Producing Podcast Problems - DTNS 5307 Experiment Week

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2:17Anthony Lemos: Hey, everybody. Tom Merritt here. It is Experiment Week on DTNS. This is a yearly tradition where we take the show down during one of the slower times of the year for tech news, and we hand over the feed to folks to try out new podcast ideas. You're going to get to hear the very first episode of what could go on to become the next Tech John or Behind the Data. We're also running a special promotion for Experiment Week this year. If you're not already a DTNS patron and you'd like to give a little value back for the value you get from us, use the code EXPERIMENT and you'll get 26 % off your first pledge, monthly or yearly.

2:56Anthony Lemos: That's 26 % off for 2026. Just use the code EXPERIMENT at patreon.com slash DTNS. Now, on to today's experiment.

3:14Hammond Chamberlain: Hello and welcome to Experiment Week on DTNS, Daily Tech News Show. This is a week where we get to try new things out and see what sticks, what doesn't stick, and kind of maybe give you a little behind the scenes on how we develop shows and the thought process behind them. I'm Amos. I'm here, but not by myself, because, well, nobody likes that. Nobody likes to hear just Amos, Amos. I'm here with Hammond Chamberlain. How are you doing, man? Good. How are you? Thanks for bringing me into this. I'm flattered. Well, this was, I mean, I don't know any other way to do this other than with you because you're, we talk about this stuff all the time.

3:50Hammond Chamberlain: I was like, well, why don't we just like talk about it and share it with people instead of just with each other. For those that don't know, if you didn't read the title or if we have a bad title, because I don't think we have an actual title for this. that's like an ongoing theme for experiment week is you you record it and then you come up with the title what are we doing here hammond what what why are we recording this and sending it out to the

4:14Anthony Lemos: folks okay so we we've been i've been involved with a show called america's next top podcaster which was a crash course in podcasting uh where we took podcasting and wrapped it in kind of reality show and it really was kind of a peek behind the scenes and then when you and i were talking at we were kind of thinking about a similar kind of thing, but because we both work on DTNS and daily music headlines, and we also have our own pasts of producing and our own approaches, but they're similar enough that we don't fight. That's the nice part. We have similar philosophies, but we have our own approaches and our own experiences.

4:51Anthony Lemos: And then we came up with an idea where we were going to kind of let people in because we get questions a lot on how we do, what we do, what problems, all kinds of things, because the DTNS audience is curious and they're not just there passively listening, they're an active group. And so we kind of figured by doing this, we're letting people in and we're definitely going to be asking for questions because, I mean, a lot of the things we do, I don't know if we think about, we just do them. And then when someone says, so how did you do that? We actually have to stop and kind of go step by step because Because a lot of the stuff that we do now is just part of muscle memory or part of, yeah, I put together DTNS and I'm off to lunch.

5:36Hammond Chamberlain: Yeah. One of the things that you'll find if you talk to us at any period, any length of time about producing DTNS specifically, but other podcasts as well, is that we really, I don't want to say we love it when things go wrong. But when there's a small problem that needs to be fixed, it's kind of exciting. like it's it's like oh look uh so-and-so's video cut out today so i'm going to go back through and and find the source video and paste that over the video so the audience doesn't even know that the video has ever had a problem in the first place and then nobody emails and says hey what about this little glitch and you're like yeah yeah i did that last last week during dts as we record this

6:18Anthony Lemos: uh when had a flub and i had to cover it and so i started putting in pictures of the websites over the top of the artist stories to hide that edit because it was easier than trying to blend it yeah and so the next day tom missed a sound cue and was staring at the camera waiting for me to do it but i couldn't because i wasn't here and i put a picture of a bucket hat over tom to to uh because he just finished the ad about bucket hats and so i put a picture of the bucket hat over it to hide that edit so sometimes advancing is brought about by mistakes

7:00Hammond Chamberlain: um so what we're going to do is we're basically going to take you through just some of the problems of the basis of the process of producing a daily news show which is different than like just a daily show because you kind of got to keep it current. And well, that brings about its own problems. And then you also want to, you have kind of a self-imposed deadline on when we want to release things. My personal deadline is, so it has always been 4 p.m. Eastern time is when I want to have whatever I'm working daily stuff out. I want to have it out by 4 p.m. Eastern time. So it's available for Eastern folks as they're on their drive home.

7:37Hammond Chamberlain: that's not like a hard set rule but that's just something that's always been cooking in the back of my brain

7:43Anthony Lemos: I always shoot for about an hour after at the latest

7:48Hammond Chamberlain: yeah I don't like disappointing myself that often

7:54Anthony Lemos: I've only missed that hour window probably two or three times in the year and a half I've been doing this

8:00Hammond Chamberlain: well before I redid my entire network I would have missed that hour window a lot because I was constantly having network problems and internet hiccups. So we're going to go through some of the things we do on a daily basis. We've got some input from Rich Straffolino, who has worked on DTS in the past and currently works on cybersecurity headlines. And he gave us his biggest problem that he runs into on a regular basis, which we also share, but we don't necessarily see it every day because we're the production side, not the story side. Yeah, not the story side. content content side i don't know that's writers one talent no not talent yeah

8:43Hammond Chamberlain: um and then we're just going to go go through the process and and talk about some things we've we've been encountered and what we how we deal with it and and uh then open it up for questions from you guys and see what you what more you would want to know about it sounds great so what did Rich bring up? Okay, so first of all, it's daily news. We have daily tech headlines, we got DTNS, those are two big daily shows. All the daily tech headline shows are handled by, they're written, hosted, and produced by whoever's doing it that day. Those are all single person jobs. DTNS comes in, and there's overlap between daily tech headlines in DTNS, but then you have DTNS trying not to overlap on its own previous episodes.

