There's a New Content Creation College Degree in Town (what you need to know)

0:01Welcome to Crater Upload, your Crater Economy podcast. I'm Lauren Schnupper. And I'm Joshua Cohen. Lauren, what? Do you think your kids are going to go to college? At this rate, not because they're not. I don't know. And I don't know if I care. Like, I like I like I was thinking about this because my kids are entering, you know, second and fourth grade and somebody was talking about their report cards. And like, I care very much that my kids work hard and that they work hard, really, honestly, is what I care about. I have never really voluntarily looked at their report cards. I don't care about their report cards.

0:35Is that crazy? Like if it was a like, I feel like the teacher will tell me the teacher will tell me if there's a huge problem. But like, I don't care like at all. Like I like I again. So as it relates to college, it's like if it makes sense and it's not going to ruin anybody financially. But like also go be a plumber, man. My plumber makes about ten dollars a minute. Do you know what I'm saying? It's amazing. If I were dealing with your shit, I'd be making a hundred dollars. And I do deal with your shit. That's fair. Fair. Fair. Oh, slow clap for that one. Should we just end the podcast now? There were double entons.

1:11There were so many. If your kids end up do going to college, they got a new option now. Arizona State University has just launched a degree in the creator economy. Yep. It's a BA and ASU students who pursue the BA in content creation will study the ins and outs of the creator profession while simultaneously getting field experience in Phoenix, Los Angeles and online. The university recently approved the program, which is part of the Walter Cronkite School of Journalism and Mass Communication. And Lauren, here's what Jessica Pucci, the ASU dean, said about the program. Quote, many students tell us they don't want to work for someone else.

1:47They want to create media businesses or monetize their content in a way that gives them full control of their schedules and their income. end quote. Me being a boy from Tucson, Arizona. I was about to say you from Arizona. How do you feel about this? You are you like are you proud? Are you like mad that you didn't come up with this? And also Cronkite, is he from Arizona? What's that deal? No, in fact, I know this. So there is a CBS affiliate owner and ASU supporter connected to the university who was a close friend of Cronkite who donated a bunch of money to the school and had it named. Sure. Great.

2:15Great. So as a boy from Tucson, Tucson and Phoenix have kind of like a Boston, New York rivalry. Oh, interesting. Or at least it was like that when I was growing up. But as I get further removed from living there and older in age, I just am proud of all of Arizona. Yeah, I could kind of like care less. I also feel like Arizona and Florida, where I'm from, are these weird sister states. Like there's so many things that are similar out of them. And it's like the heat, the state school system, the politics. Like I feel like there's a lot of similarities. Please don't please don't compare Arizona to Florida.

2:46No, I will. And I think it's very similar. And I'm like, I'm happy about that. So Lauren, this is in a relatively long line of new initiatives like this that ASU has enacted in recent years. So they have been a pioneer, really, in creator-oriented coursework long before other schools got into it. For instance, now at Syracuse, you can get a minor in the creator economy. And India's MICA has provided a regional option for procreators who are coming out of rural villages. There's also, I was doing some research on this too, University of Texas at San Antonio, you can get a BS in digital media influencing.

3:25University of Miami, they don't have a major, but they have a digital media and creator focused curriculum. Arkansas State University, BS in mass communications creative media. And of course, East Carolina University was announced in 2022, a partnership with Beast. they have a program that it's not actually about being a creator. It's about like, you know, sort of training folks to work behind the scenes. I think it's meant to be like a factory for like beast industries. Let's be real. I think what's really interesting about this is like, it's just crazy. Like it absolutely should be a thing. Like if you want to get into media today, if you want to work in, you know, any sort of entertainment, you have to learn these things.

4:02You have to understand the history of it. I mean, it's, it's a real thing now. It's just also like crazy but i i think and we've talked about this before 100 this is what people felt like when like there were like film schools being like built and you know people like they're they're majoring in movies like that's so i think i think a little bit but just backing up to asu's history for a sec in 2020 the school partnered with hank and john green to launch study hall which is an offshoot of the brothers crash course channel and years later asu turned study hall into a fully accredited program, allowing students to receive college credit for the videos they watched.

