do we go from here? Because it's not just us around the table saying things need to be disclosed. It is actually the president's own party. And I want to play a bit of Republican Senator Jim Banks from Indiana calling on Howard Lutnick, who is at the center of this, to testify. The Department of Commerce, Secretary Lutnick, it appears, use loopholes to allow some of these chip sales to occur, even though President Trump has directed his administration and the Department of Commerce not to allow that to happen.

12:41So not only do I hope for Jensen Wong to come and testify, but I would like for Secretary Lutnik ASAP to come testify before the Senate Banking Committee, because we have a lot of bipartisan questions and concerns. I mean, Lutnik is at the center of this. This is important. Why? Because this technology is the most important technology in the world right now. It is fueling the AI boom, and it is the most advanced chips that you can find anywhere. And so what Howard Lutnick's position in this becomes very relevant. And he has definitely been the softest when it comes to permitting the export or pushing for the export of the Blackwell chips to China and allowing that, or permitting more export of those chips where they found their way into China, where they were used to train some of the open source models like DeepSeq.

13:26There's a lot of evidence beginning to be compiled that a lot of the most advanced Chinese open source models were trained on these NVIDIA Blackwell chips that either were smuggled in or because there was allowed to be exported with the Commerce Department pushing that. Now, and that stands in contrast to a far more hawkish and far more non-export push from many other elements of the Trump administration. And so where things that out, I mean, this is where the congressional testimony needs to go, as Senator Banks said. Congressman John Molinar, who's the head of the China Select Committee. I mean, there's a lot of congressional pressure on both sides of the aisle to get to the bottom of that question.

14:04What was his real agenda and how personal was it? Because everything with the Trump administration comes down to, is there a personal or familial opportunity to make profit underlying the actions? So I want to know, given Lutnik's background in the finance industry, I want to know where those pieces go. And is he soft on this because he stands to benefit? Listen, the level of access that this CEO and other CEOs have bought for themselves by making multi-million dollar donations to things like the ballroom, to other things. And, you know, when you have access to the president in this administration, that also means you have access to his secretaries.

14:46And they know who his preferred guys are. And there's policy that's being influenced by this access. It is amazing just the level of access that this guy, Huang, had given everything everybody in this administration seemed to know and all the red flags. This wasn't being kept in a vacuum, right? Besson had issues. Marco had issues. Whitcoff should have had issues. With the X-4 of the Jets. The Intelligence Department had issues. And he's on Air Force One. Flying to China, no less. Flying to China. We're going to leave it there. But this is not the last, obviously, we're going to be discussing this because there's a lot more to find out.

15:22Next, after J.D. Vance blamed the party's midterm losses on the war, the president removes him from Iran talks. Plus, Senator-elect Abdul El-Sayed shows off a gold Trumpcare card in his push for universal health care. Will charm like this convince Trump to adopt their agenda?

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16:53President Trump is changing his tune on the Iran war and pulling his lead negotiator, J.D. Vance, from talks. Trump says the U.S. doesn't need a deal and claims, quote, we've already got their money and the Strait of Hormuz. He is now ordering the vice president to instead focus on rooting out alleged corruption and crime in Democratic-led cities and states. Vance, a potential 2028 presidential contender, had blamed last week's crushing GOP midterm defeat on the war. When recently asked about the Veep's comments, here's how Trump responded. Has J.D. Vance's comments about Iran questioning some of those decisions, has that impacted your relationship at all?

17:34No, not at all. But a lot of people didn't like his comments, but not me. He was right. Other than one thing, he should have made one other statement, one statement that I think is very important. if you had it to do again, would you do it again? The answer is yes. The only thing I wish he would have said there, if he felt it, and you'd have to ask him about that, but if you had it to do again, would you do it? You know, he was part of a decision-making process. Other people didn't like it. I thought his own son, I thought Trump Jr., I mean, not that he's an expert in geopolitics, but okay, but his own son endorsed it.

