Why Google Won’t Lose Chrome, and It Doesn’t Matter - DTNS 5096

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2:38Sarah Lane: Today, Bodhi Grimm tells us what LMR batteries are and why they're coming to your next EV. And we break down the judge's decision not to require Google to sell Chrome. and why it really doesn't matter just yet. Yeah, yeah. It's sort of a Pyrrhic victory, I guess, in a way. Anyway, I'm Todd Merritt. And I'm Sarah Lane. Let's start with what you need to know with the big story. All right, so I know everybody needs to understand this, but in the end, we're going to have to wait for anything to happen. But let's just go with what happened. U.S. District Judge Amit P. Mehta, and it's with an H, even though it's Mehta, issued an order in the U.S.

3:20antitrust case against Google over its domination of search advertising. And I always like to separate this from the other antitrust because there's two of them out there. There is one case about ad exchanges that is expected to get its final order later this month. So it shouldn't be long. But this is the one about Google abusing its market position in search ads. The judge already found that Google abused its market position in search ads. That was a year ago that that decision was made. This is about what remedies the judge will require in order to correct for that abuse. Google will not have to sell Chrome.

3:59Sarah, you remember like every headline was like, Ooh, Google has been asked to sell Chrome, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah.

4:04Sarah Lane: Companies stepping up being like, we'll buy it. Yeah, that's right. They will not have to divest themselves of Android. The judge felt those remedies were a poor fit for this case. Also said that the Department of Justice did not prove why less extreme remedies wouldn't be enough to restore competition. Because remember, the remedy trial is all about like, how do we restore competition to the marketplace? Judge Mehta wrote that, quote, the court is highly skeptical that a chrome divestiture would not come at the expense of substantial product degradation and a loss of consumer welfare. Wow. So Judge is like, you know what?

4:43Sarah Lane: Google needs to run Chrome. Chrome goes somewhere else and it goes sideways. Well, he even said it's not even easy to separate, which is true. It's so wound into things that it would not be easy to separate. And he wasn't saying it couldn't happen. He was just saying that seems too extreme. Google will also still be allowed to pay partners, so it can still pay Mozilla and Samsung and Apple, for preloading or placement of search and AI products. The judge found that if he were to prevent that, if he's like, if Google can't even pay for product placement, that would harm the phone and browser makers more than Google, because Google would get to keep all that money it would have to spend otherwise, and the recipients would be left without vital income, especially Mozilla.

5:29He wrote that such a decision might lead to, quote, fewer products and less product innovation from Apple. I don't know about you, Sarah, but I kind of feel like that wouldn't be the case. But, you know, whatever.

5:42Sarah Lane: It feels like the judge is like, Google, too big to fail. Yeah. However, the judge said he's prepared to revisit a payment ban if competition is not substantially restored through remedies the court does impose. So he left open for a future suit if it looks like there is still abuse. He did not think this was ideal to let Google keep paying for placement, but acknowledged that the landscape has changed since the case was first brought and wrote that, quote, companies already are in a better position, both financially and technologically, to compete with Google than any traditional search company has been in decades, except perhaps Microsoft, sort of acknowledging Bing is out there.

6:21But man, we got ChatGPT. We got Claude. We got perplexity. everybody's coming for Google. And he added, there are strong reasons not to jolt the system and to allow market forces to do the work.

6:34Sarah Lane: Well, I'm sure Google is very pleased with this. I can imagine that other companies having to, you know, getting Google's money to get placement also are like, yeah, you know what, let's just keep it how it is. But it doesn't, I don't know that this helps competition at all, I feel like it more just keeps things as they are. Yeah, yeah. Well, so far, that is fair, right? Because he also didn't accept the DOJ's request that companies present users with a choice screen for their search engine when they set up a device, writing that precedent requires courts to avoid remedies that compel product design requirements.

