Is LinkedIn the Future for Creators? | Alex Josephson, VP of Brandworks for LinkedIn, Explains

21:37Alex Josephson:Well, I think there's so many things I want to sort of double click on. Yeah, please. Let's get into it. So the first thing is like, you know, as well known, I worked at Facebook for a long time. And my experience at a platform was that if you didn't start with scale, that there was you could get no traction. And one of the things that from my vantage point externally, looking at what you guys have been doing at LinkedIn, what I love is it seems like you're not you're starting with impact that will lead to scale versus like, you know, you didn't announce how many people are in their sort of 360 program.

22:05Alex Josephson:But I would venture to guess it's not like the thousands. Right. And so it seems to me I always have believed that, like, yes, you could start with scale to get to even bigger scale. But like I also think that there's a real kind of argument to start again with real impact and do it right. And then you kind of grow. But more than that, like if you have major successes within this program, you know, that will lead to more people wanting to be like it's sort of an aspirational funnel is how I think about it. So I'd love to just talk about that philosophically. You were at Twitter and I have to imagine Twitter in the days you were there were similar to like how Facebook would where everything is scale from sort of day one.

22:41Alex Josephson:And do you feel like that's a different sort of philosophical approach at LinkedIn? So scale, I mean, scale is important. Scale is, you know. No, no, it's important. It's about how you get there, though. Like, it's not one direction necessarily. Yeah, yeah. You know, in this instance, we, over the past year, we said, let's test this model. Let's test this model because here's what we are seeing at scale. And so to be clear, there were patterns we were seeing at scale that informed even testing this model that I just walked you through, this top voices model, which were, one, well, people are creating and consuming more video content, upwards of 30 % year on year.

23:22to content whether organic or paid from individual members on the platform, a.k.a. that could be your CEO or your creator, is outperforming. It's like a two and a half X lift in engagement. And then in-stream advertising, like pre-roll advertising, when it's paired with relevant content, we're seeing completion rate lifts of 130%. versus what we typically see in the feed. And then lastly, when advertisers retarget off of those pre-roll exposures, they're seeing like an 18 % lift in the likelihood someone's going to fill out and complete like a lead generation form and like ask the advertiser to like contact them again and send them more information, right?

24:07So all of those things said, well, if we take all those ingredients and blend them together, that is going to yield what is, you know, what really is the model for Top Voices 360. We tested the model last year with, call it a couple of dozen creators and voices with several big top Fortune 500, Fortune 100 advertisers. The results for, you know, in terms of how the content performed, in terms of how the media performed for the advertisers, and in terms of how our members engage with the content, we're all up and to the right from a metric standpoint. And so now we are taking the steps to scale that.

24:51And I can actually talk a bit more specifically in terms of numbers and what it looks like. So when we think about scale now, now we're at the point of scale, right? And so now we're taking a model that's worked. And I would say advertisers are seeing what the IBMs and the SAPs did with us with volume one, what is now Top Voices 360. similarly creators and voices on the platform are looking at are looking at the ali millers the stephen bartlett's the guy ross's the candace nelson's and they're seeing those programs play out on the platform they're seeing what partnership looks like with the right brand in the right context and so a number of things we announced at new fronts are you will now be able to run brand link advertising in front of a larger swath of creator content one two we're launching in the coming weeks new features within linkedin's campaign management tool where advertisers will be able to browse and peruse a larger ecosystem of creators and voices on linkedin based on a number of signals in terms of you know who's most relevant based on the ad campaign you just ran that you might consider running your ads in front of or partnering directly with.

26:02What industry are they in? What companies do they work for? What markets are they in? You can click in and start to see their content in terms of engagement and reach and impressions and what their recent posts look like and then contact them directly for partnership. I think you're also just talking about

26:18Alex Josephson:like what you're providing. Like brands are no longer just like giving creators money for like money's sake and just like, like they want real, you're providing them with like real information data. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the reality is the B2B creator movement and dynamic. Yes, it's trailing the B2C creator movement by several years. And part of that is, I think, due to the fact that there's been this generational shift in who B2B buyers are today versus several years ago. Right. We alluded to a little earlier. But if you're in B2C, if you're marketing a chicken sandwich as an influencer, I ultimately care as a consumer, is this relevant?

