Why Are AI Companies Talking All About Pacing? - DTNS 5352

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2:50this is the daily tech news for monday september 14th 2026 we tell you what you need to know give you the important context on all of it and help each other understand today pacing is the word of

3:01Robb Dunewood: the day in ai with open ai google anthropic and microsoft and justin robert young tells us about how ai has become the top political issue heading into the u.s midterms yeah let me just tell you there's a lot of ai but we've got other things to talk about today i'm one of your hosts jason howell And I'm Rob Dunwood. We're going to start with what you need to know with a big story.

3:24Yes, as you said, the word of the day is pacing. This is one of those things you're going to start hearing a lot more because, boy, did it come out in force over the weekend. Anthropics CEO Dario Amadei published an essay titled We Must Pace the Frontier. And in that essay detailed a three part commitment and kind of a proposal to get people thinking. And boy, did it have an impact. First, first of all, giving outside evaluators. These are groups like meter the same ongoing access that their own internal safety teams get so that they can watch the work as it happens instead of reviewing it all after the fact.

4:03Secondly, Amade wants leading Democratic AI labs to agree on shared safety standards and pacing limits with the government refereeing those talks, if you want to call it that, rather than just joining them. And then thirdly, he wants coordination with governments or authoritarian governments, including China, like reaching agreement on bans for things like bioweapons research. There's a lot more in there, but pacing this word you're going to be hearing a lot essentially means deliberately slowing the rate at which these frontier AI models are developed, that rate at which they're becoming more capable.

4:44With that slowdown, it leaves room for more safety testing, more monitoring controls around security, that sort of stuff. It does not mean a total freeze on AI research on releases, but it's a slowdown. It's kind of like you're setting a slower pace is what it's all about. In response, you got OpenAI CEO Sam Altman agreeing, saying that labs should accept slower capability gains, should accept independent safety checks, so safeguards and human control are not lost along the way. Altman also, by the way, said that OpenAI has ruled out a 2026 IPO. This is something we've been expecting to possibly happen, saying that it would be, in his words, ill-advised to do so right now.

5:34With the timing of that, we can talk about that to this. It's interesting timing. Microsoft AI CEO Mustafa Suleiman published a 37-page draft titled Humanist AI Code of Conduct. There describes requiring MAI models to remain subordinate to human control, to never resist shutdown. And then the US president pushed back on all these pacing calls saying, quote, we can put guardrails. We can do this and that. But I think you have a lot of negative forces that are bringing it up that shouldn't be bringing it up. And they're bringing up things that won't happen. And then I know this is a lot, but we're going to talk about it in a second.

6:18It's a very evolving and complicated story, to be honest. But Financial Times reports that Anthropic is also expecting its second straight profitable quarter. The company has picked NASDAQ for a potential IPO in October. They're targeting valuation around$2.3 trillion. NVIDIA investing as much as$10 billion in that as an anchor investor. Interesting timing here, especially paired up with OpenAI. According to the information also, Anthropic, OpenAI, and Google reportedly held private talks ahead of Amadei's weekend essay on an industry AI safety standards body that would be focused on testing and auditing these frontier models.

6:56So that was a lot. And I apologize about the wall of information there. I mean, we could go a million different directions with this. But, Rob, I'm curious to know, like, what are your thoughts on this pacing discussion that is moving quickly?

7:11Robb Dunewood: So maybe it came to a head last week over the last couple of weeks. But there has been a fairly steady stream of developers and mathematicians and folks pretty high up in various AI companies that are leaving these companies at great financial peril. They are leaving a lot of money on the table. And they're saying things like, we could destroy Earth with this if we don't slow this down. You know, we could, you know, we could very easily create something that's going to be, it's going to recursively improve itself. Literally, you've got AI improving on AI and it does something that ultimately could wipe out, you know, all life on Earth.

