PAW Patrol Founder: 11 Principles That Built a $2 Billion Empire | Ronnen Harary

18:21Creator Playbooks Host:We learned from the Japanese. And we were one of the first people in North America to actually apply that model together, which is storytelling and toys together, mixing and fusing both art forms.

18:31Ronnen Harary:You know, you make it sound easy, but in terms of actually securing the TV deals and getting it live as a show, like, what are the actual mechanics of that? Because like, that's, I presume that's not easy.

18:46Creator Playbooks Host:I would say a lot of it comes in the preparation and the work and the groundwork that you lay years before. Okay. So in 2001, we started to go to MIPCOM in France, which is the big show around the world where everybody comes with all their content, including kids' content, to sell to the broadcasters. And we started going there in 2001 predominantly because we couldn't get a license. And so we had the idea of let's try to get a license from something that's not even sold to a broadcaster yet at an early stage. We'll bet on their content. There won't be a lot of competition for it. We'll have a higher propensity chance of getting it.

19:26Creator Playbooks Host:And so we went for seven, eight years to the show. And we were like Switzerland. You know, we weren't selling a show and we weren't a broadcaster. But we developed all these relationships with these broadcasters. So when we did have something to sell at the time, we had the relationships in place. That and also we were advertising a lot on Cartoon Network and spending a lot of money there. So we leveraged the fact that we were in the toy business that we were advertising on their channel. So the nice thing for them to do was to give us an audience. We had the relationships and the advertising, but it wasn't like we just walked in cold.

19:58Creator Playbooks Host:It was, you know, seven, eight years worth of relationships that gave us the audience to make the pitch.

20:04Ronnen Harary:When you get to that low point, in terms of the revenue and the decline, how does the idea for Paw Patrol come to be? Is that just because you're innovating because of the decline, or you were just headed in that direction anyway?

20:19Creator Playbooks Host:And we did two things. One was we said, we need to open up the funnel to way more ideas. Okay. Because if you have more to look at, then the best stuff is going to rise to the top. And we said, we're going to be much more judicious with what we're actually going to bring to market. And then the third thing was, whatever we are going to bring to market, we are going to give it so much love, attention, and detail. And we're not just going to dial it in. So it was a combination between all those things. and with Paw Patrol, we had this idea because we did well with Bakugan. It was all about transformation.

20:56Creator Playbooks Host:We said, you know, no one's done transformation for preschoolers. And also when we looked at the preschool space, there hadn't been a big breakout show in about 10 years. So everything we were doing at that point was all like boys action, boys action or action toys. We said, let's try something for preschoolers, but let's take this incredible play pattern, this magical aspect of something turning from one thing to another and then back to the original states. And let's try to do it for preschoolers. The story actually came from Keith Chapman, who's the original person behind Bob the Builder. And I'd had wanted to work with Keith for many, many years.

21:34Creator Playbooks Host:He's such a lucky guy and a great storytelling person and a just amazing human being. And he came up with this idea of these five pups that go on rescue missions. He called it Robbie and the Rescue Pups. That was the original name. Uh, and the irony is it had nothing to do with transformation, but our toy team added the transformation in there. They read the scripts, they developed product, they felt the, um, toys in conjunction with the writers and stuff like that and, and brought it to market. But it was, it was really a labor of love where incredible human beings came together, um, to produce something very magical for kids.

22:13Creator Playbooks Host:And, um, you know, we're not dialing it in. was just really paying attention to all the detail to make it resonate with children.

22:25Ronnen Harary:What's the journey from launching it to like, you know, this is a success. When does that land?

22:32Creator Playbooks Host:Well, the funniest thing is that I got the first inklings that this thing was, that Paw Patrol was resonating. When I was early days Instagram and I would go and I'd look at, to see if people were making birthday cakes for Paw Patrol. and and i was like wow there's a lot of birthday cakes out there this is a lot of birth i would check every single day and there was more and more and more and more and i still use the test till today like we produced you know many shows after paw patrol that didn't do well and they all don't have a lot of birthday cakes and so between the ratings the birthday cakes and our own sales at retail the sales for our toys were very very good and for other licensed products and so then And we felt that we had something.

