A Rolex, a gold bar, a trade deal and the ethics of presidential gifts

0:00You've heard the old adage, don't show up empty-handed. But what do you get the president of the United States when you're visiting the White House? For a delegation of Swiss business executives, the answer for the CEO of Rolex was gifting President Trump a gold-plated desk clock styled like a Rolex watch. And how do you top a Rolex? Well, the CEO of a precious metals company presented an engraved gold bar, according to the Swiss newspaper Blick. Now, Trump is not the first U.S. leader to receive fancy gifts from foreign representatives. In 1985, Saudi Arabia gave Ronald Reagan a gold and enamel egg with a tiny bejeweled clock inside.

0:36Like the pair of Komodo dragons Indonesia presented to President George H.W. Bush. The country of Azerbaijan gifted the Clintons in 1997 a fancy rug emblazoned with their portraits on it. In this case, the Swiss businessmen were officially at the White House to discuss, quote, bilateral cooperation and mutual prosperity. but their prosperity is greatly tied to the U.S. market and the steep tariffs the Trump administration imposed on Swiss imports this summer. Their visit came last week, and this week, the White House announced a deal with Switzerland lowering the tariff rate from 39 percent to 15 percent.

1:12It appears as if there's a quid pro quo of a gift from foreign interest to the president in return for concession on tariffs. Richard Painter was the chief White House ethics attorney under George W. Bush. He's now a law professor at the University of Minnesota. Once this precedent is set, we'll have other countries and industries offering the same. And this is a matter of grave concern for the United States. Consider this. This year, President Trump or his family's businesses have been offered a plane, crypto investments, and now a Rolex and a gold bar, among other things. What gifts can a president accept and why does it matter?

1:51From NPR, I'm Scott Tetra.

2:04Government officials from Switzerland and the United States were the people who actually hammered out the new Swiss-U.S. trade deal. But negotiations had stalled after a phone call this summer between President Trump and his Swiss counterpart. They appeared to restart after this group of Swiss business executives visited the White House bearing gifts. I spoke about this with the University of Minnesota Law Professor Richard Painter, who is also the former chief White House ethics lawyer for President George W. Bush. What did you make of the president of the United States being given a Rolex and a gold bar by executives who had a lot to gain from lower tariffs?

2:38I certainly view this as inappropriate. It appears as if there's a quid pro quo of a gift from foreign interests to the president in return for concession on tariffs. And once this precedent is set, we'll have other countries and industries offering the same. And this is a matter of grave concern for the United States. It's unconstitutional in the United States for the president or anyone else in a position of power to receive anything of value from a foreign government. That is unconstitutional. But if the gift is from a foreign corporation or private interest, it's not technically prohibited under the Monuments Clause of the Constitution.

3:22But it's still a very, very dangerous precedent to set that foreign interests can give gifts to the president and then get a concession on tariffs or anything else. There's also something we've seen with both Trump administrations that other presidents put guardrails around them. They followed norms. They followed accepted practices. And President Trump has just often made it clear he's not interested in following that. Is that an accurate way to frame it? There's a very accurate way to frame it. And the president feels he has the wind at his back because the Supreme Court has ruled that a president could never be prosecuted for a criminal act within his core constitutional powers.

4:01And President Trump believes that just about everything is within his core constitutional powers. And we also have a Congress that won't do anything about this. They won't hold the president to account. What normally happens under standard procedure when an executive or another world leader gives the president of the United States an official gift, especially an expensive gift, which I'm sure happens all the time, especially during a meeting talking about a policy change that could benefit that company or that country? In the Bush White House, when I was the chief White House ethics lawyer, when gifts were given to the president, it was brought to my attention.

4:39And only in very, very rare circumstances did the president accept the gift. And the president would never accept a gift in his personal capacity from a foreign power in excess of that which has been authorized by Congress. And the maximum there now is$480. Anything else cannot be a gift to the president. It could be potentially a gift to the United States from the foreign country, like the French gave us the Statue of Liberty and so forth. But the president, in his personal capacity, the maximum is$480. The Rolex clock in question, which I'm quite sure is over that threshold, was technically a gift to the American people.

5:18Does that matter to you? Is that a technical difference? Is that an important difference? Well, technically, let's see where it ends up. Is it going to end up like the 747 airplane from Qatar in the presidential library of Donald Trump, which will be a private organization? That's not a gift to the American people. And quite frankly, we don't need a clock. That's not what the United States needs. What is your pitch to the most skeptical listener out there that these types of regulations and norms matter? The integrity of our government matters. We have a government that spends a trillion dollars on defense alone, on our military.

5:58This is a government which we have the right to expect to serve the interests of the United States and its citizens. And it's really to put America first, not to simply repeat the America first slogan and then turn around and have foreign or economic policy influenced by the private financial interests of those who have power. That was Richard Pater, law professor at the University of Minnesota and the former chief White House ethics lawyer for President George W. Bush. Thank you so much for talking to us. Well, thank you. Thank you. This episode was produced by Tyler Bartlam and Brianna Scott with audio engineering from Simon Laszlo Jansen.

6:42It was edited by Patrick Jaron Wadonanam. Our executive producer is Sammy Yannigan.

6:52It's Consider This from NPR. I'm Scott Detrow. Thank you.