Confidence Classic: Make the Leap From Safety Into Purpose with New York Times Best-selling Author Jon Gordon & Co-author Alex Demczak

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0:32Don't wait for a problem to remind you you're uncovered. Policies start as low as$29 a month. Get protected in minutes at nextinsurance.com. That's N-E-X-T insurance.com. One of my mentors, they said, Alex, right now your boats are not only close together, but they're docked together and tied up and they're actually causing friction. And so like until you make this jump one way or the other, you're just going to be banging your head against the wall. So you need to go for it. And I think for your listeners, someone that's thinking about what should I do? Should I go for it? Assess what boat are you in and what boat are you trying to go to?

1:07And how can you get those boats closer so that when you jump, there's not a huge splash? I'm on this journey with me. Each week when you join me, we are going to chase down our goals, overcome adversity and set you up for a better tomorrow. I'm ready for my close up. Tell me, have you been enjoying these new bonus confidence classics episodes we've been dropping on you every week? We've literally hundreds of episodes for you to listen to. So these bonuses are a great way to help you find the ones you may have already missed. I hope you love this one as much as I do. Hi, and welcome back. I'm so excited for you to meet my two guests today.

1:47Alex Demchak is a keynote speaker, entrepreneur, and author who challenges businesses, schools, and sports teams to make a difference. Alex has worked with a wide range of organizations across various industries to help individuals increase their performance, enhance their leadership, and maximize their potential. Now, my second guest today has been on the show before. He's amazing. You know I love him. John Gordon. He's inspired millions of readers around the world. He's the author of 26 books, including five children's books and 12 bestsellers. And ultimately, he's the man. He's the top keynote speaker in the U.S.

2:24He beat me on the ranking, but he's got no shot at beating me one-on-one in basketball. John and Alex, welcome to the show. It's great to be with you. And you know what? We were on the same list. So that was an honor that we were on the same keynote speaking list in terms of top leadership speakers in the country. So congrats on that. That was awesome to see you there. Oh, thank you so much. All right. But today I'm super interested in getting into your new book, The Sale. You know, my track record in business is all around sales, sales leadership. I love anything about selling, but I want to start off, Alex, with you.

2:58How the heck did you get picked to be a co-author with John Gordon? Hashtag blessed. I had to pay him a lot of money. I know I'm kidding, but no, I've just, I've had the opportunity to be mentored by John for the past six years. So I played college football at University of Missouri and I was a walk-on quarterback. And John and I connected. And over the years through being on his team and really just learning from him, it was kind of a no-brainer for me as we kind of talked about this book and there was a ton of symmetry in what we were doing. And I think all these organizations, teams, schools that we speak to, there was this one overall theme that I think we kept seeing and that's what we decided to write the book about.

3:38How do you guys write a book together? I've written two books, both. I've written all by myself and then I email it off to editors to make changes. How do you come together collaboratively to work? What does that look like? Yeah, Heather, Alex deserves a lot of credit for that. He really wrote the book, had the idea initially, right? So he came to me. I've been mentoring him for all these years. He's been speaking, you know, for me, for various organizations, companies. He did about 13 different universities, college students, college athletes on a tour. one time. I couldn't do it. They didn't have a big budget.

4:14Alex went and did it throughout the Northeast from city to city, sharing the message on positive leadership, came back and he was an improved speaker by doing that. Think about it. He was starting when he was 23, 24 years old. He's now 29 years old. He's 29, but he was starting this when he was young. So I've known him this whole time. And he has lived this message of integrity, of doing the work because I saw him work hard. I saw him go out there and do anything anywhere, right? Hey, Alex, you're going to South Dakota. Alex, you're going to Kansas. You're going here, Alex, you're going to this place and you know, and they only have this much, but you want to do it.

4:51Yeah, I'll do it. So I saw him hungry. I saw him work hard and he was going to do the work. And so when he came to me with this idea of, of the sale, I said, you know, I love that. It's all about integrity. You know, it's all about focus. I love the story. And then we got into then reworking it, tweaking it. I had to put my touch on it, right? I've written a number of books. It had to be something that would be part of my voice as well that I felt comfortable sharing. So I did a lot of editing and a lot of tweaking. We changed the ending. We changed some parts in the middle, but the main gist was him, his idea, and all that story still remains.

