Inside Meta's Massive Settlement and the Future of Premium Brand Entertainment (feat. Zach Blume)

15:33Joshua Cohen:So 70 % First of all, it has to be paid over 10 years. So like 10 years,$18 billion, not a lot of money for Meta. 70%, roughly$12.7 billion is guaranteed. The remaining$5.3 billion is contingent on competitors adopting comparable protections and making comparable payments. So there's this incentive built into this. If other major platforms adopt these standards, the protections get stricter. The daily limit would fall to one hour, perhaps. Night mode would expand from midnight to 6 a.m. to 10 p.m. to 7 a.m. and the time limit Nightbone commitment would also extend to 10 years. So basically Meta said, okay, we'll do this sort of minimum viable.

16:12Joshua Cohen:But if all these other platforms like TikTok and YouTube do this stuff too, fine, we'll give you a little bit more and we'll give you more money. So what is Meta now doing? They're going on this massive blitz, taking out ads everywhere, trying to like publicly, I feel like shame TikTok and YouTube to commit to these type of changes, which I have, it's so fascinating what they're doing and how they did this. And part of me loves it. Part of me like thinks it's insane. Anyway, second soliloquy monologue done of the episode. Josh, can you comment on this, please?

16:46Lauren Schnipper:So Lauren, this minimum viable payment product and plan as part of the settlement, it really, I find it really irksome because it's like, if they think that this is going to be better for teens and better for the social wellbeing and fabric of the youth of our country, and the world. It seems like they would want to implement it to the greatest degree possible. I get that they're also beholden to shareholders and they don't want to lose a leg up on competition that might not do, quote, the right thing, unquote here. But I feel like this is an odd way to go about doing it. It's also ingenious in some respects because any kind of policy change, product change that goes in this direction or lean towards benefiting teens, Meta can then take credit for.

17:29Lauren Schnipper:Compelling YouTube to do it. compelling TikTok to do it. Right. For these other platforms following their lead. So I can't, again, it's like ingenious, but also insidious, which I think summarizes a lot of what Meta does as a company. Yes. Where they're very smart and calculated with this.

17:46Joshua Cohen:Excuse me. Justin, that was a great way of putting it. Go off.

17:49Lauren Schnipper:Thank you. You're welcome.

17:51Joshua Cohen:Because they can effectively take credit for what you're saying. It's so true. They can effectively take credit for YouTube and TikTok making these changes, which by the way, YouTube and TikTok should do these things because no, yeah,$17 billion is a rounding error. But like they ain't trying to get those settlements like every year. And this is these like now other, you know, there's going to be people are going to be empowered to continue pursuing lawsuits. And you know what I mean? Unless this has changed.

18:15Lauren Schnipper:And I think also Wall Street didn't seem to care about this at all. Meta's stock was flat or up incrementally on the news.

18:22Joshua Cohen:This is a very there's a there's a term for this, which I'm not going to which is basically like Like when there's sort of this uncertainty, the stop goes down. And as soon as they have like a definitive answer, barring that they told them to shut down or something terrible, they're like, oh, rounding error. Back up. I'm going to invest in the company now. You know what I mean? So there's an actual there's a term in finance for this that I'm that somebody will tell us what it is.

18:44Lauren Schnipper:Yes. And Wall Street doesn't seem to care about the money and they don't seem to think that implementing any of these types of precautions and provisions to limit the amount of time teens are on meta platforms is going to have any profound impact on the revenue the company is able to generate.

18:59Joshua Cohen:Right. Well, that's what's very interesting. And because I think the reason being is that, and the problem with all of this is the technology moves infinitely faster than legislation or policy can keep up with. So even if they implement all of these things, you know, they trust Meta will figure out a way around it is the message that I think is being sent. Like, great, fine. Oh, and look, Meta even is going to look like the good guy because they're going to get everybody else to do this. And then people are going to maybe even be more endeared to the product because they're like, look, they're protecting our kids.

