Jet Lag from a Pilot’s POV - DTNS Weekend

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3:15welcome to yet another daily tech news show weekend edition gratefully provided to you and thanks for your support of this show and today i'm very excited to welcome back brian hoffman to the show uh brian good to have you back man thank you tom glad to be here if you explain to folks what you do who you are i mean you're a pilot uh is the easiest way but how do you usually explain it? I'm a pilot that flies a lot of different schedules, but I also like my solar projects. I like my farm. I like all the stuff. So I have to integrate everything into my life. Yeah. Usually we're talking solar technology when we've had you on in the past, but I wanted to talk to you about jet lag because we did a great episode a couple of weeks back with Dr.

4:01Nicky about the app called Time Shifter that will try to adjust you to flying across time zones. It was actually built for astronauts on the International Space Station who are flying very fast through many time zones all the time. And I thought it would be really interesting to compare that to what you have to do when you're flying across time zones on a regular basis, Maybe not as fast as the astronauts, but, you know, what are the patterns and ways of dealing with this that you have had to develop? And first of all, explain to us how your relationship with jet lag differs from the typical vacationer like me who, you know, once a year has to take a big trip across time zones.

4:48Well, depending on how I fly and depending on where I'm going to go, if I'm going to stay in the United States, I plan one way. If I'm going to fly around the world, I'll plan a different way because the number of time zones you travel across matters. And so if you're flying North and South, that's a lot easier because you're staying in a time zone. Yeah. Right. But let's just say you leave Seattle to go to Miami while you're doing it at eight o 'clock in the morning and you get there at four or five in the afternoon, or you're leaving there at 11 o 'clock at night and going to get there at seven o 'clock in the morning, the next morning, you have to plan differently.

5:21And so knowing what you're going to do drives your plan. And I imagine you do it regularly. And it's not something where it's like, okay, once a year or maybe twice a year, I have to think about this. Or even a business traveler who's crossing a couple of time zones multiple times a year, you're doing lots of different variations on this. For decades now, yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So where do you start with? What are some of the typical things you look at? What you're going to do first is you're going to figure out your sleep pattern. So if I need to sleep earlier to be prepared to go fly a trip, then I want to do that two days early.

6:02If I'm going to be sleeping, if I'm going to get up and fly a really, really early trip, maybe I just want to go to bed a little bit earlier just to slightly move. If I'm going to go fly to Europe, I actually sleep differently than if I'm going to go to Asia. If you take off and go to Asia, you get there in the morning. And so you kind of want to be ready when you get there, but you also are leaving 12, 13 hours prior. So that makes it really hard. So the next thing you think about on sleep is, am I going to take a nap when I get there or not? I know travelers want to get there. They're going to sleep the entire flight.

6:36I'm not. But then they're going to want to get out and do something. I may have to take a nap. A 20-minute nap, a 45-minute nap, or a three-hour nap, depending on where you're going and what you're doing, really can help a lot. And on those longer flights, do you sleep during the flight? If you're flying over eight hours, it's mandatory that you have a third pilot. If you're over 12 hours, it's mandatory to have a fourth pilot. And then we rotate sleep schedules to be able to take a nap when you're not in the seat. Yeah. And how long do you nap for then? And do you get, do you really get good sleep on a plane?

7:12Are you able to do that? Some people do, some people don't. And that's, that's obviously the trick. I sleep fairly well on an airplane because I've, I've been practiced for so long. I set up my sleep right, my caffeine usage correctly. I drink plenty of water. I stay hydrated. I do all the things I'm supposed to do to minimize the exposure. And then quite frankly, if you try to go to sleep and you can't, well then get up and do something else and then go give it a try again. Yeah. Yeah. Caffeine usage is one that the time shifter app was very good at kind of educating you about. What's your approach to that and also to just food in general?

7:53Caffeine is interesting because as a pilot, if you are getting ready for the approach and landing phase, you want to be awake for that. So an hour to an hour and 20 minutes prior to that is when you want to use caffeine so that it's in your system and you've gotten the benefit of being caffeinated before you'd eat it. But if you don't need it because you're about to go fly and you just slept, well, then you don't want to take any caffeine at that point because you want to save the usage for later. So it's a lot different than somebody getting in the back of the airplane than getting up in the front of the airplane.

8:26Yeah. And then as far as food goes, are there certain foods you try to avoid or are there certain foods that really you find helpful? Well, I find a light snack is way more helpful than anything large. And so I might eat two or three times during the day, a lighter snack. But you eat a big meal. Everyone knows you eat a big meal. You just have this big gut bomb and you're not gonna be able to sleep. Yeah, yeah. How do you handle dark and light? Both before the trip, during the trip, and after you get there? Before the trip, obviously blackout curtains, which my house, We've got very dark room because I need to be able to take a nap either before or after I'm going to go fly.

