A Why?: Why Everyone Hates Microsoft Copilot - DTNSB 5093

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2:18Huyen Tue Dao: this is the daily tech news for thursday august 28th 2025 we tell you what you need to know we follow up on context we help each other understand today andy beach tells us why meta bought an emotional speech startup and copilot is coming to samsung tvs and y 'all are not not pleased i'm top merit i'm into it now let's start with what you need to know with the big story Samsung announced it will incorporate Microsoft Copilot into the Samsung Vision AI experience, which is basically the assistant on its 2025 TVs and monitors. You'll be able to get it in the home screen, Samsung Daily Plus, and click to search.

3:02Huyen Tue Dao: If you're a Samsung user, you might know what those are. Basically what happens is you can either use the voice command on your TV or select co-pilot on the remote. And then I don't know if you saw when the little Microsoft blob, it kind of looks like a peach or a pink teardrop. Oh, is that what that is? Yeah. They showed that off earlier this year. That'll be on the Samsung TVs. And then it'll answer your questions, respond to your queries, et cetera. Search results will be improved because they can be based on what the model knows about your viewing habits on the machine. If you sign into the Copilot app with your Microsoft login.

3:39Huyen Tue Dao: It can reference previous conversations. You don't have to do that, but that's a benefit you get if you do. It can also answer questions about what you're viewing. You can say like, who's that actor? Who's the quarterback? Which one of these guys is Travis Kelsey? Stuff like that. Plot summaries. Can you know, if you want to like, can you tell me what happened on the first three episodes when you're coming back into a show? And Samsung promises it can quote support foreign language learning or help break down complex concepts. I didn't see any examples of the complex concepts that it would break down.

4:15Quantum mechanics?

4:17Huyen Tue Dao: Yeah. Can you, because that's what I want from my television. Yeah, exactly. I can see the foreign language thing maybe, you know, with subtitles and stuff. Anyway, Samsung TVs also have a lifestyle hub already for like food and recipes and all that. And you'll be able to talk to Copilot about food, and wellness and other topics beyond entertainment. It's worth noting that Samsung isn't the only one bringing Copilot to TVs. LG is supposed to bring them as well. This is just the first launch. We'll probably get LG's launch pretty soon. Samsung said it will show up on the 2025 versions of its micro RGB, Neo QLED or OLED TVs, as well as the Frame Pro, other frame models and the M7, M8 and M9 smart monitors.

5:01Huyen Tue Dao: Those are monitors that have some TV functions built in. This continues the pushback of Google Assistant on these TVs. Samsung uses its own Tizen OS, so it's not a shock. LG uses its own web OS. And while they could and have used Assistant, and they could but have not add Gemini, that's probably what Google would prefer, they've chosen to strike deals with Microsoft instead. Now, as we alluded to at the top of the show, the folks at our DTS subreddit laid into this. comments were on the order of did someone ask for this or needs blockchain a simple boo and I want off this ride so when is this just because it's Microsoft or is it negativity towards chatbots in general that makes people hate I I really do feel like this is just chatbots and people feeling Like someone is trying to make their TV a Swiss army knife of things.

5:58And so to be totally fair, there's a lot of things that I think are compelling about some of the functionality. But this feels like a very common thing, not just with AI, but with tech in general, where, I don't know, someone sees an opportunity to make X the new place you do Y. And it's been like that forever. and unfortunately the big x that we're trying to put in everybody's why that sounds inappropriate is ai and so i think we kind of take like a general situation we find in tech often we insert ai and so there's just probably more negativity than than on average but i will say okay so there's some good things here right i could see using wait click to search i saw i read i immediately i thought first it's circle to search but this there's something that are interesting and it actually brings up something that i thought where you know about five or six years ago as a developer i actually was quite excited about having machine learning for things like understanding a user's habits understanding things that they like content you know what what it was like surfacing things for people easier and and we were training models and all that sounded great and i'm trying to like introspect to myself so what's so so different in 2025 that i hate this and i mean part of it is a lot of the use cases that we have seen at best just not be have as much that have as much utility and at worse present incorrect information or you know or things like that and i i see echoes of all this in like this very long you know blob of no pun intended functionality and so i i totally get that i think it's just i don't i don't and again like it also feels like in the last week i don't know if it's actually happening but you know everyone's talking about now oh like you know after some altman said that yes there indeed there's an ai bubble and i don't know if that's also feeding into as well as letting people crystallize their feelings of negativity even more and wanting to get all this right that's that's my read we're at that point

