Jenn and Roger Play Games: Zen - Experiment Week 5088

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2:54Welcome to Jen and Roger Play Games. I'm Jen Cutter. And I'm Roger Chang. And today is all about Zen gaming. We are just over halfway through 2025 and I have definitely been reaching more for relaxing or comforting gaming experiences these days. Probably the most since 2020. How about you, Roger? Yeah, I would have to say I've been playing a lot of games that aren't as adrenaline pumping or perhaps requiring deft button mashing and thumbstick twirling, mostly because life seems to be a bit much of late. So something that kind of brings my blood pressure level down, I think, is in order. That is pretty much where I am at.

3:49Now, you have been playing a game series that, thanks to you telling me about it, I had revisited. So why don't you tell everyone about Monument Valley? Yeah, Monument Valley, when it first came out, it was targeted towards mobile. So iPhone, Android, tablet. And it looks as much as it is very much designed in a vertical orientation. And the idea is it's a puzzle game. You're supposed to get your protagonist that represents you or an avatar of you and finish basically through a puzzle that's part geometric kind of Rubik's Cube crossed over with a Mobius strip because everything is in two dimensions.

4:35even though the object that you see is created in kind of a perspective, forced perspective, you can actually get around to your objective by moving around pieces as well as sliding out various components with the understanding that you can take one object and make it a separate path that goes in a different direction because there is no 3D space. Think of it as sort of a walking origami. It is fascinating. I had played Monument Valley when it came out because it came out around the time I got my first and only ever iPad. And I was like, oh, this is cool. I'm going to check out gaming on iOS. And back then I hated it.

5:19Oh, man, I could not wrap my brain around it. But when you reminded me of the series a couple of weeks ago, I reinstalled the game and it clicked. And oh, my goodness, what a wonderful, relaxing, chill experience once that game clicked. It is deceptively engrossing. I played it because, believe it or not, I have Netflix, and I actually use Netflix gaming. It was one of the games on offer. It's like, well, there's no harm in trying. I'm not having to spend more. I played it. It's like, this game is actually pretty interesting because it is a puzzle-based game. There is no time limit. There is no need to finish it in order to get to the next level because your character is going to die or you have to grind your way up through 40 levels in order to buff out your character to take on the final boss.

6:13This is all very much of a, and I really do mean this, a very zen-like experience. You kind of zone in, you play it, but you're not in any way agitated or cajoled into doing things in order to meet either a timer or an objective that's slowly counting down. The lack of rush felt really good because I found myself trying to race through levels and I was like, wait, I don't have to do that. I can take my time. I can just click here and see what happens. Oh, no. And that's the great thing. There is no penalty for not getting it right. When you're done, you're done, right? You can go through and take as much time as you want.

6:55There isn't a cosmic countdown that tells you how long you've screwed up, right? You can explore and kind of figure out things in your own space and in your own time. And I think that's very, very unique amongst even casual games, right? Like, take a puzzle game like Tetris or Luminous. They're very much of the puzzle variety, but they both feature a timer. Now, in Tetris, it's not an actual countdown clock, but you have to get the pieces in place in order to dissolve rows of them before the adjacent or the follow-on pieces get too much and you basically fill up your box and you're out of the game.

7:42Same thing with Luminous, right? You got to get each row dissolved because if you don't, you're playing against a limited set of space. And once you run out of space, you're done. This is not that kind of game. If you're looking for a game, and I'll add this, they just released Monument Valley 3. For a game that does not in any way, shape, or form really demand of you any sort of heightened sense of urgency, this is perfect. I find it on par with word games or crossword games where you're not being penalized on how long you take depending on what mode you're in. But you're just like, oh, okay, I got it.

8:29Done. Next. but you know what I think about it even Wordle demands you know like when you share your Wordle score or your time you compare with other people oh it only took me five minutes or it took me five seconds took me ten seconds this is yeah you can finish some of these puzzles fairly quickly but the joy is figuring it out yourself it's like discovering a skill you've never that you didn't have before or you didn't know you had like yeah I just kind of had to stare at it for a bit and then like i said it just suddenly clicked uh i have apple arcade right now because i have a new phone so i'm taking advantage of that so they had monument valley too so i sat down and i flew through it i i just had such a wonderful time i literally sat there for an hour and i did every level now there is kind of a story i'm not going to say anything because everybody takes their own thing away from it i loved it and i immediately loaded steam and bought the bundle to have them all on PC.

