Trump Baselessly Claims Rigged Election After Historic Loss

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0:44So get peace of mind knowing your loved ones are protected with Progressive's Accident Response. Learn more at Progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Limited availability in California. Driver is responsible for emergency and towing charges not covered by the policy. coverage subject to policy terms and conditions. Tonight, inside the mind of a lame duck, the president cries fraud. They stole it. Throws blame. I wasn't on the ballot. And suggests he'd rather go to hell than forgive his enemies. I probably cannot do that now because I do hate some of my enemies.

1:19Plus, the clock starts on Pete Hegseth's impeachment efforts, something he likens to being against the military. You're taking issue with the troops. Also, at some point you have to draw the line. The attorney general threatens to investigate the investigators at the command of Donald Trump. And is J.D. Vance's presidential campaign suffering before it even starts? A lot of people didn't like his comments, but not me. Live at the table, Cornel West, Terry Schilling, Ashley Allison, Lydia Moynihan and Noel King. Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, But here they do.

2:08Good evening. I'm Lulu Garcia Navarro in New York for Abby. Voters just gave Donald Trump's music a record scratch, and yet he seems to be stuck on some song that only he can hear. The president's state of mind is in focus tonight as he whips out his old playbook to deny what the majority of Americans are telling him at a historic volume. It may have taken him six days, but Trump is now claiming the election was rigged. Goes without saying, that's false and baseless. He also claimed the midterms aren't a rebuke on him since he wasn't on the ballot. He offered the press secretary's job to the UFC's Dana White.

2:46Then when sources said White turned him down, Trump claimed he was joking. He's giving the same line about the Iran war he's repeated for months, that it's over, it's won, and energy costs are down. He's calling people losers, fake news, and blaming things on Joe Biden. It's his greatest hits reel at a time when the hits have clearly lost their luster. Before we open it up to the table here, we invite you at home to join the debate. Head to CNN.com slash Abby and weigh in. We'll get to some of your comments throughout the show. So it seems to me that we are sort of stuck on a particular record that we can't seem to skip over.

3:28Terry, I want to start with you. I mean, the president seems unable to sort of deal with the reality of what just happened in the midterms. And he's going back to the things that he knows really well. I mean, why do you think he seems unable to recognize what democracy, what the voters have said? Well, look, I don't know. I can't get into his head. I think that's a tough job. But I think obviously this election came down to cost of living. If you look at across the board, Americans, especially working families, have been suffering. And it hasn't gotten the ear that it deserved from the White House or really from the entire Republican Party.

4:08But what's craziest to me, Lulu, is that out of the top 10 states where cost of living is worse, worse. Nine out of 10 of those are all run by Democrats. They're all blue states. And what I think is going on is that a crazy answer, a bad answer, even from people that aren't really that trustworthy on cost of living, is better than no answer at all. And that's what we saw from the Republican Party when it comes to the median age of first-time homebuyer being 40 years old. Like, there's a lot of reasons why we lost this race. It all comes down to cost of living. Well, I mean, Lydia, fair, right?

4:41I mean, I think that's fair. You gave, I think, a very cogent analysis of what went wrong here. And I'm just struggling to understand why the president can't do the same thing. Yeah, I think the hallmark of a good leader, obviously, is empowering others. And so I think this could be a really great opportunity, given Trump has been on the stage now for a decade. And he is looking at the last two years in office. I would advise him to really focus on choosing and empowering a successor. And we've seen he's been comfortable with J.D. Vance diagnosing some of the issues that went wrong in the election, actually sort of supporting him, saying, I agreed with some of that.

5:18So I think we need to see more of that from the president and more of allowing a conversation in the Republican Party to continue and let new leaders emerge. Ashley, I'm going to. Well, you know, but like. But yeah, but that's not going to happen. Right. Yeah. And I think like Republicans are now going to have to lie in the bed they made. They have never pulled in the reins on this man when he was not in office, when he was in office. And so when you allow someone to almost become larger than life, to have their hand, their footprint on this party, it is going to take that much volume from a number of people, the people that are in state elected offices, the people that are in federal offices, the people that sit on national television and dissect what is happening to say enough.

6:09We do not we don't want you to represent our party. And but they have yet to do that over that decade. Yes. All but will they. And I'm going to play something now. And then, Noel, I want you to jump in afterwards. Manu Raju pressed Speaker Mike Johnson, known for his firm rejection of President Trump. And he was asked if Trump should change course given the midterms. And here was his response. Mr. Speaker, should the president course correct after Tuesday? Course correct. Change course. You know, he named Stephen Miller. He's sticking by Pete Hexas. change his approach in any way. I'm not going to tell the president how to do his job.

