Are PayPhones Making a Comeback Thanks to VoIP? - DTNSB 5043

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3:23Jenn Cutter: this oh this it's the daily tech news for wednesday june 18th 2025 we tell you what you need to know we follow up on context we help each other understand and today patrick schlott tells us why he has started restoring old pay phones and installing them for free voip calls in verbannt and do you like hardware because we round up four big gadget announcements from AR glasses to smart home stuff. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm Tom Merritt. I'm Jen Cutter. Let's start with what you need to know with the big story. Or stories, as the case may be. Sometimes it seems like all the news is just people saying things about technology, yelling at each other about technology rather than, you know, giving you some technology.

4:05Jenn Cutter: So it's nice to have a day where we can focus on actual shipping products that reviewers seem to like in most cases. I tried the Xreal One Pro smart glasses at CES this year. They are finally out. They look like regular glasses, except you need to plug them in with a wire to your device. So think of them less as like competitors to the Meta Ray-Bans and more like wearable monitors. They can work with a smartphone, a laptop, a gaming device, pretty much anything that supports an external monitor over USB-C. Your phone or your laptop or your Steam Deck's screen will then float in your field of vision.

4:42Jenn Cutter: You can pin it. You can have it move with you. It's a 57-degree field of view, which gives you a nice, good, large monitor that you can see. And then the rest of the world is around it. There's no pass-through because they're just glasses. You have Bose-tuned audio coming from speakers in the temples of the glasses if you want, or you can just use your headphones paired with your device. The Xreal One Pro sell for$649. There's a discount if you pre-order before the end of the month. And you'll be able to get an optional Xreal i camera that can slot in above the nose pads if you want to do some photo or video capture.

5:17Jenn Cutter: That is$99. It also gives six degrees of freedom motion tracking and stuff like that. Next year is when we get real extended reality glasses from Meta and others. Xreal plans to release true AR glasses with Google next year. We've got more products to talk about, but let's stop here, Jen. What do you think of basically a monitor on your face? Yeah, I am so glad that you have tried one. And also, that's kind of amazing that a product at CES is actually launching in the year in the window. That's not always nice. They said it was actually going to do. It's like, oh, well, they are definitely confident then.

5:52So you have this on your face and you can see the things and And it's lighter than an actual VR headset. But is that enough to make you use it?

6:01Jenn Cutter: I am going to try it. I tried it at CES and I'm like, okay, I get it. It's putting my monitor in front of me. I can pin it so that I'm like at a workstation and got that feel of looking away from the monitor. Or I could have it follow me if I'm like, no, I just want to be really focused. And even if I move, I want it to move with me. So you got options. It's great in situations where you are space constrained, but you want a big monitor, especially when you're traveling, right? So not just on an airplane, but I think it would be useful there. But also if you're in a hotel and you don't want to carry a big old monitor with you, but you want to use something bigger than your laptop's screen, they also don't have battery problems because they just take their electricity from your device.

6:44Jenn Cutter: So they might run your device's battery down a little more, but they're never going to run out of battery. Yeah, travel was definitely my first thought, or if you really wanted to work in bed and not annoy your partner, I guess. Or have a bigger screen when you're sitting down, laying down. Yeah. Is this anything you would ever use kind of walking around? I don't think so. I feel like this is for stationary use. I mean, I suppose I could have a video playing when I'm walking the dog, maybe. Like, I hadn't thought about that. So maybe, but yeah, all the use cases I could think of are stationary.

7:23Yeah, because I was thinking like, okay, this might be a legitimately cool way to play Pokemon Go.

7:29Jenn Cutter: I could use them. Ooh, you know what I could use them for? Promptor. So I have a monitor, you know, sitting right in front of my camera, but the camera isn't blocked by it, you know? That's interesting. All right, we got a few others here. Eufy is launching the Smart Display E10, meant to let you monitor and control your security devices. It can show you up to four feeds simultaneously, obviously from things like cameras and doorbells, but also feeds that are of information, like from your smart locks or your Eufy home base. It has an 8-inch touchscreen, 4050 mAh battery, so you can move it around.

8:06Jenn Cutter: You can take it with you. Battery can last more than 24 hours on a charge. Comes with a charging station and a wall stand as well. Available June 30th for$200. Yeah, for people who are investing in this stuff now, it seems like the system to buy, I haven't seen anyone coming in at that price point because I have been looking for something like this for my parents. They're like, oh, what should I get? Should I get this? And I was like, let's get something that we can manage personally. And yeah, no, I'm looking at it. I'm looking at it pretty hard. Anchor makes Eufy. I like Anchor stuff. I have not tried any Eufy stuff directly, but they have a decent reputation.