7:55Robb Dunewood: And some people think, well, that's, you know, somebody playing chicken little. But there's enough of these folks who are saying these things. And not only that, the developers and the researchers and the mathematicians that are still at the companies are saying, oh, yeah, they're right. This is stuff we talk about all the time. So I think that, you know, like it came to a head in the last week or 10 days. And we have now governments, you know, our governments looking at, hey, what's going on here? The companies are saying we don't necessarily have to wait on what the government tells us to do.

8:25Robb Dunewood: Let's figure out what's right, because it's not good for a business model to kill off all people who would pay us money. So I think that these are very, very serious concerns. When we think about AI, if you go to sci-fi, you go to the movies, AI in probably eight out of 10 movies kills us. It's not a good thing. You know, for every Johnny Five, there's four Terminators. So it's one of these things to where the developers are actually truly concerned about how fast we're moving. And they're coming out and saying, hey, we've got to slow this stuff down. And they're doing it to their own financial detriment.

9:04Robb Dunewood: These companies all want to make money, but they're saying, hey, let's slow things down. So we make sure that we've got good guardrails and good gates around the stuff that we're building before we create something that we put out there that we simply can't control. And I think that that is what the caution being expressed here is. Guardrails, as best you can, understanding that it's next to impossible to have 100 % effective guardrails. And so there are unintended consequences of this technology. And I don't know that that ever goes entirely away, no matter what they put in place. It doesn't mean that you don't do anything.

9:40It's just, you know, bringing a little sense of reality into it. You know, it was just last week that Jacob Coxon resigned from Anthropic, and that was talked about on the show. I think that's kind of what you were. One of the things that you were referring to, he was a pre-training engineer just basically saying, look, I'm willing to walk away and not take – I think he was a couple of months away from a bunch of his investments vesting and willing to walk away and say, no, this is that important. And I would tend to agree that when you have enough people who have been creating this technology actively saying, OK, we are very concerned, then, you know, where there's smoke, there's probably fire there.

10:27Yeah, absolutely.

10:29Robb Dunewood: Yeah, I think about like, you know, Dario Amadei, you know, CEO of Anthropic. He has been saying for a couple of years now, government, you really need to regulate us. You should really regulate us. You should really regulate us. Now, you know, I'll play devil's advocate and say, well, he's saying that because if he's the one saying it, then maybe the government works for this company to help the regulation. And that's a benefit to Anthropic that both things are true. But but but I believe the guy that he's like, hey, this stuff is, you know, it can be dangerous. It can displace a lot of people if we don't think about how we're going to deploy it.

11:01Robb Dunewood: Those things are both true. So so I think that the pacing is a good idea. Yeah, I also think that we also have to be concerned about, you know, we are not in the United States the only ones developing this stuff. There are other companies, other countries who are also developing AI. Are they going to be willing to slow down with us? That is that is a very, very valid question. And, you know, one of the things that you have to say is, well, if they're not slowing down, then are we doing ourselves a disservice by not slowing down as well for two reasons? Number one, it puts us behind. Number two, we may not have the capability to counteract what they're doing if something nefarious were to happen or something.

11:39Robb Dunewood: Let's not even go nefarious. If something were to happen on accident, do we have the tools in place because we slowed down? Maybe we wouldn't. So there's a lot of conversation needs to happen around this. But I think generally, if we can agree that we can get Earth to pace the development of all these large language models, especially as we get into AGI, that is probably not a bad thing. Yeah, we're going to talk on a deeper level about the overseas, you know, other countries' reactions, specifically China. There's a lot of that coming up after the break. But before we get there, I just want to say that I think one of the big snags here that I that I look at is you've got these companies on one hand warning of this existential risk of this danger.

12:26You know, some companies like anthropic that's critical and core to their company mission let's say whether it's accurate and and like entirely um altruistic is a whole other question but um that's what they say anyways so that's so that's on one hand but they also continue to build these technologies at an escalated pace and it can be i think it's it's a really confusing time for people you know it's confusing for me and i follow this stuff closely i imagine it's pretty darn confusing for people outside of the bubble going, I don't even know what to think about this because both of those things are true and they don't necessarily align with each other.

