Cloudflare’s New Marketplace Charges AI Scraper Bots - DTNSB 5051

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3:22This is the Daily Tech News for Tuesday, July 1st, 2025. We tell you what you need to know, follow up on the context of those stories and help each other understand. Oh, my friends today, Justin Robert Young is going to tell us why the U.S. Congress did an entire about face on prohibiting AI regulations, and Cloudflare is giving publishers new tools for better control over AI crawlers. I'm Jason Howell. I'm Tom Merritt. Let's start with what you need to know with a big story. All right. I'm very curious about how this develops. Cloudflare has announced a new marketplace, its new marketplace, that's designed to give publishers more control over their data at a time when AI crawlers are looking everywhere for more data sources with which to train their models.

4:13Cloudflare is rolling out new tools to kind of give its users more control over what kind of access AI bots have to their data and then even go one step further to monetizing that access. Cloudflare is going to automatically block AI bots from crawling its clients' websites by default. So that's the default, allowing site owners to control how their content is accessed by those bots. And then the company is also introducing a pay-per-crawl system so that its clients can set rates to be compensated when an AI bot wants access to the site's content. This includes granular controls for allowing or restricting different types of actions, things like training, fine-tuning, or inference.

5:01Maybe you feel okay with one, but not all of the above, that sort of thing, as well as giving owners the ability to whitelist specific crawlers. So a whole lot more control. And I think the upside here is that publishers have a technological resource to basically ensure that their work is credited and compensated for something that's coming up time and time again as relates to these AI models and how they are trained and everything. I think the downside here is that default bands like this could limit research. It could limit archival, the quality of the AI models themselves. But I think this is interesting because we're looking for solutions.

5:42I think a lot of people, especially when dealing with content creators and publishers and everything, looking for solutions to retain the value of the work that's being done here. And this seems to be happening almost on a network level. instead of creating a system where everybody agrees to participate. Now it's like, well, we can get in at the base layer, and you still need to kind of choose to participate to some degree. But it's an interesting solution nonetheless. What do you think? Yeah, so many sites. I don't know what the percentage is right off the top of my head, but a large majority of sites use Cloudflare somehow.

6:17Usually we use it to help prevent denial-of-service attacks. They provide a free service that does that. So this is easy for websites and publishers to get into. And then it is trying to make it easy for publishers to say, great, yeah, we'll pay. And it really could become the AdSense of Cloudflare. It has the possibility to become the marketplace where people do this. It also has the possibility for the publishers to not participate or the AI purveyors to not participate. They could both participate and just not be able to ever agree on a price. And then it ends up just never taking off that way.

7:08But unlike a lot of micropayment systems that had been promoted in the past, you've got a lot of people on board for this already. you've got a lot of people who are already in the system they're already going to have the the robots txt file now default off for these kind of crawlers you're certainly going to have ai companies that don't play nice and try to get around cloud flare detecting them but the big ones won't uh they they will get caught if they do that and they won't want that kind of backlash so you know the the anthropics the open ai is there they're all going to be be able to you know be subject to this and And they will have enough money to, at a certain point, if it's really an open marketplace and it works well, have publishers make some money off of this.

7:57Yeah, I think the big question, as you point out, is are the publishers going to want to participate slash will they be satisfied with the deal that they're able to negotiate through this system? Are the AI companies suddenly okay for paying for something that they've until now scraped for free for right or for wrong? There's definitely a lot of questions around this. I find with topics like this that I find myself conflicted on this kind of area of the value of content versus the value of a properly trained AI model. Because I am a creator. We are both creators here. I definitely recognize the value of the work that I do, and I always want to be compensated for it, so I get that side.

8:45Then on the other hand, I also really want comprehensive AI models, models that have a comprehensive view of everything and aren't limited, which if people get too controlling over the data that is rightfully theirs, I'm not saying that it's not, but then we end up with models that aren't as good as they could possibly be in a future that seems so painted by AI being the next big kind of transition in technology. Yeah, I tend to think, and feedback at dailytechnewsshow.com, if you've got good evidence that I'm off base here, but I tend to think this is going to be less about the training side of things.