27:00Is this engaging? Is it entertaining? Is it funny? i'm not thinking to myself like what's this influencer's track record when it comes to chicken sandwiches like i don't really care sure is it is you know does it does it capture my attention and and then to maybe it persuades me to like to to buy a chicken sandwich or try to talk about it um pair of sneakers new soda a lip gloss whatever it may be and b2b you know when alex kantrowitz is part of the program we ran with sap you know over the last year who's like a prolific subject matter expert in the industry and on LinkedIn when it comes to all things tech and AI.

27:37And he's posting about SAP's latest solutions and their ability to simplify infrastructure and provide a business's competitive edge. He's putting his livelihood on the line. Right.

27:50Alex Josephson:He has to have a lot of credibility. And so there's credibility there. And yes, there's a commercial element to it, but it's a different ballgame. And so where we're really seeing marketers and creators have success together is through these deeper partnerships, through these longer lasting activations versus these sort of one-off, you know, quote unquote, like, how do we go viral with like one post on this platform or another? And I think that's what I'm sort of talking about with LinkedIn in terms of philosophically. It feels deeper early on versus like, you know, I don't know, like there's a lot of movement right now to your point about like, instead of doing one-offs with creators, which has really been in terms of brand deals, the kind of the historically what we've seen, people are trying to go management, creators are trying to have more kind of impactful relationships.

28:36Alex Josephson:And it feels like LinkedIn is sort of starting from that point in a way that I feel like is different, but I get it. You guys want scale. Wait, I want to ask you. Sorry, just one more thing. Yeah. And in terms of scale, like just some numbers for you, like if it's helpful. So number volume of creators on the platform has doubled from 2021 to present day. Right. And so, number one, there were two, with the monetization channels that we've rolled out, we've tripled creator payouts on LinkedIn year on year. What does that mean? Give me a number. Give me a number. I can't give you an exact number.

29:07Give me a number, Alex. I can't give you an exact number. Triple for what?

29:10Alex Josephson:Like one to three? Like triple can be a lot of things. Yeah, we haven't disclosed our payouts. Sure, sure. But the point is we're paying creators three times more today than we were a year ago. I mean, that's better than, yeah, three times plus. Check out the names of the voices and the advertisers from season one of Top Voices 360. Does that include a rev share, though? Because you're doing rev share. Yeah. So there's rev share. So every ad that runs in front of any piece of content from any creator, there's a rev share back to that creator. And that's the pretty standard model. I spoke about how we're opening up discovery features in our ads manager to allow brands to discover creators more easily for the first time ever.

29:53And we are seeing, you know, we will launch probably with about four digits worth of creators to start. And these are all, these are not just random members on the platform. Yeah, I want to talk about that for a second.

30:08Alex Josephson:And I can talk about this. I'm really, I'm not just saying this. I'm actually a big fan of LinkedIn. and I'm so excited you guys are doing all these initiatives. But one of the things I think that's really interesting is I sort of like do a lot of work around this notion of conversion and I'm sort of obsessed with the notion that, you know, follower account basically has very little to do with like your ability to convert, right? Like it's, I hate the word engagement because what does that mean? But it really is about engagement and I believe like influence in the truest sense. And I think you were touching on that when you're talking about CEOs who are like, you know, espousing their opinions, but they have, in this space, they have to come with a lot of credibility.

30:42Alex Josephson:But relatively speaking, you know, like corporate Natalie, for example, has 286 ,000 followers on LinkedIn. And if you look at that from like in the context of the sort of YouTubers, you know, that's not that many. But I would argue that her 286 ,000 followers are probably way more engaged than somebody that might have 10x that, you know. So I just I'd love to talk about that a little bit. Does that does that make sense? It does. Yeah. It's it's it's a quality conversation, not a quantity conversation. There are like many, many channels and mediums that creators and businesses are both on. There are channels where you have signals on, hey, here is a user.

31:22We will suit. Let's assume they're a real person. They're consuming or engaging with content. We don't know anything about them. Then you have channels where you say like, OK, there here's here's a member of this platform that's created a profile. The avatar is a purple cat robot.

