557 - Finding Your Scene, IRL Creativity, the Hopeful Return of Indie / DIY with Hanif Abdurraqib

28:15One, it was cool to see these guys from St. Louis who were like deeply, I remember, I had not been to St. Louis when say Country Grammar came out, but I was there like two years after. And I remember driving through St. Louis and being like, this does feel exactly like the Country Grammar music video. And it was kind of cool to have these guys who were animating this place in the same way that like Outkast animated Atlanta for me in the early mid-90s where they made Atlanta feel like this mystical, magical, otherworldly place. And that colored my response to it when I first went there. And it was really beautiful in the same way that like UGK did that for me with Texas, parts of Texas, Houston, swiftly.

28:57Yeah. You know, Murphy Lee is interesting because there's a story, and I don't know how accurate this is, but, you know, the St. Lunatics were a thing before Country Grammar came out. Right. You know, and there's this line. Like Nelly was in that group. Nelly was like in the group. Yeah. And then what happened was. Recording and. Yeah. They have a record. They have a mixtape called Who's the Boss that came out in 90, gosh, eight, maybe. and what happened as so happens in collectives is like someone plucked one out and said i think you're going to be the star and i i don't know in what the hook gonna be murphy lee like a single from 2004 yeah he has that line in the second verse it's like we were broke with no deal but nobody could tell so we did what we had to do for country grammar to sell which is like and i've heard the thing of murphy lee was supposed to be the one oh really that was He was going to be plucked out of the butt.

29:54But Nelly, you know, it was like this guy will make y 'all money. He will be the one. And the agreement is the agreement, right? Country Grammar gets big. He brings them along and they come out with Free City. But I think it really hindered Murphy Lee's career. Yeah, seems like it. Because his album was fine. And, you know, I know he was on like Shake Your Tail Feather and like hits and all that. But he's a very good rapper. Yeah. And I don't think – he's got a lot of charisma. A ton of charisma. Yeah, interesting guy. Nelly's a better hit maker maybe. Right. But you see that. This happens all the time where a rapper gets big and then they bring their crew along.

30:36And then you realize in the crew that there's a better rapper than the rapper who got big. Think about like Lloyd Banks. Lloyd Banks is, I think, significantly better rapper than 50 Cent but maybe not as – he doesn't have the narrative. He doesn't have the charisma. He doesn't have the kind of particularly early career 50 Cent, this magnetism that made him almost like a rap supervillain, you know, before it got corny. But that's kind of the way it goes. So I like that you brought up St. Louis and Atlanta and all this, too, because the reason I wanted to go this angle is we have all these creatives listening to the show.

31:11And I think it took me a long time to – I'm not from Ohio, but I've lived here longer than I've lived anywhere else. I've lived here for 12 years. But I'm, and I'm from the Midwest. I'm from Indiana. But it took me a long time to like own being Midwestern. And like, it took me like, I, do you know the band Y? Oh, of course. Okay. So I'm a huge Y fan. I've done a bunch of merch for them and kind of became friends with them over time. And they did my, a little, we had a segment of their song for the intro of the show from early days, but it took me until hearing Jack Antonoff do Mike Birbiglia's theme song for his podcast would be like, oh, this sounds right because they're owning the New Jersey thing.

31:55They're owning where they're from. And then that's when I licensed like 10 songs. And so now it's all Y music on the show and I'm just like all in. And I feel like you are very well known for being a Columbus writer. And I think all of this is just interesting and encouraging to all these artists throughout the world that are listening and seeing what's happening on the internet and wanting to be a part of that rather than wanting to be who they are and where they came from. And so I'm just curious if you, I'm just, I'm curious if you have thought about what makes you a Columbus writer and an Ohio writer, a Midwestern writer.

32:38I mean, I know you have but um but how do you think about what that means and like how your context feeds into the scene that you'd work in because are you also do you feel connected to other writers in the area and yeah like how did you just instinctively know to kind of root yourself in columbus when i don't know how you feel but columbus doesn't people don't necessarily know that it is a scene or has a vibe or does that make sense sure yeah well i will say it's funny you know i was a lonely kid who who got lost on the internet at a different time and it was freeing and informative for me and a thing that bums me out now is that to be young and be lost on the internet now is certainly a lot more treacherous yeah different thing not that it was the safest haven in the world when I was a team.

