Confidence Classic: Unlock Better Habits & Happier Days Using This Self-Awareness Framework with Gretchen Rubin

26:52But if you ask or tell them to do something, they are very likely to resist. And in fact, they often don't like to tell themselves what to do. Like they often don't keep to-do lists. They won't make a spin class at 10 a.m. on Saturday because they think, well, I don't know what I'm going to want to do on Saturday. And just the idea that someone's expecting me to show up is going to annoy me. So their motto is, you can't make me and neither can I. So those are the four. An obliger is the biggest tendency for both men and women. That's the one that the most people belong to. and rebel is a conspicuous tendency, but it is the smallest tendency.

27:26So what were you thinking as you took the quiz? So taking the quiz, I came back a questioner, but listening to you explain it, I believe I'm an obliger. Huh, well, I will say that feeling like you can't categorize yourself or that everything fits you is a sign of questioner. That is often a thing that questioners say because questioners say, well, I would do this in this situation because it makes sense in this situation, but in this other situation, I wouldn't. It's very unusual to be confused between questioner and obliger because those are kind of opposite tendencies. Questioners readily meet inner, but they resist outer, whereas obligers meet outer, but struggle to meet inner.

28:09So why do you think that you're an obliger? Well, just listening to you describe it, you know, when you were explaining someone who loves the accountability of being on a team. No, they don't love the accountability. They just won't do something without accountability. Can you do, if you make up your mind to do something, can you just do it? Can you be like, you know what, I'm gonna start running every day. I'm gonna liken it to the Peloton during quarantine versus me going to a spin class with people there. I did both, but I prefer doing the classroom. How do you feel about New Year's resolutions?

28:43I write them out every year. I mean, I always have a list of goals for the next year. And if I said to you, let's say we worked in an office, imagine yourself working in an office. And if I said, hey, listen, we got this directive, like we're all going to wear button down shirts on Fridays. What would you think? I think it's annoying. But I mean, if we had to do it, I guess I would do it. Maybe you are an obliger. Maybe I am. How bizarre. Well, I mean, it's not bizarre because it is the biggest tendency. So kind of like if I had to take a guess just on the sheer numbers, I always guess obliger because there's a lot of obligers in the world.

29:19But questioner is the second largest. I'm married to a questioner, by the way. How do you feel about like traffic regulations? Like a traffic light? Or like signs on the street telling you when you can park someplace? Much needed. Okay. Maybe you are an obliger because questioners are often like, this is so arbitrary. Why should I drive 65 miles an hour when a bad driver, you know, I don't know. And the thing is about, I mean, what people often say about the tendencies is like one the best or is one more creative or more successful. And you see, I can name you so many people of all the tendencies who are wildly successful and also big losers, because the fact is, it isn't the tendency.

29:58It's how a person works with their tendency. It's understanding yourself and how to set up situations so that you succeed and thrive. And so an obliger who figures out what they need is unstoppable. And same thing with a rebel or a questioner or an upholder. And they can also be very crippled by their tendency, again, like depending on how it fits with other parts of their personality or if they're in the wrong place. Like if you're a questioner and you work in Silicon Valley, well, maybe that's great. Maybe that's rewarded. Maybe that's why you get a promotion. But if you're a questioner in North Korea, well, you're going to learn to keep that shut down because that is not going to work to your advantage.

30:35And so part of it is getting yourself to where you can do your own best work and thrive rather than thinking, well, I wish I were different. It's like, oh, how do I work with my tendency to get myself wherever I want to go? I'm so glad you explained that because when I approached the quiz, I was thinking of it that way. Oh, obviously one of these is the best and I hope I'm that best one versus, you know, some of them might not be the right ones. That's exactly how I was thinking when I was taking the quiz. So thank you for explaining that. And I do also, I love as a former psychology student, I love that idea that we really need to understand ourselves first and foremost in order to take that next step, which is like what you were saying to know what we're going to respond to.