8:45Jenn Cutter: The thing about this product is you have to be in the Eufy world. Like all your stuff has to be Eufy or you have to have enough stuff that's Eufy to make this worthwhile. Garmin's on a roll with new devices announcing a new sleep tracking band that you wear on your upper arm, hopefully to make it more comfortable. The Garmin Index Sleep Monitor is what it's called. It has motion sensors and an optical heart rate sensor. So along with sleep, it can track heart rate, temperature, breathing, gives you a sleep score every morning, of course. and it can run up to seven days on a charge. Available now for$170.

9:16This I legitimately love. I used to, for people who've been into kind of fitness tech for a very long time. Also at CES, many, many years ago, there was a company called Body Media. They eventually got bought out by Jawbone, and you may have heard of them because of all the lawsuits about patent infringement by Fitbit and stuff. But they had an armband, so they gave me one to test, and they let me test it for free for a year. and I liked it enough that I paid for it for the next three years. Because it was an armband, you just really didn't think about it. It was the first one that actually worked with hockey.

9:52Yeah, which was great until I was still playing contact hockey at the time. So, you know, you did feel that thing on your shoulder when you got hit. But otherwise, for people who need this kind of night data, and it is a lot of people, like if you're using a CPAP machine, sometimes you want just a secondary device. If you are like a lot of people who cannot sleep with something on your wrist, I highly recommend checking out armbands. It is a world of difference.

10:15Jenn Cutter: Finally, not a product announcement, but an announcement meant to help you trust buying someone's products again. Wyze, W-Y-Z-E, announced Verified View, which embeds your user ID into the metadata of photos and videos from its smart home devices and matches it to your account before playback. So it won't play it unless it's the account that matches the embedded user ID. WISE has suffered both vulnerabilities that could let unauthorized people see camera feeds, but also bugs that showed people feeds other than their own by mistake. Verified View is the latest in a series of security improvements from WISE, including bug bounties requiring multi-factor authentication and proactively monitoring their networks for security threats.

10:58Jenn Cutter: It does not have plans to implement end-to-end encryption because it says that breaks integrations with third-party services like Amazon or Google Home, but they could add processing power to devices to do that locally. However, that would raise the price. And the whole deal with Wyze is they're affordably priced. Like I said, having been doing the research on this, this is a nice tidbit to add to my pile of, okay, maybe I can look at them again. Yeah, maybe it's worth at least giving them a second look. I think a lot of people just are like, you know what, I'm not going to use Wyze from now on.

11:33Jenn Cutter: Man, if they were just to bring an And encryption, I think that would allay a lot of concerns, but I get that that would raise the price because they would have to have different processors. They haven't entirely ruled it out. They're just saying, well, we need to figure out if we can up the processors first. We'll get back to you, basically. Not this gen, but we'll see. Not this gen. But this gen has something to tell you. I have to say that DTNS is made possible by you, the listener. Thanks to Jeff Wilkes, Pele Glendale, Paul Rees, and James Corbett.

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12:51Mod.com is changing the way people battle excessive fatigue. Ever hit a wall in the middle of the day and a third coffee just doesn't do it anymore? Here's what's actually happening. Coffee only briefly blocks adenosine, the chemical that tires you out. When it stops working, your system is flooded and you crash. Modafinil is a prescription treatment that works in a completely different way. Modafinil works by stimulating multiple receptors in the brain associated with wakefulness, including dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine, histamine, glutamate, and orexin. It's a more complete solution that gives you 10 to 12 hours of steady focus and energy.

13:33To learn more, go to mod.com. Fill out your intake form, meet with a licensed provider, and if approved, ModAlert ships straight to your door. Go to mod.com to get started. That's M-O-D dot com.

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15:29Jenn Cutter: There's more we need to know today. Let's get right into the briefs. Microsoft Xbox president Sarah Bond announced Tuesday that it will partner with AMD to develop custom chips for the next generation of Xbox systems, confirming yet again that it plans to keep making Xbox consoles. AMD made chips for the current generation of Xbox and Sony PlayStation consoles, while NVIDIA made the chips for Nintendo. I got a question for you, Jen. I was talking to Scott Johnson on the morning stream about this, and we were like, yeah, AMD has been making the chips for the last couple of generations of Xboxes as well as PlayStations.