9:33Hammond Chamberlain: And Rich brought up the point that that is their biggest problem over on cybersecurity headlines and with his daily shows that he's doing. Because you have people that are writing each week or each day, someone else is writing it and recording it and producing it and sending it out there to make sure that the same story doesn't get covered twice unless there's a development, in which case the development needs to be taken care of, you know, being brought up, but not overly explained to where the people that have already heard the first part, you know, taking care of that balance. And we also have that problem, especially with like daily music headlines, because we have, that's probably more of a one for one for us, but there's really no good way to track stories as far as what you've covered and what you haven't covered, because the same story might be covered on 15 or 20 different websites.

10:31Hammond Chamberlain: And if you are only looking for, if you're looking for the Rolling Stone article, but you know, the previous person covered it in Gadget, then how are you going to know those, those magazines are very different. The websites are very different. They show up differently in feeds at different times. And that's always just a content issue that's always pervasive.

10:54Anthony Lemos: Well, and that's a problem, too, because let's say Billboard covers something an hour after it happens. And then Loudwire picks it up on Monday, the following Monday. And it still says an hour ago, but it's a story that was covered on Friday's episode. Sometimes that's hard to track because it still looks like brand new news, even though it wasn't. because it's new to them.

11:17Hammond Chamberlain: Yep. And sometimes the later story will actually have fewer details than the initial story. So, you know, and how do you combat that? I don't know a good way to do it unless you really want to get in the weeds and track subject matter. But then it's just a problem that's going to be continuous that you just have to be diligent about.

11:38Anthony Lemos: Well, for my part, I will look on Friday and just make sure, oh, okay, this is what they covered. I'm not duplicating anything. And for the most part, it's fine. I think I've missed a few, but I do try to look at Friday to make sure I'm not repeating specifically over the weekend. Which, I mean, that sounds awesome until sometimes you have a story that was covered a week and a half ago.

12:03Hammond Chamberlain: Oh, absolutely. But one detail has changed, so everybody's covering it again, so it looks new. And the person recording today wasn't the person recording two weeks ago when it was originally reported, so it looks completely new to them. And then, yeah, it's a constant struggle. And I don't know if there's really a good fix other than just diligence.

12:23Anthony Lemos: Yeah. Well, so when you're working with Tom, you work with both Tom and Jason. Do they communicate about stories that have already been covered? when they're like when jason picks up a story and does tom say oh we we hit that on monday or we hit that on whatever yes uh tom is kind of the main anchor with that because he reads

12:42Hammond Chamberlain: like every day even if he's not on the show he's reading the notes and and doing you know he'll drop stories into the lineup and and things like that he'll he just does that every day it's just that's how he starts his day yeah um so he's really good about doing that and he'll he'll sometimes come in and be like well that one's already been covered or we covered this aspect that we need to focus on this. And sometimes it's not even on him, though. Sometimes someone else will bring something up like, hey, you know, we already talked about this, but we can bring this up here. So it's really community effort by the writers primarily.

13:15Hammond Chamberlain: But then as the producers, we kind of have that final ear. So, and I've never had to do it on DTNS, but I have had to do it on Daily Music Headlines where I just, I had to nix the story because it had already been covered and nothing new was added with what we were producing.

13:33Anthony Lemos: Yeah, I think you did that once where something had happened and Brian and I had done it and then you went back through because I couldn't get it posted for whatever reason. And you listened and you're like, oh, well, that one was done, so I went ahead and mixed it.

13:46Hammond Chamberlain: Yeah, and that's just a, man, if our audience has a good idea or has just something we haven't thought of, like if you have an idea on how to control that aspect of it, please let us know. So feedback at dailytechnewshow.com. That's, I mean, that's an eternal problem. And we like to think that we're good at it, but then every once in a while we'll get an email, hey, why are you talking about this again? So it's definitely something, I mean, we're not the only ones, which makes me feel good.

14:17Anthony Lemos: Well, and, you know, I don't know, sometimes I will help Brian with writing for music headlines, but that's just because I know what Brian's life is like, because he's also doing a bunch of other shows. He's got freelance work. So, you know, sometimes I'm doing it just to help speed things along to make sure we get out on time. Yeah.

14:38Hammond Chamberlain: One of the, one of the problems with podcasters is we like podcasting. So we, we tend to podcast more when the opportunity arises.

14:47Anthony Lemos: Yeah, it's absolutely true because the gear is already paid for it. It's the shows next.

14:52Hammond Chamberlain: Yeah. It's just the time. And if you have the energy, the time just falls away. So, I mean, in the preparation for this recording we're doing right now, you and I came up with three different podcast ideas that we want to do that we just are never going to have time for. So, like, it's just something that happens constantly.

15:12Anthony Lemos: With, as far as your history goes, how, because getting into daily show shape does take some time. You have to have established templates. You have to establish routines. How long did it take you to get into daily show shape?

15:28Hammond Chamberlain: Oh, I was lucky in that when we first started going in the current form of the show was after CES last year. And we had the daily show that we were producing audio only. And then we had the video show that we're doing DTS live. and we were separating the two. I was already used to going through a lot of the motions with Daily Technocial Live, DTS Live. So for me, it was actually a relief to cut down to just the audio and let Joe handle the video aspect of the live show. And it was really just a matter of following Tom's template because he started doing it during DTS. So when I picked up the mantle and started going from there, everything was pretty much already kind of set.

16:23Hammond Chamberlain: So it was just a matter of making sure that I was on top of things and getting the product out on time and having a good standard set for it. And then we brought you and Victor in to start doing it. And how was that experience for you? Because you stepped in and things were already like, I don't want to say fully in shape, but we were like 95 % there. We brought you guys in.