9:27For one thing, cat's out of the barn there. I don't know why the cat was in the barn instead of a horse in my metaphor, but nevertheless, it is out of the barn. And there's a lot of work being done with synthetic data and chain of thought and things where you don't really need all of the data for the training. Where this seems to be valuable to me is in the, what happened yesterday? Or can you find me the latest research on and agents going out and saying, well, let me find the Wall Street Journal article and the New York Times article and the BBC article and the Deutsche Welle article and pulling those together and making a report for you.

10:09And that's the thing where the publisher can say, oh, yeah, robot. But you can't report that to your agent unless you give me 0.02 cents for every link you pull. And then it's a matter of just the makers of the models saying, well, this is worth this much money to us because we have this many users asking for that and we want your high quality stuff. And the publisher saying, yes, that is the price we can agree on in this open model. And it can all happen automatically. The publishers can set a range and say, this is the price we need. And then they can do – that's why it reminds me of AdSense.

10:48They can do automatic bargaining to reach an agreement on what those prices should be. Yeah, that's a really great point, especially at a time where so much of the web and the monetization of the web has been built around ads on pages, publishers creating content to bring people there to see the ads to pay them the money. And when you've got a bunch of AI agents trouncing the web, all searching for the information on behalf of the user, how do you then monetize that traffic? And that's what this is all about. I can imagine a world, if this works, where there are dark versions of websites meant specifically to make the agents work better so that you can make money off of them.

11:31I could see that too. Like a version of the website that already exists where people are presenting versions of websites that are optimized for AI crawlers if they want that sort of thing. And I can see that becoming the new SEO is like creating those optimized sites. Yeah. Fascinating stuff. Well, be sure to come out to the show tomorrow because Andy Beach is going to be on the show talking about UK broadcasters like the BBC and Sky and how they are dealing with this exact issue. DTNS is made possible by you, the listener. Big thanks to Howard Yermish, John Atwood, Pat, and Jason Strapin. We've got a bunch of new patrons.

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16:24There is more we need to know today. Let's get to the briefs. Apple is considering a big shift in its AI strategy, according to Bloomberg's Mark Gurman, which could potentially replace its in-house AI models for Siri with the likes of an Anthropic model or something from OpenAI. Apple has reportedly asked both companies to train custom versions of their models that could run on Apple's infrastructure. That would mean Apple controls your user data, not OpenAI or Anthropic, and therefore can control your privacy, while also improving Siri's capabilities. Internal testing reportedly showed Claude from Anthropic to be the better fit so far for Siri's needs.

17:02Apple also has not ruled out the possibility of working with other partners or even continuing on with its own models. It's just trying it out to see, is this better or not? Yeah. I just keep wondering, and maybe it's silly, why Apple doesn't just buy what it needs. That's also going on, right? They're trying to figure out how to buy somebody like perplexity, right? Yeah, totally. Totally. That just seems like, for me, that seems like the smarter long-term approach for a company like Apple. I mean, because obviously Apple has the money. easy for me to say i don't work there i don't know but but from the outside looking in it seems like they would have the money to be able to buy their way into it and this technology is really seems so important to the industry right now i'd just be really surprised if apple doesn't prefer to own it outright instead of kind of relying on on this this type of relationship for something this important well it's not an either or right this this is apple looking at what's better and going should we buy or would it be better to rent in this particular case?

18:09Like, remember, they used to have Google as their Maps provider and then decided, you know what? It would be better to own it. And everyone else said, no, it's not. And then years later, it got better. But, you know, it's going to be a different answer for different things. So I think you're right. I think they'll probably end up buying. But they're going to try this to see like, well, maybe we shouldn't. Yeah. Smart. The sale of 23andMe has been approved by a bankruptcy judge to the nonprofit TTAM, that's 23andMe Research Institute, led by none other than 23andMe's co-founder, Ann Wojcicki. This follows an earlier bid by Regeneron Pharmaceuticals.

18:52That led to two dozen states suing to stop the deal to avoid the transfer of DNA information as property. It kind of opened up this whole kind of question of like, well, DNA data is different because you can't change it after the fact. It's locked in place. The$305 million winning bid here will keep the data under the control of the original founders, where it will be used for medical research while also keeping its privacy policies intact. So I'm sure there are a lot of people breathing a sigh of relief. Past customers can also choose to have their data deleted. So there you go. I got the little note that said, hey, if you've already deleted your data, you can ignore this.

