Meta Might Bring Facial Recognition To Its Ray-Bans - DTNS 5206

0:00This is the Daily Tech News for Friday, February 13th, 2026. We tell you what you need to know, give you the important context, and help each other understand. Today, Meta is returning to the well of facial recognition, this time with the Ray-Ban Meta Smart Glasses. Yeah, we'll talk all about it. I'm Jason Howell. I'm Wynne Dwight Dow. Let's start with what you need to know with a big story. Yes, so Meta is planning to add a name tag facial recognition feature to its Ray-Ban Smart Glasses later this year. This is according to four people involved with the plans who spoke with the New York Times about those plans.

0:40You can find the article on New York Times right now. The feature would allow wearers of the Ray-Ban smart glasses to identify people, to pull up information about them through Meta's AI assistant while, of course, looking through and wearing those lenses. Those internal documents, there are internal documents anyways, that reveal that meta executives were noting that the current U.S. political environment could actually divert the attention of privacy advocates from the rollout of such a feature. And if this sounds at all familiar, it's because Meta shut down Facebook's earlier facial recognition photo tagging system somewhere around like five years ago, if you remember, after legal and privacy backlash.

1:28That included multibillion-dollar settlements in Illinois and Texas over collecting facial data without permission. Now, Meta appears to be betting that the current political landscape might align more closely with the technology effort this time around. And, yeah, this is a really interesting story. I've got a few different minds about this. But before we dive in, like what's at the top of your mind on this, Wynne? What do you think? I'm not pleased. So just to be clear, these were internal documents that presumably – so just to clarify, New York Times probably had a source that provided them.

2:05the internal documents. So we can take it at face value that this discussion was being had about the fact that they were, is leveraging too strong of a word? Leveraging the current political climate to kind of divert attention, which it's obvious that people have had concerns about technology. So I'm not pleased at all. The first thing that came to my mind actually is that I live in the Denver metro area. And I believe last year there was a pilot program of the FLOC cameras for license plate identification. And then there was a proposal to extend it. The city council rejected it. And basically the mayor was able to secure an extension contract with FLOC because that extension contract fell under$500 ,000, which is the threshold at which it needs council approval.

2:53And then, so, but, but, and the reason the council rejected it is because Because people were, you know, I mean, I believe I didn't, I couldn't, when I was looking this back up, I forgot whether specifically they just knew that people weren't happy with it. But I do think that does show a bit of the temperature for this kind of thing that obviously some people are enthusiastic and are pushing for it. But I do believe, and I'm definitely one of those people that have a lot of reticence about, you know, surveillance technology. And that does apply not just to, you know, municipal things, but also to personal things.

3:28I don't, I mean, I was trying to think in my head an actual, you know, real person use case for name tag, just to be fair about like what use could I get out of being able to identify people and pull up information about them through an assistant through glasses. I mean I'm sure there's reasons like I mean I guess you could like say maybe someone who's having dementia for older folks might help them like retain information or maybe there's something for like I don't know doctors or medical care where they can easily pull up your information on the fly I don't know but it's still the intention I think also what and this is one thing that again I know I keep saying I'm an AI skeptic on this show in like very broad terms But I do believe that a lot of times in tech, the intention matters because the intention drives the intention and the initiatives are not initiatives, incentives, intention and incentives matter because obviously.

4:27it drives what, how companies strategize on, you know, getting their products either officially or even through public sentiment approved and just the way that they, you know, advertise things or, you know, just push things or, or even again, this, the fact that the internal specifically stated that they are leveraging the current market, the current, sorry, political state to avoid backlash because they know that it's there makes me very unhappy. Just I don't have anything smart to say. I'm just unhappy about it all. I mean, that whole let's do this while people are distracted thing is pretty icky.

5:05No doubt about it. And if it is in there, that's pretty maybe incriminating is the wrong word, but maybe but perhaps incriminating in the eyes of the public to, you know, to hear or understand that on top of what they might already feel about big tech and their intentions and the overall kind of long-term intention of big tech with artificial intelligence and all this kind of stuff. I mean, no doubt these glasses are a big success right now. I think they've sold more than 7 million units and I'm sure they're going to sell a lot more. There's already a lot out there. This one, like when I was thinking about this, I was like, like you, I was like, okay, well, where could this come in handy?

