The Straight Scoop on TikTok in the US - DTNS 5104

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2:47This is the Daily Tech News for Monday, September 15th, 2025. We tell you what you need to know, follow up on context, and help each other understand.

2:57Robb Dunewood: Today, we tell you what really is going on with the U.S. TikTok sale. Oh, yeah. There's a lot of fud out there. We're going to sort through it for you. I'm Tom Merritt. And I'm Rob Dunwood. Let's start with what you need to know with the big story. All right. Now, some of you already know this, but catch everybody up. Let's get a little of the backstory going. Since January 19th, TikTok has been operating in the U.S. thanks to the U.S. executive branch's decision not to enforce a law that requires it to be sold by January 19th or stop being distributed. Now, while it's debatable if that's legal, nobody has sued, and Apple and Google have tentatively said, okay, I guess we'll distribute it.

3:44The president of the United States has signed three executive orders extending the non-enforcement of that law. First extension went to April 5th, the next went to June 20th, and the most recent one will end on September 17th, this Wednesday. That brings us to the news today. U.S. Trade Representative Jameson Greer said Monday that that September 17th deadline may be needed to extend one more time, just a little bit, to get a deal signed. But hopefully that extension will be much shorter than the previous three because U.S. Treasury Secretary Scott Besant said Monday that the U.S. and China have agreed on a framework for a deal that would see both China's government and the U.S.

4:31government approve two private parties conducting a commercial transaction that would satisfy the U.S. law. Secretary Besant said, quote, it's between two private parties, but the commercial terms have been agreed upon. So it sounds like the commercial part of the deal is set. They're just trying to get the framework of what China and the U.S. are going to be comfortable agreeing to as governmental approval here. The U.S. and Chinese presidents will hold a call on Friday to discuss those terms. Representatives from the two countries are right now conducting trade talks in Madrid, Spain. one can assume that the tick tock deal might not be the only subject of the call but that's the purported reason for them talking on friday china would like to have the u.s president come and visit and have a big you know trade sign off for tariffs and everything else uh and i'm sure they'll be talking about that now at the same time that we're getting this tick tock news china's state administration for market regulation just decided to announce that they have found nvidia violated antitrust law after acquiring a Chinese company called Mellanox Technologies in 2020.

5:40China also announced that it will investigate another U.S. company, Texas Instruments, for violating anti-dumping laws. Anti-dumping laws prohibit foreign companies from selling below market value to undermine domestic competitors. Now, a lot of experts think that these decisions to announce this right now, as we're getting the news about a TikTok framework, let China appear to still be tough on the U.S. while agreeing to that TikTok deal. Now, as for TikTok, nobody has given any hints about who might take control of TikTok's U.S. operations or how the U.S. version of TikTok would interact with the version still controlled by ByteDance and the rest of the world.

6:18Oracle's Larry Ellison, Elon Musk, Frank McCourt's Project Liberty and Perplexity have all reportedly been considered to take over or at least have submitted it offers in Perplexity's case, it will also be notable whether TikTok's recommendation algorithm is part of this deal. That has been a hang-up for China. It's currently listed on China's export control list. In other words, you can't get ByteDance's TikTok recommendation algorithm without China issuing a license for it. Larry Ellison is also considered the frontrunner to take over. Since Oracle already runs the servers that host all of TikTok's US user data, there's already a separate company called USDS, which is ByteDance owned at the moment, but has an independent board of directors with former US government officials on it.

7:07And it operates all of TikTok's data in the US. So I suspect that that might provide some kind of part of this framework if say Oracle just took over that and they continued the relationship that USDS has with ByteDance. But that's my speculation. We don't know anything about that yet. But Rob, what do you make of all this?

7:27Robb Dunewood: There's a lot here. There's a lot here. And the question for me, the big question, I think this is probably the big question for everybody. Where does the algorithm go? Because I don't want to say that having a quarter billion people in a social media platform is not insignificant. But it's the algorithm that makes those quarter billion people want to be in the social media platform. I'm talking about the number of folks that are in North America that are knowing this. um so i i think that that is where i'm really interested to see what comes of this deal where does that algorithm go i still struggle to think that by dance is letting that go but we will soon find out yeah justin robert young is is a fan of saying uh you with the advancements in large language models and other kinds of models and and machine learning that that algorithm is not as hard to replace as it used to be.

