Five Eyes Security Give CISOs a Budget Weapon - DTNS 5294

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3:02this is the daily tech news for monday june 22nd 2026 we tell you what you need to know give you some important context and try our darndest to help each other understand today western cyber security heads warned that ai could bring down company defenses in months not years months yeah i've got an issue the way this is being reported but it's also this is an important one to pay attention to. I'm Tom Merritt. And I'm Rob Dunnwood. Let's start with what you need to know with that big story.

3:32The leaders of the cybersecurity agencies of Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the UK, and the US, aka the Five Eyes, issued a joint warning that, and I quote, frontier AI models are anticipated to exceed current industry expectations and that risk assumptions that these companies have, like how fast risk will build up as a result, can be outdated in months, not years. So in other words, you need to hurry up in changing your risk assumptions. This is getting reported as companies are going to be overwhelmed by attacks in months, which if none of the companies did anything might actually happen. The call is for existing best practices, though.

4:20They're saying, look, make your existing practices an urgent priority. And I'm going to quote again, integrate AI tools into your security operations, detect vulnerabilities earlier, improve software quality, monitor unusual behavior, and respond faster to incidents. They're really not saying that you have to do too much different, but they are saying you need to move faster. The post notes that breaches will occur. preparedness helps you contain them quickly and prevent escalation into major operational and financial crises. So they're not saying you're going to stop this because that's the way the security industry always works.

4:58They're like, you are going to have a breach. That's not new. It's you want to make sure that you can react as soon as you can to limit the damage. The other thing they wrote is success will not come from having the most tools. It will come from getting the basics right, acting quickly and integrating cybersecurity into core business strategy. So far in reading this, I was like, okay, so they're just telling you, you know, be better at the basics. The post does not name adversaries or talk about specific attacks. However, in a separate bulletin, the five security organizations also called Five Eyes noted that China's military intelligence services are using an increasingly wide array of professional networking sites and online job platforms to target Five Eyes government and military personnel and anyone with access to classified or privileged information.

5:48So the human way to get into your network is also happening. They're saying don't give up on that. But they did mention that you are going to want to integrate these foundational models into your defense if you want to be able to respond as fast as possible. So Rob, that's kind of where I come with like some of these headlines are like, you're going to get overwhelmed in months. And really what the Five Eyes are saying is the risks are coming faster If you're not using the advanced models, you're going to fall behind. You need to integrate them and you need to do the basics right. This almost reads like a hookup from the five eyes to CISOs to help them get more budgets.

6:27Like, hey, the world is falling. All that stuff that you kind of know is happening over time as these tools get better. You need to use them to help you mitigate things in your environment. Every CISO is saying is like, yeah, that's my job. thank you maybe it'll help me get more budget that's literally how i am reading this because it does almost the the articles at least are kind of alarmist like hey the the sky is falling on this uh you know when i read the headlines i'm thinking like man it's like you know is eagle eye coming or you know you know do you want to play a friendly game of chess i mean these are the kind of things that i'm that i am you know that you know it's all the ai movies doing bad stuff in the movies that i'm thinking of when i read this but it's like no this is just this is where we are We have tools that are really good at figuring this stuff out.

7:14So you need to, as a security professional, be aware of it and mitigate the risk. I think that's what the five eyes are, what they're ultimately saying. Yeah, man, I think you nailed it. I hadn't even thought of that. Like this, this is a document that a CISO can take in to their COO or their CEO and go, did you see this? And in fact, those Financial Times articles and other articles saying Russia and China, you know, could overwhelm defenses in months, don't hurt that cause. Not at all. Because they're able to point to this Five Eyes document and say, I need budget to be able to do that. I think that is absolutely one of the things going on here.

7:53And hopefully it works. Yeah. So, like, it's stuff that we have to think about. We think about all the – most people, and maybe not listen to the show, but most people want to think of AI. They're thinking chat GPT and how can I write this document better or how can this help me, you know, with this spreadsheet here and there. But what AI is really, really good at is pattern matching and just looking at, oh, this code is a little wonky. It doesn't look like this other code. I wonder if I inject this. What will happen? What if I inject this? What will happen? And it can just do those things over and over and over again.

