The Decisive Moment with Simon Kim

0:01Simon Kim is the founder and CEO of Gracious Hospitality Management. His universe includes Code Korean Steakhouse, now in New York, Miami, Las Vegas, Singapore, and more recently, Cocodac, which is known for its amazing Korean fried chicken. Simon, welcome to The Decisive Moment. Thank you, Alex. Thanks so much for having me. I've been a huge fan of the fam and what you guys do, so it's a deep pleasure and honor to be here with you. Thank you. Really happy to have you here. Simon, you could have done and focused on a lot of things. Why Korean fried chicken? So honestly, after Coat, Coat was a big success.

0:42And a lot of my business partners and my operating partners, they were like, when I told them I wanted to do fried chicken, they were like, don't do it. Coat can be next noble, right? We can keep opening Coat brand. Let's not put anything under the distraction into the mix. But I'm a creative. I love creating more than operating, say. So I wanted to do something after a coat. So I thought about what can I do. And I wanted something a little more scalable. So there are three options. Because I'm American, even though I'm from Korea, I have a dual heritage, which makes it more American than anything else, right?

1:21I'm American. So as an American, what can I do now that I've kind of really made my way into the mainstream? I think a few things were important. Scalability. I wanted to scale this business, the second business, more so than I can do with Coats, Korean Steakhouse. So I thought about three items. So what's American and that's scalable? There's only three things. It's hamburgers, fried chicken, and even though it's Italian, it's American pizza, right? So that's three things. But more importantly, when I choose, I got to find an authentic voice, authentic connection to the product, if you will. Now, Korea, before 1950s, which is a Korean War, they didn't eat fried chicken at all.

2:03They were boiling chicken. They were making soups. Doesn't sound all that appealing in American palate. But it was during Korean War, U.S., like black soldiers, when they were stationed to Korea, they wanted something to eat and boiled chicken wasn't cutting it. So they fried chicken. And the Koreans were like, oh, my goodness, this is so delicious. And fast forward to today, Seoul has the largest amount of number of Korean fried chicken, like fried chicken restaurant per capita in the world. So it's a pretty cool thing. Like Americans went and planted fried chicken to Korea. Korea cultivated into a phenomena.

2:45As a Korean American, I bring that sort of a developed thing back to America with caviar and largest champagne list in America. that would be a fun idea. I love that. I love how you're very clear on your directions as well. Wow, super inspiring. Thank you. So let's go back to your story. You arrived on Long Island at age 13, right? You were speaking no English, not exposed to culture outside of Korea. Do you remember the first time you walked into an American steakhouse? Of course, vividly. I think it was Peter Luger and Little Neck. so i love steak steak is my thing so in korea my dad who loved food would take us to korean barbecue restaurants because that's korean steakhouse right in korea there's higher end barbecues where you know fancy places where that that would take you and it had this unique vibe you know korean barbecue has this unique conviviality you know fine dining restaurants my dad was a big introvert so he was a big foodie he didn't take me to a ballpark he He didn't take me to hiking, beaches.

3:55He took me to fine dining restaurants. So I remember those moments vividly. But he would take me to Korean barbecue restaurants once in a while to eat meat. And I loved that, right? It was just so much fun. You know, people were drinking, people were getting loud, people were rambunctious. So as a child, I felt like I really associated with the vibes of Korean barbecue restaurants. And when I came to America and went into Peter Luger for the first time, I felt the similar vibes. You know, Peter Luger is one of the greatest steakhouses and is really popular. Something in common was people are having a great time.

4:30You know, it wasn't very pretentious. And I think I fell in deeply into that deep familiarity of eating beef and truly enjoying each other's company in non-pretentious way. But the uniqueness American steakhouse where, you know, you have a two-inch thick porterhouse dozed in butter and that smell of dry-aged meat, like magnum bottles of wine flowing, that almost masculinity, American kind of bravado mixed with that German steakhouse feel, I feel like it had a very vivid and distinct imprint on me. You mentioned your father that was bringing you to Korean barbecue. and the whole spirit of the family was coming out alive at that time.

5:17Would you say that Coat in some way is a restaurant that you built as a tribute to your father and to your family? I think so. Subconsciously. I never really said I want to build that. But I think subconsciously, I am my father's son, right? So all I really wanted to do is please my dad, you know, get his approval, if you will. And he was a very critical person, you know, because he was so critical, especially with food. And my mother - He had a restaurant, no? My mother had a restaurant. Okay. My dad helped open that restaurant financially. But it was more my mother's restaurant. My dad is one of, he's more of a critic than a doer, if you will.

5:55He likes to kind of critic. He would have been a great, he might be a Michelin inspector for all I know because he's really, he lives that, right? He reads about things. He travels to experience things. And I think I grew up thinking that my dad was kind of like a Michelin inspector. And my mother was a chef who wants to please the palate of a Michelin inspector. So I think that's been kind of the story of my life. And when I built my Korean barbecue, my dad never really liked Korean barbecue. He liked things a little more subdued, something that connects with a little more introvert vibes, which Korean barbecue often wasn't.