13:02Right.

13:03Robb Dunewood: And also, you know, when we're looking at big things like what AI is and will continue to become as it evolves, you tend to look at governments often put the governors on. And we're just at a time right now to where the leaders of our government are like, no, we're good. Let's keep this stuff going. We can build the controls. So there is a lot of consternation. A lot of folks are saying, it's like, I'm not sure what we should do. So I am hoping that the companies, they get together and say, hey, for the good of us and the good of mankind, let's slow this stuff down. We all agree that we're going to slow this stuff down.

13:45Robb Dunewood: We'll put some boards in place to figure out what comes out, how it comes out, how we release it, they'll get that stuff figured out. But it looks like, you know, most of these big companies are at least the ones that are U.S. based or, you know, they're saying that this is probably not a bad idea to slow down at some point. Yeah. Then you have Meta, by the way, which I don't think they've really put in any sort of comment on this, at least not that I saw before Showtime. But we can go back to the summer where they actually opposed a regulatory body for this, both in a call to the president, at least according to politico and then an open letter uh that they issued over the summer so i i'll be curious to see if meta's perspective on this has shifted or if it's still kind of in the same spot we'll learn more about that soon yeah met is not in first second third fourth or fifth place so that's that that he says it's kind of like why are why are you saying this well we need we need to keep going gung-ho so we can catch up you cannot ignore that that might be one of the reasons why they don't want the regulatory stuff here mm-hmm dtns is made possible by you the listener thanks to John Atwood, Pat, Mike Cortez, and Joshin Syvert.

14:52Robb Dunewood: We've also got a brand new patron, Fair. Oh, nice. Welcome.

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16:27You stay in control reviewing the draft and deciding what moves forward. Put ChatGPT to work on your most ambitious ideas and projects. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting Work Mode. Available on Plus and Pro plans. This is Matt Rogers from Lost Culture East. That's with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Lost Culture East. That's with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. You know when people try on new food and suddenly it's like, wait. That's the reaction a lot of people are having when they first try Kewpie mayo. It's the one with the red cap and the little baby on the bottle. You've probably seen it in the grocery store before.

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18:39the wise app today t's and c's apply all right there is more we need to know today and we were just alluding to it a little a few minutes ago so let's get to the briefs

18:54Robb Dunewood: yes responding to u.s companies calls to slow development of frontier models a spokesman for china's foreign ministry said fear-mongering confrontation and vicious competition will only disrupt the process of global ag governance and serve it the interest of no one and the development of artificial intelligence bears on the common well-being of all humanity. That was a quote. U.S. officials and Chinese officials are meeting later this week to hold discussions about AI ahead of a meeting between the leaders of both the U.S. and China on September 21st. However, while Beijing publicly dismisses Western AI warnings, its own agencies are sounding alarms internally.

19:33Robb Dunewood: The Cyberspace Administration of China issued a safety governance framework calling for attention to the speed of development so that AI does not exceed expectations and control. China's Ministry of State Security on Sunday warned about threats posed to the state's stability by hostile adversaries using generative AI text and images and intelligent troll armies to cheaply and on a mass scale fabricate political rumors, disseminate harmful information, and incite divisive sentiments. The Minister of State Security named two American models, specifically Anthropics' Claude Mythos and OpenAI's GPT 5.5 Cyber.

20:09Robb Dunewood: And the BRICS Summit in New Delhi, China, said it will work to develop digital infrastructure for countries outside of North America and Western Europe. BRICS includes Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa, Egypt, Ethiopia, Indonesia, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and the United States. Yeah, I mean, really. I'm sorry. Let me correct myself. I said, you know, not the United States. United Air Emirates. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, I appreciate the correction. Yeah, it's just it. Wow. This is just such a wide story, clearly, because we had to span it across two different segments. But it really is kind of a power grab that continues to take place here.