8:28It never gets tired as long as there is electricity and water. These things will literally try stuff through, you know, through infinity. So they just get really good at finding vulnerabilities. The humans were not bad at finding. They can just do it at scale and so much more quickly. Yeah, I think the only other thing I would want people listening to take away is if you've got yourself or friends or family members who see these headlines and think, oh, my gosh, We're going to be under attack from adversaries in the next months. It's good to be able to explain, no, this is saying you need to be good at security in order to stop that from happening.

9:07And the risks are coming faster. It does not mean that all of our systems are about to get overwhelmed in months. It's just an important warning sign. And like Rob said, an important document for the CISO to have when they go and ask for the budget to be able to fight back on this stuff. And there are people who get paid very, very well in many, many organizations that their job is to mitigate this kind of stuff. So it's not like that this is not happening and something's going to happen differently. It's like the things that have already been happening. The reason that you have security people in your organization, this is just kind of saying that they're still necessary.

9:43You know, we still need to have them. You still need to use tools to figure this stuff out because as the hackers get better, you need to be better because the hackers only have to be right once. You've got to be right literally every single time. So, you know, we've been in a you know, we've been in this. It's not a matter of if it's going to happen is when it's going to happen. So it's all about the mitigation, all the tools you can put in place to try to prevent as much of this as you possibly can. Yeah, and it's the CFO's job in a company to ask the CISO, all right, do you really need that?

10:14Like, yes, you, the CISO, are always trying to get as close to 0 % risk as possible, but is that something that you actually is a real risk? And so it is important to be able to say, yeah, no, this is a real risk. Check it out. Well, folks, DTNS is made possible by you, the listener. Thanks to Paul Thiessen, Ali Sanjabi, AB Puppy, and Paul Davidson. And we got a bunch of new patrons today. Some of you challenging us with your names. We got Jazz, Marco, Hubert, Lori, Bear, Ant, Andrew, Charlie, Angela, Rabel, Dom. Nick with a C is back as a new patron. I think Nick with a C has been a patron before.

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14:20All right, there's more we need to know today. Let's get to the briefs. Meta announced that WhatsApp head Will Katchett will step down and move into a new AI role, product building position within the company. Meanwhile, Canul Shah, the head of an Indian company, Cred, will take over the top spot at WhatsApp. Shaw founded Cred, a fintech company that offers rewards tied to credit card repayments and can analyze and track spending in 2018. Meta will also purchase about 20 % of Cred and become a minority investor in the company. WhatsApp has been trying to expand into digital payments in India, WhatsApp's largest market with more than 500 million users there.

14:56Yeah, this is an interesting move. I don't think it's any. I doubt that it has much to do with Will not doing a good job. WhatsApp has expanded greatly, especially in India, under the nine years or so that he's been in charge. However, I do think it's really smart to say, hey, you know what? Our biggest market is India. We have the biggest upside for a payments app in India. WhatsApp Pay did okay there, but not nearly as good as we think it could do. Let's get a guy who can do that to come in and run this. and take a stake in the company that he helped founded, potential acquisition target if we need it down the road to help juice our payment strategy there.

15:43Yeah, I think you're right. This is not an indication of a bad job was being done. It's just that here is a job that can be done from somebody who's got expertise doing it in that particular country. Mobile payments is enormous in India. It's an enormous country. It's about to be the biggest country. So if you can get a foothold with WhatsApp because it's you know what what's that payments is there but it's not big so if you can if you can get it bigger that's just a good financial thing for for meta over overall to do yeah and will cathcart's not leaving the company uh it's pretty vague what he's gonna do sounds like maybe they're letting him decide what he's gonna do next like pick a project you know f around a little bit and see see what you find out uh but i i think uh i think he'll probably stick with the company although there's always the chance because you see this with this kind of like he's gonna stay the company on a vague project that eventually they just leave quietly when the news cycle isn't there.

16:39They just didn't want to announce it at the time that they announced the change. Speaking to the Wall Street Journal, Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella criticized the leading AI companies, which when you're not one of the leading AI companies, you criticize the leading AI companies. Nadella said the messaging around AI has to change. I don't think most of us would disagree with him there. He told the Wall Street Journal, you can't say, hey, all white collar jobs are gone and this could even be a weapon and we will use all the power to build data centers. And then, you know, his implication was, and then expect people to think you're great and we love you.

