The Data Center Debates - DTNS 5390

0:00When you're running a growing business, the right systems can unlock your full sales potential and make fulfilling every order effortless. Switch to ShipStation before peak season so you're prepped and ready before the rush hits. ShipStation connects Shopify, Amazon, TikTok Shop, and over 200 more marketplaces with one platform that does it all. You can manage orders, sync inventory, track returns, all automatically. Everything your operation needs, all in one place. Upgrade your shipping operations to stress-proof your biggest sales days and capture every bit of potential revenue. Go to ShipStation.com and use code AUDIO and get 30 days free.

0:30Do you snore? Did somebody hand you a CPAP and did you quietly stop using it? The mask that never quite seals, the hose tugging at you every time you roll over, a machine sitting abandoned in a closet? Excite OSA works a different way. It treats a root cause instead of managing the noise, and you use it while you're awake. 20 minutes a day, while the coffee brews, while you set your fantasy lineup. an FDA-cleared prescription device for primary snoring and mild obstructive sleep apnea. Then you go to bed like a person. Nothing strapped on, nothing plugged in. In clinical studies, 90 % of patients saw a reduction in snoring.

1:14No sleep study required. Prescribed online, shipped to your door. ExciteOSA at springsleep.com slash sleep20. Code sleep20 for 20 % off. Excite OSA is an FDA-cleared, prescription-only device for primary snoring and mild obstructive sleep apnea. Not for everyone. Individual results vary. Risks and benefits at springsleep.com. Grainger knows. If you're a procurement manager at an industrial manufacturing facility, you're balancing inventory and budget while sourcing critical supplies across the operation. Too much inventory? Costs climb. Too little? Production slows.

2:14This episode is brought to you by Okta, helping you secure and govern AI identity by bringing agents out of the shadows. AI agents are changing how work gets done. They're fast, they're capable, and more of them are showing up inside companies right now. That's exciting. But when agents operate unseen in the dark, they create massive security blind spots. Okta shines a light on all of your agents so you can stay secure. Whether your teams are building agents or bringing them in, Okta gives you a clear way to answer four simple questions. Where are my agents? What can they do? What are they doing?

2:49And how do I respond if they go rogue? With that visibility, you can govern each agent's identity, trace their behavior, and even hit an instant kill switch. Bring AI agents out of the shadows. Okta secures AI. Learn more at Okta.com. That's O-K-T-A dot com.

3:12Welcome to the Daily Tech News Show's Big Tech Question, where we look at the tech news this week and ask, What does that mean? I'm Tom Merritt, and this week, is the tech bubble about to pop? Should Google make a version of search without AI just for the schools? And Robert Heron is here to give us some tips if you need to get a new television. But first, today's tech news. Here's Sarah Lane and Jason Howell. Very Russian of you, Tom. OpenAI introduced GPT-6 Cyber, which developed exploits for 948 Linux kernel vulnerabilities and found 81 previously unknown high-severity Firefox flaws. OpenAI submitted 304 critical Linux findings with proposed patches.

4:01Mozilla fixed multiple Firefox issues. The model is initially limited to approved Daybreak Red customers and rated critical under OpenAI's safety framework. Hmm. Then in another part of the AI world, Thinking Machines, which is the AI startup founded by former open AI CTO Mira Mirati, has now released Inkling 2 Small, which it says is now the strongest open weight model from a Western company. It takes text and images, of course, lets you adjust how long it thinks. Roughly matches, apparently, Google's Gemini 3.8 flash performance on artificial analysis index of intelligence or intelligence index for about a sixth of the cost per task.

4:44But the weights aren't out quite yet. For now, it's only available through the company's Tinker program with an Apache 2.0 open source release planned after some outside safety testing is done. The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration, FAA, is replacing air traffic control systems that still rely on floppy disks. Four systems dating to the 1980s, used at more than 400 facilities, will now use the Enterprise Information Display System, which puts weather, flight alerts, equipment updates, and other information all in one place. The first installations include airports in Atlantic City, Nashville, and Rochester, plus processing hubs in Atlanta and Salt Lake City.

5:30The FAA plans to reach 430 sites by the end of 2028, so slow rollout. Oh, but no, don't get rid of the floppy disks. That makes me a little sad. Or maybe do. Or maybe do. Yeah, actually, honestly, it's a good idea. Roku is now officially part of Fox as the acquisition is now complete. and its stock has stopped trading on the NASDAQ as well, so you won't see it there. Roku joins Tubi and Fox One in a new division called Fox Digital Platforms, which is co-chaired by Roku founder Anthony Wood. Wood also gets a seat on Fox's board. Fox says Roku will stay open to every content partner and expects$400 million in cost savings within two years.

6:12Warby Parker says pre-orders for its first Intelligent Eyewear collection open on November 12th with deliveries in time for holiday purchases. But this apparently got ahead of Google's launch announcement. The camera-equipped glasses run an audio-focused version of Android XR and offer access to Gemini. No pricing's been announced. Unclear whether Google's other eyewear partner, that's Gentle Monster, will open orders on the same day. I'll be paying attention to that one. Elon Musk posted on X that Tesla will wind down Cybertruck production at its Texas Gigafactory around the middle of next year to make room for more CyberCab robo-taxis.

6:56Now, he didn't say whether the truck would be built anywhere else. The Cybertruck line was built for 250 ,000 trucks a year, but Cox Automotive estimates Tesla sold about 11 ,600 in the first nine months of this year. Did not sell that many Cybertrucks. Maybe because they're ugly, but that's just my opinion. Founder of scientific paper-checking startup Blacklike Derek Kaufman found roughly 100 ,000 words and phrases the iPhone keyboard generally won't autocomplete or recognize through swipe typing. If you use iOS, you are familiar with this. Most entries involve offensive language, drugs, sex, violence.

7:39But political phrases also appear as well. Apple says it avoids inappropriate suggestions and allows manual typing if you want to autocorrect the autocorrect, but it hasn't explained the political exclusions. All right, Sarah, Enough. And that is the name of a US startup. Enough. It's launched a Kickstarter for the Enough phone. 5.3 inch even better than nothing yes exactly i know this is a weird world we live in in naming conventions of smartphones but it's about the size of an iphone 13 mini it has a removable battery with four screws holding it into place a micro sd slot your choice of android 17 or a stripped down dumb phone style os and if you want to get in on the action this is kickstarter so you pledges start at$399, right around$400.

