MISSING: Trevaline Evans

25:12He doesn't see a world where his sister just up and leaves without a word. And listen, I came into this case fresh off of listening to, there's this podcast called The Vanishing of Janice Rose. So, like, I had a really solid example of what leaving a life looked like. And all the people left behind who swore, like, that you never would. But, I mean, it could be the case here. Like, what do they know? I mean, might not be anything more than we do. Even though it's always a possibility that she ran off without taking anything with her. Statistically, it's not probable. Like, it's so unlikely. So then, did Mystery Man kill her?

25:46To me, that's the only reason that he wouldn't come forward. He's either with her or he did something to her. Or he helped her get away. Listen, this is like a little fringe. I'm literally like making up it as I go. But there are like some weird pieces to this that I don't think get enough weight. So for 10 years, they're looking for Mystery Man. They get nothing. Treveline just, poof, vanished into thin air. But then something weird happens. In 2001, police form something like a little task force to reexamine this cold case. One room, 10 officers, all dedicated to tracking Treveline's movements in the three days before she vanished.

26:29That kind of sounds like writing a Crime Junkie episode. Exactly. And from this, they drop a bombshell. They say the sketch of Mystery Man should be ignored. What? They give us nothing as to what happened, why the sketch is wrong, what about it is wrong. Just like, just kidding, disregard. Well, yeah, here's what's so weird. Lots of people will talk about this case in a way that implies Mystery Man is no longer important. But that's not what I read. Nobody says he's not involved or he's no longer important to the case. They just say that the sketch is inaccurate. it. I have a list of follow-up questions because they had so many witnesses.

27:15I know. So was the sketch just wrong and a decade on they don't have much hope for witnesses giving them something useful? Or did they ID him but he turned out to not be important? And again, to be clear, that is not what they're saying. Wait, they're not saying anything. Right. But many years later when the documentary In the Footsteps of Killers is produced, or they do a single episode on this case. A woman named Linda is interviewed, and she says that shortly after Treveline went missing, she began dating one of Treveline's brothers, Phil. They were together for like five years following the time she disappeared.

27:54And when she's being interviewed, she's like, I don't know what all this mystery man talk is all about. That man, that sketch is without a doubt her brother, Phil. Wait, what? I'm confused. Girl, me too. How would no one know it was her brother? So Treveline has two brothers, right? Len and Phil. Okay. Len lived in town, but Phil traveled for work a ton apparently. So locals probably wouldn't recognize him. Mystery. Got it. Yeah, but in an article I found, it says that he was in town that week from Switzerland. And listen, the side-by-side pictures of them are interesting. Oh, that's the same man.

28:36Yeah. Okay. And in every picture that this ex is showing in that episode, Phil is in a dark suit jacket. I mean, honestly, this makes sense to me. She's all over town with this guy. Doesn't really add up for a secret love affair. Nothing to hide with your brother. Yeah, there's nothing to hide if it's just your brother. So if it's true, she could have walked away. The problem I have, though, with this. Okay, it's Phil. How is this not confirmed? Like, Phil had to have heard about Mystery Man. He had to have mentioned to police all the times that he saw her when he was in town, if that was him.

29:12Because that would be, like, very, very solidly confirmed sightings. Because, like, her brother is with her the whole time. Right. Like, in my mind, I'm like, again, Linda's like, oh, this is for sure her brother. And I'm like, I feel like police would know that. So is this terrible police work? And also her brother Phil is living under a rock. Or my only third option for Mystery Man, what if she didn't leave with him at all? What if he just helped her leave? And listen, I'll admit, this one is the most far-fetched, but if Mystery Man is Phil, and this wasn't the most bungled investigation of all time, that is the only thing that makes sense to me.

29:52The only reason he would be the guy who's seen with her over and over for days, but then not admit it is if he knows where she is or is hiding or helped her or something. And is like protecting her by not saying anything. Yes? Question mark? I don't, you know what I mean? Like, it's the only thing that, like, it's the only way Phil makes sense to me. Okay. Well, where's Phil now? Can't police just talk to him? No. Phil is, Phil's dead now. Okay. I only have more questions. I know. If it was him, if she did leave willingly, whether he helped her or not, what's the why? Like, why is she walking away from her whole life, like, with his help or without it?