18:11We tweeted J.D. Vance and said 100 % with a little bullseye, like several times. A lot of people didn't like it. And if we're J.D. technically never wanted to happen to begin with, he was very open about that. That's not a new posture for him with him acknowledging that he wants to. I think everybody knows he wants to run in 2028 and seeing how the midterms just landed. And he is right. The Iran war was a big part of why people decided to go in another direction. It was the Iran war. It was it was the tariffs. You name it. It was the the anti-immigration policies. It was overzealous Trump time in time out.

18:43But the war in and of itself, the rise in gas prices, the issues that it has cost farmers, you name it, there are individuals across the country in urban areas, rural areas, and everywhere in between who are very against it. And Trump ran not once, not twice, but three times on no more endless wars and got us into one that could last for another decade or so. And Iran officials have already said they're not even going to negotiate with this president anymore. So who knows how long this is going to last? But I will take them at their word. They are waiting until 2028 until somebody else is at Pennsylvania Avenue.

19:14But J.D. Vance, I just have to say, J.D. Vance cannot help himself but seem like an opportunist at all times in his entire adult life. To, you know, say, oh, no, I had this great analysis after people have died, after billions of dollars have spent, after the American economy was deeply disrupted and people's lives were disrupted. He's like, well, my analysis, it's just unbelievable. He was part of the decision. I don't care if he didn't like it. He was part of it. He could have spoken out at the time of the decision. He could have shown bravery. He never does. And so the idea that by putting out a tweet that he's somehow going to cleanse himself, I think the base looks at him and says, you're disloyal.

19:54And the rest of America looks at him and says, you're just posturing, because that's the history of J.D. Vance. I don't think it helps him one bit. If I recall, though, I believe I read reporting that when this decision was going on, J.D. Vance was actually vocal about his opposition. Not publicly. Not publicly, but in the situation room. There was in The New York Times a blow-by-blow of all the people who apparently had great reservations, and that included the entire cabinet. I don't know who could have possibly leaked that. And there was reporting that in private they were apparently against the decision.

20:27I hate that you're making me defend J.D. Vance, but I don't think it's rational. There's a first for everything. I don't think it's. I mean, he's an opportunist, yes, because I well remember when he was a contributor on this network. And he was anti-Trump. Anti-Trump, yep. But I don't think it's rational to have the expectation that a vice president is going to publicly disagree with policy on a war. Wait a minute. And you're talking about life and death when you're talking about something that has changed the course of history so profoundly. If he was such a voice of conscience, he could have done something about it.

20:58I hear you. Yes. Conventionally, you're right. He could have resigned or he could have spoken out. They can't take the job away from him. He could have spoken out. I'm saying it's disingenuous afterwards to put out a memo and act like that means something. When has any vice president ever actually publicly spoken out against the principle? It is exceedingly rare. And in fact, that tweet coming after the shellacking that the GOP got was remarkable because, quite frankly, clearly Trump, it wasn't other people didn't like it. He didn't like it. But what did it serve for J.D. Vance? Hold on one second.

21:32I can tell you. And we know he didn't like it because here's what Trump said about voters who turned against Republicans over the Iran war. Let's listen. I think it had to do maybe with the war, but I don't think it was the war as much as what the war did. It lifted up the gasoline prices. I'm disappointed in people because I really think it's a very small. it's really a very small thing to pay to get rid of a country that would actually absolutely in my opinion use nuclear weapons on us on others but also on us. Trump is still defending this war and he's basically blaming the voters there for making a decision that it didn't go his you know that he got into this war and they don't understand according to him the importance of this.

22:20My Why now? Because Netanyahu has been trying to get America involved in this in a war with Iran for the past 45 years. It has always used the exact same theory that there is an imminent threat of Iran getting a nuclear weapon and America is going to be one of the targets. He has said that to every president for over 40 years. And at the end of the day, whether you were a blue Democrat, whether you were a red Republican, all of them said no. All of them backed down. Trump is not smarter than every president who was ever. So why now? Well, the why now is because he was on a sugar high from Venezuela, which, you know, he thought was this great success where they had gone in and Maduro left.