8:28Retail plan for$600. But only a non-working mock-up exists right now. Prototypes are expected in December and shipping targets May 2027, but it's Kickstarter. So, you know, we'll see. A decade-old flaw nicknamed, and I'm going to say it this way, asterisk hole, but you get what I mean, lets attackers bypass SSH authentication on certain Linux configurations, including OpenSSH and Musel, including Alpine. When several accounts conditions align, entering more than 256 password characters grants access in one attempt. Alpine and OpenSSH have patches available, but other configured systems may also have issues.

9:16hmm razors hammerhead v3 chroma are wired earbuds that plug in via usbc aimed mostly at mobile gamers and yes you know that because they have customizable rgb lighting to prove it they also have active noise cancellation an inline microphone with the volume and playback controls a right angle plug which is kind of nice it stays out of the way when you hold your phone sideways because you're gaming on pc they support thx 7.1 surround sound somehow and they can be found for $80 on the Razer site as well as Amazon. Wired headphones are back. Yay. If Razer's there, they're definitely a thing. DTNAS Live made possible by all of you.

9:58All of you. Your head, your arms, your feet, every part of you. Don't forget the elbow. Your elbows, every single part of every single one of you. Big thanks to the elbows of Mike Akins, Norm Fazekas, Chris Allen, and Sarith. And welcome back returning patron, Donna. Everybody give Donna a big round of applause.

10:23With ChatGPT, you can do more than get answers. You can get things done. Whether you're leading a big project, planning an elaborate trip, or trying to balance work and life, ChatGPT can help. Give it a goal, plus things like files, notes, or project plans. And it can help you build a template a deck, develop a trip itinerary with daily updates, or create a prioritized schedule so you can spend less energy sorting out the details and more on bringing your biggest ideas to life. Get started at chatgpt.com. Grainger knows if you're a procurement manager at an industrial manufacturing facility, you're balancing inventory and budget while sourcing critical supplies across the operation.

11:08Too much inventory? Cost climb. Too little? Production slows. Grainger's$2 billion in on-hand inventory helps you get what you need when you need it, so you can help keep budgets balanced and lines moving. Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com, or just stop by. Grainger, for the ones who get it done. Hey, I'm Pablo Torre, host of Pablo Torre Finds Out, and I have chased down a lot of strange stories, but nothing quite like what's inside a McDonald's quarter pounder with cheese. 100 % fresh beef, cooked right when you order it. Hand-topped onions plus cheese and pickles in every bite. And right now, you can get one with medium fries and a drink for just$8.

11:51Only at McDonald's. For a limited time only, prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska, and California. And for delivery, fresh beef not available in Alaska and Hawaii. Offer not valid for delivery. Do you snore? Did somebody hand you a CPAP and did you quietly stop using it? The mask that never quite seals? The hose tugging at you every time you roll over? A machine sitting abandoned in a closet? Excite OSA works a different way. It treats a root cause instead of managing the noise, and you use it while you're awake. 20 minutes a day, while the coffee brews, while you set your fantasy lineup.

12:33an FDA-cleared prescription device for primary snoring and mild obstructive sleep apnea. Then you go to bed like a person. Nothing strapped on, nothing plugged in. In clinical studies, 90 % of patients saw a reduction in snoring. No sleep study required. Prescribed online, shipped to your door. ExciteOSA at springsleep.com slash sleep20. Code sleep20 for 20 % off. Excite OSA is an FDA-cleared, prescription-only device for primary snoring and mild obstructive sleep apnea. Not for everyone. Individual results vary. Risks and benefits at springsleep.com. Cash Now, More Later from Opendoor gives you cash up front for your home, plus all the profit later.

13:24That's no chaos now, no cash left behind later. Skip the showings now, pocket extra profit later. This is so simple now. This is so awesome later. Or sell fast now and pop the champagne later. Cash now, more later. Now available nationwide. Start your offer at opendoor.com slash ACAST. Profits calculated after fees and costs, eligibility and offer price may vary.

13:52Joining us this week is Robert Herron here to talk about televisions. Welcome, Robert. It's good to have you, buddy. Thank you. We're going to get to that after the big tech question. Robert, are you ready for the big tech question first? I am. We have. Yes. Yes. The rest of the team is assembled. Sarah Lane's here. As you know, Jason Hell is here. We also got Roger Chang. Hello, Roger. Hello. Hello, everyone. Are you sure? Hi. And then one's my dial. Hi, Wen. Good to have you. All right. Let's get to the question. With the U.S. midterm elections this week, 41 measures across 10 states weighed in on data centers.

14:32One in Harlow, North Dakota, went in favor of people wanting to build data centers. The rest did not. 27 of those measures added restrictions. The others were things that would have helped data centers and they failed. A few of those 27 imposed outright bans in their area. There were also several winning candidates who promised during their campaigns to restrict data center construction. And after a brief surge on Wednesday, tech stocks started taking a beating. All three major stock averages posting their worst day since April 2025 on Thursday. So the big question is, will new laws restricting data center construction in the US slow down adoption?

15:11Or maybe, maybe let me rephrase it, because the stock market seems to be suggesting the question should be, is the tech bubble about to pop. You can vote on which side you would join in our poll at patreon.com slash DTNS. We've got a couple of teams here taking the position of, yes, Huen Tue Dao. You're on the popping side of things. I'm on the popping side, yeah. Things are popping. Things are popping. Not locking. And then on the like, no, we don't think so. Jason Howell and Robert Herron are on that side. And in the swing seat, just watching the bubbles float, is Sarah Lane and Roger Chang.

15:49I can be persuaded either way. Yeah, you're ready to swing one way or another. All right, let's start off with the yes side. So, Huen, you got two minutes if you want it. Explain why you think this bubble is popping. Why is it popping? Well, I mean, obviously, given the results of the election, was that this week? My gosh, it's felt like a lifetime already. Given the results of the election this week and what we can anticipate to be some hopeful changes in the upcoming year, or at least just some kind of activity at all, it does seem that there is a large sentiment against data center continued, at least a lot of moratoriums against continued data center development.

16:30I do feel like there's a strong, you know, among tech people, you know, we have a very mixed and nuanced opinions about data centers and AI. But it really does feel like the mainstream sentiment among most people is kind of negativity towards the impacts of data center towards their communities. And they have made their feelings known. And it seems that at least the representatives elect are responding to this and looking to make changes. And I would also argue as someone who actually works in tech that I think some of the reticence or the slowdown of adoption is even being seen in industry as well.