17:14However, Microsoft is rolling out lower cost models and co-pilot co-work, an agent that lets you choose the models. So I suspect that part of his motivation in doing this interview is to call attention to those. And we are moving into the price war aspect of things. We've been hearing rumblings about open AI, possibly cutting prices as well to try to compete with Anthropics. So Microsoft doing that, of course, as someone a little farther behind makes sense. That's just something you normally see in markets. He also said that companies need to reorganize jobs, not eliminate jobs, and that actions will speak louder than words.

17:49His quote, no amount of just narrative is going to do it because where we are now, we have to sort of walk the walk. We now have to do the hard work in earning social permission. Again, I don't think any of us disagree with that. Show us what you're going to do. Show us the jobs. Show us the use of these tools. Show us yourselves being responsible in the implementation of this AI. So it's unfortunate that we also have the news today that Chevron announced a 20-year contract with Microsoft to provide natural gas power to its data center near Pecos, Texas. Now, on the one hand, this is good because it is Microsoft provisioning the power for its data center so that it doesn't impact the local community's power supply.

18:30But, you know, Microsoft has been trying to be carbon neutral and natural gas isn't going to get them there. You hit the nail on the head. Microsoft is not a leading provider. So you can throw shade at the ones who are. That's what companies do. But I think what the CEO is doing here makes a lot of sense. Microsoft, although they are heavily reliant on AI, it's not an AI company. Microsoft is still a software company. And because it's a software company, it employs, you know, literally an order of magnitude more people than some of these AI companies. Not necessarily Google, but when you're looking at open AI, when you're looking at perplexity, when you're looking at Anthropic, it's a much, much larger entity as far as the number of people that it employs.

19:11So one of the things that CEOs of companies that have a lot of people who work for them have to think about, if we keep telling everyone we're going to bring AI in and lay everybody off, those CEOs have to worry about, well, if we lay everybody off and we're talking about, you know, multiple companies that may do this, it could be tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, maybe even more people who buys our products. that that's not a good story to tell. Even if we've figured out how we're going to sell products, telling people that you're no longer going to have a job because of these things that we're doing to replace your job is not a great strategy for long-term success in your organization.

19:46So I think that that might be as much of this as anything else. We got to stop telling everybody that they're going to lose their jobs and come up with a different story for how we're going to enhance your jobs. We're going to figure out new jobs for you to do. So you still can ultimately be our customers because the biggest customers of Microsoft are the people who work at Microsoft. Yeah. And I think whatever his motivations are, Nadella is saying the right things that you need to be saying in a leadership position, which is, hold on, let's make a better case for why these tools are useful or else why are we doing them, right?

20:21Absolutely. So it's, like I said, it's, they're not number one, they're not number two or number three. So we can do a little dig there. But the overall message to me, it makes a lot of sense. It's like, you know, we need to change this story just because the story that we've been telling is really toxic and people don't, there's a pushback on AI. People are kind of getting tired of AI because number one is everywhere. And it's, you just get tired of stuff that you keep seeing commercials about and hearing about all the time. The other part of it is that people truly are concerned about, you keep telling me that I'm losing my job and I keep looking at job numbers and numbers are going down because people are losing their jobs.

20:57They may not be directly tied to AI in the way that we thought it was going to be. But if you're telling that story, you know, in a lot of people's minds, one plus one just equals two. And I don't like Microsoft anymore. So I think that this is the right strategy, not just for Microsoft, but for a lot of companies that are thinking about these kinds of things for long-term success in their organizations. It strikes me that Microsoft's in a similar position to Apple, which it has its own internal models, but they aren't considered to be leading. And so it is looking to use other models. In Microsoft's case, it's mostly been open AI to supplement its offerings, empower its co-pilots and integrations in Windows.