22:59And here they were in charge. And I think they grossly underestimated, including Pete Hegseth, and the level of resistance that the Iranians are able to tolerate. I think you're right, because he also called Trump in 2016 and he didn't do this. There is a huge difference between then and now. So did they get closer? Where's the evidence of them getting closer? What is the alternate framing? The alternate framing is that every president prior has kicked this can down the road to the point where the Iranians were able to build up their ballistic missiles sufficient to the point where they were bragging internally to negotiators about their ability to, not their ballistic missiles.

23:34I mean, Operation Medina Hammer was focused on the nuclear sites. It was saying their ballistic missile capability was getting to the point where they could not only strike Europe, but they could have sufficient destructive capability to where whether they had a nuclear weapon or not, they were beyond the realm of us trying to neutralize that threat. What's happened instead is that they wiped out the senior leadership of the Iranian regime. And now you have a leadership that is even more militant with less experience in negotiations and less inclination to come to any sort of deal. And so economy and ruins, a continuing.

24:11And America's economy is also not doing well. The Saudis are exporting more through the straight-forward moves that they did last week, higher than the pre-war totals. Well, you're articulating a point that I'm interested in, which is something that Mike Pence said. He took issue with J.D. Vance pinning GOP losses on the Iran war and took an alternate view of what exactly the problem was with the Iranian conflict. There's no question that the war in Iran became a frustration for millions of Americans. But it wasn't because President Trump started the war or took on Iran. It's because we stopped short and didn't finish it.

24:48And as Americans saw the politics of appeasement that the administration embraced, one negotiation after another, I think people became frustrated. Frustrated with the lack of progress, frustrated with the price of fuel at the pump. Brianna, that's a different position, which is basically that Trump didn't go far enough. And that's the neocon position that is being routinely rejected, not only by a large part of the MAGA base, but by J.D. Vance himself. I also do think that Trump had somewhat of a point in one of the interviews he played. If the Iran war, if he had done this and he had been successful, or if gas prices didn't rise, if we didn't lose all those service members, I don't think that would have been a top priority.

25:29But because we have the Iran war that did cause gas prices and other prices to shoot up, that's why people feel and care so much. And I don't blame them. You can't just tell people that they have to be OK with$4 plus at the pump when the case wasn't made enough to Americans prior to us going in. It's not like President Trump did a PR campaign saying, this is why we're going in now. Because Americans, to your point, were told last year that a lot of their capabilities were knocked out. And to your point, not the ballistic capabilities, right? But I do think that there had to have been a better messaging campaign.

25:57And I think with J.D. Vance, I think what he's trying to do is he's trying to position himself for a possible 2028 run. I think he wants to say, look, when I did have the opportunity, I did secure a very short lived truce. I tried to do it again. I was removed. But my decision was I didn't want the war. I tried my best to end it. And I think he's going to try to position himself against maybe Marco Rubio, who's had a little bit of a different posture. This war is unpopular in 2026. If it goes on for another two years, it's going to be an even bigger anchor around the necks of Republicans. And there is absolutely no narrative that Trump could have spun.

26:25And I don't care how great of a orator he thinks that he is. There is no narrative he could have spun that would have made people change their minds while watching their prices increase. It just wasn't going to happen. All right. We're going to leave it there. Next, Senator-elect Abdul El-Sayed appealing to the president's penchant for self-branding, pitching a gold Trumpcare health plan to get the president to the negotiating table. We're going to discuss it.

26:54This holiday, all plans, even unlimited, are just$15 a month. A holiday deal this good obviously deserves an enormously expensive holiday song, like All I Want. Right. Okay, we can afford that. You know what? Forget the music budget. We're going to stick with whatever's in the public domain. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of$45 for three months,$90 for six months, or$180 for a 12-month plan required,$15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. New customer offer for initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes

27:28The new wave of congressional Democrats may be finding a way to grab attention for their policy agenda by appealing directly to Donald Trump's ego. Here's Senator-elect Abdul El-Sayed dangling a proposal he hopes the president simply cannot refuse. Medicare for All has been a big platform of yours that you have pushed, and you've said that you want to get it passed. You've said that you would even call it Trumpcare for all, if that's what it took. Donald, if you're watching, we can put your name on it. I know you like to put your name on stuff. You can finally meet the unmet promise in America to guarantee everybody health care.