17:01It's a really weird time with continued layoffs, with companies kind of recognizing the cost of this. And obviously, one of the things that these tech companies are telling us is that we need more compute, that more compute will make things better. But given, again, the fact that the sentiment largely is against data centers, I'd say, in the broader public and given kind of like the promise, at least, of representatives of luck to slow down these things. I do feel like this is kind of a sign that maybe there is a bit of a bubble. It might it might be deflating. It might be popping. But I do think the rubber is going to hit the road here because it really does seem like this.

17:37I mean, I'm I'd say almost not quite unprecedented, but very unusual kind of AI arms race, this kind of weird scaling, this weird like drive to make most of us adopt a thing where there's such a large public negative sentiment. And also, honestly, to some extent, yes, some proven productivity, but also, yes, a lot of demonstra, a lot of kind of like empirically just a lot of negative impacts in terms of like just job disruption is going to just bear fruit. There you go. All right. Good, good arguments on the side of the data center slowdown. Jason and Robert, do you all need time to confer on who goes first or Jason, you want to go?

18:20How do you want to work this? I can get mine done real quick. And then I'll throw it right over you. I promise not to steal your time, Robert. I feel like in the case of this, demand is totally different from data center build out. Data center build out is about capacity. Demand is about whether people actually get use out of technology. And those two things aren't intrinsically. I mean, they might be related in some way, but just because there's less or slower data build out doesn't necessarily mean that the users on the other side suddenly want or suddenly don't find utility in the technology that they're used to using any less.

18:59So I don't think it changes what the users want. No question there's a lot of negative sentiment around tech and really more specifically around AI and data centers. But I don't think that's going to stop the usage of people because the more you use these things, the more they kind of make their way into your everyday. And that's kind of my perspective on that. All right. You still got a minute left, Robert. Do you want to add on? I would just say there are significant environmental and quality of life concerns if you live next to one of these data centers. But hell no. I mean, these tools seem to be getting better and more capable on almost a weekly basis at this point.

19:39There is a new model seemingly popping up from some of the big competitors right now. And I think especially at this entry level, say the$20 a month plan from some of the biggest players right now, that is a personal assistant you can have that de-stresses a workload. And I'm finding that with at least what's predicted currently with the amount of compute that's about to come online starting next year, there's going to be a glut of this ability. And I think this pricing war, in a sense, you're going to get more and more, at least as a consumer, for that monthly fee, at least for the next year or two.

20:16And I see no reason to be not taking advantage of that. However, when it comes to building these facilities, it's more about I am not a fan of hearing deal after deal made with city officials to get things done under NDA. And at the last minute, they just are magically approved with no input from the public. And I really think they need to be forced, in a sense, to focus on things like they should be self-powered as far as like solar and battery power. All right. That is your alarm. It's time to get up, everyone, and get into the swing seat. Sarah, Roger, do either of you want to pose some questions?

20:57Roger, you go first. Yeah. So, you know, so far what we've seen could be correctly termed as a correction in the market. And typically the argument I've seen for those still bullish on anti-investments is that what you have are a lot of the peripheral players, the ones that aren't in the core aspect of it, either developing the hardware technology or the large language models. Those are the ones that are getting shaken off the tree, so to speak. And so this, in a weird way, is really just sort of a correction. It is a shaky of the tree getting the people that are just glomming on to the whole concept, to the whole bandwagon of AI, but not necessarily in a stage or an area where the money that they've invested is anywhere close to, say, what Anthropic or OpenAI or Google or whomever else with deep pockets have invested so far.

21:52But at the same time, there is a demonstrable vocal pushback from the population that gets all of these data centers. I mean, currently my whole viewpoint is that this will just – it won't slow down the adoption, nor is this a pop and a bubble, but rather a correction, a realignment or recalibration of expectations from everyone.

22:19Yeah. Yeah. So just to echo some of Roger's sentiments, I do think that data center, if you live right next to a data center, you have legitimate concerns. It's noisy. Is there energy issues? Is your water getting messed up? And a lot of people feel that or don't feel that. But in general, it seems like and many times these data centers are built in rural areas because that's where there's land. There was the promise of a lot of new jobs. Now, a lot of new jobs did occur, but I think that just looking at the U.S. political stuff over the last few days leads me to believe that people just don't think the data centers work that well for everyday people as much as they were promised.

23:15Now, does it work well for technology moving forward, pushing forward? Well, yeah, of course. I mean, that's the only way that it would happen. but you have to remember that there are so many people who are like, but what, what, what is this for? I mean, does my son get a job? He's 25 and he's living, you know, in my house still. It seems like an odd thing for this to happen around, uh, because data centers have been around forever and no one was paying attention to them, including, you know, the, the, the usage of, of land and the noise and all of that until AI came along. How much do we think is just people becoming aware that they have negative externalities?

23:58I think the water one is quite exaggerated since if you're not using evaporative cooling, which most new designs don't use, it's not going to have the water effects. But the energy one is for real. They need to provision and energy to run these things. They always have. So to get back to that, how much do we think this is because people are having a backlash against AI? How much of it is a clash against big tech, and it wouldn't matter what they were doing? And how much of it do we think is like, no, it's legitimate concerns because of the scale at which they're being built now versus before that.

24:38I think the scale is the big thing. I would say yes. Because it's happening so fast. that that frightens people i think i honestly i think it's everything you said tom yes that's why i said how much because i think those are all free happening but this is the thing when you talk about externalities it's not just the data center next to me and i i have you know i have quality of life issues because i can hear the ac hvac units running 24 7 it's about hey every time i go buy something it's more expensive especially when it's tech and people are telling me all these AI data centers are spiking the cost of RAM.

25:15It's costing my tablets, my smartphones, or whatever to go up. And then you have the political angle where a lot of, you know, and politics is half emotion, right? It's about, you know, sparking an emotive response. It's like, hey, look, your governor's telling all these data centers to come build in your center, but these jobs aren't going to last. There's no real long-term employment. There's a lot of emotive aspect to it. And finally, people are just disgruntled in general because the cost of living is high, and they are seeing a big ship roll through the harbor that says, with blinking dollar signs all over it, yeah, you're going to be upset at that because, hey, look, I make as much as I did five years ago, but I buy less.

