Inside YouTube's Most Popular Family (Jordan & Salish Matter Interview)

29:56Hey, can we do a video with Kato? Because, yeah, I feel like I just prefer to do videos with my friends because I can talk to them more instead of just being on set, you know? I'm curious, like, any other thoughts on it? Because you also set the ideas, right, Jordan? You bring them to Salish? Well, it depends on the scenario. So there's also a big distinction between these two videos. The video with Kato was a much more personal video yeah and the video with the stokes was a challenge-based romp yeah who cares who wins right it's just like we're having fun yeah and it's silly we didn't really learn something about salish so there's no personal connection yeah to the content in comparison to this boy and whether or not they're dating going to date or whatever that said it's a slippery slope and it's the kind of thing that comes with the evolution so when she was younger it's much easier it's about braces Now, she's 15, she's 16.

30:50Of course, she's gonna be dating and she's gonna be interested in that. Not of course, I'm sorry. For her, she's interested. And so that's gonna be happening. So then the question is, do we share that as part of the content because that is relatable to our audience or do we not? And the way I fall on that, if she's comfortable with it, is if we are modeling a healthy relationship, then I think it's okay. if it's gamified I cheated on my boyfriend or is he cheating or who do I love if you gamify it in a way that's not personal then I think that's when you might be pushing the boundaries a bit so in this video if you watch the ending it was like the whole context of that video the dating video the whole context is Kato's a really sweet kid and they had gone out privately.

31:47On an official date? Yeah. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Privately. Yeah. And then he texted me for real, privately, and said, can I take her out again? Which I thought, very respectful. And I said, well, that's her decision, not mine. So if she says, yeah, sure. And he wrote down five, I said, what do you guys want to do? And he wrote down five things that he would want to do with her. And then I said, to say, I said, there's a fun idea here if you want to do it. which is you guys can go on all five of these dates that he wanted to do on camera and then decide at the end if you want to go on another off-camera date.

32:20And that's what they decided to do. So it was kind of a fun version of dates, but it showed their connection. And then at the end, they decided they did want to go on another date. And then that's when I said on camera, we're not going to show that, nor are we really going to touch this anymore. So we got to the point where we showed one version of it. And then in my opinion, I don't think we should go back to that topic because that's when it starts becoming super personal unless they both want to do that, in which case we will. Did you feel pressure to say yes to that idea? No, I don't feel pressure from my dad to say yes because we're very close and I don't really care if I say no.

32:56I know that he won't take it to heart about his idea, so I don't really care. Do you feel pressure from the audience? Because I would feel pressure when I was your age from the kids around me in high school. do you worry about your relationship and the things about your personal life changing when you have an experience like this on camera like does any of that factor in because I know it would for me if I was your age yeah I feel like I've definitely started to like care more about what people think I guess but I still don't really care I feel like when we film it's just like I'm talking to a camera I don't think I'm like talking to millions of people that are watching the videos so I don't really care what people think I want people to be happy like I don't want them to be mad at me ever but if I see like a hate comment like it's okay I don't really care that much because I don't know I just don't care and I feel like I'm pretty confident in like the videos we make well I saw your response video to some of the comments about when you guys shut down the American Dream Mall yeah take me through that because that felt like a huge inflection point for you guys.

34:05Yes. Maybe you set the scene. You're launching Sincerely Yours, your product in Sephora. You're doing it at the American Dream Mall. Yeah. Tell me what happened and tell me about some of the response and how you handled that because there's a ton of commentary on TikTok afterwards. Yeah, definitely. Well, first we started thinking about Sincerely Yours like two years ago. Then we started formulating it like about a year and a half ago and really going through the process and everything. And I was definitely nervous that it wasn't going to sell or that nobody would care about it. So that definitely did bring me like a concern.

34:45But then we were flying to the American Dream Mall to go to the launch event. And I was nervous no one would show up. And we get there. And the night before, we were just doing a rundown of everything, making sure everything was good. And there was already like 20 people waiting outside. And it was probably like 9 p.m., 10 p.m. And I was like, whoa, like people might actually be here. And then I went to bed and I woke up and I accidentally woke up late. I woke up with 10 minutes until we had to leave. And I was supposed to wake up two hours early. But I woke up and my dad's calling me and he's like, there's a lot of people here.

35:18So then I go to the mall and I got taken through the back way there. And I was like, wow, like the entire mall is filled up. That's crazy. And just to put this in perspective, this is like over 80 ,000 people. Yes, and not even all the people were like in the spot that my dad was because there was another entrance where people were because there was too many. I was like, that's insane. Then I go out and I was on stage for like five minutes. I was telling everybody to like move back. And then I got taken off stage by the police officers. And my dad was like, Salish, where are you going? Because we still had 20 more minutes.

35:52And then they ordered 100 state troopers to come to the mall because there was too many people there. and I was like whoa like this actually might be dangerous for the people and I was very concerned and I just wanted to say hi to everybody and I felt so bad and I was already like I was in the back room and I was already seeing so many TikToks about how angry people were and all I wanted to do was go outside and say like I'm so sorry like thank you for coming I have to go but then they the police officer said that they would like fine us for trespassing if we didn't leave in five minutes. Oh, or arrest us.

36:28Yeah. The cops would arrest you guys? Yes, they would arrest us if we didn't leave. Yeah, if we went out to the mall to try and say hi to anybody, they were going to arrest us. Yeah. For trespassing. And we had five minutes to leave. But everybody was there to see you guys. Yeah. Yes. But what their concern was that there would be a, this is, I can't even believe I'm saying this, a stampede. We couldn't go anywhere because everybody was spread out throughout the mall. They would all hear that she was there and they would all come running back and they couldn't guarantee everybody's safety in that situation.

