This YouTube Channel just bought a Cable Network | Law & Crime President Rachel Stockman

0:00Welcome to Creator Upload, your Creator Economy podcast. I'm Lauren Schnipper.

0:04Rachel Stockman:And I'm Josh Cohen. Lauren, out in the wild. You are out in the wild. Where are you? I'm not sure if it's a fake sky behind you because it's like very perfect. It does look like totally a fake sky. Where are you? I'm on the 37th floor of One Pen Plaza, which has beautiful, gorgeous views. In New York City, go on. I feel like I can see it in the way that Connecticut and New Jersey from here. and I am at the offices of McKinney which is an independent advertising agency which is bumping right now it was hard to get a space in here it feels like it's 2021 great sorry 2019 in the building pre-pandemic maybe like 18 even go on and I'm here because little dot studios which is this digital video production distribution and monetization company that has over 800 youtube channels, they put together this white paper called Understanding the New Era of YouTube Viewing in 2026 with some fascinating findings, by the way.

0:58Rachel Stockman:But they had a little breakfast for, you know, VIPs. And some of the findings real quick, Lauren, I just want to touch on this for a second. They found that 120 minute video on average in Little Dot's data set earned 100 times more revenue than a 20 minute video. 120, like a movie? like a yeah like 120 minute long video uh compilation of a compilation we're talking about like a fire like like the fire you know like the fire like your fire in your house you you're talking about you lock you lock you lock the fire you lock was that what they're talking about perhaps that but also video compilations also like best of clips i mean they have a lot of footage across these 800 channels and they put together some big things very long podcasts what the data tells us kids what the data tells us wild right and you can go check it out at little dot and also we wrote about it on tube filter lots of other interesting findings here including what happens when the youtube algorithm ships which have a format's best for you right now in any case that's why i'm out and about in new york city okay i want to jump right into things because we have a really awesome interview today with rachel stockman who is the president of law and crime and law and crime joshua just acquired court tv and it seems like oh yeah okay sure not a big deal.

2:12It's a big deal. Ask me why, Josh. Josh, the reason why is Law and Crime is a digital first entity. And Core TV is, by all arguments, is a broadcast TV channel. Yes, they have somewhat of a YouTube presence, but certainly much more on TV. So digital is now acquiring television. What is this world we're living in? You know what? We're going to get into it with Rachel Stockman now. Welcome, Rachel Stockman, president of Law and Crime, to Creator Upload. Hello, Lauren. Excited to be here. As I said, one of my favorite podcasts. Yes, everybody knows we only have fans on. And I should say welcome back.

2:48This is not your first time. Very excited. But we're having you on for a very specific reason. Yesterday, it was announced that Law & Crime bought Court TV, which is a broadcast channel from EW Scripps. This is so hugely big in the industry in general. And so I want to get right into this and understand And kind of the context of it all, like this might be, dare I say, the first one of the first instances that a digital first company is acquiring a legacy sort of broadcast network. Can you kind of give us your overall thought on that in general and how this marriage kind of, you know, kind of came to be?

3:22Yeah, that's kind of the crazy part about this. 20 years ago, we were talking about legacy acquiring these digital companies. And here we are, YouTube first company now acquiring a legacy media brand. And we really looked at Court TV. First of all, they've been our competition for many years. And they do a great job. And they've built a great brand. So not only do they have that historic brand that has so much brand recognition. For us, it was also the incredible intellectual property they have. I was just looking through some of the trial lists that go back decades. We're talking about 3 ,000 different trials, the most significant cases from around the country.

4:09They have in their archives. Now we have as part of our archives. So we saw this not only as a great acquisition for us in terms of synergies between the two companies. We're the biggest true crime digital brand. They are this iconic legacy brand that has so much recognition, especially in the court and legal space. So we saw it as a great synergy and a way to really help continue to build out the law and crime business. And I do want to add, we are going to continue to maintain them as two separate brands. We're going to continue to operate Court TV and Law & Crime as separate brands. Court TV will be focused on the high profile trials, court content hearings, and on law and crime will continue to lean in on all those big true crime cases going on around the country, as well as the law enforcement programming that we do in other long form documentary storytelling that we do as well.

