Apple Continues to Fight for Encryption in the UK - DTNS 5323

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2:53this is the daily tech news for monday august 3rd 2026 we tell you what you need to know give you important context and try to help each other understand today apple is still fighting a uk request a week in encryption even if apple can't tell you that it's fighting no that's true i'm tom merit let's start with what you need to know with that big story

3:17the financial times reports that apple has filed a legal challenge against the uk's investigatory powers tribunals demand that apple create a way for the tribunal to access encrypted cloud backups made by uk users now you may have heard the uk had rescinded that order because it affected non-UK users in the original way that it made the order. But then it issued a revised what's called a technical capability notice in October. The order requires a company to provide UK security services with access to UK customer data for investigation of terrorism and child sexual abuse. The law requires the access.

4:03How you give the access is not prescribed by the law. So if you have end-to-end encryption, well, company, that's your problem to figure out. You have to find a way to let us access the required information when legally required to do so. Now, this isn't a phishing expedition. The law is very specific about it can only be used for this case. But in order to be able to comply with those cases, a company would have to weaken encryption for everybody. Now, Apple offers end-to-end encryption on a lot of its products, so this can get confusing. This doesn't affect messaging, for example. This is about iCloud.

4:43And you may be thinking, well, wait a minute, I didn't think iCloud had end-to-end encryption. iCloud accounts are not end-to-end encrypted by default. That way, Apple can provide easier account recovery. However, for people who have increased privacy needs, increased security needs, maybe you're a whistleblower. maybe you're a security worker or a journalist or an activist, Apple provides something called advanced data protection for iCloud, which does use end-to-end encryption. It's basically Apple's way of saying like, look, for your average person, you probably don't need end-to-end encryption on iCloud.

5:17And so we're not going to provide it that way. If you lose your password, we can help you. But if you know you do need it and you're willing to manage the key yourself and know that we can't help you decrypt it if you lose that key, then we will provide advanced data protection where you only are the one who can decrypt it, except in the United Kingdom. Because in response to the first notice, Apple ended advanced data protection for UK users, and it's still unavailable. So if you had it, in fact, Nate Langston from Bloomberg, friend of the show, had it. He doesn't have it anymore. Apple is legally restricted from commenting publicly about even the existence of such requirements and complaints.

6:02Apple can't acknowledge that they are being requested to provide this access. They can't acknowledge why they're doing it. All they can do is say, oh, we took away ADP in the UK. Can't tell you why. However, the reason we know that Apple is still fighting this is because a human rights group called Privacy International and another group called Liberty filed similar complaints about this. And the court had to notify them that they had another complaint from Apple that was similar. And so they need to have a hearing to determine how these similar complaints should be handled by the court. Otherwise, we wouldn't even know that Apple was still fighting this, Rob.

6:45So here's what I know. Apple is never going to give into this. I don't think it doesn't matter. We just won't encrypt it and we will keep the ability for you to encrypt with our tools away from the users. And then you figure out what users do with their tools, whether it is an iCloud or whether it's somewhere else. But Apple simply just can't be in a situation to where we're going to give you a backdoor into encryption. That's just an untenable position from the beginning. And I don't think that they will ever take that stance, no matter what the UK says. Yeah. While the law doesn't prescribe a tool, the UK has basically said, like, you can provide end to end encryption to folks.

7:26just make sure we also have a key to it. And like you said, Rob, Apple's like, well, no, that's not encryption. We just won't provide end-to-end encryption for iCloud in that case, because that would be worse. In Apple's opinion, and a lot of security researchers' opinion, it's worse to lead people to think they're secure when there's a key out there that could be misused or accessed by someone who shouldn't have access to it than to just say, look, you don't have the protection. So maybe you don't want to store stuff here. And I think what ends up happening is that, as you said, most people don't, they're not even aware that they can encrypt their stuff.