5:48Like where could it be, have legitimate uses? And like, I know for myself, like I, you know, I have issues with my memory sometimes and especially with people, I can, I can know someone very well. And then my mind just goes completely blank. And I'm like, I know you, why am I having a hard time remembering your name? You know? And it's, it's a very embarrassing thing, but it's something that I've gotten used to over the years. And so I guess maybe something like this could be useful in that regard. Although maybe this is kind of, using a blunt object for something that it doesn't need to quite go that far.

6:20But you take someone who's blind, you take someone who's low vision. This could be a life that, you know, this could be technology that is life changing for them to be like, oh, so-and-so just walked into the room. They might not know who, you know, that all they knew is that they heard someone walk in a room. Now they have an identity to attach to it and immediate recognition. That could be very useful. But then on the other hand, you know, you've got all the really bad stuff with surveillance, like identifying people at protests and, you know, identifying strangers in public places where maybe it's unsafe to do so or unmasking people.

6:56It's, yeah, it's a very complicated issue. And by the way, not the only time we're going to talk about it in this show. Yeah. I'm recently having conversations with a friend of mine who is another engineer who who works at a place that does use AI heavily. And I think a lot of, you know, we're both definitely on the very skeptical side of it. He has, you know, he's like very, also very concerned about the environment and aspects, which we've talked about. And I do think that there is, I know that there, so you mentioned an amazing use case for this. I don't have any arguments that, again, there are definitely cases, especially cases that would fall in the cracks, which tends to happen with some of the examples we gave, like people with low vision or blind folks, maybe like older folks with certain like memory or other cognitive issues that that it's hard because I feel like so many times we feel like technology is and can be a way to address these problems and help people that have fallen in between the cracks.

7:58But I do feel that that often misses the forest for the trees. And not to say that we don't, that these cases and these folks and these problems don't deserve concerted efforts. But I talk about Pandora's box all the time with tech, because that's honestly what I generally feel as a technologist is that our entire world often misses a forest for the trees. They see this really pretty box. They open it because there's maybe something good inside. And the problem is, is that the way that this is being approached, and I know I keep saying this, I'm very boring, is that especially given the drive to adopt these tools so quickly and for let's be fair, let's be kind, initially good intentions, it falls down a hole real fast.

8:45and that's, you know, how did he mention it? I don't know. Just because I think I know we tend to be very optimistic and just because something can do, let's say evil and use like a dramatic word, can do evil doesn't mean that it will be used for evil or that it doesn't deserve to exist. And certainly that's the case, but I don't know. I just like, I mean, going back to the flock cameras in Denver thing, I've enjoyed many, many parking lots where the gate just opens for me because it reads my license plate number and it knows it's able to, you know, it knew when I came in, it knew when I came out, I didn't have to pay.

9:19Like, I, like, it just sends me a bill in the mail. That's really awesome. And then when you see how, like, and then like there are reports in Denver news that what it's actually being used for predominantly is criminal investigation, which again, on its face, not so bad, but then we get into like, again, the more political discussion. So I guess that's just me waving my hand saying like, I don't know. pay closer attention and yeah if something makes you uncomfortable at this let's let's talk it out yeah i know it's not you know yeah i mean i'm you know i'm i'm a white american dude and so when it comes to like identifying identities and and stuff like that like you know i mean let's just be honest i have a lot less uh let's say risk or maybe you know less to lose or less uh less I don't know, moments where that would be used against me, I'd say, just based on the color of my skin and who I am versus someone else who, and especially in, you know, kind of a current landscape where things are really, really messy, technology like this kind of to your point can go down a bad road really fast.

10:26At the same time, like that, that also doesn't mean that technology shouldn't be explored and, and looked into because there could be benefits and there could be some way to do that responsibly. We don't even know how Meta, you know, plans to unroll this. I do think though, that having something in there that says, let's do this while people are distracted. Yeah. That kind of says something to me that I'm like, yeah, I don't know that just, that's icky. So, yeah. And, and you know what, we are going to talk more about flock safety here in a moment. So So if this topic is interesting to you, there's more to come for sure.

11:06All right. Well, we really appreciate the chance to get to talk about this for you guys. And of course, we have to thank you because DTNS is made possible by you, the listener. Thanks to Alo Adam L., Philip Les, and Howard Irmesh. Thank you, thank you, and thank you.

