Are you overstimulated?

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1:06Kimberley Wilson:Hello and welcome. I'm Kimberly Wilson. I'm a counselling psychologist and this is Complex. The psychology podcast that helps you make sense of the mess and the mayhem of information that's out there about our mental health. In today's episode, I'm exploring sensory overload. You know what I mean. Maybe you're stuck in traffic, horns are blaring, the sun is glaring and your t-shirt tag is itching the back of your neck and suddenly it all just feels too much. The sights, the sounds, the smells, you've hit capacity and you can't take anything anymore.

1:53Kimberley Wilson:now research tells us that nearly one in three people are prone to this kind of overload because they're more sensitive to sensory information so my dear listener if this sounds familiar we're going to help you make sense of the topic with an expert guest So, let me be your guide from the deafening sports hall of misinformation to the serene sauna of understanding.

2:27Kimberley Wilson:I'm joined today by charter psychologist Dr Ellie Buckley. Hi Ellie. Hi, I'm so excited to be here. Delighted to have you here. Can you let our listeners know a little bit about your work? Yeah, sure. So my background is mainly academic. I have a PhD where I looked at autistic people's experiences of working in the arts. Also, I used to work as an assistant psychologist in autism and ADHD assessment services. And now I'm in consulting doing a mix of organisational psychology, user research and thinking a lot about accessibility and inclusion quite broadly. and it's probably worth saying that some of our listeners may recognize your name from the fourth series of the traitors where you were one of the trusted faithful keeping it real i mean there's a lot going on on a set lots of people lots of cameras did you experience any sensory overload yourself while you were in that i was thinking about this i think it was more emotional overload i was quite stressed about trying to suss people out and then you know if you've watched the show you know I had my boyfriend in there and then I lost him and I didn't know who to trust but actually do you know what for me actually the round table room was very cold so I struggled with how cold I got in that room and I did struggle to focus so maybe that was a bit of a sensory overload where I was struggling to follow what people were saying because I was just thinking about how chilly I was.

3:46Kimberley Wilson:So that was a very specific environment. Does sensory overload show up anywhere else in your life? Oh definitely. I am quite sensitive to noise. The sound of people chewing I like to have the radio on in the background if I'm eating with someone else. Does that include at home? Yeah, absolutely. I cannot eat in silence. It just drives me crazy if I'm listening to someone else chewing. Okay, thank you for sharing that. I think this is going to be a fantastic episode.

4:14Kimberley Wilson:So we might be talking about terms that people might not be familiar with, so I always like to start with a definition. Can you at least spell out what sensory information means? Yeah, so we've got those kind of five key senses that we all know, your hearing, your taste, your touch, your smell and your eyesight. But then you've also got your internal sensing. You've got vestibular sensing, so that's your sense of balance and movement. You've got interoception, that's your awareness of your internal states, like whether you're hot, whether you're cold, whether you're in pain, are you hungry, thirsty?

4:48And then you've got proprioception, so that's your space in the world and your relation to objects. So knowing where my fingertips are when I outstretch my hand.

4:56Kimberley Wilson:Exactly. And so how do we process sensory information? In the brain. You know, we've got nerve receptors all over our body and processing all that information. But it's the brain that's making sense of all of that information. And so what happens then with sensory overload? If the brain is designed to pick up this information from our senses, what does it mean to be overloaded with that information? so we can think of sensory overload when perhaps you have a sensory sensitivity combined with being triggered by sensory stimuli in the environment and essentially your brain is struggling to take in that sensory information you've kind of reached your limit and you're then feeling overwhelmed you're not processing it well you might become quite distressed okay so if ellie you're a shepherd stay with me everybody if you're a shepherd and sheep are the sensory information it's like your brain is trying to get all of the sheep into a pen and so some people have maybe a bigger capacity pen and they can hold much more sensory information whereas some people much more naturally have a smaller pen and so there might be too many sheep trying to get into that processing space yeah Yeah, absolutely.

6:10And we talk about perceptual capacity, your ability to process information. And some people just have bigger perceptual capacity than others. And so they can take in more information at once and process it and sort it and organise it and understand it.

6:24Kimberley Wilson:And that's not necessarily something that's learned. That just seems to be how people are wired, their kind of constitution, how they're built. Yeah, absolutely. But, you know, you can also build up your ability to kind of tolerate sensory stimuli as well. And so when I'm online, using it intentionally and not doom scrolling, of course, and I see, you know, all these posts about, you know, I'm overstimulated or here are three things to do when you're overstimulated. Is that always true overstimulation? Because sometimes it feels like maybe you're just overwhelmed and there's too much going on.

