In short
“Big Surveillance” in Houston, Texas, focusing on Flock Safety’s automatic license plate readers (ALPRs) and related AI surveillance, how data sharing expands police power, and fears about immigration enforcement via ICE. It also compares local adoption (e.g., Memorial Villages Police) with backlash (vandalism, contract cancellations like San Marcos).
Guests and backgrounds
Christopher Rivera, works with the Texas Civil Rights Project; Jasmine Cadim-Gonzalez, immigrant rights organizer with Houston Democratic Socialists of America; Maria (late 20s, second-generation immigrant, U.S. citizen with an undocumented partner); Garrett Langley, founder/CEO of Flock Safety; Chief Ray Schultz, Memorial Villages Police Department; Amanda Rodriguez, City Council member in San Marcos with police abolition work background.
Key claims
Flock’s centralized database lets officers search across tens of thousands of cameras; misuse includes alleged officer stalking and searches tied to abortion investigations. ICE may benefit indirectly if local police share access. Flock says ICE has no direct access and that searches require justification and guardrails.
Notable examples
“Flock walk” camera mapping via D-Flock app; Houston police/area camera counts and growth; Houston Police Department calling ICE 100+ times (audit) with 19 transfers; ICE agent fatally shot Lorenzo Salgado Arajo (ongoing dispute about Flock involvement); Chamblee, Georgia kidnapping case used by Flock CEO; Memorial Villages burglary solved via ALPR-linked vehicle; San Marcos ended its Flock contract, but remaining cameras were spray-painted red; federal charges in Georgia over threats to Flock employees.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOSurveillance Landscape in Houston
0:30 to 2:58
An exploration of the surveillance systems in Houston, focusing on Flock Safety cameras.
“We face the greatest challenges of our time.”
Community Response to Surveillance
2:58 to 4:31
Discussion with local activists Christopher and Jasmine about the impact of surveillance on privacy.
“looking at big surveillance in US cities.”
The Technical Aspects of Flock Cameras
4:31 to 7:18
Detailed overview of how Flock cameras work and the data they collect.
“That could mean a police officer here in Houston has access to pictures from tens of thousands of cameras across the U.S.”
Concerns Over Immigration and Surveillance
7:18 to 11:16
Examination of how surveillance technology intersects with immigration enforcement in Houston.
“each with their own contracts and data-showing agreements.”
Flock Safety's Justifications and Challenges
11:16 to 13:46
Discussion on Flock Safety's claims of reducing crime and community skepticism.
“Flock says that ICE doesn't have direct access to its network, but Maria doesn't feel reassured.”
Interview with Garrett Langley
13:46 to 14:00
Interview with Garrett Langley, founder of Flock Safety, discussing the company's mission and issues.
“And I bring that up because I sympathize for the people you're describing in Texas.”
ICE Access to Flock Cameras
14:00 to 17:20
Exploring the complexities of ICE access to Flock surveillance systems.
“Can ICE or federal immigration enforcement access Flock cameras?”
Law Enforcement's Use of Surveillance
17:51 to 20:21
Examining the relationship between local police and surveillance technology.
“big dogs, the sheriff of the county or the Houston police, through smaller police departments to law enforcement of school districts or universities.”
Community Perspectives on Surveillance
20:22 to 22:34
Understanding community reactions and the implications of surveillance technology.
“All it tells us is that this license plate was at this location at this date and time.”
Local Governance and Surveillance Technology
22:35 to 25:17
Insight into local governance decisions regarding surveillance technology.
“Unfortunately, some of these quests that are going on right now to get law enforcement not to use some of these tools, that's just another way to defund law enforcement.”
Show all 12 chapters
The Broader Surveillance Landscape
25:18 to 28:00
Analyzing the growing surveillance systems and public reactions across America.
“And this is the part of the story that's often missed.”
Concerns Over Surveillance Technology
28:00 to 29:18
Explore the implications of increasing surveillance technology in cities, particularly regarding license plate readers and their impact on privacy.
“if you would ask me the size of that net cast versus should we adopt a company like Axon, it's not comparable.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.
0:30at Whole Foods Market. We face the greatest challenges of our time. Challenges that test our limits. There is a place where we can find answers. Where journeys break new ground and connections unlock opportunities. Where innovation can spark real change and our actions can push our world forward. Singapore, where business events can create lasting impact.
