Meta Plans to Slash Spending on the Metaverse - DTNS 5158

0:00This is the Daily Tech News for Thursday, December 4th, 2025. We tell you what you need to know, give you the important context, and help each other understand. Today, Andy Beach tells us about AI-assisted diner tags and Meta's plans to make big changes to its metaverse strategy. Oh, ch-ch-ch-changes. I'm Jason Howell. I'm Wintwet Dow. Let's start with what you need to know with the big story. Apparently, the big story is not the metaverse in the world of technology. Meta is planning steep cuts to its metaverse efforts that would include Reality Labs virtual reality. It would also include Horizon Worlds unit.

0:41Discussions are considering a reported reduction of up to 30 % for those groups in 2026. So that's a pretty sizable shift if it is to happen, right? This is all happening kind of internally. Many of the layoffs in these groups could happen as early as January. So pretty soon, right around the corner. The Metaverse unit apparently has lost more than$70 billion since 2021. You might remember that's when Zuckerberg, Mark Zuckerberg's CEO, announced the company rebrand to Meta. Remember when? That was just a couple of years ago, really. Feels like forever. and pitched a metaverse focus for the future of the company.

1:26And my, how things have changed in just a couple of years. Not only that, we've got investor pressure kind of pushing the scales or weighing down the scales to say, hey, it's time to move on. That's coupled with, I'd say, a lack of really meaningful competitive interest in this category. And that, and I think some of the impacts of like VR, health impacts for kids. It's a number of things that are driving these potential cuts. But are you surprised, Wynn, if meta changes course and starts to kind of de-accelerate, or decelerate, I guess would be the word, its VR and its metaverse efforts and probably accelerate, I'm guessing, the AI efforts that they have going on?

2:14I can only be astounded by my lack of astonishment or lack of surprise. I mean, that's kind of a very meta thing, right? It kind of takes big swings and sometimes, you know, and tries to be, you know, first or, you know, I'm trying to think like a pioneering entity in many aspects. And like, I think in some ways they've succeeded. I mean, I think in the smart glasses, for example, you know, Arena, I think that they've had, you know, pretty good success and being there. But at the same time, yeah, I think the metaverse just was either behind the times or ahead of the times. I'm not quite sure which.

2:54And I think you're right, though. I think with the emphasis in terms of, let's say, VR going away from, you know, these spaces, and I forgot the other term for them, like, you know, like virtual spaces in, in a more kind of like, almost third party, like, you know, avatar based, you know, style to more like, kind of like more heads up, virtual, more augmented, like more in the augmented reality kind of first person space. I think it's just, they took a swing, a big one. And maybe you can say that, well, you, you thought that it might not have, you know, amounted to anything, you know, back in 2021, but I mean, that's what they do, right.

3:31They, they take swings and this one missed quite a bit. I don't know. Like, I mean, it obviously had a place in our, in our digital life at some point. I mean, what's that? What was that one? The really famous one. Second life back in the day. Yeah. It's stuck along for a long time. And I don't know. Is that still around? Is Second Life still around? It could be. I mean. Yeah. I mean, not to go off on a tangent. Oh, no, no. But no, I think the site's still up. Official site. Second life. Virtual worlds. Virtual reality. OK, so it's still around. I mean, that just goes to show like Second Life at one point was, like you said the uh the illuminated star of like oh wow this could be where things are headed and now we're like is it still around it's weird because i feel like there's so many product of course no it's not but it's it's it's it's basically the concept right is where you spend and it's so weird because i feel like there's so many online like virtual online communities whether that's through gaming like large online communities or multi massively multiplayer games or or even i think that even like there's other more game centric virtual communities where you spend significant time not necessarily playing a game but socializing or doing these like micro economic you know interactions every day that is accessible but and so it doesn't seem too far off to have generalized that idea to hey people in your daily life especially we we live such remote increasingly socially cut off for various economic and post-pandemic reasons it did it doesn't seem so crazy.