31:21And I also love that idea that I really hadn't thought of before of understanding others in that same way to get what we want. Well, a hundred percent. And that's one of the things where I think the four tendencies is the most valuable is because a lot of times when conflicts arise or like people just being befuddled by other people's seemingly senseless behavior, it's because there's a conflict in tendency. And so here's an example from my own life. I'm an upholder, which means I'm very focused on execution. I'm a self-starter. I don't need supervision. I like to-do lists and calendars. That's the kind of person I am.

31:53And I like to just get things done as I can. And I was working with somebody. She didn't work for me and I didn't work for her, but we like collaborated with an obliger. and it got back to me indirectly that she was very, very annoyed with me because I was emailing her over the weekends. If anybody had said something to me, I'd be like, yeah, I don't care when she answers me. She can organize her work life as she sees fit. If I have an email in my mind, I just want to send it and get it off my plate. But she felt like I was kind of violating work-life balance and that it was really very presumptuous of me.

32:27Now, what does this mean? Do we need to go to HR? Does there have to be an office policy? Do we have to have a big sit down and argue it out? Am I right? Is she right? No, I just found out, oh, she feels this way. I learned how to use delay delivery and outlook. So, you know, every Monday morning, she would get like 10 emails from me, 8 a.m., because I would just have them send at one time. I could write my email, get it off my plate, but I accommodated to her way of working. And it wasn't like one of us was right and one of us was wrong. It was just that we have different ways of approaching work.

32:59And so we just needed to figure out a way to thrive. Here's another example. So one of the funny things about questioners, not all questioners show this, but a lot of questioners do, is they don't like to answer questions. For some reason, they just, they want to ask everybody else questions, but ironically, they don't want to answer questions themselves. And my husband is like this, and it used to just drive me bonkers because I'm like, why can't you just answer a question? You know, I asked you something like, what time are we leaving? Later. What are we having for dinner? Food. I mean, he does that.

33:27And I was like, does he just want to jerk my chain? Like, why is he making me hopping mad instead of just answering me? But then once I realized this is like a questioner thing, it became much less personal for me. It wasn't, he's like this all the time. He's like this at work. He's like this at home. There are many things that are good about being married to a questioner that I really benefit from. I've learned a lot from him. This is sort of annoying, but now that I understand it, I always just say why. I'm like, what time are we leaving? Because I'm wondering if I have time to go to the gym.

33:54What time are we eating dinner? because I'm wondering if I should go ahead and have a snack or if we're going to be eating soon. Like, as long as I explain why I need to know something, he'll answer me, but he won't just do it because I ask him. And again, it might be slightly annoying, but it's not a reflection on our relationship. He's not doing it to annoy me. It's just the way he is. And so I can set up our interactions in a way that I get what I want and I don't annoy him with what he feels like are just like a stream of senseless questions.

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38:00And that's a big takeaway that I got from your work is don't focus on changing the other person. Focus on knowing who you are, understanding who they are, and then deploying the right tactics to get the result that you want. Oh, 100%. And often like it's better to change the situation or the surroundings than it is to try to think about the person. My favorite example, and I wrote about this in my book, The Happiness Project, was this couple that like, you know, it was sort of the stereotypical thing where she was neat and her husband was messy and he was leaving like his socks on the floor or whatever, just, you know, like a sitcom.

38:33And so, you know, it was escalating. It was getting worse. They went to couples therapy. And then they finally realized, you know, for the money that we're spending on couples therapy, we could just have somebody clean our house once a week. and so they did it's like okay problem solved nobody has to change it's like okay that's the solution now not everybody can afford to throw money at a problem like that but again it's sort of like or somebody was telling me how his wife could never find her keys and it drove him crazy and they had like the key hook you're supposed to put your keys on the key hook why can't you do it why can't a normal ordinary adult person put their keys away in the same place every time they walk in the house in the morning everybody was late because they had to run around find the keys oh oh, the keys, why are they in the fridge, all this.