16:03Jenn Cutter: And unless you were really buying the conspiracy theories that Microsoft was getting out of the console business, Microsoft has been saying they're going to make another console. So why is this making so much buzz? I think it is because of the fact that chip makers and like knowing the names of chip makers went mainstream. Like my dad, who's in IT, obviously, like we'd been talking about this stuff since I was a kid. But, you know, I've had my cousins say like, oh, like, should I get this architecture or this architecture? And I'm like, you have never asked me anything remotely this technical before.

16:34So now that people know the names, it's just it spreads as news. Yeah.

16:39Jenn Cutter: No, I think you've nailed it. That makes perfect sense to me is that we're all like, yeah, we've known this forever, but there's a lot of people who are just finding out about that kind of thing. Yeah, makes a lot of sense. Amazon CEO Andy Jassy wrote in a memo to employees Tuesday, quote, we will need fewer people doing some of the jobs that are being done today and more people doing other types of jobs. Now, if you stop right there, that's like, yeah, all right. However, he continued, It's hard to know exactly where this nets out over time, but in the next few years, we expect that this will reduce our total corporate workforce, which immediately created the headlines.

17:16Jenn Cutter: Jassy says AI will let them get rid of people. Jassy did encourage employees in the memo to learn how to get more done with scrappier teams, basically saying, learn these tools, figure out new ways to do stuff. Honda Motor Company successfully flew an experimental rocket to 900 feet on Tuesday, then landed it vertically back on the ground near a test facility in Hokkaido in northern Japan. The flight lasted 57 seconds and successfully retracted and deployed landing gear and flight fins. It is the first reusable rocket demonstration outside China and the U.S. Honda says it expects to conduct a suborbital launch by 2029.

17:55Jenn Cutter: You go JAXA, the Japanese space agency is pretty good. It gives me something else to think about in relation to Hokkaido other than Hokkaido cream, which is also amazing. The European Commission issued a formal list of complaints against Alibaba's AliExpress e-commerce service Wednesday. The EC has been investigating violations of the Digital Services Act by Alibaba since March 2024. The allegations include failing to properly moderate the goods sold and therefore enforce its penalty policy against sellers who post illegal products. They're basically saying they're turning a blind eye to the stuff that it shouldn't be allowed to be sold in Europe.

18:35Jenn Cutter: AliExpress has committed to changes to improve its systems. But, you know, lest you think that Europe only investigates U.S. companies, they're investigating a Chinese one. On Tuesday, an Israeli organization claimed on X to have breached Iran's bank's CEPA and destroyed data. Iran International reported banking disruptions within the country, and several bank CEPA branches were closed on Tuesday. Meanwhile, Iran has begun restricting access to some Internet services, including WhatsApp and VPNs used to access some foreign sites, as well as reducing Internet speeds by as much as 80 percent. A government spokesperson said Iran is taking action to thwart actions and attacks coming through the Internet.

19:19Jenn Cutter: Yeah, a lot of people reporting anecdotally widespread Internet outages and slow speeds. There's a lot going on, so it's really hard to tell what's actually happening. But clearly, Internet issues and Dow Detector and others can back that up. A couple of U.S. government moves affecting tech. The president of the United States said he will sign an executive order extending for 90 days yet again the non-enforcement of a law that would otherwise prohibit U.S. companies from distributing the TikTok app. So that's still going. The previous extension was set to expire on Thursday, June 19th. And the U.S.

19:57Jenn Cutter: Senate passed the Genius Act, which establishes rules for U.S. dollar-pegged stablecoins and enables private companies to issue them. Or would, if it becomes law, the act now needs to gain approval in the U.S. House. The reason that one's worth paying attention to is we previously reported on banks and other companies talking about issuing their own stablecoins or using stablecoins to make faster payments. We talked about Shopify, for example, doing that. And some of the companies that are holding back on stablecoins were waiting to see if the Genius Act passes. So it's kind of look for that. If this does end up getting signed into law, then you might see more companies start to do this.

20:39In a podcast published Tuesday, OpenAI CEO Sam Altman told his brother Jack that Meta has been offering employees from OpenAI and Google DeepMind salary packages with$100 million signing bonuses to come work for Meta. OpenAI's Altman said, quote, none of our best people have decided to take him up on that.

