Meta is testing AI use in technical interviews - DTNSB 5070

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2:54This is the Daily Tech News for Tuesday, July 29th, 2025. We tell you what you need to know, follow up in the context of those stories, and help each other understand. And today we got Jason Kebler from 404 Media joining us to talk about Meta's new policy of letting candidates please use AI during their coding interviews when they're interviewing for a job. Total turnabout. We're there already. I'm Jason Howell. I'm Tom Merritt. Let's start with what you need to know with that big story. All right. Super thrilled to welcome to the show Jason Kebler from 404 Media. Jason, it's great to have you here today.

3:31Hey, thanks so much for having me. I always love having you guys. Your reporting on the 404 is top-notch. Absolutely love what you guys are doing. And this story is super interesting. Your reporting is showing how Meta is pushing to make its technical interviews more, I don't know, representative of modern coding environments, which might happen to use AI, I guess is one way to put it. So why don't we just start there? What did 404 Media see in the internal communications that really make up the foundation of your reporting here? Yeah. So basically, I saw an internal message board post. I mean, it looks like Facebook, but Facebook uses like an internal version of Facebook to talk about things going on at the company.

4:12And basically, it was an executive there asking for volunteers to do a mock AI enabled interview is what they were calling it. And so they basically said, like, we are going to start allowing job candidates to use an AI assistant during the coding portion of some of our interviews. And like they said that this is for two reasons. They said, one, it's going to be better reflective of the work environment that they're in, meaning a lot of Facebook software engineers at the moment use AI while they're coding. and they also, I mean, it sounds like they believe that people have been cheating on their coding interviews by using LLMs.

4:56They say, quote, this will also make LLM-based cheating less effective. And so it sounds like they're redesigning the coding portion of their interview to, I guess, be more like what it's going to be like on the job, but then also they're trying to sort of LLM proof the coding portion of it by allowing LLMs. And so presumably that means that the questions that they ask will be, I don't know, like more reflective of sort of like, do you know what you are doing in a way that like you can't cheat by using an LLM? Like, are you good at prompting essentially? Yeah. Yeah. And even like maybe explain like you got this result back from your LLM.

5:41Is that, is that good or not? Like you have to evaluate that stuff too. I would imagine. Yeah. Maybe something like that. And then also maybe like explain sort of like why you prompted the LLM in this way or how, uh, like how your process works, uh, for doing this. I I'm not exactly sure. Cause I haven't seen an example of what this is going to look like. And it sounds like they're still developing it, but this is also something that like teachers and professors in colleges are going through right now. I've done a lot of reporting where a lot of teachers are trying to LLM proof their essays and their exams.

6:18And in some cases, that means they are allowing students to use AI, but the types of questions that they're asking require students to explain how and why they used AI and where their work began and the AI's work ended. It's fascinating to me because we really are in a transitional period right now. AI and the tools that we're talking about here have only really been around for a couple of years, yet obviously they've made a dramatic impact on pretty much everything in technology. So you've got teachers, you've got companies recognizing that these tools exist and not only exist, but people are using them, whether they're being forthright about that or not.

7:00and it kind of feels like the future, it's very transitional right now. They're trying to figure out how do we enable but also protect against them. It's kind of, they're trying to do both things at the same time. It's interesting. Yeah, yeah. It's happening in every industry and obviously like coding and software development, this is where coding agents and coding assisted or AI assisted coding has like really, really taken off. but I've talked to lawyers who are wondering like, how are we going to use this in writing briefs? We've had lawyers who have gotten caught using AI and I've spoken to lawyers and they're like, well, everyone is using it.

7:43These are just the people who have left in artifacts that sort of show that they were using it and didn't review it properly. And so, yeah, I really do think that it's probably a moment where, especially at these big companies where they're asking their employees to use AI, they probably have started feeling like, well, let's have a job interview that actually reflects like what we're asking people to do. Yeah, that makes sense. There's always the calculator analogy, right? Like there are tests you take where you are allowed to use your calculator because that's part of showing that you understand the underlying concepts is that you can properly use it.

8:20This sounds similar to that to me. I think so. I think so. And I didn't include this in my story because I needed sort of more sourcing, but I think I can still talk like more broadly. I think that there's this moment in the software engineering profession where people are really worried that tech companies are going to bring in a lot of lower level engineers who are really good at vibe coding, but maybe aren't as good at reviewing things when they go wrong, or maybe don't understand the code that they are writing with the assistance of AI tools. And so, you know, I've heard of employees in this space sort of saying like, we're going to get ourselves into some like massive tech debt that we might not be able to get ourselves out of.