1:04Oh, wow. That is completely severed in half. There's a black pole and the bottom half is still stuck in the ground and then about a third of the way up, it's just been sliced in two and the rest of it is just lying on the floor, decapitated. At what would have been the top of the pole is a solar panel and just under that is a surveillance camera. Oh, there's a sign on it. What does it say? Notice 24-7 video recording flock safety. This is one of four flock cameras cut down in this neighbourhood alone but it's been happening all over Houston and increasingly all over the US. Flock can't keep getting away with it.
1:50I'm going to take change all these flock cameras. That looks slightly more illegal. Technically, we are currently detecting this Flock camera via Bluetooth. But before Flock started trending, before vigilantes across America started filming themselves vandalising the company's distinctive licence plate reader cameras, something happened in US cities. High-tech, increasingly interconnected surveillance networks have been growing year on year. Here in Houston, I could be watched by the cameras legally mandated at businesses like petrol stations or monitored by the county's facial recognition software.
2:29Perhaps I could be heard by the sound detection devices used to spot gunshots or looked down upon from on high by police drones. And then there's Flock Safety, the biggest company making automatic license plate readers. Founded in 2017, Flock has today become a byword among the American public for surveillance. I'm Ellie House, and for Crossing Continents, I'm in Houston, Texas, looking at big surveillance in US cities.
3:07My name is Christopher Rivera. I work with the Texasal Rights Project. I'm Jasmine Cadim-Gonzalez, and I'm an immigrant rights organiser with the Houston Democratic Socialists of America. Christopher and Jasmine are part of a network of campaigners opposing flock in their city. They think that all these cameras are an invasion of privacy. It's really building out this mass surveillance network that's from coast to coast. They take me on what they call a flock walk designed to raise community awareness. We stroll through a neighbourhood on the lookout for cameras. So we are coming up on it right now.
3:39It's right in front of us. You can tell it's a flock camera because of the way that the camera is kind of shaped and also because of the solar panel. This is what we're fighting against. This is the automated license plate reader. But this one is powered by AI. When it takes the photo, it clears up the image, and then it reads the license plate, and then it pretty much transfers this information to the database. But they also take more than just your license plate, the whole back of your car. So if you have any identifying bumper stickers or dents or anything, that's something else that police officers are able to search in the Flock database.
4:11It's just a license plate reader, though, no? It's not the issue itself with the license plate reader, right? We've had these sorts of cameras that exist for a long time, but the real problem is the mass database that all of these kind of pictures go into. FLOC's selling point is its centralized network, where its customers can search for footage not only from cameras they own, but from other FLOC cameras that have opted into sharing. That could mean a police officer here in Houston has access to pictures from tens of thousands of cameras across the U.S. And what we've seen is a lot of police officers themselves are using this database to stalk their ex-partners or their current partners.
4:47Around 50 officers have been accused of misusing this system. One police chief looked up his ex and her teenage daughter roughly 600 times. In another case here in Texas, police searched for a woman who had an abortion, even though there was no criminal case against her. In a place like Houston, where we are an extremely car-dependent city, almost everybody needs a car to just get around, it becomes much more of a safety issue when you can tie any individual to their vehicle and everywhere that they go here in Houston. They show me another camera, this one higher up, a white frame above a bulbous black lens.
5:25And then across the street, I want to show you the other condor, and that one's actually a live stream camera. Christopher believes it to be a condor, a broader purpose surveillance camera that has a growing footprint in the flock network. Most flock devices are named after birds. The license plate readers are falcons. This one's a condor. So that one is actually filming us as we move. and they're just much more sophisticated and they have AI as well. So it's like if they typed in black pants, grey shirt, it would pretty much pull us up. It would be able to spot you because that's what you're wearing.
5:58Yeah. Okay. Christopher and Jasmine wave at the camera above us. Well, we've got to let them know we're here and we're watching them just like they're watching us. All right, so we keep going? Yeah, let's keep walking. Jasmine's going to lead us to the next location. and Jasmine actually used the D-Flock app to figure out this route. D-Flock is a crowdsourced app designed to track and map automatic license plate readers, or ALPRs. It's honestly a little bit horrifying because you can literally just zoom out and you can see all of the different ALPR cameras and also mass surveillance cameras that exist here.