6:58Kimberley Wilson:What's the difference or the similarity between the two? I think it's also personal isn't it I think you have to understand why you're kind of displaying those behaviors is it because of something going on in the sensory environment or something you're feeling sensorially inside you or is it an emotional state you might be in it can be a blend as well because when you're more stressed you might have more sensory sensitivity so there can be an interaction between the kind of state that you're in yeah just your overall capacity Yeah. So with your background in research and practice, I wonder if you're able to kind of paint a portrait for us of what sensory overload might look like for someone.

7:42Yeah, sure. If I think back to a lot of the autistic people I've worked with, a lot of people might experience sensory overload if they're autistic. it might be that you've tried to travel somewhere and you've got onto the tube if you're struggling with your proprioception you might have had to use a lot of effort just to get down the escalator first of all and then you're faced with the smell of the commuters you might be getting touched when you really don't like to be touched and then there's the noise of the tube and the motion of the train and you know you haven't even arrived at work yet for instance but you've already had to take in so much sensory information and so by the time you're spat out at the other end you might feel overloaded at that point and when you're overloaded you might struggle to kind of function normally you might have what you could term a meltdown um where you get very distressed angry panicky you know upset or you might go into a kind of shutdown mode where you just have to kind of stop and you withdraw and you can't really speak and you need to just take yourself away and try and decompress.

8:51Kimberley Wilson:And I'm thinking if you've been in a rush hour commute with the noise and the sounds and the people and then you get to work and what you need actually is to be quiet maybe just for 10-15 minutes or something but then you're expected to be a good colleague and to perform or to talk and to chat and that can I guess only increase the amount of overload that you might be experiencing. Yeah, absolutely. If you don't have, you know, a built-in decompression time to kind of bring yourself back down to level, that's very, very challenging. And I think a lot of people arrive at work feeling quite flustered, you know, and it's a hard start to the day.

9:28Kimberley Wilson:And Ellie, you mentioned and your research is in autism, but is this kind of sensory overload experience something that other people experience? Yeah, absolutely. You know, everyone can experience sensory overload from time to time, but certain populations are more prone to sensory processing differences and so yeah if we think about neurodivergent people in the sense of autistic people or people with ADHD and people with mental health or psychiatric conditions, schizophrenia, bipolar, depression, you know that could actually be a kind of hyposensitivity. You might be actually processing less information than a typical person at that time.

10:05Kimberley Wilson:Thank you and I think this is going to be a really helpful topic for a lot of people. So let's get into the complexity.

10:16Kimberley Wilson:What day-to-day are the things or the environments that can impact our ability to process sensory information? If you're going somewhere which has got a lot of sensory stimuli, like if we think about the supermarket, for instance, or the open plan office with fluorescent lighting. honestly I feel like there needs to be a campaign against the open plan office and I just know so many people who find it so difficult and if we're talking about one in three people who might be prone to sensory overload the idea that a third of the office is struggling with people walking around just having conversations around them it's just not really very sustainable yeah and then if you try and put on your headphones some people might perceive that as rude and yeah it's very challenging so yeah I would say those kind of environments where there's a lot going on if you think about the light and the noise and the smell you know maybe the temperature as well.

11:13Kimberley Wilson:And what about kind of internal states so would I be more sensitive or more prone to overload if I'm tired or hungry? My main two states. Yes absolutely your ability to tolerate sensory stimuli that you might not like absolutely is going to change based on your own internal states and that's both your physical states and your emotional state you know if you're stressed you're more likely to be sensitive if you're tired if you're hungry yeah you know if you're being exposed to some sensory stimuli that is overwhelming you then it's going to show up for you probably in that moment so my example is if you know i can hear my poor boyfriend ross chewing over dinner.

12:00I get so frustrated and snappy. Like my response is anger. And so I'm like, right, we better put the radio on. So I've got some background music and I suddenly become a much nicer person to eat dinner with.

12:12Kimberley Wilson:I started the episode by saying that one in three of us, the general population, is prone to sensory overload. But is it higher in the autism population? Well, the research is so mixed. I think it depends on how they look at it. But the estimates are that autistic people experience sensory differences. Between 50 % to 96 % of autistic people report it. So I know that's such a wide-ranging statistic. And it is part of what's considered when you're being assessed for autism. It's part of the diagnostic criteria. You don't have to have sensory processing differences to receive a diagnosis of autism, but it is considered.

12:49Kimberley Wilson:And so what would be the questions on a diagnostic assessment that would look at that feature? It would cover all the senses, like are you sensitive to light and sound? You know, how do you feel about the labels on your clothing? That's a really common one for autistic people. I think a lot of people really hate the labels on clothing, find them really itchy. But you also see hyposensitivity in some autistic people. So that's kind of an under-responsiveness to stimulate. So some people really enjoy bright lights and colour because they're kind of seeking more sensory input than the typical person.

