Should AI Chatbots Age? - DTNSB 5068

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1:59Huyen Tue Dao: This episode is sponsored by HeyGen. AI is great at saving time, but only if it actually fits into your workflow. That's what makes HeyGen so compelling. Instead of spending hours setting up lights, cameras, and retakes, you can turn a script, photo, or presentation into a polished video of you in minutes. No production crew required. Whether you're a creator, consultant, attorney, financial advisor, or real estate agent, HeyGen helps you create consistent, professional video content without making content creation your full-time job. It's rated the number one AI video platform for small business on G2, features some of the industry's most realistic AI avatars, is trusted by more than 30 million people and 85 % of the Fortune 100, and supports over 175 languages, so you can communicate with audiences around the world.

2:45Huyen Tue Dao: Here's the wild part. Record yourself for just 15 seconds, and HeyGen builds an AI avatar that makes professional videos for you on demand, so you can post everywhere your audience is, as yourself, without filming every time. Your first three videos are free at heygen.com slash pod. That's H-E-Y-G-E-N dot com slash P-O-D. This is the Daily Tech News for Friday, July 25th, 2025. We tell you what you need to know, follow up on context, and help each other understand. Today, Microsoft thinks chatbots should be more personal and age. Yeah, get older, like me. I'm Tom Merritt. I'm Rick Whitdow. Let's start with what you need to know with the big story.

3:30Huyen Tue Dao: Yeah, Microsoft's AI CEO, Mustafa Salaman, you might know him. He founded DeepMind, Google's DeepMind, told the Colin and Samir show this week that his team will launch a virtual character for the Copilot Digital Assistant. Part of that is the new appearance feature that Microsoft previewed this week. Select Copilot Labs users in Canada, the UK, and the US can access that. Appearance gives you a little marshmallow-y blob with a face on it to chat with. And it can respond with expressions like, oh, it looks surprised or happy or whatever. also has a conversational memory so that it knows what you've talked about before.

4:12Huyen Tue Dao: This is similar to what Suleiman was working on at Inflection AI before the Inflection AI team joined Microsoft in March of last year. On the podcast, Suleiman said, Copilot will certainly have a kind of permanent, you know, identity, a presence, and it will have a room that it lives in and it will age. You know, I'm really interested in this idea of digital patina. The things I love in my world are the things that are a little bit worn and rubbed down and have got scuff marks and, you know, and that makes it feel like it's mine. And unfortunately, the digital world at the moment, we don't have a sense of age.

4:49Huyen Tue Dao: We don't have any kind of sense that something, you know, has temporality at all, actually. It's sort of an infinite space. So what do you think, Gwen? You want your chatbots to age? I don't. You know, I really get the the approach that that or I think I get the desire that we're talking about here. You know, like as a weeb, I'll say like it's like that wabi-sabi. It's like I get it. There's a personal there's something very personally. Yeah, there's there's like a history that you can see very visually. I I I don't know. And I think that in a way, though, I do think some digital things do age, but it doesn't age in the same way that physical things do.

5:30like I don't know like this is very like more inside baseball for programming but I can tell you know when I look at my code for example how old it is where I was when I wrote it I can see different trends in maybe what is popular in my in my community what I almost like like kind of visually tell oh I wrote this back in like 2005 and and this is when I thought that this was the right thing to do oh no um and so it's a little bit different like it's not the same there's not an analog to maybe scuffs but there is a sense of age and time or like that same feeling you get when you see a geocity site that somehow is still up you know you you do have i think it's i think it's the same feeling i i just i just don't know how you know i i've i and it's also very personal yeah like how we feel about like maybe even what we see as patina so i like the i the concept i just have a really hard time visualizing what that could be for an AI or for a chatbot?