9:27And I regret it only because I didn't get the bundle that has the soundtracks. I love the music in these games. The music is stellar. And like you said, there is a story to it. What's fascinating is it doesn't use – it's very sparse with dialogue. If you actually look at the game as you play through it, there's very few words. And the words are very well chosen. they describe a very succinct point about the game but most of it's told through action through uh action and and reaction things that you do cause and effect and it's amazing like how much how in depth it is uh despite the fact that you aren't given a cut scene uh that's like two minutes long and kind of does an expository on why your character is seeking revenge or why a character you're fighting against is seeking revenge against, you know, whatever peoples.

10:25It's pretty cool. And I, you know, having to go through a lot of really stressful moments in the past couple of months, this game's a lifesaver. It is very much, you know, it's one of those things like, hey, I think my blood pressure's a little too high. Give it a go. You might find yourself a little more relaxed when you're done. And that's the whole concept behind this episode. Zen gaming, right? Games that don't unnecessarily excite you, but things that still feel like you've accomplished something. When you finish a puzzle, you don't feel like you've wasted time or that you have perhaps played something that was perhaps below your level.

11:10You feel like you've achieved something and it's in bite-sized pieces. You can finish a puzzle quite easily in five to eight minutes or even ten minutes. And then you can just leave it at and play the next level when you're ready. Yeah. No, finishing levels in Monument Valley, I both felt really calm because it's beautiful to look at. The animations are so fluid and the background music. And I got to feel like a genius. Yes. There's an element in the Tao Te Ching about a lot of the aspects of just being sort of the unshaven or the uncarved block. And when you play this game, you kind of feel that you can sort of be anything within it, within that game space.

11:58And it's just very, very soothing. I know it's a very odd word to use. soothing you usually reserve for things like a bubble bath or perhaps you know light jazz music or something but it is a fun way to kind of relax and I sincerely mean that because I've been playing this and I've also been playing is it Streets of Rage 4? Oh nice! That one that's based on the Sega Yeah! It's definitely fun, but it's a lot of button mashing, right? Like, shh, shh, shh, shh, shh. But after a while, you kind of get bored because, like, I get it. I punch this guy, I punch that guy, you know, I suplex this guy, grab the pipe and beat the other guy.

12:47This very much feels like you go from one to the other. It's like, again, like kind of an origami of source, both in gameplay but in story, because each part unfolds, and as you learn, geometry plays a very important conceit in the game game mechanics yeah i can't wait to jump into three because i haven't done that yet i've been saving it and now i think this weekend uh it's going to happen and i'm also really happy you mentioned the luminous because when the psp came out everyone bought that game if you had a psp you had luminous 100 and i learned extremely quickly quickly that that was a game where i love the soundtrack i hate the game it stressed me out way too much.

13:29I was seeing those blocks when I closed my eyes and I have never gone back. I get too stressed. I mean, that's the weird thing. The music's great, but also it's sort of incongruent with what you're doing. It's like, oh, I gotta get this. Gotta get that. It's like, ah. But you know what I find most appealing is that none of these games really require you to have any sort of high level of skill. like you can pick these up and play these games no matter where you're at like in terms of I don't play RPGs because it takes so long I don't understand the mechanics I don't understand the leveling up tree I can't play this you know fighting game because I'm not good with the moves I don't know the blocks I don't know the special moves Tom has famously said that he's really bad at first person shooters because he just can't get his mind around the concept enough to you know so this is this is a very like anyone can play anyone can play so you say that and uh from the anyone can play like tetris standpoint i can't oh my goodness i i can pack a car awesome i can pack a fridge awesome i cannot pack a tetris line i have friends who are grandmasters they're like oh no it's easy i'll show you and i have i am the world's worst Tetris player.