19:29And, you know, so it's I'm not heartened by this.

19:34Joshua Cohen:Like, I think that this is so egregious what has been allowed to happen with our kids. And it's also just like so true the extent to which it's just been proven over and over again how much men knew harm was happening. So one of the things there's a guy named Brian Boland who was at Facebook for like I think of like a decade or something. And he was scheduled to testify. And he wrote a big sort of piece on this, I think, on his own substack or something like that. And I read it. One of the things that he said is that effectively litigation, which is what this was, kind of punishes what happened in the past.

20:06Joshua Cohen:But the only thing that can help moving forward is legislation. So there's two bills sitting in the Senate right now. One is the Platform Accountability and Transparency Act from Senators Coons and Cassidy would force platforms to open their data to independent researchers and disclose how their ranking and recommendation systems work. And two, the algorithmic accountability app from Senators Wyden and Booker would require companies to assess their automated systems for harm and report those assessments to the FTC. Neither bill has received a floor vote. And his words, this should embarrass every member of Congress.

20:36Joshua Cohen:And I think it should embarrass Americans. Like, this is ridiculous how that there's been no legislation around this. And I am not one for a ton of regulations. But like, I do believe that cigarettes shouldn't be for, you know, sold to kids under 18. I do believe that we should wait till 16 until people get licensed. Like, there are certain things like that we know. I mean, when we were kids, seapults were not, you know, required. And now that's like insane. You know, car seats were not required for babies. That's now insane. Like this will be that except worse. It's going to be more like the tobacco industry.

21:08Joshua Cohen:I mean, everybody's used that comparison. Like I said, Meta is doing a blitz right now in terms of ads, urging TikTok and YouTube to follow its leave. evidently it's planning to run full-page ads in the washington post the los angeles times the new york times on thursday um and just and they again on their own instagram sort of instagram profile urging the other platforms to adopt these um restrictions as well and then they will do more so again to your point they can take the credit and then um yeah you know but they're not going

21:38Lauren Schnipper:to do it without that it's just it's like you know and i get the point of them perhaps paying more if these other companies agree to enforce similar policies. But the idea that they would change the product only if these other companies - Only if that's what's so gross. Would agree. It's like there's no other blatant way to show we appreciate shareholder value over the health and well-being of teenagers on our platform. It's just, it's so gross.

22:04Joshua Cohen:It's so gross. And I'm, you know, I always have this thing where I'm like, bad guys don't think they're bad. And I don't understand it's, you know, how these folks who we're not, you know, I've met a lot of them. I've worked with a lot of them. You know, I had good experiences when I'm there. But like, I think also when I was there, like we didn't necessarily know better. Right. Like we know better now. Like there were so many teen teams that were like propping up when I was there because it was like, oh, we're getting older. Like we need to drive adoption for younger folks, which like makes a ton of sense.

22:33Joshua Cohen:And at the time, I didn't think that there was anything wrong with that. Because of course, if you age out, like we're not going to have a problem. We're not going to have any users. So like, there you go. But like now we know better, guys. We know what this is doing. It's very disheartening. On the heels of that, so there's been some reporting in this rag called Tube Filter about Australia and their social media ban. And according that you guys published an article saying that according to data provided by Custodio, Australian kids and teens are still accessing their favorite social media apps, even after officials in Canavera, which is, I think, the Australian capital, kick those under-18s off their accounts.

23:10Joshua Cohen:Among some age groups, social media has actually gone, usage has actually gone up, suggesting that Australia's law may be accomplishing the opposite of what it was meant to do. I just want to, you know, I'm a big disciple of Jonathan Haidt, author of The Inxious Generation. And back in July, he published a whole article basically saying that folks are sort of saying this isn't working, but you're not looking at this in the right way. So he said, in short, studies that measured any use of any covered platform found relatively small declines because the law does not prohibit use or access to content, while studies that measured use via an account on a specific platform found much larger declines, which is reassuring since the law sets an age minimum for certain accounts.

