The Creative Angles Powering 9-Figure Brands

21:54Olly:well I think that was a lot of some good stuff there I want to get on to the controversy we've got quite a bit of controversy to cover

22:01Loukas:I also just wanted to say people might be shocked that we haven't discussed AR ads or VO3 or anything like that but we're going to do an episode just on that because I'm still we're still very much experimenting with that and there's loads to share there but I think

22:20Olly:it deserves its own episode yeah I think once we get a bit further down the line in terms of like getting meaningful spend through them I think is the key we're a bit early in that process although i have loved the gorilla videos on tiktok just wasted me just there's always sending each other

22:37Loukas:just wasted so much time watching those stupid grillers so funny yeah so david protein i'll be interested to get your take on this so peter rahal who's co was the co-founder of rx bar absolute ridiculous operator really like co-launched um that protein company in 2013 they sold it to kellogg's in 2017 for 600 million i think he made about 300 mil out of that um launched david protein which i think most people will have heard of um if not it's a protein bar

23:13Olly:with like perfect macros basically to summarize it with with quite like incredibly simple branding like branding where if if you didn't know it was a massive business you probably wouldn't think it was just from face value right yeah it's so simple um but it's just so focused on like the nutritional content which i guess is very in line with sort of market and general wellness trends right now um but yeah they've blown up they blew up last year yeah i mean they're you could do an

23:42Loukas:episode on it in itself but like their launch strategy was ridiculously good um i think they had over a hundred thousand on the wait list before he had even launched um gamified it all didn't they with incentives exactly but yeah i mean in their first year um they're well they're pacing for 140 mil and revenue with and they're in over 3 000 stores already which is just ridiculous so bonkers in america retail in america is just so so crazy just the economy's a scale it's yeah it's a joke um but yeah they they've recently also closed a 75 mil series a um i think in total they've had around 85 mil of investment that now values the company at over 725 mil in less than 12

24:30Olly:months a fucking cpg brand so crazy um and yeah you you put me onto this the the strategic

24:39Loukas:acquisition that they've done so what was that you love it i love it i think well it's just it's

24:44Olly:it's smart business isn't it it is it's like go on you give give the details first yeah so

24:49Loukas:So David Protein recently acquired Epigree, I think is how you pronounce it. They are the sole producer of something called EPG, which is a low calorie fat substitute, which essentially will bring, is able to reduce the calories within fat. It allows them to have the macro profile that they do. And it also allows a lot of other brands to have the macro profile that they do. So they can say zero, 0 % fat, that reduces the calories, et cetera. Brands like Own Your Hunger, Lighten Up Foods, Defiant Foods, you know, all use them as well as many, many others. They acquired this brand and that EPG is patented.

25:34Loukas:So it meant that as soon as they acquired the brand, as soon as they acquired Apogee, all of these brands were cut off and they essentially couldn't use that anymore within their ingredients. So they've filed a lawsuit in New York Federal Court against David Protein. And they're almost saying that there's like this idea of, you know, they're monopolizing the industry to some degree. There's been a lot of back and forth online, whether it's immoral. Some people agree with it. Some people don't. And actually, initially, I think it's gone to court and the judge has denied a request for immediate restraining order to force David Protein to resume supply of EPG.

26:34Loukas:So what are your thoughts?

26:37Olly:I think it's, I feel like it's just really good strategy, right? like it's like it's it's like everyone's playing they're playing chess and everyone else is playing checkers kind of vibe um yeah it's like i think that whole that that trend of like vertical integration of supply chain is like the big competitive advantage for any brand that does it like if we look at a lot of our best brands are the ones that have the greatest other brands that have the greatest results or fastest growth a lot of the time they have greater control over the supply of their products or the closest close to the point of of origin and they're able to drive better efficiencies or out-compete people on price gross margin be more reactive etc so i think it's very in line with that trend of what makes a great the best brands right now um and i think it's no different to to to many patients really like it it's they've just approached it in a different way um ethically like whether it's having a negative impact on the consumer i guess isn't it's something to consider like less choice forcing other businesses out the market like that is a a negative but from like a pure business perspective it's like a great move yeah i think