7:16And in any event, choice screens have not been shown to enhance competition. The judge is basically saying, uh, AI is probably going to be a problem for Google. So there is more competition than there was when this case was first brought in 2020. And, uh, the court shouldn't be designing screens for people, which it's a very technologically forward judge, I would think. All right.

7:39Sarah Lane: Poor Google, you know, just, just trying to keep up in this new AI world of ours. All right. So what does Google have to do? You're like, okay, so it doesn't have to do all that. it may not make exclusive deals. So it can't say, all right, we want Google search on your product and you can't have any other search engines. It can't make exclusive deals for browsers. So if Chrome is carried, they can't require them to keep Firefox off. No exclusive deals for Gemini. They can't do anything that would prevent the distribution of rival products. It also can't require the use of those products if a company wants to carry the Google Play Store, which they have done in the past they don't do it anymore but they have said if you want the google play store on your android phone then you have to only use chrome and gmail etc they can't do any of that uh the court also ordered it to share search index data uh and some user interaction data uh not ads data but but user data and search data with rivals to help them compete better so qualified competitors can buy a one-time snapshot of data at marginal cost that's basically like They can't make money off it.

8:48They can charge whatever it costs to provide that data to engineers, whatever, so that the competitors can identify and crawl more web pages with valuable content and do so more efficiently.

8:59Sarah Lane: Now, real quick, what's a qualified competitor? Basically, I didn't look into the 230-page decision to figure out how it's defined. I'm sure it's defined well in there. But the idea is - Yeah, like if I make a browser tomorrow, it's like, I'm probably not in the pool. Yeah, you and I can't just call up Google like, hey, we'd like your search data. They're like, are you a search engine? Like, no, you have to actually be a search engine. This was a request from the Department of Justice, but the judge only authorized a subset of the data that the DOJ requested to be shared. And the DOJ wanted it to be periodically refreshed.

9:34The judge said just once. You make the snapshot of data, put it out there. You don't have to refresh it again. So over time, it's going to get less useful. meta also partially granted the doj's request to force google to syndicate search this one's a little more interesting uh but allowed google to price it above marginal cost so they can make money off of the syndication and the requirement only lasts five years the doj had asked for that to happen for 10 but yeah duck duck go could sign up for this if they can afford it uh and google has to be reasonable but they can't make a little money off it and then put google search results in right next to their other search results.

10:12Sarah Lane: And that would be advantageous to another browser, search company, whatever, to be like, yeah, we're just as good as Google. Because we literally have their search results. In effect, the judge accepted all of Google's recommendations for Remedy. Google had made very few. They said, you don't need to do much. And the judge said, great, we're going to do everything you suggested. And we're going to do part of the U.S. Department of Justices. So not Chrome, not Android divestment, but those things about data sharing and search syndication that we talked about. Now, there are some overlaps. Google had suggested certain remedies like data sharing that the DOJ had also suggested, but they worded them differently.

10:54So this is a weird technical legal bit of this. The judge ordered the two companies to reconcile those. It's not as dramatic as it sounds. It's not like you two go in a room and agree. It's more like, oh, you said it would be seven days to deliver this, and you said 10 days. Figure out which one it is. Eight and a half. Yeah, exactly. Let's make sure it's all the same thing, and then submit that by September 10th, and the judge will then look over that, approve it, and that is when the final order for the remedy happens. After that, the order becomes final, and that's why you didn't see Google say they were going to appeal today.

11:32They're waiting for that to actually be filed. Once it's filed, then they can say, we're going to appeal this entire thing. They're not just going to appeal the remedies. They're going to appeal the decision that they broke antitrust laws. But it can't do that until the final order is done. So for now, Google's VP of Regulatory Affairs, Leanne Mulholland, wrote that the company has, quote, concerns about how these requirements will impact our users and their privacy. And we're reviewing the decision closely. it's also possible the DOJ could appeal the remedy decision. And so Google might want to wait and see if they do that first and string this out a little longer.

