The Persona Mastermind: How Top 1% DTC Brands Drive Incremental Reach on Meta

0:00Welcome back to another episode of D2C Diaries. Today I'm super excited because we're going to be talking all things personas and micro personas. And I would say this has been one of our biggest unlocks as an agency group and for the seven and eight figure brands that we work with over the last three months. We're going to go super deep into how we have adapted our persona driven strategy, how we build micro personas and specifically why the old way no longer cuts it. And what we need to do differently now that Meta's algorithm has fundamentally changed how ads get distributed. This isn't a theory session.

0:38By the end, you will have practical frameworks that you can apply to any DTC brand to dramatically improve not only the likes of hit rate and increased spend, but also how you become more efficient and drive incremental reach. If you have a really dialed in persona strategy that goes deep into not only just these macro demographics, but also, you know, core motivators, fears, desires, that is how we're going to drive incremental reach at scale and mean that you aren't wasting the money and the spend that you're putting through your ads manager. So without further ado, let's get into it.

1:21as i said i'm going to start with a bit of a roundup of why personas matter going into how we are optimizing that persona driven strategy what that then means for micro persona mapping and how we build those out we're going to go into teep mapping as well which we'll talk about in a little bit persona led concepting and then also scripting and show you i guess almost like a little bit behind the system that we've built on Claude, which allows us to really align our scripts to the personas that we build as well. So I guess firstly, like why personas matter? Why is this important? And I think, you know, you'll see two stats here.

2:0056 % of all conversions are solely creative based, meaning the creative did the heavy lifting, not the audience targeting settings and 76 % of customers are more likely to buy when messaging feels truly personalized to them. So let's dive into those a little bit. The first one, as we know, like creative is now the targeting. So what you see on your feed, what you see in front of you is determined by the millions of data points that Meta has on us. Now we had a creative strategist internally from Meta come onto the podcast a couple of weeks ago. And I loved his analogy of this, where he said, Andromeda is like the smartest librarian in the world.

2:47They don't only know every book in the library, but they know what is on every single page and every word on each of those pages, which essentially means that Meta now has such a deep understanding of us as the consumer, that there is this soulmate theory, which essentially means that there is a perfect piece of creative out there for every single one of us and that means the way that we utilize the vehicle so how are we actually creating the ad are we doing podcast ads high prod low prod UGC very raw one one shot what's the type of creative that resonates most with you as an individual but then also how are we speaking directly to each of us that is also super important and why persona driven strategy is one of the most important things associated with meta's new rules around creative diversity because we may be diversifying the vehicle but if we're not diversifying the way we're speaking to each individual then we aren't going to be speaking to anyone essentially and that is super super important so as i said in terms of like what andromeda likes we've broken this down into uh you know the the good the bad the green side it very much rewards targeting based on user behavior strong engagement signals um like views over time comments, shares, ads that are clearly aimed at people most likely to convert and creative performance over targeting tricks.

4:09So as I say, that's again, why the persona piece is so important, because if we aren't telling Andromeda, we aren't giving Andromeda the signals in terms of, okay, this is a core motivator, fear, desire that is associated with this person that they are, that is going to really prick their interest, then it isn't even going to serve it to them directly. And then as you can see on the red side, you know, demographics alone are too broad. They don't give the algorithm enough signals. So volume alone doesn't work either. You can't just churn out content and essentially hope that something sticks right.

4:47And critically, you know, we shouldn't be measuring success by output volume, but by strategic coverage. So how many psychological landscapes have we actually mapped? And I think Sarah Levenger, shout out Sarah, did a amazing, wrote an amazing article about different psychological states going into valence zones. now if we're able to nail our persona as I mentioned this can dramatically increase spend it will boost your relevance so if we're able to tap into the right psyches and audiences from the get-go it will allow for much better response and results without having to just resort for volume to volume for volume sake I think this is a big thing because sometimes when brands are struggling with incremental reach and their reach is damaging and they just think the answer is just to throw throw more volume at the problem.