28:02Loukas:that's a you know i think because pro david protein is on such a global stage now it's being frowned upon but this happens every day in business you know a lot of brands that that becomes their unique lever doesn't it the fact that no one else can do what they're doing because they've patented it that's that is people make a living off finding holes that you know in areas that haven't been patented and and um submitting a pattern against it so like it's that that is the game in many ways but i think yeah it's more like like you say from a consumer standpoint that i think is people are kicking off because i saw one comment on their on their instagram which was like i love david protein i i have it every day but then these other brands are also a massive part

28:57Olly:of my diet and what what you know i consume and now i can't use them yeah i think a lot of like when thinking about outcomes for for the consumer when talking about consumers are collective i think one of the biggest like positives is always choice like the ability to have greater choice of goods or services um and i think if you're restricting that there's an argument that is negative from that perspective but they just need to find a way around it right they need if they're able to. I don't know if that is possible. Maybe that's very difficult.

29:33Loukas:It feels like it makes sense if it was competitor protein bars. Yeah. That I understand. But I think some of the products fall into like almost other... Other categories. Categories, which, yeah. But I agree.

29:49Olly:It is dog-eat-dog in business and it is part of the game, isn't it? Probably made their business infinitely more valuable overnight almost.

29:57Loukas:by just removing a lot of the competition from the market. It'd be interesting to see how many customers they've lost. I know a lot of people were kicking off about it saying they're completely boycotting the brand now after that, but I think it's one of those. It will pass, won't it, very quickly. They'll forget about that.

30:14Olly:People have short memories, right? I think that'll... Yeah, I think the product's good enough, so I don't think it will have had a meaningful impact on their profit or revenue, but we'll see. Another bit of controversy, which only came out yesterday, is the creatine scandal 2.0. Oh, God. I thought we were done with that.

30:37Loukas:James is a savage. He's such a savage. Do you want to give the context from the original context and then what was released?

30:44Olly:James Smith originally came out with a video going after one specific creatine gummies company for the content of their products. um and again i don't i don't feel like there was any like there's an element of like probably should have done the due diligence but i don't think that company were maliciously intentionally selling creating gummies with nothing in there we've met the founder he's a nice guy yeah he

31:10Loukas:means he means well and i i don't think it was intentional no and they've just relaunched

31:15Olly:actually with a product that looks much better properly tested and i hope i hope the relaunch has gone really well but just poor timing in terms of james coming out with this video where he's kind of just gone through the whole creatine gummies category and tested almost like probably i think it was another eight brands and for their creatine content and i think it was like five or six had like negligible traces of creatine and they were just basically selling sweets for 60 60 dollars and there was like two creatine gummy brands that were like close to being the correct measure and i guess i just i think that's like pouring that like isolated example but also just raises so many questions about like the whole like supplement industry which is obviously booming right now it's like do you really know what you're consuming are these factories and manufacturers actually creating what they say they are how much third-party testing like regulated third-party testing is being done and yeah just like where does that like rabbit hole end in terms of products just not being what they say on the tin which is yeah it's it's so true it really makes you think

32:32Loukas:um and i mean some of the examples that he gave there was that one amazon product that it was doing in the last 30 days it had done 250k in revenue just through amazon and it was

32:45Olly:literally had no traces of creatine in it that every single one he pulled up on amazon had nothing in it was like yeah over 100k of mrr a month just selling nothing to people so again i don't want to bash on creatine brands i don't think that's the point we're trying to make i just think it's that's the first video that i've ever seen of anyone doing that level of depth of research and it i i just wonder if that if that's something that will start to occur more if that will just be it would be good if that was a normalized behavior for supplement brands to have to do testing because you because a lot of a lot of there's a new longevity brand new mushroom coffee brand popping up every single day where they're probably a lot of it might be white label products or if they've done like sauce from china it's like how much like testing is going on in that process before you just take something to market and sell it to people to consume on a