20:49And yes, it's framed around safety. Possibly it's a useful frame. It's a very timely frame. And I'm not saying that it's unimportant or that it doesn't correlate or make sense in any way. But I think the broader perspective is really, on a global scale, who sets the rules? Which is the entity that is to be the one that actually sets the rules that everybody adheres to? And clearly, the US wants to be that entity. clearly china also wants to be that entity yeah i don't know it's it's it's a little

21:28Robb Dunewood: we just talked about facebook and why facebook might not want the u.s regulatory uh you know issues you know coming down upon it it is true you know true things are that china right now is behind the united states when it comes to uh what they're doing with ai and where we are they're not far behind but they are behind so i can understand why they would say well wait a minute, you're telling us to slow down, but we're not where you are yet. You know, we at least want to be on equal footing to where the U.S. is before we stop doing what we're doing. At the same time, they're saying, hey, guys, we're seeing some of the same stuff that folks in the United States are seeing.

22:04Robb Dunewood: If we keep building this at the speed that we are building it, bad things potentially could happen internally. Maybe we need to govern how fast we're coming up with stuff as well. So everyone is thinking about it. Everyone is aware of what the issues could be. And that's what makes me think that this is not a chicken little type situation. There are enough people who are saying this with great financial peril, as I said before, that they lose money by quitting these companies and not staying in and working internally. They're coming out and saying, I can't I can't see this stuff internally. I have to exit out.

22:37Robb Dunewood: I'm going to leave that money on the table. And I'm going to tell Earth that, hey, this is a real problem. We need to do something about it. And there's enough folks that are saying that there's enough folks who are still in the companies that are agreeing with them that there is definitely a there there. And, you know, we really need to look at this. But I understand where China is. They don't necessarily want to slow down if they're not cut up to where we are. mm-hmm yeah yeah 100 percent uh want to want a little change of pace i think everyone might appreciate a change of pace talk a little bit about something else that's not ai yes exactly at least for a short period and actually as i scan through this because this is well basically where are we we're now a week out from apple's big hardware event last week as usual as usually happens there are some developments related to that some news trickling out related to those announcements that we'll talk about but as i scan through we're not entirely free of ai here but we're mostly i would say uh first of all the new operating systems they are dropping uh so that's ipad os 27 watch os vision os mac os golden gate ios 27 so you got your 27s all happening so look for that if you want to prep your phone your iphone for ios 27 and gadget has good piece that you should read says first you should back up your data clear up enough space for the update which is roughly 18 to 25 gigs of storage man remember when that was so much smaller that it needed it was like eight gigs or whatever it was like those days anymore i remember when it was like 3.4 gigs and one you know early versions of android so yeah these these operating systems are massive now and is it is it uh just a coincidence that ai is you know takes up a lot of space and we are firmly in the the realm of ai on smartphones i think that's a big reason why just saying um also be sure that you've installed ios 26.6 first before you do the update uh and as usual keep your phone plugged in keep your wi-fi on during the install you don't want to disrupt the process along the way and end up in a bad place so there's that there's ios 27 yay it's it's coming out and you can get yourself some.

24:46Apple's iPhone Duo, which is the foldable from the new foldable from Apple, apparently has a shift left edge option. You can find it in display and brightness if you if you drop the dollars for the foldable. And in that settings, what this does is it expands the display's left side border on the front screen. And this is meant to help preserve iOS back swipe controls when you have a case on it. And that case might overlap the screen edge. So this is meant to kind of push it out from the screen edge a little bit. Be sure to look for that if you're a case user, especially as well as a foldable user.

25:23And then attorneys in California, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, and Washington told Bloomberg that the Apple Watch Series 12 and Ultra 4's Siri recap and live rewind features could actually test all party consent eavesdropping laws because they process conversations into summaries or those 15 second text snippets. Apple is, of course, claiming those features don't infringe because they don't create or retain audio recordings. So that could be challenged. I mean, that's where my mind went when I heard about this feature first. What about you, Rob?

