In short
Complex Podcast Episode Notes
Episode Title
How Can You Let Go?
Podcast Summary In this episode of "Complex," host Kimberley Wilson delves into the often misunderstood concept of "letting go" with guest Dr. Charlotte Cooper, a psychotherapist. The discussion seeks to clarify what “letting go” truly means and how it can facilitate personal change and growth. Through listener stories, particularly one from a person named Helen, they explore the complexities of letting go of emotional burdens and the processes involved in navigating change.
Key Themes and Discussions
Understanding "Letting Go"
- Ambiguity of the Term: Kimberley expresses her frustration about the term “letting go,” highlighting that it can mean different things to different people.
- Synonyms for Letting Go:
- UK Dictionary: let slip, abandon, neglect
- US Dictionary: releasing, liberating, freeing
- Personal Interpretation: Dr. Charlotte prefers the American perspective, associating letting go with self-acceptance and freedom.
Listener's Dilemma
Helen's Story
- Background: Helen reflects on the impact of her father's abandonment when she was two years old, expressing feelings of anger and disappointment.
- Key Question: Helen seeks clarity on whether letting go means releasing pain, accepting events, or something else entirely.
The Process of Letting Go
- Grief and Loss: The conversation emphasizes that letting go often involves a grieving process for lost relationships or ideals.
- Acceptance and Change: Acknowledging one's current reality is essential before embarking on the journey of change.
- Fear of Change: Dr. Cooper discusses the terror of letting go and how it can inhibit personal growth.
Steps for Letting Go
- Identify What Needs Letting Go: Acknowledge which emotions or situations are no longer serving you.
- Create a Plan: Establish practical steps to facilitate the letting go process, starting with manageable goals.
- Seek Support: Engaging with supportive individuals can provide encouragement throughout this journey.
- Rituals: Engaging in symbolic actions can help mark transitions and support emotional processing.
- Self-Compassion: Being kind to oneself during this process is crucial. Celebrating small victories can help maintain motivation.
Challenges in the Process
- Sunk Cost Fallacy: The tendency to hold onto negative relationships or situations out of fear of wasting previous investments (time, energy, etc.).
- Identity Crisis: Letting go can raise questions about identity and what life will look like post-change.
Final Thoughts
- Non-linear Journey: The path of letting go is not always straightforward; it may involve returning to old feelings before fully moving forward.
- Embracing Vulnerability: Acknowledging feelings of fear and uncertainty is part of the transformative journey toward letting go.
Conclusion Kimberley Wilson and Dr. Charlotte Cooper aim to empower listeners with a clearer understanding of letting go, emphasizing that the journey is deeply personal and varies for each individual. The episode encourages reflection on personal narratives and the potential for growth through the process of change.
Call to Action Listeners are encouraged to send in their questions or stories for future exploration on the podcast. For those needing immediate support, Kimberley advises seeking professional help.
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These notes encapsulate the core discussions, themes, and practical advice shared in the episode, offering a structured overview for anyone interested in the topic of letting go.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOUnderstanding Letting Go
2:25 to 4:28
Exploring the meaning of letting go and its various implications.
“In today's episode, I'm exploring letting go.”
Listener's Dilemma with Helen
4:28 to 8:10
Discussing a listener's experience with letting go and grief.
“Well, I was going to watch a film last night because I thought it looked really silly.”
The Complexity of Letting Go
8:10 to 14:01
Examining the multi-faceted nature of letting go and the associated fears.
“Well, when somebody dies usually or if you lose something that's important to you or if there's a change in your life or what's sometimes called a biographical disruption.”
Understanding the Sunk Cost Fallacy
14:01 to 16:46
Learn about the sunk cost fallacy and its impact on decision-making.
“you can survive the downside and that there is skill and transformation and benefit in that part as well.”
Navigating Change and Letting Go
16:46 to 19:16
Explore the courage and kindness needed to embrace change and letting go.
“Also remember that you don't have to let go.”
Setting Goals for Change
19:16 to 21:40
Discover practical steps to set goals for the process of letting go.
“Okay, so if we're thinking about Helen or other listeners, that question of how do we begin this process of letting go?”
The Role of Rituals in Transition
21:40 to 24:02
Understand the significance of rituals in supporting transitions and personal growth.
“And also it's a creative act as well, which I think is really important to generate something, to make something beautiful, maybe to make something with other people as well.”
Finding Clarity in Letting Go
24:02 to 26:20
Gain insights into the complexities of letting go and the importance of acceptance.