21:36And I think it is now positioning itself to be like, we're going to be the place for cheap end choice, which is why you hear the rumblings that they might add DeepSeek to their offerings because that's cheap, right? So it'll be interesting to see the parallel paths that Apple and Microsoft take as the folks who are not leading in the models, but definitely leading and giving people access to the models. Absolutely. Instagram said it will experiment with longer form episodic content and live creator streams to encourage use of its TV based apps. The app is available on Amazon Fire and Google TV platforms and starting now is rolling out on Samsung TVs.

22:17Instagram also is adding channel features and the ability to cast reels to the TV from your phone. So I think that this is a smart move for Instagram because YouTube has shown that people like to watch videos on television screens. And they're just trouncing everyone in this space. Not so much Netflix, but pretty much everybody else. They're absolutely trouncing. So it makes sense for Instagram to say, hey, we're going to go do some of that stuff that YouTube is doing. It does. It makes logical sense. I don't disagree with you. But I want to take old man privilege here because you're doing the thing that you should do is not discount a new logical step to say, this could work.

23:00But man, how many times have we seen, oh, Twitter has an app for Apple TV now. Oh, TikTok has made an app for television platforms now and they never take off. That Doesn't mean this won't be the exception, but I'm just looking at this and I'm like, Godspeed, Instagram. Like, you know, it is really tough to get people to take a mobile platform and want to use it on TV. And it's also really tough to make people compete with YouTube. Like you said, like they have been the dominant force. Not that somebody shouldn't take them on, you know, that's a good thing to happen. But I just don't know. these often comes from companies who want them to be successful, not from customer bases who have been asking for this sort of thing.

23:51Now, I can be an outlier, but I find myself watching darn near as much video on Substack on my television as I do on my phone or tablet, simply because they have a app and the content is longer form. And if I'm only sitting there for 20 or 30 minutes, it just makes sense to be there in front of a TV as compared to looking at a small screen. I don't know that that's going to work just in the same way you don't know that this is going to work for Instagram. But the thing I think that Instagram has to do, what they ultimately have to do is that long-form content is kind of on the rise right now. If we have long-form content, we can put more ads in front of people per watched thing as compared to having to have lots of ads for lots of things that they watch.

24:36So because of that, I think they've got to try. they've got to try because it's like when you know they can look at the numbers and they can see how much people are watching long-form content on youtube um and you know youtube dominates that market they've got to try to at least get into that so i don't like i'm like you i don't know that this is going to work but i can't begrudge them for trying because it's like you know they need to be in this space even if it's just a little bit even if it's just a few percentage points they need to be in that space yeah it's a bit the tail wagging the dog because they were like, oh, we could get so much more ad revenue if we did that.

25:09But like you're saying, that's how you get it to work is you make people like yourself go like, you know what? I do like watching this on the TV. So, you know, maybe they can make that conversion. Bloomberg's Mark Gurman reports that incoming Apple CEO John Ternus plans to fix the Apple design team. A lot of people have thought that Apple's design shops aren't bad, but maybe not as good as they were during the glory years. And Gurman reports that the team's influence has declined since Johnny Ive first stepped back from day-to-day management in 2015. No design head has been on the executive team since Ive left in 2019.

25:43This March, Apple added Molly Anderson to its leadership page. She's vice president of industrial design, but Gurman notes that Anderson had not previously managed a team. And Ternus took oversight of that team in late 2025 and has spent a lot of time with it. So, Gurman seems to imply that Ternus is looking for a superstar to put on this team and put on the executive team and be sort of that thing that Johnny Ive was back in the day. He told employees in a recent internal meeting that the company is, quote, going to keep focusing on design because design is core to what we do at Apple. And Apple PR has been putting out the word that Ternus should get credit for the design success of the MacBook Neo.

26:23He's expected to be the person on stage when they announce the foldable iPhone this autumn that they're expected to announce. Gurman says that's still coming. Gurman also said that Apple's smart glasses are now scheduled to launch at the end of 2027. We thought we were going to get them this year. Now it's next year. But it does mean that Ternus would have the foldable this autumn and then next year, the 20th anniversary iPhone and the smart glasses and the AirPods with the cameras in them. There are lots of potential design wins for him coming. I don't want to say that Apple products are their design is stale, but it's been a minute since we've had an iPod or that we've had an Apple Watch or that we've had an iPhone.