5:13Okay, this is so yeah. So I mean, it seems like a very kind of perfect marriage, right? You mentioned so the core TV, while it's definitely primarily, obviously, a broadcast kind of, you know, entity, they do have 2 million ish, you know, YouTube subscribers. Obviously, you guys have upwards of 7 million. And so, obviously, I want you to get a little bit more into that synergy, right? Because I think in the best M &A deals, you and I both know, everybody leaves, everybody's getting something they don't have, right? So what do you feel like? I know you guys have also you also done sort of television projects as well.

5:43But can you talk about that like synergy specifically and what each of you is bringing to the table? And I think that's exactly one of the really kind of important things that we saw. We saw there was so much potential, especially on the social media side, to really take the great things that they've been doing on their YouTube. They have a great following, 2 million followers, and continue to expand this. And a lot of how social media is approached by kind of more legacy media brands is, okay, let's do what we're doing on our channel, and then we'll clip it up, and we'll put it on our YouTube channel, or this is marketing for us.

6:20And so when we were meeting with the team, we were really telling them, okay, we kind of need to start thinking about, you know, we were trying to get them to start thinking about it differently. me. It's what are we doing on YouTube first? And then how can you use what we're doing on our channel, on our traditional broadcast channel, on Fast, on wherever else that we're distributing the Core TV brand? And so that's really what we're going to be doing. And I have to say, we're really excited about it. I think the team's excited about it. Launching a new show with Vinnie Paulitan, who is kind of one of the biggest talents in the trial true crime world.

7:01So he's super pumped to start a YouTube first show of his own. So, you know, we're excited about really taking what they're doing so well, but applying this digital first strategy to it. Much like every rom-com, there was a bumpy, there's some bumpy parts, right? So in 2021, I'd be remiss not to mention that, you know, you guys sued Court TV because I believe they said something to the effect of they were the only, you know, live court, sort of TV kind of entity out there, and you were like, yo, not so much. And they did sort of retract, and the lawsuit went away. But that's a long way from that moment in 2021 to acquiring in 2026.

7:38So I think given that backdrop, I think from just an M &A, you don't have to get into super specifics, you're welcome to, but how do you go from that kind of relationship to kind of having these more advanced conversations that lead to sort of an acquisition? Who broaches that? How How does that even evolve? You're definitely accurate. Law and crime and Court TV were probably the biggest rivals. So there was a lot of, you know, friendly competition between the two brands. But I think on the Scripps side, who is their pair company that owns Court TV, they saw this really as a strategic decision on their side in terms of meeting the needs they needed for their shareholders and whatnot.

8:18Got it. No, that makes a lot of sense. And they have. I think they still have a three-year deal with Scripps with regard to their broadcast deal. It's like, do you imagine, you mentioned that you're going to keep them as separate entities. You imagine, if not continuing that, you're definitely going to continue having a beefy, healthy TV presence for Core TV. Absolutely. We're going to continue. They're distributed all over the country on broadcast and cable. We have no plans to stop that. We're going to continue with the live trial programming, but then also work with the team on all the other different ways we can continue to expand the brand.

8:52You know, what I explained to the team is you guys have such a great brand. Now we're going to go where the viewers are. Instead of trying to get the viewers to go to the channel, we're going to go where the viewers are. And, of course, there is a big viewership that continues to watch the channel and that are very dedicated. And we're going to continue to serve them. but also kind of bring in some of the younger viewers that maybe only watch on YouTube or maybe only watch on streaming as well. And, you know, obviously, full disclosure, I worked at Jelly Smack for a long time, who is the parent company of Long Crime and now, I guess, is Court TV.

9:28And so I was there when we acquired Long Crime. So if there's one thing I know is that, you know, asking you what the purchase price is probably not going to get an answer. That's just the culture of what is Jelly Smack. But can you talk a little bit about maybe the structure of the agreement or how you thought about it? Yes. So as part, you know, we really wanted this to be a synergistic partnership with Scripps. So we acquired it from Scripps. We've been working and will continue to work with them for the next couple of months in the transition. And as you mentioned, we do have a multi-year deal with all of their Scripps owned and operated stations.