6:27Huyen Tue Dao: I don't know if age is the right word. And I know you used scuff marks and everything, but all the examples you gave and all the examples I can think of myself are things that stopped improving, stopped updating, right? You look at that old code and you're like, Ooh, I don't write like that. My own writing. If I look at my own novels that I wrote decades ago, I'm like, Ooh, I would not write that way now. And that's because I have continued to update. But that's also because we've aged, right? We've become different coders, different writers. So maybe that's the kind of thing Suleiman's talking about is it grows with you.

7:03Huyen Tue Dao: It gets to know you. It matures. So it's not, he said the rub down and scuff marks thing, which make it sounds like it doesn't change, right? Things that are rubbed down and scuff marks are like old stuff that you don't change, but it still works. And that's not what chatbots are going to be for a long time, I wouldn't think. We're going to want them to continue to improve and update and get better and like us, hopefully, mature and get better at what we do. It's so weird because I think that also, I totally agree. So from that perspective, yeah, for sure. And the personalization and the fact that it, in a sense, knows who you are, right?

7:41It has progressed with you throughout your life. So that maybe, for example, I don't know, right now, I ask it, you know, it knows that maybe like right now, I like to work out a lot. I like to do crochet and I like to watch this in the show. Whereas in 10 years I might be different. And so the way it approaches me, the way it asks me questions, the things that it knows that I like might be different, but it almost feels like that's like very transparent at the same time, because I think that's how we as people age as well with the people around us. Like for example, my husband and I think are quite different people in many ways than we were when we first met, but to us that's been very trans, just trans like opaque.

8:15I was, we can't tell. It's one of the two. It's either transparent or opaque, but it's, yeah, it happens slow enough

8:21Huyen Tue Dao: that you, yeah, I know exactly what you mean. Yeah. So it's, it's weird because this is like one of those things I think is so interesting because it's so ephemeral and it's hard to explain. And I totally understand the reason that the, the reasoning behind wanting to somehow, you know, make digital things resemble real life in this way. But it's that thing where it's, It's just really hard to put parameters around it and, you know, be able to also create it in such a way that it is communicated to everybody's experience. I just think it's a really fascinating problem. Yeah, especially because I like the idea in theory anyway.

8:58Huyen Tue Dao: And I know those who are apocalyptically minded will take this in a whole other direction. But I like the idea of a companion chatbot that gets to know me better and gets to understand me better, like you're saying. Like you're in your example, it could be like, Hey, remember when you went through that period where you were crocheting a lot, do you want to take that back up? Like 10 years from now, you're like, Oh, right. I forgot all about that sort of thing. Like that's interesting to me, obviously with safeguards and guidelines and everything like that, but, uh, privacy protections, et cetera.

9:29Huyen Tue Dao: Uh, and Suleiman is really into that. That's what he was doing at inflection was like, we want to make companions for people. Um, I don't know that everyone needs that, but even if you just need it for helping you code, it wouldn't be as vast and personable as a friend, but it could be a coding assistant that grows with you and gets better at being your type of coding assistant because it understands your quirks and your preferences. No, and that's a really big thing. I think even, you know, people that I'm very close to, like some of my, unsurprisingly, maybe some of my best friends are also Android developers.

10:07Huyen Tue Dao: That's how wide my space is. Weird. Some of my best friends are podcasters. But, you know, even between us, you know, we have very distinct, very distinct styles, very distinct things that we care about, very distinct things that, you know, piss us off or make us happy. And it's very much like a personality. And then, you know, when you when you're in a shared space, you know, just like real life, you you kind of compromise or you know which parts of yourself to share or hold back, you know, just for the sake of, you know, accomplishing a task or doing a thing. So yeah, it could be that the AI knows me and hopefully would also know how to provide feedback in a way that I appreciate because sometimes that doesn't happen.

10:48So I could definitely see that. That could be really, really useful. I think that would be cool. And I think that's where, yeah, I think that does spark some interest.