8:06I don't want to say they don't care, but it's just not something that they think about for iCloud. But this, because it's in the news and people are becoming aware of it, it seems to me like you're going to get more people saying, oh, we just can't use iCloud. Let's just go put our data someplace else where we can encrypt it. And whether we you know, we offshore somewhere else, you know, folks are going to do other things. And I think that what it individually, what it does is get individuals to use other tools more where the encryption is much harder for the UK to, you know, to get around. Because I think right now they're going to get some stuff because people just generally don't encrypt things, but now they're thinking about it.

8:44So they will going forward. Well, that is especially, that's probably not true of the majority of people, honestly, but not the majority, but the folks who are worried about it. They absolutely are going to be in the case of I'm going to use something else. Yeah. So you just pushed everyone whose content you wanted to access off the platform, which I guess doesn't matter if you couldn't access the stuff if it was encrypted. But yeah, I don't think this is a good fight. I don't understand why the UK is being so stubborn about it. I certainly understand why law enforcement agencies would like this to happen.

9:19The FBI tried to make it happen in the United States as well. There have been other places around the world that have tried to make it happen. But, you know, companies and Apple's been one of the leaders on this issue have said, no, that is weakening security for everybody. And it's not a good idea for anyone. I think that the UK government would like to say, we're just going to ban Indian encryption. but there's so many people are like, good luck with that because there are free tools out there that allows us to do this stuff that you don't even know that we've encrypted it. There are tools out there that allow you to look at a file and not even know that the file is encrypted because it hides the encryption from you.

10:00So I, this is a, I don't want to say it's an exercise in futility, but it kind of feels like one. It's like, I don't, the government is not going to ultimately get what they want. They're just going to get a bunch of unencrypted stuff that people don't use because if they want to be encrypted, Well, we're going to use something that you just aren't aware of. Yeah. Yeah. I think you're right about that. And I will be very curious, because we have privacy, international and liberty involved, how the judge rules on the proceedings of these complaints and whether we learn a little more about what is happening with this case in the meantime.

10:37But yeah, this has been dragging on for years and I won't expect it to resolve anytime soon. DTNES is made possible by you, the listener. Thanks to Tim Deputy, Brandon Brooks, Simon Daniel Jerk, Zethyrus. And we got new new patrons, David Technical T. That's that's the new show from Huen Tui Dao and Dr. Nikki. Their Patreon is now backing our Patreon. So we're just, you know, swapping our our money around. uh thanks to the david though and thomas and jadeep and nick and don and horace and russell all within the past week uh brand new patrons we also got raises three raises merthen uh 97 mike and jeremy all said you know what i like what you're doing i want to have back it at a little higher level appreciate that uh and we also uh got new returning patrons ilta and daryl Welcome back into the fold.

11:36Good to have you. I say it every Monday. I love Mondays because we get big, long patron reads. I just love doing it.

12:04bedding, storage, decor, study essentials, all at prices you'll love with fast shipping before move-in day. Get everything you need for back-to-school season. Shop Wayfair.com today. I'm Jake Stouck, co-founder and CEO of Serval. We built Serval to automate the IT work that slows companies down. Onboarding, password resets, access to applications, my laptop stopped working. while employees wait for help, their real work is put on hold. IT desperately wants to automate this work and that's why they need Serval. You just tell Serval what you want to automate in plain English and it's built. No drag and drop workflows, no expensive consultants.

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14:40All right, there's more we need to know today. Let's get to the briefs. Android Headlines published leaked images of the first Google Books coming from Lenovo. Google Books are powered by an Android-based operating system called Aluminum OS, a successor to Chrome OS that can run Android apps natively. The images show two sizes of traditional laptops as well as a 2-in-1 tablet. The laptops have a glow bar on the lid. Google Book branding is on the left palm rest with Lenovo branding on the lid. The larger laptop features USB-A as well as USB-C ports. The 2-in-1 has the glow bar next to the camera and a stylus attached to the top edge.