26:03I can't afford to feed my family at the same level. I have to cut back on vacation. I have to cut back on a bunch of things. And again, you see this big thing that just seems to be sucking up all the money. And people, rightly or wrongly, just connect all those things together. Sorry, go ahead. Finish, Roger. Oh, no. I was just saying, if this was a power generation thing, say like, oh, we're going to build a new refinery all over the country in order to make ourselves self-sufficient in all our fuels. and then people say, well, things are getting more expensive and this is costing more and then people are having political wranglings over – you just glom onto it because that is the big shiny thing that's in the hood.

26:48And it has an outsized effect on everything, has an outsized effect on politics. When you have the world's richest man publicly saying he's dropping money into certain races, you connect that. Okay, but that's – now we've gone away from data centers now. But what I'm saying is the data center is literally just sort of the – You're saying it's gotten caught up into the politics of it all. It's a metaphor for all the people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I get it. And that's what they see. You can't pull that away soon. At least like 40 – I think to be fair, I think in my perspective, the data center part and the backlash to AI is maybe like 40-40.

27:25and then the big tech maybe comes in at about 20 % and it's more like kind of ancillary to the, obviously big tech being the source of this whole sermon drawing to begin with. And I do think like the actual like externalities of data centers and real impacts in communities just pairs with this again. And I 100 % agree with you. It's the scale at which this is all happening that kind of magnifies all of these like both negative, well, we'll say both the negative and positive impacts, but it's kind of just like exacerbating everything because it's happening at such a scale that we as a society aren't really kind of adapting to it.

27:58And I guess I would argue that I don't really see this kind of like all of the kind of trepidation and all of the misgivings. I don't see the backlash to AI, which is now I would feel very strongly linked to data centers. I mean, it's almost like there's two different problems here, but they are just inextricably linked because the one feeds the other. Actually, it's like a loop. They feed each other, right? And I don't think it's going to get better because, as Roger said, you know, I mean, as we all know, we like we all know, like cost of living, disruption of jobs. And I don't think that part's going to get any better anytime soon.

28:31I hope to. Gosh, it will get better anytime soon. But we're also witnessing huge disruptions in the job market. And even like, you know, having it will be even outside of tech. I mean, I know I keep talking about layoffs kind of like in my industry. But, you know, we're now trained like we now have like, you know, like say like Waymos and like autonomous driving. We're having companies train, like putting cameras on people's heads to train on different skills from cleaning houses to sewing to barbers. And it just seems like, again, kind of inextricably part of this, oh, with more compute, we can start taking your skills.

29:05It's this colonization of labor and skills. That's just where things are going. I just feel like that just kind of feeds into the bubble and will ultimately kind of like, again, kind of add more fuel to this fire in regards to like, if anything, at the very least, the negative sentiment and like the resistance towards both data centers and generative. Let me real quickly address GPEG 84. He has a question in the chat room. Are any currently being built? Yes, 567 data centers under construction, according to CleanView, a market analyst company. That is out of 4 ,566 data centers being tracked in the U.S.

29:43So, yes, lots of them being built. If you were wondering, like, why is this even a problem? I guess they're all being stopped. No, they're not. There's 567 under construction. A lot of the election measures were about slowing down construction, restricting approval of new ones, that sort of thing. But they are absolutely being built. And they kind of hit upon what Sarah was saying. Sarah, I think, was about to say something. Let's go to her. I was just – to your points when – about certain jobs. You know, are you a barber? You know, are you a seamstress? These, you know, the sort of the promise of AI can do it better.

30:22There are so many people and the promise is AI can do it better. And then you can just have a different job that you want more anyway. And there are a lot of people who don't understand that. I mean, if someone was like, hey, Sarah, AI will take your job. You'll just have the job that you wanted more anyway. I'd be like, no, thanks. You know, we kind of cling on to what we know. And a lot of people are in that situation where it's just it's all moving so fast and it scares people. Technology has always threatened to replace jobs and, in fact, has replaced roles. I usually say roles because the jobs often change, right?

31:10When computers came along in the 1960s, it replaced the role of typist and filer and some of those things and converted them to things like administrative assistant and product manager and project manager. It's always uncertain when new technology comes if that's going to happen this time or not and how long it's going to take. So I think that's where a lot of this uncertainty comes from. how much do we think is misunderstanding the technology and how much do we think is perfectly well understanding the technology? I think the optics – I'll go for it. No, go for it, Robert. I was going to say, I think the data centers would have better optics and a better feel for the community, at least, in terms of if they could promise or at least make part of the deal that they were going to generate, say, clean energy to a scale for their own facility and beyond where it would benefit the local community to reduce the overall cost of electricity for that community.

32:12That would go a long way toward just helping people, I think, get over some of the build out. I'm sorry. I can hear Google and Microsoft screaming that's exactly what they've been doing. And then other companies have ruined it for them by putting in gas generators. So totally there is that. And I think in terms of just job, in a sense, there are jobs being created and job demands to if you look at for commercial electricians in the United States right now, we're short by a couple hundred thousand. And the ones that are working currently are being poached left and right for these kind of projects.

32:47So there is a balance between what goes away and what stays. But that's a really good point. We talk about the RAM shortage. We never talk about the electrician shortage, which is a problem as well. If you need an electrician for a home project, it's expensive. It's more expensive than it used to be for the exact same reason. And I think some of the problems we're currently experiencing with like RAM storage and GPU shortages and just the skyrocketing prices for those components, that will also change in the short term. I've seen some new patents being filed basically to address how to reduce the cost of those things or the demand for specific types of RAM or the type of compute that's currently being used to make it even more efficient.

33:26So I don't think these are going to be like long-term forever problems, but in the short term, it is painful. Try to build a new personal computer today on your own if you're a fan of doing that. And the cost is ridiculous, especially on the GPU side of things. SK Hynix says it's going to be until 2030 before the capacity catches up. Right. So there is a birthing pain or just a growth pain right now of building these facilities. And I think just having a better discussion and a more open discussion about what it is that people are sharing and to get people more used to these tools as well. I think there's just a general – I don't think a lot of people are using them yet.

34:04I mean increasingly more and more people, but the regular folks out there finding a use for these and to be able to take advantage of them in terms of how they – what are the benefits and how can you make this work for you? I think that brings us back to the question, right, which is, is there enough use of these that even with restrictions on data centers, slowing them down won't stop and the bubble won't burst? Or is this the kind of thing that the emperor has no clothes? And when we start to slow down the data center, suddenly, you know, the money evaporates and the whole thing falls apart.