33:37Loukas:daily basis yeah i think it's definitely this inflection point of creating more transparency around the industry because it's going to have to be i think what he's done there in terms of just putting creating gummies on spotlight that's just one element of it really but i think what it's going to do is actually make because that that everyone would have seen that i think it's going to make brands really think about you know we do need to to be really intentional about the

34:04Olly:ingredients and ensure that it's accurate yeah i think that's the positive that hopefully that's a trend that can hopefully be kicked off um because like the whole health and wellness space on on dtc like in places you can just see it being like imagine if you literally just took like 100 brands did that i'd be surprised if like more than 50 were perfectly accurate i think you're

34:26Loukas:i think you could that rule is likely going to apply to a lot of different gummies in in other in other supplements because i think gummies is you're trying to do a very difficult thing there which is get the same the the same dosage through a small gummy which is very difficult to do whilst making it taste nice and makes it make it taste like an actual sweet and it's trying to make them

34:55Olly:homogenous like every single one in a pack be the same which i imagine is a challenge as well um not that i know much about manufacturing gummies um but i just wanted to comment it just made me think about the health and wellness policy change on facebook recently which has been rolling out fairly aggressively um i can only assume off like backlash from that facebook have received for from companies like hymns and people and big brands like that in america selling against like medical like medical claims that would require like a prescription or a doctor etc like online pharmacies basically which yeah which i think in the u.s is a bit of the wild west but that rollout across i just think it's been really difficult and poor from from meta it's had a massive impact on brands but what what it is is basically you can have if you're operating and prescribed um in categories that are labeled like prescription medicines or like you have a portal that you have to log into for the customers have to log into to interact with your business um you you can get your events limited so basically you could get no conversion data back for purchase events through this through the conversion api or or the pixel it'd just be completely removed um so you just couldn't optimize for purchase basically overnight but they've rolled it out just like on so aggressively across so many supplement brands that just do not fall into that category and you just can't get it rolled back and the impact on some results you can't you can get it rolled back sorry but it just takes ages and there's no like transparency around why

36:35Loukas:you've been flagged how to remove it so ash was talking about it with me on the the pod we did um they their ad account was taken down multiple times for suggest suggesting they'd done things they hadn't done and then it was a mistake and it you know a week later they the the ad account

36:55Olly:came back but like that's that's damaging isn't it hugely damaging it's all it's that lack of transparency that i just think they could do better like why is it being flagged and then just a better process because i've come across like a couple i spoke to a brand in america that were working that were selling like female vaginal products but it was like nowhere near prescription medical but they were just they've just been completely blanket flagged and it had a massive like transformational impact on performance in like a week i just think that's just an interesting just difficult for many runs to manage right now.

37:28Loukas:I know Mark Zuckerberg spoke about it on his episode with Joe Rogan. Not in that sense. It was more hate speech in the sense of hate speech and how as you, the more AI you use to identify these flags and take accounts down, you're going to get more of them. More false flags. More false flags, but also you're going to get more of the actual legitimate flags. But then obviously the more you bring that down, you're going to get less and miss the ones that are actually doing it. But then actually you're, you know, less people are going to be affected. So it's almost like that balancing act of how far you push it to make sure that you're getting the people that actually deserve to be taken down from it.

38:19Loukas:But he was talking about that in the form of hate speech

38:22Olly:and you know things like that makes sense i know he's rolled back a lot of policy there didn't he after the election like his whole take on mediating the platform changed but yeah i just still think first he's openly said it that he doesn't spend any time on the ad products but for such a big company where all the revenue comes through advertising it's so frustrating that's ridiculous it's just so frustrating when they do such an ignorant comment like the amount of the billions in revenue they make a year from that yeah it's crazy um switching away from meta towards tiktok i wanted to just talk about a couple of um just tiktok shop trends and i still think every brand on meta should every brand who's like solely advertising on method maybe you're not active on tiktok shop but you should be using it for creative inspiration go buy callow data go look through the top like 50 stores top creator what videos are driving top revenue gmv the last seven days last 30 days because you'll find some amazing ideas and some of them are so simple but i think over the last couple of weeks i've just been watching the rise of these like two to three really high aov stores on on tiktok shop which kind of book that trend that narrative of like it only works for products under 50 and i do think there's an element of one of them's ninja which obviously ninja just the creamy the fans like their products are just so