16:45Anthony Lemos: So the only reason my transition was a little... I worried because I was coming from a place of who, who am I? Why am I getting this job? And then he was kind of getting into it. And then once I did, you guys had to just do two or three like test shows. And I remember I sent mine in and you and Tom gave feedback on it. And you were like, yeah, he got everything I would have gotten. I'm like, okay, I'm happy. and as soon as i heard that i'm like okay i can do that but because i have a a lot of templates set up i like to work from templates and project files uh i set one up for dtns when it was just audio and i i just rolled with it and you know made changes like we once talked about making sure everything was kind of unified and uh samey as it's as far as output goes like luffs and file type and mp3 bit rate and all that kind of stuff yeah and we i we lined that up and that's what we that was what we did but because i was working so much before i got to dtns it was it wasn't a hassle for me to just to say okay i'm recording for an hour and i'm going to turn it around in

18:03Hammond Chamberlain: the next hour right yeah and again a lot of that was already i i don't even want to say that i helped build it because a lot of it was there for, you know, Roger built it and Joe built it. So when I stepped into it and to doing it on a daily basis, it was kind of already there. I was just the most experienced as to Tom's expectations. So when it came time to bring you and Victor on board, I think I got a lot more credit than I should have gotten on that whole transition and the whole bringing in because I was literally just regurgitating things that had been And between Tom and Roger and Joe and myself, we'd already fleshed a lot of that out just over time.

18:45Well, actually, but that's the nice thing is, is when you bring in somebody new to a system that works, it's easier to plug the person in.

18:53Anthony Lemos: And if the person fits the system, it's easy. And then if they don't fit, it's easy to see they don't fit. And you find another person. It's like, you know, coaches who bring in a quarterback for a scheme because they drafted for that particular scheme. and if they brought in a quarterback that doesn't work that scheme then they're in trouble you wanted joe montana you got mike vick yeah exactly yeah really yeah that's exactly it you you want you want joe uh dan marino who'll stand back and throw the ball yeah and you ended up getting steve young who wants to take concussions every time he runs

19:27Hammond Chamberlain: i like how both of our analogies had 49ers in it yeah but you had the you had the the

19:32Anthony Lemos: you had the stand back and drop guy and i had the one that got concussions

19:36Hammond Chamberlain: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, what issues did we have going into that? I would say my first issue with doing the daily was literally just making sure that the timing was right. making sure I had the files and I could go from from raw file to finished product in a short period of time which is all a matter of being comfortable with my doll which is audition that's what I've been using for over over a decade now so it's what I was comfortable with and I built my templates there a lot of it was really made easier because Tom likes to do live tape so we're doing corrections We're not doing finessing. We're not changing the message or anything else.

20:20Hammond Chamberlain: We're just making sure that if there's a rehash or someone just flubs something completely, we trim that part of it out. But even some of those we leave in, like the time that Tom went three, two, and then nothing happened because he had the volume turned down on his mixer.

20:37Anthony Lemos: Right. And then he says, OK, once again, three, two, and then the music played. I left that in because it was funny.

20:44Hammond Chamberlain: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and that's kind of the personality of the show. You want to make sure that we maintain a show attitude where it's reliable and it's trustworthy. But also there's a personality to it that we want to let flow in once in a while. Daily Music Headlines, we like to, I don't want to say force it, but we're always looking for an opportunity to throw a little tag at the end after the music. That's like a little game for you and I as producers. So, well, he just said this. I'm taking this out of context, putting it at the end and just letting people figure out what it was.

21:20Anthony Lemos: There was one that was strictly an inside baseball when Brian said, well, I had to give you at least one yellow. Which is an inside. I mean, that's a joke for you.

21:33Hammond Chamberlain: Yeah. Yeah. So for a long time, I've used basically red, yellow, green when we do the show notes in the spreadsheet. And if it's recorded the first time clean and there's no edits that are needed, it's green. If it gets restarted from scratch, but then it's a clean cut from there, then it's yellow. If there's a cut in the middle of the read, it's red. And then there's several other colors to indicate. If it's, you know, if it's done after, if you finish the show, then find an error, then you got to go back and rerecord the section. That's a different color. But usually those aren't used very much.

22:11Hammond Chamberlain: And that I was using that and it kind of started leaving it in there because I kept forgetting to delete it. And then you and Brian picked up on it and started using it too. And I think it's funny that even to this day, when I click the little dropdown for the colors, I'm just using the standard colors at the bottom. but every time Brian does it he uses like one of the random colors from the tops it's like always a different shade of yellow different shade of green but that's one of those things that's that's a system that I set up uh because it's easy for me it's just a quick reminder hey and it's not a oh this is green I can skip it I don't have to listen re-listen to this it's a hey this is red I need to make sure I pay special attention to this or this is yellow I know the first take is not the one we went with.

22:54Anthony Lemos: Yeah.

22:55Hammond Chamberlain: But developing little systems like that will help you produce a consistent product. And especially if Brian records it, because he and I are in such different time codes and he records early for his time zone. My time zone is later and I'm ready to edit later in the day anyway. So there's like a five hour gap between when he's recording versus when I'm assembling it all and editing it and putting it out. So for him to go through and mark those, I know, okay, well, this one I've actually got to pay attention to because I'm listening to it for the first time and I've got to listen to the entire thing and go along with the read and make sure that things are said right or spelled right, or not spelled right, but said right and inferred the right way.

23:40Whereas if I didn't have those codes, I would have to be going through and listening to it

23:46Hammond Chamberlain: as I'm editing it, as opposed to just, okay, well, I know the first one's yellow. I don't need to take that one. I don't need to take that one. Okay, this is the chunk I need to listen to. And it cuts down on my time that I spend doing the edits. And I know if there's something red in there, then, okay, I really need to pay attention to this and find a good place to take the first read and the second part of the read and blend those together to where the audience never hears the difference. Yeah. Yeah.

24:10Anthony Lemos: And it's funny because we both work with Tom, or we both work with Brian, and we both work work with Eileen and the styles and read styles very different. So we, we've had to adjust because we want a uniform product, but we also want to make it uniform between both hosts and between both producers. So there's a lot of give and take and a lot of, uh, there's a, a, a, a bandwidth we work within. We don't have a, it's a narrow, it's not a narrow road. It's a pretty hit somewhere, you know, 10 % left or right or center pretty much every day.