23:12Creator Playbooks Host:But I tell you this much. You know, one of the hardest things to do with a TV franchise for kids is to keep it going and to sustain it. Right? You never know if kids are going to stick with it. It's very tenuous. And so when we started, we said, okay, let's get Paw for five. We said, let's do five seasons of Paw Patrol. And we just kept our heads down one season after the next season after the next season. Okay. At year four, we said, let's go paw for 10. Kept her head down, producing great seasons. Every year, 52 episodes, a special 13 episodes inside with a different theme. And then in year seven, we said, okay, our mantra is paw forever.

23:55Creator Playbooks Host:And that's what we did. And then we said, let's take a shot at making movies for kids, which no one thought was possible. We also produced it here in Canada. Our team did it. They'd never done film before. we partnered with Paramount and now we're on the third film, which is coming out this August. So we, we really stayed with the franchise and we actually learned our lesson because with Bakugan, Bakugan went off the air after the year four and we kind of abandoned our first baby. And we took all the learnings from abandoning that. Like you shouldn't, if you have a franchise, even if it lasts three, four years, like you need to stay with it forever.

24:33Creator Playbooks Host:and so we didn't do that with Bakugan um but that's our commitment with PAW that's PAW forever

24:39Ronnen Harary:yeah well that's that's super interesting because I'm trying to like think um we're in such an time right now where you can just create IP and publish to YouTube right um and Spotify and you know I'm in I'm in a place where I work with a lot of creators and brands and we're we're creating these shows which are now getting picked up on Netflix and Amazon and it's a really interesting moment in media where you've got like the traditional licensed MIPCOM model and then you've got the these kind of creators who are just and TV personalities who have realized like they can just create this stuff themselves now what are the what are the kind of key things that make it work and i guess i'm also thinking that a lot of people love this idea of the kind of disney model and the the content and the products and the ip and the parks and the experiences what are the fundamentals for people listening that they should be thinking about i would say at the end of the day um it's all about storytelling and and that's the most important thing i think it's

25:54Creator Playbooks Host:less about necessarily the mediums the mediums are always going to be changing but the thing that's anchors like did you capture the imagination of the viewer right and are they interested and you know there's so many things that go into that i think the one important thing for us that we we've done with pop patrol is we always talk about tone and tenor okay there's a tone and tenor to pop patrol and you don't want to jump the shark right you don't want to change the tone and tenor and i think a lot of people you know they get success and they got some stuff going and then they try this over here and they try this over there, but then they lose the core essence of what they created.

26:29Creator Playbooks Host:So I think the most important thing is to stick to the core essence of what you've created and you can expand it out as long as you're not jumping the shark, right? You're not changing it from the core tone and tenor of what, what it is. And so I think if you stick to the core tone and tenor and you keep on bringing out fresh new content, and I think I think that's very, very key because everybody wants to see new and fresh. And if you constantly building up new and fresh, then you're also building up an amazing library, right? Where new people are coming in, they've got like the benefit of seeing, you know, three, four, five, six, seven years worth of content.

27:05Creator Playbooks Host:And you're building up this library and you're constantly staying with it. And things just build over time, right? It takes long periods of time to just build that audience and have that audience stay with you. What's the mechanics of that industry now? Our last two shows, we had a show called Unicorn Academy. We still have it. We sold it to Netflix. So it's playing on Netflix worldwide. We have another show called Vita the Vet, which is a hybrid between streaming in some countries and traditional broadcasts in other countries. We have the ability to clip, not clip, but to do shorter episodes on YouTube.

27:42Creator Playbooks Host:And so that's, you really need to be everywhere today. And when we negotiate the deals with Netflix, there is allowances to put certain amount of content onto youtube um but then you have people other like coco melon they went the youtube routes and then they went from youtube to netflix or you look at people like miss rachel she went from she went from basically instagram and tiktok to to uh netflix we actually make all the toys for for miss rachel there is no clear path today okay there is really no clear path today because people are consuming in so many different ways and so many different mediums as you know and your viewers and your listeners know so i think that at the end of the day it's um you want to be as many in as many places as possible but i think good is good

28:31Ronnen Harary:and good will cut through what's the dynamic there between the different divisions are you actually looking to make money on content or is that just let's just tell stories let's entertain people let's get in their living rooms and create amazing ip and then we monetize it through products and games how do how do the different kind of divisions work and how do you think about that