33:33Our parents didn't know what was on the internet either. So we had this other thing going on, yeah. But I do remember, like I was on message boards and I remember, you know, I was such a, and remain such a technical music nerd type that I was on this record collector's message board when I was like 15. And I would lie about my age. I think I told people I was like 45, you know, because I didn't, I wanted them to take me seriously. And so there is a way that being on the internet informed my living as a young person that I think that informed my living in healthy ways. And informed my dreaming and my imagination.

34:09And the thing that bums me out now is that, like, that is not happening. I work with young writers and I'm around young people. And I can say for a fact it's just not happening in the same way. Yeah. Now, in terms of Columbus, you know, I grew up on the east side of Columbus, situated in between Bexley and Whitehall neighborhood that wasn't the best, somewhat neglected. And my friends and I would ride our bikes. We couldn't really go past the borders of our neighborhood. So we couldn't go into Bexley. And I remember distinctly one of my friend's parents warning us about going into Bexley, right?

34:43And warning us about going too far into Whitehall. Like your parents wouldn't let you go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know? And it was interesting to me. As I got older, I started playing soccer, and I played club soccer with some kids from Bexley, and they were like, oh, our parents wouldn't let us cross Livingston Avenue to come through. So they were talking about their parents being afraid to let us let them come in our neighborhood. And it was interesting, because I was like, I think we were more afraid of what is happening there than we were here. And it made me think about how I lived in this box that because I lived in it and because people I loved were in it, it became a kingdom of sorts.

35:19And I never knew until I was much older, or I had an instinct about it, but I never knew until I was much older that the world outside of my kingdom looked upon that kingdom differently than I did. Right. And that felt like a real betrayal in a way. I remember feeling really enraged by that reality, not even on some, like, how dare you talk about my people this way, but in a way where I felt to my core that this was a place that defined me and the people in it defined me. And they were noble people and worthy of close attention and affection. And as I got older and began writing, I really committed myself to building a language around returning some dignity to this place, specifically East Columbus.

36:09Yeah. Because I saw it as a very, and I still see it as a very dignified place filled with very dignified people. And I just remember that initial rage that I felt when I realized that someone who was on the outside of this was saying like, my parents said we can't go there because it's not safe. Where the flip side of that, my parents would say, look at that nice neighborhood you would be a target there that's a different kind of math yeah yeah and so um i think i of course feel kinship you know i really am proud to be from east columbus because there's a lineage of artists who come out of east columbus who i'm so honored to be you know in com in just eternal conversation with being amina robinson wal neal smoky you know Scott Woods, who's my first and earliest and still present mentor, Richard Duart Brown.

37:11I mean, like, these are people who have used the east side of Columbus as a canvas and have expanded it and who I think teach me new ways to honor it in their work. And so, yeah, I mean, I think so much of a real downside, another downside to any kind of monoculture or a monochromatic way of life is that the places people live are treated increasingly as disposable. Now, I lived in a neighborhood and a lot of people grew up in neighborhoods where they got to watch gentrification happen all around them, right? And that's one thing. And it's another thing to say, we're just going to put up the same kind of condo everywhere.

38:02The same kind of apartment everywhere. What part of Indiana are you from? You're from Indianapolis? Just south of Indy. I was in Indianapolis recently. And I was like, I've been to Indianapolis really. My brother lives there. My niece played basketball out there. I was there a lot. And I went out there maybe for the first time in a year, a few weeks ago, last month maybe. And I was like, it's a bunch of condos. They all look the same. And I go to a lot of cities and I'm like, this can't be the way that people are forced to live because all of the defining entities that make a place individualized for a young person who wants to dream cannot be stripped down to this monochromatic gray high rise type of thing.