39:52Loukas:good yeah so tick tockable aren't they yeah yeah so fall into that category such an amazing business

39:58Olly:um so innovative in terms of the product development and that just make i think that makes everything else easier but the other ones are one was shark uk which is basically a fan business it's these massive portable fans that you can put water in the top of and it like creates a mist but i think they'd gone from like zero to 1.2 2 million in revenue in under 30 days through tiktok shop an aov of like 120 pounds i think the top creator had generated like 150k of revenue in under seven days and it was literally just a video of the guy demonstrating this fan like just how it works pouring it in really simple and the second one was this bram's uk um and they were selling garden furniture and the video that had done really well for them was just this woman who talking to the camera with an overlay of the offer not even with the product just green screen and a sticker of the garden furniture set and the offer that was on and they was selling for like 120 pound a pop it just got they'd both just gone crazy viral and done like over a quarter i think that did nearly a quarter of a million in revenue in under 30 days as well that's just just interesting to see firstly the the simplicity of that content it was the the fan one which we can link below is really really simple demonstration of usps really clear objection handling i think the timing of that obviously with the with the summer months and the heat wave i think will have had a massive impact but i just found it fascinating that the simplicity of the execution that had driven just a completely transformed those businesses probably overnight just with a couple of videos it's why i think again most brands should be on tiktok shop even just from a creative learning perspective and i think that whole aov piece it's just fascinating to watch that trend and whether that will continue through the rest of this year

41:54Loukas:higher AOV products yeah that's it's so interesting and I I completely echo that like from the perspective of creative ideation and innovation like I we use it all the time um as I would mention it in a previous episode but we we will use TikTok shop as inspiration we'll pull download the videos upload them into Google AI studios create a paid framework from it and then apply that to paid creative but yeah from from a through that brand lens like even just as a top of funnel player it's just like massive how that can drive search traffic how you can like use that as a testing ground with your affiliates and then apply those best performers to paid or meta you know there's so much that there's so many benefits that that can come from it yeah i think it's it's

42:42Olly:still it still feels under saturated and underutilized i think the strategy that you need to achieve success has changed i think just mass gifting products doesn't work quite as well as it used to do i think it's more like going and building a targeted list of higher gmv creators who are good who are good and and like creating a few different briefs and structures to distribute across them giving a bit more guidance um incentivizing them a bit a bit more but the the track it can have such just such a transformational impact on on revenue and it's such an it's just a platform of discovery so i think it's really good for like upper funnel um angles and like narratives and formats and content structures that you can translate really effectively to meta and just add a little bit more direct response um messaging and into the assets to translate them into like paid ads for that platform yeah have a look on callow data at those brands it's really interesting to see like how fast they're growing um and i was hoping to do like a really deep strategic breakdown of what they're doing differently but like they just weren't really doing that much differently yeah the videos were just so simple yeah so simply executed the offer was strong and the product was good and it was just

43:57Loukas:doing amazingly well yeah i think so much potential there and like you say a lot of the time it is just so so simple i bet that incentive piece is really important you almost have to reverse engineer from the perspective of like what's going to really motivate this the the

44:15Olly:affiliates to to to get to this point yeah you've got obviously like laddered commission based on volume but then i think yeah like giveaways the brands in america are doing it like as standard now where like once you pass like 10 000 in sales you're getting like 500 pound gift card 50k might be a watch it's like there's they're doing well maybe that maybe those numbers don't add up but whatever the structure is i think goalie's one you can find online that did this really aggressively

44:47Loukas:yeah i gave away a condo and a lamborghini was it yeah i think some brands are giving away like

