Confidence Classic: Lead with Curiosity and Confidence with Master Interviewer Cal Fussman

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29:09I ask you to try to find your passion. Okay, so this is such a good conversation. I love this conversation. First of all, you know, what we need to do is look at your opportunities. Obviously, your podcast is a massive audience for you to connect with. They trust you. Number one, they feel safe with you. That is your biggest, in my opinion, your biggest opportunity to market to and monetize to convert into business opportunity very quickly because you have a large audience. They trust you and they're safe with you, right? So that's a great start that most people I don't think have. Number two, we need to look at how can we repackage the opportunity that you have to drive potential revenue for companies and or individuals, Cal.

29:52Because right now, a lot of people as senior leaders are struggling because they're not feeling good having to furlough people. They're not feeling good knowing how to lead in a crisis. You have information on how they can represent themselves to their employees. And these people are millionaires. So they will pay$15 ,000 a month,$30 ,000 a month to have a weekly call one-on-one with you to help for you to advise them and help reshape their strategy moving forward. So I see two different opportunities there. Also, the engaging with employees right now, doing virtual summits for companies. A lot of companies are reaching out right now.

30:32Now, it might not be at the rate you were getting for your speaking engagements before, but you can still touch hundreds of people on these Zoom calls and teach all of them the power of their story, why to tell it and how to tell it. So number one, I think you need to lead with certainty, right? So they absolutely need your services right now. And you not providing them, you're doing the world a disservice. Because if the faster you can connect with these people and help them to tell their story, the better their business is going to go. the sooner their culture is going to improve and the more positive people will feel about wanting to work with them and you'll bring that person more revenue, right?

31:10So we've got to have crystal clear certainty. It's not, I don't know if people want to work with me. I know people need to work with me and the time is now. And when we come across with that confidence and certainty in our capabilities, our expertise of which you have vast expertise and knowledge that you can impart and help others, that comes clear through the Zoom call or phone call to someone else. So they say, wow, Cal's right. I really do need this. However, if we don't lead with that certainty, they kind of walk away from the call saying, well, it's something to think about. And then someone else follows up, you know, and takes that pool of money that you were just going for and may not deliver the same kind of results that you can.

31:52So I go back to, it's our job to help and serve. And we've got to be crystal clear in the certainty that we know we can deliver when we approach someone? It's interesting because I put out messaging on my podcast, letting people know I'm going to pivot is what I'm going to do. And I got a lot of response, but it's generally been from individuals saying, can you help me? Do you do one-on-ones? And so I have to think that way. But again, what really gets me is I know people are hurting now. And so it's hard for me to go in and ask for a lot of money. I'm just not. I wasn't constructed that way. And I have to rewire my brain to think like that.

32:46This is what I'm worth. And this is the price. I'm sitting there thinking almost like a journalist. I wonder, are they on the edge? Are they just getting by? I don't want to take advantage of them. So I'm looking at your eyes and you're saying, oh my God, I got it. You know what you need to do? You need to go read your testimonials, your reviews and recommendations of your work. Go back and look at that. Go back and look at the value you delivered to other people. because somehow you're forgetting that right now. Yeah, I don't even think about it. I'm thinking about them. But you're really not.

33:26And let me tell you why. If you were really thinking about serving them, you would focus on your deliverables and how you can increase revenue for them once you teach them your teachings. Focus on that. You are doing them a disservice, not giving them the opportunity right now. Allow them to make the decision. But companies that are struggling that aren't telling the brand story, that aren't telling the founder's story, that are disconnected from their audience, you can come in there and fix that for them. What is that worth? You're right. You're a million percent right. And what I've just taken from what you've put out in front of me is I really just have to look at this and feel bad if I am not going out and saying, let me help you and being as assertive as I possibly can.

34:24You know, this is a strange thing that happened. And it comes from being a journalist. I know it because I was talking to a guy who's an agent now and who represents a lot of broadcasters and he makes gigantic deals. And I asked him, Steve, where did you get started? And he said, well, I delivered newspapers as a boy. And it turned out we had both delivered newspapers for the same newspaper in Long Island. And he said, when you're delivering newspapers, you're knocking on doors every Friday to collect your money. And they often have bonuses. If you can bring in the most new subscribers, you get a pair of roller skates.

35:11And he said, that's what I grew up in. And I realized, yeah, I lived in that world. But when I got to college and became a journalist, I was just separated from the business side by this code of ethics that I was taught. And so I've been smashing down this wall now for a couple of years. And I thought I had got it to a place where I could easily walk over it. But I see that the virus has brought out something in me that is like caring about them in a way that I would be caring about them more if I actually said, look, let me help you. Let me give you all these stories that have accumulated over the years and show you how the world's leaders have responded to situations like these and how they grew to greater heights.