6:49We have an incredible record of the first two years of his term, and I expect more success in the day ahead. I'm sorry that the voters made the wrong choice. I really do believe that this next two years is going to be a bit of a circus. It's going to be chaos, and I hate to say that, but I think that's where the Democrats are going to lead the House. And that's a great tragedy. I'm sorry the voters made the wrong choice. So many of those voters made the wrong choice. I mean, look, what do you say about President Trump at this point? He's an 80 year old man. He is often incoherent. And it is not at all surprising that he's reverting to form when he says even six days after the election, you know, I won.

7:30It was right. The important thing this time around is it's not working, right? Like we all remember five, six years ago when he could claim election interference. He could say it was rigged against me. And people would go and they would march on the Capitol. This time you look at the response, it feels kind of desperate. The response I've seen online is people sort of saying that it's quite sad that the president is, you know, pulling out his old playbook and nobody's buying it this time. And I think what actually matters is nobody's buying it. the margins in this election were so solidly on the side of Democratic candidates that this is not something where you can pretend it was even close.

8:06I mean, he is, though, saying that it's rigged. He is trying to bring that specter up again. And as we know, the last time, the consequences were pretty dire on January 6th. But I think to Noelle's point, people aren't really buying it anymore. So where does that leave the president in his last two years of a lame duck session in which he's going to be facing a hostile Congress, which is going to be run by Democrats, not only there, but governors across this country are going to be Democrats. What does a president like that do if he's not going to be cutting deal with Democrats? Yeah, and I hear what you're saying.

8:48I look at this through moral and spiritual lens and it looks as if Brother Trump, he's enslaved to greed. He's enslaved to hatred. He's got a certain kind of spiritual bondage that he can't get out and he feels as if now he's been checkmated because black folk have come to the rescue once again and helped save American democracy just like the Civil War. 200 ,000 black men left plantation, joined the army, crushed the Confederacy Army in the 1960s. Here come Martin King, Fannie Lou Hamer and others were about to go under. We choose not to form a black virgin of the Ku Klux Klan. Would it have been a civil war?

9:25No, here comes Martin King and Fannie Lou Hamer to save the democracy again. Here we are in 2026. Black folk in the vanguard. We didn't do it by ourselves. What is it? 91 %? 93. 94. 94 black women. It's unbelievable. Now, there were others there, but those are moral and spiritual issues, not just partisan ones. It wasn't just about money and groceries. They were talking about something civic, something moral, something about love and justice and what does it mean to be a human being. So by zeroing in on Trump, I say to myself, how could it be that 51 percent of my fellow white brothers and sisters in the country voted for Trump's Republican Party?

10:06We've got to come to terms with that. One out of two still voted for the Republican Party. Now, the Republican Party's heterogeneous is plural. They're not all Trumpites, but there's a whole lot of Republicans who are anti-Trumpites and so forth, right? What is it? Trump's not there by himself. He's enabled by persons who are themselves locked into a certain kind of spiritual and moral bondage in terms of allowing the lies to flow, allowing the crimes to flow. And the Democrats better be very, very careful, because if you dig two ditches, you might find one for you, too. Corruption cut across.

10:42I actually want to talk a little bit more about that point. I think that a cornered dog is often the most dangerous because it feels like it has to fight for its life. And I wonder if that is what the president feels like right now by his own making. And the question is, if that dog bites back, who does he end up biting? Because at some point, he could actually end up biting the 51 % that actually voted because you get so stuck in your ways that you say there is no war and yet your policies enable gas prices to go higher, that you make erratic decisions that really ultimately cause the most harm to the most vulnerable.

11:24And it's not just black and brown people that are vulnerable. It's white folks that are vulnerable. Everyone feels very vulnerable. So I'm just curious, the next two years could actually chip away more at his coalition because he feels like he needs to go lower than he already has. Terry? Look, I don't know. I don't think this is a race thing. I listed off, you know, there are out of the top 10 states where cost of living is absolute worst. Nine of them are Democrat states. Right. I don't think that voting in super majorities for the black community has really worked out well for them. They're they're in real big trouble.

11:58The father's rate is way too high. I'll fact check that black fathers are in the household more at a disproportionate higher rate than other fathers. I have no clue what you're talking about. You're saying the fatherless rate? The fatherlessness rate in the black community is the worst out of all the demographics in this country, unfortunately. That's a stereotype, actually, but you can continue. I'd love to see your facts and figures on that. I will, because I had a father in my own home, so I'm going to actually win. Well, that's called anecdotal, and that's okay. But look, things are not going great in this country for the black community.