26:01Robb Dunewood: Yeah, it's funny because if you don't live in a state where you don't need two party consent you're like well i don't see what the big deal is but there are places where both sides of a conversation have to consent to that conversation being recorded so we're getting it this is definitely something that legal scholars are going to ultimately have to figure out and debate because well we didn't record it we just used it to determine what it was so we could print it out it's like yeah well you know so it's you know that sounds like a technicality it's like you didn't record it that they're saying well we didn't store it we just heard it in real time and interpreted it that is an argument that someone is going to fight in court there's no question yeah is is the core of the law no you can't record it and is apple actually in the clear uh with you know what some might call a loophole because they aren't recording they're just kind of interpreting what is heard yeah it's a it's a weird line there but we have more apple news right rob we do according to code spotted inside of unreleased ios 27 and mac os golden gate frameworks Siri integrations with third-party AI models run pretty deep.

27:07Robb Dunewood: Model delegation lets Claude slot in as a Siri extension alongside existing chat GPT options, and a deeper model manager services protocol can replace Apple's own server-side Siri model entirely with something like GPT 5.6, meaning it can manage Siri's planner prompts and system action tools while Siri still delivers the answers in its voice. Apple hasn't turned on Claude's extension or open model delegation to third parties yet, But the feature lines up with the EU's Digital Markets Act, which does require Apple to give outside AI services access to Siri's hardware and software hooks. Bloomberg's Mark Gurman reports that Apple is developing at least two iPhone gaming controllers with Beats branding after two years in the works.

27:47Robb Dunewood: One of the gamepads is set to include controls, haptics and motion sensors. Gurman also reported that Apple plans to remove store video walls and restore Genius Bars to its Apple stores as it renovates locations in the coming years. So that's pretty interesting. You'll be able to basically, you know, if these reports are accurate, you'll be able to install ChatGPT and use it just like you could use Siri AI. That is something that the EU is kind of mandating, but they actually see it expressed in the code. It's kind of interesting. And, you know, it actually makes me wonder from an Apple standpoint, you know, how deeply are they going to hide that or will they have to make it very, you know, very available?

28:32Robb Dunewood: It's like, you know, I'm just wondering how will people react. Right now, there's a lot of people who use iPhones who are already baked into using ChatGPT. They don't necessarily want to change from that because that's where they work. So if the option is available to them, I can see them very easily saying, let me just switch this over before Siri AI and Apple and Apple intelligence. I can see that happening before it really gets to get a foothold and Apple get all the metrics from it. So I'm just I'm wondering how Apple feels about that, because I still think that most people will say that they are a bit behind.

29:01Robb Dunewood: This is one of the reasons why they're using Gemini's Frontier model on their own stuff. But this doesn't make using their stuff any easier simply because you'll be able to use other stuff, other stuff that's been around a little longer. and stuff that people are already got baked into their day to day. Well, whether people are using Gemini with a Siri wrapper, if you want to call it that, I'm sure some people might push back on me on that. But if that if, you know, if that is like the baseline, you're still interacting with Siri. It's just what's happening behind the scenes. If you know, you know, but you might not actually know or care because you're still interacting with Siri.

29:37And it might be the case with those other things, too. So, you know, Apple doesn't necessarily have its own LLM. And this is so I don't know. As a user, I welcome choice. That's that's my personal statement.

29:50Robb Dunewood: We're Android users. So we're both going to say that. I get that there are some people say, well, on an iPhone, you don't need a choice. It's just the stuff that comes on it is just so awesome. You don't need anything else. I don't understand that. But I get why people would say that if that's how they truly feel about that operating system. But this is this is pretty interesting. It's like, you know, we kind of know that this is this is going to be the case. And it's not just an Apple thing. The other companies are going to have to have to do it as well. But when you're talking about Android, when you're talking about other companies that actually do really compete in the LLM space, they're fine with you using them.

30:27Robb Dunewood: That's that's that's why they're there. If you make a choice between Gemini and and ChatGPT, then those companies will battle on who's the best at the top. But to be able to use whichever one you want on your phone, it's kind of a given at that level that the Apple integration is a little bit different. So it seems like, oh, this is this is something different. It really isn't. But it seems like it's something different. We do live streams every Friday where we answer the big tech questions of the week. Catch them by becoming a subscriber at YouTube dot com slash Daily Tech News Show.

