Jon Youshaei is Making the Boring Stuff Simple for Creators

0:00The amount of creators I've met who have lost so much money and have made so many mistakes or gone out of business because their taxes are messed up. Yeah. Or accounts don't understand them. It's just like, I remember this one accountant was like, what's Venmo? I'm like, what? Like, this other accountant gave us a fax number. I was like, oh, there's got to be a better way. And so for the past year, we've been building this. Welcome to Creator Upload, your Creator Economy podcast. I'm Lauren Schnipper. And I'm Joshua Cohen. Lauren. What? What kind of Christmas music are you listening to? Wait, hold on.

0:30Hold on. I was describing this podcast to somebody the other day and I was like, you know, we just bicker the whole time and people love it. I feel like there's not as much bickering as there could be. Oh, my God. I think I'm like... The pre-podcast show, tons of bickering. Oh, by the pre-pog. If people knew what was happening before we actually started recording, it's definitely me. I'm going to admit, like me 100 % yelling at Josh, like a lot and getting very annoyed at all the things he doesn't do. It's not untrue. Is it too real? Anyway, sorry, you had a question for me? Go on. Yeah. What kind of Christmas music are you listening to?

1:07um well i you know what i was just listen to the whole album the other day which is just glorious is leslie odom jr has a holiday album that i love and then of course i'm listening to adina menzel's obviously and then um not to you know uh change the subject but hanukkah music wise i'm obsessed with modisiyahu's miracle also of course they did a thing on dancing with the stars with it so I have to always drop that. But Madis Yahoo's got some great Hanukkah bangers. So that's kind of where I'm at. I haven't heard that Madis Yahoo bop. I'll have to check it out. Oh, it's so good. It's so good. Do you know what the world is basically listening to, though?

1:46Tell me. All I want for Christmas is you. I mean, yes, Josh, of course. By Mariah Carey. We all know this. This is her season. This is her time to shine. It is her season. This is when she comes out of hibernation and she shows herself. She gives herself to the world. And then she crawls back in for the next 10 months. After sleeping like 12 to 14 hours a day. Yes. As she should. She's deserved of such things. So there are estimates that she earns$2.5 to$3 million in royalties each holiday season just from the songs, streams, sales, radio play, and licensing and nothing else. But what she does more on top of that are a bunch of different types of appearances.

2:23So this year on December 13th, she has her Mariah Carey's Here for All holiday special airing on TikTok Live and Apple Music. Both TikTok Live and Apple Music will broadcast a special which will look to capitalize on Carey's seasonal popularity. According to one blog post, the All I Want for Christmas is You has accrued 130 billion views to date. It seems low, honestly. Like this holiday season or in total? Just in total. but also that's a ton. It's a lot. But if you look at Gangnam Style, which was once the most viewed YouTube video of all time, still may or may not be, has 5.7 billion views.

3:03That 130 billion views to date just puts it in a little bit more perspective. It sure does. It sure does. Anyway, your point. TikTok Global Head of Music Tracy Gardner said this in a statement, Mariah Carey isn't just part of the holidays, she is the holidays. And TikTok is where music culture happens in real time and we're thrilled to bring her dazzling Vegas celebration to fans everywhere. live. So it's just going to be on TikTok live. It's not going to be on broadcast at all. TikTok live and Apple music. That's crazy. That's crazy. I mean, she's historically done these on broadcast. So God, what are they paying her?

3:33Well, good for her. Probably got to be a ton. Good. Good for her. And also TikTok just making everyone remember that it is for music too. Yeah. And discovery and culture and everything else. Well, I think that that's been evident for quite a while. But yeah. No. Wow. Okay. Josh, can you believe we have been doing this podcast for almost six years? Lauren, seriously, it only feels like, what, 20, 30? More like 50, am I right? Definitely 50. Well, in anticipation of our sixth anniversary happening this February, we actually want to hear from you, our audience. That is right. We're officially plugging and pushing the Creator Upload Survey.

4:11It's here. It's happening. For the first time ever, we are interested in something other than ourselves. In partnership with Deepwater Strategies, who put this together for us, thank you very much, We want to learn about you. It's truly historic. Please head to bit.ly slash creator upload survey. That's B-I-T dot L-Y slash creator upload survey and tell us all the things. What you want more of me, what you want less of Josh and everything in between. We'll be talking a lot about it. So just go to bit.ly slash creator upload survey and make our lives way easier. Exactly. Thanks for being with us all these years.