9:11Same thing in the hotels. You want blackout curtains. I know people who bring clothespins with them to pinch the curtains closed. I have at times used a chair in the room to make a set of curtains close a little more tightly so they can blackout more light. light is one of those things like Dr. Nicky said when the sun goes down it gets dark, cool and quiet that tells your body it's time to sleep it's Pavlovian to us, right? so I want to make those things happen when I want to go to sleep and you're preparing your body by going to sleep a little earlier before, is that roughly what you do? sometimes you want to be completely awake yeah yeah sometimes you want to be ready to go take a nap uh it really it depends on the schedule it's very very different for the for the air crew and if i'm going to fly two hours i'm going to get there at three o 'clock in the morning or three o 'clock in the afternoon there's a difference you know if i'm going to fly that red eye and get there at six o 'clock in the morning when i get there do i want to go to sleep right away or do i want to get up and do my exercise do all the other stuff and then go take a nap.

10:25Yeah. But you're going to, you're not going to try to power through from 6am till, till bedtime that night. You're going to take a nap. It sounds like. Absolutely. You have to. And it really just depends on what your schedule is, what you, what you feel good about. Well, let's talk about it because exposing yourself to light, probably the easier thing, uh, for, for people to deal with. Uh, there's usually a lot of light to be had if you want it. What, how, how do you use, what are your tips and tricks besides the clothespins in the chair for, for keeping things dark? I have a little red flashlight that I keep with me.

10:59Um, and that way, when I turn that on, if I need to use the restroom, I'm not, you know, giving myself blue light. Um, I have also seen people travel with a little nightlight. Now, a lot of hotels have now have the little slut, you know, small glowing light, but everybody has a shaver outlet. So if you bring your outlet or you bring your flashlight, you can plug that into the outlet. And now you don't have the whole bathroom lit up. And then you can go back to bed. Yeah, that's great. Episode prep gets messy when research, Slack threads, and script trackers are all in different places. That's where ChatGPT work comes in.

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14:14A window's been broken at home. You're miles away. In one second, everything can change. That's why ADT's security systems can monitor your home 24-7. They're backed by the most company-operated monitoring centers in the industry, so you're always supported during an emergency. When every second counts, count on ADT. Visit ADT.com to learn more. Do you have a better room location that you want to pick? Does that play into it? Yeah. I don't want the morning or evening sun, depending on when I need to get up to go fly. So if I'm about to fly east in the evening, then I would like a west room. to where it's facing, to where I'm not getting the sun, right?

15:02So I want it to be dark before I need to go fly. So if you're in Australia, obviously the south side of the building is better because you're in the southern hemisphere. If you're in Japan, you're obviously in the northern hemisphere. So figuring out a north room or a south room, east room or west room, to me it's when am I going to leave? When do I need to take off? When do I need to get ready? And I want it to be dark or light, depending on what I'm about to go do. So, yeah, that room selection is key. And I've I've changed rooms quite a few times. Yeah. I think that's something people these days are a little more reluctant to do.

15:46They just kind of take the room they get. But I remember when I was a kid, you know, my parents always would ask to even see the room before they accepted it sometimes. So that's still a thing you can do? You say please a lot. And a lot of people will be more than happy to go, well, I have this other option A or option B. And you take the one that's better. Right. Now, in some of the notes you sent me beforehand, you mentioned breathing tech. What are we talking about there? All right. So let's just say you're wide awake. Well, yoga people know that if you breathe correctly, you take in a long, deep breath and exhale very slowly.

16:23what happens is you start becoming more calm. So if you show up someplace, you go, I just can't sleep. And you go, but I have to sleep for whatever your, whatever your reasons are. I start breathing very slowly because you have a voluntary system and an involuntary system. When you stand up, you don't tell your muscles to move to stand up. They just do what they're supposed to do. Your heart beats because it has to beat your lungs. You know, inhaling and exhaling is both voluntary and involuntary. So there's a connection between the two systems. So if you slow down your breathing, you slow everything down.

16:59And then you can also tighten muscles and relax them, like your leg muscles or your abdomen muscles. Yoga people know this really, really well. It's where I got it from as yoga instructor. And you calm yourself down very, very quickly. And then at that point, you're either tired enough that you can go to sleep or if you can't and you get up and go do something else, then come back later and try again. Yeah. You mentioned that before. Um, what kind of things do you do when you're like, well, I should be sleeping right now. I'm trying to actually stay in the dark because of that. Uh, so, so what, what can you do that, that won't actually wake you up more, but kind of expend some of that nervous energy?