12:28We can all admit that. It needs to be doing better. But, you know, putting all of your chips in one basket when the Democratic Party has not worked out. They take black voters for granted, period. And I don't think that that's a controversial thing to say. Things are not going great for anyone in this country. That is exactly why we had this election turn out the way it did on Tuesday. And I take some of your points. I take some of your points. But things are going poorly in America for everybody. And my point is that they're not going to get better under the Democrats' role. We'll see. What's the Democrats' plan to lower prices?

13:00I'm just curious. Because all I've heard is printing more money, which is going to make the K-shaped economy even worse. You mean like giving people$5 ,000 for money? Hey, I'm with you on that. But it's all inflationary. So we're going to print more money to deal out to all of these NGOs and the Democrats' friends. What's going to actually make our lives better? What's going to make life affordable for young people so they can afford to get married, have kids, afford a home? That's what I want the Republican Party to turn into. But with the Democratic Party, we're seeing way too much grievance politics.

13:29But, Brother Terry, Brother Terry, I think we would agree that at this point, neither party has what it takes to deal with the massive suffering of, what is it, 25 % of black children still live in poverty? Now, how is it that black folk support anti-Trump policies, and yet here we save the democracy, and yet our children end up in the back of the bus? Why is that the case? Well, because neither party speaks to the issue. Republicans had a chance. They didn't. Democrats are going to have a chance. One person actually who has been speaking to that, and I think has made a very interesting point, is one of the things that voters roundly rejected was the corruption, of course.

14:07And we keep hearing that Gen Z in particular is flirting with socialism and that people are over the free market. The reality is the free market has lifted more people out of poverty than any other system in human history. And Ron DeSantis is making the point that we need to bring those principles back. And he's been quite critical of the Trump administration, saying there's too much corporatism, There's too much crony capitalism. What we need and what the future of the Republican Party needs is somebody who blends in, obviously, a lot of. And Trump himself said MAGA. I think MAGA is just common sense.

14:35Right. So MAGA with some of those with some of those with some of those free market principles. I think a lot of people would disagree with that. Let me just jump in here. Very promising. Let me just jump in here. I think there's a you know, there's a general consensus that things aren't going right in this country. Democrats are now getting their turn to see if they can figure it out because the American people gave their verdict, which was that they didn't like it. But I want to come back to something that you said, because you talked about a sort of moral and spiritual bankruptcy. And I do think that that is something that a lot of people feel.

15:12Young people, back to this. That's why you've seen a huge push of young people joining the Catholic Church, et cetera, et cetera. And I was very interested in how President Trump answered this particular question when he spoke to CBS's 60 Minutes this past weekend. Let's say you pass away. You're entering the next life. and all you have to do to enter paradise is feel love and forgiveness for James Comey, Nancy Pelosi, anyone who you have expressed hate for over the years. Do you think you can do it? Well then I wouldn't be real, would I? I found them to be extremely dishonest people, very bad people, very bad for our country.

15:57I love our country. Is the answer no? The answer is no. You are telling me that before the judgment throne of God you couldn't find it in your heart to forgive some of your enemies? After all that's been given to you? Come on, help me out here. Can I be honest? I probably cannot do that now because I do hate some of my enemies and I always will. That feels like an epitaph right there. But he said that before. Trump has been very honest about his hatred. Sure, but I think asking if you're sitting before the throne of God, he purports to be a religious man and and that you wouldn't find it in your heart to forgive but the questioner didn't ask the right question tell me every human being is going to hate their enemies that's what it is to be human the question is are you open enough to a divine grace that will empower you to be aid to you in order to enable you to love your enemies you can't do that by yourself.

16:57I say that as a Christian because I got a lot of gangsta in me just like Trump got gangsta in him. But he chooses to be a gangster and I'm a gangster I'm a redeemed sinner with gangster proclivities so that I know I have a grace that I have assets to that allows me to love my enemies to the best of my ability. I follow my face so that Trump just being honest he's into hate he hates enemies and he's not open to a grace as of yet even though he says he's presbytery. Terry you're a religious man do you concur? I do and I I think that that's the hardest thing that Jesus teaches is to love your enemies and pray for them.