28:54Creator Playbooks Host:yeah i think when we first started it was very much you know we'll create the content to drive the toys and some other licensing merchandising but now we it's we create the content we want to monetize on the content itself. Um, and you want to build up a library, you know, we make good revenue from music. Like you can make a lot of money from music. It's, it's unbelievable. Um, yeah, it's, and you want to get broadcast revenues. Those are really important over and above the licensing and merchandising and obviously the toy sales itself. So it's a, it's a combination of all of them. The greatest thing about YouTube is that you don't have to sell to a streamer or a broadcaster say and to get your shot and to see whether or not what you put out into the world will resonate with an audience um you don't have to you don't have to wait for someone to say yes anymore i'm super excited

29:54Ronnen Harary:to announce that this episode is produced by my own podcast agency 7x content we create top 10 shows for entrepreneurs, brands, and creators. So if you'd like to work with us and start your own podcast or take an existing one to the next level, check us out at the link in the description or visit us at 7xcontent.com. Now let's get back into this week's episode. What are some of the other big lessons along the way in building all of this?

30:23Creator Playbooks Host:We have a philosophy in our company, you know, it's like treat your business like a river, right you want to keep everything moving and we have something in our business which is we don't blame anybody because we're in the creative industry and all three things areas of our business and so i'm very proud to say like no one has ever blamed anybody in our business for a failure ever okay in our career because it just consumes so much energy right and it's just a bad use of time so we just mark down the products move forward get on to the next one and just move forward at pace. So I think the most important thing is actually momentum, is keeping the momentum going.

31:02Creator Playbooks Host:I think the moment you get stuck, right, and then the doubt creeps in, then the luck dissipates. You know, doubt is the anti-luck, in my opinion. And as long as you like what you're failing at, continue going, but realize that it is, you're one step away from a big success.

31:21Ronnen Harary:How do you not get demoralized, though? I mean, and that's the thing with creatives. You're so invested in your ideas. How do you deal with that?

31:29Creator Playbooks Host:I'd say don't be so invested. You have to have a certain amount of emotional detachment from what you're doing. Because you are in business and you are putting something out into the world. And not everybody is going to have the same resonance to what you're putting out into the world. Right? And so there has to be some sort of humility and acknowledgement of not connecting. I think a lot of people just get stuck in that. They just get too, or they're too invested. I had that problem myself where we had a product. We put so much, I mean, lots of products, sick bricks, okay, 10 kainites, like so many products.

32:12Creator Playbooks Host:And I was like, you know, there's a little bit, there's something to work with here. Let's stick with it. And my business partners were like, it's not resonating. The POS is just not there. Let's just move on. And I can tell you, in our whole career, we've only been able to bring back one product that hasn't done well.

32:28Ronnen Harary:How much time do you need to know that something's not working in these cases of those products? From a POS perspective, you know within the first six weeks.

32:38Creator Playbooks Host:It's that quick, right? Because we actually, there is a multiplier that you put on POS for every week of the year. right plus you can have you can have you know intuition so i'll never forget when we did don't free freddy and we did a tv commercial and we tested the commercial with kids and i saw this one kid's look on his face and it was like completely deadpan and i knew right then and

33:03Ronnen Harary:there i'm like this product is not going to sell do you do a lot of that testing and you know we do

33:09Creator Playbooks Host:we do more testing for like the commercial is the commercial you know resonating with the kids did we get the message across or we do testing for um is is a toy the right size can it fit in the kid's hand that type of stuff but to test whether or not the concept or the idea is going to resonate with the kids we don't test because it's very hard to test from with a prototype with a child and so you really have to bring it to market you gotta you gotta get to market and and then they

33:40Ronnen Harary:have the finished product in hand and then you know so with most of these products is it kind of got an intuition and just like creative excitement that you're like we should do this i would say it's half half art and half science right the art part is being like a seven-year-old

33:55Creator Playbooks Host:kid and tapping into what you love doing as a kid and does it get you excited and then the other part is really understanding the industry understanding the history what's come before you what's done well, what hasn't done well, why hasn't it done well, what's currently in the market, what's your competition like, and is there any white space to support the innovation that you're bringing to the marketplace?

34:19Ronnen Harary:If someone wants to build kind of a brand, an IP that just lands, what else have you learned that's important?