28:04So it's on the table if you want to do it. But are you being serious or are you being funny? No, I'm absolutely serious. You would totally vote for that. I don't care what it's called. I want people to have health care in this country. Really. El-Sayed followed up with a mock Trumpcare card decked in gold and bearing the president's well-known signature. His message, Donald, this is on the table. But the incoming senator also took his sales pitch one step further on NPR earlier today. If we put down a bill tomorrow that said we were going to make vision, dental and hearing whole, we were going to eliminate all the gaps in Medicare, we were to eliminate the spend down or the deductible, and we were going to extend it to children and people under 55, that thing would have 95 % support in the public.

28:49I dare Donald Trump to veto. I dare him. Because if you want to make the argument that Democrats want to deliver for you, do that. Make him veto it. Make him. I bet you, you know, put his name on it, he'll probably pass it. Before we get to the substance of this, I am very interested in the tactic. Because we are having a new crop of Democrats that are using the same tactics that Donald Trump used to grab the attention, to make news, to get people to focus on their agenda, to message the things that they want. Bill, I mean. It's also about affordability. This is really interesting. You know, Momdani ran on affordability, created this interesting relationship with Trump, and literally in a different way said to Trump, I want to do this huge affordable housing development in New York, and we haven't named it yet.

29:43When he presented it to Trump, he literally said out loud, we haven't named it yet and we need federal help. I think it is fascinating that the folks who are really owning the affordability agenda, and El-Sayed certainly is one of them, are not interested in the fight with Trump for the theater or for the ideology or they're not talking about the danger to democracy, which I'm not belittling is somewhat real. They're going at the thing the American people care about and the thing the American people are feeling, which is the cost of living and the challenges of making ends meet. And I think this is actually a great evolution for the Democratic Party.

30:16It's populist. It's energetic. It's kitchen table. It's fun. But it's also saying we're not going down any of those sideshow roads. We're coming right at you. And he dares him to take health care. OK, from 2024 to be fair. All right. Peter looks like he's going to have a heart attack. But before he does, before he does, I actually want to play one more cut from this excellent interview that Laila. Hold on. No, so I can actually be seen by a provider soon as opposed to getting on a wait list. I want to play one more cut from this excellent interview by Leila Fadal of NPR of Abdul al-Sayed. And she asked him, I think, quite well, you know, you have called Trump an idiot.

30:52You obviously don't like him. It's been very hostile. So why is why do you think you're going to have any sway with him if you've been standing up to him? And this is what he said. If he has a neat trick, it's that he has fully succumbed to his narcissism and is very good at getting attention, which means every day he tees off on me, he gives me more attention. He said he's going to be Mr. Vito, but he also has said, oh, I'll work with the Democrats. I mean, do you think this could just push him away, this type of approach, calling him dumb and unserious? No, because he cannot stand, he cannot stand being disliked.

31:31I'm going to say this and it's probably going to reach his desk and he won't be able to resist it. He wants me to like him. So. You think he wants you to like him? Call my office. We can have a meeting. Peter. OK, just on the affordability component. Yes, Democratic messaging on affordability is great. I mean, the reason why Mamdani wanted to suck up, I shouldn't say suck up to Trump. Trump objectively likes and respects Mamdani as being a very talented political guy. He likes people who he looks at and says, like, that guy does a, you know, whatever the policy aside, like, he can respect that.

32:04But Mamdani wanted$2 billion from the federal government. It's not affordable housing when they're costing upwards of a million dollars a unit, right? So all of this stuff where it's affordability, no, no, it's just increasing government debts and deficits and shifting it to different elements of the taxpayer base to basically launder funds through a complicated NGO and donor network. Wait, do you think it was a good tactic? I think it's a great tactic. It's very smart. And I think Abdul's tactic is also very smart. I mean, the messaging on it is great. When you say we'll get to the substance of it, there's no substance.