23:49Joshua Cohen:So multiple studies show that social media use and account use access have actually declined. Enforcement and compliance will improve over time. Privacy protection is improving. Companies are making their products safer. Better online spaces can now emerge.

24:02Lauren Schnipper:And so Lauren, what I'm hearing you say here is that Australia introduced this ban to prohibit anyone under the age of 16 from accessing an account on these social media platforms.

24:11Joshua Cohen:For ownership, for owning an account, owning an account.

24:14Lauren Schnipper:And so then these under 16 year olds are maybe using social media more, but going through a public interface like TikTok.com and not logging in or Instagram.com and not logging in or YouTube.com and not logging in. And maybe perhaps that increases up, which I think would make sense if you tell kids not to do something, maybe they're going to want to go check it out a little bit more. but that the actual accounts created and activity on those accounts has decreased compared to what it was before the pandemic.

24:44Joshua Cohen:Yeah. I mean, he said so he's he cited a survey by eSafety and the Australian regulator. He asked about they asked about account ownership for specific service and found drops in 30 to 36 percent across Facebook, TikTok, Instagram and Snapchat. out. Something called the Molly Rose Foundation found that 39 percent of users ages 12 to 15 who previously had accounts no longer had an account on any service with drops of roughly 40 to 50 percent for specific services. The reason why I think this is really significant is that there's been countless sort of studies where like, you know, you say you're a 13 year old girl and you go on Snapchat and let's say you don't even look anything within two seconds, you're getting ads for like cutting and body dysmorphia and all this terrible stuff.

25:24Joshua Cohen:So you can't you're not able if If you don't have an account yourself, you're maybe less likely to see harmful content that's directed towards.

25:31Lauren Schnipper:The platform isn't going to be able to create an algorithm for you. You're not going to be able to DM or correspond with people who you should or shouldn't be corresponding with. But you're still going to have access to the platforms. You're just going to be able to utilize all the features. And many of those features, I guess time will tell. But presumably the individual algorithms, the being the DMing and more you have when you have an account contributed to more of the negative body images, the more of the not positive parts of being on these.

26:00Joshua Cohen:Yeah. I mean, think about like the 13, 14 year old girls who, you know, posting like sexy pics and like all the, you know, and that that's not happening as much because they don't have their own account. Right. And so like they might be watching some content on there. But so I think it's a net positive. Is it perfect? No. we see that we're far from perfect but um but i think i i don't i and it's also can't it's still early days we're in like the first year of this right so i think detractors of all of this would

26:26Lauren Schnipper:say hey it doesn't matter that facebook did this it doesn't matter that australia did this kids are going to find a way online anyway and then people who look more closely at the data might say you know one we're early and two it's working in ways that just aren't being reported yeah i mean just

26:39Joshua Cohen:i think there's also just going to be less of a like want and desire for kids to have like phones earlier if they know that they can't like snap their friends immediately on day one or something like that, you know, or if they're going to get like a dumb phone because it's like, well, it doesn't matter. I can't get a snap account anyway, you know, whatever. So I'm holding out for the long data. I'm here with a long tail man. Okay, Josh, let's get to our interview with Zach Bloom. Welcome Zach Bloom again to Creator Upload. I'm so happy to be back. I did a LinkedIn comment asking when I would be back and voila, magic.

27:11Joshua Cohen:Was that like six months ago when you did that? No, it was when I saw Ben Relis or one of the Bens got invited back. And I was like, wow, they actually do repeat. I mean, Ben Relis. Yeah, well, he's special. Not with everybody. Yes, he's special. All right. Well, first, before I get into a lot of questions to you, can you tell everybody what Portal A is at a very high level? Portal A is a creative and production company that has started as the new kids on the block and now we're the OGs of the creator economy, making branded and original content built for YouTube and social platforms. What was really the impetus for you having you back on is that you did a LinkedIn post the other day that cited two of those sort of, I don't know, campaigns.