34:38I mean, I'm not saying that the money wouldn't, you know, evaporate or change. This certainly changes the scenario of what we've been used to for the last couple of years. The election and the data center, which can be the symbol for AI dislike for a lot of people, whether it has a direct and immediate impact on their lives because the data center is coming close to them or whether they just don't feel very good about AI. And data center is a really great target for that. At the end of the day, though, my point continues to be, yeah, but so much use is happening with these things. Even people that I would say are not very tech – I hate to say literate but really tech passionate in my extended circles, they're using these things in the comparatively limited capacity to someone who's like a tech bro and is living their life on these things.

35:29But they're using them. They're finding value in them. And I think that continues regardless of what the capacity is, the desire, the demand for it. I don't think that goes away. It's kind of like when the internet came along and it had its own impacts. You can't put that genie back in the bottle. I think the genie is already out. And also, I think another thing to raise here is in many of these cases, we're talking about local votes, right? That build out can move. And actually, you know, metas even said like – Go to North Dakota. Or go overseas, which is – I hate to say that because it's not like they aren't going to have the same issues.

36:05But they're all thinking about this right now. Do we want it to be here or should we just go there? Or should we go up into the sky? You know, and also there's a difference between there are a few bands amongst these measures, but most of them were just restrictions. A lot of them, I think, are just good, sensible, like, hey, if you're going to build this, let's make sure you've figured out your power. Let's make sure you're not trying to sneak in an old fashioned evaporative cooling version of this and using our water. Let's make sure that you've got noise abatement and you've got traffic control.

36:36Not that those things weren't always considered, but these restrictions are going to make sure that they're held to a higher standard and make sure nobody can sneak around the rules, in which case it won't actually end data center construction. It won't even really slow it down that much. And hopefully, if they are implemented properly, it'll improve the data center construction so it has fewer negative externalities. Can I just comment on the adoption part of it, though? Just especially as someone who's basically using AI my entire day, especially probably in the most arguably kind of like most productive case, which is like software development, is that, yes, we have all adopted this.

37:16And I won't lie, I've definitely gotten a lot of productivity out of it. I barely type code anymore. I'd say like I don't I type maybe 20 percent of the time. But the reason that I'm typing is that as you continue to use these tools, it becomes evident that the promise of them and the reality of them is two different things. And that I don't think we should ever forget that. And I hear all the time, like I worry so much about folks because being a technologist myself, about this idea that technology moves forward and we just have to kind of go with the flow. So to your genie in the bottle analogy, I would say like I often use the metaphor of Pandora's box.

37:56Now, Pandora opened the box and let all the bad things out in the world. But she closed that stuff. And, you know, what remained inside was this is going to be really like kind of floofy. There was hope. So there is there is some mitigation to closing the box and trying to keep whatever we have in the box still and kind of like working with that. And I will say someone who has who's using AI like all the time, even though my productivity has increased, my enjoyment of my job is down at least 50, 60 percent because of the the longer term impacts of what does it mean with all of this cognitive offload?

38:27What is the actual impact of us, you know, apart from the nice things like me not having to format my show notes anymore, like all those kind of little conveniences? What is the longer term social personal impacts of using these things, like whether it's not just for a little like kind of tedious things, but also for things like people using it for health care or for like socialization or for things where it might actually matter if something is right or wrong? We're still kind of because of that scaling issue, all of these little impacts are almost like an isolation and become noise that is drowned out by kind of like the broader kind of more bigger, like bigger news items that we hear all the time, like Sam Altman going around and saying everybody needs to give him his ram, things like that.

39:07We kind of are not. Which is definitely not what he said, but that's what people think, right? And that drowns out the other stuff. I get it. I'm mischaracterizing a little bit. No, but I think your point is still good. Is that I also would caution that like, yes, we, but at the same time, it might be benefit us as a whole that we do slow down and actually measure the impact of this and measure. So what does it mean that I actually dislike my job about 60 % more? Like, and what does that mean? Like, I have a friend, like their kiddo graduated with a CS degree two years ago and now has to go work hospitality because the market is just so disruptive.

39:42and like so what is what are they going to do like what like and we don't like and i've mentioned this so many times we don't have on ramps for some of these places of impact like we don't have solid education or like career um like replacement or career training for these kind of alternate things for the people that are impacted now and i i know that there's a positive future out there where we all kind of like slot into better things just like how when we didn't have to like butcher our like we didn't have to farm our own food or butcher our own food that leaves us more room for more like you know more different pursuits and that but that happened over like years right now we're getting disrupted in like the course of like two to three years and we just have no human we're still human beings we we cannot scale in the same way that ia does we don't have time to talk about it now but i think one of the aspects of this that doesn't get discussed enough is having gone through the social media revolution, I think informs everyone's reaction to this revolution.

40:40And the lessons learned from like, well, with social media, it just went out there, no one asked for it, and it just happened, and everybody used it. And then there's these negative externalities from it. And I think that is a very recent lesson that a whole lot of people are applying to this and saying, I don't want that to happen with this particular one. So I think that is a really good thing to remember when you're evaluating this, is to think about the fact that we do have experience with recent technological disruption in a way that when social media came along the heels of the internet, it was faster than anything had ever been adopted, but slower than this is being adopted now.

41:24I think that's a really good point. All right. I don't know if we have decided whether the tech bubble is going to burst or not. It's still in the swing. But it's a really, really good conversation that we just had. So thank you for all of this. Let us turn our attention quickly to what's on Live With It this week, Sarah. Oh, Tom. On this week's episode of Live With It, longtime DTNS supporter Howard Yermich, hi Howard, walks us through the good and a little of the bad of the open source platform Home Assistant Green. Could it be your smart home solution? Maybe you're on the fence. Maybe you're thinking of starting from scratch.

42:02Maybe you're thinking of switching over. Howard has thoughts.

42:11The quarter pounder with cheese is made with 100 % fresh beef cooked when you order it. Add hot crispy fries and an ice cold Coke and hopefully a lot of napkins. All for$8. Ba-da-ba-ba-ba.

42:54get it done.

42:59Our next question of the week is for Robert Heron. It's the reason we had him stop by Robert with the big sale days coming up. November 11th is Singles Day in most of the world. November 27th is Black Friday in our little corner of the world. What should shoppers look for in a deal for a new television? That is a terrific question. And I would say, number one, set a firm budget. And that would include everything from the sales tax involved to getting it delivered to your home or even maybe mounting the TV on a wall. Also, any kind of audio upgrades or things like that. Just consider the whole price that you're going to be willing to part with in order to obtain this new device.