15:15The Google Book branding is on the keyboard. Lenovo also shows its mouse with a light strip. Other OEMs for the Google book include Acer, Asus, Dell, and HP. You can expect to see Lenovo's official announcement and more from other Google bookmakers at IFAM Berlin September 4th. That is tomorrow. Yeah. Well, no, that's a month from now. I'm sorry. A month from tomorrow. I'm sorry. A month from tomorrow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everybody's excited to see how aluminum OS is going to work, see the designs on these. I guess that's why Android Headlines was so eager and rightly so to publish these images because they shot to the top of Google News.

15:55As people are very interested to see what these things are going to look like. I think one of the biggest surprises for folks is Chromebooks have generally had Google branding on them. Even if they're made by someone else, they're shared branding. And it looks like with Google Books, they're minimizing that branding a little, putting it on that left mouse rest. and letting these look more like just regular old laptops. It could be a Windows laptop from the looks of it, unless you're looking real close. Well, Tom, I am very excited for the arrival of the Google Book. I'm probably going to get one.

16:30In fact, I'm almost certain that I will get one. I don't know which manufacturer I will get one from. What I can say, however, Tom, is that I am not excited at all about the rebranding. I look at Google Book and then I look at Chrome Book. Chromebook has been around for what, 15, 16 years now. People absolutely know what those are. So what Google is saying is that, well, we're creating a new and better Chromebook. So we're going to call it Google book, something that no one has any idea what he is outside of folks who are like you and I, and people who are listening to daily tech news show. And these things are going to be more expensive and they're going to have less Google branding on them.

17:04So, so they're going to be compared not to just the Dell, you know, like, you know, you know, to other Chromebooks They're going to be compared to the Dell XPS because wait, it's Dell. Well, how is this different from an XPS Google book? What is that? That is, oh, it's not running. You know, it's not running windows. It's not running Chrome OS. It's running something else. Those just introduced questions to me that I think that Google, and let me say this, Google has been historically bad with branding and branding decisions. They have, they have made nonsensical decisions about their branding for decades now.

17:33But this one is, it seems to me to be particularly bad because it would be like, you know, it would be like a company like Apple saying, you know what, we're going to make a new MacBook, but we're not going to call it a MacBook. The reason we're not going to call it a MacBook is because it's different than the MacBooks that we had before. It runs an operating system and you type on them like you would a MacBook, but it's different because it has a little bit different hardware in it. So instead of calling it a, you know, instead of calling it a MacBook, we're not going to call it an Apple tab.

18:01Why would you do that? You have so much brand equity in Google book, or excuse me, in Chromebook, I just don't understand why they would make this decision. They could have called the thing, you know, the Chromebook pro the Chromebook ultra, even though they already have one, nobody would have cared. It would just people would have just known what it was. Oh, this is just a new higher powered, better Chromebook that I'm going to get because people are referring to the girl as the Google book, as these are the things that the Chromebook used to be. So if they're doing that, it's like, I don't understand this branding decision at all.

18:32It makes no sense to me. The only quibble I could take with that is Google's a pretty strong brand. So if you aren't going to call it Chromebook anymore, at least Google is something people know what it is and they will go, oh, it's the laptop made by it's the thing from Google. Right. But of course, they're minimizing that by saying, oh, well, we're not going to make you put that branding as prominently. So I totally get what you're saying. I wonder if they could have taken a page from Amazon. Amazon changed the underlying operating system of Fire OS for its TV, you know, little boxes, but they still call it Fire OS.

19:09You know, Google could have kept Chrome OS. Maybe they just don't like it being called Chrome OS. Maybe they want to shove Google into the name and that's why. But yeah, I know it's aluminum OS, but you could have changed it. You could have kept the name, kept it Chrome OS, kept it Chromebook, except If they want to keep Chrome OS around, they don't they so they don't want to call it the same thing. I think they could have kept calling it a Chromebook, just running aluminum OS. And and yes, you and I would have been like, well, that's weird. It's not running Chrome OS. But most people wouldn't have.