28:00Joshua Cohen:You'll tell me what exactly what it was. I want more details. We're on like the cover of The Hollywood Reporter, if I'm not mistaken. And it was, you know, talking a lot. That article was talking a lot about sort of brands as the new studios. So first, tell us about these two campaigns and how you guys ended up in The Hollywood Reporter. so yeah so the hollywood reporter ran a big piece on um uh the entertainment landscape and the role brands are playing um in this new world order especially as um yeah hollywood's kind of searching for its next chapter and its new business models etc um and you know obviously viewing habits are moving to youtube and all that type of stuff um and yeah they talked about a lot of projects in the story but two of the projects they talked about back to back were projects that we produced um one of which both were car brands um one of which was with toyota racing um and it was a original series uh with kareem rama as the host and featuring all sorts of different toyota racing drivers it was um in the style of a late night show um the twist was there was a live pit crew that was like kind of going through the show and like you know topping off people's coffee coffees and doing all sorts of sketches and stuff like that um and yeah it was like you know four episode series we're hoping for another season tons of content around social across social but really a brand you know playing the role of um you know almost like a a studio that's like financing an original series um and then the second project was with lexus and is actually still ongoing and that one was with colin and samir and totally different premise this was more of a kind of like documentary travel series called colin and samir start over um shot across the country beautiful beautiful photography beautiful um footage and all about um colin and samir's journey in the Lexus GS 550, I think it is.

30:07It's a beautiful car. Kind of exploring their creativity and their story.

30:12Joshua Cohen:So I think, you know, three words that, you know, even a couple of years ago, you would not have seen together are sort of premium entertainment and YouTube. I think, my guess is this is largely brought on by the fact that, you know, the fastest growing device that folks are watching YouTube is connected TVs, this whole push for YouTube to sort of be the new TV. And then how do they work? And then brands sort of picking up on this and becoming studios. Like, how have you seen this evolve in the world? I mean, you guys have been around, you know, you're like the grandpas of this space because you've been around a really long time.

30:46Joshua Cohen:And this is not, I mean, I would venture to say you would agree that this is not something that like, this is a much harder conversation to have with brands a few years ago, right? Like, how have you seen that evolve? What are you seeing from brands in terms, are you having to convince them to do this kind of work or you're sort of are they kind of coming to you being like dude we have to do this sort of premium content on youtube the previous chapter i would say to to simplify it the previous chapter in the creator economy had really been defined by you know in terms of the way brands are investing in it had been defined by scale programmatic performance marketing tactics almost like media buying across the creator economy you know the kind of renting space buying space the rise of the you know massive influencer marketing agencies which are effectively media agencies for the creator economy buying media across creator channels is an indicator of that so that you know it's not that there wasn't any more premium work happening it's just the predominant methodology approach whatever you want to call it was basically scaled media that I think is changing and I think the media mix is now starting to reflect what you see more from the traditional world which is a healthy balance of scaled programmatic performance type media buying with brand marketing and more premium work that is designed to like you know have a deeper connection with the audience to be more lasting to tell a deeper story etc so we're seeing in that same kind of mix starting to mature in the creator economy and um i think the reason why is there's been a saturation of just i mean all of us feel it just like sponsored by post ad reads it's just you know unavoidable unavoidable we're all skipping through it etc um and then i think there's been some proactive efforts like youtube going to brandcast and saying you know this is our slate of premium shows and they should be nominated for Emmy Awards and we're going to sponsor the Clio Awards which is like you know one of the advertising world's biggest awards festival all these steps that YouTube is taking to signal we are a premium platform people watch us on TVs we're competing with Netflix we're not competing with Instagram has led to a lot of interest in more of that type of content.

