The Jellyfish Deserves a Nobel Prize - DTNS WEEKEND

0:00Hey, I'm Pablo Torre, host of Pablo Torre Finds Out, and I have chased down a lot of strange stories, but nothing quite like what's inside a McDonald's quarter pounder with cheese. 100 % fresh beef, cooked right when you order it, hand-topped onions plus cheese and pickles in every bite, and right now, you can get one with medium fries and a drink for just$8, only at McDonald's. For a limited time only, prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska, and California. And for delivery, fresh beef not available in Alaska and Hawaii. Offer not valid for delivery. Grainger knows if you're a procurement manager at an industrial manufacturing facility, you're balancing inventory and budget while sourcing critical supplies across the operation.

0:47Too much inventory? Cost climb. Too little? Production slows. Grainger's$2 billion in on-hand inventory helps you get what you need when you need it, so you can help keep budgets balanced and lines moving. Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com, or just stop by. Grainger, for the ones who get it done. Still waiting in line? Again? That's time you'll never get back. Save time and money with Stamps.com. Over 4 million businesses have skipped the line with Stamps.com. Join them to save up to 90 % off carrier rates from your computer or phone right now. Print postage for certified mail, registered mail, and packages in seconds.

1:28Then schedule a pickup right from your home or office. For a limited time, go to stamps.com and use code podcast for a free welcome gift. Taxes and fees apply. This episode is brought to you by Okta, helping you secure and govern AI identity by bringing agents out of the shadows. AI agents are changing how work gets done. They're fast, they're capable, and more of them are showing up inside companies right now. That's exciting. But when agents operate unseen in the dark, they create massive security blind spots. Okta shines a light on all of your agents so you can stay secure. Whether your teams are building agents or bringing them in, Okta gives you a clear way to answer four simple questions.

2:10Where are my agents? What can they do? What are they doing? And how do I respond if they go rogue? With that visibility, you can govern each agent's identity, trace their behavior, and even hit an instant kill switch. Bring AI agents out of the shadows. Okta secures AI. Learn more at Okta.com. That's O-K-T-A dot com.

2:39Welcome to the DTNS Weekend Edition. greatly greatly gratefully provided to you and thanks for your support of this show and this week we've got a good one we're welcoming back dr nikki welcome back to the show i'm certainly grateful to be here in any case i am always grateful to have you uh the nobel prizes were given out last month uh the 2026 nobel prize in physiology or medicine that there that's not two categories it's one category uh went to the team who discovered optogenetics carl disaroth peter gegaman george nagel uh and dr nikki thinks it should have gone to a jellyfish instead why why do you think a jellyfish should have gotten this instead of these three renowned scientists i think no i mean they do deserve it i just wanted to talk about jellyfish let's be honest but there's a very lot of background that we need to do before we get to the jellyfish i'll leave that to the end Ah, yes.

3:39The jellyfish at the end of this book, one of my favorite golden books. We should probably talk about what even is optogenetics first. Yes, let's start there. Good idea. All right. So think about it as a tool that works on the molecular level of your cells. It's basically like a switch that is light activated. Text. Ah, okay. Opto. And it lets you turn certain neurons on and off or certain cells using the light. And that sounds really sci-fi, but it's actually a very widespread biological technique that's been in the works since the 1970s. So this is not something where people can go around and shine a light on you and turn you off, thank goodness.

4:21Unless they have a friend who's a genetic engineer. So tell me more about the 70s, because I was alive then, but I don't remember this. That was when things were like glowing and neon. Yeah. Lots of lava lamps and orange shag carpets and optogenetics. Exactly. Well, not quite. But in the 70s, researchers, and this is like way before they knew they were going to get the Nobel Prize for it. But researchers were trying to understand how does a single cell algae that's just swimming around living its life, how does it know how to swim towards a light source? and they realized that this algae produces proteins that are regulating the flow of the electric charge across the cell membrane, basically allowing it to turn on, turn off, move around in response to visible light.