38:42And so I really think that the work of, I can't say what the work of all creatives is, but at least the work of my mission, and I think the mission of artists I love, is a mission of archival to say, I'm going to create things. So Amina Robinson was so great at this, to say, I'm going to create things that remind you the place where your two feet are were not always like, it was not always like this. this was a different place in a different time. And that place was loved by really dignified people who tried to keep it the same and who tried to preserve it for you. And the fact that they could not, the fact that we're standing in front of a gray condom now is not a failure of those dignified people.

39:23It's a failure of the imagination of a city or it's a failure of an imagination of a government. It's a failure of the imagination of this industry of cities building for populations that don't exist and doing it at the expense of populations that are already there. And if there's anything creatives can do it is to really sound the alarm of archive and say what you see is not always what it was.

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41:22You deserve mental health care that works with you, not against your budget. I could really use your help. Now, as a rule, I try to give way, way more on this show than I take, but every once in a while, I have an ask. I think it's been about three years since my last big ask when we launched me and Sophie's book, Invisible Things, and now its companion Mysterious Things is on its way and we could really, really use your help by buying a book and spreading the word. Pre-orders can make or break a book's success. If you can launch a book with momentum, it has a chance to get into people's hands and we really, really wanna get this book into kids' hands because it was written to ignite kids' curiosity, to get them curious about our mysterious universe and I don't know about you, but I am hoping this next generation is curious, open, full of wonder, and engaged and excited about living life on this planet.

42:20If you pre-order from our local bookshop, Birdie Books, you can get a copy that is signed by me and Sophie. There's also a bunch of links to everywhere else. You can get the book at invisiblethings.co. And by the way, I'm doing some talks to virtual groups, schools, companies, and conferences in exchange for what's called a pre-order book buy, aka buying copies for your group or the attendees. So if you've ever wanted to book me to speak, this is the least expensive it'll ever be. Write to me at hi at andyjpizza.com and I can walk you through how that works. If you love my art, this is one of my favorite collections of paintings that I've ever made.

42:58If you loved invisible things, you're gonna love mysterious things. And if you have children, nieces, nephews, students, or friends with kids in your life, ignite their curiosity with mysterious things, pre-order at invisiblethings.co or click the link in the show notes. Thank you so much for your help. We really, really, really appreciate it.

43:21One of the reasons we, it's not one of the reasons we live in Columbus, but it was one of the little like, try not to put too much weight into synchronicity, but I am kind of persuaded that way. When my wife and I, who's British, who I met living over there, went on our first date. she brought a book that she just got from the library she's a big fan of this textile artist because she's a textile artist my wife is and um she brought this book to her first date and it was a book um an amina robinson book yeah and she was just showing me and like geeking out about it and when we came to visit here i was doing a talk at ccad um she went over with the kids to the cma and that was the same book that they had right at the front desk and uh we were like all right that's you know, there was like 10 other reasons, but that was one, that was one, um, an amazing artist and, uh, very, very inspiring and has done all kinds of things in this city.

44:16Um, so, uh, I wanted to ask, did you, did you always feel this kind of dedication to Columbus and where you're from and, and mixing that with your work? Or was there a time where you didn't feel like that? Cause I know you haven't always lived here. I lived in New Haven for two years yet, but I, I didn't know any other way to be, you know, uh, my earliest writing would be like, how did you get your start? It's funny growing up in the punk scene, particularly in the early aughts, mid aughts, zines were like, I know zines have made a really robust comeback and have been, I think the things happening with zines right now, it's actually really heartening and very cool for me.

45:00I went to a zine fest recently in LA and I was like, this is what, so happy to have this now. And if I had this like 20 years ago, it'd be mind blowing. Because when I was coming up, there were zines, but not a lot of people wanted to write in them. They were mainly, at least in the Midwest punk scene that I was on, visual experiences. Like art, photography, stuff like that. Yeah, which also great. But I was like, gosh, you know, the interesting thing that I enjoyed about being on the Midwest punk scene back then is that a lot of these scenes were interconnected. You know, my punk's friends in Detroit were like portals to that city.