5:39Now, this is kind of where I'm getting to with this diversifying your emotional states and those four valence zones, because if you look at the ads that you are producing for your brand, you will see that, you know, you're likely speaking in the same way to the same, maybe two, three, four personas max. And as a result of that, you know, we're throwing more at the problem, but we're just, if you actually looked at like a bit of a gap analysis in terms of where we aren't targeting and where we are we will be speaking to the same people in the same way time and time again and as a result that more volume isn't going to fix the problem whereas if we can diversify across okay you might have one macro persona right so me and ollie as an example on paper we're the same persona we're the same age you know we are we have similar interests you know we're in the same industry we you know but an ad that targets us needs to speak to both of us very differently because we've got different fears, different motivators, different core desires.

6:43And if you speak to my fears directly versus Ollie's, which are going to be different, then I'm more likely to resonate with that creative. And again, that is what, as you can see on the right here, drives that incremental reach. So as we know, a persona, what's in a persona, you know, goes way beyond the demographic to itself as I just discussed with the example with me and Ollie and I think most of the time what you see with what needs to be included in one of these is an emotional state so that is you know frustration burnout what is the trigger essentially um core desires and key motivators so that defines the micro persona the motivation behind solving what that problem actually is and what threatens them.

7:28This is how we can truly diversify our messaging. Because although one person, one persona in theory might remain the same, there is multiple different variations of that on a micro level, because they all potentially have different fears. And a great example of that is parents, right? You know, parents have different desires and different fears. For one parent, it could be based on them actually having a real desire or fear to you know not show themselves up against other parents so they're almost worried about how it makes them look as a parent they're you know the the I guess the actions of their child reflect or mirror them as a parent and then in terms of their status right so that is potentially one parent another parent could be very much focused on you know maybe the health implications of a product for a child and that is what actually really tap you can tap into the fear associated with this product is really bad because you know your the sugar the sugar content is as much of a can of coke now that is speaking directly to a parent that their fear is the health implications of what they are putting into their child whereas if you if you approach that in a slightly different way uh from the perspective of imagine what you know Susie down the road is feeding their children it isn't that then suddenly it becomes a slightly different conversation and as a result we're tapping into different fears and desires so so that's another thing to keep in mind now key contextual moments is another one so situations and scenarios in which the pain point is evident and the emphasis on agitation over aspiration essentially so how do we ensure that we are driving that agitation of the pain point over say aspiration and that's where we are looking at okay actual self is you know really focusing on the problem right now but all self or sorry ideal self is really looking at you know what what does the customer envision the future of themselves to be so it's like almost before state versus after state.

9:39So our current personas before we looked at like rebuilding this whole process kind of looked a little bit like this. So we had age range, you know, a bit of a personality description, digital footprint, gender problem, very surface level in hindsight, right? This is what worked once upon a time, but now we need to become much more intricate in the way that we are approaching the micro personas. So what is missing? I think awareness level is one of them, right? So how are we speaking to that person depending on where they sit within the funnel? Now, you know, awareness level is super key. And I talk a lot about this within our storytelling and script writing masterminds.

10:21If you haven't listened to that after this, definitely go and have a listen. But if I'm like problem unaware, you're going to be speaking to me as a persona in a very different way to someone that is very solution aware right the messaging is going to adapt so therefore we need to label that within one of those micro personas so the deep core desires and fears is another one right so I think the thing here is if this was a parent between 30 and 45 let's say or 30 and even 55 one of those parents could be say 45 years old with a teenager the other one could be 30 years old with a one-year-old the scenarios they're dealing with are completely different a younger kid throwing a tantrum versus an older one where they're juggling you know school runs extra curriculum maybe going through hormonal changes and how that impacts their relationship with their parents so again as you can see those those real specific new states is really really important and it will impact the likes of skepticisms as well and psychological pulls to convert so how do we amend our personas with the new algorithm and also find and craft those micro personas so here's kind of what we identified is is kind of missing right and and to get into our micro personas we need to be able to separate the personas mental states and motivators so we should map how different types of people think feel and behave so again if you've got macro personas if you've got like a trained clawed bot or you know gpt bot that understand your personas or you upload that information in with the right domain context associated that could be recent research that could be you know obviously you want brand context as well so you want to be able to have a full brand summary you want to have a breakdown of that the personas that you have in question right now maybe your recent strategic report that breaks down the data the insights the strategic direction in which we're going if you load a bot with all of this context and your macro personas and ask questions like this You know, how do different ways experience the same problem?