34:26Creator Playbooks Host:You can't replicate what someone else has done. We've tried it. We can never replicate it. People have tried to replicate Paw Patrol. they haven't been able to do it right there's certain things you can't replicate pokemon you just can't replicate the things that are super successful um and i think there's a lot in there that you need to chart your own path and you need to bring something to market that is very different than what has come before

34:56Ronnen Harary:and and how do you do that that's that's like no one's it no one's in preschool let's go

35:02Creator Playbooks Host:see what's going on in preschool well no like for us i mean people were in preschool right but we with paw patrol i mean it was it was the pacing was different right all the other preschool shows before us were much slower right and so we intuitively felt that preschoolers will be able to um watch a faster paced story right um that had never been done before uh the the amount of characters in the show there's not usually that many main characters um that was different uh the the action and excitement of the fact that you get these dog houses that transform into vehicles there was the vehicle play was really um high-paced and exciting so there was a myriad of different things i mean it wasn't like i mean i'm not saying i'm not advocating that your innovation has to be like you know radically different from what's in the marketplace but you have to offer something that is different one of the other really interesting things you've

36:15Ronnen Harary:you've done is you are you acquired uh rubix cube right why acquire a a product like that

36:22Creator Playbooks Host:well i think in the toy industry when you have a an opportunity to get a brand that's got like 98 awareness around the world it doesn't come along very often and so we're always on the lookout for incredible brands that we can take our innovation and infuse it into those brands and actually grow it and scale it and build it into a wired audience so you know it came along it was it was very complicated in terms of the ownership structure and stuff like that and we were able to get through that and uh and and buy it but it was you know those opportunities just don't come along very often hasbro mattel bought all the best brands in the 80s and 90s you know monopoly scrabble you know like uh they were all bought and um so there wasn't much left so when there was one that came

37:13Ronnen Harary:up we took it talk to me about those guys as competitors because they have all the ip right Disney, Mattel, Hasbro. What makes those businesses so powerful?

37:24Creator Playbooks Host:It's a combination between imagination and the actual physical play pattern combined together. And when you can hone in on the play pattern, that play pattern will live forever. Plus also incredible storytelling and branding. We have to bring out new products twice a year. Even for the big brands like the Barbies of the world, they got to bring out new products every single year and drive the marketing. so it's the constant innovation that keeps it fresh how do you innovate you innovate through great teams i mean we have incredible designers here we have incredible illustrators toy people in-house inventors we have incredible network of inventors on the outside we have incredible relationships with other toy companies so our whole philosophy is we're open to open to ideas from wherever they come from in the world we'll take a meeting with anybody anytime we'll go to all the shows we are constantly on the lookout for invention and i will tell you the craziest thing is that when i was starting the toy industry i thought we'd run out of ideas i thought we'd run out of ideas and it never happened it never happened um so it's just being being around creative people all the time and not being if not being afraid to try What's the evolution of you as an operator in a business like this?

38:47Creator Playbooks Host:Well, I started running operations for the first 12 years. You know, I went to Asia, set up the office there. I used to sign off on every single cost of goods. You could put any product in front of me. This is a nice product sitting on my desk. You can put any product in front of me. This is a great product. It's the aquarium.

39:12Creator Playbooks Host:anyways and uh you can put any product in front of me back in the early days and i could tell you exactly how much it costs okay and the product wouldn't actually the product would not get the green light to be manufactured till i signed it okay um and that was the early years for me and then i moved on to product development and the animation um and then the general overall running of the company. And now, you know, we stepped down from being co-CEOs of the business and I'm chairman of the business. And, you know, now it's, we're focused on how to have the company live beyond the founders. Not that the founders are going anywhere, but how do you get a business to actually be able to replicate its way of doing business with 3000 people in your company and have the same values and the same way of doing things and the same belief in partnerships and constant rain making and whites looking for white space opportunities and keeping the creativity high.

40:11Creator Playbooks Host:Um, and, uh, you know, your relationship with the kids that you're producing the toys for all those values. How do you imbue that and keep that going with 3000 people in a company? Um, and that's where I'm at right now today. And that's, I'd say it's the hardest, It's harder than producing a Paw Patrol. Everybody wants to kind of imbue their own ways on the things that are going on in the company. Everybody wants to make their mark, right? But you've got to be careful with that type of stuff. So this is a very difficult part in our journey right now.

40:45Ronnen Harary:So along that journey, how are you deciding which role and which area should be your focus from running ops then into animation? like are you just going to where there's the biggest problem or your biggest interest or how do you decide where your your focus is and your role is you know really depends on the decade

41:08Creator Playbooks Host:right at the beginning it was it was need um and so i went into operations because my two business partners didn't want to do it so i i was the one that did it and you know i have more patience so i was willing to go to asia and and deal with different cultures and and and learn how those cultures worked. Um, and then after, you know, the first 10 years, it was more about, I led more with my curiosity and what I was interested in and also what I thought would actually build the business. And I knew that entertainment would be potentially a critical driver, given what I told you before, in terms of 26 % of toys being, um, coming from entertainment.