44:54Olly:holidays like taking the top creators to a creator house which is actually really smart i think because then you couldn't do more content in that location um so that is really smart so i've never heard that yeah so i think like just treating it like a little sales team still it's like a little content creator sales team um and we're thinking about that for you i think you can also start to think about how you could try and do that on meta through incentivizing ugc creators that have proven to work on a like a percentage of spend basis or percentage of outcome basis yeah and get them just working to like unlimited briefs or they're just putting the ball in their caught to just drive asset volume for you i think that's something that we're going to see brands do more of over the next 12 months is taking that structure to other channels yeah for sure yeah

45:43Loukas:it's true it's like how can you how can you apply that almost affiliate model to meta just yeah just

45:50Olly:incentive alignment right yeah it's like the perfect alignment of incentives and if you can get it right it's just more thing harder to track is the only thing but that's something you can work

46:01Loukas:around yeah cool should we get into a bit of a an update on business where we're at now what's

46:10Olly:happening oh yeah yeah i think we don't do this enough i don't think no we don't where what we're working on in the agency group right now um so that would be interesting just to pull a few of those pieces pieces out um so yeah i want to start with like data i think like we're upset we obsess about data on a client on a client level and i think we've reached the point in our business where we realized that we were we were making decisions too much on like anecdotal information rather than like hard facts whether that was like turnaround times on assets capacity in places cost to create assets um so i think we're doing a huge piece on like our own data layer and like really getting like end-to-end data infrastructure set up on on our processes our delivery process our um production process our editing process which i think will will massively help us then optimize and produce better outcomes moving forward yeah yeah i think it's it's just context

47:17Loukas:isn't it like really building that context window so you you know there's there's no guessing um i think to get past that like 10 mil arr point it becomes way more strategic um and i think one thing maybe we've just done too much over the last 12 months is grow outwards rather than upwards and maybe overstaffed at times um whereas you can make more calculated decisions if if you've got

47:46Olly:more data to back that yeah it's always like if you ask someone if they're over capacity they're always incentivized to say they're over capacity right it's like just trying to get that factual data um on on some of those some of those pieces which i know is a journey that many service businesses go on a similar stage to we are right now i would definitely recommend

48:09Loukas:timely to those that time track in their teams because we've just moved from harvest which is all manual time tracking and it's just we've been doing it for like two years now and depending on the person you get some that do it really accurately some that don't it's really hard to monitor that at scale um you know when you're looking at 50 60 plus employees um and you know all it takes is a few people to completely skew that data and not be accurate anymore so something like timely which is all done through ai um it tracks time accordingly knows exactly what you're doing when you're doing it in terms of you know if you're on notion on this brand or on creative strategy it will know exactly what to log it as so not only builds efficiency for the individual

48:59Olly:but also gives you more accurate data yeah and i think that's that like allows you to also be really granular because i think if you're time tracking with a manual tool and you like are you're requiring someone to switch what they're doing then asking them to switch every time they change brand every time they change asset like the end got a game for us i think and i think the end game for for brands should also be this is like trying to get down to like a unitary cost per asset by format by brand and then that gives you predictability and then also by winner like cost per winner hit rate um and that gives you just so much predictability on like how much it's going going to cost you to reach the next x goal in new customer revenue because you compare the cost with the hit rate with the spend goal um we're not there yet but that's where we're trying to get to over time because it'll give us predictability on like how we can forecast out our own resource

49:53Loukas:to impact our clients results yeah i just want to shout out lens on that actually because we've just move to lens from motion and um one thing that i love about lens one of its features is around um creative velocity and hit rate so like you can go into every single day and it will show or week you can set the parameters for like what a what deems a creative that failed is scaling and is a winner and based on target ROAS spend thresholds so it will tell you exactly like if you're looking over the last seven days how many ads you launched in the last seven days how much were winners how much were losers how much for scaling um and you can start working towards towards those benchmarks of what at least 80 percent 18 percent hit rate as a target yeah