“I hope people have more tools to think their way through things and to embrace some change and not to live gripped by fear of change and growth as well.”
The Story of Toto Wolff
28:15 to 28:45
Explore the journey of Toto Wolff from racer to billionaire.
“A man straps himself into a car on the world's most dangerous racetrack.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Kimberley Wilson:This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.
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1:06Dr Charlotte Cooper:Warning, the following ZipRecruiter radio spot you are about to hear is going to be filled with F-words. When you're hiring, we at ZipRecruiter know you can feel frustrated, forlorn even, like your efforts are futile, and you can spend a fortune trying to find fabulous people, only to get flooded with candidates who are just fine. F***! Fortunately, ZipRecruiter figured out how to fix all that. And right now, you can try ZipRecruiter for free at ziprecruiter.com slash zip. With ZipRecruiter, you can forget your frustrations because we find the right people for your roles fast, which is our absolute favorite F word.
1:42Dr Charlotte Cooper:In fact, four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Fantastic. So, whether you need to hire 4, 40, or 400 people, get ready to meet first-rate talent. Just go to ZipRecruiter.com slash zip to try ZipRecruiter for free. Don't forget, that's ZipRecruiter.com slash zip. Finally, that's ZipRecruiter.com slash zip. Hello and welcome. I'm Kimberly Wilson. I'm a counseling psychologist, and this is Complex. The psychological podcast that I hope can help you find your way through all the confusion that's out there about our mental health. In today's episode, I'm exploring letting go.
2:30Dr Charlotte Cooper:So the thing is, letting go is one of those terms that I would go so far as to say really annoys me.
2:43Dr Charlotte Cooper:It sounds profound. It sounds worthy. But what does it mean? That is my issue. So this is a good episode for me personally, and hopefully, dear listener, you as well, as you join me as we work our way through it. And as usual, I've invited an expert guest to help me unpick the topic. And together, we're going to explore a listener's dilemma. So let me be your guide from the stale biscuit tin of misinformation to the freshly baked cheesecake of understanding.
3:21Dr Charlotte Cooper:Today's guest is psychotherapist Dr. Charlotte Cooper. And Charlotte, I am very, very happy that you have agreed to return to the Complex Studio. Well, why wouldn't I? Thank you so much for having me back. The last time you were here, we were talking about lying, another topic that I absolutely loved discussing and how lying can corrode us. And it was such a well-received episode. And listeners, if you haven't heard that one already, you can find it in the Complex feed on BBC Sounds. And maybe if you're a Traitors fan, you can learn a few things as well. So why does this topic of letting go appeal to you?
4:02Dr Charlotte Cooper:Have you had to let go of something or someone? What does it say to you?
4:06Kimberley Wilson:Well, I think letting go is a really interesting phrase or idea because it can mean lots of things. It can mean change. It can mean recovery. It also makes me think, what's the opposite of letting go? Holding on tight? Clinging. Yes, clinging. Yeah, what needs letting go? How do you let go? Is it easy? Is it difficult? And have I let anything go recently? Well, I was going to watch a film last night because I thought it looked really silly. Ended up being boring. So let that one go. Watch something else instead. Yeah. So I think letting go is something that you're always doing. I think it's, this might sound pretentious, but a practice maybe.
4:49Kimberley Wilson:So yeah, it's a metaphor, but also a concrete action as well.
4:55Dr Charlotte Cooper:So I think that is exactly it. It's such a broad term with so many different potential meanings and associations. And that's really what I want us to be able to get to grips with. So let's get into the complexity.
5:12Dr Charlotte Cooper:What's the first thing that comes to mind for you? If I were to say to you, Charlotte, you need to let go. Giving up a bad habit.
5:20Kimberley Wilson:Okay. That's what comes to mind immediately. completely letting something go, something that isn't serving you, something that has become a bit stale, something that needs to be given the boot.
5:31Dr Charlotte Cooper:So that's really interesting because the team here at Complex have been looking into some synonyms for letting go. And let me present you with two different lists. So the first one is from a UK dictionary and the synonyms for letting go are let slip, pass over, omit, neglect, ignore, disregard, shirk, abandon, shake off. Oh, that's really interesting. But the American dictionary, loosening, releasing, unlocking, expressing, freeing, emancipating, liberating.
6:07Kimberley Wilson:Well, this might explain why nobody really knows what it actually means. And it means everything and nothing. So if there are multiple definitions of it, what's your preferred one?
6:19Dr Charlotte Cooper:I would lean towards the American style. That would be my temptation. What about you?
