Is YouTube Finally a True Social Network?

0:29Welcome to Creator Upload, your Creator Economy Podcast. if you're listening, make the games a little bit earlier. A little bit. Like start them at 7.30. A little bit. Yeah. We understand people on the West Coast, they'll have to like get out of work a little bit earlier in order to watch, but come on, make it easy on us. What I was most fascinated with was when I woke up in the morning and went to go check the stats for who won the game. Sure. I was inundated with innumerable clips from the NBA, ESPN, and ABC that already have millions of views on them. Yeah. And that's not a new phenomenon at all.

1:01I mean, these people that have rights to these big high profile sporting events are obviously going to clip them as much as possible and upload them to their owned and operated channels on these major video sharing sites. And the depth and just like real estate that they're covering. Yeah. The views that they're getting is, I think, remarkable. And it could be because this is a very high profile series. New York Knicks haven't been in the finals in 20-some-odd years, haven't won a series in 50-some-odd years. So there is more attention on it. But still, I mean, they are rocking it. Well, it's the speed.

1:36And it's also just showing clipping. I feel like clipping is this thing that people are just – it's been around for a while, but people have put a name and a category. It's a category now of actual growth and marketing. And everybody I talk to is building a clipping business inside of their organization. and it's just it's it's sort of it started i feel like it started you know i'm giving it an origin story but it started from like a fan perspective in some ways and now like these like sort of to your point ip holders are like owning it and like this is how you sort of grow i was excited because having gone to sleep when they were like 29 points behind or something like that i was like i really just want i don't want to watch just the clips i wanted to watch like the last solid like 10 minutes of the game because i just wanted to like have a little bit of the experience of seeing the comeback and to my to your point surprise and delight the NBA like got the memo because they're like everybody went to bed when they were so behind and there's a solid 10 minutes like they have the last 10 minutes of the game and so like I got to have like a little bit of a moment being like oh my god like how is this even possible I mean because the Spurs were literally I mean to say that they were outplaying them it doesn't even like give it justice I mean like the Knicks were missing every shot no one's coming here for our for our NBA commentary I'm just saying maybe a little bit.

2:48Your point. Yeah, right. Back to clipping. Totally. Tons of clipping. I watched a 10 minute highlight reel from the game and then I scrubbed through a 58 minute video again from primary sources here. Yeah, the speed by which these primary sources are doing these clips and then like, you know, longer clips and shorter clips is a little bit. It's kind of unprecedented. And that's what's really interesting to see here. I do like what you said, too. And I can totally agree with that where just because this phenomenon has a name now, you can put it as a line item in a budget. Yeah. Or maybe it used to be part of marketing or used to be part of some like amorphous distribution line item.

3:24Now you can have a clipping line item in the in the budget that gets resources, time, attention, human power devoted to it. And then you can go off and get tons of views on. I'm telling you, I talk to companies in the space all the time. Everybody, as they should is building like a very specific organized clipping business internally because they want to use it for their sometimes their own kind of proprietary stuff but other folks that are like kind of services businesses are also building these things because this is the way this is the way you do it and again it's sort of like it's only recently very recently and i i always find this fascinating because i'm always looking at companies in the space and i i see trends right like one of my favorite things like several years ago it was like every other company was like a link in bio company right and then every other company was trying to solve for like the mess of like dms that you're getting in your in your various inboxes and stuff and now it's like the trend right now is clipping that's all anybody can talk about and that's just what's next josh who knows who knows you'll hear here on creator upload now you will do good segue there um bunch of bunch of stuff happening this week one thing is youtube is bringing back dming um so they're reintroducing private messaging after testing for new ways for users to see our videos and have conversations about them.

4:36They started this sort of last year in an announcement on their blog. YouTube says it's now starting to expand the in-app sharing and messaging for to feature to users in the U.S. who are 18 and older. So DMing is back, baby. So, Lauren, YouTube used to have native DMs in 2017 through 2019, and then they killed them to, quote, focus on public conversations, end quote. It is worth noting that they ended the program or the feature in September 2019, which was the same month as YouTube's$170 million FTC Copa settlement. And it's no surprise then that they are relaunching DMing through with age gate attached.

5:20So you have to prove you're 18 years or older in order to DM. And then you have to send someone basically a connection request that they then accept that you'll be able to DM with them. Seems like obvious safety features that maybe should have been implemented from day one. But go on. I think in lots of ways it's not interesting that YouTube's doing this. The platform has said that this is one of the number one top requested features. And also YouTube's losing all of this time on the platform when people are going to other platforms to DM other people, to message other people. Yeah. The videos that they're talking about or that they're seeing where Instagram, it's native for them.