4:36So this wasn't for studying the creator economy. This was just for like regular kind of studies. You could sign up for study hall. You could watch crash course programming and then you could take tests and get actual college credit for it. This obviously you're going to be a in the creator economy. And I do think it's wild. And I think it's different than the advent of film school because during that time there were lots of different actual kind of like technical components of that industry that you need to learn to become proficient in it. How cameras work, how lighting work, how editing works, all the different kinds of people that need to come together for a production.

5:12It was very collaborative. In this influencer slash creator ecosystem, it is beneficial to have all those kinds of people if you want to do big projects. And it's increasingly more important to do those big kinds of projects if you want to produce long form programming that's going to be seen on TVs via YouTube or wherever else. But that being said, there is still a completely reasonable slash viable path where you can just be your own solo individual doing all of this. Yes, but I don't know if you need a course. I'm going to push back. I'm going to push back on that a little bit because you're also, you know, there's film studies degrees, right, where people are, you know, studying the advent of film and the way it was a reflection of society and, you know, the sort of storytelling writ large.

6:00And I think there's a, first of all, there's a legitimate and deep history with the creator economy now that you and I know like the back of our hand. But like imagine somebody who like didn't know the sort of background of MCNs, right? And like didn't understand how, what happened there and the egregious deals that were made, you know, with creators and the money that was, you know, and the makers being acquired by Disney for what did they buy? I'd argue nothing. And I think they would agree at this point too. And so it's like I think there is a real sort of history and understanding of this from like a macro level.

6:35And then I think from like a micro level from like, yeah, if you just want to be a creative, of course, you could just pick up a camera and do that. But I think that if you're thinking about this as a holistic industry, there is an argument to be made about like understanding all of the sort of elements. And I also just think like it's funny to me. It makes me think of like when I worked at Facebook, I was trying to just make these sort of product managers and engineers understand the creator economy. And I literally gave this sort of group of this team an assignment to go vlog for a day or two or whatever and come back and do like shows their vlogs.

7:08And it was like unbelievably like enlightening for these people. And they were like, oh, my gosh, this is really hard. You know what I mean? And like, and they, and so I think that like all of this will make up for a better, more mature industry. So I'm like, not totally mad at it, but I also think it's fine that you can do, you could also like not go to film school and just pick up a camera and do that, you know, so you can make arguments for both. So I'm not like totally mad at it. I think it's just, it's crazy, but it's like, also like I get it. I think it's wild. I'm not saying the coursework is going to not be beneficial.

7:38I think it probably will be incredibly beneficial for the people that will take it. Kind of feels like that's what you're saying. I'm saying that it's a great move by ASU. It's great marketing. It's going to get more people go to the school. This is what the kids want to do. By the way, you have to like, you know, you know, I've taken a lot of courses like at UCLA and like the business school there. And like they talked a lot about like headwinds and tailwinds. And I thought it was really interesting at one point. Like people, the interest in folks getting MBAs is actually like really going down.

8:06Like it's and it's like he's like it's interesting because like the kind of called the Harvard's the top tier of the schools like don't really feel it because like everybody kind of there's always going to be some level of demand until they wake up one day and there's not. But this one professor was talking about like what is really on the rise are more like year long, like specialized masters. Right. Yeah, that makes sense. So all that sort of stuff. So they were building those kind of courses and those kind of degrees while still doing the MBAs. But they were like it's all about headwinds and tailwinds.

8:31Right. And so it's sort of like if you've got this, if the survey says that everybody wants to be a creator for better or worse, then these kind of institutions are going to institutionalize it and make it sort of a more formal. And they should because at the end of the day, these are businesses, universities are businesses. And so, you know, it makes sense. I think it can be a really beneficial program for people who participate in it. I also think you don't need to participate in it in order to become a very successful creator. I also think that it's a great way for ASU to remove money from parents who want their kids to go to college and their kids are really interested in becoming a creator.