6:25Kimberley Wilson:Well, I think that's lovely, actually, because it brings to mind things like self-acceptance, relief, freedom, liberation, even purpose. Yeah. And these are lovely things. Thank you, Charlotte.
6:40Dr Charlotte Cooper:That's really helpful. And I think it starts to illuminate the complexity of this idea, as does really our inbox, because we've had so many submissions from people asking about how to let go of some often very serious concerns and worries and issues. And I've got an email here from someone I'm going to call Helen in order to protect her identity that really highlights this kind of concern. Love you to give a listen and tell me what you think. So Helen says, my father left my mother for another woman when I was two years old. Although I was too young to consciously understand it at the time, that absence has cast a long shadow over my life.
7:27It has been a continual source of disappointment, anger and frustration, not just for me, but for my mother and grandparents as well. I believe I'm a kind and loving person despite this difficult start in life, but I still carry a lot of bitterness and anger towards my father.
7:47Dr Charlotte Cooper:And so Helen asks, I'd really like to understand what letting go means. Is it releasing the pain or accepting what happened or is it something else? What actually helps someone begin that process? Grief.
8:07Kimberley Wilson:Grief process. Loss.
8:09Dr Charlotte Cooper:What do we mean by grief?
8:11Kimberley Wilson:Well, when somebody dies usually or if you lose something that's important to you or if there's a change in your life or what's sometimes called a biographical disruption. the life you thought you might have isn't the life that you end up having and you have to find a way of coming to terms with that if you're to survive that rupture and that involves changing growing doing things differently crying usually so yeah it's a process of coping with loss that's what comes to mind immediately when I think about her story that is what came to mind for me as well
8:48Dr Charlotte Cooper:the feeling was that there hasn't been a mourning process here there hasn't been a process of grieving and allowing that sadness and that confusion that that two-year-old felt. The vibe I got was that there was something keeping the disappointment, the anger, frustration alive for Helen.
9:05Kimberley Wilson:Yes, and maybe it was the adults around her as well. How was that experience in her early life talked about?
9:12Dr Charlotte Cooper:What was the story, either implicit or explicit, and that the meaning of that story will really matter to that process of mourning and grief?
9:19Kimberley Wilson:What I really like about what Helen's presenting is not a binary. She says, is it this? Is it that? Or is it something else? You know, she hasn't locked herself into it. That feels very promising to me. Yeah, very hopeful. Thank you.
9:33Dr Charlotte Cooper:So Helen, you're asking some really pertinent and profound questions here about what it means to let go and how we do it.
9:47so returning to my issue with the term it's a phrase that has a lot of universality
9:54Dr Charlotte Cooper:you know we can apply it to thoughts to emotions to places and people and each one of those letting goes might require something quite different but what are the things
10:10Kimberley Wilson:they have in common as well they might be about change and then what do we know about change what does a change process look like for example insight awareness i would be thinking about the dialectic
10:22Dr Charlotte Cooper:so the idea that you can hold the tension between this is a thing that i don't want or don't like or needs to change alongside but this is where i am this is my starting point okay and there's something about acceptance in that?
10:41Kimberley Wilson:Yes, I think so. And kind of planning as well. You know, as you move into that action part, you need to put things in place, I think. So yeah, there is some acceptance that something actually does have to change and nobody's going to be able to do it for me. It's down to me to do this. So you line up your pieces and think about what you have and how you can put them into play, I suppose. Not that I want to go too far with the chess metaphor. I'm not a player myself. Grandmaster Shana Cooper. But yeah, there's something about making a plan and that plan could include getting some support from somebody, for example, talking it out, thinking about what to do when things go wrong, how to measure success, not to be too cold about it, but you know, how do you know when the thing has happened that you want to happen?
11:32Okay, so why is letting go so hard?
11:36Dr Charlotte Cooper:And what are the risks of letting go?
11:39Kimberley Wilson:Sheer terror. What would it be like? I mean, unimaginable. I can't imagine things being different. Who am I without this thing? What would I be without it? I feel too fragile to exist without it. This is all I've ever known.
11:54Dr Charlotte Cooper:But even when that thing is a negative thing, you know something that's getting in the way so who am I without this grudge this grievance against this person who has harmed me in some way yes who am I without this identity that actually no longer fits me or feels right for me and that kind of void in space of who I become and how the world might treat me or how I relate to the world if I become something different yes for me that void
12:26Kimberley Wilson:is exciting because anything can happen there. Really good things can happen there. But when you're gripped by the fear, all you can see at that point is, yeah, doom and disaster. So my job is to, you know, might not be all that. A little encouragement. And how would you start that? I'd be thinking about the pros and cons of taking a particular line of action. I'd come back to dreams and desires. You know, how do you want to be in the world?