5:26And it was an incredible story. I was like, wow, wow, this is a really good book, Alex. Like what you wrote is really strong. And when I saw it, I thought, you know, especially with the title, this will make a great book to do. So that's how we ended up doing it together. Well, for everyone listening, what I just heard John share is that Alex was coming up. He hadn't, you know, quote unquote, made it yet. And John gave him a lot of tough things, gritty, not glamorous, not sexy, not write a book with bestselling author, John Gordon, but hey, hit the road and hit this challenge city in this area, right?

6:00So Alex, really, you took the opportunity, but then you put that work in. Well, yeah, and when I first started working for John, you know, John has people just like you, I'm sure, reaching out all the time, like, hey, can I get some of your time? Can I do a book with you? And so at the beginning, John was like, hey, go out and do these free gigs, you know? And he's like, and John would tell me, he's like, speaking leads to more speaking. And he's like, the more you put yourself out there, the more these opportunities will come. And yeah, when I was 23, I didn't really know what I was getting into.

6:28And I'd go to a company sales meeting or like John was saying, I did this big tour in the East Coast. It was, I think he said, 13 talks in 14 days. And so it was just insane. Right. I was feeling sick, but I pushed through it. And it's John, I think, seeing that in me and saying, hey, just go for it. And there's times where it was hard. And I'm like, wait, why am I doing this talk for free? I should be at like a normal nine to five job. But for all the people listening that like when you see what you want to do. And I saw that in John, like if I thought about 20 years from now, what do I want to be doing?

6:57It's what he gets to do. It's what you get to do. And I'm like, wait, why wait 20 years when I can start doing this now, even if it's free, even if I have to grind a little bit. And so it's just been really fun ride these last few years. I'm so thankful for his mentorship because that's him pouring into me has allowed me to do this work. And I'm so grateful. And Heather, like you, when you left corporate America, when you were done with corporate America, like, okay, I'm going to now build my brand. I'm going to go out there and do it. Alex same way. He recently just quit his job at a, at a mortgage company where he was working, getting a paycheck, a good paycheck, supporting his family.

7:30He's married as a daughter. Right. And so he is basically, he's like an old soul. He's like a 40 year old person in a 29 year old body. Cause he thinks about the future. He's got a 401k. Like I didn't, I didn't even think about a 401k at 29. Like when Alex is thinking about all these things and he's like, you know, should I give this up and pursue this? I'm like, Alex, if this is what you want to do, then you should. And he's recently giving up the corporate life to now pursue this, just as you did, stepping out into the unknown and going after it. I have a lot of respect for that. Yeah, he is an old soul by looking at him with those old AirPods on.

8:03For sure, I get that same feeling from him. All right, Alex, tell us a little bit. How did you come up with, and for anyone that hasn't read John's books, you know, one of the signatures of his books are these fables that he shares that really pull the reader in. Alex, how did you come up with this fable about Matt? Well, I think the biggest compliment we've received in the last week or two is that people have said like, wow, this feels like one of John's other books, like it fits right in. And I think that's been the coolest compliment to hear. When I think back to just getting started with speaking and going to these schools, going to these organizations, what doesn't matter what industry, the message of integrity kept coming up.

8:40And I think if you, you can even just try on Netflix, there's documentaries about whether it's downfall with or Hillsong, there's all these documentaries right now that you can look into that, that deal with integrity. And, and I think as we started to talk about that topic of what does it look like to, to lead and to make a difference, but do it the right way. So when you look back, you're proud and you're excited of how you lived and the other people around you, they looked at you as a person who did things the right way. And so as John and I started to formulate the story, I think that that's what it was.

9:09we wanted to make the main character, Matt, a very relatable person. And I think when you read the story and you see Matt and what he goes through, you're like, wow, I could see myself wanting to have success, wanting to do the right thing, but also being torn because that's, as we'll get into the story, that is the story. Matt has the chance to make the sale of a lifetime. He's in sales, a very lucrative industry, and he has the chance to make the sale of a lifetime. He would make$7 million. I mean, that's a lot of money where I'm come from. So$7 million. But the only problem is he has to lack integrity in some pretty major ways to go through with the sale.

