Confidence Classic: Speak with Gravitas and Command the Room with Caroline Goyder

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21:14Heather Monahan:One of the things I'm thinking about as I'm hearing you speak is the power of the pause. Can you tell us a little bit about how we can use pause in speaking?

21:24Caroline Goyder:It's so interesting, isn't it? Because I know my editor, my video editor will say, if he's editing YouTube videos, you've got to cut out all the pauses. People hate pauses on social media. That's not the same in speaking because a pause is like good poetry. You know, you look at a poem or a song lyric, a film script, there's loads of white space. And what happens in the white space? We process stuff because not everything is speaking. If you lay out speech like a poem or a song lyric, then you create a space for the audience to connect with it. Whereas if I just talk at you and I don't stop and I keep going because I'm nervous and I'm just kind of on to roll because I can't really, then you zone out because there's no white space.

22:09Caroline Goyder:No one can think that fast to hear you. No. And yet people do because we're all so speedy. Our lives now are so speedy. And I think there is a movement to all this productivity movement and the emphasis on time and managing time, I think is coming as a response to the overwhelm. But most of us are still in the overwhelm. And so as speakers, you've got to put the brakes on. You've got to slow down because that helps an audience. It doesn't mean that you have to be like a kind of, you know, speak your weight machine. You can be energized, but you need pauses.

22:47Heather Monahan:What about using or varying how quickly you speak at different points in a speech? How do you think that can work for a speaker?

22:55Caroline Goyder:Oh, gosh. I mean, you know that and I know that, that a good speech has dynamics. and I say to speakers when I'm coaching them, think about what energy you want the audience to feel at each section of the speech. Because another cool thing about the diaphragm, such a nerd, is that the diaphragm responds to different emotion. So if you think, I really want the audience to be excited about this bit now and if you think about something that really makes you feel excited, guess what they do? And if you want them to feel frightened, you know think about something that really scares you and chances are you don't have to work very hard if you're feeling it they'll feel it too and so we can really move an audience through emotional gears just like a good movie a good speech is like a good movie isn't it the dynamics are so important because if it's just one note all the way through people get so bored so quickly

23:50Heather Monahan:oh gosh that's so incredibly true and we do not want a bored audience and when I say the board audiences, right? Right now with everyone on virtual, how do you coach people to be as powerful and effective and engaging through a computer?

24:06Caroline Goyder:This question is coming up so much. In fact, I did a session today for a big group and it came up. The first rule I learned from business schools really early on in lockdown, which is stand up. And, you know, I work a lot with a laptop stand or a standing desk because if I have, you know, you'll know this, if you have a big audience on Zoom or Teams, whatever platform, if you're sitting at the desk, you sit to write emails, doesn't have the same feeling of excitement that it would if you walked out on the conference stage. And standing up can start to replicate that. And it makes it feel more like a performance.

24:46Caroline Goyder:And I think that's the game changer note for most people is stand and gesture, because that brings your voice into it.

24:53Heather Monahan:Explain to us the role that gestures play or how we know when we're gesturing too much or too little, whether it be on a computer or if you're on a stage.

25:03Caroline Goyder:So there are some good rules which are like broadcast rules, which are, you know, don't wave your arms around as if you're on, you know, a huge Royal Albert Hall stage. But the gestures that you would naturally do if you were chatting to a friend or a group of friends are probably going to work on screen. The reason that's true is that because of the hands being connected to the shoulders and the shoulders being connected to the ribs, everything I do with my hands affects my breathing and my voice's breath. So gesture affects my voice. And the more I use my hands, the more engaged my voice is, the more resonance it has and usually the more power it does.

25:41Caroline Goyder:if I'm sitting at a desk and I've got my hands clamped and my ribs tight and I'm not moving, my voice is going to be much flatter. So it's just a really simple way to liven up delivery. Stand up, gesture the way you do when you're relaxed. It's so simple.