30:32There's no good explanation for that. I mean, all of the reporting talks about her being in this happy marriage. She just opened this shop within, like, the last couple of years. She's planning for retirement. Yeah, like a new little house. New grandbaby. On paper, life is 10 out of 10. But the other bombshell that Phil's ex dropped in that In the Footsteps of Killers episode is she says none of that is true. That Treveline wasn't happy. And she says that Richard wasn't all that nice of a guy. So, I don't know, maybe now that her son was married, had a family of his own, she wanted out while she still had some life to live.

31:11But just get divorced. I mean, it seems like a way easier solution if that's what she wanted, but maybe it wasn't an option. Or maybe she just didn't want to go that route. Barring a situation where she was afraid of Richard, I would think that she'd want to take some stuff with her to start over, like money, her car. I mean, maybe she had someone else who was helping her, a la Phil or a lover who is or isn't our mystery man. Or maybe she'd been preparing for this. I mean, remember, so there were those rumors of an affair, were multiples of fairs in town or whatever. Well, in the In the Footsteps of Killers episode, they actually talk of at least one affair like it is a sure thing.

31:52And they say that they learned she had actually gotten an inheritance of like 10 ,000 pounds from a man that she'd been having an affair with who passed away. Now, I don't know when that was or if that money was still accounted for. But like, if true, pretty interesting in my book. Yeah, that that does kind of change things. But again, I think part of the reason I'm like, was it? Is because it doesn't seem to change things for police. They say Traveleen was met with some sort of foul play at the hands of someone she knew, which makes me go back to did they do a terrible job the first time around?

32:27Either ignore this or not dig deep enough to learn this? Or maybe, like I said before, maybe it's not that interesting as the documentary or the episode presents it to be. So if this inheritance thing is real, I imagine Richard had to have known about it, right? Like, I can't imagine that went over well. He might have. I mean, maybe that's why he seems so willing to accept that she just left. I mean, Richard consistently is the one who talks to Travoline in early news reports, like, as though she's alive, asking her to come home. implying that she left on her own while her son and her brother don't even seem to entertain the idea.

33:05But if you believe that, if Richard believed that she left, if he knew, like, why not allude to the fact that she had a reason to go instead of saying that you guys had, like, this great happy life, happy marriage, or whatever? I mean, to save face? Maybe. But there's another reason you do that, too. If you want to divert attention. Which brings me to theory number three. What if Richard did something to his wife? Going back to 2001, after they brought that group of investigators together, this is the same time that they said the sketch is inaccurate, they also arrest Richard. Oh, I'm sorry. You could have led with that.

33:45Well, I'll tell you why I didn't. According to the BBC, after some questioning, Richard is released that same day without facing any charges. Police never call him a suspect. They also never explicitly say that he's cleared. The only official statement we could find is that according to the BBC, they released him, quote, pending further inquiries. And if they ever questioned him again, it, again, didn't result in any charges. Now, the timing sure feels suspect to me. Yeah, I mean, you can see my face. Like, hey, this picture we said was so important for a decade. Forget about that. Probably not accurate.

34:22Husband is arrested. The timing feels calculated. Yeah. To me, at least. It feels very like, hint, hint, wink, wink. This is the direction we're looking without actually saying anybody is officially anything. I can't put words in police's mouth. I can only tell you what they did. Okay. Because they never say anything about Richard. And I don't have access to the police file. So I can't tell you what they were thinking or even, like, I would die to know what came of the questioning. or like what questions they asked. Yeah, I mean, to be a fly on that wall. And listen, I have zero evidence backing this up, but I wonder if in 2001, like could they have talked to Phil's ex for the first time?

35:06Like it makes sense to me that she would have never been spoken to early on because it seems like they met right after Treveline went missing. Right, she didn't know Treveline. Yeah, so day one investigators miss her. Even people a couple of months on are like, oh, like why would this new girlfriend who wasn't even around have anything? Like just skip her. Yeah. But if she got in touch with investigators, 10, 11 years on and started telling them things, the two bombs that she drops in that episode would explain to me the exact two things that happened, right? 1 ,000%. Bomb one, she says, I think Mystery Man is Phil.