19:32But if you didn't, here's who owns your data. Yeah. Oh, that's great. I mean, this probably makes a lot of people happy. It was more like, we now own your data and we're not a big pharmaceutical company like Regeneron. It was basically the gist of it, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Google has pulled the plug on the Google Keep app for Apple Watch OS with an update on Monday that removes watchOS support. Google now supports only Google Calendar Maps and YouTube Music for the Apple Watch. So not a lot of cross support between the watches these days. Not that there was much coming from the Apple side anyway.

20:10No word on why Google Keep was deprecated, though. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm not obviously, or maybe not obvious to a lot of people listening, but I am not an iOS user. I've been Android since the day one, pretty much. And I don't know, I'm just kind of surprised, I guess, when I read this. I was like, well, wait a minute, isn't Google? Google really does want to be in all the things. And the Keep app still exists for iOS and iPad. I imagine it would be useful on the Apple Watch. I just don't understand. I guess you got to make cuts somewhere, but I don't know. It could just be usage. to me. It could be there's just not enough Apple Watch users using Keep, and they're like, we're spending a lot of money maintaining something that not enough people are using.

20:50And I'm sure Apple Watch has its obvious kind of go-to for this sort of thing, and it's probably created by Apple too, or maybe it's not. I'm not sure. Grammarly has acquired AI-powered email startup Superhuman for an undisclosed sum. So we don't have the figures necessarily, but we do know that the company was valued, Superhuman was valued at $825 million back in 2021. So that gives you any sort of idea of value anyways. Superhuman CEO Rahul Vora and more than 100 employees are going to join Grammarly. And now they're going to have more resources. So they continue to build out their suite of enterprise products related to Superhuman, obviously the email product, but also things like calendar tasks, collaboration tools.

21:35Grammarly is just kind of using this as a way to really expand its offering. Grammarly had recently secured a$1 billion round of funding, by the way. So this is almost certainly a part of that. Yeah, I think it makes sense. Where Grammarly is probably used a lot is in constructing emails. So having more email tools in the fold is a way to expand that business. It is Grammarly moving beyond its core functionality, but not in a ridiculous way. Yeah. And I mean, they've been, Grammarly, this kind of blew me away, around since 2009. So they've been doing this for quite a long time. I honestly thought they were a much more recent company than that.

22:15You know, I know they've been around for a long time, but I also did not realize it was 16 years. People are getting their driver's licenses who've lived their whole lives with Grammarly. And Superhuman, I've heard good things. I have not used, I don't know if you've used Superhuman before. No, I haven't. I am like swimming in email purgatory right now. And so, you know, service like that, you know, I've heard that it takes a little while to kind of get used to how it's done. But once you kind of get over the kind of growing pains of what does it do with it? What is it? It's a good thing. Yeah, it's a good question.

22:50My limited understanding of it, based on talking to a friend here in Petaluma that has been using it for a while, is just that it uses kind of AI to help you better manage what things are most important, what things rise to the top, how you interact with those things. Because I get so much inbound email and I get swallowed by it. And I know that I'm missing out on things because of that. And so it sounds like something like Superhuman is a way to kind of filter through that. Well, that is exciting. And Nintendo wants you to get even more excited about the upcoming release of Donkey Kong Bonanza.

23:25Remember that's spelled like banana. Bananza. For the Switch 2. To make sure you're excited, they revealed the game has been developed by the same team behind the mega hit Super Mario Odyssey. Nintendo made the announcement at a preview event for the new game, which is scheduled to hit your shelves on July 17th, next to the space where the Switch 2 would have been if it hadn't sold out. right uh i do not have the switch to i did watch gameplay footage of this though and it does look like a heck of a lot of fun it looks like a lot of destruction combined with super mario so uh interesting stuff well the way back machine one of my all-time favorite internet creations is about to hit a major milestone it's nearing one trillion web pages archived one trillion the internet archive is planning an event in san francisco and on the web for october 22nd 2025 25 you can rsvp for that i threw in my rsvp i was like heck if they want to if they want to invite me to that event i will totally go because i just i love the internet archive and i hope it never goes away tell them i said hi uh i have been a donator to the internet archive through the entire run of daily tech news show uh large portions of it were hosted on the internet archive in the early days so yeah i have a fond feelings for them as well hey remember yesterday when i said everyone thought the AI prohibition in the U.S.