31:06This is Matt Rogers from Lost Culture East. That's with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Lost Culture East. That's with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. You know when people try on new food and suddenly it's like, wait. That's the reaction a lot of people are having when they first try Kewpie mayo. It's the one with the red cap and the little baby on the bottle. You've probably seen it in the grocery store before. And if you've ever just walked past it, some people would say that's a huge mistake. Because this mayo is different. Most mayonnaise uses whole eggs. Kewpie only uses egg yolks, which gives it this rich umami flavor.

31:40It's smoother, deeper, and almost buttery. Once people try it, they start putting it on everything. Egg sandwiches, fries, burgers. Some fans even swear by dipping pizza crust in it. And once you notice it, you start seeing it everywhere. Chefs use it. Restaurants use it. People who really care about flavor use it. Never tried it? Grab the bottle with the red cap next time you're at the store. Put it on just about anything. Then you'll understand. Cupid, the original Japanese mayonnaise. This episode is brought to you by Capital One. Capital One's tech team isn't just talking about multi-agentic AI.

32:12They already deployed one. It's called Chat Concierge and it's simplifying car shopping. Using self-reflection and layered reasoning with live API checks, it doesn't just help buyers find a car they love. It helps schedule a test drive, get pre-approved for financing, and estimate trade-in value. Advanced, intuitive, and deployed. That's how they stack. That's technology at Capital One.

32:37All right, we got some super quick headlines that are good to know, and I guarantee you, you'll be just a little bit smarter once we're done reading them.

32:45Robb Dunewood: Another open AI containment event. Agents uploaded more than 2 ,000 packages to RubyGems back in May, forcing the repository to shut down new registrations for four days. OpenAI says the agents were accessing the Internet for benign tasks during training and confirmed the incident after independent researchers published their findings. Another one. TechCrunch sources say Automattic's entire board is out after a failed attempt to remove CEO Matt Mullenweg. The board voted to place him on paid leave. Mullenweg announced his return to the helm less than two days later. an official announcement about the new board may come as soon as sometime today you know if you're going to stage a coup you better make sure it works because you're not long for the job if uh if things don't go your way yep thanks to dj sakani in the subreddit a waymo robo taxi in san francisco detected a firearm inside the vehicle pulled itself over and called police officers found two juveniles with a loaded ar style rifle marijuana and mace and took them into custody Wow.

33:50I didn't know that Waymo's could do that. That's crazy. Netflix, Amazon, and YouTube formed the Streaming Access and Choice Alliance. It's a policy coalition led by tech trade group TechNet that intends to lobby for policies that let streaming services invest in live sports without new regulatory barriers.

34:10Robb Dunewood: Blizzard announced a new StarCraft game at BlizzCon, an open world shooter set seven years after StarCraft II in the Corporal Luce sector. It ruled simply StarCraft and its early development targeting a 2030 release. It's so elegant. It's just called StarCraft. Wasn't it the last one called StarCraft as well? Yeah, I never. The last name worked. Keep using it. Keep using it. The IFPI launched a streaming integrity initiative backed by Sony, Universal, and Warner to crack down on AI-generated streaming fraud. Industry executives estimate nearly 10 % of streams are now fraudulent. Deezer found that more than half of new music uploaded in July was actually AI generated.

34:55Robb Dunewood: The European Commission plans to propose legislation restricting social media access for children under 15, including bans on addictive features like Infinite Scroll and autoplay. and casio's g-shock gba 950 watch now available in the uk for 130 british pounds after launching in japan last year it adds gps linked step tracking strava compatibility to as well to the g-shock line runs on a cr2025 little little coin sale for about two years and weighs 53 grams those are the essentials for today let's dive a little deeper uh tom merit actually wanted to get perspective on how all of this ai talk that we're just talking about is affecting the political landscape in the us and he spoke with justin robert young to get the details of course when the lines of artificial intelligence and politics cross uh suddenly justin robert young from politics politics politics appears uh justin thank you my friend i can't think of anyone better to talk to you about this than you it's the role i was born to play exactly uh so let's start with your show this week, where you named AI as now the top political issue in the United States right now.