6:32When I had a vision to open up a Korean steakhouse for the first time, because before that it was Korean barbecue, We made a very conscious and strategic and focused decision to develop that into Korean steakhouse. I wanted to add those elements that my dad would appreciate. Your mother opened that restaurant. You worked there when you were younger. As a teenager, you were a bartender, server, busboy. In a sense, you were self-trained watching your mother build something from nothing, right? What was the biggest lesson you learned from this? So when I first started working there was as a busboy.

7:09I was 16 years old, riding a Long Island Railroad on weekends to help mom open a restaurant. And I remember I was a teenager, but it was mid-90s in Tribeca. I knew how cool Tribeca was. It was pre-gentrification. Tribeca was the cool place to be. And I was really concerned. How is my middle-aged mom going to open a restaurant in Tribeca? I mean, it was not the busiest street either. I think I had this kind of suspicion or skepticism and doubt that this will not work. And when we opened and my mom became the chef, she owned it and she started really like cooking and she opened the restaurant and it was very successful.

7:54Celebrities were there. And as a teenager, this doubt and suspicion and skepticism turn into validation and confirmation and confidence. I think that kind of transition, if you will, I think was the biggest lesson learned. So there I learned that if you build it with great intention and real dedication, people will come. So yeah, I think that's the positivity, that optimism as an entrepreneur, that wishful, you know, that optimism, I think is the biggest thing that was instilled while I was there. Passion and work pays off, right? Yes. When you are courageous and we're passionate, and also most importantly, I think later on, what I realized is passion is not good enough because passion burns, but passion that doesn't burn sustainably and slowly enough to last is more of a short stint.

8:55As you know, we have a concept that we call the decisive moment. When you understood that something was your calling in life, that that was your purpose to make and to lead forward, what would you say that moment was for you? decisive moment. I think it was in my mid-20s. That teenage years, I was too young to really think about anything, you know, or make decision for myself. I was just learning and observing like a sponge. It was when I went to actually Las Vegas. I was going to school in New York City. I was going to Purdue College to study finance. Realized finance was not my calling. So I transfer out to las vegas to pursue hotel school in unlv so college there yes i got a job at one of the large casino hotels there i worked as a front desk agent for a few years one day one of the executives of fmb was coming in and out of the casino he knew me because uh there's one thing that i do really really well which is my secret power is uh saying hello i always say hello to everyone you know i just say hello because um i think it's just learned that habit and i think that's one of the strongest it goes a long way yeah it really goes a long way uh being able to plant a positive greeting to people in uh continuous and and prolonged way i think it really instills a great um it's also respect for every position right exactly yeah and one day executive came from uh fmb and asked me if i wanted to run a japanese restaurant he's like I need a person.

10:32He seems like a nice guy. Why don't we ask him for it? And I said, yes. And I studied at the Japanese fine dining as a system manager. And first day, I knew. I think I just knew. It was truly felt like a fish that was living on the land finally jumped into an ocean. You know, I felt so comfortable being able to sell food that brings delight, sake, wine. It was about delight. And I think that's when I knew my calling, as much as I enjoyed people, checking people in and dealing with issues of, you know, because Front Desk deals with every single issue you can imagine. But when I went into FNB and I was talking about, you know, languages of gastronomy or languages of delight.

11:24Like this sake is dry and this is how it can delight you. You know, the difference between otoro and chutoro and the warmth of a warm tea that's going to open your palate or cleanse your palate or, you know, pickled ginger. You know, when we're talking about these sort of delightful vocabularies, I think my eyes lit up and I was very good at it. And I feel like that desire to please and desire to speak the languages of delight, I think it's kind of was imprinted in my DNA without me knowing. So later on, you move back to New York, right? And open your first restaurant and then Coat. So at Coat, which I have to tell you, it's really one of our favorite restaurants in New York with my wife.

12:06So every chance we can find a reservation, we go. Absolutely love it. So congratulations and thank you for bringing that to our lives. but there you have the butcher's feast, right? Which is the store of the menu. It has great value. The quality is amazing that you're getting. And that was born at a time where you were underfunded and a bit in need, right? Do you think some of the best ideas come out of hard times? Absolutely. Alex, first of all, thank you very much. Next time you go to code, you can ask for Simon's Choice. I have a cool menu that I get, so you should ask for that. Noted. Yes.

12:48So speaking of hardship and extracting and that pressure and heat, yeah, definitely the brightest and the largest diamonds are made in the biggest pressure and the highest of the temperature. So I definitely do believe the hardship that I faced while giving birth to coat has given its everything, right? I think everything right now, we're in a very fortunate position. We just recently opened Las Vegas. We're opening in 550 Madison. Miami has been a great success. Singapore is great. New York. So Coat has been a great success. But truly, I believe we're continuously riding the coattails of its inception.

13:29That pressure honestly could have broken anyone, if you will. But I leaned in. And I think that really allowed us to not only come up with the great ideas, But most importantly, gave me that muscle. And finally, we opened the door and I saw just how that can amount. That pressure, that headwind, all of a sudden, like with a flip of switch, turns into a tailwind and it just takes you to far beyond than you ever dreamt of. And I felt like that has prepared me. That muscle that I developed during that time. I'll take it for life I have a question for you you spend a whole day in a restaurant right?