14:53It is. It's a skill. And I definitely will say that I played a lot of Tetris in high school because it was one of the few PC games that didn't really need a fast CPU at the time. And I was like, all right. And I could use a keyboard quite easily. In fact, it was made for the keyboard. It was perfect. Makes sense. But enough about what I'm playing, Jen. What are you playing? i uh i have a different take on games that are zen now a lot of people are like oh do you play like hockey games to relax and i am actually one of those people who hates well not hate hate's a strong word i do not actively seek out hockey video games because i am fortunate enough to play actual hockey and playing the video game i just find annoying because i can't actually go skating and skating is the part I like about hockey.

15:45But for me, sometimes like everyone in 2020 played Animal Crossing. I am also the person who played Animal Crossing. But I have not visited my island in a very long time because I have been getting my build and design a town and have fun with that in Lego Odyssey, which is actually a Fortnite game. So it is technically Fortnite lego odyssey and uh you can go in there and there's kind of a story now they've added a story where like you have to go do certain things and help these people and then that will unlock more blocks and more blueprints so you can get more lego pieces to build your various towns throughout this truly gigantic world and they give you bosses to go kick in the face so i kind of like getting to kick bosses in the face so where does the fortnight um come in into this in this lego space or where does the lego come into the fortnite space yeah no lego and fortnite have a partnership so for a lot of skins not all of the skins because there's always uh rights issues um you will also be given the lego fig equivalent of those skins so like the current season right now has power rangers but there are no power rangers available in the Lego mode because there's no Power Rangers Lego.

17:06And when Sub-Zero was available, you couldn't play Sub-Zero in Lego because there's no Mortal Kombat Lego. So how would you describe this game then? Is this just sort of an open world, third person survival game or something? Yes, there is an expert mode, which I don't play because I'm going to be honest, the game's a little buggy. And if you play the permadeath mode, you will die to falling through the earth and be very upset. to lose the world you've been building for weeks. But if you've played any LEGO game, like even like LEGO Star Wars, you know how this game controls. It's very tight. It's very snappy.

17:42You have an inventory, which is kind of nice. You collect materials. So if you like Minecraft, you will like LEGO Odyssey. And then if you don't want to do any work and just want to play with LEGO blocks, there's a sandbox mode and you can do that and turn off enemies and turn on flying. And just sometimes I don't want to drag out my actual LEGO kits and I get to play with them digitally and I don't have to clean up.

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21:24Now, is there any sort of point scoring or is it just the construction that kind of brings you or sort of engrosses you in the game? They did add, I'll call it a journal. It's basically like your quest log. So there is a journal in-game that says, hey, you should do this and go talk to this person. and then you've got to go beat up Raven before you can fight the Storm King. And now you have to find Vengeance Jones so you can figure out what all these new spires are about. But they are optional. And if you are trying to gain levels for your Fortnite account, because all Fortnite levels are the same when you're progressing your battle pass, play LEGO.

22:02It's tons of experience. And there's different daily quests that you can do. Yeah, you will fly through levels for unlocking stuff in your battle pass. Now, when you get into battle, is it just straight up shooting the opponent? Or do you have other skills that you can pull? They did add guns recently. I tend to use a crossbow. I'm old fashioned that way. And spears and daggers. And you can play with a shield. You can throw dynamite. But you can't build your own weapon or something with Legos and drop it on them. You can enchant your own weapon. So you do have options that way. That is where the customizing comes in.

22:38And you can choose your materials. Some are faster, some are stronger. There is also a Star Wars island, so you can get blasters. Lego Star Wars or just Star Wars? Lego Star Wars. You can get your Lego lightsaber on and fight the stormtroopers if you, again, want to feel rather powerful. Now, that isn't the only Zen game you have in your repertoire of things that you play currently. Yeah. If you follow me on social media, I talk a lot about Final Fantasy XIV, which is an MMO, which means I do pay monthly for it, but it lets me do everything. Now, is this a separate MMO from the other Final Fantasy XI?

23:21I'm trying to remember the one previous to this. Wasn't there a prior? There was. There was. Final Fantasy XI, which actually was out on PS2. console. Also PC. I had both because I was reviewing both of them at the time. But yeah, so Final Fantasy XI was special in that it was designed to be played with a controller. So with Final Fantasy XIV, they kept that forward because you used to be able to play XIV on the PS3, but PS3 support is cut off. You now have to have minimum a PS4 or PS5 or PC. And it is also compatible on Steam Deck. And by the way, I have to do the meme. Did you know there's a free trial including the award-winning Heavensward and Stormblood now?