32:32And this isn't going to get 50 votes in the Senate. But it is smart. And we're talking about it right now. And it's the type of things that Democrats should be doing that any politician should be doing. So I can respect the hell out of that. And he responds to him in the way that, you know, if you dish it, then you have to be able to take it back. He is also somebody who is very adept to psychoanalysis. He knows internally how Trump is going to react because, one, this is how Trump always reacts. but also because he gets a high off of these types of things. Or El-Sayed, one of the things that he really wants to do, he's a public health professional.

33:02This has been his life's work. He wants to get Medicare for all across the aisle. I believe him. He doesn't care whether you call it Trump. You can call it whatever the hell you want to call it. At the end of the day, he wants to be able to provide it for the people. That was one of the core things he ran on. Yes, Americans care about affordability. And once those big, beautiful bill act cuts come in, into Medicaid, into rural hospitals, into the very hospitals across the South in particular, where a lot of Trump voters were in 2024, in 2020, and in 2020, and in 2016, those are going to hit really hard.

33:31The one thing that I think came across in this presidential election that I think was very important was that a lot of the issues that people considered ultra-progressivism and crazy in the weeds just a few years ago no longer seem as such because a lot of people need a lot of help right now. I don't like what Overton windows shift, by the way. That's not a good thing, right? The Overton window has shifted on the definition of anti-Semitism, I think, to the detriment of this country. The Overton window has shifted on what is like acceptable political speech in both directions. And that is bad.

33:56And I don't like that the Overton window has shifted. Yes, we used to think socialism was crazy. And now all the kids want socialism because they're frustrated and pissed off. And I get that. Well, they're unemployed and they're impoverished and they can't afford housing. I think. Listen, Abdul El-Sayed is such a master at media and taunting Trump. And I almost think it's like game respects game. So, yeah, OK, so he's called Donald Trump dumb. Well, Donald Trump called him a jihadist. So I think Abdul El-Sayed is well entitled to call Trump dumb. But he's also, right, preying on the things, on Trump's characteristics.

34:35He loves everything old. He loves to name everything about himself. He has this this thing with Obama, right? And Obamacare, Obama lives rent free in Trump's head. So let's do this. So I think he's kind of bringing all of this up. And it's rather fun. And I think you're going to see in Abdul El-Sayed in these next two years while Trump is in office, the most vocal, youthful, energetic and effective spokesperson using taunts and using modern lingo and he being so adept at social media to get to Trump, to poke Trump. And I'm enjoying it immensely. All right. On that note, next, ICE just broke a record for arrests and deportations, despite voters soundly rejecting the crackdown.

35:26We'll talk about it.

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36:40ICE deportations have hit a record high as Donald Trump and Republicans face a midterm reckoning over the president's aggressive immigration crackdown. The Department of Homeland Security says it deported more than 483 ,000 people in fiscal year 2026, beating its numbers from the previous year. DHS chief Mark Wayne Mullen bragged today about his agency's enforcement achievement. As for Trump, in the span of 24 hours, he's been all over the place on his signature policy. So you think your deportation policy went too far? It was too tough. I think it might be too tough, yeah. What would happen? What does the deal look like with the Democrats?

37:20Ultimately, that hurt me. You told 60 Minutes that you felt that your deportation policy may have gone too far. But then you named the architect of that policy, Stephen Miller, to be your chief of staff. Have you told him that you want changes to the deportation policy? No, we have a very strong deportation policy. There's no amnesty. Ana, I mean, this was really one of the issues among many that we've already discussed that hurt the president. He was the American people were all for closing the border. There is no question about that. The 2024 election was a referendum on that issue. But this and how deportations have played out, all the polls showed that this was too much for the American people.