12:55Dr Charlotte Cooper:And would you think about the flip side of that? Because the things you've been describing are very positive, optimistic and hopeful. Would you be reminding people potentially of the risks of holding on when it comes to emotion, for example, we know that having a very tight grip on negative or harmful feelings can harm our physical and mental health?
13:18Kimberley Wilson:Yes, of course. It doesn't mean avoiding the things. It means remembering that you can cope with the things and the things that might happen might not be the absolute end of the world for you, that you've got more capacity than you give yourself credit for.
Read the full transcript
13:32Dr Charlotte Cooper:Yes, because we often forget that we've changed in lots of ways over time, you know, going from primary school to big school. That was a pretty big change and we were terrified of that
13:41Kimberley Wilson:at the time, but you did it and here you are. A reminder and also, well, when you went from primary school to big school, how did you cope with that? What happened? You know, what are the
13:50Dr Charlotte Cooper:things that you know that you can draw on as you approach this shift? So there's the planning you described for the change, but also planning for if and when things go wrong. So reminding people that you can survive the downside and that there is skill and transformation and benefit in that part as well.
14:09Kimberley Wilson:Yes, it's all about growth, I think. Relapse isn't the end of the world. It's something that you learn from. If you can bring yourself to do that, if you're not completely consumed by the shame of having failed.
14:19Dr Charlotte Cooper:I think we can have cognitive biases that are kind of getting the way. One of the big ones I come up against is the sunk cost fallacy. For the listener, the sunk cost fallacy is when you keep pouring resources, whether that's time, energy or money, into something that's no longer working simply because you've already expended all of that resource. So if it was an investment, you know, the investment is tanking and you still keep pouring money and that idea of pouring good money after bad. Or if it's a relationship that you know is over and it's not working anymore, but we've been together so long and it's the fact that you've been together which is the only thing that's keeping you there.
15:01Kimberley Wilson:Well, there's that expression about putting on your big girl's pants and facing up to reality and the sunk cost fallacy i mean i'm thinking of an expedition i went on to go and see an artwork up a mountain i totally underestimated the weather it was snowy we had trainers on it wasn't gonna work we traveled for ages to get to this thing no we're gonna die if we stay here we have to turn back get in the car and go home so there's something about even when you've invested a lot, you know, what's the cost of proceeding?
15:33Dr Charlotte Cooper:Yes. I think what's worth pointing out here is we're talking about change. And that takes a bit of courage, doesn't it? It takes a bit of bravery to make those steps.
15:47Kimberley Wilson:You have to be brave. And I think there's something in there also about being kind to yourself, giving yourself little rewards for every step of the way. You might get it from other people but you can't count on that but what's important is that you give yourself that encouragement and permission to change and to grow so thinking about helen's questions she says
16:09Dr Charlotte Cooper:is it releasing the pain is letting go accepting what happened or is it something else all of them
16:16Kimberley Wilson:all of them and more and i imagine as the process unfolds more questions will come to her as well because it can't be known from the outset you have to go through the process and this is the part where us therapists say that old cliche of trusting the process trust the process and what's the other one the only way out is through the only way out is through everybody i'm so sorry but it's true yeah
16:45Dr Charlotte Cooper:so we're thinking about letting go we're thinking that it might sit on a scale what might that look like?
16:55Kimberley Wilson:Start with the easiest things first. Also remember that you don't have to let go. It's not a crime. You can hold on for as long as you need to. You could hold on and let go and go back to holding on. You could let go for now, but come back to it. Or, you know, you can find your way through, but, you know, it doesn't have to be a linear journey from one to another.
17:23Dr Charlotte Cooper:so we've got our two individuals and we've got one person who is saying no I don't want to let go let's say this is who I am this is who I will always be and then at the other end you've got someone who's actually much more dismissive nothing matters I'm not connected to anything I walk on the water of the waves of life and nothing touches me um both of these sound
17:48Kimberley Wilson:problematic problematic i might say a little bit yeah to put it mildly you need some level of attachment but you need some level of growth and changes as well i'm not really into people living at extremes in general uh i guess the people that i'm more likely to see are less of the cavalier end and more of the clinging on the end what is our beautiful middle ground the sweet spot might It be about acknowledging your vulnerability, but acting anyway, to allow yourself to have all the feelings that are always going to come up when change happens. But also, yeah, the bravery, the hope, the possibility to keep them in mind, to know that there's something on the other side that is probably better than what you've got at the moment.