41:48Creator Playbooks Host:Um, and then also realizing that potentially you can get other revenues from entertainment that we talked about before. So I dove headfirst into that area while I was still working with my partner, Ben Barry, running product development.

42:04Creator Playbooks Host:And so it was more about a combination between where I thought the company can grow and also where my own curiosity was like and constantly balancing that out. And as the company grew and we got more sustainable revenue, it gave me the opportunity to actually branch out myself. And I would say like, if the company didn't grow and didn't have reoccurring revenue, then I would be stuck more in doing still the operations and that type of stuff in the business.

42:34Ronnen Harary:So that like recurring revenue just gives you the stability to move more on interest than like necessity. Correct.

42:44Creator Playbooks Host:Correct. And also you can, you can lean, you, you know, we got to a certain point where, it was spend time in the areas that you're very good at spend less time in the areas that you're not good at um and that was a we had that benefit as a result of having you know more reoccurring

43:09Ronnen Harary:revenue having a base of business how have you navigated balancing that and like letting parts of the baby go and be ran by other people?

43:20Creator Playbooks Host:I get so much joy and happiness when I see the company have successful product come to market that I had nothing to do with. And I'll never forget back, like, no, I'm serious. I'll never forget in 2016, we brought to market this product called Hatchimals. Okay. It was basically this characters inside and you hold them up, big egg, and you love him to life or love her to life. And it feeds on the heat of your hands. And so what happens is the character starts to actually peck through the egg, and it can turn around in the egg 360 degrees, and it pecks and pecks and pecks. And then if you put it down, the thing will go to sleep, and it'll be sleeping for like, it can be sleeping for years.

44:00Creator Playbooks Host:And then you pick it up again, and it continues to peck and eventually will hatch out of the egg. And then you can take the character out and he comes to life and he interacts with you. And that was one of our biggest product successes in our company's history. It ran for like four or five years, hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars. And I was deep in product development at that time. I just wasn't developing this particular product. I had nothing to do with it. And I was like, wow, this is incredible. Like this, this is, this is the ultimate testament of success is when people in your company, okay, can bring something to market that resonates with the customer in that way with that much innovation and you didn't have anything to do with it.

44:42And, um, even yesterday I

44:44Creator Playbooks Host:was walking around the office. Um, the team just did their 2027 sale internal sales summit. So it's like three days of all teams producing the, uh, the different products. And I was just asking them for their opinions. I said, you know, the 27 line better than 26 is better than the 25. And I asked everybody if they would wager their yearly earnings. You know, what year would they wager their yearly earnings on? And they all said 27. And it made me so happy, right? It just made me so happy that the next year is going to be better than this year in their opinion. And, you know, I'm not involved in product development anymore.

45:23Creator Playbooks Host:I don't sit in online reviews. I don't work. I don't develop products. I miss it. I miss it a lot actually. Um, but it's so great that we have amazing talented people that have learned the arts of creating incredible toys in the business.

45:40Ronnen Harary:What are the biggest lessons in making that possible? It's grounded in doing the right thing for the business at every moment in time. Right.

45:50Creator Playbooks Host:Um, and I think that if you are on an entrepreneurial journey and it depends where you're on at that journey. The question is, are you, is the business a standalone entity onto itself or is it just your own personal playground that you're involved with? Right. And there's, and there's no judgment and there's no right or wrong. Right. But if you are trying to build a, a entity that you want to live beyond yourself, and to me, which is the greatest testament of successful companies, then you have to always do the right thing for the business. And you may not be the right CEO for the business. You may not be the right head of ops for the business.

46:39Creator Playbooks Host:You may have an individual contributor role. It really depends, right? So having that self-awareness, where your contribution can best fit to drive the business forward and drive the growth is very important, right? And what do you need to work on as a person to be the best at whatever you're contributing and having that awareness? So to me, it's grounded in that.

47:06Ronnen Harary:What are some of your other big moments in this journey? So, you know, missing out on Beyblade.