9:07And then at the same time, it's like a lot of senior coders are also using AI. And so I think it's going to be, as you said, a transitional period to see sort of how this plays out. Have you heard, in light of your reporting, and I realize it's relatively newly published, but throughout the publication of this and everything, have you heard of any backlash inside Meta to this effort? Was there anybody on the string that was like, this is a horrible idea? Because when I think of vibe coding as a word, I almost want to put that into like, ooh, that's a bad word. I've talked to enough developers.

9:44A little bit of an eye roll to it, yeah. Yes, you hear Vibe Coding. I've talked to enough developers who always say that word, but with a snarl attached to it. So I'm just curious what the reception might be to something like this inside the company. Yeah, I mean, I am not a software engineer. And so I think vibe coding, the term has become a really popular one for just people understanding like these are people who are coding who don't necessarily know how to code, but they have a creative idea and they sort of know how to prompt, you know, ChatGPT or Claude to help them write this code. And then there's obviously like AI assisted coding where I would imagine the difference here is like a more experienced person who knows what they are doing or sort of use it instead of using like Stack Overflow or something like that.

10:35Like that's just my impression of sort of the difference between Vibe coding versus AI assisted coding. I'm not exactly sure how this is being received at Meta. It is pretty new. I do know some people have volunteered. And I would imagine that the thoughts and feelings are maybe a little all over the place. Like Mark Zuckerberg has gone on Joe Rogan. He's gone on the Dwarkesh podcast and said, you know, we think that our AI coding agents can be mid-level software engineers. And then he also said that by next year, he thinks a majority of code at meta will be written by AI. And so I would imagine that there's some, maybe some excitement about like, okay, we can perhaps automate some of these tasks, but then probably also some concern like, oh, are they just going to replace us with AI coding bots?

11:30and am I going to be forced to troubleshoot code that was written by AI that has gone wrong in some way and who knows how because you know there's going to be so much of it yeah saying it's like a mid-level engineer though is a little like saying uh your your car will replace the the rider of the horse though right you're you're replacing the vehicle not necessarily the mind that drives it yeah I mean it sort of depends on how how it's deployed I think in the short term it will absolutely be humans who are overseeing like and prompting the AI and sort of asking it, like having it do specific projects, obviously.

12:09But if you've listened to how Zuckerberg has talked in some of these interviews, he's like, we're going to let our agents go wild, and they're going to like invent new features and things like that. And so I think the longer term dream is is something more than just like oh humans are are going to like oversee ai and it's going to become more efficient it sounds like especially at meta they're very interested in kind of like letting these coding agents loose and seeing what happens and i i think that's i guess i wish them luck with that i don't know how that turns out um i'm sure that you know i'm sure they're going to do it in a way that's going on there.

12:49Yeah. Break their gigantic, you know, tools that are used by billions of people. So we'll see. I mean, we're seeing meta in so many ways right now, a day after day, showing telegraph, you know, telegraphing to everyone how committed they are to AI. They've got the super intelligence lab. Now they're like, yes, let's bring it into the interview process. You know, everybody's making a bet right now. And they all seem to be making the bet that AI is the direction that all of this is heading. And it makes sense to lean into it instead of away from it. And I guess that just remains to be seen. I guess one last point.

13:30It's very interesting because Anthropic, which makes Claude, actually says that they are not going to allow job candidates to use AI in the coding portions of their interview process. So here you have an AI company that develops a lot of these tools saying, we want to make sure that you know how to code on your own without using these tools. And so it's interesting to see sort of the dichotomy there where you have two companies both pushing forward in AI, but asking very different things of their perspective new employees. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'll be curious to see if Anthropix sticks to that or if it modifies it or if there's a combination.

14:10And same for OpenAI and everybody else. It'll be very interesting to watch how these companies navigate these sorts of policies. Yeah. Yeah, indeed. Well, Jason, love your reporting. Love the work you guys are doing at 404 Media. It's 404media.co.co. And yeah, excellent reporting. Thank you, Jason, for joining us today to talk about this. Yeah, thank you so much. And we're on YouTube and have a podcast. If you just search 404 Media, you'll find it. Excellent. Everyone should check that out. Thanks again, Jason. Cool. Thank you so much. DTNS is made possible by you, the listener. That's right. You get to take credit for this.

14:48Go around, tell everyone I did that. I made DTNS possible. At least if you're a patron like Pele Glendale, Tim Deputy, or Brandon Brooks. Yeah. Episode prep gets messy when research, Slack threads, and script trackers are all in different places. That's where ChatGPT Work comes in. Give it the goal and connect to the tools where work happens, like apps and files, and it can help pull the pieces into a draft you can review without you having to re-explain the project at every step. For example, ChatGPT Work can gather team feedback from Slack and use it to suggest updates to a project brief in Google Docs.