45:36And then my punk friends in Chicago. And we would sometimes converge in the same place. And it seemed to me that someone had to do the reporting from where they were, you know, to say this band came to Columbus and you weren't there. But I want to write something that makes you feel like you were there. So that was my earliest foray into writing, which felt like an act of service. Right. It was connected to Columbus. It was connected to the city from the start, right? And it really did feel like an act of service in that I don't know if I would have done it if I couldn't say I want to tell the story of this place I'm at.

46:08So I've always felt that way. I think because of that, my starting point was I'm in this place where something is happening and you're not there. And I want you to believe that it's worth dreaming about arriving to. Do you recognize that it's different than what a lot of other writers do? I don't feel like – I know some writers' place is a huge thing. But, yeah, it just seems unique to you. And it's unique also because, you know, you don't get a lot of people out of Columbus at the level that you are writing right now. So it's just kind of – I guess I ask too because I'm like – I'm trying to think of people listening and thinking of how they might resist if they were from a place like Columbus.

46:52Yeah. Owning that. I feel like in a lot of ways, I see a lot of artists that are trying to like hide where they're from so that they can appear like they're on the coast or in the big cities or whatever. So, yeah, I'm just trying to figure out if there's anything that you could kind of teach us about that. Oh, gosh. Yeah. It's such a highly individualized thing. I mean, everyone's relationship with places is unique. And mine is not without its complications. Right. You know, I've been like activist and organizer type in this city for a long time, since I was like a teenager. And so in many ways, I've spent as much time writing glowingly about this place as I have like in the streets shouting about it.

47:37Yeah, right. And perhaps that is, I think that is a healthy system. Yeah. You know, because my affection for this place is born out of and through an ideal that the city does not live up to. And I believe it can, at least in some ways. I think having some level of displeasure about where you're from is actually propulsive or it can be propulsive. Yeah. That's a good point. So often I think our displeasures kind of outweigh our pursuits of artistic endeavor. And that's what I think about people, or they feel like they cannot physically be in a place and make things. I'm lucky in that I can't, I do make my best work here.

48:19Yeah. I think that's maybe uncommon for a lot of artists I know. Right. And to me that makes sense. Right. I don't know if it'll always be the case, but I hope it is. I want to be here. You know, I'm at a point in my life where, you know, I saw a friend in New York recently and she was like, you know, I love that you're still in Columbus for sure. Why don't you split time somewhere? Right, yeah. And I was like, why would I split time? And she was like, my guy, you're gone half the year anyway. Yeah, right, true, yeah. Which is true. I mean, this year has been a bit heavier on the travel front than normal, but it's May.

48:55We're recording this at the end of May, middle of May. and I've only been home in terms of consecutive weeks two yeah you know and so there's a way that I feel pulled right now for something to ground me somewhere I'm often joking that I would like fewer jobs than just one job yeah Ohio State if you're listening you can hire me to do something yeah I'll stay here more often They got a lot of roles. Yeah. They got all kinds of departments. I could just be like a guy on campus maybe. Probably not. Actually, it's not. I don't know if that would work out. But, you know, I am thinking about ways to ground myself here with some more frequency.

49:37So this is a new thing I'm doing. So I'm ADHD, and I'm just going to do an ADHD round. So it's not necessarily rapid fire. It's just going to be a collection of different things. The first thing I was going to ask you about, do you – so a lot of my work, whether it's picture books or doing storytelling on stage or whatever is analogy and metaphor and that sort of thing. And I know, I was just wondering if you think a lot about how the artist is exploring the space between two things, because you, everything you do seems to be doing that. Like, what do you make of that? Well, for me, I'm not just interested in the space between the two things, but the distance and what exists in the distance between the two of them.

50:19So much of this is my poetic brain, I think, where I'm trying to, one of my favorite poems in history is this poem called Dead Doe by the poet Lucy Brock Broydo, wherein at the beginning of the poem, her and her daughter, the speaker and her daughter are like looking at roadkill, and it looks like a dead deer. And then by the time the poem ends, they realize that they've been looking at two swans. And all of these movements happen in the middle of the poem that transforms the image. And so I'm interested in the transformation of image or the transformation of what I can do in the one lap between one thing and another thing to make the reader and myself, I think, believe that they have been transformed through the witnessing of something else transforming.