38:08And yet here we are. I mean, what do you think it says that the president has now elevated one of the chief architects to be his chief of staff? It says that he's not going to work with Democrats on an immigration reform, which he could. But I don't think he will. with that's what to me, the elevation of Stephen Miller signals. He's just elevated the guy who, as Caitlin said, is the architect of these policies, whose raison d 'etre since he's been like an adolescent has been to make America white again. I'm talking about Stephen Miller. With Trump, watch what he does, not what he says. And I think that whether it's Iran or whether it's immigration, he is going to completely be oblivious to the message that voters sent him.

38:57And he's going to double down. And I, you know, it cost him the Latino vote, but he had made incredible historic gains. He has lost that and more. And it wasn't just Latinos. One of the things that I, that I, that gave me some joy out of this, this election is the fact that so many Americans who are not the ones being targeted, stood up and said, we're not going to look the other way on the purposeful cruelty by this administration, on the hunting of people in the streets of America, on the killing of people by the government with impunity. And I think you're going to see a lot of investigations on this in the coming days.

39:40Look, Republicans look the other way on it, look the other way on the excesses of DHS and of these ICE officers. I don't think Congresswoman Jayapal, who's going to be the chair of the subcommittee, is going to look the other way. You know, the two killings in Minneapolis, the two murders. Of white people, of white Americans. Well, and you always are a truth teller, Ana. It was something that I think hit white America in its core, hit America as a whole, people of conscience of all ideologies, to see people gunned down in cold blood who were exercising their rights. Exercising your right is not trying to run over and eat their car.

40:16But let me finish what I'm saying. That's not a right, though. Let me finish what I'm saying. To be clear. The fact is that was the hinge point of 2026 in America. Just later, the Iran war to gas prices. But everything started to change after the two murders in Minneapolis. And I think what's so shocking is they doubled down, the administration doubled down on deportations. We know so many of those people had no criminal records. They were people, hardworking members of our community. and it's also destroying a lot of American small businesses in the process. And this is where I think you're going to see another backlash from mainstream Americans, from moderates, from independents who don't want to see their businesses undermined by a government policy that makes no sense.

40:57So let me respond to a few things really quickly. I will give you that Kristi Noem's leadership at the DHS was very theatrical. She wanted to make a name for herself. She wanted to be that Barbie at DHS. I don't think that was palatable to the American people. I think Mark Wayne Mullen has done a much better job of being successful in deportation efforts, while also not being as brash as Chris G. Noem was. I also think we should be clear, the only reason we're in a position where we needed mass deportations is because Democrats left the southern border open. To your point about Latinos, what's interesting is Latinos knew what President Trump was promising in 2024 at the RNC convention.

41:29They held up signs saying mass deportations now. Trump was almost killed while talking about mass deportations. It was never a mystery about what Trump would do in terms of deportations, and Latinos swung for him. If you look at NBC News exit poll, you will find that Latinos ranked the economy, understandably, as one of their top priorities. But immigration was not ranked as a top priority for most Latinos. It's also interesting. Axios came out with a report. It found that during the primary season, Democrats made ICE, the third most popular topic they talked about. When they entered the general election, it became the 35th topic talked about.

42:02Why? Because even Democrats understand that to win a moderate, independent Republican, you had to not oppose immigration enforcement. I'd also then note really quickly that President Trump was elected with a four-year mandate. Congress gets two, Senate gets six, President Trump gets four. People voted for him precisely because of his mass deportation efforts. Americans should not cede their sovereignty because people have some kind of suicidal empathy going on. And to your point about businesses, to your point about businesses, They do not want law. Disproportionately hurts Americans, specifically black Americans.

42:37Let's not mean that. Okay, we've got to stop. All right. Obama's 2010 Civil Rights Commission found that six out of ten black men who don't have a college education are actually disproportionately displaced by legal alien labor. Why should we be displacing American citizens, black, white, whatever, for illegal aliens? I want to see the Republican Party's platform to get black male jobs, other than trying to be extremely xenophobic against Latinos, because that's what he's doing. That's what he's doing. I think that's what he's doing. That's what he's doing. That's what he's doing. That's what he's doing.