21:02Jenn Cutter: Netflix once said it would never do linear television. So put that in the pile of things it once said it would never do like ads. Netflix has agreed to partner with TF1. TF1 essentially has its roots in France's first public television station back in the 30s. It is France's largest TV group. And Netflix will be able to carry not only its live channels, but all its on-demand content as well. TF1 will also continue to offer its content on its own streaming platform. But this is a big and surprising deal. And I think everyone's curious now if Netflix is just doing this in France or if they would plan to do this in other countries as well.

21:39Yeah, I liked hearing that TF1, like for people who don't have Netflix, you're not being locked out of TF1. You still get all of your stuff, but now it's just and also.

21:50Jenn Cutter: Yeah, it's just another way to access it, which I think is going to build. I mean, it's France, so it's not going to build too much goodwill, but it's going to build a little more goodwill for Netflix in France than they've had in the past. Google's Search Live feature is now available in the Google app for Android and iOS in the US. You'll need to enable it in Google Labs. It lets you speak to the search engine and have it answer you back in voice. Oh, yeah, like just a real-time convo. And then Threads has added a section to the following tab that shows posts from people you follow in the Fediverse.

22:23Jenn Cutter: So Mastodon, Flipboard, etc. It's a simple reverse chronological feed. And if you haven't already, you would need to opt in to share your post to the Fediverse for this to show up. Those are the essentials for today. Let's dive a little deeper. There are multiple efforts to restore payphones in the U.S. using modified hardware and the Internet to carry the calls. We talked to Patrick Schlott of Rantel in Vermont about how he's doing it and why. Patrick Schlott, thanks for joining me, man. Tom, thanks for having me. So I bet a lot of people are wondering, why would you do this? Why do you want to restore payphones?

23:00Jenn Cutter: And also, who uses them? Yeah, it's definitely – I'm glad you said that. It is sort of an off-the-wall question to bring up. And it brings me back to the first install that I did at the North Tunbridge General Store where I had to go to the owner and my wife and I had been visiting them for a while. And I sort of said, hey, you ever thought about putting a payphone outside? And he's like, no. No, not once. But yeah, so I'll give you that as sort of the anecdote. But it comes – why am I doing this? It stems from a general interest in old telephone technology. So I had been – I like old technology from a base level.

23:43That includes phones, old radios, things like that, vintage computers. So two of my uncles worked for the Bell system back in the day, Western Electric. What we now know is AT &T. it's been divested and merged and everything so many times. But my uncle Bob would have, you know, parts from old job sites, like, you know, phone pieces from the forties. And one of those ended up in my parents' garage. So when I was helping them clean out a few years ago, I found this old receiver with the hook set. And I'm the type of person that I don't really plan my projects. I sort of happen upon something and I go, oh, that's kind of neat.

24:18Let's make something out of it. So I was sort of workshopping, like, let me, and at the same time, a coworker had given me a rotary dial, like just the dial from an old phone. So I was tinkering, like, okay, I've got that dial. I've got this. And it's like, I have, I'm close to making something happen. What could I do with this? And it was around that time I discovered the Futel and Filtel projects in Portland and Pennsylvania, respectively. And I said, okay, people have done this. I could really, I could make something happen. So it, the rest is history as they say, but it stemmed from an interest and I guess fascination, um, with old telephone technology and wanting to play with it because it's like, I could get into collecting phones, but having them take up space and sort of sit on the shelf and gather dust is sad because they still work.

25:06There's a lot of, there's a lot of power in having, you know, something that was built to last outside for five decades. So I think putting it to use again is perfect. It's better than collecting it.

25:18Jenn Cutter: And you've got stats that people use them. Yeah, absolutely. I will get to that because the results will surprise you. But why am I doing this? It's kind of a labor of love. It's a passion. I like seeing old technology work again. And also in a place as unique as Vermont, it is a powerful, important public service. We have lots of stretches of the state without cell phone coverage. You know, sort of the last mile, you know, communications. It's not always that reliable. It's spotty. And there's the emergency aspect, but then there's also like people should just be able to make a phone call when they want to make a phone call.

