Nobel Prize for Quantum Tunneling Breakthrough - DTNS 5120

0:04This is the Daily Tech News for Tuesday, October 7th, 2025. We tell you what you need to know. Follow up on the context of those stories and help each other understand. And today, Dara Whelan tells us about a small fitness sensor kit that replaces a bunch of big, large, expensive diagnostic equipment. And quantum physicists got the Nobel Prize for their work and will try to get a prize for explaining it. Yeah, when we say help each other understand, what it actually means is, Tom, help me understand this. I'll do my best. I'm Jason Howell. I'm Tom Merritt. Let's start with what you need to know with a big story.

0:41I just need to get over it. Quantum physics are complicated. And every time a story comes up around quantum physics and quantum computers, I'm always like, I still don't understand. It's okay, Jason. It's okay. The Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences awarded the Nobel Prize for Physics to John Clark. Mitchell Deverett? I hope I'm getting your name right. Michelle Deverett. Michelle. There we go. He's false. Wow, I got it really wrong. I got every aspect of that name wrong. And John Martinez, or martinis, depending on if you want to be celebratory about it. He may have had some martinis to celebrate.

1:14Possibly so. For their experiments that demonstrated quantum tunneling in an experimental electrical circuit. Now, like I said, some of this is Greek to me. Tom, what does it mean? It's very simple, Jason. No one knows and anyone who claims to is lying including no uh i don't really know this either uh but i i spent enough time on it to understand what it does and then i'll leave it to the nobel prize winners to try to explain uh why uh here's what i do know quantum tunneling uh is a phenomenon where a subatomic particle like an electron uh can appear on the other side of a solid barrier uh so you'd think, oh, there's no way the electron can get past there.

2:00But through quantum physics, it appears on the other side somehow. That's the part where I'm like, get a quantum physicist to try to explain how that happens or why. But that's the phenomenon that they're taking advantage of in their work. The demonstration they did that won this prize used superconducting wires. So those are wires that have no resistance, right? Superconductors are great because there's no impedance on the electricity, keeps things nice and fast. They took superconducting wires and interrupted it with an insulator. And of course, an insulator normally keeps particles like electrons and electricity from moving across.

2:40The interrupted wire is called a Josephson junction. I'm just saying that so if you hear that phrase, you're like, oh, that's the wire with the insulator in the middle. The thing about it is when things are warm enough, electrons can get through that insulator if it's really hot because they're excited and they can push their way through. So you cool it to make sure that they can't do it. And then as you cool it, fewer electrons are able to get through the insulator. The scientists cooled the wire and tracked how many electrons were making it through with the idea that if it leveled out instead of continuing to decline, that was evidence the quantum tunneling was happening, right?

3:20Like enough electrons are just jumping that gap through quantum tunneling that the cooling isn't having an effect anymore. So far, so good? So far, so good. Is it okay that I envision these quantum things with faces and emotions and stuff? If it helps, absolutely. It kind of feels like a story you're telling me right now. Right, right. There's electrons that are determined, right? And they can make it through the insulation. But if it gets too cold, then they shiver and they can't make it through, except for the ones who know quantum tunneling and they just transport over somehow and i don't know how um so that is what they found they did that experiment and said ah quantum tunneling is real we made it happen uh and from there is a bunch of other people doing other work including these guys uh to take advantage of it uh so we'll just jump past that to what is it good for uh it's good for quantum computers.

4:16Let's not even try to go into explaining quantum computers, but the short version is always they have qubits, which means it's not just a one or a zero. It's a one, a zero, or a superposition of both. That lets quantum computers be really good at certain things like breaking cryptography. These are also used in superconducting quantum interference devices, which you don't have to remember that because the acronym is SQUIDS. Love it. that's used in squids. And squids can measure small variations in a magnetic field. So that could be used to measure the Earth's magnetic field and that can be used to find minerals because where there's a change in the magnetic field, it might indicate that there is iron or copper or something like that below the surface of the Earth so you don't have to dig to find out where they are.