43:02That's what he's doing. That's what he's doing. That's what he's doing. That's what he's doing. Can I, can I, okay, can I, can I, can I pause you just for one second? Because there was a lot there. And I want to actually play something from CNN's John King, who spoke to a voter in Texas on why she rejects Trump's immigration crackdown. And then I want to talk about it on the other side. I think most of the Latinos here, we were looking for a secure border back then, something that Trump promised, which, you know, by all means, it's good for us. But the way they're going about it, now you're targeting the Latinos.

43:34You're targeting the people that helped you get into the office. And now, you know, our vote matters, especially here in Texas, especially here in the borders. Trump lost every—Republicans, led by Trump, lost every single county along the U.S. border. This was a border that had flipped to Republicans in Texas that had never flipped to Republicans. And you have people down there who work in Border Patrol. I have been down there innumerable times. I know the border exceedingly well. And, you know, they are not anti-enforcement of immigration. What they are anti is what you heard there. The feeling that you are being targeted and the feeling that you are not doing what you promise, which is getting people out of this country who are criminals, not here simply...

44:25Being here at least is a crime. And so President Trump promised mass deportations, and I don't know why we're acting like it's a surprise that he was going to actually fall through on a promise. So why did he lose the election? Economy. We just spoke about that. The polls show time and time again gas prices, food prices, but immigration was not for a top priority. Actually, it was a top priority. For a lot of Americans, for most Americans... It was cost of living, corruption, and immigration. Cost of living. I don't know what what polls you know. I'm going to tell you this. Republicans almost lost Florida.

44:53There are no Latinos that are more pro Trump, as you well know, than the South Florida Latinos. And there were two congressional seats that were won. There's still one was in a recount until yesterday. They were won by a thousand votes. And I can tell you that I'm not reading polls. I live amongst Latinos and I am Latino. And the amount of people that would come up to me and say, se le fue la mano. He's gone too far. He's gone overboard. Enforcing the law is not going overboard. Yes, no, it is. When you are using children as bait and when you are holding thousands of children, when you are holding thousands of children and the probable conditions in detention centers, that is going too far.

45:34When you are taking, when you are shooting, when you are shooting into cars where there's little children in there, that is going too far. When you are shooting American citizens because they look and act and speak like me, That is going too far. Because you brought up black people to try to separate blacks and Latinos in this conversation, who led the 700 ,000 unemployed black women? That was anti-DI policies of Donald Trump. That was rhetoric that came out of his White House. That was a push out to say that black people did not have the talent, the education, or exhibit the strength to be in those positions.

46:10That had absolutely nothing to do with a single Latino person. So we have to be very real. No, your argument was that there are so many unemployed black men and they disproportionately were taking people's jobs. That is actually incorrect. You said specifically black men. And currently there are 300 ,000 black men who are unemployed. I said that not only do illegal aliens disproportionately displace all American workers, but black men are disproportionately impacted by that displacement. Black men have been disproportionately impacted by Donald Trump's policies. That was Obama's 2010 Civil Rights Commission.

46:40I'm telling you about illegal alien labor. That was Obama's Civil Rights Commission. that came out with that. You mean like the ones that worked at Mar-a-Lago? All right, we're going to leave it there. You mean like the ones that worked at Doral? We're going to leave it there. And we'll be back in a moment.

47:14big, from seasonal finds to favorites you'll use all year long. Plus, with Wayfair, enjoy fast and easy shipping with delivery and time for the holidays. Save up to 70 % off early Black Friday deals. Shop now at Wayfair.com. Wayfair, every style, every home. This holiday, all plans, even unlimited, are just$15 a month. A holiday deal this good obviously deserves an enormously expensive holiday song, like All I Want. Right. Okay, we can't afford that. You know what? Forget the music budget. We're going to stick with whatever's in the public domain. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of$45 for three months,$90 for six months, or$180 for a 12-month plan required.

47:53$15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. New customer offer for initial plan term only. Greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. See terms.