7:56Huyen Tue Dao: in the gartner hype cycle yes whatever it's called right just over the just over the we're on the downside of the hump downside yeah that makes sense i like the idea of this being uh if x then a y I don't know why. Because, yeah, I think you can cherry pick this. And I bet there are some really useful things in here. And the optimist in me says, hey, you know what? You got to try this sort of thing to figure out what things are useful. So I'm not against it. But I get there's so many things. I think the Microsoft hate is kind of pervasive these days. I feel like it's the 90s again. everybody's mad at microsoft uh this time more for security and stuff but and sticking copilot everywhere uh so there is a little bit of that i think anytime there's a animated assistant yeah then people just start you know throwing tomatoes at it um and yeah there is a little bit of that uh tv operating systems generally try to get us to do things that we don't need to do historically so this feels like that again but i bet we will find some things where you're like oh actually that is really cool being able to just say uh what other things has that actor been in that i might know yeah and then it knows like oh you've watched you recently watched this he was the he played such and such uh character and you're like ah that's it without having to pull out the phone and open imdb and scroll through like again that's not the most important thing in the world, right?

9:28But it's stuff like that. Yeah. I mean, click to search actually would be really handy. We recently watched a video as my husband and I go to Japan a lot. We both speak some Japanese and our language learners. And we watched some random YouTube video where a guy was eating lunch on a beach near a Rio kind of traditional Japanese inn. And we're like, oh my God, we have to go there. And so without, I mean, and to give this credence without click to search we were doing like forensic googling where we were pulling up maps of the general area looking at the like the topography like in the surrounding landscape and then looking at google maps so i think that process would have been faster with click to search and it makes sense also for advertising stuff could you imagine seeing your favorite actor wearing something something and you click on it i mean it just it just seems like from all perspective it's a it's a really rich opportunity.

10:19It's just, yeah, it's like right now, it's literally the darts thrown at the wall, except your TV's on the wall and the darts are AI things. I will say though that whoever first created Clippy, I hope that they feel validated that at least the company are to come back around again on digital assistance of some non-human.

10:38Huyen Tue Dao: Even Clippy's had a little bit of a rejuvenation. Like, you know, there's such a humor about it. So, yeah. Yeah, there is no cost to this. Microsoft's not charging you. Samsung's not charging you. You don't have to log in. So there's nothing that says you have to share your data with them. Obviously, these TVs collect a lot of data. So you may just want to unplug it from the internet and not use this, which you can do. So most of the control is in your hands here. And I understand why people might not want to use it. But yeah, I like the idea at a low enough cost to be able to say, like you're saying, where is that Reocon?

11:17Huyen Tue Dao: And have it be able to accurately respond. I guess that's the other half of it is how accurate is Copilot. Well, I mean, I guess we'll see. And if, I don't know, if anyone ends up using this and likes it or is still boo, get this out of my TV. Just let us know. We do have those people have already let us know. Oh, they know what it is. Literally the boo and I went off this ride. So I'm not that I'm saying you can't keep coming with that, but we're, we're very clear on that aspect. Yeah. If you have first person experience that decided, yeah, this ain't it. This ain't it. And here's why. Yeah. That would be helpful.

11:54Yes. All right. Well, DTNS is made possible by you, the listener. We want to take time to thank Michelle Serju, Kirk Steffensen, and Miranda Janelle.

12:05Huyen Tue Dao: As well as new patrons, Gabriel and Brett. I'm so sorry. I missed it. There was a break. Welcome, Gabriel and Brett. I'm so sorry. No, Gabriel Brett, you were just pausing to give them the spotlight. Emphasis, emphasis. Because of new patrons.

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13:16For whatever happens next, grab Kleenex. This episode is brought to you by Capital One. Capital One's tech team isn't just talking about multi-agentic AI. They already deployed one. It's called Chat Concierge and it's simplifying car shopping. Using self-reflection and layered reasoning with live API checks, it doesn't just help buyers find a car they love. It helps schedule a test drive, get pre-approved for financing, and estimate trade-in value. Advanced, intuitive, and deployed. That's how they stack. That's technology at Capital One. Hi, this is Paige from Giggly Squad, and today's episode is brought to you by McDonald's.