36:55Wow. even the meet and greet they allowed her to do it but basically pushed her in there without saying hi to anyone along the way yeah i only got to like i got like 10 seconds with each person and if they took longer they would be like no you gotta go you gotta go and i felt so incredibly bad because yeah because the line had gotten very much longer than the meet and greet line for people waiting so it was just overall it was it was an insane thing i mean my understanding is that other than the Sidemen Wembley Stadium events, this is the biggest creator event that's ever happened. That's my understanding.

37:33I mean, I doubt it, but in terms of the new world of creators, it's like 87 ,000 people. It's a ton of people. And we had never done an event before. We'd never done a meet and greet outside of a VidCon thing. So we legitimately had no idea how many people would be there. We heard stories about people flying from all over the world. one story that got okay so this we we went back the next day so we stayed overnight posted that we would be back at the mall anybody that came uh that missed seeing us please come and say hi so we were there met a bunch of people and one woman told me her story she's a single mom uh paying her way through college two kids drove down from canada all her kids wanted to do was to like meet salish and get a hoodie and they were smushed in the middle of crowds and it was pushing and shoving and a lot of parents lost their minds i mean if you start going through tiktoks you'll hear like parents were pushing kids out of the way to get their kid in front of the line and these these two girls had just cried all night because they they had she had spent all her savings to bring them there and so when i met her um of course you know we got her a dress to send her hoodies, did photos with the kids.

38:52I offered to reimburse her for her travel. And she's absolutely denied. I'm still emailing back, but please accept the money. She's like, I don't want the money. The fact that they were able to meet her and get the hoodies, all that mattered. But that's two people. On the next day. Yeah, the next day. 85 ,000 people might have left unhappy. And it was just not the best preparation from people who we had entrusted to make sure it went well. And also no way to anticipate that many people. Yeah, how did you deal with that, Salish? I mean, did those negative comments get to you? Because I pulled one up here that came from an adult.

39:36Yeah. And I'm just curious, like like jordan do you shield her from negative comments like this like since you try to turn off tiktok and youtube like um like this was one that was like oh my god hey guys so i just saw this video mind you she's been exploited since the day she was born what here's the thing you don't know me you don't know my dad and you never asked us like what the truth is so can you please stop making assumptions about us because it is really hurtful to say that much bad stuff about my dad when my dad would never do that. Well, I mean, God. I think that we got a lot of hate.

40:22Honestly, I think that it was deserved a little bit because we couldn't meet up to the standards that we set. That really made me sad that I couldn't meet everybody because that was kind of all I wanted to do. Like I was telling my dad when they were planning the event, like, I want to meet the people. Like, can we make sure we have like, I can meet them. And that was definitely a sad, like I was really sad that we couldn't meet them. And I also think that people didn't fully understand the story. Like they probably just thought we left because we just wanted to, but then we made a video about like everything and what happened.

41:01And then I think everybody kind of understood more but yeah it was just not a very I've obviously gotten a lot of hate right I mean like I work with my daughter so you're just set up for oh you're a bad guy you work with your kid you're keeping all the money you're exploiting her that happens all the time a lot of comments about my age about the fact that I'm cringe like all that none of them matters but reading the seeing the TikToks that these kids were upset that like that really hurts because like I value that relationship with them more than anything on the channel other than my relationship with her so the fact that we let them down in a way felt like we let her down I felt emotionally as if I had let her down and that was really rough so that part I felt horrible about if you watch the video you'll see we both felt terrible the whole time so if we ever do it again it'll be different is there a part of you as a parent who doesn't want Salish to see these comments?

42:02These are hard to internalize, even as an adult. Does any part of you want to be like, let's shut this whole YouTube channel down. This is getting too out of hand. I would shut the channel down a second if I thought it was the better choice for her. But I think, and tell me what your reaction would be, if we did that, I think it would be really upsetting. Yeah, definitely. It's interesting to hear about, there's comments about you, Salish, but there's all the comments about you, Jordan, that you mentioned. Can I read one of them? Sure. I bet there's a bunch. Do you watch the videos that are made about you?

42:38The commentary videos? Yeah, I don't watch them. There's a lot that's said out there. I think any YouTuber that gets popular. And I thought it was interesting. You mentioned these comments don't get to you or the ones that you see. It would be hard for me to stomach some of this stuff. This is a quote from a YouTube video about you where they said, Jordan Madder might not be the first to monetize his children for content, but he represents a worrying trend, one that treats childhood as a commodity and where privacy is sacrificed for the sake of YouTube money. What do you say to people who make those comments?

43:11I see their point. Like, if you're looking at it from a distance and you don't know any of the specifics, you know, yeah, sure, there is a trade-off, as a matter of fact. I would say anybody that sits here and works with their kid and says, it's great, you don't really, I don't know that. I'm only trying to do everything I can to make sure that we give it the best chance of it having been a positive impact on her life. But you don't know for sure if her age right now and as she's evolving into a young woman and her self-perception and what she values, if all of that is under a microscope every day and whatever you do, she goes out with somebody and ends up on TikTok.

43:54I don't necessarily think that that's great. So there is an aspect of it that is always like we have to manage that and it has a lot to do with who she is. She specifically somehow is a very rare person that is able to absorb this at her age. And I'm not saying like it's true. What she's saying is true. She just doesn't care. And she doesn't care about being famous, right? I mean, like we don't even use that word. She's not really famous. like Taylor Swift is famous. She is very recognizable to a certain demographic of people. And those people feel very invested in her life. And we're very fortunate that they care.