9:47And so that's the story is he meets this mentor named Randy, who teaches him these laws and principles about integrity. And Heather, John and I can't tell you the ending of the story, you'll have to everyone, all your listeners have to see the ending. But it's very cool to see the transformation conversation in Matt's life, learning about these different principles. So for both of you, I'm interested to know at what point in your life did you have to face this question of, do I go left or right on the road to when it splits and there's a choice between, you know, following integrity or taking the other road?

10:19I think it's a choice daily. I think it's a choice that comes up quite often. I mean, even just recently, I had an engagement with the Women's Basketball Association for college coaches and they asked me to speak. It was supposed to be at a certain time. They changed the time. And then I had to go to Fort Lauderdale from Minnesota where Catherine, my wife was, and where there was an event that we were supposed to go to. And it was the only fight out was at 1040. And so if it was at the time that they changed it to, I wouldn't be able to make it. So I reached out to them. We talked and I could have just canceled, but I said, no, let's try to make it work.

10:59And they were a little upset. They were disagreeing and I was disagreeing. And finally, I just said, look, don't pay me. Don't pay me. And let's just do it at this time. And they said, okay. And so they were happy to do it at that time. I didn't get paid, which was fine. But I just felt like I did the right thing by saying, don't pay me because we took that out of the equation. I spoke for 30 minutes instead of an hour. We started half an hour early. The talk went incredible. Probably one of the most powerful talks of the year for me. The response was unbelievable. I made my flight and made the weekend.

11:33It all worked out by me just saying, don't pay me. For me, that was a choice. There's been other situations where when something happens, do you let someone know that they double paid? I've had that happen before as a speaker. Heather, have you ever had that happen when you got to the chat? No. I've had people not pay me and I'm chasing them down, Don. Sign me up. I've had two checks and I've had to let them know they sent me two checks and send that back. Again, little things like that that come up along the way. Of course, there's those big decisions, but for me, I don't even see them as decisions because I'm really going to take the right path and the right road.

12:09So it's really not even a decision. You've already decided. So to me, it's not a decision because you've already decided. All right, but you sound like the cover of Wheaties right now. Like there's a face on the Wheaties box. And here's the thing for, if somebody hasn't heard the first episode that you were on, you did not always live your life. It wasn't this clear to you when you were younger. Right. So I, yeah, I was miserable. I was negative. I was not always a great person. I did not always live with integrity. Right. So in my younger ages, I wasn't like Alex, Alex has been, you know, an integrity kind of guy since he's probably like a teenager.

12:42Not true. Not true. Okay. Well, then you'll get it. You'll have to get into that, Alex, but I wasn't, but along the way you learn, you grow, you make the decision, and then you truly choose to live your life that way.

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16:08It's important for everyone listening. John wasn't always living this amazing life. I certainly wasn't. Listening to you share that story reminds me, I remember when I was an equity partner in my early 20s, I had scaled this company huge. We bought it for$25 million, sold it for$55 million in under three years. I was so proud of my work. However, I remember right at the line that we're about to sell the company or about to close, they were doing their due diligence. Someone brought me on a conversation and said, hey, it looks like the books have been cooked, which I didn't even know what that meant back then.

16:39I was so young. And I said, well, I don't understand. Explain to me. I don't know what I don't know. And so they started talking to me about we had moved revenues from month to month, not duplicate revenue, but shifted to our benefits so that the growth trajectory would look as attractive as possible. And that was not ethical. And I did not know. I sat there, I listened to the conversations and then I knew, okay, we've been doing something wrong and I didn't make it a bigger deal. Fast forward to after leaving that deal, we left with a lot of money, did really well in that deal. I remember never feeling great about it.

17:16I remember being on the plane, leaving Michigan. I remember thinking crap, like I did a great thing, but I don't feel so proud. This sucks. Cut to, you know, 20 years later or whatever it was when I'm getting fired. And that woman that fired me asked me to sign a non disparaging agreement to never speak about what I had went through at that company. And if I would do it, I'd get a really big check that would take care of my son and I. And I remember pushing those papers back to her, no matter how bad I wanted that money, I was not going to walk away from a big business deal and say, I just don't feel great about who I am.