19:39So I don't know. I'm with you. I think it's an interesting point. Even Apple has fundamentally changed the operating systems that run on MacBooks and didn't change the name MacBook because everybody already knows what a MacBook is. Google now has to train people on what a Google book is. So this isn't just a Chromebook that literally a decade and a half of people who have recently graduated high school already know what it is. They are already out in the industry. The people who would be the most primed to buy something like this. They don't know what this is. This is a new thing. So to me, it's going to be compared squarely against an XPS or a ThinkPad or, you know, you got that now.

20:18where before it was just, it was, Oh, this is just a newer Chromebook. You didn't have to do that experiment, um, you know, of teaching people what the new thing is. So I, I personally, I just think they missed it so much. So I don't, I don't think they'll pull a Dell and go back and rename new laptops XPS because that was a, that was a, uh, you know, a blunder in branding as well, but it's darn near as bad as that. Something that is very popular has very, very positive sentiment. You just decided that we're going to not do away with the name, but we're going to call the new thing, something that is not that thing that people already know what it is.

20:51Yeah, I think it will probably end up not being a I think Google book will succeed or not based on how good the Google book is for what it costs. But but it's a it's a roadblock, right? It's a roadblock to need to put in their way to get adoption. Yeah. Washington Post reports that it has found 50 instances in multiple U.S. police departments across various states where officers were accused of or charged with misusing license plate reader systems. 46 of those cases involved FLOX systems. Now, as a percentage, 50 is not a lot, but keep in mind, these are only the ones that were discovered. Audit logs revealed the misuse after complaints were made, after an internal investigation was handled.

21:39this was not something that is regularly looked for now flock has a system that departments can use to scan for suspicious query patterns so maybe that's something you need to pressure your local police department to do is like you need to be auditing this for misuse meanwhile the new york times has a report that keeps this all in perspective a security researcher named mark hofer found an unsecured police dashboard in china accessible to the internet called Dynamic Control Platform for Overseas Personnel. It tracked the movement of almost 12 ,000 people, including 700 foreign residents in the city of Zhangjiciao.

22:18Hofer found an entry for himself in there, even though he's never been to that city. It was not clear whether the database was in active use or whether it was just a demo made to show the capabilities of the system. But it did share characteristics with the patent filed by China's Origin Dynamic in 2023. And this is something, if you're in China, you won't be able to do anything about. This is part of the government's plan. Whether this particular system is being used or not, it is emblematic of what happens in China. And you don't get to go to your police department and pressure them not to do it.

22:51That's just the way business is done. So, Tom, I heard someone explaining who now let me be fair here. They do not like flat cameras at all, but I heard them explaining what a flat camera can do. You're taking a camera that can see in the fidelity of a really, really keen eyed eagle. And you're saying, ignore all the things you can see except for license plates. And that's just not how things are going to go. If they can see license plates, they can see other things. If they can, you know, they can literally see everything. And it's just not that hard with AI anymore at this point that you can actually say, I want you to look at this or I want you to look at that or I want you to understand what this is.

23:30So this is something that I don't think that the flock may not be the winner here, but I think that there's going to be cameras everywhere. And these cameras can ultimately look at a lot of things. So there's going to have to be new rules written and new laws created. I think that what's happening here is that, hey, you are doing some things that are against the law. As it says, some officers have actually been charged for doing these things. But this is the area we're in now. When you have a camera and you just pointed at stuff that's driving by, it can look at an awful lot of things and you can.

24:02Yeah, it can look at an awful lot of things. And I think it's important, you know, so people don't get confused. The 50 instances were for using the license plate functionality of these cameras, whether they were Flock or not. I think, Rob, what you're rightly pointing out is you need to make sure that we put in rules to prevent misuse now because the capabilities of these cameras are not going to get less over time, right? They're going to get more. And so now is the time to go in and say, hey, there have been examples of police misusing just the license plate part of this to look for people that they didn't have a criminal investigation on.