44:34But at the same time, those people don't know the situation. So they have no idea what our relationship is. But there is an aspect of it that you have to be very aware of when you're raising kids in a public environment. Yeah. I mean, yeah, productions are chaotic environments, let alone with a father and daughter dynamic. You have the father-daughter dynamic. you have the fact that we're trying to make a 30 minute video in one day and we're doing it every week so the creative process is always rushed so we film on sunday saturday midnight we're still working through the creative as you saw we show up we're making stuff up one thing goes wrong this build is taking too long it's dominoing everything we're like hurry up hurry up there's no chance we're going to finish this video hold on to the trucks hold on to the builds hold on everything leave it somewhere close here i mean i don't really know what else to do we just should not stop filming either we're filming her doing stuff in there the whole time or we're doing you know or we're going to the mall or something because you're just not going to have minutes of her i don't think given the fact that we got so delayed with the build big smile salish ready guys please go daily go today was a today was a super stressful video yeah it was crazy today but i kept you away from that because i'm a good dad yeah so i didn't want you to feel that pressure oh thank you okay so i guess we'll end it on that note that was an unusually frustrating video yeah um but i was still frustrated at times um and i try to separate that out if i'm if i'm frustrated by something try to talk respectfully to the person and not involve salish because i'm absolutely never frustrated with her her her energy and her commitment is like unbelievable and i think she often lifts everybody's up.

46:18I remember one time, I'm telling all these stories about myself that don't sound good, but it's the truth, and everybody goes through it. I was having a... Do you remember the thing with me and Sandy? Do you want to tell it? I don't remember the exact words, and you probably remember better. I was... The production partner, Sandy Chase, he and I started the channel together. We have been doing this the whole time, way before Salish, and we can definitely have a very... open relationship with each other. Also, it's because you guys are very close. We're very close. We have a shorthand on things.

46:54And if I'm snippy, it's almost always to him. Sorry, Sandy. But there was one time I stepped over the line and I said something. We were in the room and, you know, she was older now. But I said something out of line like, no, I'm telling you this needs to happen now. It was like something like that, which is way out of line and salish who before would have shut down when she was younger or got upset or something because she would she just pulled me off side she said that whatever's going with you going on with you you got to get it together so why don't you get out of here and figure it out and then come back when you're ready to film it's like wow she like put me in my place this was a couple years ago right this was you're about 13 then so she had transitioned in that year from really internalizing it and thinking it's about her to recognizing, no, this is your thing and your thing, that's very inappropriate way to discuss, to talk about this.

47:56So go get it together. And so I came back, I apologized to him. I was super upset with myself and we moved on. And after that, my dad hasn't really done anything like that. That was on a very rare occasion. Like that doesn't happen every day. And most of the time my dad's very nice because I learned some of my manners mainly from my dad. And mom. His mom is the nicest human in life. She would never speak to anybody like that. So again, Sandy, I'm sorry. Yeah. What other creative differences or what have been some of the biggest disagreements you guys have had? Because I think naturally between a father and daughter that happens.

48:33You guys working together must put that into overdrive. We haven't had too many big disagreements. And I think part of that is because Rowan, he's the creative director now. And I've known him since I was born. And he kind of helps me through the video so that it's not my dad directing me and helping me through that. And I think that that's made a huge difference in the creative process. Because now I have somebody that's like my brother helping me instead of my dad. Yeah, I thought that was really interesting when I was behind the scenes with you guys. Like, you went off to shoot your bit and your segment.

49:06It was almost this competition between you two. And then you went with Rowan, who was almost like your director and the person who you were making your content with. So you guys were actually, for a lot of the shoot, in separate places. Yeah, and part of that is a YouTube calculation. We have one day to film. So often, if we're filming one thing together, we get half the content. So a lot of what we do is come up with dual storyline concepts where I'm doing one thing while she's doing another. It's fun storytelling, but it also makes the videos longer, which is prioritized by YouTube. And the retention gets higher because you're cutting back and forth between two different scenes versus playing one long scene.

49:44Sorry, just a little bit of YouTube stuff there. But in terms of the Rowan thing, that's been critical. And I've just turned more and more responsibility for her storyline over to him. And also Del, the production manager, she's going back and forth between us, but she's the primary female on set. So she is often with Say, and they're very tight too. so she has these two people plus Colin who's filming she usually has this trifecta of young adults who are much closer to her age much more interested in the stuff she's interested in you know like they're all dating for example I can't really relate to all that stuff as Salish is becoming a young woman that connection between her and them is super important do you guys feel pressure to shoot more days because like condensing a YouTube video into one day Yeah, like that's a lot and even when I was on set I saw how much went into that one day to film that video Like do you ever feel pressure to be like hey Salish we need more time on camera with you?

50:45No, he never asks me really to have more time like another day to film or anything I think I can for the most part understand like oh we need another day to film this because we have not gotten everything so sometimes we do like a little bit more but not really he never asks me to do another day because he understands that I just want to live my life and be a normal teenager it's a deal it's an agreement we made so I take it really seriously and and and that's where sometimes if I do get frustrated it's usually towards the last third of the day because things are slow and I'm and the thing that gets me is is always her like she's got to get to sleep she's got homework we need to wrap this up and if it if we don't wrap it up quickly then she's going to get a headache she's going to get tired she's not going to get dinner she's not going to get enough sleep and so i start worrying about her if i see her this is also why it's not bad for me to be over there yeah because sometimes a lot of the well you know go ahead a lot of the times like my dad's not with us and i might be sitting out for like five minutes taking a break getting water and my dad comes over and he's like why is she not doing anything like i want her to be able to go home why is she just sitting and that's like exactly when you come like whenever he comes it will be like i'm just sitting down and i don't sit down for most of the day no you don't it's not it's not so much you're sitting down it's just like i'm waiting until we can start filming the bigger thing is the expression i see if i come in and you guys are sitting there and you're going but i have no like I will never have a problem with that like sit there for an hour is totally great because you're you're having a good time but if you look tired or if you look like you have a headache or you tell me that you're hungry or something it triggers me because I feel so protective of her time and her space and I don't want her to ever feel like YouTube is a job or anything she doesn't want to do that then is when I go okay we got to get this done right now and then that tone then it spirals because then she sees that I'm frustrated and it kicks up something from when she was younger and then all of a sudden she's like dad it's fine and then there's a little bit of tension and it's all because I saw that she wasn't happy and I feel bad as if she's almost as if I'm making her do something that doesn't make her happy and I overreact to that moment so that's what more and more now especially towards the end when she might be getting tired I say Rowan please wrap this up as soon as possible because we need to go, but I'm going to be over here so there's no extra tension about that.