24:48Hammond Chamberlain: Yeah. And that goes from everything from making sure that, like, I have a standard set and I call it the custom podcast vocal is my preset in audition. And if I drop that on Brian's audio, he does not like the way it kills the bass in his voice. But then if I don't drop that on Eileen's audio, then she doesn't like the way she sounds. and it's almost like i need to have two different eq settings for him i but but what it is i just i take out the pop the the uh the pop filter not the pop filter the the plosive the anti-plosives yep i take that out when i'm doing brian's and i leave that in for eileen and that tends to make them both happy but you know again the presets are just something i've built in over time that I know this is a good generic place to start.

25:39Yeah.

25:40Hammond Chamberlain: You know, um, and I'm so glad, I'm so glad I don't have to tune for Eileen's voice. She didn't have one of those higher pitched voices that really could microphones, by the way, I know I've said this tons of times, the microphones we're using were developed for men. They do not. I don't say they don't like, they're not tuned for women's voices. So if you have a woman with a higher pitched voice, the siblings especially will come through piercingly but overall you kind of have to play with the sound a little bit to make sure that their register of voice is in a good range

26:16Anthony Lemos: for the podcast listener yeah yeah i i use logic i've been using logic pretty much since day one and uh i have i have presets for all the different hosts i have one that's called better basic which is where i usually start and then i go from there um i've got different default settings in all my plugins for different people and for different uh situations so you know i i i produce for a wide like you provide you produce for a pretty narrow set of fairly production professional producers i go from everything from two guys sitting in their kitchen to people in recording studios so i have a wider variety of quality audio i get i used to do a lot more random

27:11Hammond Chamberlain: podcasting producing like the edits and things like that and i came to find out that most of my production that i was doing were for women because i started out working for jenny justison and a lot of what she was working on, a lot of the clientele she had were women doing podcasts for women. And gradually those podcasts either all faded because they were, you know, one of them just completed like, okay, we're done. We've said all we need to say. We might be back in a couple of years, but we're done. But most of them, eventually I found, either I found or they found a woman to take that because I didn't feel comfortable like I didn't feel comfortable massaging the narrative through my edits for a woman's podcast about women's issues I was comfortable talking about it but when it comes to when you're doing edits and you have to take out a chunk or you have to make a decision on how how much of this sentence can be left in because they want it really clean So sometimes words are muffled or there's overtalk or there's background noises and you just you can't get some of it to work and you have to actually cut out a little bit or a half a sentence or a part of it or a full sentence.

28:30Hammond Chamberlain: I didn't feel good changing what I was considering changing the message in any way, shape or form because I was not representative of who they were or who they were speaking to. so all of those podcasts either completed faded or were eventually passed on to female editors that could take it and go with the message and make sure that the message was staying true to form and true to what they wanted to come out

29:02Anthony Lemos: it's interesting you say that because I work on Women Kick Ass which is hosted by a stunt woman and then I produce for four other women. And basically the reason they got their show started was because I felt like podcasting was kind of a male-dominated place. And in 2024, I was motivated to get more women's voices out there. So I'm like, I'm not even sure if I need to get paid for any of these. I just want to make sure that we get more women's voices out. So I made sure I communicated their what they're you know with them what they wanted to make sure and how they wanted to be depicted and i send them edits before we publish for them to give notes on then i go back through if i need to but uh i i just for me i saw it as an opportunity to from where i was sitting to try to affect some sort of positive change to get more voices out yeah and and yeah that's a lot

30:04Hammond Chamberlain: of what i did in the beginning was just cleaning it up but they wanted they were working with me and they were wanting me to get more into the actual editing and the massaging of the message and i was like this if it was women doing a general podcast it's great but i was doing like the motherly podcast yeah i could see that that's a that's a that's a that's a tough

30:31Anthony Lemos: message to massage if you're not a mother.

30:33Hammond Chamberlain: Right. You know, and it's fine when it's just a straight at, you know, straight clean up job. You're going through and you're getting rid of the ums and uhs and making sure the background isn't distracting and that kind of thing. That's, that's great. But as soon as it comes time to edit content for whatever reason, they want you to trim something down. So you have to make the decision on, you know, it's too long. I got to do some cuts here or whatever else. I was just like, okay, that's, that's beyond my purview. so i know that doesn't necessarily apply to dtns but just well i was gonna say in general like that's you have to know where where your personal line is and where you know the integrity of

31:09Anthony Lemos: podcast sits well i was about to say that this brings up the fact that sometimes getting the

31:14Hammond Chamberlain: right producer for the right job really does matter and and that's one thing tom has kind

31:19Anthony Lemos: of done he's built a group of people around him that kind of are switchblade or swiss army knives of producing so they can do multiple things. And he does have a wide enough cadre of people, a corral of people that he could say, all right, we're going to do something with this point of view. I'm going to pull these two people in. I've got this point of view on, I'll bring these people in and I think they should produce. So he's built a corral of people that he can pull from to meet those needs. And there is something said that having the right team and the right voices be part of the show really does matter.

31:55Hammond Chamberlain: And I really think enthusiasm has a large part of it as well. I did a recording. If you say so. I did a recording this weekend with, with Nikki and when, and if you're listening to this, you might've already listened to that episode, but they were talking about science and they just working with them was such a pleasure because they're so enthusiastic. They love their topics. They love their subject matter. They love talking to each other. And it was just like, I was just sitting there going, yeah, it's recording, you know, and then doing the actual edit itself and pushing that out there was a matter of, it was really just a matter of cleaning up some of the the flow breaking ums and uhs and pauses.

32:51Hammond Chamberlain: There's just a few. I probably did maybe 10 or 15 tiny little edits during that 30 minute podcast, which is nothing, by the way. If you're not doing like five per minute, are you even really editing? Yeah.

33:04Anthony Lemos: Believe me, I've worked on half hours and 45 minutes where I'm putting in three to 500 edit points. Easy.

33:14Hammond Chamberlain: Yep. My worst, I did a 45 minute show. It started out as an hour and 15 minutes. I trimmed it down to 45 minutes and I had over 800 edit points in the 45 minutes. So that's, yeah, that one was awful. I no longer work for that individual.