31:40Alex Josephson:the screen the username is magic i heard you're way into purple cat robots 13 and like yeah they watched this this webinar clip from this sas company but are they a procurement professional a cto right or yoga or yoga instructor right we don't know right then there's channels where it's like okay we see your picture and your face and this is your name and maybe your age and your email address and your gender and where you are in the world we might be able to infer what you do for a living, maybe. And then on LinkedIn, you get all of those standard signals, but we know exactly what your job title is and what company you work for and who are the other, if you're a CTO or a, you know, a procurement decision maker, we know who you're connected with and who are the HR professionals and the finance professionals and the legal professionals at your company who are also connected with, because in B2B, you can't just think about your core ICP.

32:33You need to think about all of the members of that buying group who are either going to approve or or or reject a purchase decision right and so that yes two hundred thousand dollars versus two million followers i would say all followers are not created equally no i i'm a very big

32:50Alex Josephson:believer in that um you know i was on a panel at socom a few weeks ago talking about this exact thing and i asked other than it was a lot about affiliate and how that is helping obviously indicate whether or not people can convert but i said what are the other indicators um around conversion. And they cited things like, do they complete and open a sub stack, you know, read a sub stack? Do you open an email? You know, it was not like, you know, are you like a follower on TikTok? No offense to TikTok. You know what I mean? Like it was like you it basically you're talking about like really like people that spend time with your kind of creator and whether or not that they can convert.

33:25Alex Josephson:So I just I find it fascinating. Lastly, I could again talk all day. CTV. You've got some CTV plans. You know, I know that connected TV is the fastest growing surface on YouTube. Everything is old is new again. We're all watching everything on TV. Just talk to me a little bit about LinkedIn and connected TVs. Sure. Yeah. So we've been in market with connected TV now for over a year. And what we're seeing, so just for the listeners out there, so LinkedIn connected TV ads allow advertisers to take the same audiences they're targeting on LinkedIn with all the signals we just talked about. So if you want to reach CXOs at mid-market enterprise companies on LinkedIn, we know you can do that today.

34:08What CTV ads do is allow you to then target those same members, those same decision makers off of LinkedIn when they are streaming their favorite movie, TV, sports, news content across basically the largest, most prominent streaming channels in the world paramount plus peacock roku samsung ulu fubo etc and then you can even retarget them back on on linkedin what we're finding is like advertiser say versus linear tv it's four times more cost effective they're seeing 70 incremental reach wow and then what kantar is not our data we're not creating our own homework kantar is saying would be to be audiences specifically linkedin ctv ads are driving like a 2.6 x higher lift and brand awareness versus standard ctv providers because of the relevance so b2b marketers historically have said well if i want to if i want awareness i do need to spend on tv it's very expensive and i know i'm going to accept waste because i'm not really sure yes you don't know people who might make a sass purchase decision today but i'm also reaching people who work in industries that have nothing to do with my brand product or service with our ctv product we're saying no no you can advertise with the reach and frequency of TV in a big screen, sound on captive environment, but you don't have to accept that waste.

35:26And then you can nurture down funnel service. Now it was like an early adopter of, of C of LinkedIn CTV ads. They said, yeah, they drove a 19 percentage point lift in, in brand awareness. You would expect that. But then when they retargeted off the CTV exposures back on LinkedIn with like a lead gen lower funnel format, it's like a 45 % lift in, in completion rates for leads that they can hand over to their sales team. So it's exciting. We're starting to make it available programmatically. We announced it new fronts. We're starting with a trade desk, which is, you know, the household leading platform for programmatic advertising, particularly in the CTV space.

35:59And so that's the path we're headed down. We're excited about it.

36:02Alex Josephson:I think it's really important. I think it's really something that people kind of don't talk about enough. And so I think it's fascinating. Well, Alex, it was so nice having you on the the podcast. I'm very excited about all these announcements. Where can people follow what you are sort of espousing and going to be doing on LinkedIn? Yes. So you can follow LinkedIn for marketing is probably the best way to stay up to speed. And yeah, feel free to follow me. I'm always posting about our updates and plans and the work we're doing with our advertising customers. Amazing. It's great to be here, Lauren.

36:34Thanks for having me. Really appreciate it.