25:58That I think is something we've lost in the, uh, you know, the kind of world of, um, public telecommunications. Um, so the, I'm trying to, I'm trying to think of the stats. I have the stats for the Tunbridge phone on my website for the first year. It was the first like eight months. Cause I, um, around that time, one of the stories in the local papers had dropped and I figured I better put something up to say, you know, or, or that's what it was. It was the, it was the end of 2024. Wasn't quite a year since the install, but I said, I'll do a little year in review kind of thing. And I think we had like 250, 254 off hook events.

26:38Almost 200 of those were successful outgoing calls. I attribute that a lot to somebody sees a number they don't recognize, they're not going to answer it. So there's a lot of psychology involved with that. There's technology, but it's also, okay, are calls completing or what's going on?

26:56Jenn Cutter: Um, do you think a lot of people use them just to try it or, or is there as much people like, oh, this, this is useful. I needed this right now. So I think it's both. I think it's, I think it's a gimmick you'll see, you know, 30 to 40 seconds is like, hi, I'm on a payphone. Oh, that's me. You need no regs. Um, but you know, there's, uh, just anecdotally from, I'm, I'm sure the librarians could tell you more. But in Thetford, the big thing there is that the school that's directly adjacent to the library is banning smartphones. I don't know exactly where they are in the process. I think they may have already done it.

27:34So kids have no way to call home to pick up rides, no easy way to coordinate that. So that was sort of the thing that spearheaded the library phone going in. So I know for a fact that kids are using that phone to call home. So that's like a real, we actually need this. This isn't just a novelty, which is really the whole reason I'm doing it. Novelty is fun. I don't want to dump on the nostalgia factor because that, you know, obviously. Yeah, sure. Because I could have put any old phone out there, but pay phones are cool. Somebody sees that and they instantly go, all right, that's for me. I know what that is.

28:06Or hopefully you're old enough to know what it is. And if not, you'll learn.

28:09Jenn Cutter: And we're saying pay phone, but you don't collect money on these. They just work, right? No, I pay for the service. You pick up, you get a dial tone. you dial anywhere in the lower 48. Actually, no. It's US. I forget the routing off the top of my head. It's all the United States plus Canada. Yeah, okay. I imagine we could talk for a long time about the hardware, but if you had to summarize it for people who are curious, are you just putting a modem in there? What's the modification inside? What makes the magic happen is what the phone industry folks out there will know as an ATA. I've heard it referred to as an analog terminal adapter or analog telephone adapter.

28:50So basically, that's a – it uses the SIP session initiation protocol. It uses the SIP protocol to basically phone home to the telephone server, and it provides a POTS line, you know, POTS, plain old telephone system on the other end. And depending on the type of phone, on the type of payphone hardware, it'll just plug in and work with a regular dial tone. It doesn't need any special modification. but it depends on the phone. The Western Electric 1D2, for anybody out there that knows what that is, it's a 1970s through the 1990s, what the phone industry would call a dumb phone, where all of the smarts for rating the call, collecting or returning coins was all done at the phone company's central office.

29:38So they actually sent high voltage down the line to fire the relay to return the coins. there was there's something inside called a totalizer which you know detects the coins going in any freaks out there will know that that's what you know allowed red boxing to happen or you you know play tones into the receiver and get free calls but that doesn't work anymore

29:57Jenn Cutter: you get the free calls with your phones anyway yeah you can get the free calls anyway you're welcome to play red box tones i think that's i think that's rad but um but yeah so it's uh it's primarily the ATA. And then the project relies on the host being gracious enough to just give me an internet connection. Is that wired or Wi-Fi or does it matter? I can work with either. I prefer wired because it's a little more reliable. It's not another point of failure. But yeah, I have done wireless or wired and I'm always testing stuff. I've got stuff in the basement. I'm testing like 4G LTE modems to see like how reliable that is.

30:34I've been burned enough in the past where I, you know, put something together and try to demonstrate something cool. And, you know, rule number one of demonstrations is don't try. No, but that's part of the lesson is like, always make sure you really flesh it out. Test the edge cases, test the stuff, even if you don't think it matters. Um, so yeah, yeah. A, uh, wired or wireless internet connection. Sometimes I use an appliance router in between cause the ATAs don't have wireless themselves. Um, and then, And yeah, it's just provisioning with the VoIP server. And I've been pretty lucky that most of the phones I've used haven't need extensive modifications.