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18:26There is more we need to know today, so let's get to the briefs and talk about it. Apple is closing an Apple store. Now, it's closed Apple stores before without relocating them. It actually moves them around quite often, but it has closed a store without opening it somewhere else a few times. Only done it four times in the U.S. unless you count. They used to have one at Apple headquarters that they closed. I don't know if I really count that. That's more of a decision made for other reasons. But four times they've said this location is just not worth having. It's never done it in China until now.

19:03And so some people are looking at this like, hold on, what's going on with Apple in China? We know they're having problems there. Apple's going to close its store in Parkland Mall in Dalian City. It's got two stores in the city. The other store will remain open. At the same time, Apple is opening new stores in Beijing and Shanghai this year. So it's not going to net lose. It's going to net add a store in China. And Jason, you pointed this out when we were talking about this story before the show. It's not the first store to leave Parkland Mall. Coach, Sandro, and Hugo Boss have also left in recent years.

19:38So I don't know, Jason, does this say more about Parkland Mall in China than it does about Apple? Yeah, I mean, that was kind of my question reading through it. Like I even told you, I was like, is this a notable story? And you're like, well, yeah, it is. Because in my mind, I was like, you know, I'm just at this point pretty used to like driving past a mall and seeing nobody there and realizing half of it's in empty. Hey, I've never been to China, so I don't know how the mall dynamics are in China. But knowing that other companies, other businesses had also kind of, you know, were also part of this exodus from the mall made me question like, OK, well, maybe this is, you know, a dynamic that's specific to that particular place.

20:20Having said that, if it's the first time it's ever happened for Apple, they've got to have a good reason. Like Apple stores generally do pretty darn well. Yeah, yeah. I don't doubt that Apple is still struggling in China. They are. and I don't doubt that there are mitigating factors in this particular closing. So I wouldn't take this as your evidence of what's going on with Apple in China, especially, like you said, malls worldwide are struggling. Some are booming, some are not. And China itself is having deflationary pressure right now. So there's some rocky seas going on in its economy altogether.

20:59So yeah, I feel like we cover this story because you're going to see the headline And we wanted to give you the context of like, this is significant, but maybe not for the reasons you might assume. That right there. Yeah. Adobe launched new AI power tools for Photoshop. I know I'm going to be checking these out pretty closely. I'm very curious about a few of these. One of these, which I'm going to talk about right now, generative upscale is something that I've been wanting for a while. It's going to increase resolution on an image up to eight megapixels. Very useful for restoring old photographs or if you have a photo that you want to upscale because it was a lower res image and now you want to turn it into a print project, things like that.

21:38There's also a harmonize feature. And this one's interesting. It allows users to fit a new digital image, object, whatever, into a scene. You can remove the background, of course, from that placed image. But you can also make a series of adjustments using AI to make sure that it blends into the scene naturally. So adjusting color, lighting, shadows, tones, that sort of stuff. So it feels like it fits into the scene better. And then lastly, an updated object removal algorithm that Adobe says results in cleaner removal and gap filling without some of the usual unwanted artifacts that sometimes appear I've used in the past.

22:15And that's certainly happened for me. The new features available in beta form right now, Harmonize, by the way, also available in the iOS app through an early access program. So if I'm understanding you right, Jason, I can take an old photo of the Beatles, upscale it to modern resolution, remove Ringo and replace him with me. Yes, with no artifacts. No artifacts. Yes. And not only that, replace him with an image of you from your studio that wasn't shot like the same studio. And maybe the Harmonize will make it look. I don't know if any of this will actually work, Tom, but I think you should try.

22:51and that should be like art published on the Daily Tech News Show website. If only Adobe could make me a better drummer. Yeah, Adobe can't help you with that. Jack Dorsey's new messaging app, BitChat, as Rob Dunwood said when we talked about this earlier, you have to be very careful. Yes, that's true. I didn't think about that. Oh my goodness. Is launching in the Apple App Store. No test flight needed anymore. So if you recall, BitChat lets users chat with others nearby using Bluetooth. So you don't need the internet. And therefore, it's secure in a different way, right? It's not going out on the open internet.

23:33There's no central server, et cetera, et cetera. Users don't need to log in to use the app. It's simple and easy to understand. A box shows up. Anybody who's nearby, you can select and chat with just using their display name. Uh, the apps available on the Apple app store now, now the Android version is still out there on GitHub. Uh, we don't have that coming to the play store yet, and there are a few imposter apps in the play store. So be on the lookout for fakes there. Uh, this really, I realized, you know, okay, the technology, the app, the purpose and everything that's neat and everything. Okay.

