#514 Why the Best Networkers Don’t “Network” (And What They Do Instead) with Scott MacGregor, Founder of the Outlier Project

0:28I don't build a network. down our goals, overcome adversity, and set you up for a better tomorrow. I'm ready for my close-up. Hi, and welcome back. I'm so glad you're back here with me this week. Okay, today you get to meet one of my dearest friends, but more important than him being an incredible human and one of my dearest friends, he is the master of networking, connections, relationships, building community. You are going to learn so much from this man. Scott McGregor is a powerhouse. And I need to read some of the key points from his bio because it's just going to blow you away. He's a founder of the Outlier Project, founder of Outlier Magazine.

1:07I can't wait to get into all this. Founder and CEO of Something New, four-time author of the Standing O series. I'm so excited about all these different points. He's won so many different awards. It's unbelievable in the staffing industry. Any type of score on his business is always 99.99%. I mean, the guy is winning on all levels. He's a winner of the sales executive of the year. Founder magazine, 100 top founders. Contributor to Forbes magazine. It just goes on and on. Advisory Council, Harvard Business Review. He's a past chairman of the board to elevate. I mean, literally, the guy doesn't sleep.

1:43All he does is help others and build incredible businesses and build incredible relationships. And he's going to teach you how to do that today. Scott, thank you so much for being here. Heather, I could not be more excited for this. I've been looking forward to it all day. You know, I absolutely love you to pieces and I hold you in the absolute highest regard. You are one of the best podcasters on the planet. Oh my gosh, thank you so much. That means so much. Knowing the network of podcasters that you have that you're close to, that means a lot coming from you. All right, so let's go backwards first before we move forward.

2:20words. Let's tell them a little bit about your backstory and your come up. Yeah. You know, I grew up relatively poor in an affluent town. So I stuck out like a sore thumb because economically, you know, we were very, very different from everybody else. So, you know, as a kid, I was just trying to figure out the world and the world when you're a kid is the town you live in. Like it really doesn't extend much beyond that. And, and I was just trying to figure out why were my experiences so different from my peers. And so that's, I think, really spawned kind of a lifelong curiosity. So I thought it was because of my circumstances, but I'm 57 now.

3:07And I will tell you, I'm as curious at 57 as I was when I was seven. So, you know, part of my journey has just been that trying to satiate that curiosity. And I recognized early on in life that I was an outlier. I didn't call it that, but I knew very early on as a kid, I knew I thought differently about things than my peers. But when you're a kid and you think differently about stuff, Heather, you just think you're weird. Like I wasn't celebrating it. I'm like, there's something wrong with me because I do not think the way that everyone else thinks. And then later on in life, when I got, especially when I got into business, I was hitting levels of success that my peers were not.

3:56And I really stepped back and I'm like, why is this happening for me? I wasn't more connected. I didn't have more money. I wasn't better looking. I didn't have anything that I saw as a distinct advantage. But I pretty quickly realized that by being a contrarian, by always when everyone was going left, I just intuitively wanted to go right. And by taking that path less traveled, that's where the pot of gold is in life. So I have leaned into that heavily, always in my career, but even more so now as an entrepreneur. Well, can you give us some examples of some of the businesses that you created and how you found success going the opposite way versus the general population?

4:49Yeah. So the first business I started, I was a chief revenue officer. Sound familiar? Like somebody I know. And, you know, we had had massive success. We grew a company from about five people to nearly 300 and had double digit growth every single year for 17 straight years. And so through that, I was drinking from a fire hose every single day, and we were hiring people like crazy. And especially like 08, 09, the economy sucked, but we were hiring people like crazy. So every recruiter and their brother was calling me, supposedly going to provide us with exceptional talent. And I will tell you that my experience as a sales leader for 17 years dealing with recruiters, I thought it was the most backwards industry, the most antiquated industry I had ever seen in my life.

5:48And I thought I could build a better mousetrap. I thought I could build a different mousetrap. So I started a company 10 years ago called Something New. And that company won eight consecutive American Business Awards for innovation, which the record was three prior to that. And we literally built a different mousetrap. So everything that I had seen that drove me nuts as a CRO, we just did the opposite. And sometimes that's how easy it is. It's just what are the things that drive you crazy about a certain industry or vendors that you may work with and just do the opposite and you'll probably meet with success.