51:06That is really the peak of it. It's like a magic trick. You know, I'm obsessed with the thing of, you know, you see a bird and it goes away and then you bring back the bird, but the bird is slightly different. Okay. So are you thinking of that as you're writing your books? You're thinking like, this is the transformation that I'm going to show? Well, I always think that I, the fortunate thing for me is I never know what the transformation is until I start pursuing it. Like writing it? Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of writers don't work this way, but I'm a big time. I just don't believe in putting my will upon language.

51:41I really want to be transformed by the pursuit of language. there's it's like um this weekend was the 60th anniversary of pet sounds beach boys record yeah and what I love about the pet sound sessions where you can hear the making of pet sounds is that Brian Wilson is not really imposing his will on these songs even though these are rigorous highly structured compositions he is just trying as many things as possible to get to a sound that he can hear in his head that he can't really translate to anyone else in the room. And he doesn't really know what's happening until he hears the thing. You know, it's how we get the inverted baseline on God only knows.

52:18And, you know, all of these things that he was in pursuit of. I think writing for me has to be similar where I'm not looking to impose my will on language. I'm asking the language. I'm really just saying I'm sitting down and I'm going to start writing and I want to be shown a path different than the one that I'm on right now. And as it stands, the language has done that for me so far. So when you were writing something like There's Always This Year, are you going into it thinking, I'm going to explore basketball, but I don't know what is going to come from it, essentially? Yeah, I mean, the proposal for that book was just like, I think I want to write about LeBron James, and here's an essay on He Got Game.

52:53And when I sat down and write it, it became a lot different. I mean, it became a meditation on mortality and place and time and my father. and I would have never come to any of those conclusions had I just said, this is going to be a LeBron James book, which I don't even know what that means. But I'm thankful for that. I'm thankful for not knowing where I'm going to go until the language arrives. It keeps it interesting as you're working. Yeah, I mean, that's my biggest problem is that I'm more of a plotter and so I kind of have an idea of what I want to do with it. And the biggest problem with that as someone with ADHD is the executive function of now you just have to carry out what you already know.

53:38Like that's not very interesting. That's tough. So I'm trying to find a better balance of that. I also just want to say I really appreciated reading this book as someone who grew up in Indiana. We grew up at a similar time, I think. And I can't play. But my dad, both my brothers and my dad are basketball obsessed. My younger brother's name is Jordan after Michael Jordan. They're just, they're crazy basketball people. So I grew up around it all the time, going to Pacer games, all that kind of thing. And so it was just really interesting to look at it through a completely different lens than pure athleticism or fandom.

54:17So anyway, I just really, really appreciate that. It was cool because I had all this knowledge forced on me. And so I know all these names and I know a lot of the story, but it was really interesting. Second in the ADHD category is what video games do you play? Yeah. So right now, because I've been so busy, I'm only playing sports-based games. Okay. That's not my preferred mode. Yeah. But I do like, because it gives you a firm, like if I'm playing MLB The Show, for example, it's like I know I can get through like 10 games in 30 minutes. Right. Playing The Show mode. Yeah. If I'm playing NBA 2K, it's like I'll set the quarters to eight minutes and here's how much time I have.

54:55Now. Makes sense. In the winter, when I have more time, I love an open world game. I mean, like Elden Ring is one of the best games. That's my favorite game of the past five years or whatever. I mean, truly. Yeah, it's incredible. I was talking recently with somebody about the moment that game came out, like that first week where it felt like everyone was just in the world together. I hadn't had an experience like that since like a Zelda game. You know what I mean? It was like beautiful to me to have this moment where it felt a moment where like a cultural moment. Yeah, like one of the rare times a monochromatic cultural moment felt good.

55:27It was like everyone I know was just in the world of this game. I still love Red Dead. You know, I play it. I never get through it again. I've gotten through it twice. It's a hard emotional game. I haven't played it yet, but it's on my list. It's a special game. But yeah, I love an open world thing. Me too. I had a little list. I ran into somebody in L.A. recently who was talking to me about like Japanese RPGs. and they gave me a list that I wrote down somewhere to get into when I have more time. And I was excited to do that. If you remember to send it to me, I would like to know that. My son would like that too.