17:50And that first not so great situation set me up for big success in that next one. So I totally appreciate what you shared, John, that, you know, you didn't always have this clear vision. I certainly didn't either. Alex, give it to us. What was your moment that you learned about the importance of integrity? Yeah. Well, Heather, what you just said is perfect. And honestly, for your listeners, once you read the book, what you just described is pretty close to the storyline of the sale, which is super exciting. And the cool thing is that you identified the second time, right? Like you lived that first experience, but then you made the correction.

18:20And I think all of us have opportunities to do that. And so I think back to my junior year of college was really big for me. I actually got cut from the team and I was living the dream as a college football player, a quarterback, doing all these things for this sec school. And they came in and they said, long story short, we're bringing in someone to take your spot. That was my identity. Like that's who I was. And so in a, in a blink of an eye, it was taken from me and that entire junior season, I had to do all these small things, like all these things I did not want to do, did not feel like doing.

18:49I had to make the people who took my spot look better. Like that was talk about humbling. and that entire season went by it was tough I didn't do it perfectly and then my senior year I ended up I continued to work out got back on the team as a quarterback it was an awesome experience but for the first time in my life I had to take ownership because early on I was blaming the coaches saying oh they made the wrong decision like kind of gossiping well he's not that good I think for me that was an integrity issue of yeah I'm going to try to make him look worse when I'm the one I got cut and so I had to learn I have to own my responsibility I have to own my actions and try to get better.

19:23And when, what are my blind spots? And I think for all of us, we have these blind spots. If I ask my wife, Hey, what are my blind spots? She could give you a list of all of them pretty quickly. Right. And she's, she's awesome and great. But if we have that open and trust relationship, we're going to be real with each other. And I think just like the story you just described, I think so many of us have these opportunities in life to do something that maybe will make the quick buck or a lot of bucks in the situation you just told us, but how cool was it that you were able to say, you know what, I'm going to push the papers back across the table and I'm not going to move forward with this.

19:54And that's, I think the message we're trying to share in the book. They asked Alex to actually coach if he wanted to be a volunteer coach the year that he chose when they cut him, they said you could still be involved in the program, but not as a player, as an assistant coach, basically a gopher doing all the things that we don't want to do. You have to do it. Alex chose that role, right, Alex? Yeah. I mean, Heather, I was literally making coffee for the coaches, printing off copies. And this was where, You know, football for me was it like that's what I wanted to do. That was my passion. And then they're telling me, essentially, you're not good enough here.

20:26Do these menial tasks. Right. That brought me low pretty quick. And yeah, John, you're right. I mean, it was it was humbling and I was tough. So that for me was a time where it was very easy for me to be like, screw you guys. But I had to really learn and be humbled through that experience and say, you know what, I'm going to take ownership for me and how I can improve. Heather, I remember my mom when I was younger, my mom caught me in a lie. I was a teenager and she said, don't ever lie to me. She said, if you lie to me, I can't trust you. And if I can't trust you, then we can't have a relationship.

20:58So make sure you always tell me the truth. And I never lied again after that. So that was a really defining moment for me. Okay, I'm going to rewind that and play that back for my son, my 14 year old. Thank you very much for that, John. All right, so guys, tell me, to me, integrity in business, I don't want to say it goes without saying, but you just assume people know, right? Although, and you were mentioning this earlier, Alex, when you look through business today, you look at headlines today, CEOs of companies are being ousted because of lack of integrity. I mean, we're industries are going down because people are out there making claims that aren't true.

21:37Lie. I mean, it's beyond they've forgotten about integrity. So who is this book for? Is this book for everyone in business? It's absolutely for that person who I think you just described in business, who is maybe running at a pace in life where they're having success. They want to have success and maybe they're in a corporate job. Maybe they're an entrepreneur, but there's someone who's achieving these high levels. But at what cost? Like I know for me, last September, I started to get these heart palpitations. I started getting this racing heartbeat. And I was doing so many things in life. I had a new child.

22:08I was doing all these different things. So I actually went to a counselor and they said they did an EKG. They said everything was fine. They said, you're running at a pace that's unsustainable. This is going to stop you if you don't scale down. And so I eventually did. And that led to me eventually quitting my job to go all in on speaking. But I think this book is absolutely for someone who is saying, I want to have high levels of success, but do it the right way. Because just like Heather, you mentioned the CEO who's in the headlines. What if the CEO that maybe has years worth of small rationalizations of maybe decisions, behaviors they get away with, that all of a sudden someday it's an explosion.