36:37Alex Josephson:Awesome. Thank you so much, Alex, for coming on. Very excited to see all these initiatives come to light. So Lauren, I want to talk to you about something. Tell me. Considering how everything old is now new again, it feels like the cycle of news has been very headline heavy 2013 coded. Tell me more. At least in our ecosystem. Okay. I want to tell you about some of the recent headlines from, let's just take Variety, for instance, that have happened in the past month or so. So here's one. Alex Cooper sets YouTube reality competition show featuring Mormon wives starred Dakota Mortensen, Demi Eggman, and more polarizing figures.

37:15There's another one, Mark Norman, to present YouTube comedy series, Human Trials, which puts standup comics in front of hyper niche crowds. And then anime series featuring YouTube streamer, iShow Speed, written by one piece showrunner Matt Owens in the works of Brian Robbins, Big Shot Pictures. Now, I just want to tell you about a few shows that were announced in around the same time of year, around like during New Front's upfront season in 2013. This is from AOL's New Front presentation, once again in 2013, where it said it was gonna triple the slate of programming that it had to produce as many as 15 shows in the coming year.

37:52Those include Sarah Jessica Parker, exec producing a show called City Ballet, which is a docuseries about New York City Ballet, Hank Azaria's Fatherhood, a reality show about his experience as a new dad, and Nicole Ritchie in Candidly Nicole, based on her Twitter feed musings. Also Gwyneth Paltrow, whose second chances is about a woman who have overcome hardships and that's produced by Ryan Seacrest Productions. Also from that same timeframe, the Yahoo New Fronts promised shows from Ed Helms, Zachary Levy, John Stamos, Morgan Spurlock, Cheryl Hines, and Rachel Harris. And I want to bring those up because it's not quite the same, but it feels very similar in that back 13 years ago, there was this hype cycle right around when like New Fronts was just starting to get into kind of the mainstream entertainment ecosystem.

38:46And Hollywood thought there was a play for their big stars to get into this space. There was this onslaught of shows and these types of headlines with big established names in the Hollywood world trying to make it in the creator world. And now it's not quite the same. I mean, Mark Norman, Alex Cooper, iShowSpeed are all celebrities that have come up from this creator world, but now they're all doing very Hollywood-like productions. This is just a small portion of these types of headlines we're starting to see again at TubeFilter. I think it's showing this maturation of the ecosystem and also just this moment in time we're at where all these things seem viable again.

39:24And you have these creators in this ecosystem producing this more Hollywood-seeming content for this space that they're thinking now can get a lot of financing and or brand partnerships and or views, which make it worthwhile for them on their own channels.

39:40Alex Josephson:You know, it's really interesting. It's like, I was going to say, what this says to me is, yes, there's a maturation in the universe, but in the sort of ecosystem. But I think what this also says to me is that like media is media and it's taken a very long time for people to sort of understand that talent is talent, media is media and, you know, digital and TV is not necessarily that one is better than the other and that folks are willing to watch content across platforms. I mean, we talk a lot about connected TV and how like everything is old as new again. And people are watching things like YouTube and even LinkedIn on sort of TVs now.

40:15Alex Josephson:And what I think is interesting, though, because I was sort of looking at rough stats and I'm like, Helen, because I think on some of those announcements you were just talking in 2013 were on AOL, right? And I was like, how many total kind of people were on AOL in 2013? How many like pay dial-up subscribers do you think were on AOL in 2013? 2013, man, pay dial-up subscribers on 2013 AOL? Let's say 12 million. 2.5 million. How many people do you think are on YouTube today? This isn't, there's hundreds, There's billions on YouTube today. So basically what I'm trying to say, this is like a question you would ask me and it would be really annoying.

40:56Alex Josephson:So basically in 2013, AOL, I had 2.5 to 2.8 million pay dial subscribers. Right now in 2026 and YouTube, there's about 2.7 to 2.85 billion monthly active viewers. So the point is, is that like everybody on the planet who has a phone, has the Internet is on YouTube. And AOL, there were still like 2.5 million sounded like a lot, but it wasn't enough to like move the needle and change habits. And it's like, you know, I think about, you know, back in the day when like Shane Dawson and I was working with him and he had like one or two of the top channels on YouTube and he had like millions of subscribers to get on the top 10 of YouTube.