5:58Snapchat, it's native for them. So YouTube wants to capture all of this attention. However, I do think that this is a step closer to YouTube being less able to defend itself from not being a social network. And whatever other political ramifications that has. Yes. Whatever political ramifications that has or legislative implications. Yeah, I mean, I think to put that in context, what you're talking about is that YouTube alongside other, quote unquote, social media networks, meta, etc., you know, are parts of lots of lawsuits sort of claiming right now there's a new trend in these lawsuits where it's not about the content.

6:35It's about the, you know, sort of addictive nature, alleged addictive nature of the sort of algorithms. And YouTube's whole defense in this is that, whoa, we're not a social network. We're this like, you know, very innocent sort of, you know, video sharing platform. And we're so sorry that we're getting lumped into this. But what are you talking about? We're not about that. And to your point, this is this is sort of a step in that direction that definitely would just like what now. How do you define a social network if this is not it? Like, I guess that's the question. Right. The definition of publicly sharing posts.

7:07These happen to be mostly of a video nature and you're able to communicate with other people on the platform in a one to one or one to many basis. That seems like a pretty good definition of a social network. I mean, I think you just did it. Maybe you should call the YouTube lawyers and tell them they should just send a memo internally to YouTube. Be like, don't fucking do this, man. But I think to your point also, I think you're absolutely right. They're doing this because people are doing this private messaging elsewhere. If they can't do it on YouTube, they're going to figure out a way to do it.

7:32So they want, as all of these platforms want, they want all experiences to sort of really hopefully stay on this platform and not go elsewhere because you lose them. And there are also some interesting data points to point out from Instagram, who has had this feature for a very long time, that can show more of why YouTube's doing this and the trajectory it's headed. So Zuck said in 2018, quote, people share more photos, videos and link on WhatsApp and Messenger, end quote, than on social networks. This was in a message to investors. He cited that there are 100 billion messages a day across Meta's apps.

8:10also Adam Maseri who's the head of Instagram recently said there's an estimated 694 ,000 Instagram reels shared via DM every minute which is wild and also he's confirmed that sends are one of the three core ranking signals in Instagram's algorithm alongside watch time and likes per reach YouTube traditionally has not been able to because they haven't had this feature, haven't had it for quite some time, incorporate these sends into its algorithm and its decision making capabilities. So it could also be a big boon for the engineers at YouTube and the people who are in charge of this algorithm that they will have this other signal that they can incorporate into the algorithm and give people more of the videos that they want, or at least that the algorithm thinks that they want.

9:01So I have this sort of new ish bit how like my least favorite words in our ecosystem are authenticity. And that's my lead, like you go on a panel and everybody's like, you should just be authentic. Like, what does that mean? You know, and my second sort of least favorite word people use is engagement. Not because I think it's like a bad word is the way I hate authenticity is because nobody understands how to define it because it means different things to different people. But I think what you're describing is so interesting as it relates to engagement. So basically what Adam Massari is saying is that one of the factors that they kind of attribute in engagement is this dm and that is something it's not just about like shares and and views right and not likes it's like what other signals how are folks engaging with the video and to your into his point like this is a huge indicator of massive engagement and how it's going to affect reach and i think that that's when the engagement conversation gets interesting and then to your point this is why youtube's like well shit we got we got to add this right you know and then you're probably going to see people whether it's added to the algorithm or not or whether people think it is or not whether people at YouTube say it is or not.

10:07Creators are going to think that this has some weight on it. I imagine we'll see creators very soon saying like, hey, and share this video with as many friends as possible. I think we're going to start to see a lot of that. I think we're going to see a lot of that for sure. This is a good segue into like TikTok is doing yet another partnerships, right? So TikTok just announced they're teaming up with Sundance, the famed sort of film, independent film institute for a micro series writing program. The reason why I think this is an interesting sort of segues because TikTok is sort of like doing so many interesting partnerships now.

10:35And unlike other platforms, it's not that TikTok doesn't want you to stay on their platform a lot, but what they're not doing is building up all these capabilities internally, which is like sort of like antithetical to every other platform that everybody's trying to do everything in one place where TikTok's like they're partnering with Spotify and iHeart and now Sundance. And I don't know. I just think it's, you know, as everybody who listens to this knows, I have a lot of issues with TikTok, but I find their partnerships fascinating and really kind of innovative. The partnership is going to be a micro series writing program.

11:05It comes through the Sundance Collab, which is their digital learning and community platform. It's sort of it's sort of following on. Issa Rae did a partnership with TikTok and in terms of co-producing there, it was the first time they'd ever co-produced like sort of a micro series. Her series is called Screen Time and it debuted with like 75 million views in its first week. So it's a four week live online writing course designed for TikTok creators and other creatives that sort of really zeroes in on the essentials of development specifically for episodic installments of 60 to 120 seconds. I find this really interesting and fascinating because this is what everybody's this is, you know, everybody I talk to is trying to figure out micro series in micro dramas.