12:11DOJ antitrust chief Gail Slater said, we will continue to review the opinion to consider the department's options and next steps regarding seeking additional relief.

12:20Sarah Lane: Gosh, I mean, I think many people who hear this outcomes say, Google really a very light slap on the wrist? I mean, why even appeal? Feels pretty good for Google. But again, when you're a company that has as much money as Google has for legal fees, you want to be in the best position possible. And so you will appeal. You'll appeal whatever you can and drag that out as long as you can so that your market share ends up in the black. If for no other reason than to stop them having to make any changes, right? Because the idea is you appeal the entire decision, then you ask the court to issue a stay on the remedy to say, well, we shouldn't have to implement this remedy until we've proven whether we really violated antitrust or not.

13:08And courts usually do that, which means that nothing happens until the appeal is heard. And that can take a couple of years. And this all gets kicked down the road again. And as you saw, Judge Mehta was already saying in the five years since this case was filed, the landscape of competition has changed. So I'm going to be a little easier than I would have in 2020 because you've got more competition, Google. You've got people at your heels, which is why you're right. A lot of a lot of consumer advocacy groups are looking at this as a slap on the wrist because they wanted the heavy handed, maybe not Chrome and Android divestment.

13:45I think some even thought that was a little bit excessive, but stopping Google from paying for placement at all. And all this has done is say, Google, you can't require people to exclude competitors when you make a deal. You can pay for preferable placement, but you can't keep everybody else off the platform.

14:03Sarah Lane: It's also, I was about to say it's funny. I don't know if I would call it funny, but the idea that direct competitors say, well, actually, we want Google's money. So yes, we're competing and we want to beat you eventually, but we need you now. Yeah. Well, and it's true. Apple may or may not really want to be a competitor of Google and Apple would be fine without Google's money. Don't get me wrong. They got plenty of cash, but it's a good amount of cash and Apple would have to figure out how to make that up somewhere else. They'd rather not. Mozilla might not exist if they didn't get Google money.

14:40That is a big percentage of the income that they get. And so that would be devastating to a company like Mozilla. And I thought it was good that the judge actually recognized that. If Google gets to keep a bunch of cash if they're not allowed to pay for placement and then use that to increase their market position while Mozilla dies, that's not good for competition. I agree with him on that.

15:03Sarah Lane: Well, DTNS is made possible by all of you listening right now. Thanks to Tony Glass, Philip Less, and Howard Yermich. Yay! This episode is sponsored by Morning Brew Daily. If you're anything like me, you want to stay informed about what's happening in business and finance, but you also don't have an hour every morning to sift through headlines. Morning Brew Daily is the go-to business news podcast for millions of people. It's a daily business news podcast that's a quick, fun, and easy way to start your day. Whether it's the latest in tech, markets, or the trends shaping the economy, the show breaks it all down in a way that's clear, engaging, and actually enjoyable to listen to.

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16:23Sarah Lane: And we're ready to show you that business news doesn't have to be boring. So join us on Morning Brew Daily, available wherever you get your podcasts. This episode is brought to you by Capital One. Capital One's tech team isn't just talking about multi-agentic AI. They already deployed one. It's called Chat Concierge and it's simplifying car shopping. Using self-reflection and layered reasoning with live API checks, it doesn't just help buyers find a car they love. It helps schedule a test drive, get pre-approved for financing, and estimate trade-in value. Advanced, intuitive, and deployed. That's how they stack.

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18:03There's more we need to know today. Let's get to the briefs.

18:06Sarah Lane: All right. The Ether Tech Conference is happening in Berlin, so we have a lot of product announcements. e-ink tablet maker Remarkable announced the Remarkable Paper Pro Move. It's a much smaller 7.3-inch version of Remarkable's Color e-ink note-taking device, the Paper Pro. Paper Pro Move is available now for$449 with a standard stylus and no case. if you want the marker pro that's the stylist that has the cool eraser can be added for 50 dollars and cases range from anywhere from 69 to 139 dollars would you you have a remarkable you have one of the bigger size i've got the remarkable two um which is i mean this is 10.1 uh inches um and i've i've i've got the stylus with the with the cool eraser the remarkable two is not color though.