4:58I feel like, yeah, oh, ha ha ha. They didn't have legs at first is like an easy joke to make or point out the many things that might not have worked. But I don't think it was like a crazy idea because these things exist in niches. Yeah, totally. I mean, you know, you could look at Google and Google Glass and make the same kind of like, oh, that didn't work. Oh, that was such a stupid move for Google. But here we are like 10 to 12 years later and the Glasses form factor is coming back in, I think, a big way. And I think we're kind of on the cusp of that becoming a bigger deal in 2026. And so sometimes you do have to take the swing.

5:32And I think the unfortunate thing here, though, is that Meta, I mean, they were so convinced that they changed their company name. Yeah. It's, you know, sure, Meta, you know, has the inherent similarity to Metaverse. And if I remember correctly, that was part of the rationale for changing that. Meta can also mean a lot of other things, you know, so it's not so, you know, it's not like they changed their company name to virtual reality. And then if VR never takes off, they're like, oh boy, we shouldn't have done that. Meta is obscure enough that it can really form a whole lot of different meanings depending on how they go.

6:08But yeah, you got to take the swing and sometimes it's going to hit. I personally, I think that this is one of those cases where it's definitely before its time. It's kind of like the Google Glass thing. You know, Glass was ahead of its time. We're seeing the fruits of that labor now and that research and now the form factor, the hardware, a lot of other factors have kind of come together societally. You know, things have come together to where it's a little more accepted. It's a little easier to use and not quite so alien on your face sort of thing. Maybe we're there too when it comes to this idea of a metaverse.

6:44Maybe this is something that seemed like now was a good enough time, seemed like the technology was good enough, the interest was there. And then we had, of course, the pandemic, which really is timed around when they made this change. So there was a lot of shifting understanding of what people really wanted and what the marketplace for work and everything would be. You know, we were very warped at that point. And then, need I remind you, like a year later, ChatGPT launched and right, We just had the three-year birthday of ChatGPT. That shifted the conversation entirely into, well, holy moly, maybe it's AI.

7:23Maybe that's the thing. And that has proven to be the case so far. That is a really excellent point. And maybe that, and that's a very common story, right? Where an idea has just, the technology just does not support that idea in like the successful version of it. And so I think the glasses thing is actually 100%. Because I mean, how many years did the poor Google Glass supporters spend being called, you know, that derogatory name? Yeah, or being judged about. But now it's much more mainstream. You have like super mainstream, like so much mainstream investment. And we're getting on the cusp, I think, of it being a little more of an affordable everyday consumer product.

8:00So, yeah, I think you're right. And maybe there is something about the current generation of XR, AR, that as it develops might be, oh, the more cost effective, the more technologically appropriate stage upon which the metaverse or something like the metaverse, which, as I remember, I think the metaverse was actually a term in and of itself before. I feel like metaverse is also a general term for like virtual spaces, but that being aside, maybe you're right in that it will come full circle and maybe this current generation of AI bots, you know, generative AI content, like all that kind of stuff, maybe that will feed back in and it will create a stage for something like the metaverse, like, like truly massive virtual spaces, hopefully better than ready player one or something like that.

8:45But, but for that to come back around. I don't think that goes anywhere. I think as technology progresses, as AI, you know, has the, I think the AI as a technology and this idea of a metaverse, which by the way, was coined in 1992 based on Neil Stevenson's Snow Crash. That's the birth of metaverse to my knowledge. But I think those two things together and the like are kind of made for each other when you really talk about like what the metaverse could be and dynamic worlds and everything possibly created, you know, in real time by AI. Like the systems that we have right now, the technology that we have right now can't quite support what that could be.

9:27You know, hardware is also still a little too big and a little too awkward. And you got to be a certain type of technology fan to be okay with what it is right now. So there's a lot of development to happen. I don't think the quote dream of what a metaverse is goes away because meta reduced cuts, you know, 30 % cost investment in the groups that develop it. I think meta was just early. And we'll see if this, you know, this is all still very early. This is like, this is not meta has announced. This is internal discussions happening. So we still have to wait and see what that actually results in.

10:04But before we just kind of round this out, I will say Wall Street, if you care about that sort of thing, shares jumped 5.7 % after markets opened following this news. So it, you know, it seems that investors like, yeah, seriously, move on. At least for a short period of time, you know, one could interpret that as such. Well, we're still at the point where we are not generated by AI, but we are DTNS and we are made possible by you, the listener. So let's take time to thank Ken Hayes, Philip Shane, Paul Boyer and Sky Luke. Yeah. Thank you, guys. All right. There's more we need to know today. We got a lot to get to.