4:49Now go fill out the survey. bit.ly slash creator upload survey. That's bit.ly slash creator upload survey. Okay, before we get into our big stories, I want to note that John Ushai, creator, entrepreneur, podcaster, also former employee of YouTube and Instagram is going to be on the podcast to talk about his new venture, which is called Boring Stuff, which is doing exactly that. It's helping creators do their taxes. So really excited to talk to him about that. I promise conversations on taxes can be exciting. So just hold off for that. But before we get to that, I want to get to some big stories.

5:25And we would be remiss not to talk about the fact that Netflix has made a bid to buy Warner Brothers. And this is just like blown up the entertainment industry at large. So they announced last week that it would be purchasing Warner Brothers Discovery Studio in a deal valued at$82.7 billion, also known as$27.75 per share. And there was an intense bidding war. But then the following, I think, day, Paramount launched a hostile bid offering $30 a share for Warner Brothers. Lauren, quick, just aside on this, do you know what a hostile bid is? I never quite knew what it was, but do you know what it is?

6:04Yeah. I mean, it's basically coming in higher in the last minute after things were agreed upon. And basically, you've got shareholders whose arguably responsibility is to take the higher bid. And so it's like a lot, As I understand, it's like a last minute coming in and just trying to like, you know, throw everything off to, you know, after things were already agreed to. Right. So it's like in any type of bid like this, the shareholders have to approve it. Correct. And so the board of directors did this deal with Netflix that they would then put to shareholder approval. Yes. And what a hostile bid is, is anything that kind of bypasses the board of directors or the people in charge.

6:39And so they're launching this hostile bid, trying to persuade the hearts and minds and watches and bank accounts and yachts and 401ks of WBD stockholders in this way that bypasses the board. So that's what a hostile bid is. Yes, I roughly kind of understood that. So yes. And so Paramount CEO David Ellison said, our public offer, which is on the same terms we provided to the Warner Brothers Discovery Board of Directors in private, provides superior value and a more certain and quicker path to completion. Now, Netflix is arguing that one of the reasons that they should be able to acquire Warner Brothers is because in combination, the market share between Netflix and Warner Brothers will still be less than what YouTube has in terms of market share of TV viewing audiences.

7:31So basically. Because a deal of this size in any capacity has to go through some regulatory approval. Correct. And there were some concerns that they would not pass that regulatory approval, especially because Larry Ellison's involved with Paramount. Larry Ellison is boys with Donald Trump. Yeah, but it's more about the idea that this could be a monopoly. And so basically, Spirandos and Greg Peters said that the New Deal in its entirety would still stand behind YouTube in terms of watch time. They said, we go from 8 % of viewed hours today in the United States to 9%. We're still behind YouTube at 13%.

8:05HBO Max currently accounts for about 1.2 % of watch time, according to Nielsen. And meanwhile, he specifically pointed out that if Paramount acquired Warner Brothers, the newly combined portion of U.S. viewership would jump to 13.8%. That would put them above the YouTube and insinuating that Paramount is bigger in terms of an anti-competitive threat to Netflix. So basically, they're saying, yeah, our bid might be a little bit less expensive or we might not be paying as much, but we're not going to be a monopoly because we're going to be behind YouTube. And that's just an interesting argument to make.

8:34But I also I appreciate the strategy. And so he said, Peters, Greg Peters, who's the co-CEO of Netflix, says, we think that there's a really strong fundamentals based case here for why regulators should approve this deal. Also, it's worth noting here that Paramount itself isn't a huge company. Its market cap is around$10 billion. The price it's looking to acquire Warner Bros. Discovery at is north of$100 billion. So where is it coming with this extra money? Well, one source could be Larry Ellison. David Ellison is the CEO of Paramount. His dad, Larry Ellison, CEO and founder of Oracle, is the second or third most richest person in the world, depending on the day.

9:10So perhaps he could be dipping into those coffers. But also it's been reported that the bid is backed by funding from Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the UAE, plus cash from Affinity Partners, which is the Jared Kushner founded firm that also just acquired, helped to acquire electronic arts in a$55 billion deal with the Saudis. So that's a very well financed and capitalized group. should Paramount actually win this bid if Netflix gets into some regulatory choppy waters with their potential acquisition here. It should be noted too that Netflix has to pay a$5 billion breakup fee if the deal doesn't come through.