31:10Jenn Cutter: So yeah, let's finish up with the VoIP part of it. How does the software work? What are you actually connecting to? So I pay for phone service using an upstream VoIP provider. So the secret is, and some of the other projects are different, like Futel and Filtel. I'm not, this is, you'll get the inside baseball here. for now i am not actually using a pbx the ata is going direct to the provider so um it's something i'm hoping to change in the future just because you know as more and more phones go out into the wild um you know anything like a literal service call is going to be harder you know um and so far everything's been really reliable but if i ever have to go out i want to be able to just vpn in from home and whatnot.

31:56But yeah, it's just, I, I wanted a good proof of concept at the Tunbridge store. I wasn't even sure, you know, how long it was going to last or if they were going to tell me to take it down or whatever. And they were, and that their tune changed really quick. I think Mike at the Tunbridge store was like, let's do it. Let's do it. See if it works. If it's a problem goes away, I'm like, that's totally fine with me. I don't want to be a burden. I don't want to, you know, make this be a problem for you or your business. And then people loved it. And they were like, oh yeah, let's keep this going. So that was sort of my plan from the beginning was like, let me do the most stupid, simple way I can get public telephones out there.

32:34And then as it picks up and gets more complicated, I'll think about starting a PBX server. And I'm at that point right now. I'm getting emails from all over. People are interested. So I'm going to have to think about changing my strategy a little bit. But the original plan is working for now.

32:51Jenn Cutter: That's great. Patrick, thank you so much for chatting with us. I know there's a good section of the audience that's going to have a lot of questions about this. If they want to find out more, where should they go? You should drive to Vermont, pick up one of the phones and dial zero. Yeah. Just dial the operator. I mean, no, I'm kidding. I mean, I'm not. You could do that. You could do that. And some of them are in Vermont. So there you go. Yeah. And no, you should go to rantel.co. That's R-A-N-D-T-E-L dot C-O, like telco. And, you know, you visit my website to learn more or email operator at rantel dot C-O.

33:29Jenn Cutter: Patrick, thank you so much, man. It was good talking to you. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Hey, what do you want to hear us talk about on the show? We'd love to hear your ideas. One way to let us know is our subreddit. You can head on over to reddit.com slash r slash daily tech news show to vote on stories and submit them.

33:50Blowing ad budget on metrics that look great till the CFO sees them. That's bull spend. And marketers are calling it out in Dashboard Confessions. I remember telling my boss, it'll be good for the brand when leads were slow. Yeah, it wasn't. Cut the bull spend. LinkedIn lets you target by company, job title, and more. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend$250 on your first campaign and get a$250 credit. Go to linkedin.com slash campaign in terms and conditions apply. Mod.com is changing the way people battle excessive fatigue. Ever hit a wall in the middle of the day and a third coffee just doesn't do it anymore?

34:31Here's what's actually happening. Coffee only briefly blocks adenosine, the chemical that tires you out. When it stops working, your system is flooded and you crash. Modafinil is a prescription treatment that works in a completely different way. Modafino works by stimulating multiple receptors in the brain associated with wakefulness, including dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine, histamine, glutamate, and orexin. It's a more complete solution that gives you 10 to 12 hours of steady focus and energy. To learn more, go to mod.com. Fill out your intake form, meet with a licensed provider, and if approved, ModAlert ships straight to your door.

35:13Go to mod.com to get started. That's M-O-D dot com.

35:46Jenn Cutter: And the results need to follow the existing laws about open publishing. Definitely support you on the open publishing. And I like the idea of encouraging more replication and verification of science. I think that's an interesting idea, no? What are you thinking about? Have you got some insight into a story? Please share it with us over at feedback at dailytechnewsshow.com. A big thanks to Patrick Schlott. He was a pleasure to talk to. Thanks for Inan Jr. contributing to today's show as well. Thank you for being along for Daily Tech News Show. No episode tomorrow. It's a holiday in the U.S., but we will be back on Friday.

36:21Jenn Cutter: Talk to you then.

36:28The DTNS family of podcasts. Helping each other understand.

36:33Jenn Cutter: Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this program. I threw myself off with changing how we do the intro. Blowing ad budget on metrics that look great till the CFO sees them. That's bull spend. And marketers are calling it out in Dashboard Confessions. I remember telling my boss, it'll be good for the brand when leads were slow. Yeah, it wasn't. Cut the bull spend. LinkedIn lets you target by company, job title, and more. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend$250 on your first campaign and get a$250 credit. go to linkedin.com slash campaign terms and conditions apply. Some days getting the work done isn't the problem.

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