18:56Sarah Lane: So this is, this is a few years ago. In fact, we did live with it when I first got it. So I think it was, I don't know, 2021 or so. I, you know, I don't know. Kindles didn't used to have color either. So the color e-ink life that we live in now makes it hard for me to, to, to, uh, to not want that for myself. But what the, the paper pro move has going for it is it's small. I mean, you can palm it even if you have small hands. So if you're on the go and you're taking notes and you're a person who really wants to physically take notes, you know, instead of typing them, I can see why this would make sense.

19:37Sarah Lane: I will also say the remarkable too, and I don't have the pro it, this is not heavy. It's, I mean, it, it takes up some space. Certainly if you're, if you're, if you're on the go quite a bit, but, um, for some people that really does matter. And if you have the equivalent of a small piece of paper that you want to type a bunch of stuff on, then yeah, this makes sense. It's expensive, but the remarkable line of products have always been fascinating to me because they aren't really connected to the internet much. there there is some connectivity you've got an app you can you know you can run an app on a desktop you can you can share files you know through one drive or google drive uh and i think dropbox as well is supported but it's designed to really be kind of offline it's for that person who needs to sketch out a new idea offline you can you can you can get to it somewhere else but it's not designed to like surf the web.

20:44Sarah Lane: None of that stuff. Yeah. It's like, I guess the new one's like a reporter's notebook. The original is like a notebook and this is just like a smaller, like a steno. Exactly. That's a, that's a good, that's a good comparison. Acer announced a lot of new products at IFA. The one you may see the most headlines about is the Swift air 16 because it has a magnesium aluminum alloy. So the weight drops on that 16 inch laptop to 2.18 pounds coming to Europe Europe and the Middle East and Asia in November with prices starting at 999 euros. Also a Chromebook Plus Spin 514. This is a convertible laptop, but it has MediaTek's Companion Ultra 910 processor, which lets it do AI processing on a light and affordable computer.

21:29It's also power efficient, so it's got really good battery life starting at$699 available in October. And probably getting less attention is the Acer Veriton GN100 workstation, which comes with NVIDIA's GB10 Blackwell, the Grace Blackwell super chip with up to one petaflops. So you can run powerful models locally. Like this is for a researcher in AI and it starts at$3 ,999. So, you know, more expensive than people pay for home desktops, but not crazy.

22:01Sarah Lane: Gosh, one petaflop. Can you imagine? Just right there on your desktop. It was not that long ago that I was like, what's a petaflop? Really? Yeah. I think the one that's most interesting to me is the one from Acer. A 16-inch laptop. I know they used to be – well, I had a 17-inch MacBook at one point, which was huge and heavy. It was. It was cool. It was huge and heavy. And so something slightly smaller than this, but a lot lighter. I mean, for somebody who's like, I want screen real estate, but I just don't want my shoulders to go, that one's kind of cool. And it feels pretty competitively priced at 999 euros.

22:48Yeah, not crazy and lighter than any Apple MacBook you can get, at least for now.

22:53Sarah Lane: Yeah. Yeah. Google also announced an event for October 1st with the words, Gemini is coming to Google Home. What does it mean? And a picture of what looks like a Nest Cam. So Google announced last month that Gemini for Home would replace Google Assistant. I would assume we're going to get more of an update on that. And I don't know, maybe new products as well. Yeah, probably. This is one of the least subtle invites. It's like, what could they... Oh, I know exactly. Gemini is coming to Google Home, Tom. That's what it means. But what does it mean? Is there AI involved? And what about Google Home?

23:32One trend out of Vifa seems to be gigantic speakers. Did you see these?