10:56Huyen Tue Dao: Yeah. There was also a lot of talk about becoming an assistant for creators and replacing YouTube somehow. And he gave out his email address. It's a really interesting episode. Really interesting discussion. So definitely go check out the Colin and Samir show episode if you want to hear more about what Mustafa Salaman said. It was a good interview. All right. Well, DTS is made possible by you, the listener. We want to take time to thank Paul Thiessen, Ali Sanjabi, AB Puppy, and welcome new patron, Crist. Yay, new patron. Episode prep gets messy when research, Slack threads, and script trackers are all in different places.

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15:23Huyen Tue Dao: There's more we need to know today. Let's get right to the briefs. I will Intel reported a Q2 revenue that beat expectations and has completed the majority of its planned layoffs, ending the year with 75 ,000 employees. CEO Lipu Tan also announced it will cancel factory construction in Germany and Poland, slow down construction of a factory in Ohio, and consolidate testing and assembly operations in Vietnam and Malaysia. As for cutting-edge chip development, Tan said, going forward, our investment in Intel 14a will be based on confirmed customer commitments, and it would consider pausing or canceling 14a if it doesn't get a significant customer for it.

16:03Yeah.

16:04Huyen Tue Dao: So a lot of the reporting around this is the sky is falling. And in fact, I've seen headlines that says Intel announces more layoffs. And I, if I'm, maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I read the report as Intel announced almost all of its layoffs are done. Like it has done the layoffs. Either way, it's not good news. So I get that. And then the cutting edge chip development is also, I'm seeing a lot of headlines. They're like, Intel announces it might stop foundry production. And it's like, no, what they said is they're going to not do 14A if they can't find customers for it, which makes sense.

16:41Huyen Tue Dao: If you can't get anyone to buy your thing, then you're not going to make the thing. But on the other hand, that is bad news. Like that alone is bad news. If you're saying your earnings report are always your best look. And if your best look is like, well, if we can't find customers, we might not do it. That does say a lot. But it isn't like Intel is announcing they're canceling their foundries today. Yeah. I mean, it's more, it seems like a pulling back almost like in us. I wouldn't say austerity measures, but you're just like, hey, we just got to like chill out. You know, we can't be like we were, you know, when we were younger and just go ahead and do all kinds of crazy things.

17:16We got to like, you know, buckle down kind of thing. But I don't know. Yeah. Not sky falling, but definitely not a great period.

17:22Huyen Tue Dao: The sky is slowly sinking towards Intel, but it's not falling, I think is what's going on here. And I think the other thing is Pat Gelsinger was saying a lot of the same things when he was the CEO of Intel of like, you know, we got to turn the ship around. We got to make some cuts. We got to tighten up. And Lip Bhutan is saying the same things, right? And people are like, OK, but at what point do you stop doing that and you start growing? So it is not an enviable job. Last year, the European Commission adopted something called the Transparency and Targeting of Political Advertising Law, or the TTPA.

17:58Huyen Tue Dao: It requires companies that sell ads to label political advertisements, so you know that they're political, provide information about who paid for them, information about the election or referendum they're about, and how much the ad costs, as well as what targeting mechanisms were used. So a lot of paperwork, but a lot of information for you when you see a political ad to know like, OK, who's behind this. Also requires users to give explicit consent if a company wants to use personal data to target them with political ads. That kind of is de rigueur in the European Union right now as far as targeting goes.

18:31Huyen Tue Dao: But here's the rub. It forbids companies from using race, ethnicity or political opinion from being used to target an ad. And, you know, if you've got people who want to target Democrats, it's kind of hard to target them. You know, Democratic social Democrats, since we're talking about Europe. It's kind of hard to target them if you don't if you're not allowed to do that. Meta says the TTPA places extensive restrictions on ad targeting and delivery, which would restrict how political and social issue advertisers can reach their audiences and lead to people seeing less relevant ads on our platform.