11:45And this is now I don't know that anybody has totally figured it out, but this is like this is now incubating and you're going to get some really talented folks now writing in the medium. And I think it's kind of brilliant. Patti West, who's the director of collab at Sundance Institute, which is presumably in charge of these kinds of partnerships, sees it as, quote, not a lesser version of film or television, end quote. And that's in reference to this type of vertical format serialized storytelling. So it is interesting that Hollywood is embracing this in a way that it hasn't embraced other platforms.

12:22I wonder why that is. I think it could be just because everybody can easily watch these and everybody easily gets it. Whereas if I'm a 40 something, 50 something, 60 something year old and I'm watching Jesser, I'm like, I don't understand what this means. But if I'm watching some type of verticalized micro drama that's more appealing for my demographic, I like get it. This is on the heels of like in January, Fox, you know, did a deal with Dharman Studios with Holy Water to create 40 narrative driven vertical micro dramas. So like when you've got the Foxes of the world's getting into the space, the independent filmmakers have to start to figure out like how they're going to, you know, the Sundances of the world have to figure out how they're going to support this.

13:08They can't deny it anymore. Now, what does this mean? You know, like, I mean, you know, Sundance has a very robust shorts program. no big deal a short that I produced was in Sundance like 10 years ago it's a new big deal no big deal um so like it's you know in the big film like actually in our my class of shorts that when I what I produced the short for Whiplash was in that um and they got funding and it became this big movie that won all these Oscars so like this is this is what they this is what they do in Sundance you can argue as becoming these kind of festivals are becoming less and less relevant because of platforms, right?

13:44And it's not necessarily where you're discovered anymore as it was years ago. So this is, it's what they need to be doing to stay, you know, like a lot of the filmmakers that used to go to Sundance are now going to be putting these shorts on TikTok that, you know, then will hopefully get bigger funding and et cetera. So it makes sense. I guess what I'm saying is just like, I wonder how micro dramas in this verticalized video format have adopted so much quicker into the Hollywood ecosystem and been embraced by it. But you say quicker. I mean, quicker. Like, the crater economy's been around for 100 years.

14:18Not 100 years. It's like 20 years, and they're finally getting on board with something because the numbers are big. I don't think this is so quick. I don't agree with that. I know, but these verticalized dramas didn't exist several years ago. Sure, but the crater economy did, and they didn't embrace a lot of this initially, so now they're seeing what they have to do. So I don't know. I feel like it's lessons learned and things have evolved. I mean, you know, I feel like it's like they know what they have to do. Again, and this is not coming in a vacuum because the places like Fox have like done these things.

14:47They're seeing the writing on the wall. I'm saying places like Fox have been quicker to adopt this verticalized video format in this micro drama fashion rather than like creators or other types of programming that we've seen evolve over the last 20 years. I mean, they are starting to do that, too. They hired Billy Parks to lead their Fox creator studios and they're doing some interesting partnerships with creators there. But it seems like this is just an easier dive into it because the execs at these big Hollywood studios can watch these vertical video dramas and be like, oh, that looks good. I mean, they can watch it quickly because nobody watches it.

15:25Yeah. So it's just the speed that they can watch things. OK, sure. Big news in creator economy acquisition. Accenture has acquired Whaler. Josh, talk about this. Lauren, it's worth noting that Accenture Song has acquired Whaler. and not Whaler Group. Whaler Group is composed of a bunch of different companies, including The Lighthouse, which has campuses in Venice and Brooklyn. It has The 16th, which is a management company and more. Accenture Song is acquiring Whaler, which is their influencer marketing agency. And that's going to be incorporated into Accenture in what Neil Waller, who's one of the co-founders of Whaler Group, called it, quote, the largest creator economy transaction, end quote.

16:09It can mean a lot of things. It can mean a lot of things. And he didn't back that up with a number. No. If you want to benchmark this, publicist paid$500 million for Influential in 2024. That was the reported figure. So I think like many people would go to that number, but maybe Miel Waller means that this was the largest just influencer marketing agency that has been acquired. And even if the number can ultimately be bigger than that, there's likely an earn out component to this. Very, very doubtful that that money was, whatever money, all of it was given up front. Especially because in May, 2025, Whaler Group announced it had raised some dough from Mark Benioff, Shopify, Neil Moritz, and more at a$400 million valuation.