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15:24Huyen Tue Dao: There's more we need to know today. Let's get right to the briefs. All right, well, DJI released the DJI Mic 3, which is smaller and lighter at 16 grams versus the 28 grams of the Mic 2. It also adds a rotating clip along with the magnetic option for mounting the transmitter. You also get five colors of windscreen, so it stands out less from clothing, which, of course, is undermined by having the huge DJI logo on both sides. The charging case can also accommodate the transmitter with the mount and windscreen still attached. The transmitter can go eight hours on a charge and the receiver 10 hours and the case can charge them up about 2.4 times before it needs recharge.

16:04The range is estimated at 400 meters. If you buy multiple kits, you can support four transmitters and eight receivers at once. So four people and eight cameras at a time. It also supports Sony's four channel quadraphonic sound. and there are two sound modes, automatic for suppressing bursts of noise like wind and dynamic mode, which evens out the volume in real time. It also has three voice tone presets and two active noise cancellation levels. The one big thing DJI took away is a 3.5 millimeter mic port on the transmitter so you can't use your own mics. It's on sale now for$329 for a receiver and two transmitters or$219 if you just need one transmitter and one receiver.

16:52Huyen Tue Dao: Yeah, good stuff. And the fact that you don't have to take the windscreen and the mount off to recharge. I mean, it seems silly, but that seems like the most revolutionary part of this for me. I love this. And I have to admit, I get why they're taking away the three and a half millimeter mic port. And it just feels like, man, I feel like if I see a YouTuber these days, everyone, especially anyone doing content, is always holding a wireless mic. And I suppose it's 60 % chance it's DJI, 40 % that it's Rode. So this really does seem like DJI is leaning in. You know what I mean? And I love that. I mean, I am sad because I am a person that when I was recording video really liked using my own mic.

17:29So sad on me, but it makes a lot of sense. And wow, this is good on you, DJI.

17:34Huyen Tue Dao: And it's only like, you know,$10 for a Sharpie to color out that DJI logo. Nvidia issued a disappointing earnings report that beat expectations for earnings and revenue and issued estimates higher than expected for next quarter. So you might go, wait, what? Why is that disappointing? That sounded good to me. It's because data center revenue fell short of estimates for the second straight quarter. And everybody thinks data center is the growth area for Nvidia. Overall company revenue rose 56 % on the year. That's the ninth straight quarter of yearly growth over 50%. It sold no H20 chips to China last quarter, so it still made that revenue without the Chinese market, though it did sell some H20s outside of China.

18:18Huyen Tue Dao: It did not include H20 sales to China in its estimates for next quarter either. Those rosy estimates don't include that, but it does believe it probably will be able to sell some if conditions prevail. NVIDIA's gaming division did gangbusters with the new NVIDIA cards, rising 49%. And its future growth area, smaller robotics division, rose 69%. Company also said that that agreement to pay 15 % of its sales to China to the U.S. government has not progressed beyond the early stages because the government hasn't indicated what regulations it's going to use to govern those payments. Remember when we talked about it on DTNS, we're like, we have lots of ways that we think they could make this legal, but they haven't said.

19:00Huyen Tue Dao: And apparently they haven't told NVIDIA either. NVIDIA CFO Colette Kress said that sales to China can still proceed even if they don't get those regulations codified because they already got the license from the U.S. to export to China. And another thing that popped up in the earnings call, NVIDIA is joining Alphabet and Kostla Ventures in funding Commonwealth Fusion Systems to complete its demonstration of fusion energy. Fusion energy is a safe and clean way to produce abundant energy that everybody wants to make work and nobody has actually made work yet in a practical manner. So the fact that they got this many investors means somebody at Commonwealth is convincing them that they can do it.

19:43Sounds like the plot of that Valcomer movie, The Saint, which was a really good movie. Fusion was very central to that movie. Anyway, reviews are in for the Honor Magic V5 foldable as it goes on sale in Europe, Asia Pacific and the Middle East. It's currently the thinnest foldable yet at 8.88 millimeters when folded. But that's if you don't count the huge camera bump. Which is like a kickstand. As someone who has a thin foldable with a big camera bump and feels like they're sending a telegraph message when it's sitting on the table and I'm reaching for it, one sympathizes very much. I don't even think that was my, I think that was Florence Ein who said that.