39:14And then it turns out there's this thing called, I think it's called tile or tiles. It's like a little thing that you put on your keychain or on anything that you might lose. And then you can use Bluetooth to locate it, just the way you use your Apple Watch to find your Apple phone. It just beeps until you find it. So it's like, okay, put your keys wherever you want. And then we'll just find it because it's got this device attached to it now. So again, it's like there's a solution that doesn't require someone to have like fundamental change because often, I don't know if you've noticed, people don't cooperate the way we wish they would, no matter how well argued our pleas.

39:50That is so true. And especially now during these tense times that we live in, it just feels like people are on edge. They're not taking the extra moment to analyze or understand the other person. That's why having this knowledge right now is so beneficial to anyone that will take a little bit of time to dive into it. Well, and it's interesting that you say that at this time, because I think a lot of people's habits are disrupted. And so people who might've had a good habit that they kept for years, like now it's been kind of wiped away. I write about this in my book, Better Than Before, which is all about habit change, like how you can have a clean slate for better or for worse.

40:25Sometimes it gets rid of a bad habit, like you move and then it's easier to quit smoking. But sometimes it wipes away a good habit. Like now that you're not going to the office, you're not going to the gym because you used to always go after work. And now that you're not going to work, you sort of don't have that prompt. The way the tendencies can come up with this is obligers will often, even if they don't consciously realize that they need accountability, they often sort of figure out that they need accountability. And so they might say to a partner or roommate or a family member, hey, let's go running every morning together.

40:54Or will you check up on me and ask me if I've exercised? And someone like a questioner or an upholder might say, I don't want to be your babysitter. If you want to exercise, that's great. If you don't want to exercise, it's not for me to tell you what to do. But an obliger needs accountability. And so they're asking for accountability. So now I'm much more aware when people ask me for accountability, even if I can't provide it, I'm like, okay, let's figure out how you can get the accountability so you can follow through with whatever you want. It's burdensome sometimes to provide accountability, but there are so many ways you can do it.

41:25There are so many imaginative, crazy ways that obligers have come up with accountability. But sometimes you see that people will be asking the people around them for certain kinds of support, but because of their tendency, they don't understand why that support is necessary. So they don't play a role, even though that role would be very welcome. You're so right to making note that things have, habits have changed because our life has changed over the last year. Even for me, when I was taking the quiz and reading about the tendencies, I was thinking, you know, just leaving your apartment and going out to an event is holding you accountable and how you look in which affects working out, which affects your diet, which affects your sleep.

42:07Like there's this whole showering, showering. It's great. It's crazy. But I wasn't thinking of it that way until I really started reading about these tendencies and just thinking that there were accountability measures that were in place previously that are no longer there. And it really does change our habits so much. Well, I mean, in your writer, one thing that you see with writers is like, you might have a writer who is very productive and has no problem sitting out down and working when they're like working at a magazine or a newspaper or something like that, where they have an editor and deadlines and like a team and like they have to like stay on track because that's accountability.

42:47But sometimes if it's an obliger and then they go off and they're like, oh, I'm on book leave or I'm going to quit my job and go write a novel, then they don't have that accountability and they stall out and they think, oh, I have writer's block. But I always say to people, I don't think you have writer's block. I think you have an accountability problem. This comes up a lot with people writing their PhDs. When I was writing better than before, I heard from so many people struggling to write a PhD because a lot of people just have a hard time. It's a long, long process. You're sort of off on your own to more or less extent, depending on what your field is.

43:17And I think a lot of them really need accountability. And so it's like, once you realize like, oh, that's what my problem is, it isn't some kind of like intellectual block. It's that I feel like no one's checking up on me. then you can put systems into place. Like I know people who met that who met once a month for years and they were all in different disciplines and they never read each other's work but they had to say like this is how much I've written this is how many chapters so that they felt like somebody was paying attention to whether they were getting anything done. Do you think the same goes for perfectionists?