56:02He's about 14 and he's just doing a second run of Elden Ring. And for some reason, this is when it clicked for him. And now he's like all in. It's really satisfying. I think this is what I also liked about Elden Ring personally, was that it actually did not come to me easily. Right. Me neither. It didn't come to me easily at all. It took like a lot. But then when it does click, it is really satisfying. I had people tell me like, stick with it. But knowing what I like, I like Zelda and I like Witcher and I like all the open world stuff. But yeah, I think it was satisfying, especially because when I'm busy, my default is like, I'll just play a sports game.

56:35Yeah. Which all those, I mean, I enjoy them, but they do come so easily. I mean, if you grew up playing like any, you know. Yeah. They just come, like sports games and fighting games. Even if you grew up just like mashing buttons on Killer Instinct or Mortal Kombat, you can know your way around fighting game. I loved Elden Ring because it was hard. Yeah, it's hard. And I was like, it was so hard that I was like, what setting is this on? I was like, what am I doing? Am I not playing this right? I don't understand. But it's like that acquired taste thing where you're like, oh, no, it's extra special.

57:03Yeah, it clicks. I love that. Yeah. Okay. This is about the mixtape. I heard you talking about something we all did in the 90s, which was mixtapes from the radio. And I just had the question of, first, do you have a song that you particularly remember taping off the radio? Yes, a song by an artist called Ebony Foster. Okay. The song's called Crazy For You. And it was a little-known R &B single. She's a singer out of Sacramento. Little-known R &B single from 1997 or 8. And I love the song. It was not a hit at all. Yeah, I don't know it. It was occasionally, if you were someone who, like, watched the music video shows on BET when they play at the end of, you know, on the late block of one of those.

57:51But I loved it. And I would call, you know, WVKO, and I would call these stations and request it every day because I just wanted it on my tape because I, you know, couldn't find the single at the library back then. It just really was not a big song. And so I would call, and they would always, you know, give me the, oh, well, if we get to it, if we get to it, if we get to it. And then I remember, and that meant that I, you know, I would call if I had a, particularly if I was grounded, which I was sometimes, I would call in the morning. And that meant that I, you know, they say, well, we'll get to it.

58:23If we get to it, it'll be before five. And I would have to sit by the radio all day, you know? And I remember sitting on my bed reading. I was grounded. And I heard the radio DJ getting ready to introduce it. And I, like, leapt from my bed. And I stepped on a toy car. and I was like limping across the room to the radio and I got it just in time. That's awesome. That's great. If you still had to do that now, is there a new song that you would be waiting at the radio for? I mean, there is a lot. It's hard to imagine because we have access to these, but I also like, yeah, I mean, it would probably be a song that I couldn't get out of my head.

59:08There's a song I like called Chai T-Baby by a band called Good Boy Daisy that I put on a lot of playlists recently. Yeah. And I would, it's such an earworm that I would wait all day by the radio for that just to get it, just to have it. I mean, I would need to imagine a world where the access is significantly lesser than it is. Oh, yeah. Because even for the most underground stuff that I listen to, I can find it on Bandcamp. I can get, you know, I would need to imagine a world where I don't have access to, because I'm thinking about the 90s. You know, it wasn't even the early 2000s internet. It was like, I couldn't find it.

59:40It wasn't the Napster peer-to-peer stuff. I will say that era was interesting to me because the peer-to-peer stuff, Napster specifically, you could find things. I recently unearthed all my Burn CDs. I'm trying to digitize them. I mean like thousands. I'm trying to digitize them. And there's stuff on there that like remixes and alternate mixes that you just can't find anywhere. Yeah. And that's really beautiful, I think. It's interesting to see, you have to be in a certain scenario for this to like work for you instead of against you. But I like seeing something like Cindy Lee where you can only listen to it on YouTube or you have to buy it on the bank app or get the vinyl or whatever.