24:48budget bill would probably stay in, but there was a chance it could get changed or stripped out. Well, this is why you all, I actually think of you, Jason, whenever someone says, so you're saying there's a chance. It's just locked in there. I cannot get it. It's just permanent. This is why you do that. It got entirely removed by a vote of 99 to one. I'm going to talk to Justin Robert Young here in a few minutes to explain what happened behind the scenes. But here's the short version. Senator Marsha Blackburn, state of Tennessee, has a law that protects an artist's name, likeness, and voice from being copied by AI.

25:23It's called the Ensuring Likeness Voice and Image Security, aka Elvis Act, because Tennessee. Senator Ted Cruz of Texas, who had championed the prohibition, got her to compromise on a version that reduced the term to five years and made exemptions for laws meant for protecting children and for things like copyright, like the Elvis Act. That's what we told you yesterday. She's like, oh, they've compromised. Looks like it's going to stay in. Temporarily, Senator Blackburn supported that revised provision until the backlash from constituents was large enough that she went back to opposing it. Now, if you're curious who the one senator who voted to leave it in was, it was Senator Tom Tillis of North Carolina, who announced on Sunday he wasn't running for re-election.

26:09So he's just doing whatever he wants. but 99 to 1 uh i mean yeah i was gonna say it doesn't get more decisive than that but it does actually with one more yeah uh that would be a hundred um they really shoehorned that into elvis didn't they they were like we've got to get something to work with elvis right they're always so good uh but yeah so interesting i have been saying that this would probably not stay in And I was thinking that because I didn't think it was finance related. But then we found out like, well, it's not a law against regulation. It's saying you won't get your broadband funding if you do regulate.

26:51But then I was still a part of me was like, I don't know. I just think this is really unpopular. But maybe they can just shepherd it in. And it turned out, no, they could not. Yeah, indeed. I'm super curious to hear what Justin Robert Young has to say about all this. Yes. We often dive a little deeper into a topic at this point in the show. So let's do that right now on this AI law that didn't happen. Yep. Tom spoke with Justin Robert Young just this morning and tells us a little bit about the why behind it. So let's circle back on that AI prohibition provision of the budget bill and maybe get a little sense from Justin Robert Young of politics, politics, politics of how this happened.

27:33I've already explained what happened. Blackburn was against it. Then she was for it. Then she's like, no, I'm against it. Can you give us a little deeper understanding of in the background how this goes from like pretty much going to pass to 99 to one? No, it's not going to be in there. That happens because this is a monstrosity of a bill. And the reason why it's a monstrosity of a bill is because nobody believed that with issues as divisive as border security, deportations, tax rates, Medicaid, and everything else that's in there that found its way in there, that you would ever be able to get people to vote on these things successfully separate.

28:22So for everything you hate, you've got at least one thing that you really, really love and you really, really want to run on. That's the reason why this became one big, beautiful bill. When that happens and you have slim majorities in both the House and the Senate, every person becomes a kingmaker. And so the AI provision became controversial after it left the House, coincidentally after Elon became publicly against the bill. Elon, for the record, somebody that has not only backed state legislation to curb AI development in California, but also called for AI development pause as he was starting his own AI company.

29:12but there hasn't really been a coherent narrative from anybody on the political in the political spectrum or even really the business side to explain why this was necessary why it had to go in right now it's largely just been something that was pushed by tech lobbyists and so when it started to lose altitude and you were getting into the absolute crunch time that's when these things can go from absolutely going to pass to let's strip it out of the bill if it means marcia blackburn is happier and i think what shocked people is well okay but it's got big tech on its side it's got the president on its side uh it's got uh seems like most of the congress on its side uh how does one senator uh swing that away and i guess the answer is sometimes things aren't as monolithic as they look yeah i mean those those are in the abstract very powerful forces but it is not the president's number one issue so he's for it because ted cruz had a conversation with him and he might have sent a truth social about how this is important but that's not something that he can't be talked out of yeah yeah tomorrow right uh tech is for it But this isn't really their best work.