36:14I need to think like that. And you've already flipped the switch in my mind. Now, is there a way that once I let them know what I can do. And I also try and do it in a custom way, like a tailor, let me make this suit just for you. So I go out of my way to give them the best. When it comes time to actually make the sale, close the deal, is there something that I need in my mind to just have that confidence that you're talking about and do it. And I know you're right because somebody I was dealing with, when I gave them a price, they said to me, like in their voice, their tone of voice was like, are you sure?

37:06Because like in their mind, they were anticipating that I was going to ask them for a lot more. Yikes.

37:16We don't like to leave money on the table. and I like I've heard of that is there a way of thinking to not leave money on the table well you know first of all there's market research that we can do right so we know with keynote speeches they start at five thousand they go to five hundred thousand dollars so just being familiar with that how wide the gap is and what people are offering you can pretty much feel confident going in that whatever your number that you think is big, there are people offering the same services for much, much more. So know that you're not the highest price point. And I know that factually, you know, I had the opportunity to speak with a lot of different people across the country over the past year.

38:01Some of them were getting$150 ,000 on the same stage I was on and I was getting 15 ,000. So I've learned that lead with, you know, the higher price point. Here's a thing, Cal, you can always negotiate down, right? Say you go into a meeting and you're asking, you know, here's my virtual speaker fee. Let's take a look. One of the ways I like to close is let's take a look at what dates work for you. You know, so you put the fee out there and then you ask for the date and then they'll say to you, Cal, wow, that's a little bit more than what I had budgeted. And that's when you say, great, great. What did you budget?

38:35What had you budgeted? And then they come back to you with a number. So when they come back to you with a number, and I just had this situation the other day, and I ended up actually walking from the deal because I had done my homework and I had spoken to another speaker that had spoken for them the prior year. That woman had charged$30 ,000. During the pandemic, I'm on the call with this company, and they wanted me to speak virtually for them. And so I asked my friend, I said, what do you think a therapy is? It's pandemic. I said, I think 10 is fair. And she said, oh yeah, I mean, for sure. I said, okay, great.

39:07I'm just going to do that to get it done. I want to get this closed. I'm on the phone with the woman and I said, okay, so I've reduced my in-person speaker fee to my new virtual fee, which is now 10 ,000. And I'm actually adding on for every attendee, I'm gifting them my video course. So they have some follow-up work they can do at home to advance themselves after the event as a bonus. What's the date? Let's get this thing on the books because I'm actually filling up with my virtual speaking right now. And she said, Heather, I have to be honest with you, that is way more money than we had anticipated.

39:37I said, you're kidding me. Now, remember, I have the knowledge of what they already paid, which that knowledge is always power. And I wasn't going to back down. And she said, well, we assume we're getting speakers for free now that it's a pandemic. And I said, well, I'm sure you will get some speakers for free. However, for me to put the time and effort into what it would take to do this, I can go on LinkedIn and offer a seminar for a couple hundred dollars and make a lot more money than I would make with you. So when I evaluate my time, it's just, that's not worth my time. And I opted out. So they wanted you to do it for free.

40:12Even though they previously were, you know, spending 30 ,000 plus for a keynote. See, that's not fair. And yeah, I haven't been in that situation. I think the difference here is that as a speaker, I basically knew, okay, the range is like 15 or 20 ,000. That's what I was getting. So sometimes I was able to get more. And sometimes when people didn't have it, but I really like them, I do it for a little less. But like I knew this range. I think now the big difference is I don't know. I don't know if people have the money, don't want to spend it, or if they don't have the money. That's probably what's holding back a sense of confidence that you're looking for.

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42:34I ask you to try to find your passion. So I completely understand and I was in that same situation. May 1st, I launched my first ever mentoring program. It was for 10 people. It sold out immediately and I found out why. I didn't charge enough. So sometimes the only way you're going to find out is by stepping into it. So I stepped into it. I gave too much value for too little of a price. And I let everybody know on the team. I said, my team called at the end of the month. I said, guys, I want to let you all know the price has accelerated. And I'm pulling some of the offerings back. However, I'd still love to have all of you back.

43:12and I hope that you still will see the value. Half of the team re-signed up, a new five came in now at a higher rate. And so I was able to weed out the people that couldn't afford it, which was fine, but continue to increase my price. And the next thing I learned, Cal, which has been really interesting, is there are different individuals that will pay differently, meaning you'll wanna have a discount code for the people that you do wanna help that you can see are really struggling and then you could offer them a discount privately. No one needs to know about that, right? Then there's other people that are going to come to you and say, Heather, I don't want the team part.