23:36Sarah Lane: Yeah. And I don't know. I guess somebody coming back from Burning Man would be like, oh man, if I only had this a week ago. Samsung announced its latest sound tower models, the ST50F and the ST40F. They look like rollable luggage and one of them actually rolls, but they are mostly made of speaker. The ST50F has wheels and a telescopic handle, 18-hour battery life. The ST40F has a handle, but no wheels. They both have standard wide stadium and outdoor settings, so you can match it to wherever you are. They're available now for $700 for the one with wheels,$500 for the other one. And JBL said, hold my beer.

24:16Well, I dance and announced its party box 720, which has 15 hours of battery life, a replaceable battery, two XLR ports. If you want to hook up your guitar or karaoke, this thing, uh, and a light show that syncs to music starting at$1 ,099 shipping September 21st.

24:34Sarah Lane: Now this is easy to just be like, who, I mean, who's partying this much? I want you to email us feedback at daily technology.com. But listen, if you do, I don't know, weddings, right? If you have a regular DJ gig, there are lots of folks who would be like, actually, this is awesome. Just roll this right on in. Yeah, this is great for me because I'm taking a bunch of expensive and heavy gear on the go. It makes sense. This is for a niche market. Life of the party. The life of the party niche. Yeah, maybe you just have a really big backyard and you want people to have a good time. Or you roll up to everyone else's parties with it.

25:15Sarah Lane: Right. Yeah. I brought the speaker. A couple other IFA product releases to note. Garmin announced the 27-day battery life Fenix 8 Pro rugged smartwatch with satellite and cellular connectivity. So you can send and receive text messages. You can share your location. You can make and receive voice calls and leave a 20-second voice messages from almost anywhere on the planet. So again, if you're somebody who likes to travel, this could be interesting for you. Starts at$1 ,200, available September 8th. Finland's Polar announced a fitness band called the Polar Loop that tracks activity, sleep, and health metrics without a subscription.

25:56Sarah Lane: So that puts it aside from some competitors in that capacity. It's available for pre-order for$199 and ships September 10th. All right, let's move to some non-IFA news. OpenAI made some moves to fill out its new app team. If you remember, Instacart CEO Fiji Simo moved over to OpenAI to run apps. OpenAI bought an A-B testing company called Statsig. That company's CEO, Vijay Raji, will become OpenAI's CTO of apps, so running product engineering for ChatGPT and Codex, which is its cursor-like product. That moves engineering head Srinivas Nureyanan to become OpenAI's CTO of B2B apps for companies and government use.

26:39And then OpenAI's chief product officer, which you might be wondering, what's Kevin Weil going to do now? Well, Kevin Weil becomes VP of AI for Science and his product team will, of course, report to Fiji SEMO.

26:50Sarah Lane: It must be nice to work for OpenAI, which is just, at this point, it's like, we're going to get new heads of everything, but you still have a job because we are expanding. Yeah, you still have a job is the key there, right? Cloudflare said it recently blocked the largest volumetric distributed denial of service or ddos attack yet recorded cloudflare says the attacks peaked at 5.1 billion packets per second and 11.5 terabits per second the company announced a previous record attack of 7.3 terabits per second back on june 20th so we are on the up and up yeah these are these are happening more and more uh sk heinix and asml announced they have assembled the world's first twin scan nxe 5200b high na euv lithography system i'll explain why that is important if you don't recognize that uh they did it at sk hynix's fab in incheon south korea the system speeds up chip making and enables sub two nanometer nodes not the first thing that can do that but an important one and it leaps sk hynix ahead of Micron and Samsung.

28:02It will initially be used to fast track prototyping, but eventually it's going to mass produce DRAM.

28:07Sarah Lane: The IDC estimates that Chinese robotic vacuum makers accounted for 54.1 % of shipments in Q1 this year. You might say, well, what are all those companies? What about Roomba? Roomba maker iRobot fell from the leading spot in the world to fifth place, But it was a good run, iRobot. It was a good run. A long, slow run, bumping into chairs. We're actually going to review. We haven't decided exactly the model unit yet, but we're going to review one of the newer robot vacuums for Live With It coming up soon. So if anybody has ideas on what model you think we should go for, let us know. Those are the essentials for today.