11:25All right, there's more we need to know today. Let's get to the briefs. Ring has canceled its planned but unlaunched integration with Flock Safety following heavy criticism that linking Ring doorbells with Flock's automated license plate reader technology would expand a privatized surveillance network accessible by police. Civil liberties groups and lawmakers warned about combining home video, AI search tools, and vehicle tracking could turn neighborhoods into always-on investigation zones. This follows public pushback in response to a Super Bowl ad for Ring's search party feature that showed dozens of cameras scanning a neighborhood for finding lost pets.

12:01Yeah, did you watch the Super Bowl? I did. I did. I did see this commercial. When that ad came on, like, what kind of feeling did it give to you? Because I was kind of like, on one hand, like, I'm a pet owner. Yeah. So I'm kind of like, oh, well, that's nice. That's nice. But that was the feeling that I had. It was like dot, dot, dot. I'm sorry. And I also, my apologies, I kind of jumped the gun on the flock conversation because obviously now it's mentioned something I talked about. No, not at all. They totally tie in together. Yeah. I immediately thought of, okay, so again, as the AI skeptic in the room, I'm sorry.

12:33I immediately thought of the Dark Knight where they are trying to find the Joker and they're using cell phones to like, you know, like geolocation. They're basically crowdsourcing anonymously and I guess without explicit consent, crowdsourcing the entire city to find a dangerous criminal. And I think even back then they knew that it was a bad thing, like quote, like, like, quote, unquote, big caps, a bad thing. And of course, Batman did use it, but they did destroy it afterwards. So I do feel like we, we have this cultural understanding that mass surveillance, especially as Americans, let's say that it's not good.

13:08um and then i thought well i guess in a sense this this kind of crowdsourcing of of of location does already exist that's like how air tags and like um you know uh what do we call them on android jason we don't call them air tags uh location tracking yeah yeah like whatever location sharing works uh i thought this was really weird i mean again like yeah finding lost pets is something that I think a lot of us can resonate with and pulls in our heartstrings. But, oh man, I felt a little, there was a lot of AI commercials for the Super Bowl. So to be honest, I think I definitely was like shocked at the time and then just got a little bit glazed over by so many of them.

13:50But yeah, I didn't feel great about it. Yeah, it was an interesting one. I mean, you know, I will admit we've got a ring doorbell. They were a sponsor when I was at Twit many, many years ago. And so we just still have the Ring doorbell and everything. But so, you know, full disclosure, I've got one on my door. But, you know, I see these things. Ring also recently rolled out its familiar faces, facial recognition feature that was just starting last December. It's a feature that we do not have activated on ours. The idea of turning these from kind of cameras that are useful for me and my home into like a publicly accessible network.

14:29I don't know. that crosses into territory that I don't know that I feel very comfortable with. And I mean, a lot of other people feel the same way. Plenty of social media pushback on these devices as a result of this news and some of the other related stuff around the Super Bowl and everything. Social media, some people are like, you know, pushing for owners to take their doorbells off and start smashing them or whatever. But it is important to point out like this never went live. So it didn't go live. This was kind of, you know, discussion possibility, never quite got there. I do think it's also interesting timing because it's kind of a confluence of events.

15:07It's this and then there's the Nancy Guthrie missing story where nest footage, which is not ring, but, you know, we're kind of talking about similar concepts here. nest footage was captured and recovered by police, even after she believed it had been deleted, which points to kind of a growing question about like, okay, well, even when we don't think that this footage is being recorded or saved to the cloud or whatever, you know, like it's being stored there. It can be tapped into. And I think people who own these devices just need to ask themselves like how comfortable they feel about that right now.

15:41Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. And I just want to emphasize again that I appreciate that it was civil liberties groups and lawmakers and basically public. I mean, we'll call it just generally public opinion and public thought that was kind of, you know, able to push back on this and presumably, you know, why it got canceled. So I guess, yeah, just let's just keep talking about it, y 'all. So let's keep talking. Yeah. Let's just keep talking about Anthropic. because Anthropic just raised$30 billion at a$380 billion valuation, scaling its frontier models, its enterprise distribution, which it's really strong at right now.