6:33OK, so this is like a normal map that you would have on your phone. and on top of it there are just lots of little blue circles and those show where the flat cameras are. Exactly. Really it should be up to our city governments to release the maps of where all of these cameras are just to be transparent to the community. I mean our tax dollars are going to that but we have to instead rely on this kind of open source software to see where all of these cameras are.
7:07This is one of the big unanswered questions. Just how many of these cameras are there and where? It's a difficult number to pin down, with so many different agencies in Houston, each with their own contracts and data-showing agreements. I filed 19 different Public Information Act requests to try and work it out. Many said it's sensitive security data. Some referred the issue to the Texas Attorney General. But what I have worked out, one school district alone, Galena Park, has 11 flock cameras, as well as a brand new AI weapons detection system integrated into its other security cameras. The city's metro owns 35 flock cameras and has access to around 20 ,000.
7:54The city of Houston, of which the police department is a part, owns 840 cameras. But documents from the Flock data sharing network show nearly 1 ,300 devices linked to Houston police. And the picture keeps expanding. In the space of three years, Harris County Precinct 2, an area that wraps around southeast Houston, appears to have bulked up its surveillance from 30 Flock license plate readers to 100, and from three Flock gunshots detection devices to 129. line. Honestly, they're on almost every street corner, it seems like, when you're driving around, especially in a very... And in a city like Houston, one of the most diverse in the United States, close to the border with Mexico, there's another issue that's at the forefront of many people's minds when it comes to surveillance.
8:43Immigration. Another thing is that if ICE goes to a police department, they say, hey, we have these license plates that we'd like you to look up in your database, then a police officer in Georgia can be like, okay, yeah, sure, look up that license plate and then track them and share that information with ICE. That's the Federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement. It's one of the most controversial U.S. agencies, expanded under President Trump, with a goal to detain 3 ,000 people a day. And then the result is that our families here are getting targeted and being put into that deportation pipeline.
9:17I would say fear is overwhelming right now. there's a large impending doom and paranoia. Maria is in her late 20s a second generation immigrant and a lifelong Houstonian. She's a U.S. citizen but her partner is undocumented which means the government would class him as an illegal immigrant eligible for deportation. She asked us not to use her real name. My main concern is that they're going to start pulling over people or tracking them through FLOC and passing over that information to ICE, detaining them and deporting them. To put FLOC's argument to you, they say they don't have any contracts with ICE.
10:00They provide technology, they sell it to law enforcement agencies, and what those law enforcement agencies do with that data is down to them, down to their local laws. Well, if they say that, I don't believe them. And I really don't trust if it's the local agency problem to use that information. Houston Police Department called ICE over 100 times between April and June, according to a compulsory audit, and a person was transferred to ICE custody on 19 of these occasions. I really don't trust the police or ICE right now, and I never have, but specifically right now because of the murder of our community member, Lorenzo Salgado Arrajo, I genuinely do believe that this is an act of profiling, and I think that the FLOC cameras are an incredible way for them to do that.
10:55In July, Lorenzo Salgado Arajo was fatally shot by an ICE agent at a traffic stop. The officers involved said the shot was in self-defence after Salgado Arajo weaponised his vehicle. This has been disputed by the other men who were in the car. An investigation is ongoing, but there's currently no suggestion from authorities that Flock devices were used in the operation that ended in the shooting. Flock says that ICE doesn't have direct access to its network, but Maria doesn't feel reassured. I definitely still feel fearful. I do limit my outings and outings with my partner. We do have to be very strategic and intentional about where we drive to.
11:45it's heartbreaking it's sad because we have like we deserve to to leave our homes and feel safe and at least go to the park or go on walks but that's specifically why the flock cameras are so scary and it feels like this sinister presence flock says that it's their name is flock safety they are trying to prevent crime is there not some element of that that's that's that's good that makes you possibly feel safer i'm sure there have been some success stories of like we were able to track down this car that got stolen like woohoo but i think that the overwhelming fear that it has instilled just isn't worth it and frankly we don't think this is fixing the crime.
12:38I think the root of these issues are lack of access to certain resources, the inflated cost of living. Like, these are the real issues, and these cameras feel like a band-aid. I remember this memory from probably six years ago. It was a town in Atlanta called Chamblee, Georgia. It's a predominantly immigrant community. It's a mixed community. This is Garrett Langley. He's the founder and CEO of Flock Safety. I'm speaking to him at his Atlanta office. And this little boy was kidnapped from his mother's hands of a stroller. And we were able to find the vehicle, get on the highway. And by the time that vehicle pulled into their house, the GBI and local police department were there ready to safely get that kid returned home.