12:47What beliefs or emotional blocks exist around it? Why do some users convert instantly while others resist? We'll be able to start crafting how we speak differently to different types of people that maybe sit within this realm. And to get into micro personas, we really need to separate mental states and motivators. You know, they're almost like the subgroups within each. Right. Right. So how do they think? How do they feel, behave? And I think, you know, a thing that we need to think about here is we're looking at what different people, sorry, what different ways people that experience the same problem, what beliefs or emotional blocks exist around them.

13:27Right. Why some users convert instantly, why others don't. And I think like what makes up a micro persona that maybe goes a little bit deeper into what we just discussed there. There's four key components, essentially. The first one, awareness level. So where in the funnel or customer journey are they right now? This is being referred to as TIP mapping within the industry right now. So T is for trigger, which is problem aware. E is for exploration, which is solution aware. E for evaluation, which is product aware. And P for purchase, which is most aware. Now, do you prefer to work through the lens of like, you know, you've got unaware, problem aware, solution aware, product aware, most aware, not use that TIP setup?

14:10Again, that's also absolutely fine. But we've started looking at through this lens as well. You've got core fears and desires, right? So what desires appeal most? What job needs to be done by a solution? But also what's the deepest fear if, say, you know, they don't find a solution? I think this is super important. I think especially when you get into emotional based storytelling, you really want to be digging deeper into the why which is the core desire in which it lives below a pain point so the example that i used in the storytelling um mastermind was if someone you know really they're solving a you know the the the surface level problem with a skincare product is to get rid of a spot let's say if it was an acne serum but really at a much deeper level the core fear is being judged.

15:06The core fear is not feeling beautiful. The desire is to be accepted or to have confidence. And if we're tapping into these different fears and desires, is a much better way to have psychological diversity in which in the way that in which we speak to our customer. The next one is bias. So the psychological shortcut that determines which message they believe essentially so this will vary based on awareness level and personality different people need different types of proof and persuasion right as we know um so that bias is is super important in the way in which we speak to them creative consumption as well so you know what does uh the persona engage with organically in their feeds and i think you know this is this is important because where they consume content almost dictates the way we speak to them if someone is largely a consumer on reddit as an example usually you find a slightly longer form way of speaking uh that feels more storytelling driven and usually actually has a much longer setup to a problem will relate better whereas if we may be speaking to uh gen z we usually find that actually they they you know much shorter attention spans they like they're much more visual uh in in their approach uh they they like to see information quickly they like to um be hooked by things that are attention grabbing in nature which could be something that is satisfying as a result so within a hook popping a balloon uh concepts that i see work well there are like whiteboard concepts because they're very visual in nature.

16:50We're not just speaking to them. We're seeing the visuals laid out on a board with a voiceover that drives that forward. So I always like to think about creative consumption, which usually leads to like a more generational based cohort. As I just said, then like Gen X versus Gen Z and where they consume their content, because how we speak to them will be different as a result of that. so just to go a little bit deeper into this like teat mapping piece um and you know breaking it down a little bit trigger equals problem aware so they're very much experiencing the trigger to purchase but don't know where to begin they need education and empathy right so again if we have a micro persona that is pretty unaware from a market point of view maybe we need to do more educational based VSL content to speak to them in a way that is going to get them lower within the funnel.