20:20And I agree, the telegraph. It can't, so the Honor Magic V5, though, can't take the crown of thinness when unfolded because it's 4.1 millimeters thick, just so fat, which is half a millimeter thicker than the Huawei triple fold when unfolded. Otherwise, it's well-reviewed on its specs. The Honor Magic V5 sells at a starting price of 1 ,699.99 sterling or 1 ,999 euros for a 512 gigabyte version. Yeah.

20:51Huyen Tue Dao: And reviews are all super positive for this. Now, though, that you said I'm not calling it fat and made me think of Cardi B. Have you seen that yet? Not yet. She's like on the witness stand. Like, did you call her fat? She's like, no, I called her the B word.

21:09Excellent. I didn't. Sorry.

21:11Huyen Tue Dao: I'm not calling the Honor Magic the B word either. I wonder which is wetter. Well, I'll think about it and let you know Honor Magic B. Apple has revoked distribution rights for the iTorrent client, which is distributed through the AltStorePal third-party app store in the EU. So that's Apple blocking an app from a third-party store, not one from its own app store. Apple does not allow torrent apps in its own store, but the torrent client Qubit control appears to be unblocked for the moment. So it may not be just the fact that it's a torrent app. Apple has revoked the EU alternative distribution functionality from iTorrent developer Zytrix's developer account.

21:53Huyen Tue Dao: That's how they're able to do this. Apple has not explained the reason for the restriction to the developer or Alt Store Pal, at least at the time that we're recording this. All right. Well, the new Pixel 10 series is also getting good reviews for the functionality of its Gemini-powered features. And Google has launched a new after-purchase program called Pixel Care Plus, which replaces the previously less snappily named Preferred Care and Fi device protection in the U.S. Purchasers of the plan get unlimited claims, unlimited claims for accidental or mechanical damage and pay nothing for screen and battery repairs.

22:30You can submit claims through the MyPixel app that arrived within Pixel 10 series. Pixel Care Plus for the regular Pixel 10 costs$9 a month or$179 for a two-year subscription. Different prices apply to different devices, but you can get it for the entire Pixel 8, 9, and 10 series, as well as the Pixel Watch 2, 3, and 4, the Pixel Tablet, the Pixel Fold, and the Fitbit Ace LTE. Versa 4, Charge 6, Sense 2, and Inspire 3.

22:58Huyen Tue Dao: That's a lot of older stuff. So I assume this is if you already are paying for the preferred care, you can transfer it? because I don't think all of those are being sold new. And you have to do these within 60 days of buying. But that's a pretty good plan. It's better than AppleCare in a lot of ways. Yeah, and hopefully it being through the app is a little... I've had to go through preferred care before. And I'm sure that there's reasons why the experience is less than stellar just because they're probably going through another company, yada, yada. I'm hoping that the experience will be better because I think even though they tend to be responsive and Google tends to cover things, Like the process of getting it there feels very like 1999 or something.

23:35Huyen Tue Dao: They're promising that it's better. So hopefully it is. Cross and thank you. Samsung announced a Galaxy event, not unpacked. So this one's packed? I don't know. Anyway, it's happening next Thursday, September 4th on Samsung's YouTube channel, starting at 5.30 a.m. Eastern time. So this is coming from Korea, my guess. The event will discuss multiple devices from, and I quote, premium AI tablets to the newest member of the Galaxy S25 family. And presumably that last one is the Galaxy S25 FE, aka Fan Edition, which is usually cheaper, but you know, with some different specs, usually slightly lower.

24:12Well, a YouTube video from Moore's Law is Dead claims to have some leaked specs on a forthcoming handheld version of the PlayStation. The channel has been reliable lately on PlayStation leaks, so it's worth noting. You should watch the video if you want all the specs, but the short version, is that it's a dockable handheld that could outperform the Xbox ROG Ally X and possibly the PlayStation 5. Based on the specs, the channel estimates it will cost between$399 and$499.

24:44Huyen Tue Dao: And PlayStation fans are super psyched about this. That's insane. If you're seeing headlines about research from SquareX that claims to show how pass keys can be stolen. I highly recommend you read Dan Gooden's article on Ars Technica. He does great work over there, and he pokes some holes in that research. Basically, SquareX compromised a browser with malware and then used that compromised browser to trick users into creating a new pass key that it could get access to. So no existing pass keys could be accessed. It didn't steal a passkey sitting on the computer that it had compromised a browser on.