10:44Let's get to the briefs. All right. Some big news. Alan Dye, Apple Interface Design Chief, is leaving the company after a decade of shaping the look and feel of everything inside the Apple Watch, the iPhone X, and the most recent OS redesigns. He is headed to Meta, where he will lead a new design studio that owns hardware, software, and AI integration for consumer devices, reporting to CTO Andrew Bosworth starting December 31st. So his major focus will be revamping Meta's consumer devices with AI features, including wearables like smart glasses and headsets. He also has a deep mandate to weave AI deeply into its major consumer touchpoints.

11:24So Apple is replacing Di with longtime Apple leader Steve LeMay, who has worked on every major Apple interface since 1999 and helped shape the look of iOS, macOS, watchOS, and visionOS. LeMay is taking over leadership of the user interface design team, which puts him in charge of how future Apple operating systems, apps, and new device categories will look and feel. Huge job. Yeah, I will fully admit, as I said the other day, I completely slaughtered John John Andrea's name. So I am not like an Apple hardware, like leadership, know it all. So my perspective on this is maybe a little bit less than, you know, the Mark Gurman's and of course the Tom Merritt's out there who follow this stuff intensely.

12:11What can I say? I'm an Android guy. I focus a lot more of my attention on that stuff. But I will say from the outside looking in, you know, it continues to be the story. We're seeing it time and time again. Apple in the midst of some real serious turnover when it comes to its senior leadership. I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. Sometimes this is just how it works. Right. And sometimes you need a fresh perspective. They've tried, you know, certain things like like we talked about a couple of days ago with, you know, the Siri and Apple intelligence kind of failures being at least a component of John John Andrea's retirement.

12:44So there's some impacts there. It's not like Apple hasn't made mistakes or doesn't have a need to change these things. But boy, are we in the middle of it. Former hardware chief Dan Riccio, COO Jeff Williams. I mean, there's a whole list of leadership that has shifted into new roles or retired or whatever. And it could be a really good thing for Apple. You know, I think it could put Apple into a strong position to kind of reimagine certain aspects of how it's doing business. And in the long run, that could be a good move. Yeah, I think that's really fair. And I suppose like if you look at it a certain way, one of the bigger, let's call it, things you can make in technologies to stagnate and not innovate.

13:24And so, you know, that like, I guess, unfortunately, from individuals' perspectives, but maybe like overall, it is a good thing to try to bring a different perspective. and at the same time, a perspective that seems rooted, like for example, in this particular case, in someone who has been around for a long time. So having that historical perspective and also experience, but like with a directive to whatever it is that Apple is seeking to do, moving in a direction or just enhance what they're currently doing, it kind of makes sense. Indeed. Well, we're not done talking about Apple. Apple's 2025 App Store Awards are out and there's a lot of AI to wade through, as you might expect.

14:07The winning app of the year was Teemo. That's an AI-driven planner app that turns tasks into visual timelines. There's Detail for iPad. That's an app that auto-edits your video with the use of AI. Also got the top nod for that device category. Strava took the top spot on Apple Watch. It converts workout data into AI-driven insights, among many other things, but that's a key component of what it does. Other categories like cultural impact, AI is featured heavily there. Storygraph uses machine learning for reading recommendations. Be My Eyes, which I've heard a lot about, applies AI to visual assistance for blind users.

14:47To all of this, I say I'm not at all surprised. Everyone and their dog are looking at ways to utilize AI because it is the now thing to do into their apps, into their products. You know, like I said, even dogs are doing it. I'm sure there's a dog out there that's vibe coding AI right now. Oh, man, that would make me worried for my job, but we'll see. I'm still got it for now. All right. Well, the OnePlus 15, which had its U.S. launch delayed by three weeks due to challenges related to the U.S. government shutdown and an inability to get FCC clearance in time, is now open for pre-orders. However, the store page does specify that shipping will take an additional 12 days.