27:04These these things will be in a museum one day about just, you know, how how well designed objects and how people like them. so there's something that has to happen because essentially what apple is known for now is building supercomputers that fit in your pocket that have shiny metal and glass on them and just help you do you know everyday stuff but the design has been in design for a decade and a half now they haven't really changed that much cameras get better they get thinner they get lighter battery lasts longer but the design that that thing that you say oh man that ipod nano is cute oh that iPod video.

27:42That's really nice looking. The Apple Watch, I can't believe. I never wore a watch. Now I'm wearing a watch. It's been a minute since we've had that kind of conversation from Apple. Yeah. And I think it's also apparent on the interface side. I mean, we don't have this consternation over liquid glass and Apple sort of at WWDC saying, well, we fixed liquid glass and it now does this and we gave you a slider. I can't imagine Steve Jobs would have liked giving people a slider for liquid glass. And it seems to me that that is another example of compromise where you don't have a strong design visionary.

28:20And so you get people by committee saying, well, I guess we can fix it this way. Let's give them a slider. Let's round this corner off rather than saying, no, this is our vision and this is the way you should use it the way Apple traditionally has approached design. I think part of it too, and this is just the longevity of how long smartphones have been around. You can't make the interface just get better and better and better. At some point, you're going to get to a point to where this is the perfect interface to interface with something that fits in my pocket that has a screen on it and shines light into my eyes.

28:55You can't necessarily make that experience get much better over time. We've been using keyboards for over 100 years. Why? Because they work really, really well. We, there's different designs. We tried to make them ergonomic and split them and, you know, and have your hands, you know, kind of, you know, in better positions, but you know, the cordy keyboard or whatever keyboard you use, depending on where you are in the world, they have worked for well over a hundred years without much change because they figured it out. They got it. It's like, you know what, how, how much more effective can you make a windshield wiper?

29:26They do what they do and they do it very, very well. We, we, we have probably figured those things out. And I think that's what's happened with the big devices out of Apple. So it may be for a design, you know, to kind of come back in. It's got to be a new device that people didn't know. And it's like, oh, that's cute. Oh, I like how Apple is doing this. And I just don't know that anything that they currently have kind of fits into that category. Yeah. And Apple's famous for overturning those paradigms when they're possible. Because I think you're right. There are some design elements where like, no, that's just the best way to do it.

29:58But Apple's famous for saying, no, we're going to take the buttons off the screen. We're going to give you a full touchscreen glass interface. Everybody thought it was crazy at first. We all forget that. And now it's the standard. That's what everybody does. So you need that kind of design inspiration to question that and say, well, maybe we should change it and make the right calls for when to change it and when to not try to reinvent the wheel. Also, feedback at dailytechnewshow.com is our email address for you Dvorak keyboard stands who want to write in and tell us why it is so much superior to Gordon.

30:34Also, we do live streams. We did a little surprise live stream on Sunday. Myself and Brian Dunaway got on and did the DTNS weekend episode late on Saturday. So you could get a little preview of it. And then of course it went out into the feeds on Sunday for everybody to listen to. But we also do live streams on Thursday, our Thursday hangout with Sarah Lane and Roger Chang and myself and Rob and special guests coming in. We'll do live hangouts. We'll do office hours. They're all kinds of good stuff. And you can get notified when we do them and watch them at youtube.com slash daily tech news show.

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32:09Microsoft officially confirmed Windows 11 26 H2 will arrive this fall as a small enablement package rather than a huge download. That means it can activate existing code for faster installation. You hear that, sis Edmonds? Yeah, faster installation. I mean, it's good for all of us, but especially if you're in the enterprise. It's not just AI companies going for stock IPOs. Lime Scooters, a parent company anyway, launched the roadshow for its offering on the Nasdaq and it will be under the ticker symbol LIME. Those things are still popular. Yeah, they're all over the place. SK Hynix passed Samsung in market cap to become South Korea's largest company, ending Samsung's 26 year run at the top.