25:27Huyen Tue Dao: And as Gooden points out, if you compromise a browser in that way, that would let the attacker also compromise TLS encryption and end-to-end encryption in messengers like Signal, not to mention the security of SquareX services themselves. So this is like, hey, if you totally obliviate all security protections, guess what? You can get around other security protections. So it's not surprising. My lack of surprise is showing. Yeah. All right. And finally, a sad goodbye to an early blogging platform pioneer, TypePad. The company, which launched in October 2003, stopped accepting new customers in 2020, but continued to support existing customers.

26:09That support ends September 30th. Existing customers must export their content by then. You can do that in movable type import format, which is compatible with WordPress.

26:20Huyen Tue Dao: I went and checked. I had a TypePad account at some point, but it does not appear to still be around. So I have nothing to export. But yeah, I forgot all about TypePad, which I guess is the problem. But a little piece of history there. Bye-bye. Those are the essentials for today. So let's dive a little deeper. All right. Well, Meta is doubling down on voice and they just bought a startup that brings emotional nuance to speech. Andy Beach has a story. Andy, thanks again for joining us. Hey, Tom. Good to see you again. So this is Meta, a.k.a. the folks who brought us the Metaverse or Will Someday.

27:02Huyen Tue Dao: They're really doing a lot to try to position themselves back into this race, right? They have a lot of AI products. They have opened some of them. I hesitate to say open source because there's some limits to how they're open, but they're opening things. So they really are trying to be scrappy. What does the acquisition of Waveforms AI do for them? Yeah, so this is a kind of interesting AI space, I think, right now. I think there's a lot of people that are really focusing now on what audio can do with AI. And this is this whole world. So Meta has acquired Waveforms AI. It's a small but incredibly well-funded, in part because of who the co-founders are, startup.

27:45It's specializing in the AI voice model capability, but their hook is the ability to really get expressive emotion out of the model. This is a big complaint that I have heard a lot from, particularly like studios where they want to use voice models, but there's no way for them to sort of direct the model to act the way that a voice actor could to get different ranges of emotion. So you're sort of stuck with what you've got or you have to find ways to jump around it. So co-founder Alexis Kanu, who is previously from Meta and OpenAI.

28:22Huyen Tue Dao: I see. Okay. Right. Hence the hence the well-funded part, I think, believes that that they have a way to have a more human like conversation with AI assistants. So it's not even necessarily the studio model that that I know wants it out there, but it's having an AI assistant potentially that seems to be like a more natural human language conversation, including being able to not only emote back to you, but also read your emotions. So if you sound harsh, it may understand that and may be able to adapt to that. Yeah, especially for voice acting kind of situations, that would be important. I think you'd be forgiven for saying, well, I don't know.

29:07Huyen Tue Dao: I've played with chat GPT's advanced voice. It's pretty emotional, but it's also a little bit on rails, right? Like it is always the same kind of emotional reaction, right? It's a very cheery disposition most of the time, honestly. Yeah, and that was the problem when we talked to people who were looking for sort of AI powered voiceover and localization, they were losing the nuance of the actor's capability in the process of doing that virtual dub. And so if you can bring back in something that sort of reads emotion in it and can then relay that as part of either the dub in this case or even just interacting with someone, I think that's going to go a long way towards expanding adoption of voice already.

29:56We have a lot of people that are doing voice work anyway using AI localization or AI assistance. I think this increases the desire and the people who would be willing to adopt it.

30:09Huyen Tue Dao: So what does this matter to Meta? Are they going to get into the business of selling this to the studios, which I presume they could, or is it more about their own products? I think it's a lot for them. So going back to the fact you opened with Metaverse, they want the avatars in Metaverse to have a more human and natural sounding language and voice when you interact with it. They also want the assistants that they're working on that maybe show up in your messenger chat to be there. Also, the WhatsApp chat, WhatsApp has AI in it and could potentially have more sort of natural language emotive responses that come from it.

30:49So I think this is like a horizontal technology for them, meaning they're not they're not doing it just to service media companies. They're doing it to service a bunch of their different products from Instagram to Facebook to the VR experience all across the board.

