Athletes Go Streaming and Creators Go Dancing, feat. Sam Gutelle of Tubefilter | Creator Upload

0:00Josh, can you believe we have been doing this podcast for almost six years?

0:04Sam Gutelle:Lauren, seriously, it only feels like, what, 20, 30? More like 50, am I right? Definitely 50, definitely 50. Well, in anticipation of our sixth anniversary happening this February, we actually want to hear from you, our audience. That is right. We're officially plugging and pushing the Creator Upload Survey. It's here, it's happening. For the first time ever, we are interested in something other than ourselves. in partnership with Deepwater Strategies who put this together for us. Thank you very much. We want to learn about you. It's truly historic. Please head to bit.ly slash creator upload survey.

0:40Sam Gutelle:That's bit.ly slash creator upload survey and tell us all the things. What you want more of me, what you want less of Josh and everything in between. We'll be talking a lot about it. So just go to bit.ly slash creator upload survey and make our lives way easier. Exactly. Thanks for being with us all these years. Now go fill out the survey. bit.ly slash creator upload survey. That's bit.ly slash creator upload survey. Welcome to Creator Upload, your Creator Economy podcast. I'm Lauren Schnipper. And I'm Joshua Cohen. Lauren, it was great to see you last night. Live from New York City. I am in New York City.

1:18You're back in Jersey in the basement attic where you belong. But saw you last night in New York. It's always, you know, it was weird. At the end of the evening, Josh like kind of gave me the hand kind of hug thing. He's got a very dry palm. He needs some moisturizer. I was like, it was like, I was like, I was like a corpse. It was like, it was like a skeleton bone. I was like, so just throw that out there. I'm in New York for the holidays. We're going to gloss over that. He knows it's true. Notice how he's not saying anything

1:48Sam Gutelle:because he knows he needs to moisturize. Listeners, I'm not going to mention the quality of Lauren's skin on her hands out of respect and just, and just, I don't think it's the thing you're interested in hearing about. If you are, email us info at creatorupload.com, give you a full report. So last night I was party hopping. I went to three different things. Oakland's Distilled with Phillips is an investment bank that she does a little work for, a little advising and creator companies that want to sell. So when I stopped by their holiday party, oh, the apps were great. I'm so sad I couldn't stay for the rest of the dinner and the people were great too.

2:21But I'm just saying the apps were amazing. Then I went to Frank Jung's event. He has a company, a networking giant community called FMC. It was really cool. Saw the likes of our friend Sean Atkins, who's the president and CEO of Dhar Mann, who's been on this podcast before, and a bunch of other folks. And then went to the Smooth Media holiday party last night where I saw you and a bunch of other people. What a night. What a time. Schlepping around the city, party hopping like I was in my early 20s again in New York City. I mean, what a time.

2:51Sam Gutelle:Feels good. Feels good. It's great. Um, switching gears a little bit. I really do. We were off last week for Thanksgiving and we, as a result, um, did not get to discuss the finale of Dancing with the Stars, which, um, here's the thing. This is the, they did the most. So as we know, just to back up, Dancing with the Stars has blown up this season because they really embraced the whole creator of it all. started back when charlie d 'amelio was on as a contestant a couple years ago they really leaned into it they did a whole tiktok devoted tiktok episode talking about how amazing tiktok was it was it was a bit of a propaganda moving on they have a companion podcast they have a live show on tiktok during the actual show broadcast but this was the craziest thing that was amazing so one of the couples whitney lovett and mark ballas mark ballas is an un he's the best he is the OG, he's unbelievable, was partnered with this woman who was from The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, a show I've never watched.

3:48But you could argue she's like, you know, kind of a creator influencer because she started off on like mom talk with the dancing or whatever. Well, evidently, she's a bit of a villain of the show. And what I didn't know, because I don't like watch this, is that around episode five of Dancing with Stars, I guess the latest season came out where she very publicly said, I'm only coming back to whatever, I think the third season of Secret Lives because she wants to get on Dancing with the Stars. And this began this unbelievable backlash. Like she's using these women to like just become famous, like famously, like, you know, when you go on The Bachelor and they're like, you're not here for the right reasons.