16:52And that covered all six businesses, including the 16th fee agency we just talked about, the Lighthouse, Foam, which is kind of its internal influencer marketing software, Mobi Ventures, which is the part of Whaler Group that it partners with creators on different types of products and Umi games. According to the Wall Street Journal, Whaler has 170 people, and the business likely generated less than$40 million in net revenue on an annual basis and is relatively small compared with the broader Accenture Song, which is about 17 ,000 employees, which doesn't include the broader Accenture itself. And again, according to the Wall Street Journal, it's unlikely that the valuation came close to the$400 million valuation from the broader Whaler Group reported at the time of the company's last fundraising.

17:37So I don't know what this means in terms of valuation. But regardless, this is a very, you know, it's a big transaction from sort of a company like Accenture getting into the space is a very sort of monumental kind of thing, right? 100%. You have this consulting firm with$70 billion in annual revenue acquiring this influencer marketing agency. Yeah. Yeah. Which is unprecedented and shows you at least where Accenture, which if they're a consulting firm, they seemingly know which way the wind is blowing. That's what they get paid the big bucks for. Yes. And they want to get invested and more involved into the space in this ecosystem.

18:12This seems like a big indicator of where someone who is intimately involved with a bunch of different components of the markets think that the markets are going. Yeah. And then And another big sort of big dollar moment in the space. So TPG and Creative Artists Agency have sort of come together to form something called Compound Creative Holdings, which is going to essentially be a$250 million fund for YouTube talent. It's going to be led by Tucker Brown, who's been at CAA Evolution for a really, really long time. And their focus is going to be to acquire and or invest in businesses founded by entertainers who got their start online, also known as creators.

18:53According to Tucker Brown, who's going to be leading these efforts, longtime CAA Evolution guy that I've worked with for years, great guy. He said there's a lot of capital in the market generally and a lot of interest in creator businesses, but there aren't many educated capital platforms dedicated to invest in the category specifically. I think that he is correct, especially in sort of companies, call it, that are, you know, effectively like, you know, really have a strong key man risk and have creators at the helm of it. it's historically been something that a lot of, call it institutional capital, have been a little bit afraid of.

19:25And Tucker, if anybody, you know, he's been in this space for a long time and really understands the benefits and the risks. So he says that there are, he estimates that there are hundreds of creators that fit this initial investment strategy. So very excited to see what happens here. And Tucker was the baker who helped raise money for Dude Perfect. Correct. That was roughly 100 million bucks or more in 2024. All right, Josh, let's get to uploads and downloads, I need to bring up and upload. Have you seen the trailer for The Social Reckoning, also known as like Social Network 2, starring Jeremy Strong as Mark Zuckerberg?

19:57Yeah, Jeremy Strong is a really good Zuckerberg. It was insane. Like Jesse Eisenberg, like he was sort of embodying the essence. He was a little angrier. Zuckerberg is like, it's actually, he's actually kind of affable. He's not, there's like an angry bent that I personally did not experience or like a sinister bent that the the way Eisenberg played it, the way Jeremy, I mean, it was, it's uncanny, though his impression or whatever you want to call his portrayal of Mark Zuckerberg. It's like for no other reason, you got to see it because of that, but it looks pretty, I mean, it's Aaron Sorkin and it's, it seems to be focused on sort of the whistleblower from several years ago coming out about things that supposedly met anew and didn't disclose to the public and all the things that transpired as a result.

20:37It looks kind of phenomenal. Jesse Eisenberg was also portraying Mark Zuckerberg at a moment in time when the public opinion of Mark Zuckerberg was dramatically different than it is. Yes, yes. And I think Jeremy Strong is embracing what it really means to be Mark Zuckerberg and how the world sees Mark Zuckerberg into his role. At least that's what it looks like so far. Well, also like that movie, I mean, Social Mind was a phenomenal movie, but it also sort of said, made it so the motivation for forming, for creating Facebook was like to get a girl. And I remember Zuckerberg being like, I've had the same girlfriend for like 20 years at that point.

21:09So like, it just also like, it was a little bit like, this one's going to be real, Josh. We know more. And I, yeah, no, I'm not going to lie. I'm excited to see it. Josh, I think we did it. Lauren, I think we did. And I'll see you trying to slide into a bunch of creators' DMs on YouTube. Absolutely. I'm staying on one platform and one platform only. If not there, next week on Creator Upload. Today's show was produced by Lauren Schnipper, Joshua Cohen, that's me, and Adam Conner. It's edited by Adam Conner, too. Original music is by London Bridge. You can check him out on Instagram at London Bridge Music.

21:42make sure you subscribe to Creator Upload right here on YouTube, on Apple Podcasts as well, Spotify, or wherever you're listening. While you're there, give us a rating and leave us a comment. If you want to talk, hit us up at info at creatorupload.com. If you like our show, recommend it to a friend. If you love it, just tell everyone. Thanks for listening to Creator Upload, and we will be back next week.