25:58Heather Monahan:I worked with a coach for my talk. Only time in my life I've ever engaged one, which now I want to, again, now that I'm learning from you right now. One of the things she taught me that I just hadn't thought of was I was doing a five-step process was to put your hands out and use your fingers to say one, two. And I asked her, why is that important for me to do? And she said, that visual that you're going to provide with the audience is really going to make this very powerful. It was a very subtle thing to do, but it definitely worked.

26:31Caroline Goyder:There's so much science on the power of gesture to lock things into memory for audiences. So that's the other layer to it. Absolutely.

26:39Heather Monahan:And for the speaker too. That's for me, it helped me knowing that I was signaling like that with my hand helped me remember what I was going to be saying.

26:48Caroline Goyder:And it slows you down, doesn't it? Because you're kind of committing to it. Use the body. The body is the most important engine of good speaking. Be in the body, definitely.

26:58Heather Monahan:And what about actually walking and your posture? How does that play into giving a speech?

27:04Caroline Goyder:It's interesting. Different people do different things. There are definitely speakers who do a lot of walking. You know, I think Tony Robbins or someone that motivational speech style. I think you can really march around the stage. I'm often the counterpoint to that when I coach people, because I say, unless you're Tony Robbins, actually moving when you're not talking is quite powerful. So you land a point and you land the energy of that point and then you pause and you take a wander and this comes from acting often when directors are working with actors they'll say move the thought let the thought move you across the stage because it shows that you're changing your thinking so maybe I've made my point and now I want to move it on if I move to another point in the stage the audience kind of follow me in thinking so it's a way to move ideas on for you and for the people listening and it's really different to the Tony Robbins school, but it can be really powerful.

28:02Heather Monahan:It's so interesting to me how much thought goes into this and how strategic it is. And it's also making me feel excited right now because these are things I frankly haven't thought about for myself when speaking, but I know that these are things that I can implement. So thank you so much for sharing them. It's fun, isn't it? It's super fun. What about expelling your voice or I don't want to say louder, but projecting maybe? What are some tips around projection?

28:33Caroline Goyder:Oh gosh. I mean, I was told, you know, way back when your voice is thin, you have no resonance. And I just thought, oh, it's never going to change. And all I can say is that I've spent the last 10, 15 years doing five minutes of humming, chanting, singing every day. And if you just spend five minutes singing in the morning, your voice will naturally start to have more projection and more resonance. But if you're on a stage and you're worried that you don't have enough power, first thing to think about is ground. Get your feet really planted. Then think posture. Get your spine aligned. So make sure that everything is lined up properly as if you're in a Pilates class or standing against a wall and you're not doing text neck because when we stick our heads forward it's really difficult to project.

29:24Caroline Goyder:Then think about sending the voice from the tummy. You know if you think about where you laugh from or yawn from that kind of big yawn or big deep laugh that you do with friends it comes from your lower torso. We don't speak from the throat. That's just the channel. The power is the belly. So feet grounded, straight spine, power in the belly. Then find something at the back of the room that you want to send a thought to and think of pulling your voice from that point. So rather than pushing your voice out at something, you stand up straight and you pull in because then the voice naturally connects and it's easy.

30:06Caroline Goyder:Whereas if I think, if I stand to the side, if I think, oh, I've really got to reach that point. If I start pushing in my throat and pushing my head forward, that's straining the voice. It's going to make it tired. So just get strong, pull in, and you'll naturally have power. And we do it when we sing.

30:25Heather Monahan:That is such an interesting idea. And my son is going to love that I will be singing even more in the car on the way to school. Caroline, thank you for that one. I will give him your email for his, he'll be filing complaints because I'm not a very good singer, but I'm willing to try it. I always want to get better. I always want to grow.

30:42Caroline Goyder:They're fine until a certain point, aren't they? And then they don't like it anymore. Mommy, please don't dance.

30:47Heather Monahan:You're right, when they were little, they liked it at 14. Not so much. No, not so much. Okay, you talk about gravitas and how to have more of it. Can you explain what that is?