24:45There needs to be a regular audit of that behavior to dissuade other officers from trying it, to make sure that bad behavior gets caught. And that is happening at some police departments, but not others. That's really what the Washington Post article is pointing out is there isn't a unified policy. There isn't a standard. You need to have that standard now. So you start looking for that misbehavior now so that these cameras can be used to catch criminals. And we feel reassured that there is a system in place to stop the misuse of them. And that way, when the cameras do become more functional, you do have a system where you can say like, all right, we need to apply the audit system to that as well.

25:30And we don't end up living in a situation where, hey, you know what? 12 ,000 people can be tracked across a city in China and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. If you're there, you're just going to have to put up with it. Yeah, I see a time where there's going to be basically some type of court where folks, you know, generally the authorities are going to go to the court and say, hey, we have these cameras set up to track license plate or to track people doing, you know, speeding or doing whatever it is that they have set those cameras up for. But this thing happened. We know we have some data here.

26:00Can we use this to go look for other things? And that's just going to I think you're going to have a quick turnaround court to see whether or not that is something that a judge will allow or not. I see a day where that's coming. I mean, I think that is already happening. In fact, if law enforcement officers listening can clarify, like how much of what Rob just described is already part of the system and how much needs to be created, feedback at dailytechnewsshow.com. Reviews are out for the new Razor Blade 16 and 18 gaming laptops. The new 16 includes Intel's Panther Lake Base Core Ultra 9386H, an excellent an OLED screen and great chassis design.

26:37It also starts at$2399, but will run$4 ,900 if you want the NVIDIA RTX 5090 GPU. The 18 is big at seven pounds, but it's still two pounds lighter than the Alienware 18 Area 51 and a pound less than the Lenovo Legion 9i Gen 10. Its dual-mode display can do 4K up to 240 hertz or 1920 at 440 hertz. It's based on the Intel Core Ultra 9 290HX Plus CPU and can be configured with NVIDIA's RTX 5090 graphics. It starts at$3 ,500 and runs$5 ,400 with the 5090 and two terabytes of storage. Yeah, I think the storage is what's causing the prices to shoot up when you add the 2090 or the 5090 because I was trying to play with these configurations and every time I'd switch it to the 5090, it'd shoot up to that$5 ,400 price.

27:27And then I'd say, well, what if I only want one terabyte? And as soon as I chose one terabyte, it's like oh we've reconfigured you with a a cheaper graphics card it's like they they don't want to sell you the 5090 configuration unless you're buying the two terabytes of storage and as we all know storage is pretty pricey these days uh so yeah these these prices are eye-watering gaming laptops are always eye-watering but but the uh the the you need some visine folks if you want to buy a gaming laptop these days that's what i'm trying to say i'm looking at these and you know what ramageddon is affecting everything it's definitely affecting these things here but these things cost a crib i mean these are these are some of the most expensive gaming laptops i've ever seen so uh i mean you kind of know what you're getting if you're getting one of these but man these things cost an awful lot it probably would have me rethinking hey i wonder if i just blow what i have away and maybe just reinstall the operating system clean up some things take a can of, you know, you know, can of a compressed air spray off the dust inside the case and see if I can get what I already have to work a little better.

28:29Cause these things are extremely expensive. Yeah. Every review I read of these were positive about the performance. Some of them were, were picking on little bits here and there. Obviously they are huge, but they are meant to be huge. And as far as gaming laptops go, these are actually slightly smaller than some of the other gaming laptops like you were talking about but everyone agrees that they are ridiculously expensive uh and and some folks i think it was uh maybe pc gamer was saying you can find equivalent performance for cheaper you might be a little heavier but but you can get it for cheaper at other places uh but man yeah they uh this these are the times we live on well folks uh the times we live in include live streams as well if you enjoy daily tech news show and you want to catch us live i do office hours during the week where i'll just go live and stream and chat with folks uh and talk about stuff read emails and that sort of thing thursdays we do we do a regular live stream where we kind of recap all the top tech stories of the week rob's on there with me sarah lane's on there with me uh so if you want to catch those live streams uh subscribe to youtube that's the easiest way to get them youtube.com daily tech news show