43:42And then beyond that, you really need to think about matching that TV to your room and maybe even the seating, especially if you watch TV as a group with other people. You want to consider things like the screen size itself. Are you dealing with lots of sunlight and maybe potential reflections from big windows? Or how off-center will people be seated in the room? Different display technologies perform better or worse with all of those characteristics. And that's something to keep in mind. And then I think when it comes down, especially if you're on a budget, you've got to pick your priorities.

44:19You want – is it a big screen experience? Do you want the biggest thing possible? Do you want something that's going to give you the cinematic quality of detail and color that you want to experience maybe in a darker room environment? Are you a gamer? That is a big consideration when it comes to specific features. And even TVs that are listed as game ready aren't necessarily the best experience for the money. There are certain tests that need to be performed on the back end to make sure that that's going to work out for you on that. And then when it comes to basically choosing that specific TV, I would come up with the exact model.

44:58The thing that it's like, you know what? I really, I think this particular model, spell it out, that is the one that's going to work for me, and then track that price. Services like Camel, Camel, Camel, which are related to tracking prices on Amazon, are a terrific tool. They also have Camel Mart for tracking prices on Walmart. What those tools will do will let you take a look at, say, look at last year's model. Like if you're going to buy it last year, what was the best thing going? And you'll see a trend over the year. And sure enough, it seems like that third week of November through the holidays, the rest of the holidays, is generally one of the lowest prices you're going to find on a particular device.

45:40But it's not the only time. If you can't buy right now, there will be opportunities in the future. And that's just something to keep in mind. There are good values almost all year round, especially if you're looking at devices that have been out for a little while. And keep that in mind. Now, I am an OLED guy, the organic light emitting diode. And generally, that will cost more than an LCD television, which is the other popular TV technology out there. Now, OLEDs offer a wider color gamut. They offer per pixel level contrast. So the image is just fantastically detailed and very wide viewing angles compared to those LCD televisions.

46:21However, the premium TVs out there on the LCD side can produce some decent color. And also, you may also consider that some of the technologies involved that I'm talking about, be it like when people talk about an LCD TV or a QLED or a mini LED TV, most of the time you're just talking about an LCD television, a liquid crystal display television. And then the OLED television I'm talking about is where you have the individual pixels that will emit light themselves compared to the LCD televisions where you have a backlighting system through a layer of filters to produce the picture quality you see.

47:01And both of those styles of displays have pros and cons related to them in terms of just how they work and how they produce their imagery and what gives you the best results. And while OLED generally does cost more, it is like the best of all worlds in most cases regarding either pixel performance, image quality. And for me, really, it's the wide viewing angle. That's the big one there. Now, for a lot of TVs and for this year in particular, one of the cool new inventions that is, I think, finally hit its stride is anti-reflection. So if you are dealing with a room environment where it's just – it's uncontrollable.

47:43I have to place the TV on this part of the room and behind me is going to be a wall of windows or some bright lights or something. There are now screens out there specifically that will handle those kind of reflections in a way that was really just not doable before, even a year or so ago. And it's fantastic in terms of that kind of technology. One quick example, I had a friend of mine who had this very same problem. It's like he was replacing an old plasma TV. And I said, well, you're used to plasma. You like that look. You're a candidate for OLED, and it was in his budget at the moment to go that way.

48:16And we went with something like the Samsung S90H. That is a terrific TV that's based upon LG's panels in addition to Samsung's panels. Depending on which size you buy, that's something else to keep in mind. There is sometimes differences within a particular model series for different screen sizes. So, again, make sure you do some research ahead of time and really nail down the exact size and model you want. And then I would also suggest, too, once you have that, check out some reviews. There's like Tom's Hardware is a good site as well as Ratings, R-T-I-N-G-S. Now, I really trust what the Ratings folks do in terms of their work and the review processes.

49:02And they cover more than just displays nowadays. But that is also a pay-for website where you have to pay for a subscription to use it. I think if you're in the market for a TV, though, buy a 30-day subscription for$10, and it's going to pay for itself just to give you some peace of mind in terms of making sure that the specific model you're looking at, the specific size, and its feature set are in line with what you're expecting when you pull the trigger and get the TV you want. and uh what else for gaming gaming's a tricky one uh there are a lot of tvs out there that will have proper support for and in particular i'm thinking console gaming for your playstation 5 and xbox uh you want to make sure that you have enough ports that are going to support your consoles i was at a client's house recently this person had not only a gaming pc hooked up but also two uh gaming the top tier gaming consoles as well and actually a third gaming console.

50:02You had the Xbox, the PlayStation, and the Switch all going. And it required, at least for the Xbox and the PlayStation and the PC, these high bandwidth HDMI ports. And classically, Sony is one of those companies for whatever reason, and hopefully this will change in the near future. But if they provide four ports on even their premium flagship TVs, only two of those are going to support that high bandwidth that you need for doing something like 4K resolution at a very high refresh rate. And that's something to keep in mind. You can always buy additional products to augment these TVs when you're shopping, basically like an HDMI switch.

50:41That one picture right there is a fantastic example of something that supports all the current formats as far as gaming or movies or whatever, but it transforms one HDMI input. You would take one of the best HDMI inputs on the TV, plug that box into it, and it would give you three or more ports, depending on what you need for that. And devices like that can also provide some automation in terms of being able to provide auto-switching between those devices. So as you turn on a device, it will just automatically switch over to that port. When you turn it off, it will go back to whatever. Was it port one, so to speak?

51:15But that always – well, not always, depending on the person. Sometimes the person says, ooh, this is getting a little bit more complicated than I thought I was. I thought I was just getting a TV, plug it in, and let's go. If you're a gamer, you're probably a little bit more used to this. But that's something to consider. Yeah, and that would also go toward things like HDMI cables as well. Generally speaking, if the cable link – keep the cable links as short as practical. And then if they're under 10 feet or 3 meters, it's generally – almost any cable is going to work for any video signal. It's only once you get into really long lengths that – or longer lengths.

51:57The longer the cable, the more difficult it becomes to accurately and reliably transmit that signal, especially high-bandwidth stuff like consoles, console gaming, where you're dealing with high refresh rate, high resolution. And that's where you might want to switch up to something like a fiber optic-based HDMI cable or something like that. Those are specific cases, though, and you'll know. It's just trying to save you from spending money on something that's not going to work is really what it's there. And then for anybody who has, once you get that device and you get that TV set up, you're going to need some updates on it.