5:00It's also used in some brain scanning to find the source of epileptic seizures. And the one that we all use is in flash memory. It makes flash memory more efficient because it can jump the transistor gate. And in fact, it's used in a lot of transistors. The list is pretty long. But flash memory is probably the most common one. Thank you for breaking that down. It helps me to know that I'm not the only one that finds this incredibly confusing. But when I look at people who, you know, they won the Nobel Prize. So congratulations on that. that these are some wicked intelligent people to understand this stuff, to not just like, oh, yeah, I think I can conceptualize it, but to understand it so much that they're pushing the development of this thing that is still very unknown, very uncertain.

5:53They're still trying to figure a lot of this out. They're still trying to figure out how to make this stable. I know stability is something that comes up a lot, or I guess it's coherence or whatever. That's an aspect of this that I don't quite understand. Is that a problem that these scientists are working to solve? Because I know that's a really important piece of this puzzle is making it stable. Yeah. What's interesting to me about this entire subject is that we still don't really know how electricity works. We don't know why. We know what it does, and we've worked with it enough to know, oh, if we do this, this happens.

6:27But we can't necessarily explain the fundamentals of it that well. And this is very similar because we're talking about subatomic particles. We're talking about electrons, right? And electrons are what make up electricity. So it's very similar where I think when I joke that nobody knows, I think a lot of people are like, yeah, we don't really know what's happening with quantum tunneling, but we know the math that explains it and makes it easy to predict. And that's what these guys did. These guys were even saying like, I don't think what we did was all that big of a deal, honestly. We just chilled down some wires to see if quantum tunneling actually happened.

7:04And we're like, oh, look, it does. But you knew to do that. Yeah, exactly. And they knew the math that they had to do. They knew how to construct it properly and what place you had to chill it to and all of that. They're being humble when they say that. But I look at that and I'm like, well, if the scientist himself is like, I don't know. So I think they're not trying to hide a deeper truth that we could never understand. It's more like, well, if you learned the math, you could do this too. We just thought of it first. Also, learning the math is really half and hard. So that's not something I'm going to do either.

7:39No, not something I'm going to do either. But the other thing that it reminds me of in this AI-saturated world is the common conversation that has come up around companies developing these AI systems. And we know what to feed into it to get it to do certain things, but we don't actually know exactly how it's doing the things underneath. There is no code that we can look at to say, this is why it made this decision versus that. So there's still a little ambiguity there in how the AI models really work. We have a high confidence that they're going to do this versus that. Kind of sounds like it's the same thing here with quantum computing.

8:22It's like they know the result. With quantum mechanics, certainly. Yeah, exactly, with quantum mechanics. And what they won the prize for isn't quantum computing. It's something that is used in quantum computing, the quantum tunneling. It's actually very prosaic. It says, oh, we figured out a way to make sure we know quantum tunneling happens, which means we can make more efficient transistors. We can make it so that those electrons can just jump the gap without having to have as much push to make them do it. We don't have to heat them as much to make them do it. And that's why you have flash memory.

8:56That's why you have power efficient flash memory and squids and all these other things. It's like, ah, we discovered it happens. We discovered the conditions under which it's happened. And then other people, like I said, including these guys, have built on that to make it work at room temperature so you don't have to chill it to make it happen. But the fact that we knew it could happen meant you could harness it and use it in transistor gates and all that sort of things to make stuff happen without having to use as much power and use as much infrastructure, for lack of a better word, to make it work.

9:31Fascinating stuff. I hope each one of them had a martini. unless they don't drink, then that's fine. They don't have to have a martini. You could have a virgin martini, I'm sure. Sure, sure. Well, DTNS is made possible not just by martinis, but by you, the listener, which provide the money with which we could buy a martini, virgin or otherwise. Thank you to Pat, Mike Cortez, Erwin Sturr, and our brand new patrons. No uncertainty principle about these guys. We are happy to have Leandro and Pranay. Welcome. Welcome.