50:44Olly:i think 20 is like gold standard yeah if you can hit 20 you're an absolute you're absolutely killing it um not many do though no i think i think anything above like 12 12 15 is decent um below that you you need to do work on quality but yeah like 18 issues i think real real 18 to 20 is like absolutely elite level um but yeah i think i don't i don't think i think i think it's surprising how many brands don't have a measure or a kpi or they just track those numbers at the top level across the creative process i'd encourage everybody to get it in place and use lens to do that yeah um you put here the the top spender system do you want to just touch on that quickly

51:26Loukas:yeah i think just like just on that data piece obviously we were looking at more just them from an efficiency team perspective but lee if you're a brand if you're an agency like use that data to your advantage like you need to be building context um you know at all times uh you know the bigger the context window the more data that you know your llm or chat tbc or whatever it is has the the the more accurate um you know output it's going to give you so we have a system now in place that if a creative hits a top eight spender it pulls it into a framework uh which takes every link to the brand out it will you know if we're talking about supplement rather than saying the supplement brand it will just say product in bracket it will build it into a framework with shoot direction on the visual directions column and then it will also have a hypothesis as to why that works now if you've got 300 creatives from the last 90 days that are within that database that all have frameworks and a hypothesis attached to why they worked that is an incredible piece of data that you could use to train you know a chat gpt bot as an example to to create really support you on creating really strong ad creative

52:46Olly:yeah i also think that you do the hard work to set those processes up and they actually become more valuable as ai advances over time it's like do the foundational context layer work first and if you and then you can plug in new tools as they come to market i think that's i think spending time there's really important the same with documenting processes before you build like ai bots like really start with the framework for the process first before you go into an eight and

53:11Loukas:start building oh yeah i'm well aware that this will be redundant soon because it won't be needed but it's in the in the interim it's it's important to be thinking like that

53:23Olly:yeah i do think it will be needed i think there'll be a world where you could probably take one of those frameworks and whip it into vo vo3 and it just produces an ad like event oh within probably the next two years that's probably going to be realistic right yeah just ask it to

53:36Loukas:change put this product in this actor like 100 well gemini and google al studios does video to tech so it will be they'll be able to reverse it soon text video well in terms of like

53:50Olly:taking video inspo and applying that to to vo3 crazy um another area we're obsessing over is like hiring and just rebuilding our like training processes towards like excellence within a couple of really key roles i think growth strategists and creative strategists just with how the industry is moving and the leverage that sits with those two people um i think we've we've been in a position of sort of and we still somewhat are in like reactive hiring it's like we need this person because this person's leaving or this or we've got this these clients coming on board um it's how do we flip that towards like proactive how do we have like how do we always we're always on hiring but like how do we sort of bring people to us more actively um is something that I'm thinking a lot about and I know you guys are working a lot on like internal training processes right now

54:42Loukas:yeah I think the journey we've gone through with creative strategists and I think this can apply to like a lot of roles is really to set the standard for the efficiency the urgency the speed and just yeah that standard that you expect of an individual should be there from day one i think people fall into the trap of hiring others and bring people into the business let's you know they start them really slow watch a few videos they like it takes them three months to actually be at like capacity but what you're doing is it's almost like a false expectation of what the role actually is so we treat it now from day one where they go through these sprints of okay you know we'll take them through the end-to-end process so it's like a training video we've created on the research phase and they have to watch that make notes off the back of it and then straight after that they've got 24 hours to go away do a research phase on this brand we review it the same then for concepting x amount of cons and they we literally just rinse and repeat that cycle for like two weeks and reps just from day one is so important rather than starting slow and it just it sets the standard for you know that speed and urgency that is required and the level of quality