18:38Kimberley Wilson:Yes.
18:39Dr Charlotte Cooper:It's often much simpler, much more clear cut to sit at one of the poles. because your identity is very clearly defined there. Whereas in the middle ground, there's a lot more kind of working through and working out moment to moment that needs to happen.
18:55Kimberley Wilson:Indeed. And I think transitions are very wobbly. They're wobbly spaces. You don't know how it's going to turn out. And you're in this kind of strange process of becoming and unfolding and making a new sort of life for yourself. And again, I just find it helpful to acknowledge that. And if you feel wobbly, there are good reasons for it. But it doesn't mean the process isn't important or valuable. Or that you're doing anything wrong. Exactly.
19:22Dr Charlotte Cooper:Okay, so if we're thinking about Helen or other listeners, that question of how do we begin this process of letting go?
19:32Kimberley Wilson:I'd think about what I want to get out of it. So I might be thinking about setting some goals. There's that magical question, how is it now and how would I like it to be? And it's the bit in the middle that needs addressing. I'd be thinking in very practical terms, actually, about what it is, what needs to be done. And that's when the plan comes in. And I'd start with the easiest things first. And I'd be thinking about rewards and encouragement and who might support me with it. And I might think about keeping the door open a crack as well, just in case I needed to go back to where I was.
20:11Dr Charlotte Cooper:A place to return to. Yeah, yeah. Because I'm thinking about Helen. Then I think for her, the question is, how do I let go or move on from disappointment, anger and frustration?
20:26Kimberley Wilson:What are the sources of those feelings? Can they be tweaked or adjusted? Can they be brought down a notch? Yeah, what are the small things that she can do already? And what has she been doing? It might be worth thinking about how she's coped for so long.
20:42Dr Charlotte Cooper:Yes. Really, what does she want to do with her father? And that can be internally, psychologically, or it can be in the real world. Does she want to forgive him? Does she want to understand why he behaved the way he did? It feels like there needs to be a decision made for her about the meaning of this.
21:02Kimberley Wilson:there's also an issue here about what's within her control and what isn't she might want dad to be a completely different person well sadly that's unlikely to happen i mean it might happen but if it hasn't happened so far you might want to adjust your expectations around what's possible
21:18Dr Charlotte Cooper:there so there's something about a consideration of where i am and how i got here an awareness we might think about a kind of mindful awareness of what I'm feeling, when I'm feeling it, how I respond to those feelings. And I suppose the other thing I wanted to ask you about was the importance of rituals and the way that rituals can really support our transitions.
21:49Kimberley Wilson:Well, I was thinking for Helen, there might be some kind of celebration about her survival, her resilience even with this difficult start in life she might want to make an annual date to treat herself nicely around it but yeah I think ritual has a really important place and it's sort of symbolic actions I'm not sure about trying to make things disappear or investing so much in the ritual and expecting that to to fix things by itself yes I think that's true as part of a wider repertoire of of action i burned an ex-boyfriend's letters because i i thought it would help me kind of let go and now i really wish i remembered what he said ricky mistake there yeah could have published them instead right content yeah so as a as part of a broader course of action, I think ritual is great.
22:49Kimberley Wilson:And also it's a creative act as well, which I think is really important to generate something, to make something beautiful, maybe to make something with other people as well. You might connect with other people over it.
22:59Dr Charlotte Cooper:The Buddhist monk Thich Nhat Hanh said, if in our heart we still cling to anything, we cannot be free. And I think it really speaks to this idea, and it'd be good to get your thoughts on it, Charlotte, about acceptance being a kind of prerequisite. It feels paradoxical, but that in order to let go, we first have to kind of see where we are.
23:25Kimberley Wilson:This is where I'm at. This is who I am. This is what's going on right now. To see the present reality with clear eyes, to understand and to consider that there might be something else that is out there that you could go for.
23:41Dr Charlotte Cooper:And that in doing that, in saying this is where I am, trying to do that non-judgmentally.
23:48Kimberley Wilson:It's a tall order, but that's the name of the game. If you can hit that sweet spot, then you're golden. But it's tricky, but it's not impossible.
24:02Dr Charlotte Cooper:Charlotte thank you very much this has been so helpful for me partly because I got to have a little rant but also because we've added I hope some clarity to the breadth of meaning of this phrase which I think is just so often kind of posted with a beautiful sunset in the background without any real context and depth and content to it.