43:47I don't want the daily email. I just want the one-on-one. And what I've learned as I research their profiles on LinkedIn, those are typically CEOs. Those are typically lawyers at very large firms. Those are people making a lot of money. And so that's when you jump on an individual call with them and want to jump on a call and understand your needs and what you're looking to accomplish in this relationship. They'll tell you, you know you can do it. And then you lay out a very specific, very different plan, which is much, much more money. So a lot of this is doing the research, which accustomed to that, and asking around.

44:26Because I hear a lot of things. I hear that some of the companies are basically seeing, say,$2 ,000 to$3 ,000 as a range for their virtual talks. And this is just what I'm hearing from people. And so I guess what you're telling me is just reduce the fee to, say,$10 ,000. And if somebody says, oh, my goodness, I couldn't possibly do that right now in our dilemma. And look, the sponsor to my podcast, all of their earnings, or most of it, like 90%, came from NBA games, came from concerts. I know what they're going through. And so my heart is with them and they are my sponsors and we're moving forward together.

45:28But I know how difficult it is for them. And this is where I guess my struggle is because I don't know how difficult it is for everybody. I mean, for instance, you can have a gym that has closed down and you're bringing in no money. But if you sell pull-up bars that people are putting in their hallways, you're probably doing pretty good. Just like the people who sell yoga mats. They're probably doing great too, yet at the yoga studios, they've been closed and not bringing anything in. So do you recommend that I actually look for those companies that I can see are doing well and reaching out to them?

46:16and do you recommend? Because I kind of got to a place where it was all incoming and I could relax from that. But now I see that I have to go out and be a salesperson and generate lead and make either cold calls or warm the cold calls up is all new to me. The beauty of talking to you is every time I talk to you, you turn me into more and more of a salesperson. That's my goal in life, Cal. The first thing that I would do if I was in your situation, you have an existing audience with the podcast, right? This is your low hanging fruit. It's right in front of you. You have their trust. They believe in you.

47:00They know you're a good person and you will deliver. Converting those on the podcast into clients is something you can do immediately next week when you launch your show. So my suggestion to you would be to create an offering for individuals, right? Like you said, you've got people DMing, you messaging you after and have it be one specific option. Don't give people a lot of options because they'll do nothing, right? People are in this uncertain time right now. You want to come with certainty. You want to have a solution to a problem. You want to elicit emotion out of them, hitting on that fear, that pain point that they have.

47:34Let them know I've got the solution to this. You know, click the link in my bio to take you directly to the opportunity. There are limited seats available. I'd love to work with you in July and have a conversion mechanism. them set up so that they can sign up for your program, pay you immediately for your program, and you can get to work on coaching them. Okay, so now I need one of those credit card converters. Okay, so there's two options on this. There's a really easy one that doesn't look that good, and that's utilizing PayPal, where you just go in, you set up a PayPal account so easy, and you just set, you send them an invoice from there.

48:12Once they click the link and say, Cal, I want to sign up. You just invoice them directly. They pay you. It goes right into your PayPal account. And then you can move your funds from your PayPal account to your bank account seamlessly. It doesn't cost anything. It's so easy. Then there's another upgraded opportunity, which is a Shopify account, which is what I have now. And that's where you basically have a landing page that someone would design for you. And I have someone that can do it for you. And it's a really beautiful looking page that has your offering on there. Picture it like your website, Cal Plus, with just the offering, you know, be your little picture of you there with here's what you're getting, click here to buy now.

48:50And then it all transpires and converts inside of Shopify. Shopify gives you all the data and analytics. You can see how many people visited on what days, who went into the cart, who abandoned cart, people set their emails up in there to get more info from you. So it's a really seamless solution that has been working great for me. Oh, that sounds great. It sounds like they do everything for you. They do. And do they take like a percentage of the? Yes. For me, it's worth it. I don't know how to manage all that stuff on my own. That's the stuff I don't know how to do. So I was happy to pay them the percentage.

49:27For me, it's probably a hundred times more worth it because I'm pretty clueless at that stuff. But those are great suggestions. and so you know this actually leads to another area because if there are enough of these people that want to get together and I can bring them together in one place and then I'm understanding that I can actually separate people so that they can talk to one another and so I can have them do exercises and then come back to me. I mean, I can do this with a lot of people. Yes. So here's what I'm going to do for you. This is what Dean Graziosi did for me a couple weeks ago.