24:09Um, but wow, did they never say it out loud or is that the point or is that the point? Because you can be anonymous on this and then bit chat the person nearby without anyone else knowing about it. God, now I never want to say the word. I never want to say the name of the app, and that's not a good thing. Yeah. You do, and very enunciated. All kidding aside, there are some legitimate uses for this where you're like, yeah, I want to be able to talk to people in my vicinity. and it can work over long ranges if there's enough connection, you know, because it used Bluetooth and Wi-Fi direct actually.

24:48So it's not going out on the internet, but it can go longer range. And if there's enough people at scale using it, you could start messaging people on the other side of town and it never has to go to a central server. So I think this is a really interesting experiment. It's not the first time anybody's done it. There have been a lot of other attempts to make this happen, but having Jack Dorsey's name behind it It might give it the momentum it needs. Yeah. Interesting. I'm kind of struggling to find the time that I would choose to use it, but I know it exists. I just don't know what it is. Yeah.

25:17It's not an everyday use necessarily. It could be situations where you need to be circumspect with your communications, maybe you're a whistleblower or you're covering some kind of government uprising in an oppressive country, something like that. That makes sense. Elgato has launched the FaceCam 4K webcam. It lets users record in 4K, 60 frames per second. Pretty standard webcam fare in 2025. It's unique, though, in that it supports 49-millimeter lens filters. So different types of lenses that you can put on there. That allows users to apply cinematic filters, maybe reduce glare, the types of things that you can do with pro cameras.

25:58Elgato offers a free circular polarizing filter when you order through the Elgato store. So if you're going to get one of these, order through them and you'll get a free lens. It works with Elgato's Camera Hub software. So you get manual controls, saves those settings directly to the camera. And then that camera connects to your source via USB-C. It also actually works with Nintendo Switch 2. The Elgato FaceCam 4K available for$199.99. Tom, what do you think about this camera? I mean, I ordered it seconds before we recorded. So I guess I like it. I love the idea of the filters. I love the 4K at$200 price.

26:37Not the cheapest 4K webcam you can get, but Elgato makes really good stuff. And I have been rolling with a Logitech C920 since you and I were on Buzz Out Loud. So it's been a minute with that. It's a lovely camera. Probably not going to get rid of it. I'll keep it as a backup camera, but I kind of want something better for on the road and something 4K. And I'm going to give this one a shot because I love the idea of the filter that can reduce the lens flare. I love the idea of having some other filters I could swap in and out. And I have the Elgato prompter. So I'm going to try using it with that and see if it can actually replace my DSLR, which webcams are getting good enough.

27:18I think it can. Yeah. Yeah. And Elgato has a nice ecosystem going. It's the kind of thing that once you start buying Elgato gear, you're more incentivized to continue buying their gear and their solutions for other things because they all work so well together. And they're good quality. I mean, Elgato is a great value quality brand. It has been my experience with them. Yeah. It's Corsair. The RAM people own Elgato and make that stuff. And I always liked their RAM, too. So it seems like it's a good company. And I'm looking around. I'm like, oh, yeah, I have a stream deck. I have the prompter. I have the adapter, the Elgato adapter for taking the DSLR into the laptop.

27:59So next I might have the actual camera. They're slowly taking over. Yes. Google Pixel has some good news and some bad news. Should we start with the good news? Yes, I think so. We usually start with the bad news, but not us. We're starting with the good news. Pixel has moved past TCL into the fourth spot in the U.S. smartphone by market share. Shipped around 800 ,000 units in Q2, according to Canalyst. That's a 13 % jump over last year. Pixel holding its own. Still behind Apple, Samsung, and Motorola, but getting in the conversation here. Apple, Samsung, and Motorola collectively make up for 90 % of shipments nationwide.

28:40So, you know, we're not taking over yet, but getting close. And now the bad news. Another Pixel 6a caught fire. Only this time it happened after receiving the battery limiting update that was meant to prevent such an incident. The July 2025 update slowed charging, reduced battery capacity once certain phones had reached 400 charging cycles. That was not enough, though. And again, this wasn't like we have solved battery fires. It was like we're reducing the risk by doing this. But a Redditor called 6A, or I'm sorry, a Redditor's 6A had their phone erupt into flames while it charged overnight. Thankfully, the house was not set on fire.

29:26Google has not responded to Darst Technica for a statement on the incident. It's a bad thing to happen. But again, I want to emphasize this battery update wasn't we will prevent all fires. We have solved it forever. Any lithium ion battery could catch on fire at any time. And it's just unfortunate that after all the Sturman drawing about the Pixel 6 AA battery updates that this one happened. You know, honestly, it makes me wonder as we kind of talk about this and, you know, kind of from a level-headed perspective, like this stuff just happens at some point to some phones with batteries. It's just kind of part of the landscape.