6:29And that's exactly what happened at something new. And so what made you decide to get out of that business and or expand from that business into all of these different things that you're doing today? So I started the community because I had all these relationships that I had built for decades with super interesting people. And I thought, well, wouldn't it be cool if I could bring these people in to talk to a community, but do it in a different way, in a live and interactive format. And so that was kind of the beginning of starting a community. And then again, access to these amazing people. And some of them are billion-dollar CEOs or famous musicians or chefs or Navy SEALs or pro athletes, Olympians, et cetera, best-selling authors.

7:31I knew I had an opportunity to leverage that again and decided to start a magazine called Outlier Magazine where I could celebrate the people that I admire the most in the world, which are people that are unafraid to show up differently and unafraid to travel down that path that is less traveled. Despite the fact that they know it's going to be dark, it's going to be scary, they're not going to have a lot of company, they're going to probably trip and fall and skin their knees. Those are the people I want to celebrate. And I'm now able to do that through the community, but I'm also able to do it through the magazine.

8:09And so how many years in are you now with creating this community? We're about two and a half years into the community. We have about 750 members in 35 countries. And we're five issues in on the magazine. And we have 30 ,000 subscribers, which I wasn't expecting that kind of growth. But I think people are really they're thirsting for not only a digital magazine, but also a physical magazine. So we are both a physical magazine and a digital. And I think people love to read about outliers. I think people love to hear the stories of those brave people who buck the system and are rebels or black sheep or mavericks.

8:58So those are the people I like to celebrate. All right, so let's run it back to the beginning of the Standing O series. I feel like the Standing O series kind of cracked open the door to the community and what you're doing now. So can you tell everybody a little bit about how Standing O came to be and what that book series is all about? So when I started my company, Something New, 10 years ago, giving back to me was super important. But I had a huge problem. And the huge problem was I'm a total control freak. so I did not want to take any VC money because I didn't want anybody to tell me what to do.

9:34So I'm like, how am I going to give back when I'm literally bootstrapping this business and I'm pouring every penny that I'm making back into the business? So I sat back and I'm like, what are my assets? And my assets were not a gigantic bank account that I could write checks to these organizations that I cared about. And I realized very quickly that my assets were all these unbelievable friends that I had. So I thought, okay, what if I asked my friends to write a chapter of gratitude for a life lesson learned? I'll put it in a book and I'll give a hundred percent of the proceeds to charity. So the first book that I wrote was called Standing O and Dick Vermeule, who's in the football hall of fame, wrote the forward.

10:21And Tiki Barber was an all-time great from the New York Giants, wrote the cover quote. And then friends of mine, from Jesse Itzler to Heather Monahan, wrote chapters of gratitude, beautiful chapters of gratitude. And it worked. We sold a bunch of books. We raised a bunch of money for a couple of nonprofits that I was really passionate about. And we gave them a lot of exposure. And so I thought, OK, this formula works. So I did it again with a book called Standing O Encore. And another friend of mine stepped up, Heather Monaghan. I don't know if you know her, but she wrote the foreword to Standing O Encore.

11:04Jesse Itzler wrote the cover quote. And so we've done that four times. Fifth book will come out this year. So I think it was a cool way to give people exposure to some of these unique friends that I have and hear their stories of gratitude for a life lesson learned. So maybe it was a little bit of a peek into their life that they normally wouldn't get. The thing that it didn't satisfy was it wasn't interactive. And that's really what pushed it into the community, where in the community, people now get to ask the Heathers and the Dick for Meals and the Jessies questions. And that's a different experience.

11:48So yeah, the Standing O's series has been just a really fun way to give back in kind of a unique aspect. So I've loved it. What I love that what you're describing is I'm listening to you is there was no master plan 10 years ago for any of this. It's more as you were building this business, something new, you said, I'm struggling to give back. I want to give back. let me try this writing a book situation, which then took off and led you into, okay, well, how can we even get people more involved with these people? And then that led into your community. I have always lived into the answers. You know, you talk about messy action a lot, and I believe in that so much.

12:33And, you know, I call it living into the answers. I think too many people, they have to figure out what the end of the game looks like in every step along the way. And that's not really how it works, especially as an entrepreneur. There are so many things that are going to come at you from left field. You have to be prepared to go into uncharted waters and live into the answers. You have to have some idea of where you're going, but you don't have to have it all mapped out. So I'm very, very comfortable figuring it out as I go. I've never heard live into the answers. Explain that a little bit better for us.