29:53I'm Jake Stouck, co-founder and CEO of Serval. We built Serval to automate the IT work that slows companies down. Onboarding, password resets, access to applications, my laptop stopped working. While employees wait for help, their real work is put on hold. IT desperately wants to automate this work, and that's why they need Serval. You just tell Serval what you want to automate in plain English, and it's built. No drag-and-drop workflows, no expensive consultants. Employees get unblocked and IT teams go from drowning in tickets to building what actually matters. With Serval, IT becomes the AI engine powering the entire company.

30:32This is a new way to run IT. We guarantee you'll automate 50 % of all tickets and we'll prove it to you in a free four-week pilot. Go to serval.com slash tickets. That's S-E-R-V-A-L dot com slash tickets.

30:53Your team just added its 67th AI tool and also your 67th security blind spot. The good news? The Vanta agent works like a GRC engineer in the background, finding every app your team uses, scoring the risk, and drafting fixes for you. Vanta is the platform used by over 16 ,000 fast-moving companies like Ramp, Cursor, and Harvey, who are shaping the future with AI and staying ahead of AI risk. Get started at Vanta.com.

31:23All right, let's do the quick headlines. These are going to make people look smart. Google announced Friday that it was removing a feature that lets you generate images in Google Earth by typing a text prompt for any location. Google said people were misusing the feature to violate policies. I can't believe that you didn't see that one coming, Google. I kind of would have guessed that people were going to miss it. This is why we can't have nice things. There are some legitimate uses that they were showing off in their post about this of like, yeah, you can do some really cool things as a as a geoscientist.

31:55And yeah, that's not what the public was going to do with it. Yeah, I think we all are not surprised. Alibaba released Quinn 3.8 Max, its new model that ranks higher on some benchmarks than Kimmy Key 3 from Moonshot. Kimmy K3 from Moonshot. But the open weights for Quinn 3.8 Max will be released next week. DeepSeek released its V4 Flash model, which costs about three cents per test, compared to 86 cents for Kimmy K3,$1.86 for GPOT 5.6 Sol, and$3.15 for Fable 5. Yeah, man. Pretty cheap. Yeah, just shows how expensive these things are to run these days. U.S. government says it has created a voluntary framework for evaluating advanced large language models.

32:39This is the thing everybody's wondering about, like what kind of approvals, what kind of delays, what kind of restrictions are going to be a part of this framework. The government will meet to discuss it with companies on Tuesday. They didn't release any of those details yet. I wonder what they mean by voluntary. I wonder what voluntary means in this situation. Yeah, I know it's a good question because voluntary means this won't be the law. But what is the effective like, but if you don't do it, here are the consequences. Right. Reuters reported Friday that its sources say OpenAI has found other instances where LLMs broke out of guardrails, though it was unclear how many.

33:17Microsoft updated its Xbox Store page to indicate the price increases for European and UK users. We knew the US price increases and we knew that European and UK users were going to have to pay more. It wasn't clear how much until now. Now, EU shoppers will pay between 150 to 200 euros more for their Xbox consoles, and UK user prices go up by 130 to 170 pounds. Google canceled its AI Studio app it had announced in May and said the features for that app will be rolled into Gemini instead. AI Studio had more than 800 ,000 pre-orders across iOS and Android. Look at Google, maybe a little late in the game.

33:57Maybe we shouldn't make you download a new app for every single thing we want to do. Thanks to RW and Ash for noting this next one on our subreddit. MacBook Airs facing longer delivery times because of a shortage in memory. And according to Mark Gurman from Bloomberg, Apple prioritizing sales of the 14-inch MacBook Pro because they're going to refresh that model in a few months. I won't be shocked if Ramageddon is time's word of the year. Yeah, it might be. Samsung has begun to remove apps from its smart TVs that shared internet connections in a way that can be used for criminal activities. The practice called ResProxy for residential proxy connections was banned by LG last month on its TVs.