15:30Better watch out for your Christmas shopping. The new smartphone starts at$899.99 for 12 gigabytes of RAM, 256 gigabytes of storage, and$999.99 for 16 gigabytes of RAM and 512 gigabytes of storage configuration. So buying now will also get you the choice of the 43 millimeter OnePlus Watch 3 or the Buds 3 Pro earbuds thrown in for free. Although, of course, supply is limited on those freebies. So this delay does push the 15 up against OnePlus's next round of hardware, which includes the lower cost OnePlus 15R and the Padgo 2, which will get a full reveal on December 17th. Yeah, what do we think here?

16:12I mean, it's a nice phone. I've played around with it. I haven't done my official full-length review on this yet, but it is really nice. I love the OS, like the OS. I'm a real big fan of their take on Android and how they integrate AI into the phone. It has the little AI button on it and everything. It now being available in the US. I mean, it's such a bummer when you've got like a big moment to like make a splash and like, all right, and here it is. And it's launching globally. Oh, except for the government shutdown that really delayed the efficacy of the FCC to clear this device. And a month later, you got to recapture that energy.

16:50but that's a good phone. I don't know. Are you interested in it all? I'm definitely interested. I think OnePlus is definitely a very compelling competitor in the Android switch, especially in the US since it's a phone that we can actually get here that isn't a Pixel phone or a Samsung phone. It is too bad though because I think the timing, unfortunately, and OnePlus phones have been on the upswing for like what, the last three, four years or something. They've been doing fantastic. I do wonder whether this will have, especially that additional delay, whether that will have impact on holiday shopping and things like that.

17:23But maybe that's why you get those freebies. Just be like, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, bye. Bye. I'm going to get some free stuff. Please, please. Yeah. And just for the record, the freebies were there before. They were kind of like there from the beginning. So they're not offered as a kind of make good for the delay, but they are notable. You know, if you think you're going to get one of these, probably now is the time because, Because I mean, I wear the 43 millimeter. Is that the larger one or the smaller one? I think that's the larger one. The earlier, the first released one. That's my guess is what this is.

17:56Actually, I didn't look it up before Showtime. But anyways, I wear the OnePlus Watch 3. Have since it launched. I wear it every day. I absolutely love it. So if you're going to get one of these things, think about the watch because it's pretty fantastic. It's like four day battery. Like I charge it every four days. It's awesome. That's awesome. So there you go. And finally, we have a bunch of quick headlines to get to. just so you know what kind of what's going on. You can understand some of the news that comes in the future. Well, thanks to Perfect Face for Radio, that is the best screen name, in the subreddit for flagging this one, Micron is killing its crucial consumer line of SSDs and RAM kits as it aims to redirect its higher price supply to AI and enterprise consumers where business is booming.

18:38Sorry, consumer level PC builders. I think consumer, yeah, I think your everyday PC builders are like, are you serious? And then there's definitely some reaction that's like, you're going to be eating crow in a couple of years where you cut it off. And then you realize, well, we shouldn't have done that. Time will tell. AI pioneer Jan LeCun, who, by the way, is leaving Meta to build a world model startup. We talked about that on the show before, told the AI Pulse event in Paris that Meta is not actually an investor in his new company and argued that truly new AI work should move beyond Silicon Valley's generative model obsession to independent efforts like his.

19:20So he, you know, initially when he announced his departure, he did mention that he would be partnering in some way with Meta. I think this means that maybe he's not, or if he's partnering, they're not an investor, they'll more be a customer. I'm not sure exactly what that means, but they're not investing in his company. Yeah, I think it's again, as an unabashed AI, current generative AI skeptic, I have really appreciated Lon LeCun bringing some like different perspectives. And obviously now he's putting his money and his career, let's say, where his, wait, putting that stuff where his mouth is.

19:54And you got to talk to Jan LeCun on AI Insight, right? At some point. Yeah, we did like six or seven months ago. Yeah, I'm a huge Jan LeCun fan. I really do. I really do connect with his idea about the limitations of LLMs and the potential of building really strong world models. So I'm super curious to see where it goes from here. All right. Well, speaking of LLMs, OpenAI is training its LLMs to produce confessional output that walks through its task implementation process and outs itself when it lies or cheats after executing those tasks. Okay. It doesn't prevent itself from doing those things.