43:50Is that just a result or a cover for a lack of accountability in delivering something? No, you know, perfectionism, I think, isn't about standards. It's about anxiety. It's not about executing something or finishing something. It's about anxiety about the product. And so sometimes people are like, well, I'm such a perfectionist. I need to learn to lower my standards. Well, that's not going to help. What you need to work on is the anxiety around it. Like for me, like one of the things I always say is like, enjoy the fun of failure. If I'm not failing, I'm not trying hard enough. I really try to push myself to embrace failure or, you know, or to really be very mindful of the fact that whatever I'm working on is not worth the time to get it to 100%.

44:31Like I need to get it to 85 % and then move on or whatever it is. So you want to work on the anxiety. Where do you push yourself to go now after you've accomplished so much? That must be hard for you to try to find things to fail at. Oh, no. My gosh, I fail at things all the time. No, no, that is not hard. I do not find that challenging. Oh, I have so many, I have like thousands of pages of things that have never been published. I have all kinds of like bits and bobs online of like projects that failed. I have things I'm still working on that I may never finish. Like I got plenty to fail about.

45:07The thing is though, from the outside, you don't see other people's failures as nearly as clearly as you see their successes. So I think that we often think that people, other people have a better hit rate than we do because we're not paying attention to all the things they do that everybody ignored and like got kicked under the sofa after a year or two. It's so true. When you Google someone and nothing is showing up about a failure is all you're seeing is hit after hit for sure. Yeah. Well, like, like for me, a lot of people think the happiness project is my first book. It was my fourth book.

45:37Wow. And you know, so I was a writer for 10 years before I was an overnight sensation. And some of those books did well on their own terms. And some didn't, some didn't do well at all. As they say, they did not find their audience. That's what your editor tells you. You know what I mean? But nobody pays attention to that. As far as they know, here I come, like right out of the gate with some number one. It's like, no, that's how it seems to you because you're not, why would you be paying attention to me? But boy, I could show you a long list of stuff. Plus I have three bad novels that I've never published.

46:08I mean, I got all kinds of stuff. I love that. Thank you for sharing that with us. One of the things that you talk about that I'm hoping you can explain a little bit more on, because I don't know if I understand it exactly, was it's hard to change thoughts, but it's easier to change outward actions. And I wonder if I'm confusing it or understanding it, is that like fake it till you make it? I was thinking of it slightly different. I agree with fake it till you make it mostly, but what I think about is like people, they can say things like, like things that I rare, I almost never pay any attention to trying to change or things like, I want to be more optimistic.

46:46I'm like, I don't even, how would you do that? Like, or whatever. Or like, I want to be more friendly. I always focus on direct actions that are like very concrete and like are objectively true or not true in the world. Like I want to walk 20 minutes outside every day, or I want to go out in the sunshine, or I want to join a book group, or I want to kiss my husband every morning and every night, or I want to say, give a warm hello and goodbye every time somebody comes and goes from the apartment. instead of like showing more love or like being more loving, I think like, how can I have more loving actions?

47:18And what's true is that feelings tend to follow actions. So by changing your actions, you tend to change your feelings. So if you act energetic, you feel more energetic. If you act more friendly, you feel more friendly. That's a psychological phenomenon that's true. And it's also much more within our control. And one thing that I really take issue with is like emphasis on motivation. To me, motivation is a very confusing word because it kind of conflates the idea of wanting an outcome very badly and being willing to take action in pursuit of that goal. Because somebody could be like, I'm so motivated to lose weight this year.

47:53Well, I'm like, do you desperately want to lose weight? Or do you mean that you are actually willing to do something about that? So I would say, don't expect to be motivated by motivation. Focus on action. What actions will you take? Okay, I'm going to stop eating fast food. I'm going to quit sugar. I'm going to cook my own dinner every night. Whatever you would say. And that you can tell. But like, I'm going to be really motivated for my health this year. It's like, you're in bed at night. You're like, did I do anything? Like, did I keep that goal? I don't even know. Like, what does that even mean?