53:19And then you could also continue shooting your storyline. It's almost the way you set up the format of the episodes, give you more time if Salish can't shoot as much. Right. If we do a video, for example, where we're doing two different locations or something, I might be able to go back to that location another time. But usually we wrap together so I can bring it home. Got it. Another moment from that shoot that has just stuck in my heart. Uh-oh. like, can I play this? Oh, no. Dad, can you not start crying if you watch this? I'm not going to cry watching myself cry. Actually. I promise. I'm not kidding.

53:57I couldn't believe just how emotional this moment was on set and seeing you start crying, Jordan, and talking about what you did. I'm just wondering if you could play the clip and maybe elaborate on some of that. Every week I'm making a memory with my daughter. And the fact is, is I know there's more memories in the past than there are in the future with this content. Okay. Wow. Wow. Sorry. That's beautiful, Jordan. No, it's just like, it's so special. She can't see me do this because it's like too emotional for her, but what I get to do is I get to be with her every week, creating something that resonates with people.

54:38and it's like we get to bond and it's like there's so many memories. Like if you look back, it started when she was 10 or 8 or something. It's like the memories there, I will look back and forever, my only fear is that she looked later and say that she didn't enjoy that.

54:57That's why everything is built to make sure that she does. Okay, I'm crying. Don't look. No, it's good. You weren't supposed to be here. Why are you crying? Just because I started, okay, the truth is I started talking about what it would be like when we did our last video. Rowan, he's crying. He said he started talking about what it's gonna be like on our last video. I got busted. I cannot believe she just caught me. Like, I did not see her. I saw your eyes, I was like, what's he looking at? What's he looking at? And then suddenly, there's nothing more cringe for a teen than seeing their parent cry about them.

55:32Seeing your dad get emotional doesn't get you choked up? No. That's so weird. I don't like when he cries. Daddy's getting me choked up. I think it's going to be sad when we film our last video, but I won't cry thinking about it. I mean, I think he's just being a little weird. Okay. Okay. Okay. Dad, you promised! No, that thing about you regretting it, that's really always been my driving thing. I thought her reaction was funny. You're not having it. What teen would be? Yeah. That's rough. I mean, look, let's give Salish an insane amount of credit because every week I get on camera and I do stuff that is embarrassingly cringe, even if I'm trying to be the coolest person possible.

56:25she's a 15 year old who every week does a video with her dad and her dad is not chill it's like i'm not a cool chill guy i'm over the top guy that's embarrassing and the fact that she's willing to put that out there to so many people every week says that we do have a bond and that she and also says she's confident enough in herself to allow that person to uh to exist in her hemisphere and be proud of him still stuff like that however she will not tolerate as easily so that kind of thing never happens in our videos salish do you ever just want to spend time with your dad like not making youtube videos yeah of course and what does that look like because like seeing that you know i i have a daughter and i think about when she gets older she's going to have so many other commitments you know whatever extracurricular she does her friends um and you only have so many years with them at home.

57:18Like yeah, how do you think about this built-in day where you make YouTube videos together? Do you wish you guys were doing something off camera? Do you like that it exists? Like what's your take on that? I think like we don't only hang out when we film Sundays. It definitely has brought us a lot closer because like when we lived in New York and he wasn't filming with me, like I didn't really get to see him too much because he was always working, which wasn't a bad thing. I've gotten so close to him now, so I'm so lucky that we can do YouTube videos every Sunday. And I think that, like, I don't have to build in time to hang out with him.

57:54It kind of just happens inevitably. Like, he just, like, takes me to Target or, like, we just do random things. And even though I'm, I'm, like, pretty busy and I kind of always have something going on I always like allow my dad into that and let him come with me for whatever is there anything that's off limits like in terms of filming and I think that a couple of my relationships I've kept it's kind of private like my school friends or like my sports friends like I don't put them on the internet because I think that just kind of make us uncomfortable and yeah how do you think about that like as sales you grow older like there's more things that are private and there's pressure with the algorithm and youtube to make it public and a lot of people i don't feel any pressure about yeah tell me how about how you wrestle with that as long as she is enjoying making the videos i don't care what we're making them about she can set any parameters she wants and i'll work within them she could say i want to do all white room videos and i just want you to direct or i want you to be over there watching and i would be totally happy with that as long as we get to spend the time together and she's having fun you know like we a few months ago it might have been longer than that but you know we went for a drive to Fresno it's a five hour drive right and she's a teen girl never picked up her phone you know we just yapped for five straight hours it was awesome to have the kind of relationship where we can get in a car and we're like there was a time recently where, I don't know if you remember this, these people that watch our videos saw us at Target and they were behind us and we were pushing the car and they came up and they said, oh my god, you're just like you are in the videos.

59:43And to me, that is the biggest compliment because we don't really put on anything. I think we probably I add maybe 20 % energy, you might add like 30 or 40 % more energy, but it's the same relationship. It's just amplified a bit because it's entertainment, but it's the same core of who we are. Yeah. Do you guys have an exit plan? Like, you know, do you think you'll ever call it quits? Or what happens if one day you're like, Dad, I don't want to make YouTube videos anymore? I don't think I'm really ever going to unless like I go to like like I really I think I want to go to college and I don't know how I'm going to still be making YouTube videos then I really obviously want to and that's a huge part of like what I'm thinking about like what I've been thinking about recently because I love filming so much but I don't think I would ever randomly just be like hey like I don't want to do YouTube videos anymore because yeah I don't know but but it might get harder.