10:07there's so much more we need to know today so let's get to the briefs yes now let's go into a place that jason knows more about than i do uh yesterday was the start of the open ai dev days uh and during the keynote ceo sam altman announced a few new products for chat gpt users and developers uh open ai launched an sdk that turns chat gpt sort of into an app front-end platform You can make your app work inside of ChatGPT. It's built on the popular open source model context protocol or MCP. And that means developers can create full featured apps that work directly within ChatGPT conversations. Those integrations will happen entirely in the chat environment with interactive UI elements, real-time context sharing, overlaid chat functionality.

10:56Launch partners include Spotify, Canva, Zillow, Expedia, and Booking.com with Uber, DoorDash, Peloton, and Target coming soon. The demos showed like, I need houses nearby me and a Zillow map comes up. And then you can chat to be like, oh, show me that one on that street kind of situation. I haven't been able to make that happen for me yet. So I think it's rolling out slowly, but it looks pretty cool. Yeah, it is really cool. I mean, the more I've used these environments, the more things come up, the more I encounter situations where it's like, oh, yeah. It's almost like it pretends like it has access in these ways.

11:36But then when you're like, okay, do that, then it's like, oh, well, actually, I don't have a connection to do it. Well, you have to do that. That's a you problem. And here's a list. Here's a list of all the things that you do step by step in order to do it. And I mean, that's nice absent another alternative. But having this kind of baked-in interactivity and something that MCP, Model Context Protocol, allows for, that just takes it to a whole other level. That really – we're going to probably in the next handful of years see a lot of integrations into the operating system of the computers that we're using because of things like MCP and this interconnected web of capability between these chatbots, these AI chatbots, and the apps that we're already using.

12:19It's going to get real interesting, very powerful. I think a lot of the hype around AGI or super intelligence or whatever they decide to call it, depending on who you're talking to, distracts from the fact that these things are good enough that if you filter them well and refine them well, you can just talk to your computer and tell it what you want and it'll do it. And that's what we're seeing here is like, I want to be able to just say like, hey, can you make a Spotify playlist? You know my taste. Throw in a few Twice songs and some BTS, Blackpink, and Eliserafim. And it's like, oh, yeah, got it.

12:54Here you go. I made it for you in Spotify. It's great. I love that idea. And you might not be reliant then, because Spotify might have its own AI to do these certain things, but you might spend so much time inside of ChatGPT. ChatGPT knows and understands, in air quotes, knows and understands you so well because you've been using it for two years and it has all that history to draw on, that it might do just a much better job of creating that playlist. And that's just one example. Yeah, yeah. And it's going to become – it's trying to become a super app. Oh, for sure. I use chat and I will do whatever it is you want me to do in apps or on the web.

13:32I mean, we're going to get to the story later here in a second about what Google's having to do with third-party app stores. App stores might just not be that relevant in a couple of years. I think you're absolutely right. That's not that far off, I don't think. Well, sticking with OpenAI for a second, OpenAI introduced a few other things. They introduced Agent Kit. That's a simplified GUI, a graphic user interface, for creating specialized chatbots with a drag-and-drop kind of building block-style interface that they call Chat Kit. The platform includes performance measurement tools for developers, testing workflows, of course.

14:08There's pre-built widgets, different informational sources, so pretty powerful stuff inside that kit. OpenAI also announced updates for its Codex coding agent, so now it has Slack integration. also improved SDK support, and then a bunch of new support available via API for things like Sora 2, GPT-5 Pro, a smaller and cheaper version of its real-time audio interface, all available via API, because this is a developer conference after all. And then OpenAI also teased an agentic commerce protocol for instant checkout with monetization details yet to be announced. They didn't go deep in that. That reminded me of last month's announcement by Google of the agent payments protocol.

14:55One of the things that we've seen with these agentic systems, this chat interface can do all of these things for you, but yet we are hesitant, or I know I'm hesitant, of handing over the keys entirely because certain things aren't really worked out. This payments protocol, having some sort of a system that is built around protecting me as a user and not just suddenly buying a$20 ,000 car because the chat interface decided to go off the rails. And I think they're looking at this and realizing there's a lot of power potential to harness here if they can create these protocols around these systems to do these things that people are a little hesitant to do now.