9:43We've also been anticipating that it would take anywhere from 12 to 18 months for the deal to finalize after it goes through all this regulatory approval. So we still got a ways to go before this actually happens. And in the meantime, they're actually blocking a potential competitor from getting in on these assets. So it's kind of a win-win all around for them. What do you mean blocking competitor? Well, while they're going through this regulatory approval, assuming this bid holds up for now, no one else can come in and acquire the WBD assets. Right. So worst case scenario, they're paying a$5 billion breakup fee in 12 to 18 months.

10:16Meanwhile, no one else would be able to acquire any of these assets and put it into their own portfolio and build up their own media and streaming and television and broadcast empire. Yeah. And it's it's take something like 12 to 18 months to get these things passed through regulatory regulatory channels and stuff. So we'll see what this is far from over, kids. I think it's also just interesting here too in that like this would have been a much different conversation or at least Ted Sarandos would have had this YouTube kind of scapegoat if this deal was happening two, three years ago. It's wild how fast the world changes.

10:48Same thing kind of occurred in a similar way just with the incredible pace of the advancement of technology with the Google antitrust lawsuit that was in front of the DOJ. And Judge Ahmed Mehta found Google liable in 2024 of the search monopoly suit that the DOJ brought against it. But then in 2025, he imposed these remedies that were much lighter than people would have suspected. And he cited that AI did play into his calculation of what should be the next steps. He explicitly noted that the rise of generative AI systems like ChatGPT and more changed his assessment and helped to justify narrower remedies rather than a structural breakup.

11:30of like Chrome from Google and AdSense from Google and more. So times they are changing fast and having legal implications. Very fast. Totally. This wonderful installment of Creator Upload is brought to you by Viral Nation. Viral Nation is a leading global social media marketing and creator agency with a social first approach powered by its brand safe technology. Viral Nation powers global growth for brands like Elf Cosmetics, Audible, A24, MGM Resorts International, Microsoft Meta, Tencent, Zillow, and Walmart, redefining how brands engage and thrive in an ever-evolving digital world. Take your content to new heights with Viral Nation.

12:10Next up, and what is actually just like a massive news is that Australia has, as of December 10th, banned social media for anybody under the age of 16. So this measure passed a year ago. And what's really interesting is that this all started because the wife of effectively a governor in Australia read Jonathan Haidt's book, The Anxious Generation, looked at her husband and was like, what are you going to do about this? And The Anxious Generation, of course, is a book that basically the thesis of which is like we have overprotected kids in person and underprotected them online and like them being on social media seven, eight hours a day, which many kids are, has been just totally detrimental to their health and well-being and led to terrible things.

12:52And so And I think it's worth noting that his thesis is not no screens at all. It's just about understanding how much time your kids are spending on a screen, regulating it. It passed a year ago. And so the measure passed a year ago requires the technology companies behind the platforms Facebook, Instagram, Kik, Reddit, SnatchUp, Threads, TikTok, Twitch, Twitch, and YouTube to identify and disable the accounts of Australian users who are under 16. Under the law, failure to take reasonable steps to remove underage users could lead to fines of up to$49.5 million Australian dollars, which is the equivalent of about$33 American dollars.

13:29And so this is huge. I mean, yes, Josh always likes to point out that Australia has the population of like, you know, one major city in this country, maybe two. However, to be clear, Australia has like 27 million people. The United States has 340 million people. So it's a market. Sure. But it's not a very big. But in the market of social media in general, like the major markets are English speaking countries. So it's not an insignificant market. And also, I think it's worth noting that like relative to the amount of population in Australia, there's a lot of really good actors that came out of Australia.

14:06Yeah, like the Hemsworth family just bumps it up a couple percentage points overall. Hemsworth's alone. I'm just like, what are we doing? And so it's really, really interesting. I mean, you know, Jonathan Haidt said something like, you know, finally we are allowing children that did not sign up for the social media, this social experiment to go live their lives now. And, you know, it's interesting. I listened to a podcast on The Atlantic the other day about a woman who was sort of saying, you know, banning is not the answer. you know like it's like you have to teach kids how to use it responsibly because they're going to just on 16 they're going to just like go crazy I call bullshit on that because I'm like you could make the argument there are plenty 14 year olds that could drive a car plenty of them it doesn't mean we should give them a license it doesn't mean that like you I think I agree that like in preparation for turning 16 you should have education and understanding about how to use social media it's not like never talk about it and like they're going to watch certain things there's going to be screens.