30:58Caroline Goyder:Yeah, gravitas is the book I wrote in 2014 and it's something that I think it's kind of my word and it's a weird one that it's become my word. I think I have lawyer parents and I wonder if there's something to do with that. Gravitas, I was asked to teach at a big corporate in London and they said to me, people keep saying, oh, she has no gravitas, he has no gravitas and we don't know what to do with that. And I suspect in the US, that is a word that is also bandied about. What it means is seriousness, dignity, weight, and it was a Roman virtue. What it means to me after researching it is grounded presence.

31:40Caroline Goyder:Sully, you remember the incredible pilot, Chelsea Sellenberger, who landed the plane on the blooming Hudson River and everybody walked out or swam out or got onto a boat, I imagine. His voice is, for me, the epitome of gravitas. It's calm and measured, honest, congruent, expert. That's it. It's not charisma. It's not impressive. It's you at your best helping someone. And so you see it in the midwife. You see it in the doctor. You see it in the preacher. There are lots of places in the world where people who don't have famous titles have gravitas.

32:22Heather Monahan:And I know you share in your TED Talk about when you look at a king, what does a king look like? And what does that confidence look like? And who is that most powerful person in the room?

32:34Caroline Goyder:and it is that stillness. I mean, a lot of these principles come from acting and one of the principles on stage is stillness and movement, movement and stillness. And often you can tell on stage who the most powerful person is. You know, think of any good mafia movie that you've watched. The most powerful person is still because everybody else moves around them. You know, is there in the animal kingdom as well? And so often stillness is the kind of paradoxical thing that makes you powerful. and stillness in the breath underpins stillness in the body because you can't be still in the

33:10Heather Monahan:body if your breath isn't calm that is again something that I really haven't thought about but you're so right when I envision and I love that analogy you know of a king or you know Sully for that matter is just that calm quiet power that we all want to project and taking it back to our breathing is great. It's simple, but I just want to become disciplined about it. I want to incorporate this into my regular routine. What are your suggestions for people to get breathing work or be mindful of it in their day to day?

33:46Caroline Goyder:I mean, I find my best days are the days when I get up a bit early and I sometimes do a bit of yoga, but sometimes I just sit on a bolster or a chair and I put my hand on my tummy and I just monitor my breathing for five minutes. Most days, as we've said, I will do some chanting or singing because that's also really calming and it warms up your voice. But what I would say to people is anything that gets you into your body, gets your body released and gets your voice centered. And for some people that's tennis, right? For some people it's going for a run. The one thing I would say is I keep coming across clients doing peloton who have really tight hips and soas and that makes their voices tight so the the thing i warn people about is a lot of peloton and a lot of weights if you're doing those they won't help your voice and they're fine to do of course everything's fine but balance it with some stretching because if the hips get tense the jaw gets tense and then the voice gets tense because hips like jaw are really connected

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39:46Heather Monahan:No min balance required. Chime card on-time payment history may have a positive impact on your credit score. Results may vary. See Chime.com for details and applicable terms. I ask you to try to find your passion. I'm a spinner, and you are speaking my language because I constantly have tight hips, and that makes a lot of sense, but I didn't think of how that could connect to or restrict my voice at all.

40:08Caroline Goyder:But I bet you also stretch out because I don't hear it's the balance. It's everything in moderation, isn't it?

40:15Heather Monahan:Well, I mean, that sounds easy, but it isn't always the case in my life.

40:19Caroline Goyder:Yeah, but not with kids. Definitely not. Anything at all sometimes is an achievement when you've got kids.

40:27Heather Monahan:It's so true. With breathing, is it in through the nose, out through the mouth? Or is it in through the nose, out through the nose?

40:36Caroline Goyder:So yoga often teaches in through the nose, out through the nose. In speaking, the big principle is in through the nose, out through the mouth. because mostly the air when we speak comes out through the mouth, not exclusively, you know, an N sound comes down the nose, but in through the nose, out through the mouth is a good way to breathe. It's also really calming and breathing in for four, out for six, in for four, out for eight, in for four, out for 10 is a really good thing to slow your heart rate, calm you down, get you centered. So if you just have time to do that before a speech, lengthen the out breath.