8:19So it's possible that that is not as big of a sticking point that China can keep the algorithm and whoever takes over TikTok would feel like, you know, we've got a pretty good algorithm we can get from open AI, Anthropic, et cetera. I am still not as confident as Justin is at the fact that you can do one for one. You know, yes, there are very good algorithms, but there is something about TikTok's algorithm that works exceptionally well. And so anybody that replaces an algorithm is gonna have a public perception that it doesn't work as well, even if maybe on paper it does. I think the bigger part of this though, because I think Justin's right, you could probably get an algorithm that works pretty well.

9:02The bigger part of this is, am I gonna continue to see stuff from the rest of the world? If I follow musicians in Korea, Japan, Europe, and they're publishing, is it going to show up on my U.S. TikTok and vice versa? Is ByteDance going to still get all the Hollywood folks and U.S. sports figures and everybody in their posts? Is that going to show up everywhere else? To me, that's even a bigger deal than the algorithm is, am I still going to see all the same stuff?

9:33Robb Dunewood: Huge question. The thing that I'm thinking about, though, is that if the algorithm, I don't want to say it's easy, but if it's reproducible, would not these big, giant, you know, multi, multi-billion dollar companies like Meta and, you know, wouldn't they have come up with something that is better than what Instagram has right now? Because that's a, that's a big complaint of a lot of people on Instagram is that the algorithm is just not as good as it is over on TikTok. So I don't just think that it's easily done. And the other thing that, you know, has to be done here, and this is from whoever on the US side that would be purchasing purchasing this.

10:09Robb Dunewood: They can't do anything that will make a very finicky and, you know, and will move to another platform type public like Americans are. They love TikTok, but if TikTok is not doing it for them, they will go do something else almost instantaneously. And it's very difficult to get them to come back once they make that move. So I think that whatever happens here, they have to make sure that whatever's going on with the algorithm, it has to be locked tight and tight. It cannot allow users to creep out because as you said, even if it is as good, if the perception is that it's not, that's going to cost them users.

10:45Robb Dunewood: And we're not talking about a few users. We're talking about millions of them. Yeah. I mean, that's actually one of the, you brought up Instagram and Instagram's algorithm. It could be an indictment of meta's AI that it doesn't work as well. It could just be perception. It might work really well. And people just like yeah but tiktoks works better you know what i mean like and that is the i think probably the biggest threat i think i still think the biggest threat is content interaction like if you don't have the same content on there then all bets are off this is going to be an entirely different thing if if it's walled off but let's assume they figure that out and inter operation happens and everything posted on one tiktok shows up at the on the other one somehow uh everybody's going to think it's different just because it's a change.

11:30Right. And even if that algorithm is exactly the same, people are going to start going, I don't know, since the change, you know, because people just are primed to look for things because that thing's changing all the time. Right. Uh, so, so even if it's not a different algorithm, I think people are going to start looking askance at it and it's going to be a vulnerable time for TikTok for whoever buys it.

11:51Robb Dunewood: I don't want to implying too much because we're going to know in a week. But my gut tells me that whatever deal gets done, they're going to absolutely try to make sure that nothing really changes for the users because if things change for the users, someone has spent an awful lot of money to not be where you were the day before you bought it. Yeah. That's why I tend to think what I said there at the end of the read there, that the smartest move would be to say, Oracle now runs USDS and everything else stays the same. ByteDance doesn't own USDS. Oracle runs it, all the data's here, the system stays the same.

12:31That means USDS has access to the algorithm, but it doesn't own the algorithm because that's the way it works right now is employees at Project Texas have to like talk to people in Singapore about the ByteDance algorithm, talk to people in Beijing about the ByteDance algorithm, and then adjust it to work with USDS data. And to me, that's tailor-made. The only thing that is different is that ByteDance still owns USDS, even though it has an independent board of directors. Make that owner Larry Ellison, let everything else work the same, and you've got the least amount of changes.