15:03There's going to be things. But I think there's no reason for kids to be on it as much as they have been. And I don't know. I think there's going to be a ton. I mean, so many a lot of countries are following suit. I think it's where is it? Denmark. Sorry. So at the U.N. General Assembly, a lot of other countries were talking about they're going to sort of enact similar things, including Denmark and Malaysia. They're planning similar restrictions. I think what's also worth noting is the whole notion that these companies are unable to identify which kids are actually 16 or under. And the truth is, they're absolutely able to do it.

15:39And any notion that they can't do it is complete and utter bullshit. And so I again, I'm calling bullshit on that. So when they're faced with a fine of$30 million every time, like, or I don't know if it's every time or whatever, like, you know, yeah,$130 million fine for a platform is no big deal. But that that happening several times is no joke. And so I think this is the world, in my opinion, is going to be watching. I don't really have faith that as much as I think this would be great for this country, we have a legislator that doesn't like to legislate. And even when they do, they don't actually follow through with the legislation.

16:10See the TikTok ban that was passed, bipartisan pass and the legislature. So I think that it's going to be but it's going to be very interesting in the next like they're going to do tons of studies around teenagers. And I mean, the amount of suicides, I mean, and depression and like sex storting that's going on with kids. I mean, there's there's these there's a huge epidemic of a network that is targeting specifically young boys pretending to be like cute girls from a neighboring school, basically asking for dick pics. Then they then they extort the kids and say, give me 500 bucks or I'm going to, you know, spread these dick pics everywhere.

16:44and they kill themselves. I mean, this is like a real, this is a real thing that's happening. It's like really true. I said this to my friend who's got like teenagers and I was like, you better tell your kids about this because by the way, she's divorced and like had to get her kids' phones kind of young because her ex-husband's an asshole. And so, you know, that's a situation where I understand it. And she's like, do I have to go on dick pics? I'm like, girl, you call them whatever you want, but you tell those motherfuckers not to send any naked pictures of themselves anywhere. And so my point is, is like this is, I know your children are like literally online 24-7, but like please tell them I'm not sending any chickpeas.

17:15It's really terrible. It's like an epidemic. People playing creator upload bingo right now are just wasted. They're just on the floor, just passed out, just hammered. I'm just saying I am excited to learn over the next few years what the data comes out of this. I really think it's going to be interesting. And I think, by the way, the kids are going to be fine. It's like, how am I going to get in touch with my friends? Get their phone numbers and text them. Like we all grew up somehow without phones. And I recognize that, like, you know, I don't want to seem like an old whatever. Like, I get it.

17:47I'm obviously we are we are proponents and love the greater economy, but it doesn't mean the kids should be on their phones 24 seven. I totally agree. Kids shouldn't be on their phones 24 seven. I totally agree that this social media addiction or these habits are generally might be net negative. I also like the fact that this is only happening in Australia because this is happening. To your point, it is going to provide some good data. Yeah. And it's going to give us some insight into how these kids function and operate in the next several years. But I also think what's less studied but an equally important part of the Internet are people from marginalized communities, whether that's socioeconomic, niche, sexual, whatever.

18:28they're able to find people like them online. And I think that can be really formative and important for kids when they're going through these developmental stages of life and saying that we are going to now almost entirely for all intents and purposes, limit those types of interactions and discovery and make you unable to access the kind of forum and space online that gave you more of a sense of self and knowing and being able to communicate and convene with people like you, I think could have equally negative consequences. And it's not studied as much. People are hand-wringing and up in arms about all the bad things that are happening online.

19:09And I agree there's a ton of bad things that are happening online. But especially for kids at this form of age, I think there's a ton of good things that are happening online too. I think that you're totally wrong. And I think people study that. And I think people are talking about them. And the people that are critics of this say that exact same thing. And I think the truth of the matter is the amount of kids that are going to be negatively affected is far less than the amount of kids that are negatively affected by not connecting with other folks on social media. It doesn't compare to the kids that are negatively affected by spending all their time on social media.