24:07So if you want to try this game out for anything, the story's amazing. You only have to make one character, and that character can be any class. You can go gardening. You can raise your Jacobo. You can even play the game without playing with other players if you wanted. Because sometimes, you know, you're just in a mood and you can call up a couple NPCs and they'll do the dungeon with you. It's not fast, but you can do it. How much is the game and how much is the subscription to play online? I should probably know this in American, but I don't. I pay, it averages to about 15 Canadian a month because I tend to buy the six month passes.

24:48So it's a little bit cheaper. But the game costs, so you can play for free through Realm Reborn, Heaven's Word and Stormblood. And then you would have to buy the game if you wanted to play Shadowbringers, Endwalker, or now Dawn Trail, which is the current expansion. Oh my God, I have been playing this game for a very long time to have gone through all of these expansions. It is, it is, it definitely sounds like it's, now would you say it's one of these games that you have to be a Final Fantasy fan in order to enjoy, or can you just be in our JRPG? And in fact, do you need to be a JRPG fan? play this.

25:26You need to be an RPG fan because, you know, there's big bads. It's all universe ending. You may or may not kill a couple of gods, you know? I don't want to get too many spiders there. So even though it's an MMO, there is a final boss to this game? Well, there's final bosses for each expansion. Bosses? Oh, so pro. Oh, yeah, no, there's a lot of bosses. There's no shortage of bosses. And one of my favorite Zen activities in the game, as a matter of fact, is you can redo old fights unsynced. So I'm level 100 right now. I can go back and fight a level 60 boss with my level 100 and all my level 100 skills and one-shot them.

26:07And that is the thing I do at least once a week to feel good for beating the fights that beat me badly the first time I was there. You know, I can totally see this being as something that you zone in or zone out on. but like just everything you described sounds like makes me really anxious like oh man I don't have this yeah I know it's different strokes different folks kind of thing like friends who play Tetris competitively they're like oh it's so great I'm like I'm stressed watching you one of the more amusing things I always found interesting in games as having been a long time PC game player since like the mid 80s was the development of jobs that you could have characters go to.

26:51And it was a big feature, I remember. It was called, was it the Magic Candle? It was a PC RPG. And one of the, I think one of the key selling points features was some of your characters in your party had to go to work, like in the town in Oregon. So a job job, not a class, but like a job. You are a blacksmith or whatever. Yeah, you need to go to the tavern, right? Because that's your job. and I find it interesting that so much of that now is involved and turned into fetch quests like and then like if someone asked me to do that in real life I would be so annoyed like really you want me to go get parts for this right now but in the video game you'll be happy you'll be happy to blow 20 minutes just running from one end of the screen to the other well in in 14 I am an omnicrafter.

27:46I have max leveled every crafter and every gatherer. So whenever like I need something or some of my friends need something, like, yeah, sure, they could buy it off the market board. But I like that they ask me and then I will go into my massive stores of materials and make it for them. And in game, it signs your name on it. So if like my brother's wearing some armor I made, it will have my name on it when you look at the character screen. I mean, I shouldn't make fun because I often... You can make fun. It's a little funny. I used to cope with a lot of the world's injustices by playing Diablo, like three Diablo four.

28:25Oh, good call, yeah. Like, you just go through and you just like... And like, the leveling system is very favorable to the player, right? Oh, it's concert rewards. Yeah. There is no plateau as in real life. If you kind of plateau, like, I've reached 50. I've plateaued. There's no more career advancement for me. But no, in a lot of these games, and I think that's the appeal, right? The key of it is that you have control, but you can manage your outcomes so they are beneficial to you, rather than real life where you could do everything right and still get, like, royally hosed. because like, oh, you know, the company folded and went bankrupt and now you're out of a job or the tax law has changed and now you owe more taxes or you don't get as big of a refund as you used to.

29:19And so there's a constant reward element to it, which is why loot boxes are such a big thing in these games.