33:11And so, yeah, the set, the, the sale with air quotes is much easier because there's a narrative that has developed, um, around YouTube being a place for premium content, brands having a role to play in that. Um, and that's, yeah, it's been great for us. It's, it's what we've been preaching for 15 years because we're grandpas.

33:33Joshua Cohen:I mean, that's the At least you can admit it. All right. Well, I'm really excited to see what's next. So what are some campaigns coming up for you guys that people should look out for? I should say work. Original content. It doesn't have to be campaigns. I'm not trying to put you in a box, Portal A. Keep going. Yeah. Don't put us in a box. Yeah. We have lots of stuff. I mean, we have like a second season of an original series of Lego that we're super excited about. a series called brick click which is a pure youtube series um kind of in the vein of like old nickelodeon shows but built for youtube um we have uh more episodes of that lexus series that i talked about with colin and samir coming out uh next week um we have um a second season hopefully knocking on wood of our kareem rama show toyota pit stop tonight um we have uh our creator odyssey which is a lenovo project which has been recognized by a bunch of premium festivals like uh tribeca and brand storytelling at sundance that's coming back for actually a fourth season so yeah there's a lot of like recurring episodic actual like properties or pieces of IP that brands are continuing to invest in.

34:57And that's what we're most excited about.

34:58Joshua Cohen:I actually just think it's a really big and exciting indication of like how brands are working across the space and like how brands should continue to work off the space to get, you know, there's, there's various levels of kind of, it's not, it's not a one size fits all. I think brands should be investing in creators and digital content in various different ways. And I love that you guys are sort of sitting in the space we're sitting in. All right, Zach Bloom, Thank you so much for coming back on Creator Upload. It's been a pleasure. So much respect for Schnipper and Cohen, the Schnipper and Cohen show.

35:28Love listening. It's been a joy and a pleasure being here.

35:32Joshua Cohen:Thank you, Zach. Always a pleasure to have you on the podcast. Love that guy. Love that guy. What is not to love? Josh, do you have any uploads or downloads?

35:41Lauren Schnipper:Lauren, quick upload for you in the carcinization of the internet where everything is evolving to look like the same thing. YouTube just announced that it is expanding its stations beyond music and into the realm of creator content. What are stations? Great question. YouTube developed these stations that are like fast channels, basically. YouTube first rolled stations out with music-focused channels focused on Coachella. And now they said, hey, that did pretty good. We're going to bring this to more formats. So from a YouTube help thread, quote, formats like creator content, media channels, podcasts, and select new music artists will be covered in this new stations expansion.

36:22Lauren Schnipper:Stations lets you watch collections of videos from your favorite creators as an always-on lean back viewing experience. You can watch and engage in real time with other fans in the live chat, making it feel like a shared viewing room. While we started this pilot with a small group of music artists, you'll now start seeing stations for a wide variety of new types of content. So YouTube wasn't in the fast game before in the same way that these other services are, like Roku, Samsung TV, and others, now seems like it's getting in the Fast Channels game too.

36:50Joshua Cohen:I mean, what is it not getting into? What is it not getting into? All right, Josh, I think we did it.

36:54Lauren Schnipper:Lauren, I think that's it. I'll see you trying out some new voice modulators so people can't clue in your actual real voice. I'm screwed.

37:02Joshua Cohen:Yes.

37:03Lauren Schnipper:End of thought there next week on Creator Upload. Today's show was produced by Lauren Schnipper, Joshua Cohen, that's me, and Adam Conner. It's edited by Adam Conner 2. Original music is by London Bridge. You can check them out on Instagram at London Bridge Music. Make sure you subscribe to Creator Upload right here on YouTube, on Apple Podcasts, as well as Spotify or wherever you're listening. While you're there, give us a rating and leave us a comment. If you want to talk, hit us up at info at creatorupload.com. If you like our show, recommend it to a friend. If you love it, just tell everyone.

37:29Lauren Schnipper:Thanks for listening to Creator Upload, and we will be back next week.