17:31I can just say from personal experience, it's a much better life to live. You're more sane. You're a happier person when you forgive your enemies. I'll just, I mean, I've had people do really terrible things to me and my family and my friends. And you just got to get over it. You got to give it to the Lord. He is the ultimate judge. I've done my fair share of bad stuff. And my counsel to President Trump would be let it go. Let your, you know, forgive us to your enemies because it's playing. It's taken up a lot of rent. But the way you are able to do that is you have to realize that it's bigger than you.

18:01Absolutely. And I think that is one of the things that I don't think this president has yet wrapped his head around is that this election was actually bigger than him. This country is bigger than him. And people's suffering is bigger than him. But the story is always about him for Donald Trump. Next, breaking news tonight. The impeachment effort against Pete Hegseth is underway, and the defense secretary is likening it to hating the troops. Plus, the president is confronted about his wealth exploding in office as his attorney general threatens Democrats for investigating it. We'll discuss.

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19:15Listen up. Sam's Club has pre-made dishes for a Thanksgiving feast that's ready in two hours, all while tasting suspiciously homemade. Come join us. Sam's Club. Individual oven times may vary.

19:34Pete Hegseth says he's not worried as he faces a new push to remove him as defense secretary. GOP Congressman Thomas Massey filed articles of impeachment today against Hexeth. They include waging war without congressional approval, ignoring laws that minimize civilian casualties, and directing the Defense Department to carry out extra judicial killings. A House vote is expected by Wednesday. Hexeth has denied wrongdoing and remains defiant.

20:24President Trump, meantime, has vowed to stand by his guy.

20:56Will you stand by the heads of that he's impeached? right move. We knew that this was going to happen. Massey promised it. Do you think it'll pass? It was a little personal because Pete Hegseth was down there campaigning for Massey's incumbent. And this is obviously his one last kind of shot in Congress. He's trying to go down with a fight. You know, I don't know. People impeach each other all the time. Even if it happens, I'm not that alarmed. Trump was impeached multiple times. His first presidency. Mayorkas was impeached under Biden. I think this is frankly. But it hadn't happened before that for decades and decades and decades.

21:32I mean, like almost 100 years. But this is also a sign. I think obviously Massey is getting it started, but this is a sign of what Democrats are going to be doing once they have power. Brad Landers said, oh yeah, Hegseth is just the first. So I think this is a clear indication that this is maybe the road that Democrats want to go down. And to our earlier conversation, you know, that's a choice. I don't know that that's going to address any of the issues that voters actually put them in office to address. But I feel like this is just more political theater, you know? No, I think Hegsef is the person who is guiding our military and deciding to be in a war that ultimately is the reason why gas prices are so high.

22:04Like, that is why diesel is so expensive. That is why people can only put a quarter of a tank in their car right now because of the war in Iran. But wasn't it President Trump who made the decision to go to the war in Iran? Yes, both of them. So why are you then, you know, impugning Hegsef? The guidance, but he's also done, like, again, striking boats in the Caribbean, when it's clear that maybe the people on the boats, they were supposed to be drug cartels and they might have been civilians. There's a list of things that he has done. I think this is not political theater. This is actually really important.

22:36I mean, if you remember, he was the first person that was sending classified documents over Signal Gate in the very, I know that feels like a lifetime ago, but like those things happened under his leadership and his confirmation in and of itself from the very beginning was questionable. And I think there is this is when you talk about corruption and accountability. I think this is the thing that Democrats are going to have to do. I don't know if this vote will actually go to the Senate and he will be impeached and removed. But when didn't when Democrats take power in January, they need to be able to hold people accountable.

23:06If this war and attacking schools in Iran with young people living there, they need to be able to hold people accountable while also then improving the price. Hold on one second. I'm going to play what Thomas Massey said, actually, about why he brought these articles of impeachment. Let's listen. We're not indicting him for being bad at his job. In fact, he was very effective at killing schoolchildren in Iran. He was very effective at extrajudicial killings. There's no argument in these impeachment articles that he's ineffective. The argument here is that he's broken laws and he's violated the Constitution.

23:45has he broken laws i mean this is the thing we really want to understand as the american public is the war in iran legal is blowing up people in the caribbean legal is what happened in yemen legal i feel like we've been having these discussions for months and we still don't we still have not landed on we've got one side saying it's legal we've got another side saying it's totally illegal i don't know if impeachment will clear some of that up but honestly these are really big questions and I think the public deserves answers. The public might deserve answers, but I mean, Terry, could this be seen as Democrats going after Pete Hegseth in the way that they went after Secretary Mayorkas because they're not going to go after the respective presidents who ultimately are the people who are deciding these policies?