48:25So that's why I think it's just much easier to focus on very, very concrete, measurable actions. Yeah, that reminds me of smart goals, specific, measurable, attainable, realistic, timely, and getting very, very specific with the detail. Just like you said, I mean, that's great advice. What other things do you suggest people to do that are working on their New Year's resolutions right now? Well, one is I think there's sort of a tendency, and I think people who write about this and talk about it kind of foster this impression as well, that there's a best way or there's a right way. So if you want to exercise, you should get up first thing and do it like before you start your workday, get it done.

49:03And there's a million reasons why that's a good idea. Okay, that's a good idea if you're a morning person. But a big percentage of the population are night people. And that's largely a function of genetics and a function of age. and night people are just more energetic, creative, and productive later in the day. And so the idea that there's a best way to do it, it's best for some people, but that doesn't necessarily mean it would be best for you. And so I think a lot of times people try things and they get discouraged because they haven't set it up in the way that's right for them. Another example, and you see this in the workplace, not so much now with COVID, but when we were all working in the same place, especially in open office, there's abundance lovers and simplicity lovers and simplicity lovers like clean desk, clean shelves, not a lot going on on the walls, abundance lovers like profusion and choice and collections and buzz.

49:50And if you have a boss who walks around saying things like a cluttered desk means a cluttered mind, we're going to have a clean desk policy in this office. It's like, well, that might work for you because you're a simplicity lover. But what about an abundance lover? Or like, I remember I went to some big tech company and they're like, we decorated for Halloween and all their pods were like so decorated. And I was like, this is cute, but I couldn't work here because there's just too much in my face, too much visual noise for me. I wouldn't be able to handle it. But for them, clearly it seemed like fun and festive and was working for their productivity.

50:22So I think I would say, especially if you failed, if you have a resolution that you've tried in the past and you haven't succeeded, think about, is there a different way that I could set this up? Like if I'm trying to go running on my own, maybe I should take a class or run with a friend. I need that accountability. Maybe I'm a rebel. Maybe people keep saying, hey, Gretchen, you should sign up for a class. You should sign up for a class. And every time I sign up, then I don't want to go. Maybe I should focus on my rebel powers and be like, I'm an athlete. I love using my body. I always have. I love to feel the air in my face and go out in nature.

50:56I feel like we're taking a bike ride or a run or a walk every day. That's what I love. And they might want to trap me behind a computer screen, but they can't chain me to this chair? Like, I'm going to go out every day because that's what I want. That works for a rebel. But if your well-meaning best friend keeps trying to get you to sign up for her spin class, well, that's not going to work for you because you don't want that feeling of being stuck, maybe, by the calendar. So if there's an important resolution and you're feeling discouraged, think about how you might tinker with it and approach it in a different way that might work better for you.

51:29And a great hint is always to look back in your past. Is there a time in your past when you did succeed with this resolution, when you were exercising regularly or reading a lot or spending more time with friends or getting more sleep. Because it may be that something in your past will offer clues about how you can do it more successfully in the future. So in Better Than Before, I talk about the 21 strategies that people can use to keep resolution and make habits. And what you see is that some strategies work really well for some people, but not for others. And so you're gonna have much better success if you pick and choose the strategies that really resonate for you, because we all sort of have our different combination that we prefer to use.

52:11Meet a different guest each week.

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53:35I ask you to try to find your passion. So you mentioned, you know, an office situation and cluttered desks. It makes me think of outer order, inner calm. Can you share with us a little bit about that new book? Well, you know, I've been studying happiness and human nature for years. And one thing that always struck me, and I don't know if you feel this way, is the degree to which I feel like outer order contributes to inner calm. And I felt like it was very disproportionate, like kind of the buzz I would get from creating order and getting rid of stuff and establishing, you know, order in my environment.

54:12But I found that over and over, people would tell me that they felt the same way. Like a friend of mine said, I finally cleaned out my fridge and now I know I can switch careers. I was like, I know what you mean. And so many people, when I would say, what resolution has done the most for your happiness? The thing that people most often said, although this is not the most significant thing you could do for your happiness, the thing that people most often said was make my bed. That that's like the little thing that would start me off right at my day. And so I just became very curious to sort of explore the connection between outer order and inner calm.