15:37So it's kind of setting the building blocks for that. Yeah, there is going to be a lot of discussion of trust around this sort of thing, right? Like, do I trust logging into Shopify or even Spotify or any of the stuff we were talking about earlier with ChatGPT than handling that transaction? And OpenAI is going to have to do a lot to explain what it has access to. And are you logging in directly and it just knows you're logged in and it doesn't keep any of that information or does it? There's going to be a lot of discussion around that sort of thing. But yeah, being able to just, again, going into the agentic commerce protocol and the GUI building thing, like being able to just say like, I thought like, oh, what if we had a little bot on DTNS where it could ask it questions about anything we've ever talked about on any of the shows, right?

16:32Love that. Like, could I build that with this agent kit? That would be cool. And then we just slap it on the website. It'd be great. Super neat. Yeah, really, really interesting stuff coming from OpenAI. God, I feel like every day it's a new OpenAI announcement. So apologies to those of you who are like, oh my God, OpenAI again. But it really is a pretty major company doing major things right now. It certainly has a lot of resources and a lot of attention. So that's why we keep talking about it, I guess. Well, let's talk about Google then. We mentioned it very briefly. The US Supreme Court - That'll make you feel better.

17:05Yeah, totally. The U.S. Supreme Court has denied Google's request for a partial stay of Judge James Donato's order that requires significant changes to its Google Play Store as part of last year's Epic Games antitrust lawsuit. Court-ordered changes are now required to go into effect on October 22nd, 2025. So that is just a couple of weeks away. That includes allowing developers to use external payment links, informing users about alternative payment methods, and setting their own prices. Now, Google must also stop sharing revenue in exchange for Google Play exclusivity or pre-installation. And then a July 2026 deadline is also set for Google to open its App Store catalog to competitors, enabling third-party app stores inside of the Play Store.

17:56And yes, to all of this, Google is planning a full Supreme Court appeal to take place by October 27th. But time is ticking now. It's like, all right, Google, you got to get off the pot. It's interesting that they denied the injunction. that usually means the court believes you have an uphill battle to win your case. It's a bad sign. It doesn't mean Google can't win its case at the Supreme Court. It just means the Supreme Court says, we don't see you winning this. So we don't think we should. And courts usually are pretty lenient. Like, well, if there's a chance you're going to win, we don't want to make you do a lot of work you have to undo.

18:35So that is interesting. And you shouldn't look at this and think, ah, well, it's all done because Google is appealing to the Supreme Court. And there's – we're saying there's a chance. They could still win at the Supreme Court and have to undo part of it. My guess is the Supreme Court says we think some of this is going to have to stay and maybe the majority of it, even if we strike down parts of it. And so it's better to just get you started building all of it because you won't be implementing all of it until next July anyway. No, but quite a bit of it, it seems like, you know, in the next couple of weeks.

19:10And I have to imagine, you know, teams in Google have been building as the, you know, because there is has been no certainty around this stuff. They had better have systems in place by the time the deadline happens. I am really excited to get all the emails saying, I'm so upset about Qualcomm acquiring Arduino. Because anytime a big company acquires a small company, especially an open source company, we get those emails. But Qualcomm has agreed to acquire Arduino. They haven't acquired it yet. They didn't even give a date for the closing, which could mean it's going to happen pretty fast, honestly.

19:46But the Italian open source electronics platform celebrated by hobbyists and educators is going to be part of Qualcomm. Now, Qualcomm promises to keep Arduino's brand intact, keep it independent, not change its mission, but hopefully just give it extra leverage by giving it wider access to Qualcomm's tech portfolio. and uh the joke i was going to make is uh arduino announced the unoq single board computer and qualcomm liked it so much they bought the company because that was the other part of the announcement it's like we're buying arduino and arduino is releasing the unoq uh which is of course powered by qualcomm's dragon wing qrb 2210 chip uh it runs linux debian the computer supports lightweight AI models is pre-installed with App Lab.