9:07I think all those things can be true. Do you feel like ASU should have us as, you know... Deans. Deans. I was going to say not guest lecturers. I don't want to be a full-time professor because that's a lot. But what's the one where it's like, oh, residents, creator experts and residents. That's what I was thinking about. I feel like that's in our future. We could rock some Sun Devil merch. I'm into it. I like, I really. And we could come in and talk to classes that have the names such as, quote, how to become an influencer, end quote. Oh, no. That's what it's called? That's what one of the more attention grabbing courses is called.

9:42Oh, God. That's so gross. I take back everything I said. Cancel this immediately. Literally. Get your money back. Ew. next up so youtube premium subscribers will get peacock for free uh in a sort of first of its kind deal uh i don't think it will come as a surprise to those that listen i'm a peacock fan i love nbc content first and foremost law and order svu as we all know so like i'm all about this so in starting in 2027 youtube premium subscribers will also get access to streaming platform peacock not for an additional charge but as a free perk thanks to this deal between youtube and peacock's parent company.

10:20YouTube CEO Neil Mohan said that the platform is incredibly excited to expand our partnership with NBCUniversal to redefine what a modern entertainment subscription can be for consumers. YouTube Premium brings your favorite creators, artists, and cultural moments together uninterrupted. And now we're pairing that ultimate viewing experience with Peacock's expansive lineup of live sports like Sunday Night Football and NBA, Blockbuster Universal movies, and original series. I mean, this is one of those things that might not seem like a big deal, but it is another feather in the cap for YouTube basically saying, yo, WeTV2.

10:56It is notable that in the kind of press photos that are out there, you've got, you know, on the top, you've got a Dhar Mann photo alongside, you know, Alex Cooper. And then below it, it's like Shrek and Mariska Hargitay. You know what to be. It's like these... These are the same. These like not a year ago would be like, no, these kids are not like the other. And now they're basically saying they're of equal measure. It's all the same. I think the marketing materials that went out for this announcement are amazing. I dig it. YouTube has consistently over the course of its lifetime and now more dramatically and more expediently in the past several months been finding every which way possible to compare itself to television and traditional Hollywood.

11:38And this was a great way to do it. I think just putting this into a little bit of context, I think this is incredibly interesting too. When you think about a year ago, NBC was threatening to pull its channels off of YouTube TV. And there was a point in time where NBC's channels weren't on YouTube TV. And this week they came to some agreement to put Peacock inside of YouTube. And I think that is like the story of 2026 and the creator economy in a nutshell. You have these major legacy players who have spent years trying to beat YouTube, trying to sue YouTube, trying to say they're better than YouTube, trying to say YouTube's not as good as them.

12:15And now they're making these big major deals, first of its kind deals, to get inside of YouTube and draft off from it. So Lauren, here's how this is going to play out. YouTube NBC Universal announced that starting early 2027, every YouTube premium subscriber in the US gets Peacock included for free. And this is a good version of Peacock. It's what you would normally pay for, at least at the ad-supported tier. And per Deadline and Hollywood Reporter, the deal covers effectively all of Peacock's content. That includes NFL Sunday Night Football, the NBA, Universal Blockbuster Films, Bravo, Love Island, SNL, Law & Order, the whole entire library.

12:50So Lauren, in terms of pricing, YouTube Premium costs$15.99 a month. Peacock, its ad-supported tier costs$7.99 a month. It's premium ad supported tier, which includes live sports and events and hit films and Peacock's originals cost$10.99 a month. Presumably, that's the tier that at least is going to be part of this package. Premium Plus is$16.99 a month. That includes no ads. It's a little bit unclear which version it's going to be now. It's probably going to be the version with ads, I would imagine. But either way, this is a huge bargain. And it is going to dramatically increase the number of both Peacock and YouTube premium subscribers.