13:06Robb Dunewood: Something tells me it's going to be a fun week. Yeah, yeah. It's going to be interesting. Because Earth is interested in this, but really the United States is really interested in this. This is something that's been captivating us for, you know, since January. So we're, you know, nine months in now. I'm also guessing we don't know everything after Friday's call. The way this has gone so far, it's just going to keep dribbling out somehow. DTNs is made possible by you, the listener, thanks to Chris Allen, Reed Fishler, and Larry Bailey. Thanks, y 'all.

14:09Robb Dunewood: by prescription only. Learn more or request a prescription at colaguard.com slash podcast. Hi, this is Kim and Penn Holderness from the Laugh Lines podcast. This episode is sponsored by Oli, your wellness partner for back to school and beyond. Back to school season is here. Packed backpacks, packed lunches and packed schedules are officially back. Oli Kids Sleep helps little dreamers wind down with a gentle blend of melatonin, L-theanine and botanicals for restful sleep. Translation, an easy way to put those school night negotiations to bed. And for the grownups, Ollie's sleep helps you fall asleep, stay asleep, and wake up feeling refreshed.

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17:05There's more we need to know today.

17:06Robb Dunewood: Let's get to the briefs. Amazon has scheduled a press announcement to take place in New York on September 30th at 10 a.m. Eastern Time. An image sent with the invite shows a person reading Amazon Echo-like glowing blue rings and a TV. We'd expect a new Kindle e-reader line, new Fire TV devices, and new Amazon Echo assistant devices. Amazon's last refresh, the X, though, in November of 2024. Former Microsoft executive, Pino Stene, has been head of Amazon's devices and services for two years now. Yeah, so some people are like, this could be the first line that's been entirely under his supervision the whole time.

17:43And they didn't really do a lot last year. They announced a few devices, but it wasn't the big announcement. So it's been two years since we had a big Amazon release like this.

17:54Robb Dunewood: It's been two years. And if it's not, if it's not all under his development, I hope that it's mostly because a lot has changed in two years. If we're working on truly two year old or more tech, that would be that would be very interesting. And we need the new smart assistant. Emma, I'm sorry. I turned to ChatGPT's voice mode more than asking my Echo anything beyond what time it is and turn off the lights these days. So we really need to see that improve. Same with me. I don't even have my Echos plugged in any longer just because it's just easier to get it off my phone. Yeah. Snap's specs are augmented reality glasses available for developers now.

18:36but Snap has said that sometime next year, it would like to start marketing them to everyone. They wanna make a smaller, more compact, more functional version. And in preparation for that, Snap just updated SnapOS to make it easier to switch between websites and resize windows. It's also faster and more power efficient. And there's a dedicated lens for browsing Snapchat's short form video platform called Spotlight. You can also now preview photos in the glasses. You don't have to wait to export them. You can scroll through them with hand gestures. This SnapSpecs, another entrant in what I keep calling the year of the smart glasses, 2026.

19:14Robb Dunewood: And from Snap's standpoint, they definitely should continue to go with this. No one has won on this type of headset yet. No one really has. So they have an absolute shot here if they get this right. Yeah, we're going to see everybody trying next year. And it's going to be interesting. And it's going to be fun for consumers to be able to try out all this stuff and pick the winners. spotify announced monday that free users worldwide will be able to pick and play any song search for any song and play it and play songs shared by others on social media these features are called pick and play search and play and share and play and were previously only available on paid plans previously free users could only shuffle songs with limited skips out of spotify 696 million monthly active users, 433 million are free customers.

20:01Yeah, I think this is a another example of the shift toward ad supported content. You know, we've seen Netflix do an ad supported version. We've seen almost all the streamers turn this way. Spotify's had an ad supported version for a long time, but they didn't prioritize it. As they were trying to build trust with the music industry, they were really emphasizing the paid version. And this sounds like they're saying, you know what, we need to bolster user interaction. We need those free users to use it more often. So as we've added things like lossless and AI and stuff to the paid plan, we can loosen up some of these features for the free users.

20:38Robb Dunewood: There's a thing called subscription fatigue and people are subscribing everything and they're kind of getting tired of it. So I think that Spotify is looking at their numbers and saying, you know what, we've probably gotten a good percentage of people who are going to pay us for our services. Let's really start to focus on those who aren't and monetize them. So it's going to be ads. Maybe we can still get some of them to come over and become a paid user, but we need to figure out how can we actually monetize them as a free user. And I think that that's what this is going towards. Qualcomm announced that its new flagship processor will be called the Snapdragon 8 Elite Gen 5.