17:48So the next one is exploration, as I say, so that is very much like it equals solution aware. So we're getting lower down within the funnel, they are very much aware that the solution exists, that our solution exists, but haven't necessarily solved that pain point yet. So they may have experienced bad alternatives and they need differentiation and trust to be able to know that our option is the right one and i think this comes into bias to some degree as well like you know what is the biggest threat if there isn't say a solution and i think the biggest threat we can uncover when we're speaking to solution awareness we can really agitate that they have had lots of failed solutions previously and we can speak to what those failed solutions are So, for example, coming back to the, you know, the skincare one, if we're speaking to someone who is really struggling with their acne, if they sit within that exploration phase, they have already failed with a lot of products.

18:49They've had so many failed solutions that we can use a lot of setup time agitating that. You know, they have been prescribed products for their acne. They have tried, you know, off the shelf natural solutions. They've done all of these things and nothing has quite worked. And we can really tap into that. The next one, evaluation equals product aware. So this is the sceptic. They're evaluating whether your specific product is right for them and they need evidence and objection handling. So, again, we will be really opening with those core objectives, objections and speaking directly to them. And the most obvious one that we see in that case is always like comment reply style videos.

19:31or we find, you know, founder story objection handling ads do really well right now. And it almost like a podcast format where you've got someone that is arguing against the founder and the founder then is, you know, handling those objections accordingly. And then you've got purchase at the bottom of the teak map, which is most aware. So they're ready to purchase. You know, we can be very direct in which in the ways in which we speak to them. So I think just going a little bit deeper into bias, I think this is a big one, because it's that psychological shortcut that very much kind of determines which message a user believes when they don't have time to think.

20:09We've got Microsoft Persona prompts that we're going to share as part of this that will help identify the relevant one for each persona specifically. And I think through context engineering and having reviews and having a deep understanding of your brand, you know, AI is your best friend here. And it will really help you craft what these biases look like. So let's go into what they are. So the first one, social proof. If others like me did this, it's safer. So it's this idea of authentic UGC, you know, review and comment screenshots, really leaning into how do we bring more soft CTAs throughout the creative.

20:50So when we're speaking to a social proof bias, someone who needs to have validation that this has worked for other people or that there are a lot of other people that trust this product or service then i will always scatter soft ctas throughout the creative that could be as simple as this so there's different types of soft ctas right that could be um you know leading with a solution and then saying that no wonder 100 000 customers uh love this product it could be actually using like PR as as a soft CTA or even a study so um you know if you're agitating a pain point about let's say bloating to do with the menopause and then coming in straight away with you know no wonder this study um suggests that 30 percent of people going through the menopause struggle with bloating we've set up the problem we've set up the bias around social proof that other people like the menopause or woman have this problem and therefore we can introduce the solution um so the next one is risk slash loss loss aversion so it's this idea of like i want to avoid making the wrong choice more than i want upside um so again you know these are people that are risk averse how do we ensure that we are really setting them up in a way that is going to build that trust so they make the plunge to buy the product so guarantees free trials honest downside framing these are all ways that we can do that i think another one you find with this these type of people is that education is is really important for them because they want to be truly educated in a way that allows them to have made a calculated decision that this is the right solution for them and going very bottom of funnel you know the bottom half of that teep isn't going to do that the next one is authority bias so if an expert endorses this it's credible So this is where we want to be using creatives like expert VSLs, expert podcast ads, you know, bringing professionals in as well.

22:56I think as well, like another thing that works here is is testimonial content that relates to, you know, to customers, real customers of the brand, because that is that that creates credibility that is a real, authentic customer. and we have a brand called 47 skin that do this very well and i think that authority bias works well for that reason because you have people like the founders turning up brings authority face to the brand us as humans we like to link a face to a product to be able to to trust it better um but yeah so that's that's one i think data points is another one so i mentioned that this works across social proof but also works across authority bias that if we bring pr um sorry not PR, if we bring studies into the mix or say hooks that lead with data or lead with some kind of insight that is associated with the study, this usually works really well.