50:12He gifted something to me. I am going to gift to you a seat Thursday if you can make it. I partnered with a Harvard professor and we're giving a seminar on how to communicate in crisis and sell in crisis times because a lot of people feel the same way that you do that. it's really scary to approach people right now and I don't feel comfortable. So we're going to have breakout sessions on our Zoom room. You'll see how the whole thing will work and you'll learn specifically from the data the Harvard professor's bringing. It's mind blowing. And I think you'll love it. So I'm going to add you to that event if you can make it.

50:45I'm in. Whatever I had canceled, whatever I had set up is canceled. this is what I need because like not only are you going to give me the fuel but I think you're going to just show me the available techniques and not like I've done this in in person it's not like we're reinventing the wheel here it's just that now I know I should be looking at the green light on top of my computer so that it seems like I'm staring into your eyes because if I stare into your eyes it looks like I'm looking a little down I did not know that after everything you're passing on to me Heather it's the list I'm getting straight eye contact from you right now right now yes and how like can you notice a difference if I'm looking in the green right now as opposed to looking at you now could you see a difference yeah you can see a difference okay well that's why it's always good to go green.

51:51Fear is a green light that means go and go faster. That's my favorite saying when it comes to the color green.

52:00I always do what you say. I'll let you know how it works. But I realize I just have to jump into this and do it. It's going to work. It's worked in person. So if there's a few technological glitches along the way, we'll easily figure them out. And, you know, my feeling is when we're talking about this a little in advance, I really feel like this is going to be the way of the future. I think it's going to be hard to go back to the old world, especially if this virus comes back with a fury in November and December. It's just going to change the world. And once we're used to talking like this, which is great.

52:46I love the idea of just being able to sit here and talk with you. And when my time is up, then I can go talk with somebody else. I mean, you think about it. Somebody invites you out for a cup of coffee. The time that I spent going to the coffee place, coming back, I could have been sitting down talking to you. So I just feel like we are in the beginning of a complete reconstruction. I think cities are going to be different. I think they're going to turn into parks. We're going to have cars that you don't drive, that just drive around themselves, don't need any garages. The real estate value, when companies realize they don't need the office space, that's going to go down and the cities are just going to become different.

53:43And I think what we're doing now is, as somebody said to me, it's not the future, it's the present. And I'm feeling mighty present right now. Well, I'm so glad that you are present in here. And Cal, tell everybody, where can they find you? Where can they find your show? So the show is called Big Questions. That's the podcast. And anybody can reach me at CalFussman, C-A-L-F-U-S-S-M-A-N.com. And just send me an email. Go to contact, send me an email, and I will get right back to you. I've learned that from Heather. Cal, thank you so much. And I can't wait for you to join me on Thursday. day and everyone check out Cal's show.

54:32It's unbelievable. Literally the biggest and best guest in the world. Cal, thank you so much for being here. Thank you, Heather. It's always great. I leave rejuvenated. I'm ready to do it. All right. Hang tight. We'll be right back. I hope you enjoyed meeting my friend Cal as much as I enjoyed getting to chat with him, even though this time he wasn't in my home. We were over Zoom. It's so great to reconnect with a good friend. Okay, so I have an interesting story to share with you that I'm really excited about. I interviewed, first of all, I was introduced to a woman who's a doctor named Amy Morin, a really well-known therapist, author of 13 Things Mentally Strong People Don't Do, which is such a great book.

55:17And I had her on my podcast months back. She's an amazing guest and has become an amazing friend. When I was going to give my first TEDx talk, I sent her my talk asking for feedback and she gave me such positive feedback and then challenged me to do better on my intro which I really appreciated because not only was she supportive but she also said hey I think you could do better here and she was right and I did but I don't know that I would have done it if she hadn't had approached me in such a positive fashion and then given me direct constructive criticism and or feedback which was super helpful and she's just such a great person so she and I I text all the time.

55:54She lives in the Keys, not too far south from me. And during the pandemic, I've been checking on her because she's living on a boat. And anyhow, we're back and forth. And she sends me a note maybe three weeks ago and says, can I talk to you for a few minutes? Yeah, of course. We get on the phone and she says, Heather, I've been thinking about doing my own podcast. Mind you, she's been on the biggest podcast in the world. And her book is huge. and she's extremely successful. And she says, you know, I'm just wondering, people are telling me, and I love this because I heard this too, I should do a demo reel for my podcast and I should do a couple guest interviews and I should do some testing and, you know, all this BS that everybody will tell you.

56:39And I'm listening to her, listening to her. And she says, but I just, I don't know. I mean, sounds like a lot of work and then you still don't know if you get it because there are different options with the podcast. You can just flip a switch and launch your own podcast, which I did for my girlfriend, Kelly, when I went to visit her in the summer. We just flipped a switch and started recording her and she was up and running. Or you can go to podcast companies and sell and pitch yourself and they can do, you know, the execution side. You do the speaking side and they do the support side. So I definitely have seen both sides of this and knew there was potential on either one.