5:14And these proteins, they found out, and I, you know, I'm summarizing this, but this was like decades of somebody's research. These proteins were produced by a bunch of different genes that we're just going to call opsin genes. There's rhodopsin and channel rhodopsin. We don't need to get into that unless you take my intro to neuroscience course, but we're calling them opsin genes. And more importantly, getting even more precise, we realized that one of these proteins acts as a specific component for a membrane pump. So imagine you're on the surface of a cell membrane and there's basically a well, a hole that goes through the membrane that lets ions in and out.

5:53That's the pump. And one of the proteins, that's the stone in this well is activated by light and by shining a light on it you either open or close it letting ions in and out and basically turning the cell on or turning it off so basically shine the light turns on pump turns on cell turns on basically pretty simple but these are not the people who won the nobel prize wait that's not the the nobel prize stuff that's just the foundation upon which they stood yeah uh so so what did the nobel prize people fill in what What was their part of this? So they discovered this and everyone was like, okay, that's neat.

6:29And then nothing happened for about 30 years. Well, I guess we're done here, they thought. Calgy, how cool. But in 2005, about 30 years later, OptogenX was coined because this team who got the Nobel Prize in part, building up to this, of course, over time, realized that you could take these Opsin genes and use gene editing to insert these specific light-activated switches into specific cells. And that has been a really big challenge for neuroscience to better understand the brain, to be able to turn on and turn off certain cells independently, like not all of them at once, to say, okay, this is what happens a lot in neuroscience.

7:10If I break this, what happens? If I turn this off, what else turns off? So that was a really, really big turning point. And now with this technology, you could basically trigger a nerve signal in a specific neuron just by shining a light onto it. And you can even upscale this. So let's say you have a neuron in a Petri dish. They've managed then, and this was all about the 2005 finding, to do it in a live mouse's brain. So the technology came pretty far from this single-cell algae organism. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm already imagining – well, I'm also – I'm imagining two things. One is pranks that we turn people's neurons off.

7:54So we don't do this in people. Let's be very clear. That's illegal, Tom. But what would you responsibly as a scientist use this technology for? So really, you can do so much with this. But with optogenetics, you can make a lot of the mysteries of the brain visible to our eyes. So you can, for example, trigger a memory and see what neurons are physically lighting up in real time in response to that. How fast are they lighting up? What other neurons are they connecting to? What kind of signals is it sending in other parts of the brain? And theoretically, you could apply this to every single nerve connection in the body.

8:30You could look at what is the network for pain, for smelling, for vision, for fear. and you name it, you could kind of find what's going on in these connections. And until then, it's this has been I mean, it still is, but it's a really big mystery, right, of what's connecting to what the brain is really complicated. And so letting us see it is really giving us a much better understanding of all these different kinds of networks. And really, that's why they should go to jellyfish. Wait, what? Why are you obsessed with jellyfish? There was no jellyfish on the stage accepting this Nobel Prize. Okay.

9:09So I mentioned you are able to see these light connections, right? But opsins, the opsins genes, they're the receiver. They're the one that's getting the light in and turning things on or off. Right. That's the little hole with the stone. The little hole in the well. Yeah, yeah. Try to give it like a visual image. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Usually, we also have an emitter, something that emits light that physically lights these things up so we can see them under the microscope. And that is usually GFP or green fluorescent protein. So basically what scientists did is when using opsins to activate cells with light by, you know, making genetic changes in this whole packet of genetic changes, they also threw in a light like an L in a little diode like you would do.

9:52Yeah, they're not like outside the cell with a flashlight. That light has to be built in somehow. No, no, no. OK, to activate, they actually are using light through various means. and like you really have a mouse with a hat with a little hole in its skull and a little light going in but if well yeah science if you want to see the neurons light up they can be genetically modified to emit fluorescent light by by genetically adding gfp into this whole change so that's how you know that they're active that yeah that's how you know that it's actually responding. So the little monkey de Luffy mouse with his straw hat with a hole in it, you can then see like the neuron.

10:35Oh, wow. That's amazing. Because you can actually put a microscope. I mean, that's a whole different segment. But yeah, you can look at a live brain and see what's lighting up. With ChatGPT, you can do more than get answers. You can get things done. Whether you're leading a big project, planning an elaborate trip, or trying to balance work and life, ChatGPT can help. Give it a goal, plus things like files, notes, or project plans, and it can help you build a templated deck, develop a trip itinerary with daily updates, or create a prioritized schedule so you can spend less energy sorting out the details and more on bringing your biggest ideas to life.