47:11Creator Playbooks Host:Yeah, I can tell you funny stories. I passed on after Bakugan. I worked for three and a half years, okay, to try to get a film made for Bakugan. I was so hell-bent on getting a live-action film made, and I moved to Los Angeles. We had an office there. I pitched every toy company, sorry, every studio, and we finally did a deal with Scott Stuber with his production company at Universal. We did a deal with Universal, and we spent years developing the script, two scripts, two different directors. Finally, we got it to a point where I got the call. Okay. I got the call and they said, we're ready to make the film a hundred million dollar live action film.

47:56Creator Playbooks Host:And I said, no,

48:00Creator Playbooks Host:it wasn't just me. It was me and Ben. We said no. Um, crazy. And it was the worst mistake. It was the worst mistake. First of all, you never turned down a hundred million dollar live action film with a probably a$50 million marketing budget attached to it for one of your brands. And we use conventional wisdom whereby in the toy industry, if something goes down in sales, if you wait seven years, you can launch to next, uh, next generation of kids. So Bakugan was at the, it was at the end of its life. Um, and so we said, you know, if we're going to launch the movie, it's going to push out our relaunch by two or three years and we don't want to wait.

48:37Creator Playbooks Host:So let's be patient and maybe we'll do the film in seven years time. We relaunched it, but we never did the film in seven years time. And now Bakugan has been around for, you know, 20 plus years. And we still haven't done a film. I missed that opportunity. And I, and that's why I was so passionate before about never abandoning your, your, your babies. Because that was an abandonment at that moment in time. And I, and, and, you know, I write about it in the book that I've just published, no experience necessary is that, is that there's a power in not knowing. Right. There's a deep power sometimes in knowing.

49:14Creator Playbooks Host:And there's sometimes when you overthink things, like when I was 40 years old, and I overthought the whole thing with the film, you know, sometimes you don't make the best decisions.

49:23Ronnen Harary:It sounds like in this industry, there's a lot of pitching, right? Oh, yeah. Pitching movies, pitching products, pitching TV shows. What have you what have you learned makes a great pitch or a great meeting?

49:36Creator Playbooks Host:Well, first of all, I've never done a PowerPoint presentation in my whole life. what makes what makes a great meeting is a not doing it over zoom being in the room going to their location right going to their office you get so much information when you're in someone else's environment you pick up so many things so many cues from the people that are there and people want to see you they don't want to see what you're putting up on the screen at the end of the day right they want to hear from you they are making a decision whether or not they think that you're going to be able to fulfill what you're actually pitching.

50:12Creator Playbooks Host:Obviously, they got to love the idea, but it's the confidence. It's your confidence behind the idea that they're looking at. And so I'm just a huge advocate of sharing your story, being super transparent, being open, but being in the room, right? They want to feel you and they want to feel a bit of your team. so it's like a combination of of all those things and uh and then also i think that uh laying the groundwork right like you can't just come and pitch first time cold and expect to to get the deal right or for someone to partner with you it is staying in the game and constantly being out there and building long-term relationships with individuals i can't tell you how many pitches we've done in our business and how many meetings we've taken where nothing has actually come from it other than the most magical thing that's come from it is laying the groundwork for the future when the moment comes your way right you are setting you are setting the foundation you're setting the table for your success later on i can share a funny story for your audience my nickname in japan is the banana boy we were trying to get the rights for this product called aqua doodle which was this mat um and you get a pen you fill it up with water and you give it to a kid and they draw on the mat and the image appears and then it disappears so no mess for parents and full creativity for kids and it was developed by a company called pilot corporation which was owned by pilot pen a hundred year old company and we were in japan um and david fuhrer got us a meeting and he got us a dinner we went for this great potluck dinner and then the next morning we got the big meeting and in japan everybody takes sits on one side of the table and the other company sits on the other side of the table and the most important people sit in the center so i love the formality in japan i just love the formality and the the history of things and so we're in the meeting and we're talking about uh the product and we're pitching the company and at 9 30 in the morning i got like my blood sugar went right down and i turned to my colleague matt i said matt i'm so hungry and first of all like this it's like a massive office.

52:25Creator Playbooks Host:Like I could whisper and they couldn't hear it was so big. So, so Matt says to me, he's like, you know, Renan, you brought the banana from, from the hotel. So I said, Oh, great idea. So I, I leaned down, I pick up the banana. Okay. And I start peeling it. Okay. And then suddenly Dave Fuhrer who got us the meeting, he's like, put the banana away. And I'm like, it's a banana. I can't put a banana away. I just peeled it. And then my business partner, Ben, he says and he's got Ben's got no filter he's like what the fuck are you doing and I'm like I'm like and Dave's like put the banana away and I'm like it's peeled you can't put a banana away and I'm hungry and I'm hungry so I just so I just ate the banana and then this guy ran across for a table okay with a garbage can shaking it like this for me to throw the peel in okay I threw the He ran out of the office.