20:29It just may tell you that it did it. Clarity and transparency. That's good. Better than nothing. Google launched Workspace Studio, first teased at Google I-O 2024. So a little time coming. A no-code tool for building Gemini Power BI agents to automate workflows across Gmail, Drive, and third-party apps, just to name a few, Asana, Jira, MailChimp, and Salesforce. Well, TikTok is launching a GPS-powered nearby feed in select European countries to amplify local, real-world discovery and small business visibility through hyper-local recommendations. Kind of surprised they didn't know that already, but okay.

21:09Proton announced Sheets, an end-to-end encrypted spreadsheet inside Proton Drive that obviously targets, because Proton is all about privacy, targets privacy-conscious users looking for a secure alternative to Google Sheets and Excel. Proton Drive users can access that new feature for free. And Google Fi is finally rolling out two new highly requested features, RCS support and web calling capabilities from the web interface. One caveat, though, web calls work in a separate web portal to RCS, meaning users will have to juggle tabs to do both. Something's better than nothing. That's true. All right.

21:46Well, those are the essentials for today. Let's dive a little deeper. OpenTable isn't just booking your table anymore. It's profiling your habits. Andy Beach explains what these new AI-assisted tags really reveal. Andy, welcome back. Hey, good to see you, Tom. So now my restaurant is spying on me. What's this about? Yeah, it turns out any time you use an application, you're generating data. And they're now beginning to sift through all of that data they have, which even in this article gets referred to as data exhaust, which is a term I have used and that I've heard quite a bit. Anytime I go interact with some sort of application, I've got a footprint of what I do.

22:33And OpenTable is now taking advantage of that to profile you and feed information to both the restaurant about you and to help better book the type of experience that you want that will fit your needs better. People are not going to like this. I can just feel that already. But it is a little different than sharing third-party data with advertisers who want to come at you. So theoretically, what's happening is it's first party data with OpenTable and then OpenTable already shares your first party data with restaurants in order to book your reservation. They're just continuing that a little farther.

23:09And the idea is this isn't advertising. It's supposed to make your experience better. How does this play out? Yeah. So, for example, they'll have information about your preferred beverages that you like. Are you a wine drinker versus cocktails? meals uh are you are do you not drink at all is there something else what is your spending level what's the speed of dining are you are you a lingerer at the table are you quick in and quick out are you likely to do a last minute cancellation so all of these are things that they have information about and they are now trying to present that in such a way to the restaurant that they can better set expectations so that you have a better experience and the restaurant hopefully has a better experience out of it as well.

23:49Yeah. I mean, it's basically turning everyone into a regular after only going, maybe even the first time you go because OpenTable knows about your habits from other restaurants. Right. Exactly. It can pull in other information from other bookings and then correlate it back to the restaurants that are participating. And currently not all restaurants are participating with this, but they would be able to effectively let them know how to best manage your experience dining with them. Yeah. And granted, restaurants are going to want to keep you happy. So they will tend to use this responsibly. But I can already hear skeptics saying, yeah, but they're also going to try to upsell me.

24:29Are they going to change prices based on what OpenTable tells them I'm willing to pay? Are different people going to pay different things? There could be some concerns about how this gets used as well. Yeah, I think those are the follow-ons. Like, obviously, there's nothing that's there today. This is just sort of an example of a AI being used as an intermediary on a service so that the staff doesn't necessarily have to remember you. But the platform informs them every time you're coming as to what what to expect and what to do. So that can easily be weaponized, sometimes accidentally, sometimes on purpose.

25:06And we will have to see whether there is open table, how far they allow a restaurant to go with that. In other words, can they change the experience based on the data that they are informing you? That may become part of their terms of services that simply isn't allowed if it starts to detract from people using the platform. So it will be, you know, apparent on them to sort of govern this to a certain degree. But it is an early, interesting look at it. And part of the reason I brought it, even though this is more about sort of retail consumer dining, is I think this is exactly how the personalization of media continues to enhance over time as well.

25:47as we think about a larger platform, whether it's a Netflix or a Warner Brothers or someone else with this vast catalog and this vast understanding of how I consume content, maybe from multiple platforms when you're merging together multiple platforms and how they can take advantage of that to surface relevant information to me in a package that I want at a time that I want it, whether I'm on my phone or in front of my TV or with my family or somebody else. Yeah, that data exhaust. Exactly. Just like real exhaust. It can go everywhere if you don't contain it. So that's fascinating. And going to bring us to a different argument over personal data and probably affect how regulations like California's or the GDPR in Europe are applied.