21:16The Xiaomi 17 series and the Samsung Galaxy S 26 series will use the new chip whenever they come out. We didn't get specs or anything because the Snapdragon Summit is coming up September 23rd. But astute listeners may have noted that the previous version was just the Snapdragon 8 Elite. And so why isn't this the Snapdragon 9 Elite? Or, you know, since we're still in the 8 era, the Snapdragon 8 Elite Gen 2. Why skip right to Gen 5? Well, Qualcomm explained this is the fifth version of snapdragon 8 they had snapdragon 8 gen 1 gen 2 gen 3 and snapdragon 8 elite which they did not call gen 4 but now sort of implied that they should have and that makes snapdragon 8 elite gen 5 the fifth of these snapdragon 8s tom none of this

22:06Robb Dunewood: is all is confusing so long as you don't think about it exactly honestly it's just like why didn't you call it gen four instead of elite oh because they wanted to call it elite and now they're regretting it and whatever it's the fifth if it's the fifth snapdragon 8 and it's the best since they first started as a samsung galaxy user i just want to know that whatever they put in a thing that i buy next year is just really fast and better than what i bought earlier this year as it was faster than the thing that i bought earlier last year and so on and so on and so on Yeah, and we'll find that all out on September 23rd, I expect.

22:43Robb Dunewood: CounterPoint Research released its list of best-selling individual phone models in Q2 this year. Apple has the first three slots with the iPhone 16, 16 Pro Max, and 16 Pro in that order. The mid-range Samsung Galaxy A16 5G and A06 4G pick the next two slots in front of the iPhone 16e. The Galaxy S25 Ultra is in the eighth spot. And the only other phone maker in the top 10 is Xiaomi with the Redmi 14C 4G in ninth place. Yeah, CounterPoint's been releasing things a little differently this time. And they released the premium smartphone stuff showing that Apple was leading there while Samsung is leading in just general phones.

23:23But yeah, now you see why. It's all the flagship phones that are leading for Apple, but it's the mid-range phones that are leading for Samsung. So it really is.

23:33Robb Dunewood: And there's a lot of other mid-range Samsung phones as well that aren't on this list. But because Samsung creates so many of them, they actually eat into their own numbers. Yeah, no, that's a good point. As for iPhone sales now, you may be wondering like, hey, iPhones have been on pre-order since Friday. How's that going? Analyst Ming-Chi Kuo, who looks at shipping times, you know, as the orders come, the shipping time starts to slip. and his own supply chain numbers, which he's a master of interpreting. And he says his signals indicate demand for the new iPhone 17 lineup is strong, with initial orders appearing to beat last year's iPhone 16.

24:13In other words, more people ordering the iPhone 17 than ordered the iPhone 16 in its first week. He also thinks the iPhone 17 Pro Max, the most expensive one, appears to be leading the way, which was true last year as well. The 16 Pro Max led the way. Bloomberg's Austin Carr speculates that one appeal of the iPhone 17 lineup is that it showed solid engineering improvements. You got actual better battery life, better heat dissipation, improved camera features, better performance, and not focusing on AI like they did when they announced the 16. And since we're talking about Apple, the new Apple phone charger is the first to support USB PD 3.2 AVS.

24:52AVS stands for adjustable voltage supply. That means it acts as a 40 watt charger most of the time, but when it can, it will deliver 60 watts only for up to 18 minutes, but it can charge your iPhone 17 faster and it costs you 40 bucks.

25:08Robb Dunewood: Yeah, that's kind of cool. And I think one of the things here when it comes to why we see the numbers going up, people who like us are really into the specs. I think a lot of iPhone users are like, my iPhone's like two, three years old. It's just time to get a new one. So I think what has happened is that we've had a shift from you got a phone every other year to where now it's kind of like every three. So there's a lot of people who had the 14 who just didn't get a 15 or 16. And now, okay, it's three years old. It's got a lot of scratches on it. It's time for me to get something new. And I think that that might be what is happening right now.