13:17Live into the answers just means you don't have to have the answer right now. You live into that answer. So as you progress through, whether it's a business or whatever it is that you're trying to build or a relationship, you're just living into the answers. So as you're accumulating more data, you're making the adjustments and you're bobbing and weaving and making new decisions. It's just inconceivable to me that you're going to know all that stuff up front. So you really have to live into the answers all the time. But most people get stuck because it's scary to do that. You know, it's funny, though.

14:04I'm thinking about this when I'm listening to you talk. I was thinking about the juxtapose of corporate America versus entrepreneurial, which when you talk about living into the answers, entrepreneurial is totally that. However, I was just thinking, and I know this is not true. This is a lie. Corporate America is not that. Here's what I noticed now. And I'm interested, as you've had experience in both, if you feel the same way. You think it as an employee in corporate America, everything is known. Everything is clear. We know you're told what to do and you're not living into the answer. However, that's actually when most companies really start to decline, whether they know it yet or not, when they just put things on rinse and repeat, especially with the employees living that way, you're taking a turn the wrong direction versus living into the answers.

14:51You're always trying to reinvent. You're always trying to fail forward. You're always trying to find that next path. And that's how you ultimately succeed. Do you see it that way now that you're out? I totally do. It's the reason why I left. I worked at a Fortune 500 company and I had a ton of success. I was the youngest national account manager in the history of the company. The company at that time was, I don't know, 80, 90 years old. but I left because I would have an idea. I was young. I was in my twenties and I'd have these ideas. I'd be so enthusiastic. I'd bring it to my manager. They'd be like, Oh my God, that's a great idea.

15:29They would take it to their boss. Great idea. And then nothing would ever happen because we were kind of like the Titanic. We could see the iceberg and we're like, Holy shit, we are too big and too slow and probably too dumb to course correct. And we're just going to smash into that iceberg. And to me, that was like, oh my God, I cannot live that life. Like that will drive me absolutely insane. I need to live into the answers and I need to be quick and I need to be able to pivot. And if I see the iceberg, I've got to figure out a way, you know, to get around it. I couldn't live in that environment.

16:08So I said that that's it. And that's when I went to the startup where we really lived kind of that living into the answer life. I love that. When you claim heading, you're on the Titanic heading for the iceberg in the radio business, that was exactly what was happening. And people were still saying in our company, this is the way we've always done it. I like the visual that you're providing. Like you can see you were heading iceberg and no one is adjusting. If you are in that situation, if you're listening right now and you're like, oh my gosh, that's me going to work every day, pick your head up out of the industry you're in.

16:41There are growth industries. There are opportunities. There are startups out there. There are people looking for great people. Your skills and talents can be applied to succeed outside of that arena. Do not stay on the Titanic if you're on it. For me, I remember thinking like, this is all I know. What if this is all I'm good at? Oh my gosh, Yet again, that is such a lie. It's all about fear. Choose to see fear as a green light that means go and go faster. Meet a different guest each week. Lay it on the chair. Confidence clear. Starting the year with a wardrobe refresh, Quince has you covered with luxe essentials that feel effortless and look polished.

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20:18Okay, Scott, one of the things that you are known for better than anyone, I mean, you're, in my opinion, the best in the world. networking and building a network. I'm constantly asked questions about how can I build a network? How in this digital era can I build a network? How in a city like Miami where it's so transient, can I build a network? How can now that so many people work remotely, how can I build a network? Can you talk us through some of the strategies that you've put in place that have made you such a master at creating a network? Yeah. I think the first thing to be able to create a great network is don't build a network.

20:58I don't build a network. I build friendships. I build relationships. There's a huge difference. Networking to me is transactional. And I think as soon as you're transactional, things change dramatically. So if you need something to happen by a certain time, I think that relationship is inherently going to be transactional. And I would call that that's going to be like a drive by friendship. It's probably not going to be sustainable. And so I view things very differently. I view things as building a friendship, and I never think of monetizing a relationship. I think that's the kiss of death. so I go into every relationship just saying is this an interesting person that I would like to get to know because I have wound up in some pretty amazing spots in my life and when I wind up in that spot or in that room or in that situation where I'm like how the hell did I get here when I reverse engineer it, it's never a straight line.

22:17It's this crazy circuitous path that takes me back to, okay, eight years ago, Heather Monaghan reached out to me to ask me a question. And I built this friendship that I had no idea you would be in my first book, write the forward to my second book that eight years later, I'd be on your podcast and all the other incredible things that happened. I think if I looked at it as how am I going to monetize this relationship with Heather Monahan in the next 36, 90 days, we probably wouldn't be talking today. But most people, that's how they think about things. And I would say that screws everything up.