30:04It doesn't, thankfully, it doesn't happen like all the flipping time. And if it does, that's big news. But if it happens every once in a while, that's not big news. And it makes me wonder how many times this sort of stuff does happen that we never hear about. Probably a lot more than one might suspect. Oh, yeah. I mean, think about how many lithium-ion batteries are around you right now. Oh, God. I don't even want to think about that. That whole top of the cabinet behind me is full of lithium-ion batteries. Now multiply that by the billions of people in the world who own multiple devices the way you do.

30:35And not saying every single billion does, but you only need a couple billion. And now you've got a lot of lithium ion batteries, and most of them are not catching on fire. It's a very small percentage. So, yeah, if we start to see that several of these, if we start getting dozens of them, that's still a small percentage. But that would be cause for concern. The fact that one erupted into fire after it had the update is very unfortunate. But I don't think it indicates that the updates don't work. Yeah, yeah, indeed. And finally, I was not on the show when you guys talked about the Commodore 64 Resurgence, the new owners, the classic computer company, of course, already announced its pending return under those new owners and a revival of the classic form factor with modern hardware.

31:23I'm really looking forward to hopefully checking that out, kind of tapping into that old school magic, that sort of stuff. Now Commodore has announced its first game, Xenon 3 Hyper Blast, which is a follow-up to a classic Amiga shooter series. It's less a sequel, apparently more of a reimagining of the original style. The new game is going to first hit Commodore's Starrcade ecosystem before making its way to Steam, PlayStation, and the Nintendo Switch. Commodore is also working on an updated version of Taito's New Zealand story. The Commodore 64 inning, it's upon us. I'm excited, although both of these, I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about, dude.

32:04And I was a huge Commodore 64 fan. I have pre-ordered, who knows if and when it will ship, the rebuilt Commodore 64 with the modern internals that will let you play the original cartridges by sticking them in the back. so the fact that they're they've got new games coming out and adding it to their online uh thing the starcade uh is great uh and probably getting more uptake you know because of of the the moves around it to get the new ownership on board and all of that uh i'm just wondering like can i get in on three hyperblast on a cartridge probably can't it's probably too big but there's probably something really satisfying about yeah that cartridge and plunk it in the you know this is a horrible idea, but you could do what Nintendo does, where the cartridge just signifies that you own the game.

32:55It can just carry a key that allows you to download it. They could do that. They could sell the old Commodore 64 cartridge and just has the key on there. Yeah, that's true. Don't do that. Join in the conversation, though. That is something you should do. You can join our Discord by linking a Patreon account. You can do that over at patreon.com slash DTNS.

33:21This episode is brought to you by Capital One. Capital One's tech team isn't just talking about multi-agentic AI. They already deployed one. It's called Chat Concierge and it's simplifying car shopping. Using self-reflection and layered reasoning with live API checks, it doesn't just help buyers find a car they love. It helps schedule a test drive, get pre-approved for financing, and estimate trade-in value. Advanced, intuitive, and deployed. That's how they stack. That's technology at Capital One. This message is brought to you by Cologuard. If you recorded songs off the radio for a mixtape, it might be time to screen for colon cancer.

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34:23We end every episode of DTNS with some shared wisdom. And today, Dan is helping us understand. Yeah, he wrote, just finished listening to your science weekend update with Dr. Nikki Ackermans and really enjoyed the in-depth one-on-one discussion about DNA and current use, the concerns and the limits around how it currently is being used, how it can be highly accurate, but not strictly zero chance for failure. I hope to hear more of these bite-sized, in-depth shows in the future. Keep up the good work. Long-time listener and supporter through Patreon for many years. Thank you for all you and your team do.

34:55Dan in Bellevue, Nebraska. Thank you, Dan. Thank you for your support. No, thank you. And yeah, we want to do more of those weekend feed kind of longer conversations. So yeah, we will keep it coming. Thanks for the encouragement, Dan. Indeed. Well, what are you thinking about? If you have any insight into a story, have any feelings to share about what we're talking about, feedback at DailyTechNewsShow.com. Big thanks again to Dan. Thank you to Jason Kebler from 404 Media for contributing to today's show and being with us. And thank you for being along for Daily Tech News Show. You can keep us in business.

35:30All you got to do is become a patron. That's Patreon.com slash DTNS. We'll see you tomorrow.

35:39The DTNS family of podcasts. helping each other understand. Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this program.

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37:09Thank you.