4:26Sam Gutelle:Yeah. We need to take a step back that anybody who's on a fucking reality show is there for the fame, the glory, and the money. Anybody and everybody. But these people, Mark Ballas and Whitney Levitt, were getting vile. I mean, disgusting hate because of this. Like, beyond, beyond. And she, but what, so what ended up happening is, and not to mention she's phenomenal and was an incredible dancer, whatever. So she gets voted off the second to last episode. She doesn't get to do it in the finale. And in the finale, what everybody waits for is you get to do your freestyle dance, which is just the culmination of everything.

5:01And it's incredible. So guess what they did? So they do the finale. Robert Irwin, who was amazing and won, wins. ABC partnered with Alex Cooper from Call Her Daddy, did a sit-down interview with Mark Ballas and Whitney talking about all this, but wait for it. And then at the very end, they got to do their freestyle. And not only did they get to do their freestyle, they did it in a way that was so much more cinematic than they would have on the show. Not because they had a lot of time. They apparently had 72 hours, but there was no audience. They were phenomenal. Like number one, just let's just talk about that.

5:38But like the use of, I am just in awe of Dancing with the Stars right now. The fact that, because by the way, it definitely, I feel badly for the Robert Irwin who actually won because it kind of like stole all the thunder, like in terms of like his win. And like, but the fact that they, you know, I work with a lot of media companies right now who are trying to figure out how to like embrace, you know, digital. And And one of the things that they get very nervous about is like, let's say they have like a traditional kind of show that's been on broadcast and that's been on for a long time. And they're like, well, what if we do the, you know, an idea is like, what if we do the digital version of that?

6:13And then there's, you know, sort of anxiety around, well, what if that becomes bigger than the actual show? And my answer to that is like, who cares? It might. And it might as well be you. And the fact that ABC embraced this and partnered with Alex Cooper, who is, in effect, a creator, and let them sit down and then did this finale, which absolutely is cannibalizing the show, but not really because it's making the show everywhere. I mean, it is so unbelievably brilliant. I am in awe of this whole thing. Like, I can't even believe it. And on a side note, as Mark Ballas said, people need to calm the fuck down.

6:50It's a dancing show. Like literally calm down. Like the vile hate that these people were getting. It's a dancing show. You know what I mean? But I just think how they embrace this. It is. Oh, and by the way, she's now going to be starring as Roxy Hart on Broadway in Chicago, which I've seen that show a million times, but not like 20 years. And that's a show that famously like, well, they've had a lot of former Dancing with the Stars people on it. And they like, you know, I'll do a lot of sort of stunt casting. I might go see the show. I might go see the show.

7:17Sam Gutelle:I think this is really interesting for a few reasons. First, looking at the numbers here, Dancing with the Stars crushed it. Their season 33 finale drew 6.37 million viewers. Their season 34 finale, the one we're talking about, drew 9.24 million viewers. No, I mean, in today's world in broadcast television, that is unheard of. Unheard of. Yeah. I think, like, I want to give them credit. I get it for embracing all of this in really smart ways. I also think this is just, like, the natural evolution. Like, who else are they going to have in the show? No, I do. But but but I think that the embracing of it, though, you're you're glossing over too much because I'm telling you because I'm working with some of these folks like they're they're reticent to embrace it.

7:58Or if they if they want to, they don't know how and they're nervous and they're taking too long. And like they are just I don't know if it's a new team. I don't know who it is, but they're just going with it. And like, by the way, putting something together like that and the speed that they that they put it together is not unheard of in our world. It is unheard of in traditional broadcast media.

8:18Sam Gutelle:Yes, that's totally fair. I also think. And so the fact that they got a team and they just let them because there's no time for approvals and there's no time for whatever. And the fact that they did this. And again, they like they said vocally, like, well, I don't know. I believe it just lived as far as I've seen on the Internet. It's only living on the call her daddy page. So it's not living on ABC channels. But the fact that they're even giving that to that. I mean, it's I I can't stress what a big deal and how this is breaking down the sort of institutional rules of these kind of traditional broadcast shows.