19:07Huyen Tue Dao: And as a result, Meta has joined Google in saying it will stop selling political ads and therefore running political ads in the European Union starting in October. This feels like something that, I don't know, will have some kind of unforeseen impact over time. And I'm not the kind of smart that can tell what this is. But it always feels like little decisions like this will have some kind of weird ripple effect in like 10 years when we realize that because of this particular law and this particular move by, say, Meta and Google, that it shifted, that somehow opinions or information that gets to people shifts in certain ways.

19:44And I'm not even saying like, again, not that smart, not smart in this way. It's just so interesting, like how these little decisions might actually change things. And I don't know.

19:53Huyen Tue Dao: No, the law of unintended consequences will apply. Right. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. That speech will go somewhere and you may not like where it goes. I also think that it's a while it's reasonable to say, like, well, if we can't even target the political ads, maybe we shouldn't take them. The political campaigns will still pay you even if you can't target them properly. So this is turning down money, and I think it's more of a gambit to bargain and put pressure on the very people passing the laws, the politicians who buy these ads. Oh, yeah, that makes sense. So I don't know if it'll change anything, but it does feel like Meta and Google, yes, probably both things are true.

20:42Huyen Tue Dao: It's probably more trouble than it's worth in a lot of ways, but also it's meant to send a message. All right. Well, speaking of Google, Google is testing a cursor-like coding assistant called Opal. US users can try it in Google Labs and can create web apps by using text prompts to describe the app or mix existing apps from a gallery. Once the app is ready, you can use an editor panel to look at which internal prompt dictated each step and edit as necessary. You can also manually add steps. And finally, you can publish the app on the web and share the link with others. You could describe it as a more visual version of Google's AI Studio.

21:17Yeah.

21:18Huyen Tue Dao: You don't use like Cursor or anything like that, do you? I should. Like I have been using Claude for some things. I work in Android Studio. Android Studio has its own kind of like version of Gemini. So I've heard a lot of good things about Cursor. I have, again, an Android developer friend who loves Cursor. So this could be really interesting. yeah this is the first time probably because it's in google so i'm like i don't have to give over the hump of signing up for something because i'm already there uh where i'm like oh i wonder if i should try making a web thing you know and and just to see how if it's as easy as google would like you to think it is but i also know this isn't necessarily the first or even the best version of this kind of thing it's so interesting because like i think even as someone who's spent my entire as someone who spent their entire life programming even when it comes to say like so for example i use squarespace for my own website and i still find it like i don't have time to learn how to like do all the ins and outs of squarespace to do like you know fancy the kind of fancy things that i want to do and so something like this actually is really appealing because like i want to be like well i want this i want a parallax feature here and i want some like fireworks to shoot out of the bottom corner when someone hits this button and then so i like that idea very very much um especially again as we've talked about before kind of like you know just to be able to bridge gaps where your knowledge or your skill set just isn't quite sufficient.

22:38I like it.

22:39Huyen Tue Dao: Axios and The Verge are both reporting that GPT-5 will release in August. You may recall that back on June 18th, Sam Altman told Andrew Main on the official OpenAI podcast that GPT-5 would come out this summer. What is the timeframe for GPT-5? When are we going to see this? Probably sometime this summer. Right. I don't know exactly when. Yeah. So July is almost over. So we're running out of summer. It seems unsurprising that August might be the time. The Verge's sources also say GPT-5 will launch with mini and nano versions. Whenever it gets here, the information sources say GPT-5 doing well, outperforming Claude Sonnet 4 in practical software and engineering tasks.

23:22All right. So here's a bit of Apple news that Tom thought would be funny if one of the co-hosts of Android Faithful told you about. So Apple officially released the public betas of iOS 26, iPad OS 26, Mac OS Tahoe 26, watch OS 26, and tvOS 26. Public betas can be accessed from the device and don't require you to have a developer account. Everything gets liquid glass. The Mac gets more powerful spotlight and shortcuts. iOS gets the camera redesign and call filtering and ipad os gets smarter shortcuts an improved files app and a new windowing system apple also updated its app store age rating system to add 13 plus 16 plus and 18 plus ratings to the existing 4 plus and 9 plus ratings and then take out the 12 plus and 17 plus ratings you got all that i know developers will also need to answer more age rating questions product listings will have more info to help parents decide which apps are appropriate for their children.