28:53Let's dive a little deeper.

28:55Sarah Lane: GM, Ford, Tesla, and others are working on the next generation of EV battery tech, lithium manganese rich or LMR batteries, now with more manganese. So what is that? Bodhi Grimm, join Tom to explain. Bodhi, welcome back. Good to have you, man. Thanks, Tom. Appreciate it. All right. Let's talk about one of the harder words to say in the English language, manganese. How do you say that? Is that right? Yeah, you got it right. Okay, good. Tell us about this. What's going on with LMR batteries? So LMR batteries are still in development, but they're in our near future. They provide higher density, which means higher range.

29:40More energy density means more range. Lower production costs, and which means possibly cheaper cars and they rely on less cobalt and nickel which is better for the environment okay is that because you're because they still have lithium in them is it because you're using less lithium is that why no you're using less cobalt and nickel so the the it's really you really there's a lot okay there's this there's an organization called lead the charge If you want to know more about this, go check out what they do. But digging nickel out of the ground is very dirty. And same with cobalt. But cobalt adds the problematic parts of it because of human rights violations and indigenous people's land rights being trampled on and that kind of thing.

30:27So if we can take that stuff out of the battery, we're going to have a better battery for the environment, but we're also going to have, you know, just kind of a better overall dignity for people battery. Yeah, yeah. No, that makes sense. And then you said something about these being cheaper to produce. Is that going to mean my car will be cheaper? No, you know, cars like the Cadillac Lyric is, it's just, it's going to cost what it's going to cost. But it does mean that these companies like Ford and GM and Tesla can potentially produce lower end cars, not to say low end, but lower end cars that have a better range.

31:08Now, is this going to be at the bottom? No. LFP batteries are much cheaper and easier to produce, you know, but it's going to sit somewhere between the nickel manganese cobalt batteries, which are in the higher end vehicles, and the LFP batteries, which are lithium iron phosphate. Those usually go in the lower end vehicles. Yeah. So how do LMR compare to these other technologies so like your typical nickel manganese cobalt battery has 85 nickel 10 manganese and 5 cobalt um the lmr batteries flip that it's 65 percent manganese 35 nickel and virtually no cobalt and then the lf lfp batteries they don't have any nickel or cobalt so it's not a good comparison.

31:59All right. So you get better range. They're cheaper to produce, which could mean you get better range out of some cheaper models of cars. Why don't we see these everywhere? What are the challenges that are impeding or slowing down LMR adoption? So we're still pretty early on in this chemistry. So they have some problems that they're trying to solve right now, like voltage attenuation, which basically means they lose voltage over time, which you can imagine if you invested tens of thousands of dollars in a car and that happened, you'd be pretty upset. So they're overcoming this, at least GM and LG Energy, they're overcoming this by using coatings and dopants on the cathode.

32:40And this stabilizes the structure to improve longevity. Now, do you want me to go into, I think dopants and coatings are really interesting. Do you want me to go into that? Well, what are they, first of all? Okay, so using a doping is a tiny amount of some other material that's not typically found in the battery chemistry to solve a specific problem. So if you want to get longer range, you can add X in. But if you want faster charging, you can add Y in. And then we can add a sprinkle of Z to get reduced battery wear over time. Analogous to an alloy where you're using two different metals and you get different properties from the metal because of that?

33:22Is it kind of like that? Yeah. Basically, there's a hole in the chemistry and they're filling it with a dopant. Ah, okay. And then that makes the chemistry act different because they filled the hole. Think back to your high school chemistry, folks, and valences. That'll kind of make sense. So, okay. The thing to know about a dopant is that's an additive to the chemistry that can make it work in a way you want, but there's trade-offs to it. What about the coating? What does that do? So instead of mixing something in with the battery chemistry itself, you're adding a protective layer so that it's not affecting, in this case, the cathode.