35:36Picture gone. And then bomb two, I didn't tell you the whole thing. Yes, she said that their marriage wasn't great, whatever, whatever. She also said that sometime after Treveline disappeared, furniture and carpet were moved out of Treveline Richards' home. Wait, but how does she know this? Bill told her about the carpet and furniture. And the two of them thought that it was so weird because if you still think your wife is going to come back, you're talking to her. You're asking her to come back in the news. Yeah, getting rid of a bunch of stuff in your house is probably going to be a shock to her.

36:09Like, is now really the time? And when was he supposedly doing this? Like, was he moving it to the retirement house maybe? No, no, because he never ends up moving to the retirement house. He ends up selling it and he ends up converting her antique shop to a residential housing, like rents it out. So, I mean, I guess TBD timing, maybe he was moving some of the furniture to the shop to furnish the apartment. I don't know. And I don't know exactly when the girlfriend heard about this or like when this exactly was supposed to happen. I just know shortly after she went missing. She also says that after her and Phil were together, Richard would come by the pub that she worked at to talk to her.

36:46and looking back, she thinks that he was trying to find out what she knew or what Treveline's brothers were maybe talking to her about. Like a temperature check. Yeah, but she said it was so weird because like in all the times that he did talk to her, he showed no emotion, never asked questions, never said that he loved his wife, missed his wife, which she found weird. But I don't know. So here's the thing. Like, I know I teed this up being like, you know, her two things, Phil is Mystery Man, Richard removing carpet furniture. And like them not being happy. Yeah, maybe those two things explain what police did in 2001, but I also can't make those two things work together.

37:22Phil, as mystery man, only makes sense to me if he was like helping traveling get away. Right. Which no one ever suggests to be true. But then if he helped her get away, why is Richard moving furniture? Then Richard has nothing to do with it. Yeah, and even if he did that, it's not suspicious. Right. It has nothing to do with why she's gone. There's no sense. I mean, you see why police is calling this one of the most confusing cases their department has ever worked, ever seen. Yeah. So, OK, can we just like pause for a second and like go down a path with me? If Richard is involved in some way, break it down.

37:56Is his alibi of being out of town bogus? I'm not going to go down a path with you. I'm going to take you down the rabbit hole with me. Let's go. So Richard is supposed to be in Rudland, right? An hour away. But police had initially reported that he didn't get back until 5 p.m. And I read somewhere that workers could confirm that he was at this bungalow where the work was being done. But I only saw that in like one article. And there was some stuff even saying that Richard and Treveline only had one car. So he like couldn't have gotten back. But like in my mind, I'm like, but he did. Because he got to the shop.

38:30Whether it's at 5 or whatever, we know he gets back. Like maybe he got a ride. I don't know. But anyways, if he's not back until 5, he's in the clear. since everyone believes something happened to her around 2.30 when she was last seen near her house. Well, fast freaking forward. At some point, there are changes in news reports about when Richard gets home without any real explanation as to why all of a sudden it's changed. Sometimes people call it lunchtime that he's back. In that TV episode I was talking about, they get more specific and say that a police source told them Richard was seen at a local pub at 2.30.

39:062.30, like exactly when she goes missing. Yes. Now, a bunch of blogs that I've seen go on the other extreme, and they say that he was for sure in Rudland, and actually he kept calling the house and shop, and when he couldn't get her, he called a neighbor to go check, and they're the first to realize the shop is locked. They call and tell him. He calls police, maybe from Rudland. But for the life of me, I have no idea where these blogs are getting that information because nothing even close to that is in the news reports that I have access to. But even if he was there that whole time and calling the neighbor, I'm not even sure that puts him in the clear in my mind.

39:48I mean, without knowing the timing of the calls, I can't say if he did or didn't have time to go back and forth between his bungalow and their home. Did they ever do any of the searches for her up where the bungalow was? Yes, but not when or why you might think. And really, this is when and where our case becomes active, like in present day and gets exceptionally more weird. So before I tell you what I'm about to tell you, let me set the stage a little bit. So there's this wild tip that police get in March 2019. Based on all the reporting that was out there before, it seemed like these two men got a tip given to them that led them to believe they knew where Treveline's body was.