23:54So, you know, I have no idea that 30 % of women going through the menopause struggle with bloating. Great headline fact instantly. But then again, on the reverse, it could be something that, you know, we do a survey for our brand and product that we can then are able to say 55 % of people that use our product feel better after 90 days. For the authority bias, this is the kind of language that we would want to tie into that creative alongside that education from expert-based figures as well. The next one is effort minimalization. So I want the least friction possible. So I think this is the way where we the way we speak to this individual is very much agitating around the problem of like failed solutions how you know how much how much friction there is associated with using that product and the reverse for us right so we really want to focus on language like takes 30 seconds you know it doesn't impact your routine uh really visually showing the simplicity timelines is also a good one as well for this so you know for example we do ads we might do an ad where um you know here's here's what happened when i took this supplement for 30 days 30 days doesn't sound very long you know and we can visually show that actually you know this is low effort and we're visually showing that and here's the solution or the after state as a result of that novelty and pattern interruption is another one um so this is different pay attention so this is kind of I see this working better with younger audiences that usually fit within that Gen Z range, as I mentioned earlier.

25:34So unexpected hooks, you know, controversy is another big one. Visual interruption. So we'll think more about, you know, how are we going to bring in visual layers within the hook to ensure that we are, you know, grabbing attention to this individual. So as you can see, like based on this bias, it impacts how we change the visuals of the concept itself. And it very much breaks generic UGC formats because they've got it's got a much bigger twist. And then the sixth one is identity reinforcement. So this aligns with who I am or want to be. I think, you know, you have people that are very driven by identity.

26:17and I think you know this is where maybe people that was a good example of this people that are maybe eco-friendly this is where maybe you would speak to that identity that they really live by and these are the kind of people that don't have goals in life they almost have purpose and that purpose is what they center everything they do around so the better we can speak to that you know the whether that be value-based so they have values like if you're the kind of person who um x y and z then um you know that that kind of thing again works really well value-led messaging um so how do we how do we really kind of push with values at the forefront of our messaging and also community framing it's that idea of you know there are lots of us that all stand by the same mission the same objective and i think usually identity reinforcement very much works when we are speaking directly to a mission that is associated with the brand.

27:17And I think this is a really good example of like where a bias that aligns to micro personas, because what breaks it is when you are trying to speak to everyone and they don't like that. They want to be spoken to directly. So, yeah, it doesn't work when you are trying to appeal to everyone, essentially. So here's an example of a micro persona build. Here we've got our macro persona. And then here's three potential micro personas that have fallen off, have come off this. So let's just go to macro first. You know, you've got age range 30 to 45. We've got a personality description, someone who's caring, practical, puts others first, feels guilty or prioritizing themself.

27:59Gender, female. And then breaking that down, you know, we have three different builds on this. So persona 1.1, firstly, when you build your micro personas, I'd really recommend codifying them because when you put these in the ad account within our naming conventions, we'll put like P1.1, P1.3. And then therefore we can do like some gap analysis in the ad account on, OK, which personas are we maybe under indexing on versus over indexing on? We can do comparative reports as well. So that's just one little hack that I'd recommend doing. um but yeah let's look at persona 1.1 keeping up appearances so awareness level t thinking knows she's struggling but hasn't identified stress management as the solution uh pressure and comparison with others other mums at school makes her feel she just needs to try harder or be more organized her core fear is failure being seen as a bad mum so do you see what i mean when I used that example earlier.

29:00Being seen as a bad mum is a really big fear that we can tap into. Core motivator, social status, wants to feel capable, in control of her responsibilities and to feel on par with the other mums on the school gate. And digital footprint, YouTube, etc, etc. But now if we compare this maybe to P1.2 here, we've got awareness level E, exploring knows she needs help with stress but overwhelmed by the options has tried various things apps breathing exercises but nothing has stuck or worked sustainably so as you can see here failed solutions are being tied in more we're going to bring that into our messaging core fear irreparable damage so constant irritability and emotional outbursts are permanently damaging her relationship with her children so fears they'll remember her as the angry mum and that she's failing them in their formative years so what I love about this you see how different this is one of them the core fear is like failure as a bad mum but seen by other mums as a bad mum so it's social status whereas this core fear is very much related to her kids thinking she's a bad mum or thinking she's an angry mum.