13:24Kimberley Wilson:So I'm wondering about the outcomes. So if we use the work example, you've got to go to work every day. Everyone's back in the office. Do we know what the outcomes are if people are frequently overloaded with this information? I mean, I'm going to speak more to autistic populations because that's the research I'm most familiar with. but it's going to have an effect on your mental health if you're constantly in distress and so yeah I think there's absolutely a relationship between constantly going into sensory overload and having to struggle through that and then maybe anxiety depression you know just poor mental health outcomes yes I imagine a kind of sense of dread if you know that you know here I go into the fray you've kind of got to put your armor on that feeling of having to brace yourself in order to engage with the world must be really demoralizing and eroding to your kind of sense of well-being.

14:21Yeah and I think it depletes your energy for the rest of your life doesn't it? If you're having to use so much energy to make it through your day you're going to come home exhausted, you're not going to have time for self-care, you're less likely to engage in the activities that you enjoy doing and the relationships that you're part of as well.

14:37Kimberley Wilson:We've been thinking about the downsides but being sensitive to sensory information doesn't always have to be negative, does it? No, definitely not. It can be really positive for people to understand what their sensory preferences are and lean into them. Again, if I think specifically to the autistic population, a lot of people talk about that sensory seeking behaviour, but everyone can do that. You know, seeking out the things you do enjoy, like smells that you love, you know, the kind of lighting that you really enjoy, the sounds that you like to listen to. I love like visual stimuli, like I love sparkly things.

15:08I'm covered in jewellery all the time and I like bright lights. So I've got a preference there.

15:13Kimberley Wilson:I love a roller coaster. And actually, I love the funfair. I love all of the high things. So like a big Ferris wheel or the waltzer where they come around and spin you. It's already spinning. So your vestibular sensing, if you like it, lean in. So that's really good because what it means is if you understand your sensory preferences, actually, you can use them to find more pleasure and enjoyment in your little daily activities and adventures. Yeah, absolutely. Pick the things that work for you. Lovely. Thank you.

15:52Kimberley Wilson:So our listeners will know that I do like to pop our topic onto a little bit of a scale, just so that we can have a sense of where we fit in the bigger picture of the issue that we're discussing. So Ellie, if we have overstimulation at one end and under or hypostimulation at the other, what would that mean for the way that we engage with the world? If we think about hyperstimulation first or overstimulation, you might see someone becoming quite distressed or you might be distressed if you're the one experiencing it. So they might be irritable, panicky frustrated um interestingly some people with adhd report when they're getting over stimulated and they're receiving too much sensory information they can sometimes get really over excitable first of all before a big crash and then you know under stimulation you might just see someone not responding to something that you might expect them to respond to whether that be loud noise or touch or something like that okay so that maybe someone wouldn't be startled yes By a loud noise.

17:03Yeah. Obviously, if we're watching someone under-respond, as we might perceive it, there can be a lot of reasons for that, and it might not be to do with their sensory processing at all. So, it's worth bearing in mind.

17:13Kimberley Wilson:Absolutely, yes. We never fully know what's happening, but it can be an indication perhaps for some people. So, kind of wherever you sit on the scale, being curious about your reactions to certain familiar common situations, overcrowded trains, loud noises, bright lights might give you an indication of the way that your brain is processing information and what your tolerance to it might be. Yes, definitely. And I would go through all the sensors one by one to try and think about what about it might be difficult for you. Is it the visual? Is it the sound? Is it the smell? Is it a combination? Lovely.

17:52Kimberley Wilson:Thank you.

17:57Kimberley Wilson:so for everyone listening who finds themselves struggling with sensory overload and they're wondering what they can do ellie what would you suggest i think you can take a three-step approach where you think about what you can do before you get into that situation where you're likely to get overloaded you can think about during and you can think about afterwards so in our kind of before thinking this is when you can think about what might trigger you what can be really helpful is to keep a sensory diary if you feel like you're getting overloaded a lot and you think it's due to sensory sensitivity start trying to write down every time it happens and what's happening at that moment and what was happening just before it as well to try and get a sense of what's going on for you and then also you can prepare if you know that you have sensory sensitivity to noise you can take your headphones or if you're sensitive to light take your sunglasses or if you really struggle with the smell maybe you have to bring something that smells nice to you to hold it against your nose as you go through that environment and then when you're actually in the situation it's about regulation at that moment it's you know how can you self-regulate can you do exercises breathing exercises grounding exercises and then once you're out of that situation it's about how can you now decompress one tip I love from occupational therapists they said if in doubt probe it out which means engage your proprioception and engage in some exercises to help you tolerate and regulate through sensory overload and so like heavy muscle work weight lifting gardening exercise yoga pilates things like that if you do that before entering quite a stimulating situation that can be really helpful.