34:05So this is the best way I've come up with this analogy. like doping is like adding msg to your food it mixes in and enhances how everything tastes okay a coating is like adding ketchup it sits on top it changes how things feel or taste in your mouth but it's it's not it's not mixed in with the food yeah yeah i mean people who mix ketchup into things are going to immediately have a problem with this but you know most people just spread ketchup on stuff so if you think of it that way i think it works really well uh what are some of the other technical hurdles so oxygen release can cause damage in the battery structure oxygen is obviously an oxidizer that causes problems electrolyte instability at high voltages surface cracking during charging cycles again they're using coatings and and dopants to prevent like oxygen loss and stabilize voltage and that kind of thing um there's some particle engineering that they're doing to handle the expansion and stress which i didn't fully understand but i thought was was an interesting thing but you know we're we're still a little bit away they're going to start manufacturing cells in 2027 and gm says you'll see them in 2028 okay i would not expect to see these in any um concentrated form until 2030 got it uh besides gm who else is working on this uh ford tesla i'm sure big battery makers like catl and samsung and panasonic i'm sure they're all got their own flavor of this as well all right well something to to be ready for in in five years or or so uh but if you see those ranges shoot up look and see maybe there's an lmr battery underneath bode thanks for helping to us understand this.

35:58I really appreciate it. Thanks, Tom. Appreciate it. If people want to keep up on this sort of thing, because you report on it all the time, where should they go? So I have a podcast called Kilowatt, and we cover all sorts of things. We cover the earnings calls, we cover battery chemistry, renewable energy, EVs, and it's basically a news show, an informational show. So if you want to learn more about it, go to 918digital.com. Thanks, Bodhi. Thanks, Tom. Hey, folks, we do live streams. If you want to chat with us while we're recording, come watch. We are available at youtube.com slash daily tech news show.

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37:58Sarah Lane: We end every episode of DTNS with some shared wisdom. Today, TC has a trick for people who might want to appear as if they're in the same household as someone else, even if they're not. For whatever reason, no judgment. Yeah, TC wrote, well, I guess he gave it away. Regarding YouTube cracking down on the family plan, listeners in need may want to check out TailScale Mesh VPN. It creates a virtual LAN, like I used to do with Hamachi to play StarCraft with my friends, even when we weren't at a LAN party. But for use with YouTube, one device can advertise itself as an exit. If the exit is at your family home, all users can turn on that exit in their tail scale client and surf as if they were in your home.

38:47Or beat their parent in StarCraft. Up to you. the free plan supports up to 100 devices from a many year supporter TC thank you TC that's a great tip if you want to mess with tail scale which is a great product to be able to get around

39:02Sarah Lane: some of these restrictions yeah I mean I know there are depending on how much you use YouTube there are plenty of people who are like oh this screws me up real bad yeah because we're not in the same house. And it's not even like, oh, we're trying to stick it to Google. It's just people live and work and run around in all sorts of different places. A family is not always in the same room. Yeah. Yeah. I know this personally and maybe need to install details. I also do know this personally. So yes, your mileage may vary, but Tom and I will definitely be doing some research here. What are you thinking about?

39:47Sarah Lane: Are you on a family plan of some kind? Do you have some insight into any of the stories that we talked about today? Share it with us. Feedback at DailyTechNewsShow.com. Big thanks to Bodie Grimm and TC for contributing to today's show. Thank you for being along for Daily Tech News Show. You can keep us in business. Become a patron. You can do it right now. It's super easy. Patreon.com slash DTNS. Talk to you soon.

40:14The DTNS family of podcasts. Helping each other understand. Diamond Club hopes you have enjoyed this program. The Daily Tech News for Wednesday, September 20th. September 21st. Okay, let's start that over. Here we go.

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