8:49It is it is literally like they're running around naked in the middle of the street. That's the equivalent. I'm not even kidding. Like, it's crazy.

8:58Sam Gutelle:I think what is really worthwhile calling out here is the extent of this partnership with Caller Daddy and Dancing with the Stars. so one it's performing very well it has 3.8 million views in the last seven days I've watched it like 10 times go on where the rest of the Call Her Daddy videos on YouTube they're not doing nothing they have several hundreds of thousands of views but this is the only one in the millions within the last month or so and also they're utilizing YouTube's new collaboration feature where the video if you look at it if you go to Call Her Daddy's page and then click on the Dancing with the Stars video it says it's uploaded by Call Her Daddy and Dancing with the Stars which I think is just this really interesting way for YouTube to allow people to collaborate and kind of validate their collaborations way more effectively.

9:48Sam Gutelle:I think I'm more interested in watching this if I'm a casual viewer to know that Dancing with the Stars is their like official mark on it and I can see that when I'm watching the video than if this was just a Call Her Daddy the episode but conversely they're taking a risk dancing with the stars putting their name on it because they're not getting the level i guarantee they're not getting they're 100 % not getting the level of approval that they would normally get and certainly not the you know they don't because there's no time there's literally simply no time to like to put it through all the channels so it's um i i think this is a it's the right term watershed moment i think this is like a huge I think this is one of those moments that is melding and fusing kind of traditional media and creators and influencers, whatever you want to call it, in a way that we are going to see the ripple effects and in a good way, maybe sometimes bad way, like for years to come.

10:43I think this is a moment. This is a huge, huge moment that the fact that they did this, like as fast as they did it and how they did it. And, you know, and I think to credit, you know, Alex Cooper, because clearly they wouldn't have done it with, you know, a talent and somebody who they don't think would do it justice. Right. And she's obviously built up a huge, you know, very valid business on her own. And but she's got it. I mean, I know people that work that she's got a team behind her. She's not, you know, sitting there, you know, she's not some fool in a bedroom with a mic like, you know, some people we know.

11:14You know what I mean? Like she's got some stuff going on. But like, I don't know. I'm like, I'm just I think it's incredible.

11:21Sam Gutelle:I imagine 35 is going to have a lot more collaborations between Call Her Daddy, Alex Cooper and Dancing with the Stars. 100%. And also, do you think she did this as a little bit of a dig at Alex Earl? Right. Right. So people that don't know, Alex Earl used to be in the she was like the first kind of kind of person other than Alex Cooper that was in the call her daddy kind of universe. And then they parted ways. One would probably assume not in the best of terms. Maybe. And Alex Earl was on the show and Alex Earl was on the Dancing with her. Did well. She did not win. I think she was like the first runner up or whatever, but she.

11:54Yeah.

11:55Sam Gutelle:And the betting markets called it early. Robert Irwin was an early favorite. he was and he was phenomenal but like um i hate at this kind of this kind of this kind of stole his thunder i'm not gonna lie yeah you know i mean it's like you know when clay aiken didn't win american idol and reuben stutter did clay aiken went on to have the bicker career i mean sometimes not winning is the best thing you can do you know what i mean sometimes not winning is winning sometimes he is winning we already won um i will say they did just release their holiday and they did a holiday special dancing okay we're done we're done let's just move on let's just move on so good i can't get enough i can't get stop they did a hanukkah they did a hanukkah dance it's so good this wonderful installment of creator upload is brought to you by viral nation viral nation is a leading global social media marketing and creator agency with a social first approach powered by its brand safe technology viral nation powers global growth for brands like elf cosmetics audible a24 mgm resorts international Microsoft Meta, Tencent, Zillow, and Walmart, redefining how brands engage and thrive in an ever-evolving digital world.