24:32Well, I do think President Trump is the one responsible, obviously, for this war. He was one that made the decision and Pete Hegseth is serving under his administration. I am with Lydia. I think that this is a show vote. I don't think it's serious. There was a vote earlier this summer where they wanted to pull back the funding for the war. Democrats have to do that in this next term once they take power in January. That's when we'll know that all of this stuff is real. That's the real way. If you want to wind down the Iran war, you've got to defund it. You don't get rid of Pete Hexed. And by the way, that creates a whole other problem.

25:04If you actually do get to the 66 votes to get rid of him, who are you going to, who are Democrats going to allow President Trump to have at the Pentagon. I have no clue. We're just going to have no department of war at this point. But so, look, I think it's a show vote. I don't think they're serious. But also, I think it's a really bad warning of what's to come, because we were told this election by Democrats that we're going to solve the cost of living crisis. But the first things they're doing is trying to get rid of Pete Hakeshut. But this is Thomas Massey. This is Thomas Massey. He's also Democrat.

25:34The danger is that the corruption and the cowardliness and the callousness in Washington in both parties is so thorough that once you snap that veil and one team starts going at the other team and then the other team has their own corruption and then the American people sit back and say we don't want to disappoint and disenchanted we've got a political class that is so beholden to big money and corporate power taking money running elections what do we do with these folk that's going to be the real challenge because when you talk about war it can't be just a matter of i've got lower groceries so that it's bad that you're killing girls in iran and iranian baby got the same value as a baby in palestine and in tel aviv and loygos and havana anybody else what happens to the moral dimension it's an immoral war it's an unconstitutional war is not tied to just my groceries.

26:33Yeah. But wait a second. It's got to be deeper than that. But the war is unpopular. Yeah. I don't know many people at this particular point in time who feel like there's more value in pursuing it. Even if you might have supported the goals to begin with, most of the people feel like those goals have largely been achieved if it was to sort of delay or push back the Iranians' nuclear program. So how do you get out of this war then? I mean, this is the question that I actually am not clear who has the answer to this. I don't know that impeaching Pete Hegseth gets you out of the war on the Democratic side.

27:13And I haven't heard Republicans give many good ideas about what exactly this is going to look like either. Yeah, I think that there's a there's a multi-pronged approach that might be at play here. I think Americans do want somebody in our government to be held accountable for this war. And I think but I just want to be really clear. It is that this is still a Republican Congress. This is still a Republican Senate. This is still a Republican president. Before the election, Republicans were talking about PCSF. So I know that it could be convenient in January. Throw it at the Dems. But right now, this is Republicans impeaching Republicans.

27:45So I think that if in January, if now he becomes he's impeachable, then that is one part because people want somebody to be held accountable. from everything and an indication that I've heard from people who are ideating on what, how do we get out of this war? Unfortunately, it's going back to, or not unfortunately, but we're, we've lost so much time because a lot of people have introduced going back into negotiations with Iran, going back to the similar JCPOA that Obama put in place and like reversing time when you have people now who have been killed, service people who have been killed, cost of living has gone up because of this war when this president just shouldn't have extracted us from that agreement before.

28:25And the big problem is that there's an entirely new leadership in Iran that is much more hardline and doesn't have the same memory of what came before. Next, the president's attorney general threatens Democrats for teasing oversight as Trump is confronted about his wealth exploding in office. And we'll debate that next.

28:49making decisions. Sometimes you make questionable ones, like buying a new TV that's too big for the wall because the electronics store employee was a little too good at their job. Then sometimes you make great ones, like protecting your home and auto with Progressive. You get customized coverage options so you can be sure you have the right coverage. Get your quote today at Progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company affiliates and other insurers not available in all states.

29:23Donald Trump wants to investigate the investigators, and Attorney General Todd Blanche isn't ruling that out. Trump said Saturday he would have DOJ look into threats of impeachment and other forms of punishment made by Democrats against key allies of his. He says the threats are absolutely unprecedented and totally illegal, and the, quote, sleazebags behind them should, quote, go to jail for what they are doing. On Sunday, Blanche accused Democrats, including incoming Oversight Committee Chair Robert Garcia, of taking things too far. Before they're even in power, they're already talking about investigations and impeachments with no basis, no facts, just out there running around.

30:04That should be something that President Trump is very concerned about, and certainly I am as well. Have you been listening to the rhetoric the past couple days? You honestly think that all they're doing is talking about their oversight obligations when they're talking about going after basically every member of the cabinet. They're talking about impeachments. They're talking about going after companies, private companies who happen to have made investments in this country over the past couple of years. That is not oversight. Noel, Todd Blanche, they're acting as the president's lawyer or acting as the head of the Justice Department?