41:32Alex Josephson:Now you've got to have hundreds of millions of subscribers. Like the ecosystem is just it's all one big giant ecosystem. It's just like we're all connected via our phones and channels and internet and TV and it's all one thing. And so when you've got a creator that's making a lot of waves like an Alex Cooper, they're on across various platforms, of course you're going to do some sort of deal with her and of course it's going to be successful. I think from, you know, Sarah Jessica Parker doing her ballet documentary to today, there's just been all this sort of not even slow in the grand scheme of things, but like migration, steady migration of like democratization of where people watch things.

42:09Alex Josephson:And so there was, you know, you would have a lot of those sort of shows that, you know, you mentioned, I would argue probably didn't do that well and weren't successful. And of course, YouTube did their sort of originals and that didn't really work. So there's been so many starts and stops. And it's not that like it didn't work. It wasn't time yet, right? Like we talk a lot. I think, you know, we talked a lot with Rich Bloom on Tubi, what they're doing. I think it's super smart, but it's also the timing is really good. We're like, we are in it right now. We're like, all media is media and creators are just part of that.

42:40Alex Josephson:And I talk a lot in my work, you know, when I work with traditional media companies about like if you're not working with a, you know, having a big digital presence and working with creators, you're just missing a spoke on the wheel at this point. That is a very important spoke. It's not to say you're not going to do traditional, whatever that even means. It's just like everything is media. And so what's old is new again. I agree with you. I've also never been more offended. I would never ask you a question like that because the premise itself is off. You have to compare, Lauren, unique visitors to YouTube.

43:10Annoying questions. You have to compare unique visitors to AOL in 2013 and not dial up paying subscribers. Whatever. Just why they're getting an internet connection. The point was made. Still your point's valid. In 2013, AOL had approximately 179 million average monthly unique visitors across all its platforms in the United States.

43:26Alex Josephson:And billion, two billion. And then you have to compare the two billion globally for YouTube. You got to assume that's several hundred million more. Do you see what he's doing right now? He's like shaming me publicly. No, keep this in. Keep this in. Keep this in. Our viewers and listeners deserve this level of. Oh, now you're going to tell people what they deserve. Quality. You're going to tell people what they deserve. Quality. and just fundamental fidelity to the truth. I think people know what they need. I don't think they need you to tell them what they need. Well, that's good. All right, Josh, uploads, downloads, moving on.

44:00Lauren, real quick, YouTube just announced that it is giving every user the opportunity to create a shorts timer where they can go in and put their shorts timer to 15 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour or zero minutes upon which when you reach that time of viewing shorts, it will come up with a screen that says, hey, you've reached your shorts viewing time. I'm guessing you can go back in and then change your shorts viewing time if you want. I know you're hoping you can. Totally locked out of it.

44:27Alex Josephson:I know your children are hoping they can. I already have this timer set up where it's just like total YouTube time I'm allowed to watch on my phone. What's your time? 15 minutes. Six hours a day? It's 15 minutes a day. Okay, go on. And so I really like this. You talk about minor product updates that get a big impact. Yes. I think just being able to create some friction between you and a further viewing experience is going to help a lot of people get more work done and touch some more grass. I'm all here for it. It's just hard because it's like, what are you supposed to do with like the five minutes in between?

45:05Alex Josephson:Like, let's be honest. Like, that's like, I'm not going to pick up the book and read a few pages in a chapter. Just don't do anything. Just don't do anything. Just have some thoughts. That was a trick question. Just have some thoughts. Be bored. You know when the creativity, you know when the genius happens, it's when you're bored. It's when I tell my children. People get good ideas in the shower. You know why they're not bringing their electronics in. Okay, Josh, I think we did it. Lauren, I think that's it. I'll see you handing your children some mobile devices and sending the short time of the zero.

45:30And then when they can't watch anything, you're just explaining that this is what YouTube is.

45:34Alex Josephson:That's the best idea you've had in a long time. Fantastic. And about there, I'll see you next week on Creator Upload. Today's show is produced by Lauren Schnipper, Joshua Cohen, that's me, and Adam Conner. It's edited by Adam Connor too. Original music is by London Bridge. You can check him out on Instagram at London Bridge Music. Make sure you subscribe to Creator Upload right here on YouTube, on Apple Podcasts, as well as Spotify or wherever you're listening. While you're there, give us a rating and leave us a comment. If you want to talk, hit us up at info at creatorupload.com. If you like our show, recommend it to a friend.

46:02If you love it, just tell everyone. Thanks for listening to Creator Upload, and we will be back next week.