25:39Yeah, I think there's something to that. It also puts the light, the pundits keep saying Apple better get better AI or it's not going to be able to compete. And what the customers have been saying constantly is I think AI is overhyped. I don't care as much about AI features. This shows whether it's intentional or not, that that is true and Apple is taking advantage of it. that people are like, yeah, no, I want more battery life, better specs in my camera, better performance. And if you don't have all the AI features yet, that's okay. I still need that new phone because I'm on the 14, like you were saying.

26:18Robb Dunewood: And I don't think people, they really just don't think about AI like a lot of us do. Does it run JGBT? Oh yeah. Okay, cool. I'm good. Does it run Gemini? Oh yeah, cool. I'm good. So it's like as long as it can run what people perceive ai to be i think they're probably not thinking about oh a apple has to have this very specific ai thing that they do because they don't have that right now so it's like you it's not like you had it before you don't have it now let's just use what we have and as long as it's fast and shiny i'm probably happy with it and the perception is that ai is kind of buggy that it doesn't always work very well so so i don't think people prioritize it for that reason.

26:55Robb Dunewood: Penske Media, which operates Rolling Stone, Billboard, Variety, and more, filed a lawsuit against Google for its AI summaries. Penske alleges that Google violates its copyright by using its articles to train the AI overviews function. This follows lawsuits over the AI summaries from education company Sheik and a group of independent publishers in Europe. Penske claimed revenue from affiliate links has fallen by one-third this year because of a drop in traffic from Google, and it cannot block Google from AI summaries, but without blocking all of search. So that's a big part of this too. The lawsuit probably not just about the, you know, the beginning of the AI summaries is like, we need to do something because our business model is fundamentally changing because of these AI summaries.

27:36Yeah, I mean, when you're doing a copyright lawsuit, you have to show infringement, right? And the defense will be a fair use. Google's gonna say like, we're transforming this, we're making a fair use of this to provide people information. And Penske's got to show, you are undermining my commercial availability. That's one way that a fair use as a defense has to not undermine commercial availability of the original copyrighted material. And Penske's going, you are. We're losing a third of our money because you're doing this. You are definitely undermining the marketplace for this. And so that's an essential to that case.

28:10And I think this is interesting too, because instead of just saying, you're using our data to train a model and not being able to show the output, right? That's been one of the problems is, you know, the New York Times in its case can say like, look, we made it output an entire New York Times article, but they had to work really hard. And the judge even called him on that. Like, it doesn't sound like that's something that would normally happen, that you had to work really hard to make that happen. Whereas Penske can say, no, AI summaries is there right now, summarizing, linking to our article, but nobody follows those links.

28:41And so I think it's got a stronger case.

28:43Robb Dunewood: Yeah, it fundamentally changes how people operate with search engines. You don't necessarily need to go to the website to get the information if the AI summary just gives you the information which people were looking for in the first place. So one third of their business is gone because of this. They've got a case that hasn't been thrown out. Yeah. Wired reports that OpenAI has accelerated hiring of scientists with expertise in developing algorithms for controlling robots. They got some great examples. I highly recommend you go read the Wired story to look at all the different kinds of people.

29:15There's people involved in benchmarks, people with a demonstrated academic record of being able to provide smooth motion and object awareness and all that kind of stuff. Wired sources say that OpenAI is recruiting people to work specifically on humanoid robots with either full or partial human forms. And as soon as I read this article, Rob, I'm like, oh, that's what Johnny Ive is working on. Everybody was like, is it gonna be a pin? Is it gonna be a phone? And then they're like, It's definitely not going to be a phone. They're making humanoid robots. I don't know if they're going to be walking around our house or not, but that makes sense to me, that OpenAI would do a moonshot like that and say, we want to deliver iRobot to your house.

29:58Robb Dunewood: I just hope that Johnny Ive doesn't build Skynet. Just don't be Joe Morton from Terminator 2. It always ends up with Skynet for you, Rob. I've noticed that. It always does because humanoid robots, I don't necessarily want Rosie in my kitchen. I just want the robot to just do the thing as effectively as it possibly can without looking like a smaller version of me doing the thing. So, yeah, that's why it's important to have Johnny Ive, right? You want to have this robot make sense in its design because that's going to be huge for acceptance. If it's creepy looking, nobody's going to want it, even if it's great.