1:00:21That's kind of an interesting thing that seems like it's happening more too. Absolutely. And that less accessible ends up becoming interesting in a different way. Far more interesting. Yeah. Last question. You seem like somebody who, I don't have this. This is a problem for me. I have to be intentional about making life more important than art. And so you seem like somebody who does that. Maybe you don't do it naturally. I don't know. But you seem like somebody who is more grounded than me, I'll say, in that way. Do you have any tips for – because I know when I am able to do that, my art is better.

1:00:58So, yeah. What can you teach me on that? I don't – I mean you're a parent. I'm not a parent. Right. Right. And I think because of this, I really revel in this reality I'm in now where so many of my dear friends have kids. Yeah. And a lot of them are young. And so a lot of them are between the ages of like, like baby to five or six, you know. And there's a sense of wonder, wonder without irony that is embedded in the mind of a child that age. and I get to spend so much time around young people who just want to tell me things and show me things that are to me ordinary but then when charged with that child's imagination it becomes extraordinary and I actually think that makes me realize that I'm so eager to do the life that I have I'm so eager because it it is populated so richly by people with more expansive imaginations than I have constantly wanting to show me things.

1:02:01And sure, selfishly that feeds my work, but it also just feeds my brain and heart, which in turn feeds my work. And left to my own devices, I would be in the house almost all the time, right? But I'm so eager to be outside in the universe that my friends have created and their children have created. And that is a real gift for me. Yeah, that's a good point. I feel like when my kids were younger, it was more forced upon me because they just take so much time and energy. You have to kind of really tune into that. And now that they're all over 10, it's not as, you know, it takes more intentionality, basically.

1:02:43Yeah, for sure. Well, thanks for doing this. This is a complete blast. I had such a fun time talking to you about all this. No doubt. Tell people the best place to check out the new podcast. Yeah, Living for the City is wherever you find podcasts. It's also on YouTube. It's surprisingly doing very well on YouTube. Yeah episode one has way more views than I expected and you know every Wednesday new episode drops So hope people check it out. I'm really proud of it. Yeah, it's a really cool project. Go check it out We'll also have the links in the show notes. Thank you. Thanks

1:03:32All right, I'm back with our CTA. It's called FamArt. Here's the idea. I did this recently. I have become a Columbus Crew fan, a soccer fan, since I've lived in Columbus over the past 11, 12 years. And I love their merch. They have really great style. The stadium's super cool. A lot of cool art happens around this team. And I was like, I want to get involved with this. And so for the first time in a long time, I made some fan art. And it's this design that is like a warrior crew cat that has a sword and is smashing a soccer ball that looks like it's become a skull. And I was trying to design something that would be great for a t-shirt just to show my support for the team, put it on the internet, tag them so that I can get in the mix.

1:04:25And right after that, someone commented and was like, Hey, you should get connected to the Nordeka fan group. And maybe some of these could be turned into signs or like huge banners. And so I am going to be pursuing that. And so here is the call to adventure for you. It's fam art. So it's fan art. That's for the fam that you want to be part of locally. So is there something that you love about where you're from and where you live that you could make some art to memorialize and celebrate and just put it out there and tag people and get involved? For me, it was just a really great way to instantly get on the radar of this thing that I just love and would love to dive deeper into.

1:05:11So I hope that is something that inspires you and encourages you and excites you. If you do make some of that, feel free to tag me too, because I'd love to see it. I want to thank Hanif Abdurraqib for being on the show, spending tons of time with me, hanging out in this studio. It was a blast getting to chat with him. I hope we get to do it again. He's just super inspiring to me as someone who explores kind of memoir story writing, which is something that I dabble in on this show and in public speaking and also pour into some of my kids' books. So thank you so much for your time, Haneef. Go check out his new podcast, Living for the City.

1:05:49So interested in this topic. And I know he just does so much great work. So I think it's going to be fantastic. Super huge thanks to Sophie Miller for being an editor and producer on the show. Thanks to Connor Jones of Pinning Beautiful for audio edits, video edits, animation, and sound design. Thanks to Yoni Wolf of the band Y for our theme music and soundtrack. And thanks to all of you for listening. Until we speak again, stay pepped up.

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