40:33And a ton happens after this. Police search, they don't find anything. Then something even stranger happens. And then like a lot of people just end up writing these guys off. Like, oh, they're just making it up. But when I was looking at this case, I'm like, why? Like they have no connection to Treveline, no reason to be doing this. They don't gain anything. and they are still so convinced that their information is right. They say they have pictures, but of course the pictures aren't published anywhere. So obviously I need to get my hands on those pictures. And what I really wanted to know is where did this tip originate from?

41:10That is never reported on. And to me, it feels pretty important. Like, can I solve Treveline's case from another country? Probably not. But am I going to try? One thousand percent. I couldn't call myself a crime junkie if I didn't. And this felt like the one place I knew I might actually get answers. Because unlike the rest of this story, where everyone I wanted to talk to has already passed and can't give me the details I need, these two brothers, Andrew Sutton, an accountant, and Lee Sutton, a carpenter, they're still alive and have connections to this little place you might have heard of for the first time today, Ruddland.

41:46So I asked our reporter, Taylor Hartz, to track them down and ask them how this tip came out. And this is a story that, in Andrew's own words, is stranger than fiction. So get ready. Andrew Sutton told us that in 2019, his brother Lee, Lee's the carpenter, he was doing some construction work on a bungalow in Rudland. And when Lee mentions this to Andrew, Andrew thinks of Traveleen. Her case is like local lore in North Wales. And when Andrew hears bungalow in Rudland, like to him, there is only one bungalow in Rudland. Obviously, that's not true. So not surprising when Lee brings it up to the owner and he's like, no, no, no, this isn't the same bungalow that Treveline and Richard owned.

42:34But actually, this guy that he's talking to remembers the case well, too. and he said that Richard used to spend quite a lot of time at the same bar that this guy did at the Rudland Golf Club, which like nothing burger to Lee, right? Like Lee didn't really know about this case. Like he's like, okay, cool. He goes on with his day. But as he's packing up at the end of the day, he's making small talk with this guy asking him like, oh, well, do you still go to that pub at the golf club? And the guy's like, no, you know, I actually stopped going to the Ruddland Golf Club because it started to smell inside.

43:08And Lee said in that moment, he literally dropped whatever was in his hand because he had heard that before. So he said that back in 1990, young Buck in his 20s, he was in the construction trade then, like he is later. But he says back then he did work for this older guy. And every day, this guy did lunch at the golf club. Now, this guy, again, he seems to be retired or whatever. And Lee said that he used to work at the golf club back in the day. So this was like his spot. Lee knew his routine. He would leave. He'd be gone for about an hour or so for lunch. Come back. Well, one day in 1990, he leaves for his lunch at the club, but he's back within like 15 minutes.

43:50So Lee's like, why back so soon? And this guy said that there was this terrible smell in the building. He like could not take it. Now, he confirmed Guy in 1990 and Guy in 2019 did not know each other. Like he asked 2019 Guy. So he's got two separate people over the course of almost 30 years telling him about this horrible smell at the club in the summer of 1990. Now, his brother, Andrew Sutton, told us that 2019 Guy said it wasn't just him that was bothered by the smell. A lot of people were complaining about it. So much so that they complained to staff at the golf club. And he said the golf club was adding an extension at the time.

44:31So employees reached out to the contractors and the contractors were basically like, oh, you know, an animal must have just like gotten in under the floorboards and died. Is that where the smell was coming from? Like, is it where the construction was? So, no, that's the weird part. But like from what they were hearing, it was just like nobody wanted to deal. They were kind of all satisfied saying like, listen, had to be an animal that died. It's decomposing. Yes, the smell is horrible, but it's eventually just going to go away on its own. So as you can imagine, after Lee hears this, he immediately calls his brother and is like, hey, I asked about that bungalow, not the one you're thinking of, but you're never going to believe this.

45:10And both of them are just kind of like stunned. So they decide to go on a field trip. Like they got to see this thing for themselves, right? Like, because there's no way. Two random brothers, one who'd never even heard about the case, they're not going to find something that police haven't. But what if? Again, this is like sounding like the creation of a crime junkie episode. So in the most responsible fashion, they actually go to police first. They make sure that they have this information to check it out. And then they wait. Surely there's going to be a search or they're going to hear something back.