30:38and so you want it to be non-threatening and you want it to work. So I am fairly certain based on this Wired article that there's like a 97 % chance that whatever open AI comes out with is going to be a robot of some kind and probably have some humanoid aspect. Maybe it's not fully walking around in your house yet. Maybe it's a kitchen assistant or something like that. I don't know, but it'll be interesting to find out.

31:03Robb Dunewood: If there's anything that we know from Johnny Ive, it will look really, really good at doing whatever it does. I'm imagining it being entirely white because it's Johnny I, but I imagine it'll be better than that. And finally, a couple of important dates. This Wednesday evening, September 17th at 5 p.m., MetConnect kicks off with a keynote from CEO Mark Zuckerberg, and Microsoft is reminding folks that the official end of the public support for Windows 10 is coming October 14th. Extended security updates are available for$30 for home users and$61 per device for enterprise users. You can also receive the updates as a home user if you enable Windows backup to Microsoft's cloud or use Microsoft's Rewards Points program.

31:46All right, folks, what do you want to hear us talk about on the show? You can let us know all kinds of ways, including on our subreddit. Go over there, check them out. There's a bunch of great stories coming from Motang and R.W. Nash and a bunch of folks. Submit your stories and vote on them at reddit.com slash r slash daily tech news show.

32:06Robb Dunewood: Hi, this is Kim and Penn Holderness from the Laugh Lines podcast. This episode is sponsored by Oli, your wellness partner for back to school and beyond. Back to school season is here. Packed backpacks, packed lunches and packed schedules are officially back. Oli Kids Sleep helps little dreamers wind down with a gentle blend of melatonin, L-theanine and botanicals for restful sleep. Translation, an easy way to put those school night negotiations to bed. And for the grown-ups, Ollie's sleep helps you fall asleep, stay asleep, and wake up feeling refreshed. Because as you know, the morning mayhem comes early.

32:42Visit Ollie.com and stock up on back-to-school must-haves today. That's O-L-L-Y dot com.

32:48Robb Dunewood: These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. Ready to experience something new? AllTrails helps you find your next hike. Whether you're looking for something nearby or planning a trip, read reviews from real people like you to choose your trail and know what to expect. You can also download the map in case service gets spotty. Plan and experience your next hike with AllTrails, the app for exploring the outdoors. Download it today and find your outside.

33:30Robb Dunewood: We end every episode of DTNest with some shared wisdom. Today, Kiwi Graham has a concern about Andy Beach's story from last week about versions of audiobooks that are customized to various people and regions. Yeah, I'm betting a lot of people have the same concern Graham has. He wrote, I'm worried about the idea of stories and books that are changed to reflect the circumstances of the reader. I'm thinking this is likely to reinforce the bubble effect by localizing the content. The reader isn't learning different things. That's a good point. It is. I mean, one thing that I thought of later after I talked to Andy about this was they're not saying they would get rid of the other versions.

34:14Let's say I live in Los Angeles. I could still go read the localized version from Berlin if I wanted to. It's not like I'm limited, like, oh, no, you can only have the L.A. version. But to Graham's point, people would still more likely pick something that's localized to them. I guess good stories would still expose you to other things. It would just have localization to make you read more. I don't discount this as a concern, but whenever someone brings it up, I'm always willing to say, like, I don't feel like that bubble effect usually is as bad as we think it's going to be.

34:53Robb Dunewood: At least it hasn't been yet. Translations for most languages is pretty straightforward. You're always going to lose some things in translations, but not much today. It's not like we were doing this 100 years ago. we're doing this in 2025 where AI just is incredibly good at doing these kinds of things. Yeah, no, that's a good point too. So folks, what are you thinking about? We want to know. And if you've got any insights into a story, we want you to let us know. So share it with us at feedback at daily tech news show.com. Big thanks to Kiwi Graham for contributing to today's show. Thank you for being along for daily tech news show.

35:29You keep us in business. If you want us to keep doing this, share it with a friend and maybe get a little value back for the value you get from us by becoming a patron at patreon.com slash DTNS.

35:43Robb Dunewood: The DTNS family of podcasts, helping each other understand. Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this broker.

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