52:32Especially the more premium TVs seem to ship not quite fully baked. And those first few months, you're just going to receive update after update if it's connected to the Internet in order to fix those little quirks and bugs. And with the recent kerfuffle related to how these companies are basically making money on the back end, it turns out that no TV manufacturer actually makes money on selling TVs. And instead, what they do is collect data in terms of what you're watching and creating profiles and selling that data to advertisers. One way to get around that is I still recommend you update the TV to get the latest software in it, but then you can disconnect it from the Internet and add a separate box like something like the Roku or the Apple TV.

53:18And while, yes, they collect information as well, but at least you're making the choices specifically, I think it's easier to determine what they're collecting on products like that. And they're a little more open about it, and you may trust them more than not. And that's something to keep in mind. And then also for we mentioned audio upgrades to a soundbar is a great replacement for most TV speakers that generally can be pretty crappy. But also look through those TV settings and never be afraid to explore what's built in in terms of maybe you need something that improves dialogue clarity a little bit more.

53:53Or you need something that can brighten the picture. And that's what those presets are good for. Always feel free to go in there and experiment with those settings. and if things get jumbled and messed up, you can always just hit the reset button on the TV and just go back to starting point A and configure from that point forward. Yeah, I think that the big takeaways here, and this is super helpful, Robert, thank you for giving us that download. Rtings.com, ratings.com with no A is worth checking out, especially if you can get just a one month, not a 30 month, just a one month subscription. That's me.

54:31I think that's a good one. Unless you really like it. I mean, if you really like it, go for it. Yeah. Give them 30 months at once. And I think the three yard cable rule for most people is going to be a relief because I know I don't have any HDMI cables that are longer than three meters, longer than three yards, basically, or 10 feet. So that's helpful to know like, oh, OK, I don't have to worry too much unless I'm doing something long range. And the fact that you said, you know what, you can actually find deals during these sales. I think there's lots of people like, well, duh, of course you can.

55:06But I am one of the people that's like, well, they don't do sales unless they're going to figure out a way to make more money off of you. So I'm always curious if you're really getting a deal or not. And that's good to know from somebody who watches this space so close. And for size-wise, too, that's something to really consider. I'm always a fan of getting the biggest thing that'll fit. and once you do figure out exactly what model it is or the series you're thinking of, go look up the specs and actually look at the width and the height of it with the stand or not, depending on how you're using it.

55:34Make sure it will fit where you're thinking of putting it. And even something like a roll of painter's tape just to outline something on a wall or just to give you a physical idea of what to do. Because I hate seeing an undersized display somewhere, but at the same point, if you're sitting only like six or eight feet away from the screen, You might not need an 85-inch display. You may need something more along. I'm not going to say no. It might be bad for your neck. Hey, if you want to look back and forth like a tennis match on everything, there you go. One question somebody in the chat room had.

56:09Is burn-in still a concern on the OLEDs, or have they gotten better at fighting that off? Surprisingly, yes. I don't worry about it. I have an OLED that's – what is it now? It's probably five, six, seven years old. It doesn't have any burn-in, but I'm also not using it as digital signage or with static imagery for any length of time. It is running either video content or gaming content that's moving every – using the screen effectively in that case. But if you are a person who just leaves it on a financial program with a bright white stock ticker at the bottom 24-7, those are the scenarios where you're going to end up with potentially some uneven pixel wear, especially if you're driving the display at its maximum brightness.

56:56the more so you do that. It was a hope that with these latest formulations, and I will say the latest generations of OLED televisions are so much significantly improved in brightness, especially peak brightness, that it is, they are competing practically with even some of the very best LCD TVs out there. But the harder you drive any of these displays, you have to keep that in mind. There is a lot of built-in functionality related to protecting that screen and minimizing potential artifacts. I would not, if you're a real video nerd and you love digging into those settings, I would not disable any of that stuff.

57:36There are things related to like anything. If it detects a static object on the screen, it will start dimming just that part of the screen. The whole screen will actually shift the video image around by a few pixels as you're watching it in order to minimize. If there is a hard edge that's not moving, it'll tend to blur out that hard edge. so it's not just cooking one specific spot. There's a lot of functionality built in. Even when you turn the set off, it'll do a refresh phase that will help minimize just obvious errors and protect those pixels from uneven wear, which is the root cause of a quote-unquote burn-in.

58:14And in the end, if that is a super concern, I've only seen LCDs burn in in very weird cases and never in a consumer. environment. Yeah. Fantastic. That's the short. All right. Well, let's finish up with a quick question. This week, Google almost did a good thing, offering schools the chance to opt in to Gemini-based tools and Google Workspace for schools. But that included Google Search, because Google claims it can't offer search without AI. Do you buy that? Our third question of the week is, could and or should Google offer schools a version of Google search without Gemini? And we'll start off with the host of AI Inside, Jason Howell.

59:00What do you think? I absolutely think that Google should and could do this. I don't buy that there is no way to make it work technically. Tom, when we talked about this on Tuesday, you mentioned a couple of different things. I ended up testing some of those on Wednesday. I wasn't able to get the ampersand switch that you that you included to work but the web but the web to the tab if you go to search and you do the three dots there's a web selection that is it like that's search without ai embedded right there very least it's like right there and it already works i think google just has a lot of incentive to keep that rolling although it's weird to me because they've made great strides in the classroom uh with from access and strategy standpoint with chrome os and all these things, you know, they've been the search go to for decades at this point.

59:49I don't feel like this is a hill worth dying on for Google. And I don't understand why they don't see it that way. When's way down? Do you agree? Good Lord, do I agree? Excuse me. I mean, everything that Jason just said, that's easy. Like if you can provide it, provide it. And it's also for education. And I also would like to say again, kind of maybe going back to kind of like a little bit tangentially, but like, I do feel like especially during school and lessons is when we teach kids like critical thinking and learning how to analyze sources. I think it's good. It's just like how we have calculators, but we still teach arithmetic.

1:00:22I'd say give them the regular search so that kids do learn how to use like search results and kind of go for their own. Like, I feel like it's just part of the training. And I don't know why Google would want to take that away. I just think it's a bad look. Like just, just give them the regular search and leave the AI out of it. And let these kids kind of like understand kind of like what the basic tools that we have are. And then, you know, later on, like, sure, Google, if you want to stick Gemini in things, but I don't see any reason for them to die on this healthy set. Roger, what do you think?