55:59Olly:required from day one it's like that drive right i use the word drive i've been using the word drive a lot recently because i think that's what you really want in a team member in a business especially in a service business where you're working on other people's companies it's like you need them to be able to drive workflows forward drive outcomes forward and i think you need to set that expectation like you said from the very start i also think that it helps that reframe of like what that probation period is when you're hiring people to being like i just think interviews are pretty pointless i will die on that hill like you cannot learn that much about someone in two and a half hours of spending it on the phone it's impossible to like know if someone really is an a player or not yeah and some people can interview terribly and be amazing and some people can interview amazingly and be terrible and it's like there's no like no commonality across that there's a few you learn like different techniques to pull things out but it's like that first two to three weeks is when you learn about them and you need to learn you need to use that as a like a like a a pretty ruthless check of like are you is this someone that i want to that we want to keep in

57:08Loukas:the company for the long term or is it just not a right fit for both of us yeah i there's a there's a really good clip of Andrew Wilkinson talking about that and just like it's he's kind of said the same like just impossible to actually really know until someone's on the job um and he's very much and we you know we fall into this to some degree but like hiring for potential over pedigree yeah you know someone who and that's why we bring in the culture pillars and the the mindset side so so heavily into that that um you know that that recruitment process yeah i think it's so key

57:45Olly:and then the final area i just wanted to talk talk through was a bit about like marketing and events obviously this is part of our marketing um i think we're we're looking to continue to evolve our marketing strategy into the end of this year i think with the 50th episode of this pod we're definitely going to do a big round table with a number of different guests and debates We've been talking about this for a second. Debate some hot topics. I need to get that in motion. So you'll see that coming soon. We've got an event tomorrow with Conversion Wise with 60 founders. And then we're looking to run another three to four events before the end of the year.

58:20Olly:I think that's just going to be super valuable to just get a lot of founders in the room. But I think the area that I'm sort of thinking about is that like internal marketing to our own team. and that i think we've overlooked that previously where like we do a lot outwardly to people who watch this or consume our content on other platforms but it's easy to think that all of your team sort of consume that and it's but you really do need a process and plan for sort of internal marketing like repetitive message around strategy objective mission vision but also like celebrating wins case studies of amazing work even just going through some of the things that we put out to the to the to the broader um viewer or consumer but we don't maybe spend enough time just going through with our team it's such a simple reframe but it's just something we've not taken as seriously as i think we could and i think it'll produce really good outcomes when we do start doing it yeah 100 yeah i think it's so true we invest so heavily into the marketing side we create

59:29Loukas:some insane resources that we just give out for free and it's like a one-way door and it we we're not really then making sure that that is being echoed it's back into the team because obviously the marketing function is separate from delivery yeah and i'm also just obsessing around the idea of like i think we've been guilty in the past when looking at training

59:52Olly:and development is like new and additive at all times rather than just like 80 % of the results we produce for brands comes from 20 % of the work and it's like we need to obsess around just constantly developing and raising the standards in those areas across the whole company which is hard when you've got like 60 people but that's that reframing of thinking about that a bit more through the lens of a process and a bit more repetitive like and and closed loop like we were discussing yesterday like when we're doing a training and development piece closing the loop and getting people to demonstrate the execution off the back of it I think is something we've we can be better at and excited to put that into practice the next couple of months yeah completely

1:00:34Loukas:agree I think it's a lot of the time it is just the brilliant basics isn't it you know and then and it's it's just developing that one percent at a time and it's the same with like marketing really you're just a lot of the time pounding the same message time and time again and it's it's the same internally about getting those those areas spot on um so yeah completely agree yeah hope

1:01:01Olly:everyone enjoyed that insight into what we're working on yeah um i think we can we can like

1:01:07Loukas:keep that updated as as we go through the year loads of exciting stuff we're working on want to get sam on who's our coo he's just uh joined he's moved to the dark side down to the smoggy london um with us so we'll get him on for an episode he's doing a lot of stuff around uh agent builds isn't he at the moment yeah definitely i'll mention that to him he's come from the village

1:01:27Olly:to the big city so we'll get him we'll get him in but yeah make sure you subscribe to us on youtube

1:01:33Loukas:and spotify um give us five star like the video if you can and because it really really helps but yeah we'll see you on the next episode