13:03Sam Gutelle:Take your content to new heights with Viral Nation. Okay, we need to talk about Spotify. They have a lot of new features that are coming out. I'm all over my Instagram feed is like, they're showing you like what age you are based on the music that you watch. But one of the other things that they've done that I think is really interesting, they've done this sort of creator rap. So like you as an actual creator who like, like let's say has like either music or a podcast on the space, can sort of see your stats as it relates to the rest of the sort of Spotify universe. And I don't know, I'd be remiss not to talk about the creator upload Spotify stats.

13:36Josh, allow me. We, creator upload, have a 26 % increase in followers on the platform, 35 % increase in listening time, 58 countries are listening to us, and we are in the top 10 % of videos on the platform. And wait a minute. We have more comments on our stuff than 95 % of shows and more shares than 97 % of shows. So I just want to say thank you to Spotify. Thank you to our listeners in all 58 countries. And that's kind of crazy, actually. We've been doing this, it'll be six years. As we said at the top, we have a survey out right now that we want people to fill out because we're trying to figure out what you want more of, what you want less of.

14:18and this is like a big deal. But what do you think about all the Spotify wrapped business, Josh?

14:23Sam Gutelle:Lauren, this is the obvious next generation in an ingenious marketing scheme that brings video into the Spotify fold of their wrapped event. And I think it's happening at an interesting time because this is also the first year that YouTube is introducing their own version of Spotify wrapped. It's called YouTube Recap. They announced it earlier this week, but it hasn't rolled out to everyone yet. I think that's kind of a miss. I think you should announce the thing and then have it be available to all users rather than the slow rollout because then people are confused. Like, do they have it yet?

14:55Sam Gutelle:Do they not have it yet? Where is it? Et cetera. But in any case, the YouTube recap is a set of 12 cards that spotlight top channels, interests, and the evolution of your viewing habits and which personality type you fall into based on the videos you love to watch. It shows which creators you consume the most of, which artists you've watched the most of their music videos and more. There's also different types of superlatives you get, like the skill builder, the sunshiner, the trailblazer. Little fun thing for the end of the year for people who consume a lot of YouTube. And it's about time. I don't understand why every single social media platform and online video platform doesn't do this or hasn't done this since Spotify originated this several years ago.

15:41Sam Gutelle:I think all of them are basically starting to. Lauren, you and I saw a sneak peek of another one that's going to be launching soon last night. We did see a sneak peek of one last night. I wish I could tell you more people, but we did. How exciting. And I think it's going to be coming soon. Maybe that platform can come talk about it. But like Netflix should also be obviously doing this. Tubi should be doing this. Everybody should be doing this. It's really easy earned media. I know. But if Prime did this, it would be quite embarrassing how many times I watched The Summer I Turn Pretty in like specific episodes.

16:11Sam Gutelle:Amazon should do this on your consumption habits. I think Prime would literally in my rap to be like, you have a problem. Like, really. Like in a nutshell. I think let's not keep this contained to just entertainment properties and platforms. Let's expand this out to all kind of consumption on the internet. Like, I want to see my Amazon regular store. Yeah, but Amazon would never do that because then you would realize you need to stop. You know what I mean? So, like, I think that they're smart. They could. They're just like, no, we don't want to tell Josh how bad it is. that's totally fair yeah no i think it's right lauren speaking of things that are happening year and twitch just released its very own year and recap and a lot of interesting things are happening on the platform i'm excited to bring on two filters very own sam gattel who's been covering this beat and this particular component of this twitch beat for a while now i'm excited to talk to him and for you all to hear what's going on two filters very own sam gattel thank Thank you once again for joining the program.

17:13Sam Gutelle:It is lovely to have you. Thank you, Josh and Lauren, for having me. 2025 was a big year for Twitch. There were 900 million hours of watch time. It accrued during the calendar year. There were 45 billion chat messages, 9 million new streamers, including Justin Bieber, which is wild, that number. A few notable names were on the top of Twitch's year-end review list. Kai Sinat and Ibai both delivered the top streaming moments just like they did in 2024. And just chatting still remains the most popular category on Twitch. It's been that for years now, surpassing gaming. Must be like half a decade or more ago now.