20:34So it's an all-in-one development environment for managing AI models on the device. You can, of course, do Python scripts and Arduino sketches. You know, Q is available for pre-order today for$44. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I agree. I was kind of pouring through comments around the different stories that I read on this and wow, people are are not happy you know never never big company by smaller company people mad yeah it's a yeah tautology doesn't matter whether it's good or a bad thing people mad i'm super i'm far more familiar with the raspberry pi side of things yeah i am arduino is this about qualcomm really wanting to kind of have more of an entry point into the hobbyist community probably uh i i think it's it's that and also uh wanting to make sure that they have a place to vend those kinds of chips you know it's an expansion of their market um and we'll see if they can be good stewards of arduino um it's i know everyone's like they won't uh i i don't think qualcomm is is that much of a unitary evil or anything uh they're not known for buying things and shutting things down So this will be a new thing for them, though.

21:52And it could change Qualcomm as much as Qualcomm changes Arduino. Indeed. Indeed. Well, California signed a bill into law requiring streaming video services not to, quote, transmit the audio of commercial advertisers or advertisements, sorry, louder than the video content the advertisements accompany, end quote. U.S. federal rules actually made in 2010 capped ad volume on cable and broadcast TV, something that had to be done, but did not cover streaming. So this bill kind of closes that loophole, at least here in the state of California where I live, where you live as well, Tom. Content makers initially opposed the law.

22:34They were fearing legal action over the fixes that they would adopt in order to address this. But then the bill, there was an add to the bill to ultimately rework it to include protections against private lawsuits. So that kind of moved them over the line. This move may indeed set a precedent for other states, because as we know, there's a lot of entertainment that begins here in the state of California. This could have precedent for other states. I mean, essentially what this did was hurry this along. Streaming companies have been working on trying to balance this. It is a more difficult thing to do for a streaming company than for a broadcast outlet because the broadcast outlets run the ads themselves.

23:17Streaming companies, just by the nature of the internet, pull in an ad from somewhere else. They don't have a person putting a tape into a machine, right? Or a limiter box at the end of the signal chain that just squashes everything into the right spot. Exactly. And so it doesn't mean there aren't things you can do, but they are a little more complicated. and the streaming media companies probably didn't want to spend the money to make that a high priority, right? They wanted to fix it though, because people are complaining this law is going to speed it along. It may mean that you don't need another law because you've got a huge market in California.

23:52And if this speeds up everybody to make this not be as much of a problem, then the rest of the world benefits because this is the kind of thing where it would be more work to limit it to California that it would be to just make it apply to everybody. Yeah, everybody would be happy about that. Nintendo released a four-minute animated short called Close to You on the Nintendo app today or the Nintendo Today app with no context around what it is, whether it's a teaser, whether it's something bigger. And that has everybody speculating why they put it there in the first place. If you haven't watched it, the short is about a baby playing with a magical pacifier does not have any instantly recognizable characters or clues beyond that.

24:38Mom comes in and is excited that the baby is making the pacifier magic. That's about all you get. Some people speculate this might be a tease to a Super Mario Galaxy movie featuring a young Princess Rosalina. Others are thinking it might be a tease for a Pikmin film, which has been rumored but not officially announced. Jason, you got a guess? I have no guesses whatsoever. I was like, when I first read that people were guessing Super Mario Galaxy, I'm like, what are you talking about? Like, this has no clues. I didn't even know that Rosalina, this is how out, like not informed I am. Like, Rosalina, who's Rosalina?

25:16So, yeah, I have no guesses whatsoever. I think they're going to start competing with Pixar and they're just making a movie. No, it's probably not that. But I haven't heard anybody guess that, so I'm sticking my claim on that one in case it's true. Could be. I could see it. You never know. know. The information is reporting that Tesla's plan to produce 10 ,000 Optimus robots for internal use by the end of 2025 has been scaled back by, quote, several thousand, several thousand of 10 ,000. So that's quite a bit. Complications related to technical challenges with the hands, the robotic hands are the cause that forced Tesla to reduce its outlook to this earlier this summer is when they actually made that decision.