32:51That is, I mean, I don't know if it's the end of an era. We'll see if Samsung can come back. This is all about chips and Samsung does make chips, but SK Hynix really focused on making the chips. They're now really big too. They're in front of Samsung. Google DeepMind Vice President John Jumper is leaving the company to join Anthropic. Jumper won the 2024 Nobel Prize in Chemistry for his work on artificial intelligence, including creating the AI model AlphaFold. Another top DeepMind researcher, Noam Shazer, has recently left for OpenAI. Yeah, what's going on there? That's a couple of really big minds to leave DeepMind.

33:27Although I am tempted to make a joke about, well, his name is Jumper. What did you expect okay and could it also be that if we get there now they're going public it can be beneficial to our bank accounts yeah no that's that's a that's not a small part of it um we are sad to report that ubisoft co-founder claude guillemot died in a plane crash on june 19th uh in an accident that also left another person dead uh guillemot was still on the board of ubisoft he was running his own separate company as well and was 69 years old getty images announced a deal to let OpenAI access its licensed content libraries to show in search results, yet he did not mention whether there was also a deal for training on the images.

34:08Colombian researcher Francisco Trujillo led a team at Australia's University of New South Wales to develop room temperature espresso brewing using ultrasound to extract the flavor, the oils, the aroma, and the caffeine from ground coffee. Now, you still pass water through it to get all of those out, but you don't have to use the hot water and the pressure to do it. It does take longer. Usually like an espresso shot takes about 30 seconds. This takes three minutes, but it consumes 75 % less energy than your typical process. Yeah, they need that extra energy for AI, I guess.

34:46Consultancy Bain and company has been using generative models to see how easy it is to recite, or I should say to recreate proprietary software with a prompt as a way of gauging the competitive advantage of its clients products. That is clever. It's a little controversial too, but it's very, very clever. Google will invest about$75 million into A24, the film studio. This is the film studio that makes all the award-winning or critically acclaimed movies like Everything Everywhere All at Once. More recently, Backrooms came out of A24, so did Marty Supreme. They will use this partnership to explore using Google's foundational models to create new tools for filmmaking.

35:27That's very interesting. I wonder how the industry is going to react to it. We will see. Thanks to Motang for noting that Nikkei reports that Japan's largest toilet maker, Toto, will use its ceramics expertise to expand its semiconductor materials unit for next-gen one nanometer chip production. Yeah, this caused a lot of jokes on the subreddit about, you know, swirling your head at this sort of thing, but pretty smart for Toto to be getting into this and showing the power of that industry and compelling people to do stuff. We end every episode of DTNS with some shared perspectives. Today, McShrug Emoji has a clarification on a weekend discussion with Brian Dunaway about the Commodore cell phone.

36:08All right, McShrug Emoji. That is just the end of their username. I'm going to make my best attempt and apologies. You can correct me on my pronunciation in a follow-up, but quick correction Sailfish OS isn't Android it's also built on top of Linux but it's actually a continuation of Mego the operating system that Nokia abandoned when they went all in with the Windows phone yes I was getting confused because Sailfish has a really good Android compatibility layer so that you can run all your Android apps on it. But you're right. Thank you for that clarification. Sailfish OS is its own thing. In fact, I believe I dug into this after I saw this comment.

37:02Mego was handed over to Intel after Nokia stopped developing it. And Samsung was using it. And then when they switched to Tizen, which is what they use for their television operating systems, That's when Mego was kind of set free and became an open source project and evolved into Sailfish. So thank you for reminding me of that. Yeah, and this is a cool project. Now, I do really wonder how big can it get, how many folks will use this type of device. But it's cool. It's got the Commodore name in it. So it's going to get folks who are just, you know, I remember having a Commodore 64 back in the day.

37:40It's going to get those kind of folks. So I'm interested to see how well this does. And it is running a legitimate operating system. This is not new stuff. This is stuff that's been around and been proven for some time now. And privacy forward and secure one as well. Yeah. Well, folks, we always want to know what you're thinking. So if you've got insights into a story, please, please, please share it with us at feedback at DailyTechNewsShow.com. Thanks to Juan. I'm not going to do it again. McShrug emoji. We'll just call you McShrug emoji for contributing to today's show. Thank you for being along for Daily Tech News Show.

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