17:38I go for a walk. Yeah. I don't go work out. I just go for a walk. Mm-hmm. You're not building up too much. You're just, yeah. Just want to go burn off some of that time, effort, and energy and come back, give it a shot again. Yeah. Anything else or does a walk usually do it for you? Tried and true. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. What other tips do you have for other people who either travel professionals like yourself, who travel a lot and travel far or just people who are interested in like, you know what? I want to take a really ambitious trip one of these days and I want some of the best tips. The best things I can do is stay hydrated, know what you're going to do for your activities.

18:27And sometimes going to the museum at seven o 'clock or eight o 'clock in the morning when it opens is better than going at two or three in the afternoon. Yeah. So sometimes you're going to be against the schedule of most people, but you actually get a better experience. Yeah, but take advantage of that. Yeah, I've been to a couple of museums where you're there with three people. It's quiet, it's calm. You can look at the artwork. You can ask questions of the docents that are there. It's a wonderful experience. And other times you're in the middle of the thick of it with everybody else. Yeah, yeah.

18:59Um, and if you're going to do like my brother-in-law just came back from a trip where he went to several places, um, stayed in Europe for a couple of days. And he went to the Middle East for a day or two. He's got several time zones he's got to worry about. And so just like us who, you know, fly around the world, you kind of have to plan that middle ground of where am I going to be most of the time? Or when, when do I want to expend most of my time awake where I'm about to go be? Yeah. Yeah. And that's an art. A lot of people can't do it. And a lot of people I fly with have a hard time with it as well.

19:38So it's one of those things. Sometimes caffeine is just that crutch you're going to land on or that power nap. But if you do just a little bit of planning and think outside the box, you probably have a much better experience. Is there anything you tried that didn't work that you would say, you know, go not where I went? I tried this one and it didn't help. Wow. Because there's so many places out there that are like, we've got the thing that will cure your jet lag. Or, you know, you're on social media and somebody's got three trips that will make you never have jet lag. And a lot of them I know are not good advice.

20:17I have done this for decades. And I will tell you, there are some people that are miserable their entire career because they just can't get to sleep right. I can sleep pretty much anytime or anywhere. I can stay ahead of any of the fatigue issues most of the time. The one thing I will say is when you get someplace, don't eat a big meal. Just don't eat. I mean, just something small. And I always carry protein bars or I have Nutter Butters with me because I like those. Those are great. Yeah. And I have a couple of the little granola bars and whatnot. Eat a granola bar instead. Yeah. Yeah. It's plenty of food.

20:58And then if you're going to, if you're going to rest immediately, great. If you're going to go work out or go do something, you got enough there. Yeah. The one thing we haven't mentioned in this conversation yet is melatonin. Is that something you even bother with or what do you think of that? No. I understand what melatonin is. Pilots are not allowed to use melatonin and then fly for a certain amount of time there's a restriction and so possible understand that but uh i try not to do anything medical like that at all because we're also tested all the time so yeah yeah you've got to make darn sure that if it's not approved by the faa medical to go good to go use it then don't yeah and if anybody is like wait what's melatonin again uh it's a hormone uh and in some countries it's controlled in the United States.

21:51It's not, you can buy it at the grocery store, but it will, it will mimic the body's natural release of melatonin when you're getting sleepy. And so the idea is you take it and it makes you sleepy. So it makes perfect sense to me that pilots would not be allowed to take it when they need to be awake and flying the plane. Right. Right. That's true of a lot of, a lot of medications that are over the counter. We have to know which ones we're not allowed to take, or we're not allowed to fly until So you get past a certain half-life requirement. Well, Brian, thank you so much for helping us understand this a little better.

22:25Really appreciate it. If folks want to follow the many things that you do out there, because you've got a lot of talents and a lot of activities, is there a place you direct people these days? I don't necessarily. I will say if you want to plug Allison Sheridan's pod feet stuff, I have done some astrophotography work and I've been on that a couple of times. That was a lot of fun to do. And I've got another one that's in the can. Yeah, go check those out. Look for Brian's name at podfeet.com. Allison is off on a trip right now, but you can dig back into the archive. She's got prerecorded stuff.

22:59It's not like she's missing episodes either. So that is a great recommendation. Brian, thank you again, man. I appreciate it. Absolutely. Good help. And thank you, everybody, for supporting us at patreon.com slash DTNS. We will be back with brand new newsy episodes on Monday. Have a great weekend of today.

23:23The DTNS family of podcasts. Helping each other understand. Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this program.

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24:09There's a reason millions of people start their day with Morning Brew Daily. Each morning, we break down the biggest news in business from the latest tech headlines to why nobody can afford a house right now. All in a format that fits seamlessly into your day. You'll leave each episode of Morning Brew Daily smarter and ready to take on the world around you. I'm Toby Howell. And I'm Neil Freiman. And we're ready to show you that business news doesn't have to be boring. So join us on Morning Brew Daily, available wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you.

25:08Thank you.