1:00:39I mean, if you go to college somewhere like away from where you live, like logistically. Well, I'm going to be in the dorm next door. That's obvious. No, one of one of we have talked about an exit strategy. And this is something that I would say I've only recently become comfortable saying that I think she's in this for a bit, as opposed to I've always felt up until this point that it's at any point she might say, you know, I want to try other things. But we do have an exit strategy and and i think part of the exit strategy is the fact that i also think we can't just stop suddenly because of the audience that would be i mean when you hear the reception at the mall they're invested and we really really um we respect that and we definitely uh feel grateful for it so if we were to do that we'd almost have to let them ease out of it as much as we'd need to eaves of it.

1:01:35So we've talked about like a long, and like, hey, in January, at the end of this year, we're going to maybe stop doing YouTube for this reason. And then, so then they know, okay, there's six more months. It's almost like a farewell tour. A farewell tour on YouTube. If you decide to call it quits. Exactly. I mean, there's always a, you know, it's going to call quits at some point. That's what I was saying. I think, I don't think there's going to be another five years of it because she's going to be going to college. maybe it's up to her in a few years. So at some point, it's either the channel is just going to start doing this and then every creator has to make that decision.

1:02:12Do we just keep going and going even though nobody's interested anymore? And I think if we're having fun, why not? Or she might decide she doesn't want to do it, in which case we have to strategize about that. Have you come close to thinking that? No. I think that if I... I don't know. I've also been thinking about college a lot recently because, I mean, next year I'm going to have to start really thinking about what college I want to go to and all of that stuff. And up until this point, I've really wanted to go to college, and I still really do. But I've been thinking about maybe just a little bit because I love filming so much that I don't want it to just end just because I have to go to college.

1:02:56And, yeah. and I think that when she said first of all that makes me so happy you have no idea but when she says that I think that's primarily because of the environment of the shoot and we are also very aware that we are in an incredible moment we talk about it all the time like we have built somehow one of the very top channels on the platform and this doesn't happen and it probably when we go like this it won't happen again so we should really enjoy where we're at right now ironically we're never seen as one of the top channels every you go you're invited to every single youtube event how often do you see me there it's not because i'm turning them down it's because i'm not invited never invited and the reason i'm not invited is because i'm working with my daughter and so it's it's about the perception of that and what that represents because of all the negativity surrounding it even though what we're doing is very algorithm youtube driven it's very you know friendly advertiser friendly content it's very popular but it doesn't fit in the demo of how YouTube represents itself so other YouTubers don't really think of us as so I think that event was the first time the Sephora American Dreamer the first time where people were like wait that doubled Mr.

1:04:25Beast? who are you? who is she? the articles are like I don't even know who this person is and she filled MetLife Stadium she got 87 ,000 people there and I have no clue who she is and so it didn't just help our brand it also just brought focus and attention to not just YouTubers but specifically to the family genre and the deep connection that people feel to family creators. Do you feel disrespected by other YouTubers because you guys are a family channel? I don't feel disrespected I feel ignored and I don't even have a problem with it I get it I get it you know I do but why? why just because i think people look at say and they're like yeah of course she's funny you know and it's only kids that are watching it oh yeah yeah they're all under 10 so that's easy but me i i do serious content that 15 year olds want right it's not true none of it's true i mean adults watch our content teens watch our content kids like everybody watches it it's just the perception and we don't pay attention to perception so instead we pay attention to the audience and so we build the audience but we haven't built the relationship with the creator community in the way that they would give back what has been the craziest thing that's happened since that american dream mall 87 000 people like massive crowd like has there been people reaching out that you would have never expected have there been deals like that was a moment yeah that was a moment yeah Like, what's been the most exciting thing that has happened other than your product selling out in Sephora, which was, you know, was the big point of the event.

1:06:10But any other, like, deals or inbound, like, oh, my God, I can't believe that person's reaching out. I mean, definitely a lot of them. I don't know. Can I say any? Like, there have been so many things that have come up recently, which is crazy. I think it's a tough moment to say it, right? because there's a lot of opportunities that are coming in for her and for the channel and to know which ones we're going to go with. But a lot of stuff. I'll say that we had some meetings scheduled with Netflix and Disney and others in terms of shows. I can't say what, but that. And they were already scheduled.

1:06:45But after the event, the people that attended those meetings were the decision makers. And decisions were made very quickly in our favor. but within minutes after the meetings, offers were made. And that doesn't happen. And I think a lot of it has to do with the perception that it's hard to argue anymore that she and we have made an impact on a lot of people. And now people are trying to monetize that. And we are not interested in that, or at least she isn't. So there's a lot of huge offers that you would have never imagined would be a reality and that we're not gonna do it. Wow. Has there been anything you've been chasing to get that has now come in your lap because of this American Dream Mall 87 ,000 people crowd?

1:07:34Well, your singing career. Your singing career? I'll pay that. No, I don't have a singing career. Wait, what's that about? Can you guys cue one of her... No, sorry. Cue one of her songs. Okay. What, labels are reaching out to turn you into an artist? Yes, actually yes. No. But do you sing Salish? No, I don't. But they don't care. because you have a massive audience. Yes. So they're like, She's already gotten an offer with a major recording label to just put out some songs. They're like, we'll make it sound good and then we can teach her how to sing for a tour. She's like, and she said, quote, I can't think of the name I want to do less than that.

1:08:15So that's, so what you have there is a label saying, hey, we want to turn you into the next Sabrina Carpenter or whatever. And her going, nah.

1:08:26yep that's that's right is any of that appealing though like i imagine a lot of kids your age talk about sabrina carpenter being the next big pop star like like just to know that that could be a reality that you live in yeah i think that that's like so cool that they want me to do that and i've never had any background with singing but i think just singing is something that I really would not want to do or pursue. So, yeah. It is interesting commentary on the industry that it's like, is audience more important than talent? I don't even think there's a question. Yeah. Like, not to comment, because you said it yourself, like, singing is not one of your many talents, but that because of your massive audience, they're willing to make an exception.