13:31And I'd asked the chief, you know, why did this happen here? I said, Garrett, the problem with this community is criminals, bad people, victimize the immigrant community because they're afraid to call 911. And I bring that up because I sympathize for the people you're describing in Texas. And I think it's important to denote that for the last nine years, we've operated under this right that everyone has a fundamental right to be safe. And I still think that's true. Can ICE or federal immigration enforcement access Flock cameras? Not through us. So federal immigration enforcement can't access the Flock network through you directly, but it can access the Flock network should a local police officer choose to share their access.
14:24So that would be near impossible. They would be either breaking our contract with them, or they'd probably be breaking a policy internally. But it does happen. We've seen on audit logs ICE being put as the reason for such. Yeah, and some police departments have standing agreements with federal law enforcement to work together. And in that case, as long as it's a lawful investigation, we're not going to tell cities what laws they should or should not enforce. And in the U.S., there are a lot of different local law enforcement agencies. You know, it's a really interesting phenomenon in America. There's 18 ,000 police departments.
15:06And so it used to be before Flock that if I stole a car in one city and drove to the next, I did not exist. So in the Flock world, some of our customers, very much against immigration enforcement. And they might want to still solve homicides with a city next door that wants to support immigration enforcement. And so we built these controls so they can say, look, on homicides, on stolen cars, on missing peoples, we want to work together. But on these types of crimes, we disagree on the societal benefit of that law. And it might sound confusing because it is, because there's 18 ,000 cities and we support, you know, 7 ,000 of them.
15:41In terms of the number of cameras, how many do you have in the U.S. ballpark? You know, we are a leading provider, but by no means the only provider in the country. But can you give me numbers? We don't typically report on like specific numbers. Okay. Okay. I saw sort of 100 ,000 approximately. Is that like ballpark? I think it's reasonable. Last year, we helped solve about a million crimes. over 10 ,000 missing people. And what matters to us is it becomes so difficult to commit a crime that people choose not to. And so you're going to do that through kind of a large surveillance network? I wouldn't call it that.
16:17So you don't like the word surveillance, but I saw your patents. There are three different patents that say surveillance. So you are a surveillance company. I still wouldn't choose those words. There is a conception with the word surveillance of big brother of someone hiding behind a screen secretly watching you. And that's not what we do, because we have transparency, right? Our cameras are in public spaces. Our products have incredible guardrails built into them. These sorts of reassurances haven't stopped the anti-FLOC backlash, and it's escalated further than vandalism. A Houston man is facing federal charges in Georgia for allegedly leaving a message on Flock's voicemail threatening to kill its employees, along with anti-Semitic abuse.
17:06Threats of violence, it's just, whether it's based off of your religion, whether it's based off of your race, like, where you work, to me it's just, it's horrible.
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18:07Now, those big dogs didn't want to talk to me, but I'm on my way to meet Chief Ray Schultz of the Memorial Villages Police Department on the northwest corner of Houston. People live here for the quality of life. Most of the properties are at least a half an acre, if not larger. We're an independent group of cities that were created back in the 1970s and basically the city of Houston has now grown all the way around us. So we're a city within another city. Some Memorial Village's residents are celebrities or sports stars. It's regularly ranked as one of the safest communities in the U.S. And it was one of Flock's early adopters.
18:52We started off in 2019 with one single camera because I had to do a proof of concept. Within days, we had a burglary occur. And the perpetrator had entered in through a doggy door in the back of the house. A receipt must have fallen out of one of their pockets when they were crawling through the door. The receipt was from about an hour prior to the burglary occurring at a fast food restaurant. So we looked at the number of vehicles that had gone through the ALPR. We went up to the restaurant. We pulled their CCTV video footage. And guess what we found? One vehicle that was in that parking lot at the same time that the items were purchased was the same vehicle that drove by our ALPR that's on the street to where the burglary occurred.
19:43How much more difficult would that investigation have been without that ALPR camera on that road? Probably impossible. Ray says the community welcomed this technology, and seven years later, his police department owns 34 of these cameras. He's been surprised to see the nationwide backlash now. Well, first of all, the cameras don't follow anybody. There's nobody sitting there watching the ALPR cameras, and I can use it myself as an example. We read 4.2 million license plates last month. There's nobody watching those license plates. Every search that we do, it has to be for a reason, and you still have to do your homework.