24:22Huyen Tue Dao: Thank you. You've made me very happy. I don't know why. It's actually just the way the rundown landed. I was like, oh, I guess we'll have one read all the Apple news. But yeah, I mean, people get excited about betas and they're easier to access. So that all makes sense. Everybody's going to get to take their pot shots at liquid glass. And the age rating systems being a little more robust is a way for them to prepare for parental controls and stuff like that. No, I'm all for that. It's just, I just think it's interesting. And I just want to be like the fly on the wall to kind of, just to kind of curious about like the, what's just the adjustments of like these different age, like groups and just kind of curious about, even just as a developer myself, who's trying to be aware of these things, just like, okay, so what's the reasoning between like these two age groups and that age group?

25:11Like, what are we protecting? What are, what kind of threats are we worried about? So I just, it's all very interesting and well done.

25:16Huyen Tue Dao: So yeah. Yeah. The Internet Archive, which you can find at archive.org, most famous for the Wayback Machine, has been granted U.S. federal depository status. That makes it part of the 1 ,100 libraries in the United States that can provide public access to government documents. I mean, anybody can provide public access, but they get them direct from the source. They're part of the system. Each member of Congress can designate up to two libraries to provide public access to government information. And that includes things like published budgets, the Code of Federal Regulations, presidential documents, economic reports, census data.

25:53Huyen Tue Dao: Archive.org already includes these documents, but it had to go out and find them and then replicate them. And so this will plug them into the pipeline and they'll get them immediately and directly and it'll improve its access, basically. I used to work at a federal depository library. That's probably one of the reasons I was excited to put this in here. I actually think this is really cool. And I like that stipulation that each member of Congress can designate up to two libraries. So presumably like, you know, a congressperson, a congressman would understand like what local libraries would be, you know, the most like benefit, like would have the most benefit in receiving these.

26:27I think that was at first I was like, oh, that's so interesting. But yeah, like this is this is really cool.

26:32Huyen Tue Dao: Yeah, senator from California, designated archive.org. And now everybody in the country, actually everybody in the world can access this stuff. And the archive can now help other libraries with their digitization efforts and stuff like that. Yeah, I guess, especially in this world, we kind of worry about proliferation of information to public and just broadly, you know, broadly, broad access. This is awesome. This is cool. All right. Well, another in the parade of tech companies striking deals with energy companies. Italy's Energy Dome company said Friday it will supply carbon-free energy to grids that power Google's operations.

27:07Energy Dome makes a battery that can store energy by compressing and liquefying carbon dioxide. It has a commercial plant in Sardinia that will supply energy to France's NG Power utility this year.

27:20Huyen Tue Dao: Yeah, I want to be very excited about this. The idea of taking carbon dioxide out of the air and then using it for power storage is great. The more I see tech companies signing deals to find sustainable energy sources for their increasing energy needs, the better. I think that is definitely the way forward. I got a little disconcerted when I went to find out when this Sardinia plant went online and it has not gone online. Apparently it was supposed to go online at the end of 2024. Then it was supposed to go online in Q2 2025. It does not appear to still have gone online. Maybe it needed funding and maybe Google's investment is the thing that it needed to get this off the ground.

28:09Huyen Tue Dao: So I'm hoping this isn't vaporware. Um, that becomes a pun when you think about carbon dioxide. Yes, I was like, I didn't mean it to be, but there you go. Uh, but yeah, I, I want this to be a good news story. At least I, I hope it will be. Uh, Lyft will partner with Austria's Benteler group to deploy its Holon, H-O-L-O-N, autonomous shuttles in the U.S. by the end of next year. Uh, Benteler shuttles do not need steering wheels, pedals, or windshields. They're that kind. Neuro makes them like that. I think Amazon Zoox makes them like that. they are good enough on routes, on predefined routes that you don't need to even have anybody supervising.