34:41Yeah, ResProxy. It's another buzzword. I don't know if it'll be word of the year, but that's something to put in your lexicon. The Arch Linux project is temporarily disabling adoption of Arch user repository packages, AURs, quote, due to the current influx of malicious package adoptions. This follows an attack on AUR in June as well. So these things keep coming fast and furious. waymo may no longer send his cars to charge overnight in a facility in santa monica california after a judge granted a preliminary injunction in a public nuisance lawsuit over the noise caused by the cars moving in and out of the facility particularly the beeping noise made while cars back out of spaces so it probably sounded a lot like an amazon factory or amazon warehouse where all the trucks are backing up and all you hear is the beep beep beep well when i first saw this headline i'm like how much noise could charging make these you know charging is silent then i'm like and then i saw it was traffic i'm like well i guess the car is going in and out there's a lot of road noise then i read about the back off like oh the safety thing they have to do just in case uh is is noisy so yeah maybe they can redesign it so they don't have to back out i don't know uh finally australian members of parliament uh are going to introduce a bill that That would impose a 2.5 % tax on any platform that makes more than$250 million Australian in digital advertising revenue in a year.

36:10If they do it from search or social media, if you're that big, you make that much money in your search or social media, you get taxed 2.5 % unless you agree to pay news publishers to link to news. This is a way to try to just force companies to pay news publishers. You going to pay a tax or you going to pay them directly? But the thing is, you're going to pay. At least that's what that's what they're hoping is. That's what Australia is trying to make happen. You want to see what the what the publishers have to say about. Well, folks, we end every episode of DTNest with some shared perspectives.

36:45Today, Andre noticed something in the video version of DTNest last Monday. Yeah. So I was wearing if you watch the video, I had my lights off and was wearing sunglasses. And as I explained at the top of the show Monday, I was trying to combat jet lag ahead of a trip to Japan. Andre saw that and wrote, it looked like Tom turned into a hacker from some 90s thriller movie. He was about to hack into the mainframe and get the secrets to nuclear submarines. I kind of like that. That is one of the more flattering descriptions of what I did on Monday. Yeah, I thought you had cataract surgery or something like that because you're wearing the big goggles.

37:25But here's the question, though. Why do all the hackers work in the dark? Is it being a well-lit work area? Is that somehow going against the hacker ethos? I don't know. It's a it's a it's a filmic metaphor that these are, you know, these are dark individuals. So they got to they got to signal that by showing them in a dark location, I guess, because, yeah, I've met some actual hackers and I don't think I've ever met a malicious hacker. But, you know, people who do that sort of thing on the white hat side, maybe because they're white hats, they work in the light, but they all worked in perfectly normally lit areas.

38:00I got to ask the question, Tom, did it work? Did you did you did you not have jet lag? I definitely had way less jet lag than I ever have before going to that part of the world with that big of a time difference. And I did it on the way home. And I have I got back 11 a.m. yesterday. I should be wrecked. I feel like a little weird. I'm going to do a whole segment on this or maybe even a whole episode with Dr. Nikki. I'm also wanting to talk to a pilot friend of ours about how they deal with jet lag. So I'm definitely going to talk to Dr. Nikki about time shifter because she's the one who recommended it.

38:42And there's more to come on this in the future. So stay tuned. Definitely looking to that episode. So folks, we definitely want to know what you're thinking about. So if you've got some feedback into a story, please share it with us at feedback at dailytechnewshow.com. Big thanks to Andre for contributing to today's show. Thank you for being along for Daily Tech News Show. You're the folks who keep us in business. So become a patron if you haven't already. We got all those new perks to take advantage of. Patreon.com slash DTNS.

39:20The DTNS family of podcasts. Helping each other understand. Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this program.

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