25:59We're just now hearing about it. And Google told The Verge that it will soon launch a new smart display. Well, actually, what Google Home's Anish Katakaran said was that they would, quote, continue to invest in that category while referring to smart displays. They also said a lot about Gemini. So people are thinking they might rebrand the Google Home Hub with integrated Gemini AI. The Nest Hub was last refreshed in 2021. And Amazon recently introduced those two new Echo Show smart displays that will have the new improved Amazon voice assistant so there's plenty to compete against katakaran says it is quote definitely committed to smart displays and that they'll have news to share there soon see thank you gemini gemini you just got to get the last word in there always you go uh those are the essentials for today so let's dive a little deeper yeah i've been sharing conversations last few times i've been on the show about my trip to Dublin, Ireland, which unfortunately feels like the distant past at this point.

27:02I want to go back. It was only a couple of weeks ago. There I met with startups who were really pushing the edge of sports tech innovation. That's what I focused on while I was there anyways. Today, we wrap up the series of interviews that I had with my chat with Output Sports co-founder Dara Whelan. We talk about how his company is turning elite sports science into something you can actually fit in your pocket. It's a very powerful and flexible performance tracking sensor that they're developing. I'm in a random room at the Fitzwilliam Hotel in Dublin, Ireland, and continuing my tour of really interesting wearable tech founded and created here in Ireland.

27:41And I'm here with Dara Whelan, who is the co-founder of Output Sports. Really nice to meet you. Thank you for having me on. Absolutely. I'm really enjoying this trip through Irish tech innovation. Very wearable driven so far. Wearables and data of which what you're going to show off does a whole lot of both. So why don't we start with what your wearable actually is? It's very unique and cool. So we're a small wearable sensor that's capable of measuring lots of different performance metrics in an off-field performance environment. So what we're really interested in collecting data is predominantly in a weight room or a rehab environment.

28:20That's where most of our data is collected from. Okay, so people are wearing this, you know, out on the rugby field or anything like that. This is really meant to be in the gym with a very specific goal in mind, or does it just collect a number of different data points, and then you can kind of achieve your goal on the back end? No, the beauty of the tech at the moment is the diversity of measurements. So we allow testing and tracking in lots of different performance metrics. So things such as balance, bar speed, jump height, mobility, etc. And ultimately, a coach will collect that data, define what they want their athletes to be good at, and then they can use our technology to collect across that disparate data set and then start to understand their athlete better, where their strengths are, where their weaknesses are, and then start to train them in order to succeed most optimally on the field.

29:14So while we don't do anything on the field, the data that the athletes collect using this data usually informs their conditioning to allow them to perform on the field. Okay. So a little bit earlier, we got a demo at your facility and then I was the brave soul who raised my hand when you said, would someone like to come out and put them on your shoe? Very grateful for the sake. Do the jump. It was a very awkward jump because I I had to follow some rules, and then I realized I'm not a very good jumper. So I might be tall, but I don't jump very well. So me and you both. Yeah, which I think was an indication, at least one of the things that I really like about this, is if you can see it, if you're just listening, it's a tiny little rectangular kind of piece of technology, but it fits into a fastener that allows you to really attach this anywhere.

29:59So when we're talking about wearable, it's not just going to go on your wrist. If you go on a barbell, I think you showed off. It could go on your foot. can talk about that a little bit the flexibility yeah so the sensor is about the size of a match box and that's uh we're done so that in order that anyone can test no matter where they are they can literally pop it into their kit bag at the moment because most of our clients are um sporting organizations it will be the strength coach who would have multiples of these sensors and are able to bring them wherever they need to do the testing do one person wear more than one no no wouldn't need to yeah a lot of what so we are a university spin out um and so we spun out of university college dublin the insight center for data analytics in there and one of the things we really focused on during our research was actually bringing down the number of sensors that you need to get accurate and reliable data that's kind of where our research was and the reason why we did that was because obviously we felt one sensor would make it easier in order to transport and easier for people to use basically from day to day So we did a lot of research collecting data with multiple sensors on multiple body locations, and then narrowing it down, defining where the best body location was in order to pick up that data that we were capturing.