33:35Anthony Lemos: There was an episode of a podcast that I still work on and they reused lavalier mics and they forgot to turn on their lavalier, the host. Forgot to turn on their lavalier. So basically I had a one-sided conversation with this really amazing guest. And then I had to have the host basically ADR their part in. And so then I had to slide in their stuff to make it feel like it was actually happening in real time. And that took me the better part of three days and over a thousand edit points. And then I had to affect both files individually and then together to make them feel like they're in the same room.

34:14Hammond Chamberlain: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and trying to build that background noise and the feel and the warmth and just making it, yeah, that's, I do not envy you for that one.

34:24Anthony Lemos: Well, luckily at the time I was working on ANTP, so I was able to put my money where my mouth is. And, you know, it worked okay. I was able to say, yeah, this is the kind of work you can end up doing.

34:37Hammond Chamberlain: Now, as far as DTS goes, what's been your biggest problem that you've run into? Like what's the most common thing that you see that you're like, Oh, here we go. I got to fix this.

34:46Anthony Lemos: So two things. One is still a thing. It's a mouth noises. It's a pet peeve of mine. I don't, I don't know what you're. And I, I understand that some of them are our personality. And I even think some of them are purposeful to convey thought and right. And, and, and, and, uh, personality, that kind of thing. but there are every now and then I feel like it, like in my head, I'm like, this is excessive. Got to get rid of at least three of these. So I, that's one of them. But the other part of it is now that we moved to video, uh, I was very anxious about moving to video. I, I had very little experience with it.

35:24Anthony Lemos: I had very little comfort with it. And I, I started a brand new video editing suite as we started moving to video because I've been trying to use final cut pro and it just, for whatever reason, wasn't making any sense to me. It just wasn't logical. Like it didn't work like logic. It didn't work like any other editing program I've ever dealt with. And so I moved to DaVinci. And so I was starting two things from scratch, working with video and working in DaVinci. And I was terrified that at some point you or Tom or Roger or somebody was going to go, Hammond, it's been a good run. We'll see you later.

36:06Hammond Chamberlain: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so I recently just switched from Premiere Pro to DaVinci Resolve. And I've got a couple little issues with Resolve that I still have that I haven't found workarounds for. But most of the things that I had issues with going from one to the other. First of all, did you know DaVinci Resolve actually has keyboard shortcut presets for other applications? Come on. That was game changing. completely. And that was just a matter of scrolling. And I've got one of them fixed. I'm used to, like, with Premiere Pro or Audition, if you point at, if you put your mouse pointer on the timeline and you scroll, it zooms in or out to the timeline.

36:53Hammond Chamberlain: But if you have it on the field, it scrolls the field up or down. Well, that's not the same in DaVinci Resolve.

37:01Anthony Lemos: So, you know what I have done to combat those kind of problems, like the muscle memory problems? I use my Torbox. so i have programmed i have a tour box i have programmed my tour box so that if i'm working in logic the cut select all delete all the things i do normally are a certain set of memory muscle memory keys now so when i moved to a dng i basically set the same thing up so i don't have to relearn anything it's just now assigned to the same muscle memory i already have

37:36Hammond Chamberlain: mm-hmm yep and that that's a hardware solution to a muscle memory problem and and i believe me

37:44Anthony Lemos: i before i decided okay i'm going to stick with this this is what i'm going to do i struggled because there's a whole lot of muscle memory that changes and once i got that i was like yeah this is great i i'm half my problems are solved now now it's just a matter of learning where to find the solutions to the minor problems I have to face.

38:30Anthony Lemos: and estimate trade in value. Advanced, intuitive, and deployed. That's how they sack. That's technology at Capital One. Hey, it's Paige from Giggly Squad, and I want to let you know that if you want the newest and hottest beauty products, you have to go to Sephora. I'm obsessed with the One Size Liquid Blotting Paper Spray. It's the first of its kind blotting spray that mattifies for up to eight hours. It's unreal. There's also the Summer Friday Shade Drops SPF 50, which basically lives in my bag at this point. Oh, and the Kayali Eden plush pear smells so good. It's sweet, warm, and addictive.

39:05Anthony Lemos: Like people literally stop me and ask what perfume I'm wearing, which you know I love. So if you want the makeup, skincare, hair, and fragrance products everyone's about to be obsessed with, shop only at Sephora. There's a reason millions of people start their day with Morning Brew Daily. Each morning we break down the biggest news in business from the latest tech headlines to why nobody can afford a house right now. all in a format that fits seamlessly into your day. You'll leave each episode of Morning Brew Daily smarter and ready to take on the world around you. I'm Toby Howell. And I'm Neil Freiman.

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40:45Yeah.

40:46Hammond Chamberlain: I would say my biggest problem that I run into on a regular basis is the...

40:56Hammond Chamberlain: certain people like to talk off mic more than I feel they should.

41:03Anthony Lemos: You mean off camera or off away from their mic?

41:05Hammond Chamberlain: Like away from their mic. Oh, yes. And it's a lot of times it's because they're animated and because they are enthusiastic about the story. Yeah. So you're trying to talk right now and you're just, you're off axis on your mic and it's not working. But so it's not like it's not something that I want anybody to fix. It's just one of those things that as a listener, I pay attention to because I want to make sure that my threshold is if if my hearing can't if I don't think I could hear it clearly in my car, then I'm not going to put it out there. I want to be able to that. That's that's the minimum for me.

41:43Hammond Chamberlain: So if someone's talking off microphone just a little bit and then they come back, well, what was that sentence? You know, if you're in your car, you're not going to go back to listen to that and turn the volume up. So you just missed some information. So I'm always trying to correct for that. And I have, you know, Auphonic will automatically adjust for some of that, but not all of it, especially if it comes out as whisper. Auphonic's like, oh, no, they were supposed to be whispering there. I'm going to leave that alone. So I got to go in afterwards and kind of, you know, bring it up a little bit or treat it some way.

42:14Hammond Chamberlain: That's the thing that I'm always really conscious about and running into on a consider, you know, on a constant basis.