1:09:09Yeah. Yeah. The way I see all this is our foundation and our priority is making videos. I don't see where anything could get better than that I love that she has opportunities if she chooses to pursue them she wants to be an actor or singer or whatever I think the door will be open for a while but we get to make our own rules we get more views than most shows we have an audience built in and we get to do it the way we want to do it with no pressure there isn't a lot that anybody can offer us other than that as long as we stay true to that and still make videos that the audience enjoys and that touches them We try to make videos that resonate, that have a message, that parents can appreciate what we're saying so that it's not just pure popcorn entertainment.

1:09:56And what I see for her is in a way somewhat similar to what my son is doing. So my son Hudson has worked on our channel, also created his own YouTube channel. It was really successful. And then he has now branched out to create a company called Next Wave Media, which is a consulting company. And it consults brands and celebrities on being YouTubers. I think that's brilliant. Rather than chasing the Jimmy route of like, I want to be a bigger and bigger creator because he saw there's a shelf life and he saw there's no exit to that. If you're not in the video, you're not making money. And so he's taking that opportunity and he's building it into a business.

1:10:36And I think that Salish is also doing that with Sincerely Yours and will have other opportunities to do it as well where she has a platform and then she can say, okay, I've started a company and I have a platform. I can do this, this, or this now. And she can kind of call the shots and he can call the shots. That's what's great about YouTube and social media now is once you find success, you have endless opportunities to create your own thing. Yeah. Yeah. I did want to talk about Hudson, like your brother, because he is like so smart at YouTube. Like he is very sharp. And I wanted to ask like Salish, Is there any jealousy between you and your brother Hudson with you being the star of the channel and him having a separate channel?

1:11:21No, not really because Hudson has created so many incredible things that I couldn't create. And I've created some things that he doesn't want to create. And I think that we do very different things even though we're in the same kind of space. Like he just created a business about YouTube, but I don't know if I could create that cool of a business. So I think we both definitely have different things that we're good at. Yeah, your content is totally different. Yeah, definitely. Was there a moment, Jordan, where you ever considered making Hudson a bigger part of the channel? Because there was a few videos that I pulled up here of when Hudson was on your channel, and they actually performed really well.

1:12:01And I'm wondering, like, how did, like, and Salish was in videos later. How did you, like, end up with Salish being part of your channel versus Hudson having a separate channel? Right. Despite his videos doing really well on your channel. Well, the question of whether or not I considered it almost suggests, like, a calculation that there wasn't. so it wasn't like I said I need to pivot away from photography and which one of my kids am I going to make into the channel face of the channel that wasn't it it was that at the time that she and I started working together Hudson was not interested in YouTube he was interested in politics if you look back Hudson mattered politics so many videos he was wearing his suits he was doing politics videos He was a political commentator.

1:12:55He was a volunteer, a political volunteer, when he was Salish's age and canvassing. He ran a whole group. He was in charge of, it was Michael Bloomberg in New York, and he was in charge of the whole Bloomberg campaign for a certain region. So that was his interest. So when she and I were working together, he had no interest in being in the channel at all. And you'll see he's not really in it at that time. Since that, he made his own channel, but he wants to do his own thing. And I think part of the way he sees all of this is, okay, you guys have done your thing. I don't want you, dad, to help me.

1:13:30I want to know that I did this on my own. And he's able to do it on his own in a way that when he is able to reach the success he wants, he will know he did that without any help from me. None. He will not accept it. He will not accept any financing. He will not accept any advice or any connections or anything. So he really feels strong about doing it on his own. I respect that. If Salish is a star of the YouTube channel, why is the channel called Jordan Matter? Great question. People have asked me that a lot. What do you think? Well, I mean, I think that, like, I have made, like, the joke, like, oh, it's my YouTube channel, but it obviously is my dad's.

1:14:13Even as much as I work, like, on Sundays, I think that my dad should always get a lot of the credit because he is the one doing so much of the work. So, I mean, I think that's a big part of why it's still called Jordan Matter. And it's just more recognizable for people. Like, it's been Jordan Matter for, like, 10 years. So why would I change it to Salish Matter? Why would my dad change it? It just doesn't make sense. Has there been discussion to change it to Jordan and Salish Matter? That way you kind of maintain existing brand and what the brand has become? I think it's a funny bit to keep going on with because people get so worked up about it.

1:14:49Like, it's her channel. And we kind of fuel that because I think there's a lot of fun stuff where what we argue about, I also argue with the audience about. So I'm like, it's not her channel. It's got my name on it. And then everybody's like, no, it's her channel. No, it's her channel. And so then it sparks this Team Jordan versus Team Salish thing, which I think the audience absolutely loves. And we love it, too, because we're very competitive as individuals and with each other. So then when we are also putting out that it's her channel, it's my channel. It's just another aspect of competition.

1:15:21Yeah, I saw that firsthand on set when we were shooting together. The competitive part? Oh, yeah. Yeah, you guys were going at it. I was like, wait, this is real. Yeah. I also want to break it down because you guys are getting 75 million views in a week, 300 million views in a month. And I think there's a ton of things that non-family or kid channels can learn from you guys about YouTube. I'm wondering if you could break down some of your past videos. We analyzed your different formats. like any YouTube strategy tips that you guys have that you talk about because I think you've mastered that in a way that a lot of people don't give you credit for one of the things that I think we do really well and most channels don't do this is the variety of content we make so usually if you think of your favorite YouTuber you're going to immediately know the video they're going to post next week you just know it, you don't know the exact title but you know what it's going to look like and we avoid that as much as possible.