24:30Kimberley Wilson:I hope people have more tools to think their way through things and to embrace some change and not to live gripped by fear of change and growth as well.
24:42Dr Charlotte Cooper:Okay, so thank you very much again to you, my guest, psychotherapist, Dr. Charlotte Cooper. Thank you. And thank you to everyone listening. As you can hear, it is my mission here on Complex to clear up the confusion, the detritus, the mess that is the mental health space. And I want Complex to become your trusted place where you can get information and helpful tips from experts. And I need you to tell me what you want me to talk about. So send us an email, send your story to the team, a couple of paragraphs to complex at bbc.co.uk. But also please note that I can't answer you personally. If you have a concern about a medical or mental health issue, then I do strongly urge you to seek expert help.
25:32Dr Charlotte Cooper:And if you want details or further support with some of the issues raised in the podcast, you can find them at bbc.co.uk forward slash action line. And the link is also in the show notes on BBC Sounds. And that is it. Thank you to Helen for emailing us. And lastly, thank you to the very lovely production team at Loftus Media. Producer, Kirsten Lass. Assistant producer, Katie Chandler-Clark. Researcher, Samara Linton. Science editor, Rami Zavar. Technical producer, Ruben Huxtable. Digital editor, Richard Berry. Studio engineer, Matt Hewer. Sound engineer, Ruth Rainey. And at BBC Sounds, Assistant Commissioner, Izzy Lee Poulton.
26:14Dr Charlotte Cooper:And commissioning editor, Rhian Roberts. I'm Kimberley Wilson. Thank you for listening. Take care and go gently.
26:53Kimberley Wilson:From Karl Marx to Marie Curie, from Emily Bronte to Leonardo da Vinci, how did those exceptional minds do their work? And are there ways of thinking we can emulate today? To find out, listen to Human Intelligence on BBC Sounds.
27:14Dr Charlotte Cooper:Warning, the following ZipRecruiter radio spot you are about to hear is going to be filled with F-words. When you're hiring, we at ZipRecruiter know you can feel frustrated, forlorn even, like your efforts are futile. And you can spend a fortune trying to find fabulous people, only to get flooded with candidates who are just fine. F***! Fortunately, ZipRecruiter figured out how to fix all that. And right now, you can try ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash zip. With ZipRecruiter, you can forget your frustrations. because we find the right people for your roles fast, which is our absolute favorite F word.
27:50Dr Charlotte Cooper:In fact, four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Fantastic. So whether you need to hire four, 40, or 400 people, get ready to meet first rate talent. Just go to ZipRecruiter.com slash zip to try ZipRecruiter for free. Don't forget, that's ZipRecruiter.com slash zip. Finally, that's ZipRecruiter.com slash zip.
28:14Kimberley Wilson:It's 2009 and we're in the German mountains. A man straps himself into a car on the world's most dangerous racetrack.
28:21Dr Charlotte Cooper:He whispers to himself, It's time to put my balls on the dashboard. As he starts the engine. In 15 minutes, he's in an ambulance, unconscious. In 15 years, he's a billionaire. This is Toto Wolff, Formula One's most powerful team boss and the breakout star of Drive to Survive. This week on Good, Bad, Billionaire, how Toto Wolff made his billions. Listen wherever you get your BBC podcasts. Thank you.
From the publisher
Kimberley thinks the term ‘letting go’ has too many meanings. She talks about it with her guest psychotherapist Dr Charlotte Cooper and together they ask how we can let go of the things that stop us from changing and growing. Kimberley Wilson, chartered psychologist, is on a mission to sift through all the information and misinformation that’s out there around our mental health to help create more self-awareness and understanding.
She invites expert guests - trained psychologists, psychiatrists and psychotherapists - to join her and together they share insight and valuable tips.
You can get in touch if there’s anything you would like Kimberley to explore. The email address is complex@bbc.co.uk. We might use what you tell us in the show, but we will do so anonymously. If you don’t want your email to be included in the podcast, then please remember to let us know.
Kimberley is not able to answer emails personally. If you are concerned you have a medical or mental health issue, then please contact your GP or seek expert help. Please also take a look on the BBC Actionline page: https://www.bbc.co.uk/actionline/ where you can find details of organisations offering information and support for common issues.
Complex is a Loftus Media production for BBC Sounds. Host: Kimberley Wilson Guest: Dr Charlotte Cooper Producer: Kirsten Lass Assistant Producer: Katie Chandler Clarke Researcher: Dr Samara Linton Science Editor: Rami Tzabar