23:09So there's so many things you have to do to build relationships. And I think, first, most people think they're really good at building relationships because everybody has some friends or everybody gets something from social media. But I would say, in my opinion, most people are not great at building relationships. I just know, let's just use LinkedIn as an example. 99 % of people that connect with me either don't send me a message, or if they send me a message, it's a terrible message. Or if I connect with them, regardless of whether they do one or the other, they immediately start pitching me on something.

23:54That is the worst way you could possibly build a relationship. So that's kind of one of my anecdotal pieces of evidence that I don't think most people are really good at building relationships and friendships. There's so many things that I could talk about when it comes to this subject because I'm so passionate about it. I even think of the word friend differently. Like most people will not call somebody a friend unless they're ready to have like a pajama party with them. This is my definition of a friend. If I know you and you know me and we like each other, we're friends. Now, that doesn't mean we're BFFs, but we're friends.

24:44So as soon as you put somebody in your mind, they're your friend, you start to treat things differently and things are no longer transactional and things are more about them than they are about you. So I think just refining your definition of what a friend is. I mean, I felt like you and I were friends very early on, like first conversation. I knew you, you knew me. I liked you, you liked me. And then, you know, so we went from probably a situation where if somebody said, do you know Heather? I would say, yeah, I know Heather. To now, if somebody says, do you know Heather? I'm like, do I know Heather?

25:35I freaking love Heather Monaghan. So it changes. There's a continuum of friendships. But I think having the mindset of viewing people as your friend changes the way you approach people. I love that. I've never heard that before. Okay. I want to tell a story how we met, because I think this is important for people to understand too, because I believe this is one of the reasons why you have such a massive network or so many friends. At the time I was engaged and my then fiance had a daughter who was getting ready to go to college and she wanted, I think it was NYU, was it Scott? Was it NYU? It was NYU.

26:12She was interested in NYU. We didn't know anybody affiliated, but we wanted to get some intel on the school and see if it would be a good fit for her. So I said, let me go to LinkedIn where I have a presence. and see who I know. You know, this is where I think LinkedIn is incredible. That network's amazing. So I just typed in NYU. Somehow you and I were connected and you were an adjunct professor for NYU. And I just sent you a DM and I said, hey, Scott, Heather Monningham, listen, I don't know how involved you are with NYU, but my fiance's daughter is really interested. And I wondered if I could jump on a call with you for just a couple of minutes and ask you some questions.

26:50Immediately, you were like, absolutely. Julie, you got on a call with me. I talked to you about her. You're like, I'm happy to connect her with students. I'm happy to get on a call with her myself. You just offered, offered, offered. And then we kept talking, right? The conversation obviously didn't stop there. And that's really where our friendship stemmed from was I was in need of help. I raised my hand and said, Hey, I don't know if there's any way you can help. And you were like, Hey, done. Let's talk about how I can help. Let's talk about how I can help you solve this problem, which you did.

27:19And that really just shot our friendship off on a fast track. Don't you agree? A hundred percent. And then you showed up for me consistently. You know, when I talk about friendship with people, I always use you as an example because you are somebody who shows up at the most inopportune times. and whether it's right before a TED Talk to come to New York for a book launch party or whatever the case may be, my timing in asking you to do anything is always horrendous, but you always say yes and you just show up for people. And that's so much of building really strong relationships is just showing up and knowing that you're going to be there.

28:10I remember years ago, my wife, Meg, who you know, who's going through a little bit of a situation. And I sent you a text and literally I barely hit send and you called me. So you just demonstrate all the time what a true friend means. And it's just true friendships are an absolute blessing. So true. And thank you for saying that. I feel the same exact way about you. But you know, what's interesting is people, as you know, I have a very strong circle of friends from my entire life that I grew up with in Worcester, Massachusetts. And you know, some of those people, people say to me all the time, how do you have best friends for more than 30 years in your life?

28:55And you just mentioned it. All it really is, it's simple. You show up. And so whenever someone's parent is passing away and they're having a funeral, you go, If someone, the birth of a child, like if there's these moments that people are raising their hand saying, I need your help, I need you to be here, you show up. You say, this is a priority. It might not be the easiest thing for your calendar at that time. But when people matter and you show up for them, that means the world. And you gave the example, I had my TEDx talk and it was like the day after your event. And I went, I'm like, okay, I'm going to be there.