31:04Huyen Tue Dao: You've got someone who worked on OpenAI 4.0, you know, who has gone out and created this on their own. So there's a good chance that this is very good. But as we've seen with Apple and Siri, for example, something being very good doesn't mean that it continues to grow and become better over time. Right. So that's one concern I have with Meta. What are the other stumbling blocks? Well, I think you call it out there and it's one of these like proof is in the pudding sort of scenarios where it will absolutely have to prove itself. YouTube had a lot of backlash recently where there was low grade voice clones that were really just causing people to basically drop out of videos really, really quickly.

31:51And subsequently, it led to them changing the policies we talked about last month where they curbed the monetization on what we now think of as AI slop. So if this has that higher quality voice characteristics that we're expecting, in theory, then you should see longer engagements with AI voice cloned items, whether it's on an Instagram story or somewhere in Facebook or even on WhatsApp. So if they're getting that higher engagement, that probably is one of the KPIs, one of the proof points that they're looking for that says that this was a good investment.

32:27Huyen Tue Dao: Of course, the dark side is always it makes it another way to fool people until everyone catches on that AI voices can have emotions and react to your emotions. It will be one of those. And I would probably be more worried if it were still an independent company about someone being able to leverage it for bad acting. My hope is with Meta acquiring it, they will have to safeguard against this so that they don't take the reputation hit. And we'll put the sort of the guardrails on this so that bad actors don't have an ability to exploit it. Andy, thank you so much for helping us understand this. If folks want to get your stuff directly, where should they go?

33:10Yeah, absolutely. I write about this and other topics in the media tech and AI space over at Engines of Change.ai.

33:17Huyen Tue Dao: Excellent. Thanks, man. Thank you. Now, I realized when he said bad acting, he was talking about malicious actors. But it made me start to wonder, like, oh, it could also just be bad acting. Yeah. Bad voice acting. I love it. Bad voice acting. Yeah. Well, if you have feedback about anything that gets brought up on the show, get in touch with us on the socials at DTNS Show. We are at DTNS Show on X, Instagram, Threads, Blue Sky, and Mastodon. For TikTok and YouTube, you can find us at Daily Tech News Show.

33:49This episode is brought to you by Capital One. Capital One's tech team isn't just talking about multi-agentic AI. They already deployed one. It's called Chat Concierge and it's simplifying car shopping. Using self-reflection and layered reasoning with live API checks, it doesn't just help buyers find a car they love. It helps schedule a test drive, get pre-approved for financing, and estimate trade-in value. Advanced, intuitive, and deployed. That's how they stack. That's technology at Capital One. Your team just added its 67th AI tool and also your 67th security blind spot. The good news? The Vanta agent works like a GRC engineer in the background,

34:29Huyen Tue Dao: finding every app your team uses, scoring the risk, and drafting fixes for you. Vanta is the platform used by over 16 ,000 fast-moving companies like Ramp, Cursor, and Harvey, who are shaping the future with AI and staying ahead of AI risk. Get started at Vanta.com.

34:49We end every episode of DTNS with some shared wisdom. Today, Damon has a question for Tom.

34:55Huyen Tue Dao: Yes, Damon writes, hey, DTNS crew. Tom has mentioned many times that perplexity doesn't really fit with Apple's culture. I've seen this in many other news articles. What makes the two so different culturally? Maybe Apple acquiring perplexity would be the exact thing that they need now. We'd love to hear your thoughts. Um, well, generally what I mean when I say that is perplexity has a reputation for playing a little fast and loose with privacy, for playing a little fast and loose with legalities like training, uh, for that move fast and break things culture and ask for forgiveness later. And that is not Apple's culture.

35:32Huyen Tue Dao: Uh, Apple is a very cautious culture. They're very privacy forward. They're very user-centric, and those seem to clash. But I get what Damon is saying is, you know, maybe Apple can change them if they hook up.

35:49Apple can fix complexity. Yeah. The troublesome boyfriend that Apple can fix. Anyway, or girlfriend or however, partner. Anyway. All right. Well, what are you thinking about? Do you have a question for Tom? Do you have some insight into a story? Share it with us. Feedback at DailyTechNewsShow.com.

36:06Huyen Tue Dao: Big thanks to Andy Beach and Damon for contributing to today's show. Thank you for being along for Daily Tech News Show. You can keep us in business. Just become a patron. Patreon.com slash DTNS. Takes you a couple minutes. Nothing. Go do it. Talk to you soon.

36:29The DTNS family of podcasts. Helping each other understand. Diamond Club. hopes you have enjoyed this program.

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