30:20And her core motivator in comparison to the other mum is connection and presence. So, you know, she wants that incredible relationship with her family and her kids. So we are going to tap into that. And I think that's a great example of like two, technically same persona, but we're speaking to them very, very differently. I won't go through the third one right now, just in the nature of time, but here you have a great example of what those three micro personas might look like in detail. and from this you can really start to speak to them very differently and how we bring that into our scripts is something that we're going to talk about in a little bit as well.

30:57So as you can see we've brought in awareness levels, deep core desires and fears, a specific new state as well which I think is super super important, those skepticisms and then those psychological pulls which really help us convert the right customer and get in front of the right customer. It tells Andromeda that the, it tells Andromeda the signals that we need to put this in front of the right person. And that is what I discussed before, where we align it to soulmate theory, right? The more signals we can tell Meta that this is a very specific persona that we are speaking to, the more likely Meta are to put it in front of that individual.

31:37And if we took this one step further, right, this is where the valence zone comes in. So I just wanted to show this diagram of, let's say we have our micro persona. We might have this micro persona here, 1.2, but we might actually speak to them in lots of different ways. In zone one, we might be doing it in a kind of calm, supportive way. But zone four, which actually is where if you look into your ad account, you are going to find that most of your creative lives is very panic, sadness, loss, anxiety. you know so again diversifying further you can see we've got all these different touch points now to really drive incremental reach within the ad account because not only are we looking into different cause fears desires but we're looking at the valence and the way in which we are speaking to these people and through that emotional cycle psychology um if you've noticed something different about my face i've just had a haircut i off with representing this and realized that i had a haircut booked and I'd run out of time so uh yeah we're back anyway we are now going through how to concept so we just reflect on what we've gone through so far we've broken down the importance of personas in this environment in an environment where we need to be driving incremental reach and how more volume doesn't always equal greater levels of spend um or incrementality we've gone through actually the difference between a macro and a micro persona and the layers in which we build with our micro personas.

33:10And now we are going through, okay, what does this actually mean in execution? So from concepting to scripting, what does this look like and how does it build into our process? And I think, you know, some of the things that we want to just touch on today is, is this idea of like persona led concepting. So, you know, building the persona and then applying the messaging to the script isn't usually enough to really differentiate who that persona is and how we can give meta the right triggers to triggers to put that in front of the right person and i think across ads organic content and reels you know meta is very much as we said before making a big strategic shift right and it's moving away from that question of like what keeps people watching towards this very specific question of like what genuinely matches what this persona cares about and not only what they care about how do they like being uh spoken to so that that aligns with the vehicle the messaging vehicle in which we choose to speak to them which is why it's really important we marry those two up very nicely in terms of both uh vehicle and persona but Overall, what does all of this mean?

34:23Visually, we need to align our concepts with what our, you know, what our personas enjoy organically. What is the kind of content that they are resonating with? You know, and again, you can get a good feel for this through your organic research. But if you are like super, super hyper specific into a, you know, you're looking at keywords that relate to let's go back to the mother there, the parent. and you know if we are typing in keywords related to that persona so again even if say you know her fear is the hit the fear of being you know shamed as a bad parent you could type things in like am i a bad parent on tiktok see what kind of content is coming up and as a result from that you're able to see what is resonating with people like that individual because if the you can actually toggle by most viewed you can obviously look at okay what are people really resonating with here And that is a good indication of the type of vehicles that may also work through paid.

35:20And usually those more organic vehicles could align themselves more to big swings. So here are some real examples of persona led creative that's been inspired by organic content and the specific persona that they are targeting. So we're very much it's about creating the world in which the persona lives in. And I think this one up here is a really good example of that, where, you know, if you know women that are in maybe their early 50s and the way that they are posting content to their Facebook feed, they almost do these like photos or images with text overlays on top of it. It looks very ugly, very lo-fi, very native and not very pretty.