30:37You know the answer to that. Right. So the rap on Todd Blanche from the beginning has been he thinks he is President Trump's lawyer and not his actual job. And this is another case where it certainly seems like that's the tack he's decided to take. I think there are two important things here. I think, number one, a lot of what Todd Blanche has tried, the Comey prosecution, the$1.8 billion slush fund, it has not actually worked out because we still do have, for the moment, laws in this country, which is great. However, however. It is great. You're right. I think Todd Blanche is making a fair point about being careful about the language that's used when it comes to oversight, not letting it careen too far into sounding retributive.

31:17Because Americans are really ticked off about corruption. They are really ticked off about the fact that people in government got rich while they were getting poor. But I do think you've got to message the right way. And over messaging seeming retributive, seeming like you want to go after your enemies, I think the Democrats have got to be careful. All right. Well, let's actually listen to Congressman Robert Garcia, who spoke to Dana Bash. This is the most corrupt family to ever be in the Oval Office in the White House. I mean, Donald Trump is the most corrupt person to ever be president of the United States.

31:52You have Don Jr. getting hundreds of thousands of dollars from a Russian oligarch for his wedding, sitting on boards of companies that are getting contracts from the Pentagon. You have Jared Kushner getting$2 billion from the Saudis after leaving the White House. So yes, you're going to investigate them. Absolutely. Are you going to call them in to testify? They should be expected to answer questions. So to Noelle's point there, there's language. But Robert Garcia is making the case that this is a family that has enriched itself in office and that they should be held accountable by a co-equal branch of government.

32:28Yeah, that's how our nation works. And if there's corruption, they'll find it, I'm sure. But look, I shudder every time I hear Democrats talking about oversight, because what they mean is really a euphemism for weaponizing the government against 74-year-old grandmothers who pray outside of abortion clinics, against parents at school board meetings who show up to voice their concerns about what their kids are being exposed to in school. We've seen what the Democrats' oversight looks like, and it's weaponizing the government and putting people in jail that shouldn't be in jail. So, look, this should go on.

33:03They're going to do it anyway. But again, Americans elected these Democrats to solve the cost of living crisis for their families. They want Democrats to work with Republicans. But one of the things that they were able to do is link the corruption with the cost of living. Yes. I mean, they made that connection to the American people. They weren't just talking about groceries. They were saying, look at the gentleman who's building the ballroom. Look how much money he's made. and how is that helping you? Yes. I mean, Republicans have also been making that case about all of the fraud that we've been seeing across America.

33:37That's something that J.D. Vance has been trying to kind of drill down into as a messaging point, saying all of the fraud that we're seeing, that's linked to affordability. You're talking about Minnesota. Because of fraud, right, in Minnesota. I mean, I think as much as$10 billion in California, all of these places. So that's in their own way the Trump administration is trying to go after that. I think a big concern, and something that I hear speaking from people, is they point to remarks, for instance, like those of Lisa Slockens, who recently was saying, I want to go after young staffers. We hear this from folks like Kara Swisher saying, oh, big balls, he should be in jail.

34:06Elon Musk, he should be in jail. It's like, show me the person and I'll show you the crime. And that is a sort of sentiment. I don't think she said he should be in jail. Okay, I'm sorry if I missed. Okay. Also, Kara Swisher is not an elected official. We hear a lot about the sentiment of wanting to put people who are political opponents behind bars. And that's scary. I think particularly Elisa Slotkin suggesting that she wanted to target younger people who are just beginning their careers, who should feel incentivized to serve. The fact that she's calling that out specifically, I think, is really alarming.

34:38OK. Donald Trump went after Tish James. Comey. Y 'all help me out because there's more I can't even think about. The list is so long. He ran an election in 2024 about retribution. OK, so save me on all of this. Now, I don't think... I will be your vengeance, I think he said. Yes. Like, again, you have made the bed you have to lie in. I'm sorry. And I know you're going to go back to Biden. I know you're going to do it. No, that's not what I was going to do. Because that's what you always do. I'd just like to see Tish James' mugshot. I'd like to see James Comey's mugshot. Because there's one person that was arrested by the Democrats over fraudulent, trumped-up charges.

35:18And you know what? He was found guilty by a jury of his peers. And that's how the jury... Oh, please. We not believe in juries anymore? Oh, okay. No, we can jury shots. We can do it too, but we don't do that. But you know what? What? What are you talking about? You actually, like, if we actually ran... Where are the mug shots? Because they didn't do anything. Because when they went in front of the grand jury, they didn't... Tish James literally said, I'm going to get him regardless. We'll find the man and find the crime. How about this? That's what she said. How about this? We're going to use Tish James as an example of not weaponizing government.