26:39And we may come to need more tweaking to them where people want personal data to be used for certain things that would have been prohibited under a system built for advertising, but is useful in a system that is customizing and catering to your preferences. The thing about this data exhaust is we've never probably really thought about it before. We care about our banking details and our other information. We think of that as important. But this is just the random artifacts that get created from our digital life and our digital experience. And now we may have to think about how we govern that in addition to other things.

27:19Well, Andy, thanks for explaining this to us. I think it is a really interesting early insight into something that is going to be discussed more and more as it gets used more and more. Hopefully, the next time I book through OpenTable, I get greeted by name. The minute I walk through the door and my favorite drink is on the table. I can't wait. We'll find out next year, I guess. Andy, if folks want to follow more of what you do, where should they go? So I've been writing about media technology and the convergence of AI with it over at enginesofchange.ai. That's my sub stack. Fantastic. Thanks, man.

27:54Thanks, Tom. I love the terminology of data exhaust. I hadn't heard that one before. So, I don't know, it's so visceral in my mind. Yeah, 100%. and yeah, I don't know, 2025. I guess I'm not surprised anymore. Maybe that's the problem is to be so numb from data exhaust. Yeah, yeah. All right. Well, we're in December. Holidays are right around the corner. Do you need a gift for a loved one? Well, guess what? We got mugs, pint glasses, which I have one of now. I'm very excited. Posters, shirts, hoodies, and more with the DTNest logo. Len Peralta holiday art and more. head to dailytechnishow.com slash store to check them out.

28:40And we end every episode. That's right, of DTNS with some shared perspectives. And today, Mohan is following up on yesterday's discussion around AI-generated headlines. Mohan writes, The AI slop headlines Google is testing in Google Discover remind me of the clickbait headlines you find at the end of website articles, like the ones from ZergNet, zergnet.com. I do believe there was another one. I think it was called Outbrain or something like that. Yeah. Oh boy. Outbrain. Yeah. So, yeah. So obviously I, you know, I was not here yesterday for the conversation. Were you on yesterday's episode or was that with may have been Jen.

29:21So, and so I kind of, I didn't have this one on my radar and I looked into it and I can absolutely see why it reminds you of that, because from what I can tell, an AI does this. Like sometimes if you use AI for like creator-y stuff, like I need help with a title for this YouTube video or whatever. It often just goes right to the clickbait thing, right? And the good example that I can give you here is the Engadget article that writes about this, points out that on Ars Technica, there's an article, Valve's Steam machine looks like a console, but don't expect it to be priced like one. And then the AI rewrites it to steam machine price revealed, you know, like the lowest common denominator, like it's reductionist, you know, in its worst form.

30:08So yeah, I'm not surprised that it reminds you of Outbrain because that's kind of what all that stuff looked like too. Is that, I mean, I, again, not an AI expert, to be honest, is that just a function of it, you know, honestly being trained on this stuff? And so this is what was like slop in, slop out. I mean, slop in to begin with and slop out. Who the heck knows? I mean, I'm sure it could be trained better or instructed better or this is exactly as designed, right? Like, because I think like it or not, a lot of people will click on a headline that says steam machine price revealed, you know, versus the longer, more nuanced kind of headline, right?

30:46At the end of the day, I think a lot of people just respond to headlines like that. What, you know, and then there are the rest of us that are like, oh my God, that feels like clickbait, you know? So yeah, I still fall for it for what it's worth, like on a weekly basis. Can't help it. All right. What are you thinking about? Are you thinking about it with your outbrain, your inbrain? Doesn't matter if you have some insight into a story, want you to share it with us. Feedback at dailytechnewsshow.com. Yeah, big thanks to Andy Beach. Thanks to Mohan for contributing to today's show. And thank you for being along for Daily Tech News Show.

31:17You can keep us in business by becoming a patron at patreon.com slash DTNS. See you tomorrow.

31:26The DTNS family of podcasts, helping each other understand. Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this program.