45:44Hey, FYI, we looked into it. It's nothing like things for the tip. But they don't. Even when they try following up with police. Police are like, listen, we may look into it. We may not. It's like not your problem to worry about. by, which isn't enough for them. Like they got a bee in their bonnet about this thing now because Lee has been catching up on Treveline's case in this time. He watched the Crime Watch special that was filmed within two months of Treveline going missing. And he sure didn't like how Richard, who, by the way, is already dead in 2019 when all this is happening. Lee doesn't like how Richard keeps slipping into past tense now and then talking about his missing wife.

46:23Which, like, we've seen before and it always makes me side-eye because, like, you would have to consciously correct yourself if you knew something. I know. And I honestly, when I first watched it, like, and I'm like the crime junkie, I didn't even pick up on the past tense thing my first go around. The thing that, like, really kind of drove me up a wall is I noticed that in all of Richard's interviews, anytime he, like, talks about the police investigation, he's, like, praising them. Like they did everything they could. Like they're doing a great job. And maybe they did. I'm just saying I've never seen a case where a missing person is never found over decades.

47:01And the family is like, you did all you could do. Like there was like, I'm not saying there's a first time for everything. But like there's usually like some hesitation, some like question marks. What else could we have done? Like we could have done this earlier. Can we explore other options? But like the, yeah. But anyways, all that to say like they're honing in on their own things. and the Sutton brothers are not going to let this go. I don't know if they would have called themselves crime junkies before, but Lee and Andrew, you are crime junkies. So at some point, Lee decides to go take a look at this floor for himself.

47:33Like, what's what? Could a body be down there? Could it just be an animal? And when he does, he doesn't think that there's any way an animal could have gotten under this floor accidentally and died causing this smell. He thinks the only way something dead wound up under those floorboards would be if it was put there by someone. And they are going to figure out what it is if it is the last thing they do. And they know exactly how. So this building has an air brick right near where this smell originated from. And I actually had to look up. I didn't know what an air brick was. It is exactly what it sounds.

48:09It's like shaped like a brick, but it has holes. So like it's vented. You can go through it. Yes. Right there in the name, Ashley. Now, the holes are too small to actually see anything, and it's obviously, like, dark under there. But Andrew knows a tool that they can use. So one Saturday morning in March of 2019, they go to a hardware store, and they buy a Stanley fiber optic LED inspection camera, which is basically this tiny little thing that you hold. It has a screen on the front, and then it's like a little tube. Like a scope. Yeah. That's the word. Man, today. So it has this little scope, so you can put it in tiny holes.

48:44Okay. So they buy this, they go straight to the golf club, specifically the bar, and they're like sitting there inside, like putting the batteries in, playing around with it, figuring out how it worked and coming up with a little white lie. Because they felt like if they told the people at the club that they're going to go hunting around for a dead body, like. Might not be welcome at the club. Yeah, they're not going to be super into it. So when the guy at the club is like, oh, what are you doing with that? They make up a story. And one of them is like, oh, you know, my brother's going to buy this house and I want to check that the floors haven't like brought it out or whatever.

49:13Do you mind if I just test it out here? And the guy's like, sure, whatever, go for it. Britt. Okay, I am going to show you the pictures. These have never been published before anywhere in the world. And this is what they see seconds after putting the camera through the air vent. Oh, my God.

49:37I wish the quality was better here. The Stanley camera doesn't record. it like that camera thing on it is just a viewer yeah so what you're looking at is pictures that the brothers took of like the view screen or whatever okay i don't need it to be any clearer ashley i i think i'm looking at a human skeleton i know and even like the printouts i feel like don't do it justice the second i saw it i'm like i mean i feel like skull eyes spine there's like maybe a hole in the skull it actually that's like more pronounced when you print it out So I mean, like, I don't know. I looked at this and I saw it in the same way that I think that they did.

50:16I saw it instantly. I was a little surprised that apparently our so our reporter saw it, too. So did another reporter we have who's a former detective. But apparently everyone else in the office like didn't. They were like, oh, yeah, no, there's nothing there. So like, I don't know if I'm the one who's like losing it. It's also one of those things like, am I being biased? Like, I know what I'm looking for, so I'm seeing it. One of those things, but. I mean, it doesn't look like anything else. At least not to me. And listen, I told you, these have never been published anywhere before, even though these men have talked to news outlets.