28:49Huyen Tue Dao: Lyft also has a partnership with Max Mobility for autonomous car service in Atlanta. So Lyft expanding these sorts of partnerships coming later this year. Uber also offers an autonomous ride service with WeRide in Abu Dhabi and Waymo in several US cities. It looks like the Bentilair partnership with Lyft is going to be used for airports, kind of shuttling you around on a predefined route and with cities, I assume on city run transportation routes. Makes sense. All right. We're going to balance out the Apple news with some Samsung news. Samsung has closed a loophole in developer code that actually leaked One UI firmware that was in development.

29:26So basically you could access Samsung's internal test servers, use to seed software updates and download anything, which is fine unless you don't want folks to see that stuff. Samsung made a change and now you can only get the publicly released firmware files, including betas from those servers. And some benchmarks spotted Samsung's Exynos 2600, implying it has a 10 core cluster of performance cores. Samsung reportedly began mass production of the mobile chip on a 2 nanometer process in June. And finally, Samsung's president and chief operating officer of its mobile division says the company is in talks with OpenAI, Perplexity, and others to provide AI services for its Galaxy devices.

30:09The idea is to give options beyond Gemini.

30:12Huyen Tue Dao: Yeah. Sad to see all of those Samsung blogs, including some that our good friends work at, losing a loophole. But if anything, those folks are good at finding other loopholes. So I imagine this won't be the last One UI firmware leak we ever see. It just won't come from this method. And then, yeah, Samsung talking to multiple services, Apple takes a world of criticism for doing this. I kind of feel like it's just the way the platform makers are going to go. Yes, they may develop their own. Samsung may or may not. Apple is trying to. But it feels like for now, anyway, providing lots of options for folks is the thing that they are doing.

30:56I mean, it just kind of makes sense. It is weird just because the last few years, you know, Samsung has partnered very tightly with Google and released a lot of like the same features, but branded as Galaxy AI. But I think it just drives with how people actually are used, like how people actually use chatbots. You know, we all kind of have our preferences. There's so many out there. And I mean, I guess not really the same thing, but as a counter to kind of all of the other semi-related adjacent stories about, you know, search engine choice, it kind of makes a sense that, you know, at this point, you know, with especially as a technology, especially we're kind of like in this very weird amorphous, like everyone's battling out and like leapfrogging over each other.

31:34It makes sense as maybe like a hardware OEM just to kind of play the field, if that is like the right way of saying it.

31:40Huyen Tue Dao: And in fact, when you were describing that, it made me realize, you know, we don't use these things for a thing. We use them for a lot of things. So there's an argument to say Samsung should continue to use Gemini as Galaxy AI for the stuff you do on your phone, like change the settings and do all of that, but then provide you perplexity when you're doing a search, asking a question like, oh, do you want to ask it of open AI? Would you like to ask it of perplexity? Like you, you don't have to, it's not an either or. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, so there's, I mean, on top of all this, there's a lot of other kind of more, you know, domain specific AI.

32:16So I'm a, as an Android person, I do a lot of Kotlin. The company that makes Kotlin is making their own AI. And they stated before that they actually internally, they use other engines as engines, other chatbots internally, depending on the specific tasks that they're doing. So something that might be more like text parsing, they might use one thing, something that is more like, you know, I don't know, some other aspect of generating code might use another thing. And so, yeah, kind of layering the strengths of each one or just having a preference even for a specific domain makes a lot of sense.

32:43So, yeah. Yeah.