53:19Creator Playbooks Host:Everything continued as if like nothing had happened. And we got the business. We got the deal. We ended up doing hundreds of millions of dollars with Aquadoodle. Okay. We got the rights for it. It was the most incredible product in 2003. It was our first product from Japan.

53:38And yeah.

53:39Creator Playbooks Host:And then Abe-san, who was the exact same age as my father. Okay. I came back to Japan next trip and I'm walking around the toy fair. and everybody's like, oh, banana boy, banana boy. And he loved telling the story. He got so much joy out of telling that story. So I would say like, it's the relationships, you know, funny things like that happening on the journey that like totally unexpected, you know, not doing everything right. Like who eats a banana in a meeting?

54:03Ronnen Harary:It's so interesting. Like the, some of the, um, the kind of threads here. so you know taking that first product that's validated in in israel and then bringing it to bringing it to canada and the u.s and then kind of continuing to do that with that product in japan and then there's the bakugan but there's the beyblade insight on the on the tv show and the power of that and missing out on that and then you roll that into what you what you did going forward there. Are there any other kind of big threads like that or big, big insights, which you've just rolled into your playbook and you you keep using?

54:53Creator Playbooks Host:You know, I think the other big thing is, is top grading in your company. You know, there's a whole people part, which is, as your company grows, some people grow with the company, and some people don't. So we have a philosophy in our businesses, you know, trying to find the right seat on the bus for individuals where they can shine and they can really excel. But if you can't find the right seat on the bus, then unfortunately, sometimes they need to leave and you need to bring new people into the business. And I think that's a big thing that entrepreneurs face. We face it in, you know, the first five, 10, 15 years of our journey.

55:33And then it kind of flips and it flips in terms of like, if you have people that have been in your

55:38Creator Playbooks Host:business for 10 years and 15 years or seven years or eight years, you want to retain all those people. You want to keep them all in the business, right? And you really want that institutional knowledge because I think the most important thing is the institutional knowledge and the culture. You never want the most important thing. And it never dawned on me till the last handful of years that the most important thing is the culture of the business, right? And you need to protect it and need to be sacrosanct. And it's your moat. It's your most competitive thing in your business more than the brands itself it is your culture because that's the way you that's the way you know you're you're trying to figure out you know like how's what's the secret sauce and spin match right so i can only articulate it so so so much you know there's it's it's hard to put everything to words but it's like that is that is what has made us who we are and protecting that and so it's such an interesting journey the early years with top upgrading and then the institutional knowledge and balance and getting that right.

56:40Creator Playbooks Host:It's a very tricky thing. And then having the courage, right? The courage to actually top grade individuals at the right moment in time and identify that. And then also the ability to make sure that people stay in the business with institutional knowledge and finding the right seat on the bus for those individuals, taking the time and the care to find something that they're going to excel in when they've kind of hit their ceiling or sometimes when they've they've just you know they need something new and fresh and you want them to continue growing in the business in the

57:11Ronnen Harary:business itself i've worked with red bull and if you go into their office they all they all just it's like a cult you know they've all got that vibe how how do you kind of foster a sense of culture and how do you also have that create that relationship with people employees where they can have that open conversation with you we've taken the time care to find the right seat on the bus for many people over many years right so we're we're always on the lookout and i think

57:39Creator Playbooks Host:that when people look around they're like oh my wow i can see how this person's career progressed and how this individual came in to the company with no experience and suddenly they're head of licensing or their head of product development and they can look to those individuals and they can get their inspiration that way. So it's, it's, it's not just a, let's talk about it. We put a lot of it into action. And there's a lot of care. You know, we actually take pride in the fact when people leave, you know, our best, best individuals are the ones that come back. And we'll always take people back.

58:13Creator Playbooks Host:Because we also firmly believe that, you know, it's your life, and you should be on your own journey. And if your journey with Spin Master has come to an end, and you want to do something else. Like we're here to support you. We, we love our alumni. We love all the spin master alumni and people have gone on to do their own businesses and incredible opportunities and done amazing things. Um, so I think it's, uh, you know, I credit my partner, Anton. He's, he loves people. Uh, he loves spending time with people. He loves mentoring people. Um, he loves seeing the best in individuals. Um, same with my partner, Ben.