50:50Wait, why not? I don't know. Like, when we talked to Lee, he said that they tried to get these pictures out there. Like, they've had interviews scheduled with other reporters who just ghosted them. And then when they did a sit down with one journalist who actually heard them out, they never ended up publishing anything. So Lee says they feel like they just keep like hitting brick wall after brick wall until we called. Now, they gave the photos to us no problem. Like they're dying for someone to take them more seriously. It makes no sense to me. And listen, I mean, like, obviously, I haven't been able to authenticate these photos.

51:24I asked the brothers if any other people have tried and they said no. Truly, when they were first just, like, talking about this and I hadn't seen them, I was like, you know what? Like, this is going to be so vague. You probably can't see anything. That's why everyone writes them off. Like, it's probably why everyone doesn't want to publish them. Because they're blurry and it's, like, yeah, vague. I know, but then I see them and I'm like, what are we doing here, people? So, okay, back to the story. They stick the scope down the air brick. They see this. What do they do then? Well, they're in shock for a minute, as you can imagine.

51:55But they leave. So they said that they left. It was like a weekend. And for like the weekend, they're like staring at these pictures like this can't be real. But like they really felt like it was real. So they took the pictures on March 14th. On March 19th, they come back to the golf club and they tell the people at the club what it is they found and they need to call police. And Lee says that the guy that they were telling this to at the club just, quote, went to pieces and was like, well, well, how do you know? Who is it? How long has she been there? And Lee obviously said, he's like, you know, I don't know.

52:31Like, we just know what our photos show. There appears to be a body under the floor. He said at that point, there was this other woman who appeared. She seemed to be in charge at the golf club as well. And Lee said that she was asking about how this might affect their business. Now, we tried calling the golf club ourselves to ask a manager about how all of this went down. But when we did, the manager was already gone for the day or out of the office or in London, and they have not called us back yet. But we do know that staff at the golf club and the Sutton brothers called police when Andrew and Lee showed them the photos.

53:06And Andrew says that within a half hour, a large number of officers from Northern Wales PD show up. They show them where they think the body is, show them the pictures. and Lee says that he followed police inside to this room right above where they spotted the body. And guess what's on the floor? This trap door. It's like two feet by three feet-ish, they estimate. There's this big heavy freezer over part of it. And Lee got a chance to get on the floor and really get like a good look at it. And here's the really interesting part. He said that it looked like it had not been opened in a long time.

53:46I think the interesting part is that police are just letting him examine this with them. I think he like snuck in. I guess he was wearing something that like maybe similar to what you might be wearing if you're actually going to go in that crawl space to collect the body. And there were like so many people. He kind of just like slipped right in there. But once they realized who he was, they did kick him out. But importantly, he said that as he's leaving, he can hear them like prying the door open. and he could hear the nails screeching in a way that you only hear when something is like decades old.

54:17And he's the carpenter brother, right? So like he kind of knows what he's talking about here. Yeah, and he's like, I'm walking out and I'm like, this is it. They're going to find her. But this is like when he's getting shootout. So they make him go outside where Andrew was waiting. And then they're moved even farther away from where the work is being done. And it's weird. This officer who is leading them away, Lee says that he says the strangest thing to him. He says that their photos would never hold up in court. And Lee's like, court? Like, who's talking about court? Like, what? It's just weird.

54:48But, I don't know, in the moment, whatever. So they're in the clubhouse just waiting. And the officer in charge comes back to Lee and Andrew and says, hey, we want you to put your camera back in. Just, like, see what you can see. So they go back. They put their camera back in. And this is what they see. Where'd it go? Where'd what go? Don't do that. Where's the skeleton? Police say there never was a skeleton. They say they found nothing. Now, that's what we get in the official reporting when police talk to news outlets. We searched. We found nothing. Andrew and Lee told us, though, that as they were pulling the camera out, I mean, confused as hell about what was going on.

55:35They said, like, again, as it's coming out, they spot something. A bone, maybe like 10 inches long. And Lee starts getting all excited. He's like, there, okay, do you see this? And he shows the camera to the detective inspector. And they get no explanation, like nothing. They are just asked to leave, go to the station for statements, which they do. They go, they give statements. And they leave thinking that they're going to hear something about the bone that they saw altogether. But they don't. The next day, they just get a call and police say there is nobody. But then what am I looking at back here?