11:12Get started at chatgpt.com.

11:18Mod.com is changing the way people battle excessive fatigue. Ever hit a wall in the middle of the day and a third coffee just doesn't do it anymore? Here's what's actually happening. Coffee only briefly blocks adenosine, the chemical that tires you out. When it stops working, your system is flooded and you crash. Modafinil is a prescription treatment that works in a completely different way. Modafinil works by stimulating multiple receptors in the brain associated with wakefulness, including dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine, histamine, glutamate, and orexin. It's a more complete solution that gives you 10 to 12 hours of steady focus and energy.

12:01To learn more, go to mod.com. Fill out your intake form, meet with a licensed provider, and if approved, Mod Alert ships straight to your door. Go to mod.com to get started. That's M-O-D dot com. This is the story of the one. As a shipping manager, he's running the dock, stocking supplies, and making sure every order goes out on time. And Grainger helps him stay prepared. From shipping supplies to PPE to hand tools, he counts on Grainger to keep products moving and trucks rolling. So his operation runs smoothly, no matter the shift. Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com, or just stop by Grainger.

12:43For the ones who get it done.

12:50As a fitness coach, my active psoriatic arthritis can slow me down. With SkyRizzy, Rizzen Kizumab RZA, I'm treating my skin and joint symptoms so I can keep moving. SkyRizzy, a prescription-only injection for adults, helps me move with less joint pain, stiffness, swelling, and fatigue. And for those who have plaque psoriasis, 90 % clearer skin is possible. With SkyRizzy, there's no daily dosing. It's just four doses a year after two starter doses. Nothing is everything. Serious allergic reactions, increased infections, or lower ability to fight them may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis.

13:24Tell your doctor about any flu-like symptoms or vaccines. Thanks to SkyRizzy, there's nothing like clearer skin and better movement. And that means everything. Because nothing is everything. Ask your doctor about SkyRizzy. Visit SkyRizzy.com or call 1-866-SKY-Rizzy to learn more.

14:09You use it while you're awake. 20 minutes a day, while the coffee brews, while you set your fantasy lineup. An FDA-cleared prescription device for primary snoring and mild obstructive sleep apnea. Then you go to bed like a person. Nothing strapped on, nothing plugged in. In clinical studies, 90 % of patients saw a reduction in snoring. No sleep study required. Prescribed online, shipped to your door. Excite OSA at springsleep.com slash sleep20. Code sleep20 for 20 % off. Excite OSA is an FDA-cleared prescription-only device for primary snoring and mild obstructive sleep apnea. Not for everyone.

14:55Individual results vary. Risks and benefits at springsleep.com. And guess what GFP comes from? I'm going to guess jellyfish. It's jellyfish. So back in, I think the 90s or a little bit before, someone realized jellyfish fluoresce. Can we take whatever is making the fluoresce and use it for whatever, another basic science? And a bunch of scientists worked on purifying proteins from jellyfish and they sequenced the gene. You can have it in all the colors of the rainbow now and it's very widely used in biomedical applications. So all this to say, without jellyfish, you would have a lot harder time seeing all these beautiful neural networks.

15:38And I think they deserve a piece of the Nobel Prize as well. Well, there you go, folks. Nobel Committee, please consider the humble jellyfish. What is the takeaway message of this? I like that we were able to focus in on one of these prizes and explain the technology behind it. But, you know, what should we take away from the recognition that was given to this discovery? I mean, I think the discovery definitely deserved it. We're making so many discoveries based on optogenetics, and we're learning a lot about the brain. But for me, really what this underlies is that basic science is extremely important because all of the research that happened leading up to optogenetics was basic science that nobody knew what the application was going to be.

16:26They just thought this could be really interesting. And for decades, right? Like 50 years at least. And if you add on GFP to the story, that's a whole nother like 30 years where they were just like jellyfish are neat. I wonder what we can do with them. Yeah. But the kind of work that these researchers were doing, if you imagine at the time, the amount of resources it takes to develop this like genetic modification of inserting this light protein, this light activated protein into cells. It's so high risk and nobody thought it was going to work. and that costs a lot of money, especially when you're working with mice, that would not be able to be done in the current funding climate in the U.S.