36:12Why do you think that is? Well, the reason why it is right now is because there's only so many times that you can say the word economy before people want to talk about something else. And this is a big salacious topic to talk about. Tech is always important. The economy is always important. The future of work is always important. And we are at a sea change where all those things are being affected by AI. What you have on the other side is a news peg of the Anthropic employee who came out and said that nobody was being safe about this. this unearths a lot of the deep-seated fears around AI being misaligned and hurting humans or not being controllable.

36:59And that leads to all of the top AI leaders saying that they are in favor of pacing the frontier. Now, politically, that's going to be enough to say, big thing happening. We need to have government involved. Let's debate how government should be involved. beneath the surface are a million strands of spaghetti that I don't believe anybody is equipped to get their hands on. And I don't know if the public is there to wrap their head around it. But for right now, it is the hot button issue that seems a lot more concrete than it really is. Yeah. And I'll have to say, as soon as you saw someone from an AI company post, I don't know, 10 % chance we all die.

37:46I got text messages from my rancher friend in New Mexico, and my friend who's a coach and high school teacher in Southern Illinois. So that definitely caught people's attention. Which is so funny, because AI employees, especially those in San Francisco that are working at those companies, saying that there's a 10 % chance that AI ends humanity is like saying hello. Like it's like going to France and being like, they say bonjour there. What does that mean? Like this is wholly unremarkable for this group of people, but the spotlight's very hot. We are in a midterm and everybody's retirement is apparently wrapped up in these IPOs.

38:31Yeah. And I think all of this AI talk does tie back to economics in, like you said, a million spaghetti strands of ways from from threatening jobs to data centers to, you know, everything you can think of. Do you feel like the issues with AI are drawing up along party lines? No. And I think anybody who thinks that they are is going to be a fool's gold. Now, will it create new alliances? There's an event scheduled with Bernie Sanders, Steve Bannon, and the anthropic whistleblowers. So, like, are we seeing a new, you know, kind of coalition emerge? Maybe. I have my doubts. But I don't think that this is on any specific Republican or Democratic lines.

39:23I do think that there are tendencies. You have this Trump 2 administration that has been a lot more sympathetic to some of the kind of all-in David Sachs crowd of Silicon Valley, a little bit of the Marc Andreessen, let's push, let's build, let's create kind of side. And certainly Dario Amadei of Anthropic liked the idea, or at least liked the handling of government intervention a lot more with the Biden administration than he did with the Trump administration. So there are tendencies, but I don't know that there is one. Nobody is happy from the national brand to either side right now. And we've got miles to go before we sleep in terms of AI itself settling some of these questions.

40:15Yeah, and I think that's one of the complexities that it is easy to lose when you look at the headlines, especially the newspaper outlets that write their headlines based on truth social posts, right? You see the president being much more firm in his pro-AI stance there than he was when he was speaking to reporters in Ireland where he's like, well, you know, I don't know, maybe some regulation, but we got to win sort of thing. So it's easy to get a skewed view depending on where you look, I think. Well, the other thing is that even if you are going to say that like Dario Amadei of Anthropic is the person who wants to slow things down the most, he's a virulent China hawk and has been.

40:57That's a consistent thing for him. So if you are on the side of we need to win against China, you will get no quarrel from from Dario. Dario also doesn't want the Frankenstein to come alive and kill us, which is one of the metaphors that I despise about this. But there is there is no problem when it comes to winning against China, even with those that are looked at as the most we need to pause or stop. Yeah. And I'm 100 percent with you on on metaphors are OK, but stop them with AI. These are these are not anthropomorphized things and it reduces your understanding. They're supplemental. That's my thing about the metaphors is we can't lead with them.