56:10What is that? Feel crazy? Yeah. The brothers feel crazy. Like I said before, they've met with reporters. They've met with people who, the ones who did that like episode on this case. But they feel like they're screaming into the void. Yeah, Ashley, there was a body there. According to police, there was not. But if these pictures are real, then... Then I would think someone moved her body. And that's exactly what the Sutton brothers think happened. Specifically, they think someone in the police department removed it. They're pretty vocal about this theory and Lee posts about it all the time on his social media.

56:50But of course, I mean, there's no real evidence to support this. Right. Like if there's nobody, there's nobody to remove. And we don't have a statement from the police department on this. So like why the police though? My first thought went to someone at the golf club. I mean, there was like four or five days between them putting the scope down, taking the pictures, and then when they go back to call police. It seems like that's what seemed like the obvious answer to me. But I mean, talking to the brothers, like what makes them so convinced of their theory is they always point back to the trap door.

57:21They say that there's absolutely no other way to get to that spot where they think the skeleton was other than the trap door. And Lee is adamant that when he saw that trap door and heard it being removed, he knew that that thing had been shut tight when police opened it. And that when they're opening it, that was the first time that that had been done in like decades. But how would they remove a skeleton with all of those people? I mean, you said there was like a crowd. Dude. With no one noticing. I don't know. And also, why? Like a cover up like this would take a lot of people. Why would a lot of people have a vested interest in this?

57:59I was going to say, and to protect who? Like, there's a lot of question marks as to what the motive would be to do this. To me, the only person who wins if she's not found there is the golf club. Right. But again, the brothers don't leave a lot of room for who. They point squarely at police, and they even end up filing a formal complaint against the police, criticizing their handling of the case. The Independent Office of Police Conduct reviewed the complaint and then sent the matter back to the police department that they're making the complaint against. Like, listen, this is like an internal matter.

58:31You guys should handle it. And the police department is like, we reject this complaint. This complaint on this case that didn't happen to them. Case closed on their end. So that's it. The brothers are written off as loony randos who imagined this whole thing while I'm over here like, but did they? Yeah, I mean, let's hang out here just a minute longer. If there really was a body under the floorboards, if it really was put there the summer of 1990, if it was Treveline, to me, that kind of points to just one person. Mm-hmm. And Andrew and Lee have a whole theory about this. They say that they've heard Richard and Treveline were having problems and that she was actually on the verge of leaving him, which they think led to some sort of altercation and ultimately her death.

59:18And we know his bungalow was close by the golf club. And he, by his own omission, says he's in Rudland when she goes missing. Right. Like that was his alibi. The whole thing started because someone who used to go there says in 1990 Richard drank at the golf club bar. And we weren't able to verify this, but Andrew and Lee say they even believe that Richard was working as a handyman at the golf club that summer. What? I know. Wait, what did he do for a living? Like, was he always a handyman? He worked in maintenance. I think it was like at like a chemical plant. So like, it's totally plausible that he could have been doing work there.

59:56Again, we haven't heard back from anyone at the golf club, so we haven't been able to confirm this. But anyways, the brothers are saying that they heard this from other people. Because obviously people telling them to like, shoo, shoo, shoo, go away. Like, this doesn't make them less interested in this. And they have talked to a lot of people about it since. So they think Richard would have had access to a storage room off the kitchen where they say there was a trap door leading underneath the floor. and they think that he could have put Traveline's body under there to cover up a crime. I mean, hypothetically, it could work.

1:00:31He gets back to Lynn Gofflin, scoops her up in the car. I mean, she'd get in with him. Someone she knew. Or maybe something happens in her shop. He drives her off to another town. Listen, what's so weird to me is based on everything I've read, police never even searched the whole Ruddland area back then, by the way. So, like, I mean, she totally could have been hidden away if she was there. And then he ends up selling the bungalow. So even he doesn't keep ties to that town. But when would he have put her under the floor? I mean, she went missing on a Saturday. You can't just, like, walk into a golf club on a Saturday afternoon and hide a dead body under the bar.