54:44So I decided to kind of write a little book about why there was that connection and then also like fill it full of all these kind of tips and hacks for how to create outer order. Because even for people who love it, it can be hard to maintain because it's sort of like everything in our life is we're constantly being washed over with stuff that we have to manage. Yeah, especially as we're home more now, keeping things orderly has become much more challenging. but I will tell you before reading your work, I was not going to add specifically, make sure that the house is clean every night before I go to bed or anything like that.

55:21And I'm going to now just for that peace of mind that yeah, of course it's going to make you feel more at ease, just less stress around you. Well, and I'll tell you that like 10 or 20 minute tidy up at the end of the day is very restful. And I think it's good preparation for sleep because you're sort of walking around. I think it's just kind of like putting things away. It's just kind of like preparing your body and your mind for like, we're just settling in like a lot of people now, especially because of all the anxiety or having trouble sleeping. I think this is a good thing to do before bed, both because it makes it nicer to wake up, as you say, to kind of greet the day with energy and possibility, but it's also a good way to wind down because it's sort of quiet and it just has that quality of sort of putting things into place in a way that I think is very soothing.

56:09It's a good bedtime ritual. Absolutely. It's going into my new ritual. So thank you for that one. Good. You mentioned that when I was asking you about outer order, you said, well, making your bed is impactful, but it's not the most significant thing you can do for your happiness. What is the most significant thing people can do? Well, you know, ancient philosophers and contemporary scientists would agree on this, And that is it's relationships that relationships are the key to a happy life. And when you look at the people who are happy, they're the ones that have thriving relationships. We need intimate, enduring bonds.

56:45We need to be able to confide. We need to be able to get support. And just as important for happiness, we need to be able to give support. We need to feel like we belong. And so anything that you can do that would either deepen your existing relationships or broaden your relationships to new people is something that will tend to make you happier. And I use this all the time when I'm thinking about whether I should or shouldn't do something. Like again, like when we can all travel and stuff, like I'd be like, should I go to my college reunion? Yes, if I can, I should go. You know, it's like, is it worth the time and the energy?

57:18Like it's gonna be a hassle. It's like, but I'll see all these old friends. Like this is a wonderful opportunity to deepen my relationships to people who I've known for a long time. Should I make an effort to organize that Zoom call for my friends from high school? Yes, I should. Should I email somebody about, hey, do you want to like go out for coffee? Even though it feels kind of awkward because I don't really know them, but it seems like maybe there's a possible friendship there. Yes, I should. It's worth the energy and the time to do it because if I make a new friend, that's a real happiness boost.

57:46So anything that goes to relationships. And I mean, and speaking of COVID, I mean, I think people are more aware of this than ever because again, it's been very disruptive to our relationships. And I think it's really made people more aware than ever of how much our happiness depends on our feeling of connection with others. I couldn't agree more. And I'll tell you, I had the opportunity over the past year where we're seeing very, you know, some very seldom do we see people. And I had a good friend of mine come and stay with us for 10 days. And it was so exciting in that strange way that when you have something that you love taken away from you, spending time with people, and suddenly you get it back, you feel so enormously grateful for it.

58:28I know this friend of mine called it the Jane, she said, we're going back to Jane Austen times where, you know, like people would come for two months because she's single. And so she's like, I'm going to stay with my friend in Indiana for like two months. And then she kind of goes somewhere, you know, because she'll just stay such a long time. And I was like, yeah, it's like the old ways, but it's great. Yeah, you really do, you treasure it. Funny, I did a Zoom thing and I felt like I needed to put on a mask. And then I'm like, wait, I don't have to put on a mask. You people are virtual, but I was so used to seeing people that way.