1:16:17So for us, one time will be a vlog about what the American Dream Mall was like and then the next week it's a game of Clue which is completely opposite and then there's a vlog about her morning routine and then she builds a secret room and there's all these different, we're incorporating all of it. And I think, so my feeling is each video should be a surprise to the audience and don't worry about the fact that it may or may not get views. Remember one time, Salish, the first suggestion for a video she ever made at what were you 10 for morning and she said we should do a morning routine i said oh say that's so 2017 like nobody does anymore i said okay we'll do it because you suggest it and you want to do it and so for sure but i just don't want you to think it's going to do well it ended up being a one out of ten and it got 30 million views and what that taught what then that opened up the floodgates all kinds of night routine day in the life video content that we wouldn't have done if we hadn't rolled the dice because that wasn't anything like what we were doing before that.

1:17:13And sometimes you got to take a chance and try something different because it might light a spark. What other tips are like, like when it comes to clipping or, you know, your videos, like I was on set for the production, it was just very methodical, like anything that sales you've learned or Jordan, you've learned from your experience that you think other creators could apply to their videos? Clipping, we found that the audience likes to clip our content a lot. So now we are aware that there might be certain kinds of content they'd like to clip more. So we try to incorporate clippable moments into every video so that they have some fun stuff to clip.

1:17:48And so Salish had a huge presence on TikTok having no TikTok account. Oh, you don't have a TikTok account whatsoever. No, I do, but I didn't. Yeah, it was recent. She kept getting banned, TikTok. So she just couldn't do TikTok, which was like, okay, that's fine. But if you looked up Salish on TikTok, there were literally thousands of accounts, but none of them were her. Like imposter accounts. Or fan accounts or whatever. People that were celebrating the content is the way we see it. And they were reposting it. And then not just sales accounts, but just kind of anybody was. So we realized, for example, some of these videos, the trapped video, you're trapped in a tiny room.

1:18:27Boys and girls trapped in a tiny room. Went insanely viral on TikTok due to a lie detector test at the end. And our number one traffic source was search. above browse above suggested it was search and it was a massive one out of ten usually if you have search traffic it means nobody can find the video and it's a it's a dud it was because so much traffic was coming from tiktok due to all the clips right so finding what your audience likes and then creating clippable content for them to repurpose without you having to do it is really great was there an example in the sephora shoot that i went behind the scenes of that you guys were like oh this is a moment that we're gonna make for a clip we haven't posted we're as of filming.

1:19:07We haven't posted that yet. Oh, you don't show the final edits to Salish? She won't look at them. Why? I don't like watching myself. You don't? Will you watch the final episode once it's on YouTube? No. She only sees it if it's on TikTok. I see it on TikTok and sometimes I'm like, wait, why did you put that in? Because sometimes I say something like that I wouldn't expect them to keep in and then they keep in and I'm like, oh. You know the classic example of that? Do you remember that with Nadal? Do you want to quit right now because you're too scared and take the money Yeah, but it wouldn't be a long enough video, so no.

1:19:40And I wouldn't expect them to keep that in. Like it's full on, like, it needs to be 30 minutes for the algorithm, dad. I know you only have like a 20 minute video, so we got to shoot this scene. And we left it in. Wow. Yeah. And then another, you know, another thing is authenticity is huge, right? So here's a great example of authenticity. We have this thing called the Matter Cup. It's a competition. It's a trophy. Yeah. and I had a feeling she would think it was cringe, so I didn't tell her we were going to do it, and what happened was I had it behind my back, and I said, this week, we're going to play for the Matter Cup, and I revealed it, and she had this reaction like, no.

1:20:16Wait, what? No, that is so cringe, and we left that in, and the thing is, if you think about YouTube, and you think of a family, you think about kids, what you'd expect is for the kids to go, yeah, Matter Cup, I'm going to win, yeah, But that is so inauthentic to her or to her age group that if she had done that, people would be like, oh, really? You care about that and you're a teen? So instead we left in the authentic reaction of her going, that's cringe. Now it's become a big thing. Everybody comes up to me and they're like, Matter Cup is cringe and I'm Team Salish. And then they run away. And it has made her more authentic just because that's who she is and we've kept that part of her in.

1:20:56Yeah, even though it's a big trophy and a big prize. really, but a 15-year-old care. It's like the kind of thing the dad cares about that the kid doesn't, so we just made it super authentic. And then the last thing I'll say, because we haven't talked a lot about actual, I mean, we are not reliant on her being charming to get views. We're reliant on understanding the audience's expectations and the algorithm, and that's what leads to the retention. So what we found is that, the way I would say it is this, I've talked to a bunch of creators about this. Here's my formula. 80 % of the success of a video is the packaging.

1:21:30It's the concept, right? It is the thumbnail and title, 80%. Because if they don't click it, they're not going to watch it. 20 % is the actual execution. Of that 20%, 80 % of that is the retention device. So really, the way I say it often is by the time we show up on set, we've already made, the video's already successful or not based on what we chose to film. The rest of it is just window dressing. But if you're going to focus on something, focus on giving people a reason why they need to watch to the end the first 30 seconds and then make sure you get the length out so you get the avd the apv above 50 but the avd at least i'd say at least 10 minutes probably more like 15 minutes um you've been the king of pivots in many ways like before salish came on the channel you're doing the 10 minute challenges before then you're doing headshots um like what advice do you have for youtubers who are a bit older maybe stuck in their jobs or stuck in you know a rut like content wise to find their thing in the way that you have like so much later in life so you call me old that's how i'm like he was so that that was he was like basically trying to say you're old how are you so old and you're still doing this you must have pivoted like a thousand times right yeah it's a compliment john said at least this three times you know if i had blank at your age i'll be really happy oh yeah your age if i can still sit up jordan's hair oh my god you'll have it no no i'm honestly it's oh yeah so i would say in terms of all the old people out there the plus well i'm i'm like what i think i'm almost 30 so like the you know the 30 plus sorry sorry i don't know why did somebody replay that reaction anybody get a close-up of that no okay yeah you got your camera anyway uh i would the the idea of pivoting is i i learned from hudson to tell you a brief story when he was 10 and i was just starting youtube and he gave me this advice.