58:47Creator Playbooks Host:Uh, and, and then I think a lot of it is our dialogue you know we have ferocious debates and so i think that set a culture of open dialogue and open debates and collaboration um and uh people like that here got some uh quick fire questions let's give it a shot top three books the art of loving the book bird by bird by ann lamont which is how i learned how to write a book tomorrow tomorrow tomorrow an amazing fiction book if you like fiction it's incredible it's it's one of the greatest fiction books that I've read in years. It's basically, it's about these three, uh, college students, two guys and a girl that, uh, start this video game company.

59:31Wonderful.

59:31Creator Playbooks Host:So those are my top three books.

59:33Ronnen Harary:Great. Kindest thing someone's ever done for you? Taking the time to identify me at 10

59:40Creator Playbooks Host:years old with my learning disability and getting all the, as a result of that, getting all the accommodations to have extra time on my exams and extra help in school that got me through high school, got me into university and kept me on the straight and narrow.

1:00:00Ronnen Harary:That's incredible. Best advice you ever received?

1:00:04Creator Playbooks Host:Sometimes having too many options is not good for you.

1:00:09Ronnen Harary:What gets you fired up? I bring toys to kids in refugee camps around the world.

1:00:14Creator Playbooks Host:and that fires me up a lot.

1:00:16Ronnen Harary:Very cool. Best thing you've done with your money? I took six of my closest friends

1:00:23Creator Playbooks Host:on an incredible yacht in Italy. We did a week. That was a lot of fun.

1:00:29Ronnen Harary:What about the highest moment building Spin Master?

1:00:32Creator Playbooks Host:I think, you know, there's so many, but I would say the Earth, the air hogs back in the day and bringing that product to market and having it being a success after two years of hard work. and actually flying the product itself. That was a high point for me. The fact that we can get something to work over and over and over and again, it wasn't even really a toy. But I would say AirHogs, bringing that to market, was a real high point for me. Because we had never done anything to do with engineering and development like that ever before. What about the lowest moment? that's an easy one was in 2012 when the company lost half of its sales and we had to let go of 350 people in the business because we got ahead of our skis and we had to do four restructurings over two years and letting those people go and letting good people leave the company and having to recapitalize the business and the strain on the business.

1:01:41Creator Playbooks Host:You know, we have a saying, growth hides a multitude of sins. But when you're not growing, all the sins come out and you can see clearly. And the strain that they had on my relationship with my business partners, that was definitely a low point. Yeah.

1:01:57Ronnen Harary:How do you come through that?

1:01:59Creator Playbooks Host:You have a desire not to end on that low point. You don't want the story to end there.

1:02:02Ronnen Harary:If you could tell your younger self one thing, what would it be?

1:02:05Creator Playbooks Host:Life is long. Um, enjoy the journey, take time for yourself. You don't have to put so much pressure on yourself.

1:02:14Ronnen Harary:What are you optimizing for right now?

1:02:16Creator Playbooks Host:I'm optimizing for getting my book out into the world, which is really difficult. It's almost like a startup in itself. That's one thing to write a book. It's another thing to actually market a book and get a book sold, um, and have people read your book and review your book. So I'm on that journey right now. and it's a lot of fun because I'm learning and I'm doing things that I haven't done before, which is the most exciting thing about life.

1:02:40Ronnen Harary:Bruno, it's been incredible. If people want to connect with you, where can they find you?

1:02:46Creator Playbooks Host:Best place is on LinkedIn. Find me there. Just write me on LinkedIn and happy to engage. And if anybody wants to read my book and, you know, it's great for young people, great for people in their 20s, great for teenagers. It's called No Experience Necessary. Why betting on yourself in your 20s is the best decision you'll ever make.

1:03:09Ronnen Harary:It's been an incredible conversation and yeah, really excited for the book. And yeah, just thanks so much for sharing so much knowledge. It's been incredible. And I know the audience are gonna love it.

1:03:21Creator Playbooks Host:Thanks for taking the time and the interest in my story or our story.

1:03:25Ronnen Harary:If you enjoyed this episode with Ronan Harari, I think you'll love my episode with Ben Branson. Ben built an incredible global brand, a drinks brand, one of the first non-alcoholic spirits brands in the world and took it to market. And it's just an amazing playbook and masterclass for building a brand. I think you're going to love it. Check it out and queue it up to listen to next.