10:03Well, most of them to continue to distribute the channel as a multicast channel. So it will be a long partnership with the Scripps team. One last question. You mentioned some of this old legacy kind of content, you know, that they have the rights to. Should we expect to see some fun things like, you know, I mean, OJ is what comes to mind, but there's a lot more. There's many trials that have been sort of very monumental in the history of this country. So should we be expecting to see some of that content soon? Yes, we are. Our team is, you know, kind of chomping at the bit to get their hands on some of that material.

10:38So whether that's long form documentaries that we produce for YouTube or elsewhere, you'll definitely continue to see some of that archive. And I think there's such an interest right now on these court cases. And there's quite a few, by the way, big court cases that are coming up, too, that will be coming on both law and crime and court TV. Oh, well, I mean, I can't wait. Rachel Stockman, thank you for joining. And everybody go watch Law and Crime and Court TV. Am I right? Thank you, Lauren. Love seeing you. Fun fact. Thank you so much, Rachel. Fun fact. My brother is an attorney and he is an often commentator on Court TV.

11:19So the worlds are colliding because I worked at Jelly Smack, which acquired Law and Crime, and now Law and Crime acquired Court TV. And my brother's on Court TV. So, I mean, just put that all in your blender.

11:31Rachel Stockman:It's just a lot of schnipper going on. It's like a lot. Never enough. But, you know, there's a lot. Next big story is there's a really, really big deal trial going on right now in California, which basically there's a ton of lawsuits that are kind of suing social media platforms, effectively saying that they're harmful for, you know, teens. And the first one of those cases is now in court right now happening in California. should it be, you know, go in favor of the plaintiff, it could effectively just have this waterfall effect on all of these other cases that are kind of waiting in the wings, essentially saying that this specific lawsuit says it's filed by somebody with the initials KGM, filed a lawsuit in 2023 claiming that she became addicted to the social media sites as a child and experienced anxiety, depression and body images as a result.

12:18So the New York Times says the case has posed one of the most significant legal threats to Meta, Snap, TikTok, and YouTube, potentially opening them up to new legal liabilities for users' well-being, drawing inspiration from a legal playbook used against big tobacco last century. Lawyers plan to use the argument that the company's created addictive products. So this week in the case, Adam Asori testified. He's, of course, the head of Instagram. And he said in his testifying that he does not believe that social media is clinically addictive. He disputing the claims of this lawsuit, he said that instead that it's more like you say you're addicted to a TV show.

12:57He said that people could be addicted to social media in the same way that they could be addicted to a good television show, but it did not mean that they were, quote unquote, clinically addicted, which is more serious. There's always a tradeoff between safety and speech, Mr. Mossori said. We're trying to be as safe as possible and censor as little as possible. I mean, beyond the fact that there's like vast amounts of research that hard sort of like dispute that, I think that that argument, while it sounds really good and seems so well crafted by a good defense attorney, I just it's such a ridiculous comparison, primarily because the nature of television is it's a one way conversation and the nature of social media is it's two ways.

13:36And we're waiting for things and we're and we're posting ourselves and we're looking for, you know, you know, other people that are like us and you can choose. I mean, it's just it's that's just I feel like love it on paper. I love the lawyer that came up with that. I just feel like that is not I just can't imagine anybody would buy that. Right.

13:53Rachel Stockman:It's not just a platform for you to receive entertainment. It's a platform to engage with. And a lawyer on the other side could come up with arguments similar to a casino that engages someone with different types of bells, whistles, treats, environments and more. These social platforms are doing the same thing. Correct. So in their opening statement, Meta argue that KGM, so that's the person who filed a lawsuit, that their mental health issues had been caused by familial abuse and turmoil, not social media. The company also presented medical records to show that social media addiction was not the focus of her therapy sessions.

14:30Interesting to note, YouTube in all of this, it says that it is not a social media company and that its features were not designed to be addictive. So there's a lot of interesting like in that just sentence in and of itself. Do you believe YouTube is a social media platform? I have thoughts on this.

14:43Rachel Stockman:I think it should be measured as if it's a social media platform in terms of usage and in all the different types of data that we get back from these third party measurement agencies that show like usage on TikTok and Snap and Meta. I always want YouTube to be included in there. But I think it's fundamentally different than those other platforms because there's not nearly as much of this two-way relationship that's happening. Don't you think, though, I would make the argument that ever since YouTube shorts, there's not that much difference? I would say there's less. Yeah. But still a little bit of a gap.