42:21Anthony Lemos: So I use a plugin called Playlist Writer from Waves on my master bus to kind of combat that. But if it's just one channel, one thing, they also have a plugin called Vocal Writer and you can set the range and it'll work automatically within that range.

42:39Hammond Chamberlain: Yeah, but even with automatic tools, you still got to. Oh, yeah, you still have to make sure it's working the way it should. But sometimes it's like, oh, this works 99 % of the time. And this one time, it is not listenable.

42:52Anthony Lemos: Oh, it was like Tom's mouth noise episode that went out that one time where, for whatever reason, it sounded like he was eating a burrito with the microphone next to his mouth.

43:05Hammond Chamberlain: Like the microphone was in the tortilla with the burrito. Yeah, it was actually kind of gross. And that's another thing that we constantly have to fight is, I don't want to say complacency, but the comfort level. I can go through and finish an episode of DTNS posting it and being completely done in 20 minutes. From the time we end recording, if the downloads aren't delayed, I can get it out there in 20 minutes. should i no yeah but sometimes does just autopilot happen and then you're done in 20 minutes because it's just the same rote exercises every day yes and are those the days when somebody will email in and say hey i couldn't hear sarah at this point or i you know uh the music was too loud for tom or whatever yes that's always the case every time someone calls in for something something silly like that that I should have caught, it's because I was in autopilot mode and it just, I got, I produced it really quickly, but I'll be, I'll be darned if there wasn't some kind of mistake on there.

44:16Hammond Chamberlain: And every time that happens, I know I was autopiloting that day.

44:21Anthony Lemos: Yep. And then there are also the other frustrating days where you've put in a ton of work to fix a problem that no one's going to know about because something went sideways and you were like, I'm going to fix this. I'm going to take the time to fix it. And you fix it. 95, 96 % and you for somehow that 1 % just falls out of the range of what you fixed or what you could fix and then that's the thing people talk about. And then you feel really bad because like if I'd spent another hour I probably could have gotten that. But that goes back to our time, that goes back to the burning fuse of getting a new show out in a newsworthy period of time.

44:59Hammond Chamberlain: Right. Because that's the

45:01Anthony Lemos: scales we have to deal with. If you give me an unlimited time, I can fix almost everything. But if you tell me this needs to be an hour, hour and a half after we're done recording, then I've got to really – then you've got to start weighing out what can I realistically fix in that time and what do I have to fix and then what can I fix?

45:22Hammond Chamberlain: Yeah, you have to start running in your priority list. There's listenability. Well, first of all, there's functionality. Will the audio actually go out to people? then will they be able to hear it and listen to it? Then does it make sense in the order in which it's put out there? Or should things have been rearranged to make sure that the story is cohesive and it's comprehensive and it's understandable? And then you've got to start worrying about, well, what else is affecting the listening experience? Is it the audio going in? Is it the file format? Is it the music? Things like that. then you can start getting it.

46:01Hammond Chamberlain: Once you have those covered and you actually have what I would consider a podcast, then it's like, okay, well, what do I actually need to fix with the content itself, with the presentation, these little things that people are gonna notice? I really, I love when I spend an extra 45 minutes making sure something goes out really clean and then someone writes in and they're like, oh, but you missed something, something this other part that I didn't even notice was there. And I'm like, yeah, But if you're worried about that, you did notice that I spliced three different videos together to make this podcast episode possible.

46:36Anthony Lemos: No, there are lots of things where I have gone in and done some pretty serious repair work on things. And someone else says, oh, but what was up with the Echo? And at that point, the Echo is the last of my concerns because I might have heard it and I might even try to EQ it out. But because the other stuff I fixed, the priority was the other stuff and not the echo. Yep.

47:03Hammond Chamberlain: How about the days when there's announcements?

47:06Anthony Lemos: Oh, like when we're on a timetable on waiting to get the information? Yeah. I have yet to really work on one of those days because they don't usually fall on the two days I work.

47:19Hammond Chamberlain: So there's basically two ways we go about it on DTNS. We either pre-record the smaller stories and then wait for the announcement and then record the announcement part of it and slap it at the front. And you'll never even notice that we were, that it's two different recordings. Or we wait and then we record the whole thing after the fact.

47:41Anthony Lemos: Okay. I think I have done one of those. I think it was one like a Google IO day. And I think we sat around, basically we're all there. everything was 90 % written and we were just waiting for go. Yeah. And I even think Jason might've had most of the information because of moratoriums couldn't record it until the moratorium was over.

48:02Hammond Chamberlain: Yeah. We just had one of those not too long ago where Jason had all the information he had experienced. And I think he was at Google IO and we had all the stuff in the doc, but we couldn't release it because of moratorium. And then we watched the presentation to make sure they didn't add anything extra before we recorded. then we recorded and maybe 20 minutes after we finished recording, I was still like putting the episode together and publishing it. A surprise came out and it was just like, well, I guess that's just, that's just how that is now. So we're just going to have to cover that tomorrow.

48:35Anthony Lemos: Well, there was one where just recently within the last few months where we had, we'd published it. And then Tom actually recorded a supplemental and put it out. And I don't remember what the story was, But basically something big broke and Tom put out a just he just went out and recorded and published a supplemental. Yeah. Just he said, I got this. And I just it was like 10 extra minutes that he threw out later in the afternoon. And I forgot what it was. It was a big deal. But because it was worth doing.

49:05Hammond Chamberlain: The worst part about that is when you sit there and you wait for a two hour presentation to end for there to be nothing new. and it's like man now everything we just did is going out hours later because we wanted to be safe and we wanted to make sure we had the full coverage and we had it at nine o 'clock or 9 15 instead of you know now it's 11 30 and we're just not putting it out there yeah yeah well it's like

49:33Anthony Lemos: the uh like the which is recently we did a story about not apple not the details of apple leaks but we did a story about how Apple leaks work. And it was really interesting because there were some Apple leaks that had come out, but we didn't address them directly. We addressed the way Apple works with leaks and how on board or how, you know, how much of a hand they play in their own leakage. And it was a very interesting story. But at the same time, yeah, we're dealing with stuff that was leaked last, you know, the day before. Or it's just, I don't know, news is interesting because in some stories, there is a longer fuse and a longer shelf life than with other stories.