58:58Now I felt naked. That is for sure. One other thing I wanted to ask you about around getting to know yourself, and I had seen a speech that you had given where you brought this up, was the difference between abstainers or moderators. I thought that was super impactful because I never even thought about that for myself. Yeah, maybe this is good for New Year's resolutions because a lot of New Year's resolutions have to do about resisting temptation. So that is what this is looking at. It's how do you most successfully resist a strong temptation? Not a weak temptation, a strong temptation. And what I realized is that many people are abstainers like me.

59:35And that means that we're kind of all or nothing people. We can have none pretty easily, or we can have a lot, but we can't have a little bit. So like when it comes to sweets, I can have no thin mint cookies, or I can have a pack of, you know, a sleeve of thin mint cookies. I can't have one thin mint cookie. I can't have half a dish of ice cream. I can't have like a bite of brownie. The minute I get it in my mouth, I'm like, I want more, more, more, more, more, but I can have none pretty easily. It doesn't really bother me to have none, but then there are moderators and moderators get kind of panicky and rebellious if they're told they can't have any.

1:00:10So they do better when they have a little bit or when they have something sometimes. And this explains the people who are like, I just keep a bar of fine chocolate in my desk and every day or so I have one square of fine chocolate and that's all I need. Or, you know, they have a few French fries or they have French fries sometimes. And the fact is abstainers and moderators will all often tell each other that they're doing it wrong. So as an abstainer, I want to say to moderators, why don't you just go cold turkey? Why do you keep breaking your rules for yourself? Like just, it's not worth fussing with, just, just give it up.

1:00:40And then moderators say to me, it's not healthy to be so rigid. You shouldn't demonize certain food. You should learn to live a little bit. It's not healthy to just say no to all these things. And I'm like, why not? I mean, it's just easier for me. And then people say, oh, well, you're an upstater because you have such strong willpower. I'm like, no, I don't have the willpower to have a little. It takes less willpower for me to have none. And I think a lot of people kind of have been told that they should be moderate. But then when they have a little bit, they can't stop. But then when you say to them, well, you could have none, it's like a huge relief to them because they're like, oh, I could have none.

1:01:19Once they try it, it works for them. So again, it's not that one person's right and one person's wrong. It's just that different people do better in different ways. And the fact that somebody does it differently from you doesn't mean they're wrong or that you need to convince them to do what works for you because it could be very well different. Now, how about you? Are you a moderator or an abstainer? As I'm listening to you talk. I definitely am an abstainer, but my whole life I've tried, like you were saying, I've tried to be, I thought that was the right way to be a moderator. Yeah. It's, I mean, thing is for true moderators, it's easy.

1:01:52And so they're, they keep saying to people, just have a little bit like, what's your problem? And they don't understand that for abstainers, that's like terrible advice. I think you were telling a story of a woman who lost 70 pounds by switching to becoming an abstainer. Oh, I mean, I've known countless people. I hear from people all the time, because I think people are like you, they sort of don't know that they're allowed to do that. And see, I think also nutritionists and people like that tend to be moderators because they have like this easy, moderate relationship with whatever their temptation is.

1:02:20They think that would work for everyone. They think it's their system that works, not realizing it's the system plus the personality. But the thing is like, I can be a moderator about wine because I don't really care about wine. I can have half a glass of wine all day long, But I have a friend who's like, it's no wine or four glasses of wine. You can't have half a glass of wine. And it bugs her to just see it. And so you just have to say, well, what works for you? And if one thing isn't working, you might try the other way because you'll learn something about yourself. And sometimes people, like my sister, for her French fries are her kryptonite.

1:02:55And it matters, especially because she's a type one diabetic. So she doesn't want to be an, I abstain from just, you wouldn't believe what I abstain from. I'm one of those like crazy low carb people that you read about. I abstain from a lot and I love it. It's like my hobby. She doesn't want to abstain from all that, but she just decided I'm going to give up French fries because French fries are my kryptonite. I just, I'm going to give them up. And I remember saying to her, well, how do you feel about giving up French fries? And she said, well, now I realize I'm free from French fries. And I thought, yeah, she's free from French fries.