32:45Huyen Tue Dao: You know what else makes a lot of sense? Buying stuff at our store. At least it makes sense to me. But did you know we have a store? We have a store. You can go to dailytechnewsshow.com slash store. We got like mugs. We got mouse pads. We have t-shirts. They have our logos on them. They're useful. You can drink things out of the mugs. Like the whole thing. My favorite thing in there though is Scott Johnson designed a root beer slash sarsaparilla glass for us with this like old timey take on the DTNS logo. Oh my God, I need to have that. Yeah, it's so cool. Go check it out. Dailytechnewsshow.com slash store.

33:50Huyen Tue Dao: We'll be right back. and use code audio for 20 % off your first purchase. That's Bombas.com and use code audio. Back to school is busy enough. The last thing you need is shopping that makes it harder. Whether you're moving into a dorm, your first apartment, or just getting organized for the semester, Wayfair makes it easy to get everything you need in one place. Furniture, bedding, storage, decor, study essentials, all at prices you'll love with fast shipping before move-in day. Get everything you need for back-to-school season. Shop Wayfair.com today. Wayfair, every style, every home. We end every episode of DTNS with some shared wisdom.

34:31Today, Samuel has some thoughts on the recording device from Bee. And if you recall, Amazon just agreed to buy the company.

34:39Huyen Tue Dao: Yeah, Samuel wrote, weighing in with my thoughts on the Bee story, I'm an early adopter of the Bee device and have absolutely loved it. As someone with brain damage from epilepsy, It was an amazing tool to help me take notes on everything from college courses to tabletop RPG sessions. I even used it to help me make show notes for my podcasts. The user's expectation was that after we were done testing the device, we were probably going to have to start paying a monthly subscription for all the API use, and we were willing to do so. I just hope Amazon doesn't kill it off, as it will be very difficult for me to replace how useful this thing has been.

35:14Huyen Tue Dao: Keep up the amazing work, Samuel. Amazing. All right. Well, if you have experience or some insight into a story that you want to share with us, like Samuel, or you just want to tell us what you're thinking about, email us feedback at dailytechnewsshow.com. Yes. Big thanks to Samuel for contributing to today's show. Thank you for being along for Daily Tech News Show. You can keep us in business by becoming a patron, patreon.com slash DTNS. Talk to you Monday.

35:47Huyen Tue Dao: This week's episodes of Daily Tech News Show Briefing were created by the following people. Host, producer, and writer Tom Merritt. Host and writer Jason Howell. Co-host Rob Dunwood. Co-host Jen Cutter. Co-host Wen Tui Dao. Producer Anthony Lemos. Producer Roger Chang. Editor Hammond Chamberlain. Editor Victor Bognot. Science correspondent Dr. Nikki Ackerman. Social media producer and moderator Zoe Detterding. Our mods. Beatmaster. W's Goddess One. BioCow. Captain Kipper. Steve Guadarama. Paul Reese. Matthew J. Stevens, a.k.a. Gadget Virtuoso, and J.D. Galloway. Modern video hosting by Dan Christensen.

36:21Huyen Tue Dao: Music provided by Martin Bell and Dan Luters. Art by Lynn Peralta. Acast ad support from Tatiana Matias. Patreon support from Bobby Wagner. Our guest this week was Andy Beach. And thanks to all the patrons who make the show possible.

36:37This show is part of the Frog Pants Network. Get more at frogpants.com.

36:45Huyen Tue Dao: Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this program.

36:51Huyen Tue Dao: Any pickups, Hammond? All right. Ending zero. Hey, guys. It's Drew Afualo from the comment section. Listen, it's time to stop settling for hair products that just don't work. With all the prestige brands at Sephora, upgrading your routine is easy. If your hair needs repair, they've got the K18 Leave-In Molecular Repair Hair Mask. If you're trying to level up your wash day, the Kerastase Elixir All-Time Hair Oil leaves your hair looking ridiculously shiny without feeling heavy. And if you're into that glossy, healthy hair vibe, the Gisu Honey Infused Hair Oil is a must-have. Also, Sephora makes it super convenient with free shipping and same-day delivery.

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38:09Thank you.

38:39Thank you.