41:14Caroline Goyder:And

41:14Heather Monahan:it really is magic. It's already calming me down right now. I'm totally serious because as you're talking about, and I hope everyone listening is practicing this with their breath right now, because you'll immediately feel a difference in your heart rate and just feel more calm. It's magic.

41:31Caroline Goyder:And we're all so adrenal that just taking a minute to slow your out breath before you walk into an important situation is a game changer. We're just more present. We smile one other's smile. Our voices are more musical. We have good vagal regulation and good nervous system regulation is the key in a stressed out age. We love those people. We remember them. As speakers, we really, we gravitate to them because they make us feel calm.

42:00Heather Monahan:Well, there's something interesting that you shared with me that I would so love for you to dig into. And that's that your an introvert. However, you take the largest stages in the world and have millions of views of your speeches. How do you develop confidence personally and take being an introvert and put that to work for you?

42:23Caroline Goyder:It's funny. Again, I learned from my mistakes. So I was working way back with an actress who was Peter Brooks Titania in Midsummer Night's Dream. She's a very famous activist in the UK and we were running a session and I was introvert but trying to extrovert so I was kind of being loud and high energy and because that's what I thought I should be in a drama school right and she said this is a lot of work for you isn't it and it was quite a harsh bit of feedback at the time and I was a little bit like oh no but I really thought about it. And I thought, yes, I was kind of putting on a mask. It was like the kind of primary school teacher, you know.

43:04Caroline Goyder:And I went away and thought about it. And I thought, if I was going to be myself in that situation, what would I be? And I would be stiller. So now I don't make quite as much fuss, as much energy. I'm able to be more myself. I honor my pauses. I don't feel I have to dance around on stage, I'm okay to be Caroline. I don't have to be Tony Robbins. And I think for introverts, there is something about just embrace the introvert. And of course, Susan Cain, right? Her TED Talk is the model for introverts of what that can be. Because she owns that stage with incredible grace and stillness and calm. And I just say to introverts everywhere, just it's fine not to be Tony Robbins, just be you.

43:53Caroline Goyder:And as long as you are congruent and really polished and clear in what you want to say and passionate about your message, you don't have to be the loudest person in the room. Because often the stillest people are the most compelling.

44:05Heather Monahan:That is so completely true. And I actually have on a piece of paper that sits right next to me, just be you. Yeah. And it's just a reminder that I keep for myself for overthinking sometimes. Oh, how am I going to take it to the next level today? How can I push myself further and better and faster and stronger? But sometimes that answer is just to be me and just to trust myself. And like you said, I don't walk around as fast or as powerfully as Tony Robbins, but I shouldn't try to be junior Tony Robbins, right? I need to be the best version of me. And that answer is just to be you. It's so much easier.

44:43Caroline Goyder:And that's when people's voices open up because they stop pushing, they stop trying. And then And it's like, then you're Cindy Lauper, it's your true colors show up. And so it's that paradox that you will be your best self when you try less hard. And my voice teacher used to always say to me, try less hard, try less hard. And it was find ease and the whole thing opens up. But the world is pushing against ease because we're so overscheduled and there's so many messages and everybody on Instagram is so polished. As you said, just be you.

45:15Heather Monahan:Another example with my son, right? He was having an issue with a speech he was giving. Of course, he does not want to listen to me, which I don't always never get to coach, right? Of course not. Doesn't matter who you are. So and I said, that's fine. I'm going to invest in you, right? Because I wanted to show him you're worth it. You know, I just wanted to go through the whole process of hiring his own coach for a speech. I thought from a confidence standpoint, I thought it was going to help him and it did. And when I was sitting there watching while she was coaching him, he was trying to be very stern and trying to be the total opposite.