30:38It's not something that they've put a lot of time and effort into. This was just sort of a catch-all to stop bills like the California bill that almost became law. So they're not messaging hard against it. It's not like OpenAI is not putting to every ChatGPT user like TikTok did. Yeah. Call your congressperson and tell them to pass this thing, right? This is not something that they are going hard on. It was an idea that found out it wasn't its time. What I suspect is that tech is going to come back and come up with something a little bit more tailored that it'll be the American dominance in AI act that can possibly be bipartisan, that will be stricter and more tailored to model regulation as opposed to no AI state regulation, which wound up raising the hackles of a lot of state AGs and governors that felt that this was a huge.

31:41stripping of their power so much so that senator cruz the the main champion ended up voting against it in the end which is i think stunning for a lot of folks too it should not be stunning if you follow politics this kind of stuff happens all the time uh the people that are the biggest and and really this was a thing that ted cruz was fighting for he was fighting a lot harder for another tech priority. And that was unlocking spectrum for sale at auction, which is something else that I think your listeners should very much pay attention to because it is going to have a bigger effect in the world of wireless technology.

32:20But that was his main priority. And he got that. This was kind of a stretch goal. Gotcha. Justin, thank you so much for helping us wrap our heads around this. I appreciate it. If folks want to get your political wisdom more often and directly about politics, Where should they go? We have a great episode with Kirk Beto that will be up today, Tuesday. Looking forward to the passage of the one big, beautiful bill. Will it get done by July 4th? We guide your way. And about 15 minutes of conversation about the Pittsburgh Steelers trade. As a bonus. That's perfect. Thanks, Justin. Appreciate it, man.

32:55Bye. Yay. Good to hear Justin's voice. Yeah, it's just it's so it's so crazy how quick these things turn and absolutely. don't count the tech companies out. They are going to come back with something else and it'll be interesting to see where that goes. But I think the other part of it is, don't think just because a tech company wants something, it always gets done, right? Yeah, totally. Especially nowadays. It's easy to think that's not true. Well, if you got a thought on this or a question you want us to pass along, join our Discord. You can do that by linking a Patreon account. Become a patron at patreon.com slash DTNS.

33:35With the Spark Cash Plus card from Capital One, you earn unlimited 2 % cash back on every purchase. And you get big purchasing power, so your business can spend more and earn more. Stephen, Brandon, and Bruno, the business owners of SandCloud, reinvested their 2 % cash back to help build the company's retail presence. Capital One, what's in your wallet? Find out more at CapitalOne.com slash Spark Cash Plus. Terms apply. When you're running a growing business, the right systems can unlock your full sales potential and make fulfilling every order effortless. Switch to ShipStation before peak season so you're prepped and ready before the rush hits.

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34:57Too many apps abused notification privileges in the past, and now I won't even give new apps the benefit of the doubt. It blows my mind when I see phones with dozens or hundreds of notifications, and I even know some people who just don't ever clear them. So it's just a constant background noise. No notifications. Thank you, Jeff. Gives me a visceral reaction when I think of notifications, because as important as they are for certain apps, which I think is largely what Jeff's point is here. They're very important with certain apps, but man, there is so much notification abuse. Every app sees its app as the most important thing on your phone.

35:34So of course, they want to remind you of it all the time. And if you aren't careful, it does get unruly. And yeah, I don't need them. But I'm surprised Jeff has Duolingo notifications on. That's the one where I'm like, I feel like they abuse the privilege so much. But everybody's got their exception. It's interesting. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. What are you thinking about? If you have some insight into a story we've covered or haven't covered, share it with us. Feedback at DailyTechNewsShow.com. Big thanks to Justin Robert Young and to Jeff for contributing to today's show. And thank you for being along for Daily Tech News Show.

36:08You can keep us in business by becoming a patron. That's Patreon.com slash DTNS. We'll talk to you tomorrow.

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