15:20Rachel Stockman:I mean, they're playing the same sport for sure. It's just different leagues. One of my favorite parts of the trial I read that the attorney for the plaintiff said that I was talking about meta slogan, move fast and break things, and how it contrasted with how this company frames its research. And Adam Mossori said that their new slogan is, wait for it, slow as smooth and smooth as fast. Yes. So, Lauren, that quotes a widely recognized mantra that's attributed to U.S. Navy SEALs and Special Operation Forces. Also, Ryan Holiday, in his book about stoicism, has a whole chapter on slow, smooth, smooth, fast.

15:57Rachel Stockman:It shows what I know. And so I'm guessing that that book was widely read by everybody at the Facebook executive table. And now they're adopting this. It is hysterical, though. It's hysterical. This kind of like 180 shift. That's hysterical. So, yeah, we're going to see what happens. It can't be underscored how, listen, there's so many countries that are starting to ban social media for kids. Australia, obviously, sort of like leading the way. Doesn't seem like this is stopping anytime soon. I read an article from Jonathan Haidt, famously the writer of The Anxious Generation. He was saying how he went to Davos, you know, just recently, which is the fancy, you know, Switzerland conference where all like the thinkers of the billionaires go.

16:37And he was prepared to sort of, you know, put on this big sort of dog and pony show about why social media should be banned. And meanwhile, like all these countries are doing it. And he's like, this is going so fast in the best possible way. He said he met with leaders from Indonesia, France, and the United Kingdom and the European Union, and they all are kind of moving towards these bans for kids. Some have already acted, including Indonesia and France, and others are likely to do so. I think that in this country, a national ban on social media for kids is, like, much harder to do because our legislature, you know, historically just doesn't legislate.

17:09But they're doing it on the state level. And also, there's this new thing that's happening that Meta TikTok snap agreed to be raided for teen safety. safety. So randomly, the fashion designer Kenneth Cole has started something called the Mental Health Coalition, which is basically, you know, really pushing this sort of ratings for social media companies, which is going to determine how safe these platforms are for users under the age of 18. And the criteria will include how to gauge how easy it is for teens to take breaks from their feeds and determine how often the users encounter inappropriate posts.

17:43So the highest rated platforms will be able to display a shield safe emblem that certifies safety in their feeds and the worst offenders will be called out for their inner ability to root out harmful content so some folks are saying that this might be like an alternative to doing a ban um we'll see if people really adopt these things or it becomes any sort of standard i still think you know it's no

18:05Rachel Stockman:coincidence that at this moment in time these social media companies who have long opposed this are now allowing perhaps a third party to come in and let the public know how well they think they're doing at protecting kids and youth and teens. I think it's also more that like it's really shocking how they're basically like we can't do anything about this. There's nothing we can do. And then suddenly when they're faced with like a ban in a country like in Australia, they're able to figure it out. They're able to root out who all the kids are. Like apparently in Australia, there's you know, the worry was that like all these adults are going to accidentally be taken down and it's been very minimal.

18:41Like it's not difficult to do this. It's like you verify it. And especially when it's on, because right now it's not in this country, it's not on the social media platforms, even though they have the policy that says you can't go on before the age of, what is it, 12 or 13. It's actually not their responsibility to enforce that, which is insane. Right. And so like when it all of a sudden is their responsibility, like in places like

19:02Rachel Stockman:Australia, lo and behold, these smart people figure it out. That's all we got today. The one One thing I did want to bring up was that Mr. Beast bought Step, which is a financial service company, which is super interesting. Beast Financial, he trademarked that like last year. And so now I feel like this is the big step forward in that. So that's my big upload. Josh got kicked out of the room he was recording in in New York City. So who knows what happened to him. In the meantime, we will be back next week. Today's show is produced by Lauren Schnipper, Joshua Cohen. That's me and Adam Conner. It's edited by Adam Conner, too.

19:33Rachel Stockman:Original music is by London Bridge. You can check him out on Instagram at London Bridge Music. make sure you subscribe to creator upload right here on youtube on apple podcast as well spotify or wherever you're listening while you're there give us a rating and leave us a comment if you want to talk to this up at info at creator upload.com if you like our show recommend it to a friend if you love it just tell everyone thanks for listening to creator upload and we will be back next week