1:00:50Is there a reason that Google could put forth that says, no, no, there is a good reason why we can't offer schools search without AI involved? I mean, honestly, I'm always split about corporate capture of our public schools. But definitely, they can definitely offer their just plain search without the AI. They do everything else, especially with Chromebooks. I mean, my kids get a free Chromebook. I mean, they have to return it at the end of the year. But yeah, it's, I mean, it goes into a bigger issue of whether or not we want corporations to be one of the - That's whether you want Google Workspace for school at all in your school.

1:01:26Yeah, that's a whole other question. But like, they should offer it and they can't offer it. There's a mentality, I think, when When you have a level of attention from students that you literally have locked into your ecosystem that kind of makes you want to do different things, it's like, no. Just let the school decide and let them pick what they want. Which is what Google is saying they're doing. They're like, look, we are turning it from being on by default to off by default. We just can't do it for search, which so far everyone disagrees with them on. Sarah, are we missing anything? I think Google is batshit crazy saying that they can't take Gemini out of search.

1:02:16It's Google. And sorry. Sorry for the SH word. But of course they can. That's insanity. That makes no sense to me. What I think is the bigger issue is, OK, well, you've got a kid in school. Does the kid need access to AI? What kind of class is it? As one mentioned, is it learning math-related stuff? Is it looking up a historical figure that maybe you could have read a book about? There are lots of teachers and schools that are going to address this in different ways. And I think to Roger's point, having this – I want to call it an encyclopedia because it kind of is but it kind of isn't to just sort of know the answer for you is going to be helpful sometimes and detrimental other times.

1:03:08But Google should not – they certainly cannot say that they can't take this out of their technology. And again, just if anybody listening is missing this, the news was Google saying, if you want to get Google Workspace for schools, which you don't have to, but if you want to, we will provide it without Gemini. You can leave everything off. But the problem was that included search. They're like, well, you have to have Gemini in search. So if you turn search on for your school, you have to use Gemini in the search. And so far, we are unanimous in like, that's a bunch of BS. You could fill in the B and the S.

1:03:50They could mean lots of different things. Robert, you're the last one to speak. Do you differ at all? I'm guessing not, but let's see. I'm of the opinion that like search as we were introduced to it many, many years ago, where it's I'm feeling lucky, that has all been dead at this point. And it's only with chatbots and LLMs that most – that you should be searching, in my opinion. However, I would say that Google's – maybe if you're paying for it in a workspace account, that's one thing. But Google's free AI sucks. And it isn't until you actually start paying them that it becomes even remotely usable.

1:04:27And then my concern mostly would be is what's being provided to students, is it going to include sponsored results in the search? No, it does not. I mean, that's something about Google Workspace for schools that I think a lot of people have questions if they're not familiar with. It doesn't train on the search results. It doesn't include sponsorships. It is a very different product than what you would get just using Google in general. I think it should include frontier grade LLMs for the students. And in addition to that, there should be a curriculum that gets into the proper – the use and limitations of those tools and the potential pitfalls of using those tools.

1:05:08But making them – I want these kids to be basically the next-gen experts at spotting AI content, making them aware of how AI can make mistakes currently, and leveraging what these tools can do and moving forward with that and being comfortable with it. Yeah. Google agrees. They just don't want to give you search without it. Thank you for helping us get a better understanding of these questions, everybody. We talked about data restrictions slowing down AI and whether that was going to affect the tech bubble. We got some great information from Robert on shopping for a television. And we all think Google is batshit crazy about not giving schools the ability to have search without AI.

1:05:50So there, I've doubled down on you, Sarah, so you don't feel alone. Thank you. Big thanks to Robert Heron for being with us. Before we go, Robert, where can folks find more of what you do these days? You can find me at HeronFidelity.com. That's my catch-all website for my business. And if you're interested in more of the stuff I do on the side in terms of I do write articles occasionally about the AV industry, display technology in particular, go figure. You can hit me up at robertheron.com as well. Fantastic. Big thanks to everybody who supports us in all the various ways. If you're on YouTube giving us any kind of hype points, they do this hype point thing.

1:06:26It helps other people discover our channel there. Big thanks to the folks who subscribe to us on Twitch. GPEG84 for the 72nd month at Tier 1. Thank you, GPEG84. Zoe brings bacon 66 months at Tier 1. Techno Mensch back for the 38th month. PC Milesy for the 68th month. G. James B. reached a 215 stream streak. Thank you, everybody, for supporting us in all the various ways, including patreon.com slash DTNS. Thank you, patrons, for keeping us in business. You can support us on Patreon as well, patreon.com slash DTNS. In fact, the patrons get Good Day Internet, our post show. So stick around and find that as soon as we're done here.

1:07:11This weekend on The Feed, Patrick Norton sits down with Eileen Rivera to help her decide on what new headphones to get. And on Sunday, Dr. Nicky is going to explain why the jellyfish maybe deserves the Nobel Prize for chemistry. Talk to you again on Monday.

1:07:29This week's episodes of The Daily Tech News Show were brought to you by the following people. Host Rob Dunwood. Host Jason Howell. Host Sarah Lane. Host Tom Merritt. Host Wen Tui Dao. Producer Roger Chang. Producer Anthony Lemos. Video producer Joe Kuntz. Our editor Hammond Chamberlain. Contributing producers Kevin Tech, Noel Cow, and Brandon Richards. Social media producer and moderator Zoe Detterding. Our mods. Beatmaster Wscottis1. BioCow. Captain Kipper. Steve Gotorama. Paul Reese. Matthew J. Stevens. and J.D. Galloway. Modern video hosting by Dan Christensen. Music provided by Martin Bell and Dan Luters.

1:08:02Art by Len Peralta. Acast ad support from Todd Tuchek. Patreon support from Bobby Wagner. And our guests this week, Camille Bazbaz, J.F. Dubow, Mallory O'Mara, Phil Fricasse, Scott Johnson, and Robert Heron. And thanks to all the patrons who make the show possible.

1:08:20This show is part of the Frog Pants Network. Get more at frogpants.com. Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this broker.

1:08:58Ha ha ha ha. Ranger, for the ones who get it done. The quarter pounder with cheese is made with 100 % fresh beef, cooked when you order it. Then comes the melted cheese, the slivered onions, the pickles, the ketchup, and the mustard. Add hot crispy fries and an ice cold Coke, all for$8. And if things go well, one loose fry at the bottom of the bag. The Quarter Pounder with Cheese Meal Now$8