45:47Heather Monahan:He's very funny and quirky and making jokes. And she caught it. And just like your speaker coach, she said, one of the best things I like about you when you and I are just talking is this funny little smile and you elevate your left shoulder and you turn your head sideways. And it's adorable and it's powerful and it connects me to you. It makes me like you, Dylan. You're not doing that right now. Why? And he said, because I thought I'm supposed to be acting very professional. And she said, how about this? Why don't you act the way you would normally act if we were just talking, sitting, having a snack together and do your speech like that?

46:25Heather Monahan:And when he did, he was so much more engaging and he even felt that it was super exciting to see.

46:31Caroline Goyder:That's great coaching in action. I have a phrase at the top of my notes on my Mac, which says, what would I do if this were easy? And whenever I get stuck on something, what would I do if this were easy? And it's, and that's the coaching she gave him. You know, what would you do if this were you, if you were you? And it's so powerful.

46:49Heather Monahan:You know, it's funny. That reminds me of that, like, just get in the flow of life and which I find super hard to do. And I try to remind myself, life doesn't have to be hard. It can just be in the flow, but it seems scary to trust that sometimes. And so I think that we've been conditioned, like you're saying from, you know, so much pressure and intensity in our lives that there's gotta be a way I can work harder. at this but it is nice to hear that sometimes it's great just to let go and and make it easy

47:17Caroline Goyder:and I suppose that the paradox to that is great speakers on stage as you know have put lots of work into honing the content and the rehearsal so in the moment they show up they let it be easy but like it's like Roger Federer isn't it ease on a tennis court is not as simple as it looks it comes out of work and then how do you make the work feel easy and feel like fun and I think when the work feels like fun when we enjoy practicing that flow then comes into the performance as well the game is how to make the practice fun that's it that's when you get good how do you make practice fun I guess you do the stuff you love and then you get the coaching to gently persuade you into the areas you don't like working on.

48:06Caroline Goyder:And that's a bit of a dance, isn't it? But I don't believe in forcing anything. I think if you force it, especially in voice terms, it doesn't work. We get stuck. We sometimes need someone to go try this.

48:18Heather Monahan:Well, for everybody out there that is going to want you to coach them, don't you have a new course that's just coming out?

48:23Caroline Goyder:I have spent the last two years of my life learning about the digital course. And we've been creating this course called Master Your Meetings, which I am actually really excited about. And it's a self-paced four module course, which helps you find your gravitas in meetings and presentations. And it's going to be live on my site, carolinegoida.com in spring. And I'm very excited. If you sign up, you get a good discount now. So do sign up.

48:49Heather Monahan:So I will link that in the show notes. And what are people going to get? Is that going to give them that confidence, that quiet, calm confidence that they want to have in meetings?

48:59Caroline Goyder:This is all about taking people from anxiety to authority. It's all about the process that takes you from, oh my God, I have to present to my board to I've got this. I know what I'm talking about. I can speak with authority. And that is what it's all about. It's simple. It's practical. It's a process and anybody can learn it.

49:19Heather Monahan:And everybody needs to, because it doesn't matter if you are on the PTA or you're an executive, there are going to be times where you need to speak and you want people to hear you. You're trying to give a compelling message and get people to be persuaded by your message. And like you said, it all starts with having that confidence to do it.

49:39Caroline Goyder:And it's my belief that when you get the process in the muscle that can take you from anxiety to authority, you've got it for the rest of your life. And it's a game changer. I mean, you and I both know that, that when you can walk on stage and own it, that changes everything.

49:55Heather Monahan:Oh, there's nothing like it. It's such a powerful feeling. Caroline, thank you so much for all the work you're doing. Thank you for your books. I will link to your books, to your TED talk. And of course, to the course guys, definitely check out this course, give yourself that investment in you to really find your confidence in your speech and own your power. Caroline, thank you so much. My total pleasure, Heather. I've loved chatting. Okay, guys, until next week, keep creating your confidence.

50:28Heather Monahan:I couldn't be more excited for what you're going to hear. Start learning and growing. Inevitably, something will happen. No one succeeds alone. You don't stop and look around once in a while. You could miss it. I'm on this journey with me.