13:27YouTube Premium has more than 125 million subscribers globally. The Peacock perk is only for the U.S. now. Peacock has 48 million subs. And this is, I mean, it's wild to see that there's this institution of American media and entertainment that is now piggybacking onto YouTube to get more scale. I was going to say, like, in five years, we're going to have a moment. we're going to be like remember we talked about how like weird it was at like nbc and like youtube were like partners and because it's literally going to be all one the same and when i say in five years i'm going to be like in like a year it's just gonna it's just like it's not even like a thing and like this is my whole pitch to every kind of client i work with that's a lot of traditional media that's trying to figure out the space it's like it's all media you just gotta do it all i don't think that there's i do not believe that like traditional media and movies and tv are dead.

14:24I just think that you have to do a fun combination of both. And I think that YouTube kind of is TV. It really is. A hundred percent. And it's going to be even more equated there. Like the lines are going to get blurrier and fuzzier. Like it was easy to say YouTube is not TV when you couldn't watch it on your television. Right. And now that you can watch it on your television, it's harder to say YouTube is not TV. And then when you can watch it on television next to other television shows, that's what's going to be, I think, an interesting component of this too, is how are you actually going to watch Peacock programming inside of YouTube?

14:51I don't think that's clear yet. Like, are you going to go to YouTube and then go to a Peacock section of YouTube if you also subscribe to that? Or is it just going to be intermixed into all the other content? I think it's going to be intermixed. It's like, wait, Amazon does this. Amazon does a thing with like BritBox. And like I have like a seven day subscription to free. I'm doing the seven day free trial of BritBox because obviously you need to watch the other Ben and Sister, which was like a mausing, by the way. But I did it through Amazon and I don't have the BritBox app. I'm doing it. I just go to my Amazon to watch it.

15:19So I think that's probably what it's going to be. But then inside of Amazon, you go to a BritBox section of Amazon. It's not intermixed between like John Reacher and these other Amazon programmers. No, I mean, there's one show like I go down and it's like next to my other shows. Oh, that's amazing. But I've only watched that. So maybe there's more. I don't know. Clearly the UI. We're not UI experts here. I don't know. I don't know. I got my show. However, I got it. So so if and then I'm guessing YouTube wants to very badly create the same kind of experience where you could be watching Shrek and then watch Dhar Mann, or you could be watching Michelle Correa and then watch Love Island.

15:54And you could be recommended one or the other after watching the other. We've had Rich Bloom on the program from Tubi who has talked about how creator programming can draw a different type of audience onto the platform, but then the audience isn't just consuming that creator programming. That audience is consuming traditional programming. And Tubi was kind of, before this, really one of the only places where you could get that kind of mix of content. But if YouTube's able to incorporate this Peacock programming into the UI in a seamless experience, I mean, I feel like it's going to do very, very well.

16:26I think it's going to do great. And Lauren, this works financially for NBC and YouTube, presumably because they're trading in this higher revenue that they could get per customer if they did this on their own for... For more customers. Potentially way more customers. They just have to take a little cut because they have to split it now. Yeah. and lower marketing costs. Yeah. No, I think it makes sense. I think it's going to work out really good all around. Okay, Josh. Just some quick uploads, downloads. I think it's really unsurprising, but guess who else is getting into short videos? You heard it here first.

16:58HBO Max. They're adding a TikTok-like short feed video feed to its platform to help users find something to watch, which I actually think is kind of smart. Like, you know, because I do that a lot with YouTube when I'm watching shorts with my weird, like I like watching weird therapy videos, which I think I've mentioned before. and you get like a little snippet of somebody being like, I don't know, my husband said he's cheating on me, but I said it's just emotionally and financially and not physically. And then I click on it more and I get to hear the whole story. And so this is going to be that same situation except for like the pit.