29:57and Now explore further at Range Rover.com. This episode is brought to you by Capital One. Capital One's tech team isn't just talking about multi-agentic AI. They already deployed one. It's called Chat Concierge and it's simplifying car shopping. Using self-reflection and layered reasoning with live API checks, it doesn't just help buyers find a car they love. It helps schedule a test drive, get pre-approved for financing, and estimate trade in value. Advanced, intuitive, and deployed. That's how they stack. That's technology at Capital One. It's one reason why I really like Monument Valley. In a weird philosophical way, it's sort of anti-capitalistic, right?

30:42There's no drive to collect or hoard or to amass anything other than to finish the puzzle. It feels like such a complete world. I'm so stoked to go play three as soon as possible. It is. And I definitely, you know, I say this as someone who, you know, cut their teeth on as many different types of games as possible, right? I used to love flight sims, you know, you could fly at World War II and watch like these, you know, really bad wireframe graphics that represent your Spitfire or Mustang and you fight the Axis or whatever. but I played that, played text adventure games I've played almost every style of game outside of VR headset games and Monument Valley is one of the few that's like wow this is really really unique it's deceptively, it looks this is the thing, on the outside it looks deceptively dull and uninteresting it does, yeah I would have glanced through it if somebody hadn't given me that initial copy.

31:46It's like someone who gave you a bag of Doritos and just said it's plain flavored, right? Like, what are you talking plain flavored? There's no such thing as a plain flavored Dorito. But that's what it looks like. But when you play, it's like, what? This tastes like a Big Mac. Or, I mean, people may not remember, but Frito-Lay that makes Doritos, they did unique flavors, and you had to guess what it was, and they made one batch of bags taste like a Big Mac, even though it was just a Dorito chip. And that's kind of how this game feels. monument valley feels like you got someone really didn't like you and they got you a boring gift and you play it's like oh my god my life is transformed and i think that will happen if you give it a go you can find it there's three versions out the first one is good the second one adds the element of a of a secondary character that you have to maneuver around indirectly in the game.

32:43And the third one is more of that, but they add more elements like the sea. They add a broader sense of storytelling. In fact, it tells you a lot about what happened to the world. Don't want to get too into it. Don't say anything yet. I haven't played it yet. But definitely check it out. But what do you consider to be your ideal state of Zen when you play a game, Jen? Do you feel that it has to be where you just managed to crowd out all of your real life worries for maybe just 40 minutes, a couple hours, and that you stressed about something in the game and not like, oh, I can't pay my utility bill this month.

33:23Yeah, I definitely go through moods. Like right now, I'm enjoying building. So I'm doing a society quest in 14, where I'm helping a race of characters build a farm. I'm building stuff in Lego Odyssey, but a couple months ago, if you asked me what my Zen game was, I would have said Wolfenstein. Because I just felt like, you know what, I'm going to revisit some classics and go blow up some Nazis and I'm going to feel great. It is. There's something cathartic. Games offer one of three things. Catharsis, control, and Zen. Like, just an element of, like, I've let go. a very, you know, a Buddhist sort of mindset.

34:09But, you know, that's what gaming is about. It's not just a Zen, but it's about relaxing. It's about taking yourself out of the daily grind into a world that maybe is more favorable to your disposition at the moment. All right. So that is what we're going to end on this episode. So thank you very much for checking us out during this DTNS experiment week. And because it's all an experiment, we really need your help. Yes, you, specifically you. We really want your feedback on this and any other shows you checked out this experiment week. Please hit us up with all of your thoughts over at feedback at dailytechnewsshow.com.

34:48And thanks again for listening. Bye.

35:01This episode is brought to you by Capital One. Capital One's tech team isn't just talking about multi-agentic AI. They already deployed one. It's called Chat Concierge and it's simplifying car shopping. Using self-reflection and layered reasoning with live API checks, it doesn't just help buyers find a car they love. It helps schedule a test drive, get pre-approved for financing, and estimate trade-in value. Advanced, intuitive, and deployed. That's how they stack. That's technology at Capital One. Hey guys, it's Drew Afualo from the comment section. Listen, it's time to stop settling for hair products that just don't work.

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36:12Thank you.