19:35And to your point, A, this is not forever. This is 16. Number two, you can still go on your computer and go on YouTube and find those creators that look at these things. So I don't think the idea that this is putting people in some whole where they're never going to be able to access any content other than like what their parents watch online like i just think that's complete that's you know baloney i'm gonna use i just think it's not i don't know i think that there's um a lot of resources out there and i i'm not i'm i get it i i'm not saying there's nobody that's going to be negative you know that's going to be negatively affected by this like i i understand that and i appreciate that but you've got that's what data is for and so the statistics i think so we'll see what the statistics play out It is worth noting that YouTube originally wasn't part of this ban and then got folded into this ban as well.

20:24I think it's worth noting that two Australian teenagers backed by an advocacy group filed a constitutional challenge to the law in the country's high court before it went into effect, arguing that it infringes on their right to political communication. Australian media also reported that Reddit was preparing to sue over the law. So, like, the bottom line is there's going to be a ton of lawsuits in the interim. They're going to collect a lot of data and then we're going to see what happens. And I'm, for one, very interested in what the data comes around. I also think that like these kinds of things inspire a lot of creativity.

20:54So I'm very excited to see what like Australian kids do with themselves and their time when they're not spending seven hours a day on their phones and like what kind of creative things that they do and ways that they how they can reach those kind of people that they feel are marginalized. I think that there's a lot of exciting things that can come from this. Sure. We'll see. We'll see. You know, we know what side you're on. Okay, we are going to get to Founder, creator, legend John Yushai Founder of Boring Stuff John Yushai Welcome to Creator Upload We are so excited to have you Thank you, and guys, happy six year anniversary Oh my god Thank you so much, that's so kind of you Oh, you know, I listen to this show You know, I know your outro by heart Do you really?

21:37Today's episode is produced by Lauren Schnipper, Joshua Cohen Hey, that's me Oh my god And the music is by London Bridge Oh my gosh. Josh is getting embarrassed. He's getting red. Are you blushing, Josh? He's kind of blushing. Come on, your effusive praise? How wouldn't I blush? Oh my gosh. You caught me off guard. Thank you for listening. We appreciated you felt the story. Lauren, I love how you roast Josh. That is probably one of the best. That's the most loving. Please keep that going. Thank you. I just love in the outro how Josh says, hey, that's me. We know Josh.

22:15Yeah, no, it's weird because like the meaner I am to that, like the more people to Josh, the more people listen. And so I listen. Listen, I give the audience what they crave, what they need. It's a retention mechanism. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Well, yes, well, we're joined by a real professional here in the space, although we are both alums of big platforms, which is very which is something we have in common. But we're here to really talk about Boring Stuff. So you've launched a new sort of company. Just give us the logline. Tell us what Boring Stuff is. Yeah. Boring Stuff is a new company that we've launched that does accounting, bookkeeping, basically all the boring paperwork, payroll, HR for creators.

22:56And I'm proud to have started it with my co-founders, Amanda Markovich, which is also my business partner, my better half, my wife. She's run our production for our business for the past three years and grown our company. So I'm really excited for her to bring her expertise to Boring Stuff as well as other creators who are signing up. Zach Carnivore, who is, I think, one of the sharpest minds in the creator economy, has managed ARAC, Yes Theory. Just been a guy for years that I've called a friend and to now call a co-founder. Just I'm so excited about that. And we almost came to this idea independently where he was thinking about this.

23:29Amanda and I were thinking about this and we merged paths. And then Varun, who really brings in the accounting and just like financial like expertise and manages a lot of the tactical getting in there, bringing the accounts and knowing how to maximize write offs. Think about like all the things that, again, creators hate. And it's such a I never thought I'd be excited about accounting and taxes and starting a podcast with that. But you guys do a lot of interviews and there's a lot of things that get talked about on camera and off camera. And the amount of creators I've met who have lost so much money and have made so many mistakes or gone out of business because their taxes are messed up.

24:07Yeah. Accounts don't understand them. It's just like, I was like, oh, there's got to be a better way. And so for the past year, we've been building this. Yeah. And I want to be candid. Like, you're not the first person to sort of try to do this. This is to try to do this. You know, having worked at Jelly Smack, I looked at a lot of companies who are doing this. And so I'm just curious, you know, not only do creators not do their taxes, a lot of them, correctly. A lot of them don't do it at all and don't even want to have a conversation about doing it at all. So like this is why, in my opinion, this has not really taken off other sort of versions of this that have sort of been attempted, right?