35:44You guys are saying... You all are saying that you don't want the Democrats to do exactly what your guy just did. No, no, I asked you to come up with more than just Tish James and James Comey. because you can't even think of any more. I'm actually saying. One more. Just one more that he went after. I don't think Lisa Cook at the Fed. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Where's her mugshot? Where's her trial? She didn't do anything. The Supreme Court rolled in her favor. Wait a second. That's our point. This is what. Wait. Hold on. Hold on. This is fascinating to me. You're saying that because grand juries did not indict because they found no evidence of wrongdoing, that is somehow proof that somehow Democrats are more.

36:23What I'm saying is the government was weaponized against President Trump in a way that we've never seen before, completely unfairly. And he didn't take retribution. And you know what? Where's the retribution? We're all waiting for it. He didn't. Where's the retribution? He tried and he missed. Just because you're not successful, he's not a successful. Just because you're not successful doesn't mean you don't try. He tried in the system. Democrats are still trying after 10 years, Ashley. No, we're not. We're not. Hold on. You've been trying to burn the jail. I want to take us back. Actually, hold on a second.

36:51Hold on. Because because I want to just a billion dollars. That's all I'm saying. You made a billion dollars in the last two years. You're talking about Democrats. I just want to take this past memory lane here. And remember when Republican leaders took over in 2022, the House majority. This is Representative James Comer. Let's watch. This is an investigation of Joe Biden. And that's where the committee will focus in this next Congress. If Secretary Mayorkas does not resign, House Republicans will investigate every order, every action, and every failure will determine whether we can begin impeachment inquiry.

37:38Now that we have the majority in the House of Representatives, I expect our party to pursue impeachment next Congress. Secretary Mayorkas has committed high crimes and misdemeanors. I mean, you know, it doesn't seem. Where did those all go? Well, they impeached Secretary Mayorkas. Well, hold on a second. No, but wait a second. My point about this is that this is, you cannot say that this is something that only Democrats are doing. No, I'm not. When they came in, you know, they discussed impeachment, investigations. I'm saying it's incomparable, Lulu. It is not comparable what Democrats did to President Trump and what Republicans have done to any Democrats in the last year.

38:20I also think, Lulu, I mean, Republicans are crossing their fingers, hoping against hope Democrats only do the lawfare. Because the reality is whoever goes beyond a lawfare and actually tries to address the cost of living, the affordability, the things that voters actually care about. We've seen the swingiest voters pretty much ever in the last couple years. Republicans are hoping the Democrats get distracted. And if they do, it's going to do well for them. What happens if we find out that that$100 ,000 that was gone to pay for a wedding actually played a role in policy decisions or favors to this country?

39:00What happens if the plane that this president got, we find out while we were deciding going to go to war, that played a role? What happens if the billion dollars plus that he's made is actually on the backs of the Americans? We're going to get your answer after the break. We're going to take a break and we're going to continue the discussion.

39:37with Progressive. You get customized coverage options, so you can be sure you have the right coverage. Get your quote today at Progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company affiliates and other insurers. Not available in all states. The secret society of semi-homemade? Listen up. Sam's Club has pre-made dishes for a Thanksgiving feast that's ready in two hours, all while tasting suspiciously homemade. Come join us. Sam's Club. Individual oven times may vary.

40:13And we're back and we enjoyed this conversation about lawfare so much that we are continuing it because we apparently cannot let this go. Terry, I interrupted you for a break, so take it away. Well, it actually asked the question, what if this$100 ,000 payment is actually fraud and there actually is some there there? And my answer is the same thing that happened to the boy that cried wolf. The same thing that happened to Chicken Little. No one is going to believe it even when they see it because of all of the false accusations that we've seen be disproven. Right? You have the Russia, Russia, Russia collusion hoax.

40:47You have no accountability. No, no, no. I got to listen to this. No, but the challenge is, I think we can all agree, accountability without fairness is just vulgar retribution and revenge. and both are forms of moral bankruptcy. It undercuts rule of law and you end up the rule of the jungle. One of the reasons why I started with the black folk coming to rescue the democracy is because the black freedom movement has been the 11th in the American Democratic loaf. And at the center of that movement has always been a morality and a spirituality that's about love, freedom, being a wounded healer and a joy sharer.