20:26All it tells us is that this license plate was at this location at this date and time. But I want to know who that plate belongs to. Now I have to go into a different database. That is not in the Flock system at all. But there are, I mean, Flock Nova is one of their kind of newer platforms. And it's a software that overlays reads from its cameras with public information, such as public social media, credit histories, advertising IDs. That, I think, is one of the concerns, that if an agency subscribes to that in addition to having the cameras, then it can kind of make broader connections about the individual's driving.
21:10It can. So law enforcement, we have a lot of databases that we use to help solve crime. The thing is, is right now you have to log into each one of those, which you can do. It's approved, they've been vetted and everything else. You can log in each one of those and get that information. Systems like Nova, what it does is it will check the databases that you have access to that's part of your operating procedures and tell you if there's any commonality. Flock is in the headlines, and so its technologies are receiving huge scrutiny. But it's not the only player. Harris County uses a similar piece of software from a different company, Sound Thinking, which describes it as a Google-style search engine for law enforcement.
22:02Chief Schultz doesn't use NOVA, and he also doesn't share his flock data with federal immigration agencies. I don't think it's good for local law enforcement, because we are that very first line between the community and public safety, and we need to keep that trust in place. Every profession, there's bad actors. Law enforcement has their own as well. I've seen that in my 44 years. We have to hold those people accountable. But don't throw out a tool that is valuable, that can help recover a missing child.
22:42Unfortunately, some of these quests that are going on right now to get law enforcement not to use some of these tools, that's just another way to defund law enforcement. Some of the anti-surveillance backlash comes from the left, including police abolitionist campaigners. But there's a remarkable bipartisan element to this story. On the right, some conservatives see America's massive surveillance network as an attack on their freedom. A Republican congressman, Keith Self from Texas, has recently proposed the so-called Privacy Act, which would require federal agencies to obtain a warrant before accessing data collected by surveillance systems like Flock.
23:26This is a surveillance state that Americans just don't like. Congressman Self isn't the only one using the democratic process to take on surveillance.
23:38In the city of San Marcos, about three hours west of Houston, I meet 29-year-old City Council member Amanda Rodriguez. I was blessed to be elected in November of 2024. Amanda says the police union campaigned against her. I will be honest, I very much align myself with police in prison abolition. One of Amanda's first moves was to challenge a proposal to more than double the city's flock deployment, from 14 automatic licence plate readers to 33. Mind you, we're a town of, the last census was 67 ,000. I think we're 50 square miles. And, you know, you do the math, that's a large net. You've got a background in police abolition work.
24:22Is there an argument that you wouldn't accept any technologies that would support law enforcement? You know, some would call you a radical. Many people call me a radical. I'll say that already. I would argue, despite my personal opinions, when I get on this body, I have to be pragmatic. And I do have to represent people. I think in a digital age that we live in today, as policing continues to exist as an institution, to think that there is not going to be some incorporation of tech within that institution, I would be quite ignorant, right? After several months of debates and policy changes, not only did the proposed expansion fall through, but the council let the whole flock contract end.
25:10OK, so the city no longer has a contract with flock. So that means there are no flock cameras in San Marcos at all now? There are none on city property. There are still cameras here. And this is the part of the story that's often missed. It's not only public bodies, agencies subject to democratic oversight. that have access to surveillance technologies. It's private companies too. Amanda takes me to a nearby housing block to see some of the ALPRs that are still up in San Marcos. So we're walking up to one of the apartments here. It's where lower income housing tax credit property, so more affordable units.
25:51You'll see that there's only one way in, one way out. And the reason that's important is right as you turn in, there are two cameras facing in and out and both right now have been spray painted with red spray paint blocking their ability to scan license plates this is really stark like right there's massive splatters of red paint just over the over the camera lens on both of them i was going to ask do people know that there are still flock cameras here despite the city ending its contract but evidently they do because it has been spray-painted. They do, but there is still a misconception that these cameras should be subject to the decision that the city made.