16:15The company is positioning itself as an essential AI layer across Fortune 10 firms, hundreds of customers that they have paying$1 million for what it offers annually. Anthropic, by the way, has gone from$0 to$14 billion in run rate revenue in under three years, zero to 14 billion. Major mover, of course, in all of this is Cloud Code. We've talked about Cloud Code, agentic use cases as well. Cloud Code is tied to an estimated 4 % of public GitHub commits, and projections are showing the potential of a sharp rise in that number by the end of the year. By the way, Anthropic also announced that it's bringing former Microsoft and General Motors executive Chris Liddell onto its board ahead of a possible IPO.

17:00That could happen as early as the end of this year. Anthropic is betting that his mix of Wall Street, corporate, even Washington experience could help the company navigate through kind of the complicated mechanics of going public during this widespread AI arms race and kind of the political moment that we're in as well. So yeah, Anthropic doing okay. Can it grow its business to match that price tag? That's obviously the big question that everybody has. Well, Google has finally brought an official native YouTube app to the Apple Vision Pro, some two years since the launch of the platform and device.

17:41So up until now, YouTube has relied on Safari for AVP, for AVP users rather, to access its video content. The new app offers an immersive interface, offline downloads, gesture controls for content scrubbing and resizing and a spatial tab for 3D, VR 180 and 360. The app supports up to 8K playback on the newer M5 based headsets, but also works on the M2 version as well. At a lower resolution cap, unsurprisingly, the app gives users access to YouTube videos and shorts in a theater size virtual screen set inside an immersive environment. That sounds really cool. I mean, it sounds cool. Why did YouTube not have it two years ago.

18:27Like it doesn't, I mean, I guess you get to it through Safari and maybe, you know, maybe YouTube is, you know, YouTube is part of Google is part of Alphabet and they've got their own kind of things going on in XR. They certainly didn't two years ago, but it's just interesting considering other platforms, you know, Disney plus Amazon prime video, Paramount Peacock, others have all had their own versions. Just kind of surprising to me, I guess that YouTube, you know, being one of the, if not the predominant video streaming platforms that even exist wouldn't have a native app for immersive viewing.

18:59Strange. I don't know. I find that strange. Have you seen anyone on a plane like using one of these or anything like that? My husband uses glass displays, face displays, glass displays, but not like a full, although one of my very good friends at work says he does bring his Apple Vision Pro because he has to commute from New York to California a lot. So he does bring it on the plane because it helps keep him occupied during the six hour flight, I think. Yeah, yeah. I haven't seen it firsthand, but this is another reason why this native app thing is really important because on Safari, you don't have that offline capability.

19:40And now you do. So people probably be pretty happy about that if they have these devices and want to use them on a plane. I would probably offer a face display like your husband. Well, I want to send him this link because I'm sure he actually might enjoy some, I mean, especially the offline. Yeah, the offline thing would be amazing for planes. That's a great point. I mean, yeah, that allows you to actually watch it. The Kodak Charmera. Charmera? Would that be how you pronounce this? I'm not sure, but it's a tiny thumb-sized digital toy camera. It shoots 1.6 megapixel photos. Remember those? Those tiny little numbers of megapixels.

20:17It purposefully targets the kind of images that you might expect out of old school flip phones. um it has a fixed 35 millimeter f to 2.4 lens on a tiny quarter inch sensor that's capable of shooting 1440 by 20 by 1080 uh still images the idea here is that it's so tiny so portable that you can just like clip it to your key ring and then take images uh you know take snap pictures with a little amount of friction no overthinking you just kind of pull it out take it and move on this tiny little nostalgia play costs$30. So it's not even that expensive. So yeah, nostalgia, it's a hell of a drug. I just, I mean, as said by someone who has a, has like a, has like a new, a new generation disposable camera.

21:09I'm sorry. What is that thing that you have? The flashback that makes the actual like clicking rotating sound when you advance the role. I know. In fact, I'm just going to wind it up and take it right now. I've been doing it on Android Faithful. There we go. It's got like an old school flash on it. It's yeah, basically it is a kind of a redux of the digital, the disposable cameras that you might see at like a wedding or whatever, but it's done in digital form. It only takes 27 images. You can't preview them. It takes 24 hours to develop. And it kind of signals a pattern with what we're talking about here with the Kodak Charmera, which is like simplifying kind of approach to things that, you know, we went far down the path of this thing does anything and everything.