50:19Anthony Lemos: Other stories seem to burn out really quick and they don't have much. They hit hard, they hit fast, and they burn out. And then others tend to linger and stick around and evolve and develop. and we'll cover this, you know, a similar story, just different elements of it or different aspects of it for a week or more in some cases.

50:39Hammond Chamberlain: Yeah. Now here's something, I don't know if you have any experience with this for DTNS. I'm sure you have it for other shows. The post-publishing correction. Yes.

50:53Anthony Lemos: I've only had it with DTNS a couple of times. Yeah. it sometimes is as simple as a word or a spelling or a number. And then other times it is more complicated, like pulling the file down and redoing and X-ing something or adding, having something, you know, usually it's removing something that was said to make sure that we're clear.

51:19Hammond Chamberlain: Yeah. Yeah. Most of the time that I've encountered it with DTS, at least it's, pulling the file down, making a small correction, and pushing it, you know, just basically replacing the file. So if you've already downloaded the original file, we're not going to go back and like pull that out. We're not going to correct it, but it's something we don't want to leave that out there for posterity, you know? I think it's only happened maybe twice that I've been working on DTNS. So since 2019, that we've actually completely unpublished one and then published a whole new post with the new file and the new information or whatever else in there.

52:00Hammond Chamberlain: Because it was that egregious of a mistake, either by the writing team or by the editing team or whatever. Yeah. I think it's only happened twice in the, was it almost seven years I've been working with Tom?

52:12Anthony Lemos: Well, there's the one with the mouth noise. That was a complete pull down and republish. But it had nothing to do with content correctness.

52:19Hammond Chamberlain: It was listener comfort. Right, but you just replaced the file on that. You didn't make a whole new post for it to overrode the other. No, I didn't do that.

52:29Anthony Lemos: And then the only other thing, there was one episode where someone said something that made an allusion to something that might have led people to believe something else. And so we. This episode is brought to you by Capital One. Capital One's tech team isn't just talking about multi-agentic AI. They already deployed one. It's called Chat Concierge and it's simplifying car shopping. Using self-reflection and layered reasoning with live API checks, it doesn't just help buyers find a car they love. It helps schedule a test drive, get pre-approved for financing, and estimate trade in value. Advanced, intuitive, and deployed.

53:08Anthony Lemos: That's how they stack. That's technology at Capital One. Hey, it's Paige from Giggly Squad and I want to let you know that if you want the newest and hottest beauty products, you have to go to Sephora. I'm obsessed with the One Size Liquid Blotting Paper Spray. It's the first of its kind blotting spray that mattifies for up to eight hours. It's unreal. There's also the Summer Friday Shade Drops SPF 50, which basically lives in my bag at this point. Oh, and the Kayali Eden Plush Pear smells so good. It's sweet, warm, and addictive. Like, people literally stop me and ask what perfume I'm wearing, which you know I love.

53:43Anthony Lemos: So if you want the makeup, skincare, hair, and fragrance products everyone's about to be obsessed with, shop only at Sephora.

54:13Anthony Lemos: sure to stay within the bounds of not making assumptions and not making presumptions, uh, and staying within what is news and not kind of making things up or, yeah, they're very good about staying within a certain realm of reality.

54:30Hammond Chamberlain: Um, and I think for me, the last thing that I'd want to bring up with this is when you're going through this process, when you're working with other people and you have different expectations or you think you have the same expectations and they come back with some constructive criticism, it's not about having a thick skin. It's about having an open ear because there are so many different ways to do all of this. And if you're doing what we do and you can't read an email and be like, yep, nope, I can see their point there. I don't agree, but I can see their point.

55:10Anthony Lemos: This probably isn't for you because again, there's so many ways of

55:15Hammond Chamberlain: doing it out there. Yeah.

55:17Anthony Lemos: Well, I just, when we went to video, one of the first times we did video, uh, I published an episode that missed the roll in completely. It was, and it was not a typical end of show roll in. It was like part of the main story roll in and it just wasn't there when in the published episode and there's like seven minutes of void. And I got an email from Tom saying, Hey, we got seven minutes of void. I'm like, okay, I'll be right on it. And I got it turned around and republished, you know, within the half hour. And, but, and it was embarrassing. And it was one of those moments of, okay, now I know I can't do these things because this is what happens.

55:58Anthony Lemos: And it was a huge learning moment, but it was also one of those moments where I'm like, yeah, I, I screwed up. I'm going to fix it and I'm going to fix it right now. I'm not going to, push it off. I'm not going to say I'm too busy. I'm not going to say I have time. My job is to fix it. So therefore I fixed it. And this is another one of those things where, and I'm sure, especially you and I, since we're,

56:18Hammond Chamberlain: we both use DaVinci, um, we can really work on how we work together because if something goes wrong and you can't fix it and it comes down to, you know, I need to fix it because you're not available, that's a system we haven't developed because we haven't needed to. But it is definitely something I'd want to develop before we do need it. Because it's an eventuality. Like, there's eventually going to be something that gets messed up that the person that had control of the process is not going to be able to be the one to fix it. And to save time, being able to have shared assets just makes it easier.

57:00Hammond Chamberlain: Right. Yeah. Yeah, and we're lucky in that aspect, too, that we have the Dropbox that we all use and can all work out of.

57:08Anthony Lemos: But, you know, like, for instance, I'm actually starting to contemplate the idea of using Fairlight and doing all of my projects, audio and video, in that DaVinci Resolve studio. Because, yeah, I know logic like the back of my hand at this point. But at the same time, using two programs is kind of a cumbersome problem. And as soon as I can get the right templates set up, I'm going to try doing everything in Fairlight.