26:33And the misconception does cause a bit of outrage by people. And unlike city-owned devices, Amanda has no idea who has access to these cameras. How does it make you feel that this has been vandalised? For me personally, I don't feel a sense of rage. Because it is a crime? Right. The destruction of property is a crime. And while I understand that the destruction of property may garner some anger and disappointment from some people, for me personally, I see it as people who felt the need, the desperate need to take matters into their own hands. We escaped the Texas heat back in City Hall. where Amanda tells me the city might have ended its Flock contract, but some officials think they should still have license plate readers, just made by a different company, Axon.
Read the full transcript
27:28Axon has actually been around longer than Flock. They have a monopoly over the tech and surveillance industry throughout local police departments around the country. It's known for making police body-worn cameras, drones, has its own high-tech data-sharing platforms, and according to internal documents, Axon is offering San Marcos a bundle deal to get some of this thrown in if they buy license plate readers. The net that I was talking about earlier, that I was concerned about more than doubling the amount of cameras we had via Flock, if you would ask me the size of that net cast versus should we adopt a company like Axon, it's not comparable.
28:09So you're more concerned about if the city signs a contract with Axon for license plate readers? Absolutely, absolutely. Because the thing is, you're just adding cameras to an already large network that we have. Axon didn't respond to requests for comment.
28:26Across the United States, people are tuning in to the big surveillance systems that have grown around them. They're tracking flock cameras, drone contracts and facial recognition software, as well as the data centres and infrastructure that props up this modern digital era. The distinctive black flock camera poles people see popping up in their neighbourhoods are a visual representation of the state, of AI, of the influence tech has over their lives. And while some see the value in these tools, others are emphatically saying no.
29:09Crossing Continents was presented and produced by me, Ellie House. The editor was Penny Murphy. The sound mix was by Neil Churchill. And the production coordinator was Gemma Ashman. The murder of Tupac Shakur has generated nearly 30 years of rumours, conspiracy theories and unanswered questions. Now the mythology is about to meet the courtroom as the trial gets underway and Nevada prosecutors try and solve the mystery of who killed Tupac. I'm Manushka Matandadawity and for the BBC's Fame Under Fire podcast, I'll be inside the courtroom every day and I'm bringing you with me. What really happened on the Las Vegas Strip that night in 1996?
29:46It's time to separate fact from fiction. Join me for Fame Under Fire, the two-part murder trial, the testimony, the arguments, the moments that matter, and all the legal analysis. To get all the updates, listen and subscribe on BBC Sounds or wherever you get your podcasts so you never miss an episode.
30:08Hello, Greg Jenner here. I'm the host of You're Dead to Me, the BBC comedy show that takes history seriously. Every episode, I pair up a top historian with a fantastic comedian, and we have a lovely, funny, fascinating chat about a different subject from world history. And in this new series, we're beginning with an epic voyage through the story of Homer, the Iliad, and the Odyssey. And that's with Kyle Smith-Bino joining us. And then we'll be learning about Francis Galton and the racist, discredited pseudoscience of eugenics with Desiree Birch. We'll meet many medieval saints in their bone boxes with Rachel Parrott.
30:42So if that sounds like your sort of thing, listen to You're Dead to Me wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. Bye.
From the publisher
AI cameras. Drones. Facial recognition. Sound detection. Flock.
The United States is monitored through a growing, high-tech, and increasingly interconnected surveillance network. The police say this is all for public safety - to prevent crime and assist investigations. Critics think it’s an invasion of privacy, open to misuse, and a sneaky tool aiding ICE in President Trump’s deportation drive.
One company is bearing the brunt of the backlash: Flock Safety. Its network of AI-powered licence plate readers spans over 7000 communities, generating 20 billion vehicle scans a month. In some cities - like Houston, Texas - which has over 60 different law enforcement agencies, the full extent of the system is unclear. Many of these authorities won’t say publicly how many Flock devices they have.
Vigilantes have been cutting down licence plate readers. Social media is full of tips on how to obstruct or disable the cameras. City halls across America are debating their Flock contracts. Meanwhile Flock employees are facing threats to their own safety.
Ellie House is in Houston, Texas, investigating the surveillance network authorities want to keep quiet. She sees how Flock has been used by police to fight crime, and gets inside the anti-surveillance ‘techlash’. And she sits down with Flock CEO Garrett Langley in his Atlanta HQ.
Presented and produced by Ellie House. Edited by Penny Murphy. Sound mix by Neil Churchill. The Production Coordinator was Gemma Ashman.