17:57Sam Gutelle:But what's interesting about 2025 and Twitch is that there has been this new breed of streamer that's developed and kind of taken the spotlight that I think we're going to see a lot more of, and that is athletes. Sam, I want to have you on so you could tell us all about this new phenomenon. Well, Josh, this came to my attention when I saw Cam Scadabo from the Giants was live on Twitch, even though he's out for the season with an ankle injury. And I thought that was very interesting because he's using Twitch to keep himself in the public eye, even though he can't be on the field. It's a way of building his brand and it speaks to what athletes have to do these days in order to get those big money contracts and stay relevant in these hyper competitive pro leagues.

18:41Sam Gutelle:And so do you think Cam Scadabo is doing this because he wants to maintain his image? Do you think like that's how he's thinking about this? Are you thinking he's just like bored and this is something for him to do? It's probably both. You know, if you're going to be in the NFL, you're going to have to get used to being a public figure. And he is a rookie. So that's something that, you know, even though he was a star in college at Arizona State, It's pretty new for him to have this much attention from all over the country and all over the world, really, heaped on him. So while I do think he's doing it for the love of the game, as they say, I could also see this as a form of media training almost for NFL players and other pro athletes.

19:25Was he doing this while he because NIL would would have been around when he was at least partly in college. You said he's a rookie. Forgive me. I'm not familiar with this particular player. but um was he doing this while he was in college in other words i wonder this sounds like it could be a trend we're going to get at college athletes coming into like professional level sports having like you know kind of the training to your point media training and like social media training know how to like sort of you know translate that into like a bigger kind of thing so i'm just curious if he was doing it before not that i'm aware of if he was he certainly wasn't streaming to nearly as large of an audience as he is now yeah but you know one thing that i think is interesting when you look at nil is that the people who are getting most popular as college athlete streamers or creators are not necessarily the best athletes right and in fact sometimes the viewers are more interested in seeing the perspectives of the volleyball players the gymnasts the people who aren't going to be on espn every weekend it's also like the opportunity for cam if you're spending a lot of time um doing that instead of like working on your craft for example maybe you're probably not going to end up in professional level sports.

20:34I'm just throwing it out there.

20:36Sam Gutelle:And so what's different here, Sam, what I hear you saying is Cam Scadabo actually was one of the best rookies in the league, was out early with a season-ending injury, and we haven't seen that caliber of player really dive this far deep into online video, social media, programming on a consistent basis yet. So we have seen it, but it's certainly becoming more popular and more common. One notable example was Juju Smith-Schuster as an NFL wide receiver, and he was part of that stream with Ninja, Tyler Blevins, and Drake, this stream that broke a lot of records on Twitch. I think that was back in 2019.

21:16And then more recently, there is a big soccer star, Kun Aguero, from Argentina. He had to retire due to a heart condition. And what did he do in his post-career move? He went on Twitch. And so I think people like Juju and Aguero, they were the pioneers now that are leading the way for people like Cam Scadabo. And even you see people like LeBron getting involved in Kaysenat's Mafia-thon. This is going all the way up to the top, top level of pro sports now. And that's something that we saw more in 2025 than in previous years.

21:47Sam Gutelle:totally so just twitch becoming more of a cultural phenomenon that's attracting these other individuals who are in popular culture by way of sports but then also like it's their own peer group too like scam cam scatter was 23 years old he's probably grew up watching a lot of these people or at least being aware of them and understanding kind of how the twitch game works it seems like it's also like one it's easy for him to get into it because maybe he was a fan of this and sees other people's stream so knows how it's done and then two it's just easier than any other type of social media if you have the time right yeah i think that twitch is a natural fit for an athlete because competition is in twitch's dna i mean this is a platform that started as a way to broadcast esports and other high-level video game gameplay So even though, as you said, just chatting has become the most popular category on Twitch, there still is that cultural connection, which we saw first with OG FaZe Clan, where they were really saying, we're gamers, but we're going to look like athletes big and strong, and you're going to see us go to the gym and play sports with each other.

23:00That created this connection that now athletes like SCAT are taking advantage of. So Sam, question for you here. For Skadabo, is it Giants fans that are watching him?