41:23Even when the vast majority of Americans would have supported slavery, The vast majority of Americans would have supported Jim Crow. What did black folk do? We couldn't talk about democracy. That's the tyranny of the majority. I appreciate this. We had to go moral, spiritual, political mobilization. Ooh, what a people. What a people. But I want to understand, just succinctly, I want to understand, though, what should happen with Democrats now taking over. Do you think that they actually should be doing these investigations or not? Well, no, if it's in a spirit of accountability. If it's a spirit of vengeance.

41:55No. It doesn't have a moral character to it. I think you said that humans are about hatred and vengeance, though, in their heart. Well, no, but we have possibilities. That's what the grace kicks in. We're wretched, but we can be wonderful. But what if, okay, because I hear what you're saying about that people might not believe it. But at some point, we actually have to have adults in the room. And so if we have Republicans who are saying they want to impeach, pick, accept, there will be Republicans on these committees, too. They will see the same evidence. they will be able to say, you know what, I'm going to call a spade a spade.

42:30And there was and we need to have something accountable, not because a party is putting party is putting country over party. And if we don't, then I do worry that we're in the same vicious cycle. And the people who ultimately lose will be the voters. I do think ultimately the danger here, and I think this is true, what everyone has said, is that what the voter will hear is wow, wow, wow, more of the same and not actually this is making my life better. And so there is a danger there that this is the first thing that they're hearing is, again, Republicans and Democrats fighting with each other. What if Republicans, though, actually do align with Dems and that is the way to actually get some of the accountability and get Donald Trump to turn the page or you all turn the page on him?

43:16That could be a way to free yourself of the Donald Trump Republican Party. I'm all about teaming up with Democrats. You just got to tell me what the issue is. I just don't see it. Right. I think part of the reason why our politics has gone so awry is because it used to be the two parties agreed on where we were going. Right. They didn't agree on how to get there. They agree on what car to drive. But now we don't even agree on where to go. Right. And I think that's the big challenge for America. Do you think there's anything strange about the one billion dollars, two billion dollars at the president?

43:46Do you think there's anything there at all? Does that make you feel a little uncomfortable? Well, look, what President Trump said was you should own stocks. And I think that's great. But you don't care. We've got to go. Make it quick. No, no. No, we're going to go. I want to hear it. No, no. Speak your truth. Look, we have to fix the economy. I don't like that there is a whole class of people in this country that's making way more money than the people that don't own things, right? Amen. But I don't know. I have no clue. You're asking me to speculate about possible criminality. I know that other presidents have had made money, not this much, obviously, but he's also a billionaire.

44:21So, like, you got to take into consideration he had billions in assets to invest. They also didn't start their own crypto company while in office. Next, we'll react to your feedback from CNN.com slash Abby.

44:44Now my favorite part, viewer feedback from CNN.com slash Abby. We're going to start with a question. Who do you guys think, other than Jeffries and Schumer, should be Democratic leaders? I guess that's for you, too. Oh, I mean, we've heard Slocken raise her name. Van Hollen raise his name. There's probably Warnock. You know, I think people who are looking at 2028 might not think that this is their shot. Look for there's other ways to lead in this party on the House side. I'm always like support black woman. I love a good Ayanna Pressley. There are people out there. I think the caucus will just have to decide who it is.

45:20All right. I love how Trump continues to admit that he has hate in his heart, but MAGA keeps telling us that he is a good Christian. Is he a good Christian? I don't even think Trump claims to be a good Christian. Look, our job as Christians is to bring as many people with us to heaven as possible and to spread the gospel at all times. And we got to preach gospel love and we got to work on President Trump. Obviously, he should forgive his enemies, if only for his own personal sanity. The good news of the gospel, right, is you don't have to be perfect. You have grace and forgiveness. But you've got to love God, love your neighbor, and the rest is commentary.

45:59If your light is not shining, thank God for Fannie Lou. Hey, this little light of mine, I'm going to let it shine. If it's not shining with love, something's wrong. Well, I've got to, this one's for you. I love when Brother Cornel West is on the panel because it's like I'm sitting in a college classroom again. Oh, my God, that's kind of. Thank you all for being here. Before we go, you can stream the show live or watch on demand anytime with an all access subscription. And thank you for watching Newsnight. Laura Coates Live starts right now.

46:48coverage options so you can be sure you have the right coverage. Get your quote today at Progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company affiliates and other insurers not available in all states. The secret society of semi-homemade? Listen up. Sam's Club has pre-made dishes for a Thanksgiving feast that's ready in two hours, all while tasting suspiciously homemade. Come join us. Sam's Club. Individual oven times may vary.