17:11So I mean, I'm stretching, right? But I think in the current climate, you would not really have this discovery. Or more difficult, certainly, to get the funding to do it. Yeah, to find funding to do something that's high risk and high reward if you figure it out. Right, because what's the point of figuring out why an algae moves towards light? The practical application of that might be to clean up algae, I guess, or something like that is what you'd have to do. You can't know about these things when you're discovering them. Yeah, it would send you down the wrong road. Granted, you shouldn't give funding to science that has no basis to it, but it doesn't have to have like, well, what is that going to be good for?

17:53You know, it's like, oh, but it's going to advance our understanding is what it's going to be good for. And advancing understanding is what leads you to go, oh, because the algae moves to there. I bet we could then use that to fire neurons. Let's use that principle. Let's take the jellyfish protein. Let's put it in there. Now we can study the brain. Now we understand how the brain works. And now we can start to understand what causes Parkinson's or what causes brain, you know. And using it to try and reestablish vision in people who have vision defects. Perfect. To try and look at the pathway from the retina and see where the interruption is.

18:31So that is one very physical application. Like an actual direct practical benefit that the people studying the algae didn't foresee. Could never have foreseen. Yeah, but we wouldn't be able to get there by this route otherwise. otherwise uh and once you're once you're able to map the brain there's so many things that you could do yeah yeah and and to be able to take these kind of risks you have to have people take risks on you and just be like okay we're gonna fund basic research and the we already have science that proves that the payoff is i think eight times the investment for basic research right so attacking that is detrimental to everybody but we know this i talk about it all the time on the show Yeah.

19:15Well, thank you, Dr. Niki, for helping us understand this a little better. It's wonderful research with really fascinating. And I'm glad that we are finally beginning the campaign to give the jellyfish its due. Well, thank you for your glowing review. If you want to find me somewhere, I'm at Nicole Ackerman's on everything. And also come listen to Technical Tea at technicaltea.show. Myself and Huan Seidao, we talk about science and tech and silly topics. But we try to be insightful and serious and fun. And what do we talk about? Leeches and vampires and what our life is like. What your day is like.

19:59That episode's great. Yeah. GFP is going to come up again because we're doing biohacking in our next episode. And there's got to be someone who's glowing in the dark with jellyfish. I'm not sure. Well, fantastic. Go check it out. It's technicaltea.show, right? Correct. Correct. You will have a good time and end up learning something without even realizing it. You'll just be like, whoa, that's amazing. Thank you, Dr. Nikki. Good seeing you, Tom. And thank you everybody for supporting the show at patreon.com slash DTNS. Somebody tell Helene Jin from Lacerra when we were talking about jellyfish. Maybe she'll enjoy this episode.

20:38You will get all of our episodes without ads if you're a patron. Go sign up. Patreon.com slash DTNS. Talk to you soon.

20:55the dtns family of podcasts helping each other understand diamond club hopes you have enjoyed this broker in the market to buy a new car you are not alone navy federal credit union members have a helping hand, technically a helping globe, a mission assistant whose mission is guiding you through your car buying journey, offering low rates that can save you more. Your mission assistant helps you budget, estimate your payment, and understand your terms so you roll into the dealership ready to negotiate on your terms. Mission Assist, everything you need to buy a car all rolled into one. Navy Federal Credit Union, our members are the mission.

21:35Navy Federal is insured by NCUA, credit and collateral subject to approval. Business is booming. Is your fulfillment ready for peak season? Switch to ShipStation now and handle more volume with confidence when it counts. ShipStation connects Shopify, Amazon, TikTok Shop, and over 200 more integrations with one platform that does it all. You can manage orders, sync inventory, track returns, all automatically. Everything your operation needs all in one place. Right now, qualified shippers get a real dedicated person to get you set up and switched over for free. So when peak season hits, you're ready to go.

22:06Switch today at ShipStation.com code AUDIO. Thank you.