31:10At the moment, that's no problem for us because it's coaches who set up the systems, the athletes come in, the sensors are ready to go where they need to go. But what we're really interested in doing is defining one optimum place for that sensor, or even more interestingly using off-the-shelf wearable sensors that can power our algorithms to get that data as well. So the actual component parts within our sensing technology, it's accelerometers and gyroscopes. They're not, they're basically in... Yeah, you find it always in our phones. Exactly, yeah, attach a phone to your phone. That's exactly.

31:42And actually, obviously, watches now, smart devices, which measure lots of different metrics, will tend to have one form of accelerometer and gyroscope in it, where our expertise as a company is actually taking, it's not in the hardware itself, it's actually taking the sensor signals and converting them into meaningful metrics for end users. So while at the moment we do use our own sensor because that gives us the ability to get that accurate level, which we can imagine be required at the top level of sports, what we're really interested in understanding is the use of off-the-shelf wearable sensors that have accelerometers and gyroscopes in them that compare our algorithms as well.

32:22Okay. So what we're talking about is obviously, A, we've got the hardware that you've created that has this technology. One thing we haven't talked about is, of course, the dashboard or the software that that feeds into, analytics around that. And then is what you're alluding to kind of like a future where do you take something like a smartwatch and the data that It can be gleaned from a smartwatch and integrate that into your analytics software. We'll actually do interesting things. Well, actually, probably the way it'll actually work is that we will operate within the currently existing platforms that people analyze their collective.

33:00Oh, I see. So like an Apple Health app or like a Garmin ecosystem or something like that. So the way our system currently operates is we have a hardware, the sensor that communicates to an app that you download on either a phone or a tablet. The sensor communicates to that via Bluetooth, collects the data and then provides that information to the athlete or the coach. And then we have our own portal where that data then syncs into and can be used for longitudinal tracking, report generation, program building, etc. But ultimately, it's just the data going to where it needs to go. And currently, our customers will use our Output Hub in order to visualize that data, create reports, et cetera, because they're used to working in that environment.

33:42But ultimately, the data can, we have an open AMS. We already operate and work with, or say API, we already operate where our data is capable of APIing to AMSs, a lot of A's, which are athlete management systems. Yes, basically like Kitman Labs, like Arco that you would have seen next door, which collate that data, present visualizations to coaches, etc. But that ultimately is just a platform to visualize the data. we understand the fitness is a wide variety of different tools what we specialize in is strength power movement so if we can provide that strength power movement to other amalgamation data amalgamation tools and we're happy with that because that's where we provide our value in so ultimately it can absolutely where we'd love to see it go is that you log into your health app around all your strength and conditioning work what's been done in the gym ports into that and feeds into your overall health and fitness with things like sleep, recovery, heart rate, et cetera, et cetera.

34:45How are the analytics treated as far as understanding, you know, we're living at a time when AI is the, I'm putting it in air quotes, the solution to everything, right? Everybody's looking for a way to squish it in. It occurs to me though, this is a really great potential avenue for an AI system that understands how to take all of these disparate points of data and make it actionable or make it understandable, especially when you're talking about a consumer versus like a very well kind of well-trained coach that knows how to interpret that inherently or by education, I suppose. Absolutely. Yes.

35:23Where our product is at the moment is we work with coaches who have the innate knowledge because they've been to college, they've been trained. Exactly. And what tests would you do to understand an athlete in that particular sport or position? What's a good score, what's a bad score, how to get better at that and how that relates on field performance. So at the moment, we provide a very useful and seamless tool to collect that data far, far easier than it would have been traditionally. But what we don't have in built into the system currently is that what you're alluding to there, context. So that ability to understand, well, why would I do this test?