36:01And I think this is a great example of aligning a piece of creative to the way in which they like to consume content or have been used to consuming content on social with. And I think from a strategic point of view, there's different personas that respond to different formats, as I just mentioned. And this aligns with biases, identities and also those core motivators. So a couple of examples of these are like skeptics. So obviously with skeptics, you're going to want to create comparison ads, you know, ingredient call outs. So you're very much focusing on the product benefits and the product USPs, those elements that they don't tell you.

36:38So it's like, you know, the secret. We've got the time poor pragmatists. So that could be, as I say, you know, quick demos. How do we show, don't tell? Short, punchy, timeline based, face to camera driven. Trends as well. Also, those trend followers, we will be speaking in a way that is like aligns with trends right now. What are the cultural relevant trends in which we can say our message that aligns to their world in which they see it at this given time, which is on social media, of course. We've got social proof seekers. So this is carousel testimonials, before and afters, static based ads, sold out messaging.

37:23We really want to be focusing here on elements that are going to build that trust and show them that others are loving this product as well. Emotional seekers. So we see with this like very emotive driven UGC that has a long setup. So emotional seekers, you know, you are going to be focusing very much on how do we really agitate and set up the problem before introducing the solution. So we're going to want to bring in those like human desire curiosity loops where we open a curiosity loop, a.k.a. you know, I my skin is so bad that I don't even want to go outside without redoing my makeup three times.

38:05and then the after stay is focusing on now I forget to put makeup on most time when I go out and you can see there's a stark difference there in terms of a character arc of I literally had to reapply my makeup three times because I was overthinking it so much to the point where I now don't even think about that so I forget to put my makeup on so you can see that works really well for these emotional seekers we also have clued up researchers so hack podcasts, vsls reddit posts i know another one that works really well for this style um is almost like top top listicle so top five products in x category in x season as an example um but as you know like those reddit style podcast posts uh is stuff that's working really well right now from a static point of view very native as well so definitely one to test but again this isn't as you know going to drive as much leverage from a vehicle point of view in terms of that persona alignment as say maybe the actual getting the persona the core angle and the way that we're going to tap into their fears and motivators but it is also an important element that you need to be thinking about as a secondary point of view because for example you know if we have one micro persona that we want to speak to and we pick a messaging vehicle that really doesn't align to that type of person then you know we're potentially not going to grab their attention so a good example of that actually is like we have one brand and they are targeting people that are over 60 and what works for them is literally speak you know someone on screen that is also within that demographic over 60 and the ads are like two three minutes long and there's a super long setup and they're much slower and there's not much editing and it feels very raw um now if you play if you tested that exact format on maybe a uh an audience that you a cohort that you were tapping into that is like 20 to 23 24 you may struggle to uh you know grasp their attention or hold on to their attention because of the the social differences of those two generational cohorts so first thing i just wanted to share from more like a workflow point of view when we've built all of our personas out we will have a creative strategy operating system we call it a csos that lives within notion within this there is the what which is the objective there is the why which is the strategic thesis which again we update on a monthly basis based on what our strategic report says the data important that you turn the data into a clear why which is essentially a hypothesis as to why we're going to do something differently or what the direction is based on this set of data right um the other thing we will have in there is the how so the how includes the strategy um so the funnel splits the persona splits and we will split based on persona and micro persona so based on all of our content we're going to be targeting 20 to this persona um five percent to this micro persona etc etc you see what I mean.

41:18Now we build the other section into the COSOS, which is the persona band, which essentially is a breakdown of all the macro personas and then all the micro personas that live within them. So if you opened one of these up, it would have a full breakdown of that persona with all of the details, all of the core motivators, fears, desires, et cetera, et cetera. Now why this is great, and it's great having a single source of truth and a centralized dashboard where all of this can live is because we've built this into our scripting processes with Claude. So we have a Claude script skill and we need to do a whole session on skills.