57:36Hammond Chamberlain: I think me moving to Fairlight as my primary DAW is about 90 % there. There's just a few things that I can do in Audition that I cannot do in Fairlight or that I haven't found a way to do in Fairlight. But it's almost there. And especially with, again, with DaVinci, we can share projects and it can all just be there. We can be both be working on it at the same time. And that is another value add for a fairly cheap program. I mean, most of it's free.

58:13Anthony Lemos: Look, the version I published this last weekend because I was in St. George, the version on my laptop is the free version. And I did not bump into anything that I couldn't do on the one I pay for at home. Right. Right.

58:27Hammond Chamberlain: I kind of just bought the full version just to make sure that I had it available, like if something did come up. And also, I don't mind supporting Blackmagic on a bit of software that they put together that is absolutely amazing, even if that is not their business model. They're into the hardware stuff that I will never afford.

58:48Anthony Lemos: But the nice thing for me, though, is like I actually said to my wife, it's like, OK, I'm going to bring my laptop. I'm going to do everything on my laptop. If I bump into anything, I might have to buy it again or try if my license will transfer over or whatever. I had all these different like ultimatum things in my head. But as it was, there was nothing I bumped into that it didn't do on its own on the free model. So if you want to dabble in something that's kind of a big deal, but not overwhelming, overwhelming da vinci is a great place to go because that they've got their free is robust

59:26Hammond Chamberlain: yeah yeah i i they won me over on that um because exporting the files from premiere would take 30 minutes for cord killers it would take upwards of an hour because i'm doing three different files for each of the three shows and two of those are video so it'd take over an hour uh it takes about nine minutes with DaVinci? Yeah. Yep. I don't know what Premiere's doing. It takes so long, but man, it's so quick on DaVinci.

1:00:01Anthony Lemos: Yeah. And that's the thing I noticed. His final cut was super boggy and DaVinci. Whatever DaVinci's doing under the hood to process video, keep that secret, fellas, because it's the secret sauce that keeps me happy.

1:00:15Hammond Chamberlain: Yeah. And of course, you and I are eventually going to get into doing Lutz and things like that. And we're going to be like, Oh, this is what takes so long. Yeah. Um, all right, well, let's do a quick, uh, a quick recap here. Uh, what's the biggest, biggest bit of advice you would have for someone who's getting into a daily routine of podcasting something, especially news, but really just daily podcasting in general, uh, build a template,

1:00:42Anthony Lemos: no matter what you're using, build a template. And then, uh, I would make sure that whoever you're working with, whether it be another host or whatever the, whether, whatever that process is, whether it be a team like we have, or one host, like I do with other shows, uh, build a good communication where that you do have the open ear because being daily, they're going to be mistakes made and everyone has to own those. Everyone has to accept them. And sometimes they're fixable. Sometimes they're not. Sometimes you can laugh about them. Sometimes you don't. So you just have to have like like amos said an open ear it's not about thick skin it's just not being a it's where you're you own your stuff and move by it learn from it well you took mine because mine

1:01:28Hammond Chamberlain: would be check your pride yeah um understand that you're going to make mistakes other people are going to make mistakes and the more communicative you are about it the better everyone will recover and the better product you're going to have at the end of it and that's really what it's about is making sure that you have a stable and entertaining, at least as entertaining as it needs to be, and listenable product. Yeah. So.

1:01:56Anthony Lemos: I think the reason shows like DTNS have lasted so long is because Tom makes sure he picks the right people, but the right people stick around too. Right.

1:02:10Hammond Chamberlain: Now, here's a little something for the audience out there. If you want to hear more about how Hammond and I produce or you have specific questions, we would love some specific questions. Feel free to email us, feedback at dailytechnewsshow.com. Let us know. Whatever the title of this episode is going to be, just put that in the subject line. Or just put Dear Amos and Hammond. Yeah, that'll get to us as well. But let us know. And if you enjoyed this episode and you want to hear more about this, we have a patron perk that's going to be like the producer's corner that's coming up once a month. It's going to be talk something like this, but a little more involved with Tom and Rob and other people involved on the show, different hosts, things like that.

1:02:56Hammond Chamberlain: And me and Hammond. And I'm sure it's supposed to be in Hammond and I or Hammond and me. Man, grammar is hard. Us. Us. It'll involve us. See? See, this is me editing. Instant feedback.

1:03:14Hammond Chamberlain: And I hate to say it, but I'd really like to get Roger in on that as well, because he's as much as him and I don't agree on how the process works. We both really have a passion for a strong end product. And that's been one of the things that him and I, he and I, that we have, I don't want to say bonded over, but it's something that we've built our relationship around. is both of us like to have a very strong end product, even if we don't get there the same way.

1:03:44Anthony Lemos: And that's the thing about podcasting is there are a million ways to do it. And even just within the fact that we sometimes, like I use Logic and you use Adobe and I use Waze plugins and you use Isotope or whatever there is, there's a million ways to get to a good product and for it to sound almost identical. It's just a matter of making sure you communicate those things so that people know the variables you're working with.

1:04:10Hammond Chamberlain: See, now we're going to have to go back and have you rerecord that line to say indistinguishable instead of identical. See, these are the things that happen. Okay, I'll do it right now. I'll say it for you to edit in. Indistinguishable. I'm not going to edit it in. Oh, okay. It'd be really messy. For this episode, it either need to be super clean to show just how good we are at editing or just live to tape. Yeah, which is what they're going to get. They're going to get live to tape. All right. Well, that's it for us for Experiment Week. I'm Amos. And I'm Hammond. And let us know. Feedback at DailyTechNewsShow.com.

1:04:47Hammond Chamberlain: We've got plenty more shows this week. I'm not sure when this is going to air, but hopefully you've listened to them all and you give us feedback on them because this is how we develop. This is how we make new things and how we take what we hear from you and turn them into a product to see if that's something that you'll actually listen to and that you'll enjoy.

1:05:10Anthony Lemos: The DTNS family of podcasts. Helping each other understand.

1:05:16Hammond Chamberlain: Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this program. And scene. that was like 45 minutes almost 15 maybe probably 50 minutes we went in pretty quick after we hit

1:05:32Anthony Lemos: record