19:45Kimberley Wilson:Okay fantastic that sounds really helpful really practical. Yeah. I'm wondering on the flip side if you are the friend or a partner of someone who experiences sensory sensitivity how can you be helpful or how can we kind of even in environments more socially be helpful? If you're the partner or friend of someone and you know that they've got kind of sensory sensitivity knowing their triggers can be really helpful so that you can help them kind of do what's best for them in that situation and maybe cover for them you know maybe encourage them to take a break from the situation if you're say at a busy party you can remind them hey why don't you just take 10 minutes outside and just you know take a break from this i'll cover in the conversation yeah maybe having a quiet room at a party like you're throwing a party having a space where the introverts or the people who experience sensory sensitivity can quietly escape yes definitely I love like I love it at festivals that often have chill out spaces or even in my office there's a quiet room and it's a perfect place just to decompress sometimes and so is the solution always to reduce the sensation you're experiencing or decompress?

20:59No, I think you can also bring in some more sensory input that works for you. Like if I think about a lot of people with ADHD might end up fiddling with something to help them focus in on a conversation. So that's actually bringing more sensory input to help them or, you know, I'll listen to loud music on the tube to help me drown out the tube noise, for instance.

21:19Kimberley Wilson:I think it's really important and helpful to kind of recognize that some people have different tolerances and sensitivities and not to try and kind of push that person unnecessarily. Yes, absolutely. I think actually that's probably where we should start is both your self-compassion and your compassion for others and recognising that we are all different and we do take in the world differently and being accepting and respectful of the fact that what can be very pleasant and easy for you can be really challenging for someone else. And earlier on you were talking about how it might be possible to increase our tolerance to sensory information.

21:55Kimberley Wilson:How might we go about that? So I would lean on occupational therapists here. They're the experts in how to manage your sensory processing and maybe how to build your tolerance. And so I know that occupational therapists work a lot with autistic people who might be struggling with their sensory processing and they will use things like sensory diets where they're encouraging people to engage at different points in the day with different sensory sensations and sensory integration and sensory circuits where you're essentially trying to do different kind of things to stimulate different senses but that has to be carefully managed if you're really struggling so I would say seek out professional help if you're really struggling.

22:39Kimberley Wilson:Ellie that's great and what I love about this episode is that I feel like it's taking psychology into the world in a really helpful and practical way. So first of all, we're really explaining for a lot of people why they might feel overwhelmed in what we might consider to be everyday normal situations. And so hopefully people can experience a bit more kind of understanding of themselves and perhaps a little bit less confusion or shame about their experience. But then also, I hope that everybody in office policy is listening. You know, this is neuropsychology and neuroscience, and we're talking about how these individual differences make a real impact on someone's well-being, their capacity to do their work, their capacity to enjoy their work, and that we might need to rethink efficiency over well-being of our staff teams.

23:40Definitely, definitely. It's, yeah, it's also interlinked, isn't it? You know, yes, it might be biology, but it absolutely affects how we show up in the world and how we show up for other people.

23:54Kimberley Wilson:Okay, we are coming up to the end of the episode. So I want to thank you, Ellie, for joining me today. Thank you so much for having me. I've had so much fun talking it through. And thank you to everyone listening. I am on a mission to clear up the mental health space. All of the nonsense, the misinformation, the lack of nuance. Please note, though, that I can't answer you personally. So if you have a concern about a medical or mental health issue, then I'd strongly urge you to seek expert help. And if you want details or further support with some of the issues raised in the podcast, you can find them at bbc.co.uk forward slash action line and the link is also in the show notes on BBC Sounds.

24:35Kimberley Wilson:And that's it. Thank you to my guest, Chartered Psychologist, Dr Ellie Buckley and thank you to the lovely production team at Loftus Media. Producer and researcher, Samara Linton. Assistant producer, Katie Chandra-Clark. Executive producers, Kirsten Lass and Rami Zabar. Technical producer, Ruben Huxtable. Studio engineer, Felipe Rojas. Sound engineer, Ruth Rainey. and at BBC Sounds, Assistant Commissioner Izzy Lee Poulton and Commissioning Editor Rhianne Roberts. I'm Kimberley Wilson. Thank you for listening. Take care and go gently.

25:20Kimberley Wilson:How does someone invent a political theory that reshapes the map of the world? How do you get to a scientific breakthrough that saves thousands of lives or create works of art that stand the test of time. How have brilliant thinkers through history done their best thinking and what can we learn from them? From BBC Radio 4, it's the second series of Human Intelligence with me, Naomi Alderman. From Karl Marx to Marie Curie, from Emily Bronte to Leonardo da Vinci. How did those exceptional minds do their work and are there ways of thinking we can emulate today? To find out, listen to Human Intelligence, on BBC Sounds.