36:00What's a good score in this test? What's a bad score in this test? why is it important that I have a good score in this test and then how do I get better at it and that ultimately is the same problem that anybody's looking to solve whether it be one of the NFL athletes playing this weekend in Croke Park or whether it be literally an individual who wants to cycle up a hill faster than their friend ultimately they're going to be I feel like they will achieve that goal more safely and efficiently with objective data points along that journey as well as being able to show improvements to their mates when they're down the pub.

36:34Yeah, yeah, exactly. Which we're going to hit the pub here in a few minutes. So we're going to get there. Before we round things out, I want to kind of ask you a little bit about kind of the technology experience, developing technology in a country like Ireland. Obviously, this is a big reason why I'm here is to kind of showcase and shine a light on tech innovation here in the country. And you've built a very successful platform. You're working with some incredible, you've got some amazing partners. the biggest partners, let's say. So tell me a little bit about that experience. What's that been like?

37:07It's been fantastic. We actually started as part of two PhDs. So my own background was in physiotherapy or athletic training in the US. I was really frustrated by the subjectivity involved in return to play testing. So I really wanted an objective manner of doing that in far more accessible and expensive manner. That led me to doing the PhD. And I was really lucky that the same day I started my PhD, one of my co-founders, Dr. Martin O 'Reilly, he started his PhD and his expertise was actually in processing sensor signals and also had an innate understanding of sports science as well. So we were able to collaborate during that research phase and then bring on our third co-founder, Julian Eberle, who's an excellent developer, a really great problem solver, to basically launch the company.

37:54So we've got to be at this for now, probably about 10 years or so, but the company has been in existence for five years now at this stage. But we've loved that journey because what the three of us are super, super passionate about is making elite sports science simple and scalable. We were really keen on that the level of performance analysis that happens in those NFL teams will become accessible to anyone with an exercise goal. And because of that, we basically kept going through all of this, starting your own business, going through all the the joys that that entails, because we're super, super passionate about making sure that people are doing the right thing at the right time to achieve their exercise goals.

38:33Yeah, I love the goal being accessibility of not only the data and the collection of the data, but the understanding of the data and putting that into use. Exactly. That's what we're really interested in in the next step of the company. Yeah, it's a great mission. Zara, thank you so much for talking with us about Output Sports and this little thing, which I don't even think that we showed on video, this little pouch that it can fit into so that it can attach to places like your shoe and all that. So it makes it really flexible. Thank you for taking us a dime and sharing your experience with us.

39:04And enjoy the rest of the open as well. Becky, let's go get a pint now. Agreed. All right. Cheers. Thank you. Hold on, Jason. You can't go get a pint again yet. You're still doing this show. Too late. Yep. Good stuff. And if you want to see it in action, we will have a video of that as well. video version of that at youtube.com slash daily tech news show if you'd like to join in the conversation in our discord you can do that as well link to your patreon account and of course you can become a patron at patreon.com slash dtns we end every episode of dtns by hearing from you and today kevin just has nice things to say yeah he said i really enjoyed the monthly recap episode that Jen Cutter and I did at the end of September.

39:54It was nice to look back and reflect on the month we just had. I liked pulling in AI to get its opinion. Another segment that might be interesting is a biggest non-tech news story, and maybe non-political, just to see the big story that didn't make your lists. Maybe talk about why it didn't fit your rundown. Maybe give some opinions on it. Always love the show. Kevin in Milwaukee. Thank you, Kevin. Good suggestions. Thank you, Kevin. What are you thinking about if you have insight into a story or suggestions for maybe things that we could do on a future show? Share it with us. Feedback at DailyTechNewsShow.com.

40:27Thanks to Dara Whelan. Thanks to Kevin for contributing to today's show. And thank you for being along for Daily Tech News Show. You can keep us in business by becoming a patron. Just go to Patreon.com slash DTNS. We'll see you tomorrow.

40:46The DTNS family of podcasts. Helping each other understand. Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this program.