1:03:25So now they have no hold on her anymore because before she was always like, I want, I want, I want, I want more, more, more, more French fries. It's like sometimes it's easier to just say, yeah, enough with the French fries. Somebody said to me, but doesn't it make you sad not to eat a brownie? I'm like, not eating a brownie makes me happier than any brownie ever could for myself. But I'm just saying it's a possibility that a lot of people haven't considered. I'm not saying it's for everyone, but like you, maybe there's something you just are like, you know what, I'm just not gonna have that. Just take it off the table.

1:03:55Might be a lot easier for you than trying to manage the temptation. Absolutely. And it just goes back to that self-awareness and just realizing and noticing, which is something that I had never thought of before. So thank you so much for teaching us this, Gretchen, giving us the opportunity to get to know ourselves better and get to know others better, too. Well, it's been so fun talking to you. Thank you so much. Well, thank you for being here, Gretchen. Thank you for all your work. Please keep up your amazing work. And I will continue to be your student and look forward to the next time that we can speak again.

1:04:27Oh, me too. Thank you. Hold tight. We'll be right back.

1:04:33I hope you enjoyed meeting Gretchen as much as I did. Again, back to proximity is power. I'm so grateful to be in that conversation with her. And when she called me an author, I about fell out of my chair. She sold 3.5 million copies of her books. Hello. This is goals. This is where I'm headed. This is where I'm going. Get in proximity of people that are light years ahead of you so you can start to elevate yourself, challenge yourself to grow and really push yourself to that next level. So I received an upsetting message on LinkedIn I wanna share with you in my Q &A. Hey Heather, I'm seeking counsel as a boss of blah, blah, blah, blah.

1:05:13Won't get into that. I find myself making the tough decisions for other individuals and people hiding behind me and my name. With that said, I feel like a bad guy all the time and I'm starting to turn into a negative person even though I wasn't. I'm not a negative person. I hate this. I'm not happy at work. I have X amount of time left on my contract. Throughout the day, I smile, but everyone who walks in, I find myself wrapped up in a negative conversation with them. And then it bleeds into my personal life. Have you dealt with this or do you have advice? Here's the thing. It's crystal clear to me.

1:05:43This person needs to quit their job. Either you're in the wrong role. You're in a toxic environment. You don't like the job that you're doing and what you're responsible for. But bottom line is you just outlined to me, you are not happy. And we're here today and we're talking about happiness and how important it is in life and we're living in tough times, we've got to find ways to focus on making our lives better, happier and making ourselves more fulfilled. That man needs to quit his job. And I actually told him that in the message and he wrote back agreed. So he knew he needed to do it just because you know you need to do something doesn't make it easy.

1:06:17It can be very simple to know what to do, but it can be more difficult to actually pull the trigger and get yourself going. So hold yourself accountable, get around people that are far ahead of you and that are going to stretch you to grow. Don't sit back and play small and try to hide from the problem. It will only make it worse. Believe me, I'm speaking with a lot of experience on this one, having stayed in a bad situation for 14 years. You know, had I pulled that trigger sooner, I'd be light years ahead of where I am now. And I want you to be light years ahead of where you want to go. So take action.

1:06:56Sitting around anymore does not work. Give yourself a deadline. New Year's is the time to do it. We're in the window. Hold yourself accountable and challenge yourself. And I am going to be launching a new challenge for you. I'm going to be posting all over social media. And always, you can find everything and anything on my website, heathermonahan.com. If you need to be held accountable, you need to be challenged and you need to get into proximity of people that are pushing themselves. Go to my website, heathermonahan.com. You can sign up for one-on-one coaching and I am launching a new challenge for 2021.

1:07:30So get ready to grow because you know, I'm growing with you. And until next week, if you could please rate the show, subscribe and review and share it on social, I will always repost what you post. thanking you and major shout out for an amazing and interesting 2020. Let's flip the page and get our goals out there. Specific, measurable, attainable, realistic, and timely for next year, 2021. We're coming for you until next week. Keep creating your confidence. You know, I'll be right there with you.

1:08:20I'm on this journey with me.