1:23:19He said, if you're lucky enough to get successful on YouTube, it's because you found a lane. But if you leave that lane, people are going to stop watching because that's not why they're there. But if you stay in the lane too long, they're going to get bored and they stop watching. So what you have to do is expand the lane while staying in it. It's like, first of all, pretty great advice from a 10 year old. So he always knew YouTube. And then second of all, just great advice. So what we did is the lane was photography. And then eventually it was photographing Salish. And then also it was like 10 minute challenges, then photographing celebrities, then photographing Salish, then no photographing.

1:23:55So it was pivoting, but not like I didn't go to cooking. I stayed within the lane and then it just kind of went this way slowly. And before you know, same highway, same highway, different lane. And then how did you ultimately like, do you feel like you have to choose a lane that's close enough to what you did before, before you go from photography challenges to father daughter content? Yes, if you can. It's not always easy. But yeah, if you can. And then we continue to pivot. Like she is 15, you're going to be 16. That's a lot different content from when it's 10. But one thing has stayed consistent, two things.

1:24:29One is that it's always been about relationships more than about challenges, even though it's a challenge-based channel. And number two, collaborations. Still. And most of the collaborations, it's not like they're not on the thumbnails. but even though you don't see her and hardly anybody but her in any of these most all of them had a collaborator so we like to always work with different people it keeps it fresh but also you get into their algorithm so if you're in a rut start trying to work with different people because you get different influences you get to understand their process and you all share each other's algorithm I'm curious just to wrap what's been the biggest thing you guys have learned from each other I know as a dad now, I'm learning more and more from my daughter, and she's only two.

1:25:17I'm wondering, Jordan, what's something you've learned from Salish? And Salish, what's something you've learned from Jordan? I mean, okay, so I've learned a lot from Salish. So what I would say, the first thing that came to mind is not necessarily the biggest thing I've learned, but the first thing that came to mind, odds coming from an adult learning this from a kid, but don't be so concerned about what other people think. is at the core of, I think, why it's so enjoyable to work with her and to watch her on camera, on screen. What about you, Salish? I think I've learned so much from my dad, but I think the top thing is hard work and dedication because, I mean, we haven't really missed a video in a while, and it's like he has so much drive every week, Even if he hasn't thought of a video idea, even if it's two days before, he still works hard so that we can film on Sunday.

1:26:14And why? You guys are set. Why? Why work at this? Why, you know, you guys could be spending time and making those memories that are so important off-camera. Why work so hard at this? It's not work. I mean, there's... You worked your ass off. Monday through Saturday, I'm working my butt off. Sunday is a vacation day. Sunday, I get to hang out with her and film. so if we didn't film on Sundays there could be a lot of Sundays where she makes plans with her friends or something I think I think the fact that we film actually keeps us closer together it's not the opposite it's not like we would dedicate the whole Sunday and go for a walk and talk about our feelings on the beach we would be doing our own thing maybe so I first of all I see Sundays as as critical because it's another memory I get to build and like I said earlier I only have so many of them so that's the number one thing that drives me is I just realize this is a very unique moment and very special and i want to take advantage of it every week i'll give you guys a final word like where do things go from here like any big swings for the future like i know you guys have done such a great job of pivoting before you've had to with your content i'm just curious like what do the next like few years hold for salish and jordan matter i'd say for me as weird as this sounds i don't know you would think that we would be fully super calculated like you know you meet Jimmy and he's like oh we're going to do this and then three years this and we got five year this and ten year this and for me I've always built it into I want her to have an exit ramp anytime she wants it so it's very hard to build long term plans if I'm also saying I don't want you to feel pressure to have to do this if you don't enjoy it so we're really going to push hard on Sincerely Yours I think and that feels really exciting, the reception has been incredible I think it's a real give back to our community and it could be super popular product so that's probably where we're going to focus and other than that, just making the best video we can every week.

1:28:08And Sage, any thoughts from you to close it out? I think the same thing as him. I also, yeah, I think the same thing as him. She just wants to end by saying how grateful she is, how much she loves me and she wants to give me a big hug right now to end it. Okay, now. The hugging thing is like something that just goes away at a certain point, parents out there, just so you know it happens. Don't tell me that, don't tell me that. Here we go, one more, okay. Keep that head small. Raise a kid. Okay, we'll just do the hug. Yeah. Oh, whoa. Wait, get this on camera. Did you see that? She almost did a hug.

1:28:39Did you see the hand halfway hug? I got a halfway hug. Hi, Dad. Yeah, it won't happen for you for a while, but I saw, oh my gosh, I saw an Instagram of all of these clips of you giving me a hug when you were so young and just falling asleep in my arms and everything. How do they have those clips? Well, not clips, like photos that I've posted wherever. you know so and then it doesn't happen anymore but it gets better it actually gets better I would not trade 8 year old or 6 year old Salish for 15 year old Salish 15 year old Salish is my favorite Salish 19 year old Hudson is my favorite Hudson it just gets better every year I mean as a parent that's amazing to hear I just appreciate you guys for being so open and honest and Salish you making this one of your first podcasts talking about all this stuff I know it's not easy but I'm so grateful and Jordan thanks for coming on the show again and being such a just a mentor and support in so many things I've been trying to do.

1:29:32It means a lot. You're welcome. It's weird being your mentor as I'm younger than you, but I guess that, you know, that happens. I've achieved a lot at a young age. Imagine where I'm going to go when I'm 30 and 40. It's going to be crazy. If you haven't already, go to ythackpack.com to get our free YouTube hackpack with all our best tools, tips, and templates to grow on YouTube today. From our intro and thumbnail templates to our 100 viral ideas for any niche, we constantly update it as we interview more creators so you get the latest and greatest for free. All right. Thanks for watching.