14:17what do you make when you go home? I love cooking Korean food mostly gai bichim is my favorite I don't get to really cook as much as I would like to what is it? gai bichim is short rib braised in it's kind of like a beef bourguignon but done with a sweet soy sauce it's like short rib large radishes, carrots. I like to use candy chestnuts that are canned because you get the burst of sweetness. So it means comfort. My mom used to make such a great version of this. For me, I'm very fortunate. I get to go to all over the world eating really amazing oat cuisines and what have you. So when I'm at home, I like comfort.

14:58I feel like food is a great vehicle to put love and comfort and good intentions. So I like to keep things simple. So galbi-jim, rice, kimchi, maybe fried eggs for good measure. Yeah, kimchi is important. Like a couple of types, like scallion kimchi is really nice. Napa cabbage, maybe a little, we call it chonggak kimchi, which is a little radish kimchi, if you will, that adds nice crunch to it. I think that's my ideal meal. Okay, let's do something. I'll try. I'll send you a picture. Tell me if it should look like that. Okay. Perfect. You worked after school, right? And the restaurant, the Japanese restaurant.

15:40But after that, you worked with Jean-Georges or Thomas Keller. They have very different philosophy and hospitality, right? What did you take from each for you today? common denominator that i learned um is both of them have changed um american gastronomy forever right i feel like there's a pre the big fives right i think eric hubert sean george daniel thomas keller right big four yeah common denominator is how passionate they are about what they do and how much they take joy in what they do and how uh contagious that joy and passion is to the organization. I think I learned that. I was able to feel that firsthand.

16:23But if I had to kind of think about the difference that I learned from them is Sean George is more whimsical and magical. He's a little more ethereal, if you will. Thomas Keller, what I learned is just that commitment to excellence. It's not a whimsical thing for him. I think him and his company is just dedicated. You know, there's a pure focus to this and there's a work ethic to this. There's discipline to this. Excellence is a state that you practice day in, day out and you achieve. You know, I think I learned that work ethics and commitment and responsibilities, accountabilities and certain level of adultness, if you will.

17:08You know, you're responsible for your own passions. I see a bit of these two and of what you said earlier. Yeah, so I'm immensely grateful for two of my mentors. And Thomas Keller is one of my investors, and I'm so grateful to have him as a partner as well. So without those two, definitely I would not be speaking to you right now. In Korean culture, there is something called the concept of Shoshim, which is the beginner's heart, which is the humility and hunger of someone who has nothing to lose. How do you hold on to that Choshim when you're building an empire? Choshim, it literally translates to beginning heart, if you will.

17:49The heart that you had during the time of beginning, when everything was joyful. Even the worst thing, it was like, it was joyful. Every interaction, every date, every touch feels so special, the positive and the negative. I think that feeling is the most important to really capture. When I think about restaurants, hot restaurants especially, there's so many hot restaurants. Many of them, we don't know where they go. You know, where do hot restaurants go? Because they do disappear. I thought about that. And I thought about interesting concepts. So hot restaurants, what creates heat? Alex, work with me.

18:24What creates heat? Friction. Yes. So to me, friction in restaurants is when people are coming in, they're talking about you. Their wait list and what people are walking in. The more interaction you have, like you're creating heat, hands become hot. Everybody's talking about you. And we're very fortunate eight years in where, you know, Coat is a still hot restaurant. But if you think about it, it makes sense, right? What happens when things get too hot? You know, you elevate and like hot balloon, you kind of disappear. So it is so important as a restaurant, founder of restaurants and upper management ownership as a managers and staff.

19:01Some of the things that we talk about at pre-shift is, so if the hot air balloon goes and disappears into thin air, meanwhile, also there's another law, which is law of gravity, which water flows from top to bottom. So no matter what, we, the service provider, must position ourselves below our customers. Then through gravity, customers' love and their attention and their visit will naturally trickle downwards to where we are. So while it may sound oxymoron, the harder we become, the more effort that we need to make ourselves to lower ourselves. it's hold on to dear life so you don't disappear into the thin air I think that's kind of how we think about it I love what you're saying I'm going to keep listening to this episode because it's again very inspiring and you really have your North Star in you so thank you great to hear and thanks again for a reminder of Choshin Simon I have one last question that I think is very important to mention is if you could go back to that 13-year-old in Long Island, what would you wish you could tell him?

20:19Honestly, I don't think I'll tell him anything. You know, I'll probably just pay for his dinner at Peter Luger's. So he can have extra steaks without knowing why am I getting this extra steak, you know? Make your own mistakes. Yeah, you're here for the ride. I think so. Honestly, I think I made so many mistakes in my life, but the learnings from those mistakes was the most formative lessons that I've learned. So I feel like, no, don't touch it, you know? Thank you for this opportunity. It really means a lot, and this was one of the most impactful interviews I've ever had.