21:58And now we're kind of there's there's a desire among some anyways, to go back to when there were limits and when things weren't the be all and I'll do everything you can possibly imagine machines that they have grown to be so it's a it's a really cute little camera i'm i i opened the article and looked at the picture it's about maybe the length of your thumb maybe it's tiny and it does have this old school also drive size maybe maybe larger than like an old school like usb thumb drive you know yeah and it's really cute the like the design also and i wonder if it's is it like charm like nostalgic charm oh charm yeah that's probably what it is it's either that or it's like a new pokemon which means which makes me think you should do kodak you should do a collaboration with Nintendo and Pokemon.

22:41I feel like you could do something like old school pictures of Pokemon. I don't know. Um, and yeah, the pictures definitely have that vibe. I remember my, my husband and I first started dating, he was really into like, um, old school, like actual film cameras and not just like regular film cameras, but ones that had a certain grain to it or just really had like, I wouldn't say distorted, but yeah, yeah, exactly. Like exactly. Like a Diana, I think it was like called the Diana or like the Lumen Luma something. I forgot what it was, but But the pictures give you that vibe as well. Can you imagine?

23:11It's so funny because we, the tech arms race in general feels like we've been hurling towards like 8K and like, you know, hyper, as you said, many, many, many, many megapixels. And I'm looking at a picture of cats that could have been taken like with a little potato phone. And what interesting nostalgia we get when we look at pictures like this. I know. It also goes to show that the limits of technology, like low bit rate, has a certain kind of quality to it. Tape, audio cassette tape has a certain quality to it that's imperfect, right? It imparts noise on it. The limits that we try to escape at one point with technology, at some point nostalgia pulls those limits back in as endearing qualities.

23:56And it's hard to believe that it will happen when you're in the moment. But then in the future and you look back, you're like, oh, yeah, I remember when images were like that. That's the point. That's so cool. You know, so it's interesting how it all works. I love it. All right. Well, do you want honest reviews from people who actually buy and live with tech? Well, you need Live With It. Sarah Lane hosts a weekly look at the tech she and others have spent months living with because they needed it. Listen to Live With It wherever fine podcasts are traded or watch at YouTube.com slash Daily Tech News Show.

24:28There you go.

24:31And now some quick headlines that are good to know might make you look smarter in the future. Google Docs is adding Gemini audio summaries to the mix, turning entire documents and tabs into a, quote, short verbal synopsis of the contents available to most paid subscribers. OK, I wonder if that's kind of like the notebook LM audio podcast kind of thing. They just kind of took that technology over into Docs. That makes sense. Apple shares slid 5 % after reports of fresh FTC scrutiny of Apple News. That along with a report from Bloomberg that hints at internal delays to the company's big AI upgrade for Siri.

25:10Well, Apple beat a third Optus wireless trial over 4G patents in Texas. After an earlier jury's$506 million infringement verdict against Apple was thrown out on appeal. Okay, so they tried again. Try, try it again. and it worked for them. OpenAI's new GPT 5.3 codex Spark is a smaller cerebrus powered codex model. It's capable of delivering up to five, sorry, 15 times faster coding for pro users. Of course, there is a trade-off of lower benchmark performance. All right. Well, Google Threat Intelligence Group is warning that state-backed and criminal hackers are weaponizing its Gemini AI across every phase of cyber attacks and that others are cloning the model through extraction to steal its logic and commercial value.

25:58And finally, if you're looking for a little way to earn some extra money, you know, maybe you thought a DoorDash. Waymo is paying nearby DoorDashers in Atlanta to physically shut doors left open by passengers of its Waymo robo-taxis to keep the fleet moving. So, you know, the passengers get out of the driverless cars and they don't properly close the door there's no driver to get out of the car and like close the door so now they're hiring door dashers to go close those doors when it happens this i don't even know how to describe how i feel about this because it's smart but also i mean so if you've ever been to japan i've taken a taxi in japan all the taxes in japan even the ones that are like kind of older cars you never have to open or close the door because they actually that you're not supposed to touch the door because the taxi drivers even in these old taxis can close the door automatically probably for this reason because honestly if people are getting out with their stuff you really can't close the door too easily um this is this is a way to do that too um and i guess provide door dashers a little extra and how much is that okay yeah it's like four or five dollars okay well that's not nothing um not nothing no totally i mean i don't know how much they keep you know how much that goes to DoorDash and the economics of that stuff.