1:01:07Like, what's the timing of it then? I don't know. Like, she would have had to have been somewhere else, at least for a little while. Which, like, I don't know, whatever. That's doable. The part that's outlandish to me is how ballsy you would have to be to put anything dead under the floor and not expect someone to go looking for it. Like, who doesn't know that a body is going to start to smell, right? Especially when you, like, have this other house of theirs right, like, the bungalows right there where, like, no one else is. Yeah. If someone would have, like, smelled this and gone looking for it and found that it was Treveline, like, he's right there.

1:01:42There would have been no one else to blame but him. Well, yeah, and that doesn't really make sense to me either. If there was a trap door there, why didn't they go looking for the smell in the 90s? We know it was bad for business. People left. Well, the only thing I can think is that maybe it was already nailed shut. Then crack it open? Maybe. You think it's a raccoon. You're like, I don't know. Maybe the smell wasn't as bad as everyone remembered. I don't know. I have spiraled on this. I'm even like, I mean, I've gone deep. I'm like, who owned the golf club in 90? Like, online property records for North Wales.

1:02:19Like, they don't go back that far. Would someone have kept such a big secret for Richard? Is everyone still keeping the secret? And that's why the body was moved. But like, why would a whole department be hiding a secret for a dead man? Richard died in 2014. Like, dude, this is, was there no body after all? But wait, just when you start thinking that, this happens. In 2021, this small metal plaque seems to appear mysteriously one day, bolted to a bench on a walkway just outside of Rutland. No one knows when exactly it got there or who put it there. And it looks like one of those little memorial plaques that usually say, like, in memory of whoever.

1:03:04Except this message looks handmade, like someone actually scratched a message into the medal. A message that reads, In memory of Treveline Evans, vanished 16-6-1990, found Rudland GC 14-3-2019, removed 19-3-2019, RIP. So the Sutton brothers put it there. That was my first thought, but they say that they're not responsible for it. they actually think that it might have been a relative of Trevelyne's or maybe someone from the police department who put the plaque up, someone who maybe was there while they were excavating. And like, I don't know, this is their way of like whistleblowing. But again, there's no evidence to back that up.

1:03:53So I don't... And this is like a public bench. Like it's owned by the town. It is. But I mean, this is definitely not like a town-sanctioned plaque. Right. Like the local government actually had it removed. But then another one pops up. This time outside an old miner's cottage a few minutes away from the first bench. This one's same size, same material, same like sketchy handwriting it seems. But the message is longer this time. I'm going to have you take a look at this one instead of reading it. You can do it. Justice awaits those responsible for the removal and disposal of Treveline Evans, in this life or the next, from Redland Golf Club on March 19, 2019 at noon.

1:04:32And may the Lord have mercy upon their souls. Nude is specific. I know. I can't find anything about what time of day the, like, they searched for her or whatever, took up the floor. And of course, like, no one knows who put this plaque up either. Now, it's been quiet since 2021. But maybe that's because no one was listening. If enough people talk about this case, talk about these pictures, maybe more people will feel comfortable coming forward and speaking if they know something. There's been a fifth theory explored over the years that, you know, Treveline could have just been in the wrong place at the wrong time and gotten caught in the crosshairs of a stranger, perhaps a serial killer.

1:05:13In 2011, police explored this avenue and looked into two different serial killers in the area, Robin Ligas and Christopher Halliwell. Robin killed a few men in the area around that time, one of whom was an antiques dealer, but they couldn't find any solid connection to Treveline or actually any other female victims. As far as I can tell, all of his victims were male, so it seems like he was ruled out. And then with Christopher, he did kill women, and apparently he used to work as a window cleaner who had a habit of stealing antiques. And back when Treveline disappeared, he was apparently working in North Wales.

1:05:49But they've never been able to definitively tie him to Trevelin's case either. And sure, a serial killer is possible. But is it probable? And who was the mystery man? Where does he fit into all of this? Does he exist? Or is he a fiction of everyone's imagination like police say the skeleton under the floor was for the Sutton brothers? Someone out there can answer that question. And if that's you, you can email me, tips at audiochuck.com. I'll be looking for your message.

1:06:46be sure to join the fan club. You'll also get early access to new episodes every week. And you can follow us on Instagram at Crime Junkie Podcast. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode.

1:07:23Crime Junkie is an Audio Chuck production. I think Chuck would approve.