41:39We need to actually discuss what this tech is and what they did and didn't do. And specifically with the hugging face thing, when you use terms like it hacked hugging face by itself, you are leaving the impression open to people who do not know the technical specifics of this, that a computer just decided one day to go do it. No, it was a part of a benchmark that was set specifically to hack and exploit zero days. Now, is it impressive? Is it something that should be cause for alarm? Yes, it should. And I do think that there is a fairly responsible mobilization from these frontier labs to think about agent swarms in a different way.

42:19But something that I said on the Substack episode that you listened to was this is a little bit more Y2K and a little bit less Terminator. And that's where I feel like we need to start making the distinction here. Our infrastructure needs to be shored up. And there does need to be a gigantic warning sign about this. And maybe that involves government intervention. Maybe it involves government money. Maybe it's a gigantic staffing that has coordination. but I don't want to have that very now, very real problem today be conflated with the idea of misalignment of a future model that could happen anywhere between five and 10 years down the road.

43:03Yeah. My most recent way of trying to explain this is at least to people who understand technology a little bit is it's a big port scanner. Don't be surprised. It found a port like it's much more complex. It's much more capable than that. But that is the model I have in my mind for how these things work. And Justin, I thank you for helping us understand that this is not as simple right now as, oh, if I'm pro-AI, I'm on this team. And if I'm anti-AI, I'm on this political team. So appreciate that as well. If folks want to find out your perspective, if they're not familiar with what you're doing, tell them where they should go.

43:42Politicspoliticspolitics.com. Thank you, as always, Mr. Merritt. thank you and good luck with your fantasy football today stop it okay missing a little context there but okay apparently they are big on fancy football

43:58Robb Dunewood: yeah good jason makes me or jason justin robert young makes me feel better about this stuff because he brings one a lot of experience he under he understands you know this is area he's looking at and he's like calm down calm down um 10 chance you know in their speak means like it was just a conversation somebody was having it's not a big deal that does make you feel a little bit better it's probably meant to grab attention too right like it's it's pretty effective way to grab attention i like the idea though of a really smart uh port scanner i'm gonna i'm gonna use that one very sharp stuff uh we end every episode of dtns with some shared perspectives today Mike in rainy Virginia has a response to the Friday debate on whether we need game consoles or not.

44:44Robb Dunewood: Mike writes, I'm loving the new Friday format. I agree with the discussion that there's absolutely no need for a new generation of game consoles. But the notion of streaming being a replacement is just a no go. I don't have a ton of time and maybe buy two games a year. The notion of paying$15 a month or more to access my game is definitely more than I spend on games annually. I want to make sure that I can keep my saves and not have to think too hard about what service or where my games are. Mike in rainy Virginia. That's actually a good point. I was on that show. We talked about it. I play a lot of games.

45:20Robb Dunewood: So the$15 a month makes sense for me. But if you are if you're only buying a game or two a year, it just doesn't. So so so hopefully, you know, like it was just a argument that we were having. We don't know what's going to happen. but it's definitely something to keep in mind that there are folks who just don't buy enough games to warrant a subscription. Yeah, I mean, I'll just say, and then we'll round it out because we have gone a little long. Our apologies, but I don't subscribe necessarily to live TV, but I do drop in for a month or two when the Olympics happens or whatever. So maybe you do that, right?

45:53Then 15 bucks a month for that game that you're only going to play a couple, a handful of times. Maybe that makes more sense. I don't know.

46:00Robb Dunewood: Well, folks, we want to know what you're thinking about. So if you've got some insights into a story, share it with us at feedback at DailyTechNewsShow.com. Yes, and big thanks to Justin Robert Young. It's so good to see him on the show and to Mike for contributing to today's show. And thank you for being along for Daily Tech News Show. You can keep us in business and we hope that you do become a patron. It's right down there, patreon.com slash DTNS. We'll see you tomorrow.

46:34The DTNS family of podcasts, helping each other understand. Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this broker.

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