27:17Also occurs to me that people who have a real like social, like, uh, uh, what, what is the word that I like social justice quality to them? They could be doing this intentionally. Like, well, I'm just going to leave the door open on the Waymo so it doesn't actually do anything after I get out. You know, I'm not encouraging anyone to do that. I'm just saying like, this seems like a really easy way to tie up a fleet. I'm surprised that these doors don't automatically shut themselves or, I mean, you know, or that they don't work on that next, you know, I'm sure they can make that happen. Well, we end every episode of DTNS with some shared perspectives.

27:54We usually don't feature emails from the same person two days in a row, but we decided to make an exception for Andrew. Welcome back, Andrew, in response to us reading his LinkedIn post yesterday. All right. Well, Andrew, Andrew writes to us, I really don't know if I can properly express my gratitude for, for that end of show segment today. I've gotten a fair few messages read on the show and I always try to be short, sweet and to the point to hear Tom read it all for the DGNS audience had me choked up before you even started talking about it. And then what a fantastic discussion. Thank you. I don't know what the opposite of skeptic is, willing adopter, but I'm more on the side of the spectrum after what I've been able to guide my team to do with coding assistance recently.

28:34Not more or faster, but different and higher quality than expected. I was very glad to find common ground with Huyen, even if we might be leaning different ways on AI. My team is wrapping up a project this week and we're going to try an AI hackathon next week. Maybe we want to see what new things we can discover with a group that already knows how to work together well. The fact that the excitement of AI has made them want to connect in person post-project in downtown Denver, not always a fun drive, preach, is just more proof that the connection is the thing. Okay, I'm going to stop there. All right, all night.

29:06Thank you. Thank you again, Andrew from Colorado. Yeah, so yesterday, Andrew, just if you don't remember or for you, Jason, Andrew basically said that a lot of it is like, you know, and we've talked about this a little bit too, is that while, you know, micro apps and such are a thing. And even if you watch all the Super Bowl ads, a lot of the ads have this like very AI will do everything for you. And Andrew's point is that especially in software engineering and software development, that's like that's not that's not really a thing just because a software product is a confluence of not just coding, but also requirements, understanding users.

29:39And that a lot of a lot of this discussion kind of loses out on that fact. And I did say, I did agree. And I've had managers say, you know, especially for someone like, you know, mid to senior and above, a lot of my week, unfortunately or not, is not coding. It's meeting and talking to people and understanding problems. So Andrew wanted to emphasize that that is still there. And so that maybe as he's explaining, AI can be a way to bring teams together. And they're getting excited about it. And that brings them together to do things around that. That's, that's, yeah, something to pay attention to.

30:14I mean, I don't really have too much to add. And I am a skeptic. I do have concerns, but I don't think that anything that Andrew is describing is what my concern is. And I think if anything, Andrew, I think that the approach that y 'all are taking is what I'd like to see is that we don't lose the human element and that it becomes a tool rather than a replacement. And again, I'm not just saying that because I'm nervous about my job, but because I worry a little bit. And again, in the theme of everything we've talked about, that people aren't seeing the forest for the trees. And that, may I say that I have heard buzzings from friends and stuff that a lot of companies right now are maybe measuring success of AI in the wrong way.

30:54I think what you guys are doing and connecting and trying to discover how you can accelerate or do things differently is what I would like to see. but I will like I've heard people say that people are now being evaluated at work on their performance just by the number of tokens they use or how many PRs they put up PR is basically when you finish a project and you put it up for review it's literally just like how much output like how much meat's coming out of the grinder if you want to use like a more like Pink Floyd-esque imagery and that's what I have a problem with and I have a big problem with that and I wish more teams would approach it the way Andrew seems to be approaching it.

31:29But unfortunately, a lot of folks are viewing it from a just grind out the code and forget the people and forget the impacts of this. So again, I have to say, Andrew, I do feel like I know I keep saying the skeptic word, but I do feel like I love the way that you guys are approaching it. And I want to hear more from that from other folks, too. So anyway, sorry, Jason. That's my bad. Love it. Love it. Preach. Preach. All right. All right. Well, what are you thinking about? Do you have some insight? We would love to hear it. Feedback at DailyTechNewsShow.com. And thanks to Andrew again, day two, for contributing to today's show.

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33:17The DTNS family of podcasts, helping each other understand. Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this program.