57:12And I knew more importantly that when I wanted to launch my show, I was being told the same stuff she was. do this and test this. And here's the bottom line. No one's going to want to take a risk on you, but you, even though this woman is this proven huge commodity right now, which I wasn't shocked by just because I know there's trepidation and fear everywhere in business, especially now. So I said to her what she probably knew I was going to say to her, which, you know, I'm going to say, I said, listen, do you buy that? Do you think you're not going to give a great podcast because you've been on every major podcast in the world.

57:48You're a sought after guest. People love you. Why wouldn't your podcast be great? You go on these other shows and they show up higher in the ranking than ever. Come on. What do you think is going to happen when you turn that mic on and start interviewing people? You're a trained therapist. You're going to help other people. Isn't this worth doing? And she said, yeah, I really think it is. I said, well, then you shouldn't just maybe do it. You have to do it. And people need you now, right? This is the time now we're in a pandemic and people are struggling and there's anxiety and there's depression and people need to hear from you and consistently be able to rely on you and know you're going to be showing up each week for them.

58:26So I said, here's the thing. If you go out there and I would go out there with conviction and certainty to pitch myself to these companies and say, I'm going to be honest with you. This show is coming out. I'd like it to be with you. However, if you're not in a position to launch the show, I will be launching it with someone else. You know, hit the marketplace and hit these individuals. It's a short list of companies with that conversation and let them know with conviction, you are bringing this show to market. It is happening. And she said, Heather, that is all I needed to hear. Thank you. I'm doing it.

58:58OK, so that was maybe a month ago. I am so excited to tell you that tomorrow she is coming to Miami. She's got a studio set up and I am going to be one of her guests tomorrow on her new show. She's been interviewing a number of people from her boat in the Keys. And since Florida's a little bit opened up, that's a whole different conversation right now. But she's able to get a situation where we can be safe and record and socially distant tomorrow. So I am so excited to go support my friend who supported me by coming on my show. And I'm grateful to get the opportunity to go on her show. She's also launching a new book around supporting children and the 13 things mentally strong children don't do, which I will be bringing her back on my show for sure.

59:41And you will hear her again because I think it's really helpful to not only hear the things we can do for ourselves, but also for the people around us. That's one of the biggest ways we build confidence is in helping others. And I was reminded by that just the other day. So I'm definitely gonna bring her back on. I'm so excited to go on her show. But I also wanna tell you, tomorrow is gonna be the craziest day and here's why. And these are the things people don't know that go on behind the scenes. I'll wake up first thing in the morning, get the house ready, you know, get my son ready, do breakfast.

1:00:12And then I'll, I jumped down, do my social media. I do my morning email that I send out to my mentoring team. Then I will do a quick workout, get ready. I'm going to do the Harvard seminar. So that's a few hours, that's three hour window right there. Then I'm going to run downstairs, jump in my car, drive 35 minutes North of here to go meet my friend, Amy and do this recording. Then I'm going to drive back here. That'll probably be a couple of hours that I'm going to drive back here. And I had promised one of my mentoring team members from May that I would do his show when he got it live. He's got it live.

1:00:50I'm super proud of him. And so I'm doing his show tomorrow as well. And then I'll do my mentoring individual calls after. So my days are so different now. They're definitely hectic, but I don't leave the house much, which I'm, I guess I'm really lucky to have that set up and situation, but I'll go back to it's because I created it. I pivoted my business. It's so different. There's a lot less interaction with me, with other people, which I miss. You know, I have it in zoom, which I'm not trying to cheapen that that still is valuable, but I do miss in person. So I'm super excited to get to see my good friend who I haven't seen in months, you know, in person.

1:01:28It's going to be really exciting. And it's so funny how things change that I get this excited about just getting to see somebody and be in the same room with them. Even if we can't hug, we can be near each other. And that seems worth celebrating. So I'm hoping you have something that you're looking forward to this week. I'm hoping that you have something that makes you feel really excited and that you're pushing yourself beyond your boundaries. because tomorrow I know my girlfriend is and I am going to be cheering her on. Make sure you have people cheering you on because you deserve it. Okay, until next week, I'll be back here creating confidence.

1:02:02I hope you're doing the same and I can't wait to see you then. I decided to change that dynamic. I couldn't be more excited for what you're gonna hear. Start learning and growing. Inevitably, something will happen. No one succeeds alone. You don't stop and look around once in a while. You could miss it. I'm on this journey with me.