17:26It just makes so much sense too. I used to think this was kind of ridiculous when these other platforms were doing this kind of thing, but it just makes no sense because this is just now basic human consumption behavior. I have watched so much Mad Men in the last month in 90 second intervals on my YouTube feed. fascinating and i would totally if there was a way for me to go from that short form to the long form version i'd probably be consuming a lot more mad men too i think it works so much from for these kinds of platforms from like an seo like sort of perspective what it doesn't make sense if all of a sudden hbo max was like ugc short content on hbo max i'd be like hard pass like you know what i mean but yeah 100 from an seo perspective yeah give me a feed of just like sopranos clips done i'm cool with that i'm in lauren quick upload i think for you is youtube has also unveiled one of the most requested features at least they've said it's one of the most requested features they've had in the last couple years they're giving shorts creators thumbnails i feel like this is kind of like this isn't what happened but i kind of feel like this could have been what happened is that there's a thumbnail lobby in my mind with all these thumbnail artists that were like yo dude youtube we need to get some thumbnails on shorts and then they just kept pressing and pressing and youtube's like okay you got it i mean no but like they one of the jobs of the product folk and the partnership folk at these platforms is to gather feedback and so you then present that feedback internally and then they're also getting feedback just like in the normal like sort of scalable channels as well and they aggregate that feedback and then they prioritize it and then they build products that make sense based on that feedback.

19:08That's more what happens, less of a lobby. Totally, 100%. But whatever you need to think to make yourself feel better. I think it's fun to think about that. And it's not actually real anyway because increasingly these platforms, including YouTube, are making it easier and easier with the use of AI for it to select certain thumbnails that are going to perform well, for it to ideate on thumbnails, for it to create the first prompt for thumbnails that you then eventually use. So it's definitely probably not the thumbnail out of this lobby. though there's more thumbnails in general. Thumbnail artists are going to get some more work, especially the good ones.

19:38I also think it's interesting where like thumbnails have become such an important part of this ecosystem. They're the billboards, they're the book covers of this consumption economy. And I think it's just so interesting because usually people don't care about shorts thumbnails. Like when have you seen a shorts thumbnail? You're just scrolling through your feed, right? Yes. And you don't actually see the thumbnail. The only time you really see it is maybe if you're looking at your television now, which is more important, and you're scrolling through the homepage on your TV. Or when you're scrolling on your desktop, or I guess when you open up the app, too.

20:12But it's just that, like, kind of first touch experience. I was about to say, like, so, like, there's a lot of ways you see thumbnails based on what you just said. There is, but it's just, like, really kind of a first touch experience. It's with a search. Right. But that's exactly what there it is. It's a first touch experience. Exactly. You've just defined. Everybody, ladies and gentlemen, he just told us what a thumbnail is. Okay. Thank you. you're welcome no no thank you we were okay got it now but i think it's interesting where like one i think creators probably want this because they you want to go to their shorts feed on their page creators are very protective and have lots of feels about their personal space yes that they're renting how they want to show up in these big platforms 100 and so giving themselves the ability to further curate that shorts page i think is really important for them and i think a lot of People are going to do some cool stuff with it.

21:02Also, what I was trying to say before is in this algorithmic era where we're just getting fed content, content, content, it's interesting that thumbnails are still such a big deal. Yeah, 100%. All right, Josh. I think we did it. Lauren, I think that's it. I'll see you pitching Jessica Pucci, the ASU dean, about the program you're going to teach at its new Walter Cronkite School of Journalism creator economy degree. What would it be? I'm going to be giving a full-on first semester course in thumbnail generation. Fantastic. Full house. 300 students in that room. 300 students. Comparing thumbnails, by the way.

21:37And the thought there next week on Creator Upload. Today's show is produced by Lauren Schnipper, Joshua Cohen, that's me, and Adam Conner. It's edited by Adam Conner too. Original music is by London Bridge. You can check them out on Instagram at London Bridge Music. Make sure you subscribe to Creator Upload right here on YouTube, on Apple Podcasts, as well, Spotify or wherever you're listening. While you're there, give us a rating and leave us a comment. If you want to talk, hit us up at info at creatorupload.com. If you like our show, recommend it to a friend. If you love it, just tell everyone.

22:03Thanks for listening to Creator Upload and we will be back next week.